HYDROGEN by "WE THE PEOPLE"
ram...@cdp.uucp
Raleigh Myers
RA ENERGY FDN.
RE: "WE THE PEOPLE" developing "OUR" own energy policy, the reasons are
obvious.
This posting is to discuss "OUR" willingness to design, accept and demand
modern renewable solar energy on a global scale.
The clue is that Earth itself is doing it still : attemting to support
ALL LIFE (as per universe design) using Solar energy. What else do you do
in a SOLAR system?
Hydrogen: the universe is literally made out of it = minimum entropy.
KISS-TECH = keep it simple stupid.
With an almost benign clone of earth solution to the energy need rather
than merchant nurtured energy desire it is criminal to continue to allow
the revolving door political business dictate to ruin the planet in "OUR"
name.
To legitimize citizen leadership and to dispel the mesmerization of
supply side hype "WE" need to get together as advocates, fellow renewable
energy people, trusted scientists, and concerned citizens. Enlightened
writers and journalists should assist in the cross pollenization of the
citizen committee activities on need based solutions rather than their
usual focus and glorification of the manipulative hype of the merchant
politicians. "ALL the world's a stage, and ALL the men and women merely
players:" Which play is preferred "As "YOU" like it" or "Creeps in the
Sitcom of Grunch"?**
The opportunity at hand is to start a brain storming session and
data base on energy by "WE THE PEOPLE". If this were done by the
environmental community on all the networks and publications around the
world simultaneously "WE" have the ability to really make it happen,
after all it is our planet and the consequence of the success of "OUR"
ability to diminish supply side control effects all the fauna and flora
to follow.("WE" will be graded by our children)
A world class inner space program with the same energy and goal
seriousness of the moon shot.
Many solutions are arrived at through the think tank process of
studying problems based upon no prejudices, undisciplined
conversations(postings) and asking for continuous ideas from all who
participate: none is to be objected; none is to be omitted ; all is to be
assimilated ; all is to be studied carefully. Then in the think
tank's follow up meetings, ideas are formulated, products are conceived
and production and distribution plans are made.
This is the method developed during world war two to develop the aircraft
and other never seen before equipment needed to get the job done. This
attitude adjustment exercise was responsible for the greatest delivery of
technology in the world before or since. Most of the bright ideas came
from the thousands of the people on the floor of the plants UP not
management down. This put the whole project on "THE BEST WAY TO DO IT
BASIS" rather than profit and in many cases the cost. The mind set of
these people was that the whole world depended on the success of the
exercise. The leadership of the world screwed up and they had to create
the tools and then the machinery to straighten things out. This licence
for free thought was lost in debriefing after the war when every body was
expected to go back to top down rule (centrally planned) by the supply
side. "WE" really need to Question authority!!!! Leadership has screwed
up and "WE" have to fix it. Read responses 1 and 2 of this posting for
details and some ammo. Many of you will have seen or realized some of
these thoughts in bits and peaces but not necessarily assembled as a
stream of conciousness. This is the information you need to explain it to
others The play is the thing.
NOTE: Enough manure has gone through the supply side spreader for most to
realize "WE" have been had. Now it is "OUR" chance to brainstorm our way
out of this artificial insemination of the mind.(Neurolinguistic
programing =Madison avenue mantras "tiger in the tank" "real fuel for
real cars")You are a citizen of the planet not defined by your
position on the treadmill.Your job category, age, education level doesn't
necessarily determine your effectiveness in a creative situation. Many of
the most useful things of every day life came from the minds of just
plain folk sparked by the degree of need and a little rage, in other
words by people without degrees in those particular subjects, the degrees
came years after the inventions.( The generalist vs.tunnelvision)
The bottom up rather than egghead down research has worked in the Danish
windmill industry, their machines are superior to our egghead produced
rigs. ( Article in the A.W.E.A. news )
When posting don't sweat the small stuff or hesitate to post for
fear of intimidation. With this licence and the power of attitude
adjustment it doesn't matter if there are a few mistakes in spelling or a
few math glitches ,the idea is the thing. The attempt to kill the idea by
persecuting the giver are the cheap tactics typical in political
campaigns and of the status quo who have managed to destroy the planet
with perfect spelling, distort the deficits and rationalize the price at
the pump with the mathegic of the shell game. Understandably the only
tactic left for the other side is an attempt to intimidate especially
when they are caught with a smoking planet in their hand.
For details two thin books on fat cats and what save the planet really
means:
The World Order (The Hegemony of Parasitism) by Eustace Mullins
A former member of the federal reserve (Parasitism = supply side)
The Grunch of Giants by Buckminster Fuller (GRoss UNiversal Cash
Heist) They both back each other up.
Citizen comities are the chosen instruments to unravel the manipulations
of the supply side. We need to establish our own fact base and proceed
with the findings. This has to happen on a grass roots level and
cautiously independent of the present system, by public mandate. As it
states in the Green Peace energy statement:
"Energy experts with a supply-oriented bias -- and that includes
most of them -- are no more likely to build energy-efficient
societies than tobacco executives are to make people stop
smoking. Energy policy is simply too important to be left to
such experts. We need full and open public debate of all our
energy options, including a wide range of demand-side options;
henceforth we must insist on having such debate. Likewise, we
require impartial and symmetrical criteria for choosing among our
various energy options; such choices and the criteria on which
they are based must also be open to public scrutiny."
Some insight to what needs to be done like more of these articles:
An article in the Scientific American was cautiously optimistic as if
they didn't want to upset their meal ticket from the carbon
mercantile,the energy experts point of view. As someone pointed out in
posting it contained a lot of ammunition.
Altho my postings were created from notes some of which were 20
yrs. old I managed to use the article as an up to date yard stick on the
latest gluttony.40 barrels of oil equivalent of energy a year per capita
in the U.S., 4.6 gallons of fuel oil equivalent a day for each of us.4-
500,000 BTU before conversion. Read the following postings to see how it
relates to solar and what "YOU" "WE" "US" can do about it.. .
An article in Popular Mechanics on Hydrogen was encouraging and quite
positive even to the point that the car that they spotlighted was the #1
Yupmobile a BMW converted to Hydrogen.
This technology is available right now by Mercedes Benz.
Our answer: The metallic hydride method of storing room temperature
H2 is suitable for 80% of automotive use which is under 100 mile trips.
Both mediums stressed that it was mainly lack of popular acceptance and
support that was holding up technology change, so if that is their
excuse "WE" can fix that by simply voting it in. (public mandate)
The other interesting point was the delivery of solar produced Hydrogen
to the end user first . Both articles admit directly or indirectly that
delivering the H2 to the end user was more efficient than electricity
I volunteered 20 years ago to be an appropriate technology advocate
and collect these thoughts, then waited for the right time in history and
place to post it, so you can read it in 20 minutes.Take it down to disk
so you can share it with those who don't have Hydrogen or a computer.
These postings represent a path of logic needed to overcome the fertlizer
presented by the energy structure and the puppet governments.
Response 1:How to start an Inner Space Program by "WE THE PEOPLE"
A discussion about what is missing in the implementation of
solar renewables, public support with follow through. Start a
brainstorming session, data base on switching to renewables and who would
produce electricity and Hydrogen on their own property Do it our selves
there is little chance of it happening by it self. 7 pages
Response 2:
What it would take to convert the country to solar with
concentrator collectors, to demonstrate that it could of been done years
ago even centuries, what it would cost, and some interesting numbers
crunching.(results of a research project not funded by the supply side)
If the figures were off by 200% it would be just a year or two
of fossil fuel expense to free us of the FF boondoggle. 7 pages
Response 3: Energy by "WE THE PEOPLE"
Now your turn. A few people to take some of the chores and reporting
in.
Answers: to who, what, where, when, and how starts an outline and as
"WE" progress; thread the postings in order of subject and category,
poll the dialogue, and get the results out to as many outlets we can
conjure.
This can happen in many conferences around the world,a group of groups.
Post this on other networks put it in publications, treat it as a
skeleton of an idea that will get the forum rolling.
By using the computer networks it creates an archive of what
"WE THE PEOPLE" can do right out in the open not behind closed doors. So
do it for Christ's sake Buddah's Mohammed's Abraham's etc.or yourself, so
the whole world can prophet.
Raleigh
RA ENERGY FOUNDATION
Compulsory Disclaimer rights reserved
including all but not excluding opinions, typos, glitches, syntax,
translations and interpretations.
It is a shame that we need to make legal disclaimers in a voluntary
sharing of information for change medium to protect ourselves against the
intimidations of the supply side camp who are unfortunately committed to
perpetuating THEIR errors and tactics and those of the status quo.(the
already seduced)
"Thank you o Lord for forgiving me my little joke on thee
and I will forgive you your great big one on me."
Will the real God please stand up and cast the first flame?
ram...@cdp.uucp
Raleigh Myers
RA ENERGY FDN.
THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY
Ban on smoking,an alternate energy plan.
The burning of hydrocarbons is as detrimental to the health of the
planet in general as smoking tobacco is to people.It took a concerted
effort to gain some freedom from the invasion of the tobacco merchants
(pushers) and their relentless seduction campaigns. There is still a long
way to go. However smoking the tobacco drug kills 500,000 people a year,
an equal amount of deaths for alcohol and proscription drugs, and 4-5000
deaths for social drugs. Using carbon based fuel is an addiction that is
killing the whole planet. The second hand smoke that is greenhousing the
planet affects everybody everywhere not just those who pollute.
Weigh the planned scarcities the political maneuvering, the
artificially created need and cost of the military to protect the trade
routs and now for a war to save the cash cow of the providers so that 30%
of the population and a fraction of one percent(stock holders) who profit
from the carbon trade can ruin the planet. This shows a shallow
collective morality to allow a minority of militarily astute to upset
the life style of the world population. There is another way. Campaign ,
Vote, research,and produce "renewables". Bring back the seriousness of
the 70's.
Much has been said about alternate liquid fuels. This is just a way
of perpetuating the distribution system owned by the world cartel.
Alcohol(carbon based) is still polluting both in it's
use and manufacture. It takes, land to grow corn and sugar cane and
forests(co2 absorbers) to strip, which could be used
for food and living space. People around the world cry out for help for
starvation relief while we burn food to satisfy the greed of the
supply siders who continue to lobby for our addiction to fluid powered
transport. How many people on earth were enslaved to grow sugar cane and
how much productive land has already been committed to conspicuous
consumption? The fertilizer used to grow it and the fuel used to plant,
tend ,harvest, process, along with the topsoil degradation and transport
may exceed the net gain. Over and above surplus and waste recycling agi-
fuel products are just another extravagant global snafu in the making and
bound to cause an uprising of the have-nots on a scale nobody is prepared
to envision, negative ecological morality (SINFUEL). Over 80% of the
nitrous oxide pollution on a global level is produced by chemical
fertilizer for the animal grains and human food now produced, adding the
extra POLLUTION for agi-fuel is a slap in the face to the planet. "WE"
don't need another planned scarcity exercise doomed at inception due to
entropy. An example of square peg in a round hole centrally planned
boondoggles are Nuclear power plants and dams. They use more energy to
build them, mine and process the fuel than their net production, and we
don't even have a clue to what it will cost to dismantle and dispose of
them after their 30 yr use. Large Hydro projects silt up in 30-50 years
displace populations, and leave a legacy of ecological disaster.
Synthetic fuels (designer fuels) are mostly carbon based and produce
extra pollution in the processing and little pollution abatement in their use, a definite negative to eco- morality. They also require mining,
large land outlays further upsetting populations, and mostly the use of
non renewable commodities.(entropy) The system still remains in the
hands of the present suppliers and distributors with cartel-government
disadvantages.
"WE" have to finance the research and the alteration and manufacture
of the machinery to produce and burn most of the alternative fuels so
why not demand the lowest common denominator right now and do it once.
The strategy in the space program,was "make it work". A million problems
were solved including HYDROGEN for the fuel. There were idiots attached
to every exercise saying it couldn't be done.including car companies, oil
companies and special interest groups not wanting competing technologies
(they didn't own or couldn't manipulate) popularized. Just duck the
slings and arrows of outraged supply siders and "Do the right thing"
Hydrogen has the lowest environmental impact of any fuel system
short of conservation itself and by popular support and demand can be in
the hands of the users and not taxed. Most agree that Hydrogen is the
ultimate for combustible fuel but fall short of doing anything about it.
NOW is the time to brainstorm it to happen.
Hydrogen made with renewable solar technology can be started as a
modular system immediately, by the interested parties. The cost of
replacing the fossil fuel part of the system is less than the cost of
a year's supply of fossil fuel.
This is our money upwards of $200 + a barrel equivalent retail with
military, the cost of pollution,and some of the taxes.( $2 trillion a
year for the U.S. alone) This amounts to the national debt, the S&L rip-
off,organized crime,and the junk bond rip off every year. Much of this
expense is caused directly and indirectly by the use of oil.The national
debt for the military to protect it,much of the wind fall profits bought
tax free treasury bonds at more than 12% along with those 15% broker
certificates of deposit (The $100,000 government guaranteed accts.)
of the S.L.s in the early 80's. SDPP (socialized debt privatized profit)
(In some cases the money was lent to wildcaters to find more oil at a
loss, to the bank = taxpayer.(ho!ho!ho! Santa Clause)) Let's investigate!
The U.S.'s 5% of the population uses approximately 40% of the worlds fossil fuel with the pollution and disruption costs to the planet.
Much more than half of this figure is waste because of multiple sales of
fuel instead of cogeneration and the efficient use of the of energy.
ie.electricity from fossil fuel to heat, loads such as light
bulbs(mostly heat),space,water, process heat,refrigeration, and air
conditioning. If the fuel was delivered to the end user for heat uses it
would be three times as efficient,and if electricity was produced as a
by product... bingo.
This is already being done by the Swiss.(An example of public mandate)
NOTE:"WE" have been hyped to focus on the wholesale figure of $40 a
barrel for oil concealing the profit, taxes, and subsidies.
42 gallons /barrel X $5/gallon = $210 a barrel the European price.
$200 a barrel for oil equivalent energy is an arbitrary figure
representing a portion of the total retail cost of energy with tax.
"WE" pay double for entropy by burning at the well head, depreciation allowances to the producers the planned scarcities, waste,spills,etc....
Triple if the banking scandals and the national debt are factored in.
There is no reliable estimate of what it will cost to clean up the mess
left by our fossil fuel and nuclear boondoggle nor the human suffering
caused by the combustion. How much is a trashed planet worth?
The Scientific American article on energy in the September 1990
issue shows us to use 40 barrels of oil per year equivalent($ 8000 at
$200 a barrel) per person or 10 billion barrels ($2 trillion ) of oil
equivalent of energy collectively in the U.S.each year. This amounts to
4.6 gallons ($23 a day at $5 a gallon already in Europe) of oil
equivalent per day per person or 4-500,000 BTU /day. Due to the
mismanagement of energy over half of the fossil fuel energy is wasted.
How do "we"explain that to non smokers many who are starving due to
climate change?
A BTU is the energy required to raise the temperature of one pound of
water one degree Fahrenheit. The sun can do the same thing directly.
100 sq.ft.solar device X 300 BTU/hr/sq. ft. X 10 hrs.usable sunshine a
day = 300,000 BTU/day which amounts to a couple of gallons of fuel oil
a day before conversion losses.
BTU CONTENT OF FUELS
Energy Type Unit of Measure BTU/unit approx.
Electricity Kilowatt-hours 3,412 BTU/KWH
Gasoline Gallon 125,000 BTU/Gallon
Fuel Oil Gallon 140,000 BTU/Gallon
Hardwoods Cord =4ft X 4ft X 8ft 24,000,000 BTU/Cord
Softwoods Cord 15,000,000 BTU/Cord
Propane Gallon @* 90,000 BTU/GALLON
Natural Gas Therms or 100 ft3 @* 100,000 BTU/Therm
Propane Cu ft @* 2,500 BTU/CU FT
Natural Gas Cu ft @* Methane @ 1,000 BTU/CU FT
Hydrogen Cu ft @ 325 BTU/CU FT *****
Sunshine Square Foot* Approx. 300 BTU/Hour
Solar constant Square Foot 428 BTU/Hour
Solar constant Square Foot @ 127.7WATTS/SQ FT/HR
*The average solar energy reaching the continental United
States per square foot per hour has been estimated at 298.9449
BTU. (University of Maryland, 1972).
@*Hand book of compressed gasses, Compressed Gas Association 1966
@ Energy average reaching the outer planet/sq ft , NASA
***** Hydrogen has less BTU but it ignites faster, combines with any
amt.of oxygen with no pollution, and when deployed intelligently we need
less of it . Getting rid of carbon fuels is the goal of the people of the
planet "WE" can make it work regardless of the sneaker commercial type
hype.
100 sq.ft.X 300 BTU/hr X 10 hrs.usable sunshine = 300,000 BTU/day
If the BTU energy from a 100sq.ft solar device is put to the task
directly the efficiency is higher in most cases than the 2 gallons of
fuel it represents after conversion losses.This is the peace benefit $10
a day per person. Most combustion equipment is less than 25% efficient.
This falls dramatically if the pre combustion activities and pollution
are figured in. (The lucky old sun just rolls around heaven all day)
"The system" can be started with the end users(our money 2 trillion
dollars a year) in solidarity, people,towns,cities, countries who want
to dedicate land to solar farms for solar collectors, windmills,micro-
hydro,loaf time on already existing hydro projects, tidal,geothermal,and
the full portfolio of preferably light footprint solar renewables capable
of producing electric power.
The Electricity is used directly,stored or is used to produce
Hydrogen by the electrolysis of water.( the technology is simple,Hydrogen
is produced in your car battery and is wasted )It is also less dangerous
than gasoline because it floats up and disappears where gasoline and
other fuels puddle and accumulate. Energy people have put
considerable emphasis on trying to make Hydrogen a dirty word, because
there is no way to create planned scarcities with something they don't own,
water and solar as the resource.
The Hydrogen gas is used as solar storage, preferably for local use,
the surplus is shared by the already existing gas grid. ( already
existing pipes,transport and distribution and especially rights of way
which will also serve for waste and bio gas and microwave electric by
wave guide distribution) .
This delivered and stored Hydrogen is then burned by the end
user(participating consumer) in home or workplace in an electric
generator (right now technology is off the shelf electric generators
later a Stirling, ceramic Wankel,or energy cell saving the exhaust heat
and the water )instead of a boiler,furnace or stove. This allows the end
user to share,store or profit by the sale of electricity (the Buffalo
decision consumers solar electric idea waiting for the takers) to a
neighborhood or local grid with the benefit of the heat of combustion. In
other words ship the Hydrogen to those with existing gas pipes and
bottles who also need the heat and they produce the electricity
for those who don't.( I am preparing a source list for the feasibility
study in later postings.)
Doing two things at once at least doubles the efficiency of fuel use
and cuts it's impact by reducing the amount of fuel to be transported,the
ilitary ,the land destruction, and the general pattern of
entrolions of vehicles in the
present transportation fleet to cut ths really the way to go.[ A hybrid gossamer(light weight
composiion? Now it is your turn.
The artists who donated their talentsmokers] and use only the non polluting
alternative) One citizable of financing and
producing renewable energy on their own larted using them and the lobbied licence barrier disappeared.
"Hr so) in a back
yard which breaks down the big numbers of H2 any almost
any one for as little as $1.50 a sq. ft. for the mater to talk the idea up ,letters to
the editors, take polls, find lar, wind, tidal etc.to maximize the cogen
potential..The more ine type of code and account nos. (for privacy not banking).
5units at $10,000 a unit would cost 10 trillion dollars to feed aning swimmer would you throw a lifesaver to a
starving planet??e died three days later.Where are those politicians,artists,poet or dream you can, begin it.
BOLDNESS has genius, power and magic in it.' - Goethe
ram...@cdp.uucp
Raleigh Myers
RA ENERGY FDN.
'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.
BOLDNESS has genius, power and magic in it.' - Goethe
Since the early 70's I was involved in both photo voltaic and thermal
solar . The photovoltaic work was in plasmionic deposition(thin film) of
silicon with Gallium . This still is in research and if it is
successful it will be the big breakthrough.
However it takes more land in photo voltaics to do the same work
that a hybrid concentrator collector farm will do. For under developed
countries it would mean they would be tied to the manufacturing nations
instead of choosing a technology they could manage themselves. A
concentrator collector can provide direct power to many tasks such as
pumping, air pressure, process heat etc. without factory made electric
motors. A hybrid solar concentrator has a multiple function absorber,hot
water, oil to steam, and multi spectrum high efficiency photovoltaics
that require concentrated heat ,bimetallic electric,heat source
orms,not just electricity.
This makes the concentrator a first contender for large operations and further justifies the land appropriation.
In the mid 70's th RA ENERGY FOUNDATION was assembled as an
informal and nonaligned (not beholding to the supply side ) think tank
to find the answers to the realities of life support.
Our effort was to factor to the lowest common denominator some of
the appropriate technologies that were perhaps passed over by more
profitable ways of doing things and finding a way to reintroduce them.
A rigid substrate off axis focusing trough concentrator collector
that could be produced by almost any civilization past or present and was
modular is one of the things we chose to present. Not because we thought
it was the only way to solve todays problem but something that could have
been done years ago instead of the Edison-Morgan mess we ended up with.
There is a surplus of most of the materials we chose.
Off axis(the absorber at the bottom of the unit rather than in the
middle of the curve) because it doesn't shade the mirror,this is because
of the bulk of the multipurpose absorber and to accommodate a hyperbolic
curve which needs very little tracking . Rigid because of the ease of
simple mold type fabrication and durability.
Starting at the beginning the ancients gave us polished and metal
faced stone functioning as concentrators capable of melting
things and starting fires.To duplicate and add a few new touches from the
interim we mold made (poured) a 100 sun concentrator collector out of
ferro concrete with mylar coated aluminum foil as the mirror surface,and
an absorber from 1in. non galvanized steel pipe the kind used for gas or
water pipe available anywhere the world around. We calculated the angle,
created a template from the computer generated curve, made a concrete
mold and fabricated multiple copies 8ft. by 2ft. 1-2in. thick that are
joined to form troughs to whatever length and facing the equator.
To keep the exercise authentic (so anybody could do it )we hand
mixed small batches of sand peastone and portland cement enough for 1
8ft.* 2ft. section. We poured 6 sections to make 96 sq. ft. 10 meters for
the sake of universality.
1 cu.yd. = 27 cu.ft. almost a cu.meter of concrete
10- 94lb. sacks portland cement (Strong mix + fudge) 50.00
16ft. 1 in. black pipe $1/lineal ft. 16.00
100 sq.ft mylar coated aluminum foil 5mil 25.00
32sq.ft.aluminum 12mil. for absorber shield 32.00
misc. nuts,bolts, rods, steel,sand aggregate etc. 150.00
. Total all retail $273.00
However, in bulk(ship loads) ,cement powder is $1 a sack, pipe and the
misc. at least half and recycled materials even less.
Total if done on a community level $150 for approx.100 sq.ft.is $1.50 per
sq. ft. cost of materials bought in bulk and some recycled. Labor is
simply sweat equity or the going wage. This is a unit that will capture
about 300,000 BTU a day, enough energy (2 gallons fuel oil equivalent a
day ) for one household if some common sense is applied which is
addressed later in the posting.
BTU CONTENT OF FUELS
Energy Type Unit of Measure BTU/unit approx.
Electricity Kilowatt-hours 3,412 BTU/KWH
Gasoline Gallon 125,000 BTU/Gallon
Fuel Oil Gallon 140,000 BTU/Gallon
Hardwoods Cord =4ft X 4ft X 8ft 24,000,000 BTU/Cord
Softwoods Cord 15,000,000 BTU/Cord
Propane Gallon @* 90,000 BTU/GALLON
Natural Gas Therms or 100 ft3 @* 100,000 BTU/Therm
Propane Cu ft @* 2,500 BTU/CU FT
Natural Gas Cu ft @* Methane @ 1,000 BTU/CU FT
Hydrogen Cu ft @ 325 BTU/CU FT *****
Sunshine Square Foot* Approx. 300 BTU/Hour
Solar constant Square Foot 428 BTU/Hour
Solar constant Square Foot @ 127.7WATTS/SQ FT/HR
*The average solar energy reaching the continental United
States per square foot per hour has been estimated at 298.9449
BTU. (University of Maryland, 1972).
@*Hand book of compressed gasses, Compressed Gas Association 1966
@ Energy average reaching the outer planet/sq ft , NASA
***** Hydrogen has less BTU but it ignites faster, combines with any
amt.of oxygen with no pollution, and when deployed intelligently we need
less of it. It is efficient in gas to electric fuel cells. Getting rid of
carbon fuels should be the goal of the people of the planet "WE" can make
it work regardless of the sneaker commercial type intimidating hype .
To understand this on a national level and how it relates to our
solar budget.2000 sq.miles is one unit (100sq. ft.) per person in the
United States approx.
20,000 sq. ft of collector per acre X $1.50sq. ft. $30.000 mat./acre
# of rows vary by latitude and terrain due to shading)
640 acres per sq.mile $19,200,000mat./sq.mi.
2000 sq.mi $38,400,000,000 material
If we built our own systems at wholesale prices for materials
this would be the bottom line at.$1.50 per sq.ft.. A few days of oil.
This replaces the fossil fuel use side of the system and most of the
resource use. The electric to gas side costs is less as the project gets
larger. Converting nukes to solar, fossil fuel polluters,converting
regular diesel and gasoline generators to steam makes use of already
manufactured machinery. A lawnmower engine converted to steam
with a automotive alternator can serve as a home or farm electric system.
A Stirling reciprocating generator with 2 or 3 moving part is a simple
system that can be produced in any country and it works right on the
absorber of the concentrator.This same KISS-TECH works on the end user side stationary and mobile.
There are various small steam turbines such as those sold in the whole
earth catalogue and elsewhere. The hybrid absorber of the concentrator
can have a Stirling hot head ,IR photovoltaics ,BI metallic electric,
reciprocating steam conversions ,Refrigeration cycle engines, ranging
from the cost of conversion of recycled units $100 for a
home unit(lawnmower motor) to a larger unit such as a converted gasoline
welder to steam for an acre solar farm costing a few hundred dollars for
the motor generator and $2000+ for tanks, electrodes and pressure pumps
for Hydrogen.
Groups of people in different locations interested in
pioneering and building their own systems from scratch and then teaching
others to do the same would geometrically spread the technology and get
millions of people contributing to the hybridization of the concept. A
large contingency of experimenters crosstalking can configure the
ultimate system in a short time,a global think tank.In the past people
only did this kind of thing during a war.(like right now)
When groups of solar farmers network,the real stuff will come out.
Millions of people have not had a forum for their stored up ideas for
years, it will parallel the Danish windmill and the WW2 effort Also you
don't have the Govt. interference and delays that goods for sale do,
this is for personal use. What works so spread it around just like
during the war. "WE" have to make it work They won't.
The prohibitive costs of solar energy devices and accessories
reflects in the traditional method of producing things.
All the research done behind closed doors the patents to protect the
investors and so called inventors, the portion for bankers,the burden
charges for engineering,manufacturers profit, dealership with salesmen
profits, and of course the tax. To profit from this exercise do it
yourself. Now your ideas?
NOTE: "WE" have been hyped to focus on the wholesale figure of $40 a
barrel for oil concealing entropy, the profit, taxes, damage,
depreciation allowances, and subsidies.
40 barrels of oil equivalent energy per person per year in the U.S.
is the estimate in the Scientific American Article in the September
issue.
NOTE:42 gallons /barrel X $5/gallon = $210 a barrel the European price.
$200 a barrel for oil equivalent energy is an arbitrary figure
representing a portion of the total retail cost of energy with tax.
There is no reliable estimate of what it will cost to clean up the mess
left by our fossil fuel and nuclear boondoggle nor the human suffering
caused by the combustion. How much is a trashed planet worth?
This is to give you an idea of the volume of the supplies needed for
getting rid of fossil fuel. Other materials can be used but are more
expensive and harder to use,besides we have a surplus of cement!
1 cu. yd concrete for a unit(100 sq. ft.)
200 cu.yds concrete(sand and aggregate added) per acre
128,000 cu.yds. concrete per sq. mile.
256,000,000cu.yds.concrete for 2000 sq.mi.of concentrator collector
This is approx. 120,000,000 tons of concrete powder a one time use which
represents the surplus U.S. capacity for 3-4 years ( Surplus is the
unused capacity of the U.S. cement industry of 40 million tons a year
(Pit & Quarry/April 87)
Steel for pipe and rerod(screen and wire) is a small fraction of
normal yearly use of steel in the U.S.. And we can use scrap.
Aluminum supply for the mirror is a few months of recycled beer cans.
1-2 cans per sq. ft. approx..
When we justify the energy to manufacture the concrete powder and
misc. materials to produce the collector and the tonnage moved it
pays back with the energy to just mine, move,and process fire fuels in a
year or two without the endless dependence on them.Then include
the clean up after and the billions of dollars military expense(the peace
dividend) it takes to keep the haves from the have-nots and the tonnage
moved for that fiasco..See MADHOUSING dev.humansettle available on econet
When we justify the cost to build this type of device it amortizes
with longevity,the rigid substrate whether in concrete ,fired
clay,foam,pressed paper or resin composites will out last most structures
on earth making the exercise a one time capital expenditure for many
generations to benefit. Their weight holds them down in high wind and is
a protection against upset from animals. IR and high efficiency
photovoltaics need concentrated sun and heat. The best way to get the
most out of the land is by utilizing all the heat from the concentrator
for storage, process heat, desalinization, refrigeration etc., solar
steam to electric plus the photovoltaics using the oven effect of the
compound absorber.
The gallium arsenide multy layer photo cell breakthrough is 31%
efficient and requires a concentrator collector.20% in the field
( Science News 8/20/88)
The wear,operating costs,and maintenance amounts to less
than the taxation on the present energy system.This still doesn't include
the cost of the wear and tear to the environment,medical expense due to
stress and disease from the burning and the refining and mining of co2
based fuels.
To justify the land use for the solar system we become aware of land
used for our present system of surrogate energy supply.Start with the
thousands of sq.miles of land ruined by coalfields and storage, the
thousands of sq.miles of oil lease land kept from living area, thousands
of sq. miles of land ruined topside and water tables and aquifers lost
for posterity. This amounts to hundreds of thousands of sq. miles of land
on shore and off shore,and thousands more sq.miles if we try to become
self sufficient on agi-fuel and syn-fuel.
For the sake of convivial tooling let us call the basic 10 meter
100sq.ft.concentrator A UNIT or ONE HOUSE POWER
Sufficient energy to power a house with some conservation, passive
techniques deployed,with some energy logic.
2,000sq. miles gives almost a unit of housepower per citizen of the U.S.
256,000,000 units. $150-$500 a person a one time expense.
Theoretically the equivalent of 2 gallons of fuel a day before conversion
for every man woman and child in the country.
At $5 a sq ft.($500 a unit for 256 million people) it would cost $118
billion dollars possibly including the generators.
At $10 a sq. ft.($1000 a unit for 256 million people) it would cost $236
billion dollars possibly 1/2 the Hydrogen system.(1/2 the S&L ripoff).
If we figured another $1000 per person for retrofitting a portion of the
transportation and housing stock to operate on a solar Hydrogen budget
(the other 1/2 of the system)it would be a little over $500 billion
dollars 1/4 of a year of the carbon fuel energy budget in the U.S..
At $2,000 a person(10,000) per household) for the unit and the retrofit =
the S&L give away which is just for the simple protection of usury and
n. Don't say we can't afford it because we
spend that kind of mn is for those who choose to purchase,for transportation
or ca.mi. is an area the size of Rhode Island (Colorado 60K Texas
26 aluminum foil,low impact.
It replaces the polluting barbecue. the
surface =a ton of air conditioning(1200kw/hr saving) ,if a and recycling can do it.
This eliminates the water well ,municiwns rather than state
and federal govts.and big corporations. Tght to vote this to happen.
The country has no entockholders. which in turn burdened
just about every nation wit
masking THEIR errors and tactics and those of the status quo.
ram...@cdp.uucp
This patches up the missing part of responce no.1
Doing two things at once at least doubles the efficiency of fuel use
and cuts it's impact by reducing the amount of fuel to be transported,the
distance of both the hydrogen and the electricity. Today the multiple
purchase of fuel for space and process heat which is not producing
electricity and the other way around multiplies the waste, pollution, and
profit to the suppliers and tax (in Europe it exceeds the cost after
profit) to the governments. The Swiss vote on things directly let them
show us the way.
The electric car is not a reality because charging the battery is
more polluting than burning the fossil fuel directly and of course "WE"
haven't DEMANDED it. Switching the pollution from one area to another is
not an intelligent way to proceed. It is folly to believe the myth that
it is cleaner and cheaper to burn fuel at the central plant when the
electric loads are mostly heat and refrigeration loads and the pollution
of acquiring the fossil fuel,and the subsidized cost of depreciation
allowances,the military ,the land destruction, and the general pattern of
entropy. aren't even mentioned: fertilizer!!! With solar produced
electricity or stored Hydrogen back to electricity it becomes possible to
fuel at home -workplace, and the cost effectiveness goes up even more by
eliminating the middle men. ( the gas stations)
In the mean time Hydrogen powered vehicles are a reality. With a
little more ecology minded consumer INSISTENCE it is possible in a very
short time. This will enable the transportation fuel system to be in end
user control(formerly the non participating consumer) and fuel at home.
(Mercedes Benz just to mention one has converted busses trucks and cars
which have been running for ten years or so. Lithium-hydride tanks and
other materials will simply replace the gasoline tank(the gas is light
and the tank is heavy). This is fine for short hauls, the majority of all
driving. Replacement Stirling even 5 cycle piston engines and ceramic
Wankels can be developed to recycle the millions of vehicles in the
present transportation fleet to cut the smokescreen of remanufacturing
the whole vehicle.We developed the atom bomb in a few months and solved a
million problems,( each of which had some idiot saying it couldn't be
done) to send a man to the moon all we needed to do was mandate it.
As long as it is sun powered pollution is in control.( Co2,carbon
monoxide, formaldehyde to mention a few). NOx [nitrous oxide] is
controlled by catalytic converters and NOx devices for internal
combustion engines in transportation (Fuel cells burn clean) and an
advantage over burning fuel in boilers ,and furnaces for home workplace
cogen applications.
NOTE: Nitrous oxide pollution is mostly created out side the
transportation sector, over 80% of NOx pollution is from agricultural
fertilizer, more so with chemical fertilizer than organic.
The electric car is the way to light footprint low performance
vehicles that are extensions of the bicycle rather than the Freud wagons
of today. This is really the way to go.[ A hybrid gossamer(light weight
composite body) electric-Hydrogen fuel cell Photovoltaic vehicle with
central pivoting accumulating suspension(a 5lb. air bag can do the work
of 1000 lb. spring or torsion bar in a bus).with switchable field motors
in the wheels; the least amount of moving parts, and unsprung
weight.(Works great on trains)]Let's think tank the car first , worry
about air conditioning it later.
In my lifetime I have seen technology and change created out of thin
air when there is a mandate( "WE THE PEOPLE" demand it) as during the
wars,the space program, and Governments changing hands by the insistence
of "WE THE PEOPLE"t as in the eastern block nations,along with their
CENTRALLY PLANNED economies. This is the same thing as"WE" demanding our
own NON CENTRALLY PLANNED ENERGY system that doesn't disrupt the whole
Planet, to benefit 30% of the world's human population. Remember the
student who steeped out in front of the tank during the Tieanamin Sq.
revolution? Now it is your turn.
The artists who donated their talent to record that single
"WE ARE THE WORLD" were some of the most successful artists in the world.
Their success was a perfect example of economic democracy at work, their
fans(not just manipulated consumers) paid for their ongoing success
because they believed what they were saying, doing, and thinking, was
"the right thing".
A pocket book vote.
Economic democracy applied to our energy exercise ,coupled with
logic, and the still clear history of what just plain folks have
accomplished in the last couple of years gives "US" inspiration and the
bold thinking usually associated with the poetic licence of playwrights.
To get this exercise up and running is simple. Cross database the
end users, many of which have no energy at all, which pulls the entire
population of the planet (the owners not legally piggaly) as the real
decision makers. (the whole world voting their mutual consent and pledge
to boycott the polluters [smokers] and use only the non polluting
alternative) One citizen of the world one vote may help level the playing
field.One mind one vote "WE" get to save the boat In the spring of 78 a
Harris pole showed 94% of Americans favored expanding work on solar
energy. A National Geographic survey revealed the same concensus. That
was tantamount to a mandate of the people and "WE" blew it. "WE" would
not be in the middle east if "WE" had followed through rather than
allowing the fox(supply side) to manage "OUR" chickenkoop. Now:
"WE THE PEOPLE" really need to kick ass.
Investors: The end users (YOU) and the potential end users on a
solar budget, the worlds funds which is your money normally used
for the purchase and tax of fossil-carbons, The trillions of dollars a
year world wide to purchase the product, protect the petrotrade and clean
up the mess and radiation of the polluting fuels .
In other words if the people who need energy pledge their support.
The people(possible solar farmers) who are capable of financing and
producing renewable energy on their own land have a way of proceeding.
Guaranteed market guaranteed financing. After all it is our money. Public
radio and television have the facilities to start taking pledges, data
basing end user-producers, and promoting the concept of public produced
energy.(It could help shed their "Petroleum Broadcasting System" image.)
So do "YOU"."YOU" don't need permission to start an advocacy, Just ask
the question to any body:
1.If non polluting Hydrogen were available would you use it?
2.If you knew that millions of other people felt as you do would you
produce Hydrogen on your own land?
3.Can we agree to a price not based on the price of fossil fuel or
the present energy system but of the actual cost of production plus a
reasonable profit based on solar energy and no tax. We can do that with a
people's mandate. This is how "WE" demanded "OUR" right to choose our
telephone companies. Also the cigarette smoking bans. Remember the CB;
"WE"just started using them and the lobbied licence barrier disappeared.
"How many years must a people exist
Before they're allowed to be free"
4.Would you consider a ban on the burning of fossil fuel.
Many of the varieties of renewables are capable of meeting the
demand. So they should present their local national and global scenarios.
To demonstrate a possible scenario I chose just one of the possible
types of renewables.
Here is what it might entail if done using solar concentrator
collectors producing steam -electric and process heat.KISS-TECH
It is possible that considerably less than 10,000 sq. miles of
solar concentrator collectors in reasonably insolated(sunny areas) areas
could provide all the energy for home industrial and transportation in
the form of direct heat,electricity, and Hydrogen in the US. These
collectors can be made by the end user providers themselves at
$1.50 to $10 a sq/ft. for a high intensity solar concentrator collector.
Individuals can fabricate a small unit (100 sq.ft.or so) in a back
yard which breaks down the big numbers of H2 and electricity to be
transported long distances with all the co-generation benefits at their
disposal. Neighborhoods can create districts and share the products of
co-generation. Large end users can have Hydrogen transported from any
distance.(It is more efficient to ship Hydrogen in pipes than electricity
on wires especially if it is going to be used for space-water,
or process heat, refrigeration or air-conditioning, ) .Towns and cities
in low sun areas can produce in the desert on community dedicated farms.
Hydrogen can be fed into a grid to be used by all . The secret is to use
or store as much of the collected energy every time Hydrogen is used or
produced.This reduces the estimates of energy, we now think we need to
about 1/3 .
We(The Ra Energy Fdn.more in the next segment ) researched a mirror
and simple absorber of a solar concentrator collector to replace the
fossil fuel side of the energy exercise. This can be fabricated by almost
any one for as little as $1.50 a sq. ft. for the materials needed to
produce steam. Groups of people in different locations interested in
pioneering and building their own systems from scratch and then teaching
others to do the same would geometrically spread the technology and get
millions of people contributing to the hybridization of the concept. A
large contingency of experimenters crosstalking can configure the
ultimate system in a short time,a global think tank.In the past people
only did this kind of thing during a war.(like right now)
If we could teach 10 groups of 10 people who in turn would do
likewise we could convert the world in a year to Solar Hydrogen.
To get it rolling we need to hear from people,universities,schools,
who have a piece of land, a need for the gas and electricity, heat, steam
etc.,the wherewithal(money and time) to put it together and the desire to
see it through and cooperate (be a demo ) Help organize the seminars..
Writers, Artists,Groups of people to talk the idea up ,letters to
the editors, take polls, find people who are interested, have land and
tell them where to send data base info.(form), and get out the vote.
It is time for the primal scream on energy.
Individuals,originations ,advocates such as Green Peace, Friends of
the Earth,Earth First and visionaries who really believe in low impact
fuel,self sufficiency, and that "WE ARE THE WORLD" and nobody can stop
us are already doing it..
"Knowing is not enough; we must apply.
Willing in not enough; we must do."
Goethe
A data base of the potential dedicated land (ie.land that is owned
by the potential producer-users and are willing to build the system and
produce heat and electricity for starters) areas (back yards,vacant
lots,farms, acres,sq.miles and the conditions of use such as for home or
business,institution , neighborhood,or for sale to grid as contract
producer(solar farmer).This would data base the land available for all
the renewables solar, wind, tidal etc.to maximize the cogen
potential..The more local and home use coupled with conservation the less
we need to transport, perhaps not having to build new gas facilities and
using the existing rights of way. Freing the rest of the peace bonus,
which is the money rescued by this renewable energy exercise, is more
important than the greening of the petrotrade. The less impact the
easier the smoking ban will be to initiate and enforce. This defuses the
artificial conflicts and cleans up the planet.
Needed: To really pull this off.
A data base of individuals:
Who need and want renewables and Hydrogen to become a reality
Who will participate in floating advise and consent on a world
basis.Electronic think tank.
Who will produce Hydrogen on their own land.
To organize a verified 900 number (the voting booth) for world vote
and data base on world opinion.
This in turn evolves into a global e-mail and a
communicator number a combination of world econet,minitel,and
teller machine type of code and account nos. (for privacy not banking).
50 cents (negotiable) to sign up and to vote is cheaper than driving or
traveling to voting polls,gathering millions of signatures for referendum
or paying revolving door SDPP politicians to distort the issues and the
results.It crosses national borders,educational and financial status and
gives immediate feedback.. The synaptual SWITCHING ON of the global brain.
The Swedish Computer Society, IGC or similar non partisan not paid for by
the status quo (supply side) to take it on. ( SCS remember the meeting at
the Mexican Restaurant in L.A.Oct.82 password help )
Any volunteers? It's your planet!!!
Perhaps a little carrot dangling. What we could accomplish with a
few trillion dollars besides not contributing to the national debt.
It is technically possible to construct a solar budget living unit
capable of housing people and producing the food in or around the
dwelling for less than $2000 a person at 5 people to a unit. One billion
units at $10,000 a unit would cost 10 trillion dollars to feed and house
all on earth.
Unfortunately our largest growth industry is pre-natal debt. Our
U.S.national debt was $10,000 pre person before the S&L rip-off. We spend
$8000 dollars a year for energy in the U.S.alone every year for every
citizen. The average combined national debt, S&L ripoff, and the energy
costs for a family of five is well over $100,000 right now. In 10 years
with some increase in population,energy costs,and just interest on the
national debt it will be over $800,000 per family and $160,000 per
individual,$40 trillion for the country.The greater part of this outlay
of our personal income will be directly or indirectly wasted by the use
of carbon fuel .
The shoes of the Fisherman excersise.
"YOU" can feed and house 16 families with just your 10 year share of the
energy deficit.in self sufficient kiss-tech houses that do not use any
energy by building one for yourself and voting for Hydrogen.
Would you pass up a drowning swimmer would you throw a lifesaver to a
starving planet???? Would you rather switch than fight or the other way
around? One mind one vote and "WE" get to save the boat.
How many times must a man turn his head
And pretend that he just doesn't see.
The answer my friend Is blowin' in the wind
The answer is blowin'in the wind.
Peter Paul and Mary
see MADHOUSING en.urban gaia.planning dev.humansettle
available on econet
"We can no longer live as a people on coal and oil
from dead plants".
Our play seems out for an almost infinite run.
Don't mind a little thing like the actors fighting.
The only thing I worry about is the sun.
We'll be all right if nothing goes with the lighting.
Robert Frost
This poem was recited by Will Geer at the dedication of Robert Frost
Square at the head of Mission and Market Streets in San
Fransisco on a beautiful sunny spring day in 1978. He died three days
later.Where are those politicians,artists,poets,photographers,newspaper
people,and fellow sun people who wept in silence as the patchwork quilt
was removed from the plaque to the solo performance of the cable car
man's bell. password help!!!!!!
Will Geer was one of the reasons for the RA ENERGY FOUNDATION in 1976
For the planet
Raleigh
ramyers email
Compulsory Disclaimer rights reserved
including all but not excluding opinions, typos, glitches, syntax,
translations and interpretations.
It is a shame that we need to make legal disclaimers in a voluntary
sharing of information for the good of the planet to protect ourselves
against the intimidations of the supply side camp who are unfortunately
committed to perpetuating THEIR manipulations, errors and tactics and
those of the status quo.
"Thank you o Lord for forgiving me my little joke on thee
and I will forgive you your great big one on me."
Will the real God please stand up and cast the first flame?
'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.
ram...@cdp.uucp
THIS IS THE MISSING PART OF RESPONCE NO.2
2000 sq.mi. is an area the size of Rhode Island (Colorado 60K Texas
260K) but spread out in already owned back yards, vacant lots,deserts and
hot spots nobody would miss it and little new land would need to be
dedicated to energy.Think of all the land we gain back from the
elimination of the carbon thing. .If the Hydrogen fuel is shipped to the
end user first only 35 % or less of the anticipated fuel use will be
needed due to the total use factor of co-gen. The idea is to create
enough for local use and ship the rest north on the gas grid for the
folks who live in areas where they can't produce their own, for the car
and industry. Whenever possible for the sake of maximum efficiency,
Hydrogen should be used to produce electricity in an electric generator
and the heat used or stored.
To stretch your solar budget:
The solar cooker does a meal for a household with 4 sq.ft.so use one this
saves solar storage space, transportation costs, cuts down on need for
surrogate supply and is made from cardboard and aluminum foil,low impact.
It replaces the polluting barbecue.
See: at.library topic 25 available on econet
Refrigeration (1/3of the conventional electric demand 2/3 if air
conditioning)if this were converted to direct flame (Servel system H2
flame)it is 10 times more energy efficient than electric compressor(no
breakdowns) and you can better that with cogen by sharing the flame using
bimetallics(fuel cell) , IR photovoltaics or a Stirling generator (a
candle can run a radio about 50 watts)
A combination Flame powered Stirling electric generator and refrigeration
cycle is almost ready for production.DEMAND IT !!!
The fuel is a reality now.DEMAND IT!!!.
The concentrator collector can be used directly: to produce central cold
(ammonia in the absorber as one of the functions) which can also be
stored as a block of ice,phase change materials or the ground PAHS)
The ground is 50-60 degrees F 10 ft below the surface the world around
200 lineal ft. 4in.diameter pipe buried in the ground 10 ft. below the
surface =a ton of air conditioning(1200kw/hr saving) ,if a water well is
used only 100 ft of 1in. diameter pipe. per ton is required so use it. It
is 50 degrees hot in winter and cool in summer.(A.I.A. seminar Fall 83
New Orleans)
Heat from any source can be stored years in advance in the ground simply
by isolating and insulating it and piping in the waste heat from attics,
greenhouses, stoves , and solar collectors.
Hot water is mostly for bathing and laundry, adds to the volume of water
to be processed as sewerage, and 40% of the energy bill for a family of
five.
A mist shower(Bucky) takes a cup of water with steam from the collector
as does the laundry.
Water can be drasticly reduced by the laundry and shower needs lessened
now the toilet; use digestor sewerage and no water,also digests
garbage.
When the water need is reduced below 1/10, the water service and all
the energy needed to pump, provide,and then treat it are no longer a
requirement.
A dew point accumulator,catching rainwater and recycling can do it.
This eliminates the water well ,municipal water supply,the septic
system,city sewerage infrastructure,garbage collection, the energy
required, and the taxes involved for all this pork barrel. This makes
almost any land livable lowering the cost of land and allows people to
live where they want rather in captive areas of mandatory consumption.
This is not achievable in many already built areas or all at once so
we have to design for the new and retrofitable and for people who are
just now looking for the way of life they heard about and we wasted
before they ever got a chance. We can give the 20-20 hind sight
information and start their advance to new civilization the way "WE"
should have if "WE" weren't blinded by misinformation and greed.
ON the average just changing the way we live from the carefully nurtured
and promoted for profit by surrogates to LIFE for IT's sake we take our
inherited right to BE out of probate.
This is a project for groups in cities and towns rather than state
and federal govts.and big corporations. The electric and Hydrogen gas
grid fed from the users out( rather than the way the carbon
system has used us) is a definitive way of diffusing the gridlock on the
planet.
The financing and the development of deployment is easier if a group of
groups participate, the diversity reduces the chance of this becoming
just another get rich scheme. Frank Lloyd Wright gave the idea of the
concrete block so nobody got a patent and buried the idea.Bucky talked
about legally piggaly.
This is the same kind of need fulfillment. The concept can be
shared,taught and spread by mutual consultation .The people who will
benefit will design the system that most suits them not the surrogate
supplier. We were never asked to recite the Bill of Rights in celebration
of our selves just the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag in celebration of
the politicians, God King throw backs who wrap themselves in it,the
worship of the emporer's new cloths.
It is "OUR" right to vote this to happen.
The country has no energy policy because the politicians threw it out.
The world has no life support policy because exploitation is profitable.
For the awakening global citizen the task at hand is Gaianomics.
"WE" thank each other for "OUR" support.
"WE THE PEOPLE"
*** After eliminating the gold standard causing runaway inflation and
interest rates the U.S. govt suggested (Nixon- Kissenger) to the Iranians
in the early 70's that they could raise the price of oil to pay for arms
to protect the oil shipments and build infrastructure banana republic
style. This started the oil cartel and raised the price of Texas crude
accordingly.(50% of our oil is US) It has also been said that Aramco
(Arab American Oil Co.) is the trump card in manipulating the foreign
oil. (planned scarcity) The money acquired from these shady deals
(aren't cartels illegal?) fattened the coffers of the IMF, the World
bank, U.S. oil Companies and their stockholders. which in turn burdened
just about every nation with ridiculous debt. How much of the US national
debt and the S&L rip-off is laundered windfall oil profit??? Now factor
in the hostile takeovers with junk bonds backed by these same funds, the
tax write offs for the bank and deposit losses of the forgiven foreign
debt(they just refused to be ripped off) and a 50% tax reduction for
those high rollers all in the same decade. On top of all that they
scuttled the renewable energy plan we voted for. Don't get mad get your
money back, ban fossil fuel and convert to Hydrogen!!!!
For the planet
Raleigh
RA ENERGY FOUNDATION
E mail welcome ramyers
Compulsory Disclaimer rights reserved
including all but not excluding opinions, typos, glitches, syntax,
translations and interpretations.
It is a shame that we need to make legal disclaimers in a voluntary
sharing of information for the planet to protect ourselves against the
intimidations of the sale of information camp who are mostly dedicated to
masking THEIR errors and tactics and those of the status quo.
Lucius Chiaraviglio
I am not going to include the material from this series of articles
(written by decwrl.dec.com!sgi!cdp!ramyers), because it is simply too long. I
thought of many comments to make throughout the set of postings, but for the
most part it does not seem worth the trouble. Therefore, I will summarize a
very small segment (-: this is very likely for the better :-) of what I would
have said if I could think straight into the computer at something over 1200
bps, including the reasons I find these messages not worthy of a more
in-depth response.
First of all, the messages are quite incoherent even after discounting
segments which were obviously mangled by some kind of transmission problem.
It is NOT true, as stated in the first message, that one does not need various
features of clarity and education (listed as spelling and mathematical
ability), to come up with solutions of more than small conseqence. I could go
on at great length about how the lack of clear thought and education has given
us the mess of Reaganomics (among other evils of which that is only the tip of
the iceberg), but I will summarize matters by paraphrasing a passage from
within the first of the articles:
An uneducated, unthinking, incoherent, and hype-
controlled populace is no more likely to wean itself
from our dependance on fossil fuels than are drunkards
and potheads to get smokers to stop smoking.
Harsh, but just as true as the paraphrased passage. If the series of articles
had at least been coherent, correctly-spelled, and had lacked a disdain for
mathematics and for all users of mathematics, and had also not been a hype-
filled emotional and political-sounding ranting, it would have made less of a
bad impression.
This brings up another issue: the "DEMANDS" of "The People" are not
going to solve the world's problems, because "The People" and their demands
are part of the problem. Have you not noticed that the people of the United
States have consistently been demanding bigger, more powerful, and sexier
"freudmobiles"? Have you not noticed that a majority of the voting population
of the United States voted for Ronald Reagan and then for George Bush (not to
mention a whole host of other past and current representatives of big business
and other causes of social and environmental destruction)? I could mention a
whole host of other ills willfully perpetrated by the people themselves --
with the politicians and businesses taking advantage of and encouraging, but
not necessarily starting, but then this posting would not really be
appropriate for sci.energy. Briefly -- it is true that the people are blinded
by deception and greed, but then on the other hand their own choices make them
that way -- else how would things have gotten the way they are in the first
place? The people are no more likely to wean themselves from conspicuous
consumption than are drug addicts (including those of the legal drugs) likely
to free themselves from drugs.
Finally, this series of articles to which I am replying is not only
(to be generous) poorly coherent, but it is also poorly thought-out with
respect to concept. Rather than attempt to respond to each problem issue, I
will simply list a few important issues:
Where is consideration of the technical aspects
of storing and transporting hydrogen? Scientific
American should not be used as a sole source of
information; the claim that energy can be
transported more efficiently by piped hydrogen
than by very high-voltage DC electricity seems
suspicious. If we can't even keep the Space
Shuttle's fuel systems from leaking hydrogen,
how can we expect to keep thousands of kilometers
of pipeline from leaking a gas that is rather
more difficult to store than methane? Whatever
one may say about NASA's competence, NASA is
composed of Real People.
Transmission of power by sending microwaves
through the gas pipes would cause considerable
risk to people and the environment even if it
were technically feasible, which seems dubious
at best.
What is wrong with using carbon-containing fuels,
provided that the carbon that they contain comes
from carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, or from
carbon dioxide which would have gone into the
atmosphere? (I know, some care will be needed
to ensure that plants or whatever are used to
produce such fuels will not displace natural
environments, but the same could be said of solar
collector arrays of various types.)
Where is consideration of the environmental cost
of hydrogen production? The very fact that
hydrogen is not a fossil fuel means that it must
be manufactured, but that will require energy,
and solar energy is not free in terms of
environmental cost. I do not have numbers
concerning the environmental cost of solar
energy; in fact, based on what I have read in
multiple sources, I have come to the conclusion
that the environmental cost of at least some
forms of solar energy is lower than that of
fossil fuels. However, in a series of articles
pushing solar energy, this issue should have
been addressed. After all, photovoltaic cells,
which would probably be required for fossil fuel/
nuclear-free hydrogen generation at least in
those areas not possessing winds of reasonable
constancy and strength or plentiful hydroelectric
power, are not exactly the most environmentally-
friendly things to manufacture.
Where is consideration of the requirements for
and environmental costs of manufacturing some of
the "low-tech" materials listed for use in
building a solar concentrator? Can one really
expect a non-industrialized country (or an
independant organization therein) to be able
to provide aluminum foil for its people without
depending upon an industrialized country? Also,
although I do not have any figures handy, I have
a hard time believing that aluminum production
is exactly cheap in energy consumption or
environmental cost. For that matter, even the
production of ferroconcrete, another "low-tech"
material, might give some countries trouble.
The entire series of articles contains no
consideration of reducing pollution and energy
consumption by switching from private transportation
to public transportation and by reducing the need
for total transportation. For that matter, the
entire series of articles contains only one
reference to trains, which use energy much more
efficiently than other forms of land transportation
(and much more efficiently than air transportation)
and which could deal better with the weight and
space problems of hydrogen storage -- or, better yet,
simply use power from the power grid -- than other
forms of transportation.
Do you really expect people to be able to get
clean with a spray of mist, or expect them to
believe that this is possible? I have no
objection to designing showers that use less
water than the current common showers, but this
is ridiculous.
The series of articles to which I have replied is so poorly
constructed and conceived, and is such an emotional and political-sounding
ranting, that it gives a bad face to those who promote renewable energy and
conservation of energy and the environment.
Hmm. . . this is line 156 already -- be glad that I did not produce
more in-depth response to this series of articles. . . .
These opinions are written not under the influence of any energy
company or any of their promoters. I have no connection with any energy
company or any of their promoters, except as a dissatisfied customer.
--
| Lucius Chiaraviglio | Internet: ch...@midway.uchicago.edu
William Spencer
> On the other hand, I for one have a hard time taking such hippie-rheoteric
> seriously. We'll do more to solve problems by concentrated, goal-directed
> thinking than by wishful-thinking.
While it would have been more effective and provoking a "revolution"
if it had been better written, "WE THE PEAPLE" was very thought provoking
and raised some interesting points. Your criticism included:
> hippie-rheoteric
But the energy technologies ARE controlled by those with vested interests!
> We'll do more to solve problems by concentrated, goal-directed
> thinking
Exactly what does this mean? Do you mean everyone thinking has to be in the
same place? Many problems must be solved,
does it matter if they are solved by different peaple all over the place
or by a concentration? (Some mechanism must be provided to share info.
However, centralized i.e. corperate creativity is also unlikely to be
shared.) Are you saying that the author of "WE THE PEAPLE" doesn't
have a goal?
>than by wishful-thinking.
In the beginning, there are loose, unstructured roots to any idea.
The article actually contained some good ideas although they need a
LOT of work to say the least. But enough to push the nay-saying side
of me back for a while.
MY criticism of "HYDROGEN by 'WE THE PEAPLE'":
He's right, there's a whole web of societal pressures and restrictions
in our way to a restructured energy technology and economy. Economics,
energy, and the environment are all intertwined. How can you change one
without changing the others? Only a little at a time, but then you lose
momentum in day-to-day living.
Producing your own power and changing your lifestyle to help save the
environment takes time and
your energy. Sure, in the long run you *could* save a lot of money, but can
you sucessfully make a transition without losing your day-to-day
battle with the world of high-powered sharks? Our society is wasteful
(though interesting). We waste gas and live in areas with high standards
of living so we can afford to buy more gas and cars and continue living
in expensive areas with high standards of living, etc., etc., etc.
This is called "progress", but I'm not convinced entirely. Change seems almost
hopeless, but all it could take is one factor in the equation changing to
improve everything. An economic improvement would make energy and
environmental problems much more easily solved. But the energy buisness
is a factor in our economic domination also -- put energy in the hands of
the peaple and you also put economic control in the hands of the peaple,
perhaps.
The question of values is raised. Consider IF society could be restructured
to be far more friendly to the environment with a small but not
inconsequencial lifestyle adjustment (we could be closer than you think).
As "WE THE PEAPLE" suggests, it would be a matter of "voting it in".
Would peaple do it?
Bill S.
MY opinions.
Russ Cage
>fear of intimidation. With this licence and the power of attitude
>adjustment it doesn't matter if there are a few mistakes in spelling or a
>few math glitches ,the idea is the thing.
What math? What idea? There was an idea in that jumble?
Without an idea, and math (correct math) which SUPPORTS that
idea, you've got nothing which belongs in the sci.* distribution.
You're going to wind up in lots of KILL files at this rate. Take
it over to talk.politics.misc if it's political.
--
Russ Cage Ford Powertrain Engineering Development Department
Work: itivax.iti.org!cfctech!fmeed1!cage (CHATTY MAIL NOT ANSWERED HERE)
Home: ru...@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us (All non-business mail)
Member: HASA, "S" division.
Douglas G. Danforth
>The Summary field says everything I wish to say in response to the latest
>poorly-coherent message that I did not already say in my previous posting.
>--
>| Lucius Chiaraviglio | Internet: ch...@midway.uchicago.edu
If we are voting on the merits of "WE THE PEOPLE" then I must
say that I found the stream of consciousness presentation a refreshingly
different style. Its nice to get out of the well worked precise
phraseology of the scientific domain once in a while. One must
read between the lines and do a little work to judge for himself the
validity of the content.
The idea of creating local energy sources from sunlight and water
needs serious consideration. It appeals to me since redundancy
increases our chance of survival in a green, cool, quiet world.
--
Douglas G. Danforth (danf...@riacs.edu)
Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science (RIACS)
M/S 230-5, NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035
Lucius Chiaraviglio
Danforth) writes:
>In <1990Oct24.0...@midway.uchicago.edu> ch...@quads.uchicago.edu
>(Lucius Chiaraviglio) writes:
>
>>The Summary field says everything I wish to say in response to the latest
>>poorly-coherent message that I did not already say in my previous posting.
>
>say that I found the stream of consciousness presentation a refreshingly
>different style.
A stream of consciousness, if not coherent and well-thought-out,
should undergo editing before presentation to the general public (unless the
specific intention is to present a stream of consciousness for its own sake,
which I do not think was the case here). Otherwise it will not only turn
people off, but also contain ideas so ill-conceived as to be harmful if acted
upon as stated.
> Its nice to get out of the well worked precise
>phraseology of the scientific domain once in a while. [. . .]
That is fine, but that should not be taken to mean leaving behind
coherence and at least a modicum of care in construction of content.
> The idea of creating local energy sources from sunlight and water
>needs serious consideration. It appeals to me since redundancy
>increases our chance of survival in a green, cool, quiet world.
I was by no means objecting to this concept. What I was objecting to
was the extremely poor quality of the presentation of this concept and the
lack of any care in thinking through the plan for execution of this concept.
The series of articles I was replying initially (did my initial reply not make
it to most locations?) to give a bad face to people who wish to advance
conservation and the use of local and renewable energy sources, and the
repetition after my reply of a part of one of those articles only served to
allow the detection of another thing wrong with the repeated part ("destroy
the world by perfect spelling"? -- get a grip on reality).