US hifi equip on 50Hz (Europe)??
stu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
on the 220v mains in Europe.
Except for TV's, I would think that most other home entertainment
type stuff would work ok, cassettes, CD's, etc., with a simple
step down transformer.... the 50Hz shouldn't be a problem.
BUt then, I've never tried it, so I would appreciate any input.
Joel Spolsky
no! be careful! Many of these devices rely on the frequency of the
mains to determine the speed that the motor should go. A lot of
times, if you do this, the turntable or cassette recorder will
run too slow, or the clock will be 20% inaccurate, etc. etc.
Another problem with AM radios -- in the US, AM frequencies are in
multiples of 10. However outside the US they are usually in multiples
of 9. (go figger). This means that some US radios that rely on fixed
digital tuning will not be able to cope. Also many countries use LW
or SW extensively or put their radio stations somewhere else on the
dial, entirely.
TVs and VCRs are right out. There are completely different standards
for TV and VCRs outside the US (PAL and SECAM) and they broadcast
on completely different frequencies.
Finally, those little bitty hair-dryer transformers that they
sell in airports are all but useless. They would probably not
be able to support, e.g., an amplifier. Even the big heavy ones
are not that great and may not provide enough power for
some stereo equipment.
On the positive side, many electrical components these days have
transformers which are rated for a wide range of power sources
... especially PC's, laptop computers, etc. My Compaq AC adapter is
marked: "Hz 50-60. V100-120,220-240". It detects what it's plugged
into and adjusts automatically.
There are quite a few appliance shops in New York City that
specialize in European standard appliances and appliances which
can be used internationally. There are also shops which specialize
in converting PAL/SECAM video tapes. Also on the bright side,
the "international" versions of consumer electronics products
will often have a switch or auto-detect to convert between
different power supplies. For example SONY short wave radios have
a tiny, hidden switch to handle AM frequencies that are multiples
of 9 KHz, and SONY clock radios often have a 50Hz/60Hz switch.
(Once my sister set her's wrong and woke up 2 hours late for school!)
By the way, almost ALL electrical plug-in clocks rely on the 50/60Hz
signal in the wall to keep in synch. That is because most power
plants in the world actually measure their cycles against an
atomic clock and then drop or add cycles, as necessary, to adjust.
That means that a cheap-o $5 electric alarm clock plugged into
the wall will almost certainly be as precise as an atomic clock.
Cool huh?
-- ____
Joel Spolsky \ / Label jars,
spo...@panix.com \/ not people.
Sam Goldwasser
One thing to add to an excellent discussion of compatibility and power
conversion is this: Those cheapo power convertors which weigh as much
as a feather do not contain a transformer but rather use diodes and/or
thyristers for the power conversion. These are designed to be used only
with resistance heating type devices - hairdryers, toasters, etc. They may
cause expensive damage to transformer operated equipment like stereos and
clock radios since while the power is adjusted for the AC line differences,
the peak voltage may not be. The power convertor may self destruct or the
unit being powered may self destruct or both.
--- sam
Jaime Navon
I have tried it in Chile 220V/50Hz with no problem whatsoever.
Some old VCR's have problems with the time (they use the line
frequency as reference). In general all watch/radios may have
trouble.
TV's (Sony 21) work as well with a step down transformer.
--
/\ /\ /\ /\
/ \ /\ /\/ \ /\/ \ / \/\ /\/\
/ \/\/ \_______/ \ \__/\/ / \_____/ \ \_____/ \ \
Jaime Navon-...@cs.unc.edu--Computer Science--UNC Chapel-Hill
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Aaron Sliwenkski
: Someone has asked me about the use of US type hi fi equipment
I have run a SoundCraftsmen DX4200 preamp, two PCR800 power amps,
Magnavox CDB650 CD-player, Dual turntable, Grundig tuner, and the
little Bose 901 equalizer all on 220V/50Hz. All the Soundcraftmen
hardware has the ability to run directly off the 220V mains and
I ran the CD player off a transformer. I had this setup running
for well over ten years in one form or another. Since moving to
the US, I have the Grundig tuner, Dual turntable, and the Bose
equalizer running off a step-up transformer without any trouble.
My experience with mixing equipment designed for different mains
is not to buy anything that depends on the line frequency such
as turntables. (should not be a problem today). Just ground everything
well and there should be no problem.
Anthony R. Gold
stu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> Someone has asked me about the use of US type hi fi equipment
> on the 220v mains in Europe.
>
> Except for TV's, I would think that most other home entertainment
> type stuff would work ok, cassettes, CD's, etc., with a simple
> step down transformer.... the 50Hz shouldn't be a problem.
>
> BUt then, I've never tried it, so I would appreciate any input.
Yup, they all work fine. Even a TV, if you've got an NTSC source to
view, so bring your VCR and pre-recorded tapes with you.
The only complicated one I've found are line powered Wahl hair clippers,
where you have to "tune" the thing to mechanically resonate with the mains.
Wahl provides an adjustment screw to do just that.
By the way, with all broadcast stuff (AM, FM, TV) the bands may be
somewhat similar but the channels and spacings are quite different.
FM may show up on any 50 kHz interval which may be inaccessible with US
spec tuners and AM uses 9 kHz channeling, again not standard except in
portables intended for international travel.
Happy trails.
--
Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM / tg...@microvst.demon.co.uk
Ray Rose
I had a stereo receiver and tape deck in Switzerland ten years
ago and they worked fine. I ran the power through a huge power
transformer which I had to wire myself. I didn't have a CD player
though (they were just starting to hit the market then), but I don't
think that would be a problem. Many modern electronic devices can
automatically adapt to the input voltage, so you might not even
need a transformer - just a plug adapter. Just be absolutely sure
of this before you try it though.
If you want to use a receiver, remember they use different radio
frequencies in Europe. FM stations are at 10Mhz intervals instead
of the 20Mhz spacing used in the U.S., so half the stations may
be unreceivable. And AM stations are spaced 9Khz instead of 10Khz,
so 90% of the stations will be unreceivable. Some receivers have
a switch for this. If yours doesn't, it won't be very useful.
--
Ray
Mark Kinsler
>>step down transformer.... the 50Hz shouldn't be a problem.
A lot of equipment has convertible power transformers. There are two
primaries: you put them in series for 240v and in parallel for 120v.
50hz vs 60hz is not, of course, a problem unless you've got an electric
clock that keeps time by counting the hz. 50 vs 60 hz used to be a
problem when tape machines and turntables were powered by synchronous
motors. I used to convert a lot of stuff purchased by GI's in Germany by
shaving down the motor pulleys and rewiring the motors. Motors now are
dc and electronically speed-controlled.
M Kinsler
Alain Knaff
Strange... Looking at my radio, the whole *range* for FM is only 20Mhz.
That would be only 3 stations in total. However, we have many more, and
their frequency is usually indicated whith a precision of 0.1Mhz. And
here in Grenoble, we have several stations which are only 0.4Mhz apart!
--
Alain
Peter Chrzanowski
<stu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>>Someone has asked me about the use of US type hi fi equipment
>>on the 220v mains in Europe.
>
>>Except for TV's, I would think that most other home entertainment
>>type stuff would work ok, cassettes, CD's, etc., with a simple
>>step down transformer.... the 50Hz shouldn't be a problem.
>
>>BUt then, I've never tried it, so I would appreciate any input.
> no! be careful! Many of these devices rely on the frequency of the
> mains to determine the speed that the motor should go. A lot of
> times, if you do this, the turntable or cassette recorder will
> run too slow, or the clock will be 20% inaccurate, etc. etc.
Practically all cassette recorders and phonographs made within the
past 20 years or so use DC motors and therefore will run at the
correct speed independent of the power line ("mains") frequency.
A.C. induction motors are found in some older equipment, however,
and these run at multiples of the power line frequency.
CD players do not spin the CD at a constant angular speed.
Plug in stuff with a digital clock almost always uses the power
line frequency as the time standard, so these won't work correctly
(although there may be a jumper somewhere to correct it).
Power transformers tend to run slightly hotter at 50 Hz than at 60 Hz.
Usually this is not a problem, but if the label specifies only 60Hz -
well, it's probably OK but you'll have to take your chances.
> Another problem with AM radios -- in the US, AM frequencies are in
> multiples of 10. However outside the US they are usually in multiples
> of 9. (go figger). This means that some US radios that rely on fixed
> digital tuning will not be able to cope. Also many countries use LW
> or SW extensively or put their radio stations somewhere else on the
> dial, entirely.
Also, FM frequencies in North America are always at odd tenths of a MHz
(e.g., 95.5FM but not 106.2FM); this is not true in some parts of the
world. Some FM radios sold in North America can tune to even tenths
but some can't.
> TVs and VCRs are right out. There are completely different standards
> for TV and VCRs outside the US (PAL and SECAM) and they broadcast
> on completely different frequencies.
Yes.
> Finally, those little bitty hair-dryer transformers that they
> sell in airports are all but useless. They would probably not
> be able to support, e.g., an amplifier. Even the big heavy ones
> are not that great and may not provide enough power for
> some stereo equipment.
The "bitty hair-dryer transformers" aren't really transformers; they
work somewhat like light dimmers. They are for use with appliances
which contain only heating elements and/or universal-type motors.
Stuff with electronics often gets fried if used with one of these.
> On the positive side, many electrical components these days have
> transformers which are rated for a wide range of power sources
> ... especially PC's, laptop computers, etc. My Compaq AC adapter is
> marked: "Hz 50-60. V100-120,220-240". It detects what it's plugged
> into and adjusts automatically.
Unfortunately this is usually not the case with stereos and TVs.
It used to be that a lot of consumer electronics products could be easily
converted from 120 VAC to 240 VAC by changing the transformer wiring,
but today that is often not the case as many products are designed
specifically for the North American market and costs are cut to
(and perhaps into) the bone.
Frank Bures
Joel Spolsky <spo...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>no! be careful! Many of these devices rely on the frequency of the
>mains to determine the speed that the motor should go. A lot of
>times, if you do this, the turntable or cassette recorder will
>run too slow, or the clock will be 20% inaccurate, etc. etc.
Only in the case of synchronous motors (some reel-to-reel tape-decks used
to have them).
>
>Another problem with AM radios -- in the US, AM frequencies are in
>multiples of 10. However outside the US they are usually in multiples
>of 9. (go figger). This means that some US radios that rely on fixed
European standard sets the bandwidth at 4.5kHz with two sidebands =>
9kHz.
>
>By the way, almost ALL electrical plug-in clocks rely on the 50/60Hz
>signal in the wall to keep in synch. That is because most power
>plants in the world actually measure their cycles against an
>atomic clock and then drop or add cycles, as necessary, to adjust.
What you are referring to is so called integral network => such a network
guarantees the constant number of cycles per 24 hours period.
Number of cycles = 50 x 60 x 60 x 24.
The actual frequency may vary and it almost never is 50Hz precisely.
Countries of Central and Eastern Europe used to have non-integral
network. Because the network was overloaded almost all the time, the
central control would simply let the frequency drop. It was better than
to loose the synchrony due to overload. My experience is from
Czechoslovakia where the frequency was almost never more than 49.5Hz.
I remember volunteering in an arena in the city of Most, where the
digital scoreboard had the clock derived from the power frequency.
During an international basketball game that was tied almost all the
time it almost caused an international incident when referees' stopwatch
was showing an end of game while scoreboard was showing 20secs
remaining.
Under these conditions imported clocks based on the presumption of an
integral network were completely unusable.
>That means that a cheap-o $5 electric alarm clock plugged into
>the wall will almost certainly be as precise as an atomic clock.
>Cool huh?
>
Not really.
--
Frank Bures, University of Toronto, ON, Canada, M5S 1A1
Internet: fbu...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca CompuServe: 71324,1515
"I have a major in rhythm, minor in soul and a PhD in blues"
Ray Rose
> Strange... Looking at my radio, the whole *range* for FM is only 20Mhz.
>That would be only 3 stations in total. However, we have many more, and
>their frequency is usually indicated whith a precision of 0.1Mhz. And
>here in Grenoble, we have several stations which are only 0.4Mhz apart!
Oooops! That's what happens when you do advanced math after an
extended period of sleep deprivation. I meant 0.2 Mhz.
r
nico coesel
>Path: knowar!NL.net!sun4nl!EU.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!stubbs
>From: stu...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
>Newsgroups: sci.electronics,misc.consumers
>Subject: US hifi equip on 50Hz (Europe)??
>Message-ID: <1995Mar13.1...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
>Date: 13 Mar 95 13:42:34 CST
>Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
>Lines: 12
The only things which won't work properly on 50Hz are clocks and most
record-players because these use the
line frequency as a reference. All the other stuff will work fine.
Andrew Rogers
>signal in the wall to keep in synch. That is because most power
>plants in the world actually measure their cycles against an
>atomic clock and then drop or add cycles, as necessary, to adjust.
I have a digital clock on my stove and another on the builtin microwave
immediately above it. I sync them by pushing their 'start' buttons
simultaneously - but a month or so later they're out of sync by a
couple of seconds.
Andrew
Edward Cheung
>frequencies in Europe. FM stations are at 10Mhz intervals instead
>of the 20Mhz spacing used in the U.S., so half the stations may
Don't you mean that the spacing in US is 0.2Mhz? FM 107.3 Mhz,
FM 107.5 Mhz etc.
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Edward Cheung, Ph.D. | The opinions expressed herein |
|Satellite Servicing Robotics Laboratory| do not necessarily reflect |
| NASA Goddard Space Flight Center | those of my employers' |
| Code 714.1, Bldg T11B | |
| Greenbelt, MD 20771 | |
| 301-286-1269(office) 286-1717(fax) | My next book: |
| Internet: oad...@robots.gsfc.nasa.gov | Statistics, Demos and Other Lies |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Richard MacDonald
Cheung) writes:
I have always been told that the European spacing was also 20 Khz but
that stations were on the even (i.e. 101.2, 101.4) channels. Nor do my
expressed opinions reflect those of my employer, even though I work for
myself.
--
Richard S. (Dick) MacDonald - Dic...@ix.netcom.com
"Nothing is so aggravating as | Beam me up,
calmness." | Scottie, it's
--- Oscar Wilde | time to Warp!
Alain Knaff
: In <3k9vao$j...@post.gsfc.nasa.gov> ebc...@rs710.gsfc.nasa.gov (Edward
: Cheung) writes:
: >
: >In article <3k6pcb$g...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com> r...@watson.ibm.com (Ray
: Rose) writes:
: >
: >>frequencies in Europe. FM stations are at 10Mhz intervals instead
: >>of the 20Mhz spacing used in the U.S., so half the stations may
: >
: >Don't you mean that the spacing in US is 0.2Mhz? FM 107.3 Mhz,
: >FM 107.5 Mhz etc.
: >
: >+---------------------------------------+------------------------------
: -----+
: >| Edward Cheung, Ph.D. | The opinions expressed
: herein |
: >|Satellite Servicing Robotics Laboratory| do not necessarily reflect
: |
: >| NASA Goddard Space Flight Center | those of my employers'
: |
: >| Code 714.1, Bldg T11B |
: |
: >| Greenbelt, MD 20771 |
: |
: >| 301-286-1269(office) 286-1717(fax) | My next book:
: |
: >| Internet: oad...@robots.gsfc.nasa.gov | Statistics, Demos and Other
: Lies |
: >+---------------------------------------+------------------------------
: -----+
: >
: I have always been told that the European spacing was also 20 Khz but
: that stations were on the even (i.e. 101.2, 101.4) channels. Nor do my
: expressed opinions reflect those of my employer, even though I work for
: myself.
[I'm speaking from Grenoble in France, Europe]
Nope, we have stations both on even and odd "channels". Browsing thru
a list of stations than can be received here in Grenoble I noticed
that the closest together stations were 0.4 MHz apart. However,
somewhere else they might be closer together. They are not evenly
spaced: Some are 0.4MHz apart, some 0.5 MHz, etc.
Oh, and btw, 0.1 MHz = 100 kHz, not 10 kHz.
--
Alain
Mark Phaedrus
>By the way, almost ALL electrical plug-in clocks rely on the 50/60Hz
>signal in the wall to keep in synch. That is because most power
>plants in the world actually measure their cycles against an
>atomic clock and then drop or add cycles, as necessary, to adjust.
Hmm. Judging from the fact that none of the six clocks around me
right now (all different brands, some digital, some analog, all plug-in) are
within ten seconds of the same time, and all of them were set to the
nearest second from the same source six months ago, I'd say that "almost all"
may be an overstatement. :-)
I took a few basic electronics design courses, and was taught that it
was dangerous to rely on the 60Hz signal being reliable in this way.
Many power plants in the US do not add or drop cycles in this fashion.
Others do, but the cycles can come so fast during "adding" that a motor being
driven at the rate of the pulses could overload or malfunction. Of course,
the instructor may have held stock in an oscillator manufacturer for all I
know... :-)
--
\o\ If you're interested in books/stories with transformation \o\
\o\themes, or in furry/anthropomorphic art, email me, or anonymous-\o\
\o\ftp to ftp.halcyon.com and check the /local/phaedrus directory. \o\
\o\ Web users: Now try http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/Menu.html \o\
don schiller
Digital clocks (generally) have an internal oscillator circuit rather then
relying on the ac frequency. If the clock is properly calibrated, it should
be more acurate then an ac frequency controlled clock. However, not all
clocks are properly calibrated.
Don
*Just a hardware guy in a software world.*
All above is my opinion, not the opinion of 3M Company.
le...@fndcd.fnal.gov
> In article <3k9rr6$d...@sasuga.Hi.COM> rog...@sasuga.Hi.COM (Andrew Rogers) writes:
>
>>In article <3k3bd5$7...@panix3.panix.com> spo...@panix.com (Joel Spolsky)
>>writes:
>>>By the way, almost ALL electrical plug-in clocks rely on the 50/60Hz
>>>signal in the wall to keep in synch. That is because most power
>>>plants in the world actually measure their cycles against an
>>>atomic clock and then drop or add cycles, as necessary, to adjust.
>
>>I have a digital clock on my stove and another on the builtin microwave
>>immediately above it. I sync them by pushing their 'start' buttons
>>simultaneously - but a month or so later they're out of sync by a
>>couple of seconds.
>
> Digital clocks (generally) have an internal oscillator circuit rather then
> relying on the ac frequency. If the clock is properly calibrated, it should
> be more acurate then an ac frequency controlled clock. However, not all
> clocks are properly calibrated.
Not true. While a crystal controlled clock would certainly be more consistant,
the average accuracy of the power grid is much better. The power companies
adjust the frequency so that the long-term accuracy is very good. Most
clocks use the power line for clocking and use an internal oscillator only if
running on batteries (if so equipped).
--
===============================================================================
[ Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory ]
===============================================================================
[ Mark E. Levy, N9RXF | ]
[ BitNet: LEVY@FNAL | Unix: The only computer virus ]
[ Internet: LE...@FNAL.GOV | with a user interface. ]
[ HEPnet/SPAN: FNAL::LEVY (VMS!) | (such as it is...) ]
===============================================================================
Gang Zhou
Peter Chrzanowski <ch...@tellabs.com> wrote:
>> Finally, those little bitty hair-dryer transformers that they
>> sell in airports are all but useless. They would probably not
>> be able to support, e.g., an amplifier. Even the big heavy ones
>> are not that great and may not provide enough power for
>> some stereo equipment.
>
>The "bitty hair-dryer transformers" aren't really transformers; they
>work somewhat like light dimmers. They are for use with appliances
>which contain only heating elements and/or universal-type motors.
>Stuff with electronics often gets fried if used with one of these.
As we are at the topic, does anybody know if rooms in decent european
(austrian in my specific case) hotels have (120v/60hz) outlets for hair dryer
brought with by american travelers? And can I use those outlets to charge
my (american) camcorder batteries?
Thanks
Gang
Aaron Sliwenkski
: In article <1995Mar16....@tellab5.tellabs.com>,
: Thanks
: Gang
Those outlets you mention are probably just for shavers. If you look at the
labeling, they are pretty low wattage, and from what I can remember they are
at the local line frequency (50hz). For charging your movie camera batteries,
see if your charger is a universal voltage type. I have one of those and
it automatically adjusts to the input voltage as long as it is 90V - 240V.
It's kinda spooky the first time you try it (I expected sparks but didn't
get any).
Goran Olsson, Plasma Physics, KTH
>A lot of equipment has convertible power transformers. There are two
>primaries: you put them in series for 240v and in parallel for 120v.
>50hz vs 60hz is not, of course, a problem...
The core of a transformer designed for 60 Hz will saturate at 50 Hz, and that will
be a problem, (of course :-) ).
Especially in hi-fi equipment, where the added heat, mechanical noise
and stray field are very unwanted.
Better therefore also check that there is a label saying 50/60 Hz.
=========================================================================
Goran Olsson
Alfven Laboratory, Space Plasma Physics, Electronic Engineering,
KTH (Royal Institute of Technology), Stockholm, Sweden
ols...@plasma.kth.se
http://www.plasma.kth.se/alfven-lab.html
=========================================================================
Rich Greene
> (austrian in my specific case) hotels have (120v/60hz) outlets for hair dryer
> brought with by american travelers? And can I use those outlets to charge
> my (american) camcorder batteries?
You are out of luck. I've been to Europe many times and have yet to
see any 110 60Hz outlets anywhere. For one thing, they would be too
expensive to install in all the rooms as they would need step down
transformers and the 60 cycles would be 50 cycles.
I strongly recommend against taking any high wattage heat generating
hand appliance to Europe. They would only run on a heavy duty transformer which can
be purchase in Europe but are pricey.
The only piece of stereo equipment that would be affected by the
220 50 cycle current in Europe would be a turntable if it doesn't
have a switch built in for 50 cycles. The record would run faster.
It's best to check the manuals for your equipment. Most equipment
manufactured today is current selectable on the rear. In some cases
you may have to go directly to the power supply and change a wire or
two.
Just leave those damn high wattage hair dryers at home and buy one
over there.
Sam Goldwasser
> > As we are at the topic, does anybody know if rooms in decent european
> > (austrian in my specific case) hotels have (120v/60hz) outlets for hair dryer
> > brought with by american travelers? And can I use those outlets to charge
> > my (american) camcorder batteries?
> You are out of luck. I've been to Europe many times and have yet to
> see any 110 60Hz outlets anywhere. For one thing, they would be too
> expensive to install in all the rooms as they would need step down
> transformers and the 60 cycles would be 50 cycles.
> I strongly recommend against taking any high wattage heat generating
> hand appliance to Europe. They would only run on a heavy duty transformer
> which can be purchase in Europe but are pricey.
> The only piece of stereo equipment that would be affected by the
> 220 50 cycle current in Europe would be a turntable if it doesn't
> have a switch built in for 50 cycles. The record would run faster.
Assuming that you still use a turntable, many newer ones are DC servo
controlled so it would not matter.
What would be affected is the tuner since the radio stations are spaced
differently.
The 50 Hz may cause problems in units with power transformers where the
manufacturer was too cheap to design them with enough copper and iron
to not saturate at 50 Hz.
> It's best to check the manuals for your equipment. Most equipment
> manufactured today is current selectable on the rear. In some cases
> you may have to go directly to the power supply and change a wire or
> two.
> Just leave those damn high wattage hair dryers at home and buy one
> over there.
Actually, the heating devices are the ones you could take since there
are inexpensive diode/thyrister based convertors which will work
for resistive loads but should never be used for most electronics.
However, in general I agree with the above. It will be cheaper and
safer in the long run to just buy new equipment when you get there.
--- sam
Miguel Cruz
Rich Greene <rgr...@cyberquest.com> wrote:
>> As we are at the topic, does anybody know if rooms in decent european
>> (austrian in my specific case) hotels have (120v/60hz) outlets for hair dryer
>> brought with by american travelers? And can I use those outlets to charge
>> my (american) camcorder batteries?
>
>You are out of luck. I've been to Europe many times and have yet to
>see any 110 60Hz outlets anywhere. For one thing, they would be too
>expensive to install in all the rooms as they would need step down
>transformers and the 60 cycles would be 50 cycles.
That's interesting as I've seen them in many youth hostels and all hotels
throughout Europe. In the bathroom.
They aren't actually step-down transformers, just resistors that cut down
the voltage. You can use them for shaving and probably hair drying (though
I'm not sure) but I really wouldn't recommend charging camcorder batteries
that way. Certainly don't plug any electronics in.
However your camcorder charger is probably 220v-ready anyway. If not, if it
has a power cube thing, you could just buy a 220v version in Europe for
$10-$15.
miguel
Sam Goldwasser
<snip>
> They aren't actually step-down transformers, just resistors that cut down
> the voltage. You can use them for shaving and probably hair drying (though
> I'm not sure) but I really wouldn't recommend charging camcorder batteries
> that way. Certainly don't plug any electronics in.
They use diodes and/or thyristers to provide the proper power to resistive
devices. If they contained resistors, then the little cube would be as hot
as your toaster as it would need to dissipate the same power as the load.
As stated, do not plug any electronics into one of these.
--- sam
Andreas Schulz RIT14
>>> As we are at the topic, does anybody know if rooms in decent european
>>> (austrian in my specific case) hotels have (120v/60hz) outlets for hair dryer
>>> brought with by american travelers? And can I use those outlets to charge
>>> my (american) camcorder batteries?
Haven't heard of any yet (do you know any American hotels with 220V/50Hz
outlets, just of curiosity?). You'll quite easy find European hairdryers
in bathrooms of better hotels instead.
>Rich Greene <rgr...@cyberquest.com> replied:
>>You are out of luck. I've .. yet to see any 110 60Hz outlets anywhere.
(Miguel Cruz) replied to Rich:
>That's interesting as I've seen them in many youth hostels and all hotels
>throughout Europe. In the bathroom.
>
>They aren't actually step-down transformers, just resistors that cut down
>the voltage. You can use them for shaving and probably hair drying (though
>I'm not sure) but I really wouldn't recommend charging camcorder batteries
>that way. Certainly don't plug any electronics in.
Oh no! These aren't step down, but just decoupling transformers to
prevent you from an electrical shock when shaving in the tub; usually
with a badge saying 'For shavers only'. With a hair dryer, you're very
likely to blow such a thing. I would not mind plugging in any electronic
device up to a few Watts, but it will not help you to 120V.
>However your camcorder charger is probably 220v-ready anyway.
I agree; most camcorder chargers have switching supplies and will
accept almost anything from 100 to 240 V, 50 to 60 Hz (check your
label).
---
Andreas...@erno.de DASA, Space Infrastructure, Bremen, Germany
Stephen Parry
Pierre Schirrer <schi...@montrouge.smr.slb.com> writes:
>
>Well, it is true that the stations are spaced differently in Europe (25kHz instead of 50kHz), but there are not many that are spaced that close.
>
>I'm using a JVC tuner bought in the US in France, it works just fine, didn't have any trouble at all (of course I bought a 220V to 110V transformer)
>
>I thought I just add my 2c...
>
>Pierre
Isn't the US vs European pre-emphasis / de-emphasis different too?
Stephen
Pierre Schirrer
>
> Assuming that you still use a turntable, many newer ones are DC servo
> controlled so it would not matter.
>
> What would be affected is the tuner since the radio stations are spaced
> differently.
>
Well, it is true that the stations are spaced differently in Europe (25kHz instead of 50kHz), but there are not many that are spaced that close.
Dale Shuttleworth
Sam Goldwasser (s...@colossus.stdavids.picker.com) wrote:
: In article <mncD64...@netcom.com> m...@netcom.com (Miguel Cruz) writes:
: <snip>
: > They aren't actually step-down transformers, just resistors that cut down
: > the voltage. You can use them for shaving and probably hair drying (though
: > I'm not sure) but I really wouldn't recommend charging camcorder batteries
: > that way. Certainly don't plug any electronics in.
: They use diodes and/or thyristers to provide the proper power to resistive
: devices. If they contained resistors, then the little cube would be as hot
: as your toaster as it would need to dissipate the same power as the load.
They are probably just an auto-transformer, although they may be isolating
if they are intended to be used in bathrooms and the like. They are not
designed for heavy loads (more than 20W?) so whilst suitable for shavers,
they are certainly not suitable for hair dryers!
: As stated, do not plug any electronics into one of these.
Providing your electronics doesn't mind the frequency difference and
doesn't consume much power, they should be fine.
Dale.
--
******************************************************************************
* Dale Shuttleworth *
* Email: da...@giskard.demon.co.uk *
******************************************************************************
Arnim Littek
that consumes a good deal of power, and the 60 Hz transformer is running
near its limits, a 50 Hz application may well need more iron in the
transformer. This implies a linear power supply and a few other things,
but it does make a difference.
FWIW.
Arnim.
--
Arnim Littek ar...@actrix.gen.nz
Actrix Networks Ltd. fax +64-4-499-1130
uucp/SLIP/PPP/BBS/shell accounts tel +64-4-499-1122
Ian Robert Walker
da...@giskard.demon.co.uk "Dale Shuttleworth" writes:
> Sam Goldwasser (s...@colossus.stdavids.picker.com) wrote:
> : In article <mncD64...@netcom.com> m...@netcom.com (Miguel Cruz) writes:
>
> : <snip>
>
> : > They aren't actually step-down transformers, just resistors that cut down
> : > the voltage. You can use them for shaving and probably hair drying (though> : > I'm not sure) but I really wouldn't recommend charging camcorder batteries> : > that way. Certainly don't plug any electronics in.
>
> : They use diodes and/or thyristers to provide the proper power to resistive
> : devices. If they contained resistors, then the little cube would be as hot
> : as your toaster as it would need to dissipate the same power as the load.
>
> They are probably just an auto-transformer, although they may be isolating
> if they are intended to be used in bathrooms and the like. They are not
> designed for heavy loads (more than 20W?) so whilst suitable for shavers,
> they are certainly not suitable for hair dryers!
>
> : As stated, do not plug any electronics into one of these.
>
> Providing your electronics doesn't mind the frequency difference and
> doesn't consume much power, they should be fine.
>
I have missed the begining of this. If the discusion is about adaptors for
running 110V shavers on 220-240V, many of the adaptors use a single diode.
Since shavers often use a dc moter and an internal bridge rec adding a series
diode blocks one half of ac and halves the avarge voltage after the bridge rec.
Do NOT connect any equipment that uses a mains transformer to such an adaptor,
it will get hot, the output of the transformer will be low, and if it is high
power equipment it will blow the thermal fuse inside the adaptor.
--Ian G8ILZ
Michael Bender
I've seen two different types - one is a transformer and is designed to
handle low-wattage loads, and the ohter is a TRIAC/SCR that is designed to
handle high-wattage, mostly resistive loads (irons, heaters, etc...).
When I lived in Belgium, we had large (1.5 - 3KW) autotransformers that we
used for things like our US fridge and other US appliances such as stereo
equipment and kitchen appliances. These monsters weighed about 40 pounds or
so, and would sometimes trip the breaker if you plugged them in, even without
a load on them.
We also had part of our house wierd for 120V using a large (20KW I think)
transformer in the garage that was always connected.
mike
--
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