Origin of the name "BNC" connector
Rick Karlquist
it was MIT Rad Lab whose names started with N and C, and Mr. N invented
the type N connector and Mr. C invented the type C connector and they both
worked on the BNC/TNC series. (The B means bayonet and T means threaded).
Does anyone out there remember the full name of Mr. N and Mr. C?
Was Mr. N named Nichols? Can anyone give more accurate info on this?
Rick Karlquist
HP Santa Clara
rkarlqu%hps...@hplabs.hp.com
Charley Kline
> it was MIT Rad Lab whose names started with N and C, and Mr. N invented
> the type N connector and Mr. C invented the type C connector and they both
> worked on the BNC/TNC series. (The B means bayonet and T means threaded).
> Does anyone out there remember the full name of Mr. N and Mr. C?
> Was Mr. N named Nichols? Can anyone give more accurate info on this?
The little light on the dimmer board at the theater I work at has a flexible
stalk which plugs into a BNC connector on the board. One of the actors, a
physics grad student here, was standing behind me when I was installing the
board, and I made some comment about "Neat, they used a BNC connector for
this," and he said "Yup. Berkeley Nuclear Corporation." And I said "oh is
that what that stands for?" And he said "Absolutely."
Take it for what it's worth.
-----
Charley Kline, University of Illinois Computing Services
kl...@tuna.cso.uiuc.edu
{uunet,seismo,pur-ee,convex}!uiucdcs!uiucuxc!kline
"Flaring high or flaring early makes the little prop tips curly."
Jim Cathey
>According to connector folklore, there were two guys at Bell Labs or maybe
>it was MIT Rad Lab whose names started with N and C, and Mr. N invented
>the type N connector and Mr. C invented the type C connector and they both
>worked on the BNC/TNC series. (The B means bayonet and T means threaded).
Around here a TNC connector is a BNC with _two_ center pins (Twin NC?). We
of course are not necessarily right in calling them this. If I had to guess
I would say BNC meant 'BayoNet Coaxial', and that TNC was the Twin, or Twisted
version of same. Any takers? Howabout someone with accurate information?
+----------------+
! II CCCCCC ! Jim Cathey
! II SSSSCC ! ISC Systems Corp.
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! IISSSS CC ! UUCP: uunet!iscuva!jimc
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+----------------+
"With excitement like this, who is needing enemas?"
Forrest Cook
>Does anyone out there remember the full name of Mr. N and Mr. C?
my 2 (10) bits:
I once heard that BNC was an acronym for "baby Nelson connector", and was a
small version of a Nelson connector, whatever that is. This is probably
incorrect, as the B=bayonet and T=threaded argument seems quite logical.
Perhaps N=Nelson.
^ Forrest Cook (The preceding comments were my Opinions) ^
/|\ co...@stout.ucar.edu /|\
/|\ {husc6 | rutgers | ames | gatech}!ncar!stout!cook /|\
/|\ {uunet | ucbvax | allegra | cbosgd}!nbires!ncar!stout!cook /|\
Rob Warnock
writes:
>board, and I made some comment about "Neat, they used a BNC connector for
>this," and he said "Yup. Berkeley Nuclear Corporation." And I said "oh is that
>what that stands for?" And he said "Absolutely." Take it for what it's worth.
Almost. Try "Berkeley Nucleonics Corporation". They still exist, are still
in Berkeley, CA, and make *extremely* high-precision pulse generators, pulse
gates, delay lines, and the like, as needed for doing high-energy physics.
Well... as needed for detecting the *results* of doing high-energy physics...
;-} ;-}
Rob Warnock
Systems Architecture Consultant
UUCP: {amdcad,fortune,sun}!redwood!rpw3
ATTmail: !rpw3
DDD: (415)572-2607
USPS: 627 26th Ave, San Mateo, CA 94403
Bill Chiarchiaro
The BNC and type N connector were both developed during World War II.
A friend who restores old radios has seen both styles of connectors on
military equipment from 1944/1945. I think this rules out Berkeley
Nucleonics; the earliest product of theirs of which I know dates from
the late 1950s.
According to the Hewlett-Packard "1979-80 Coaxial & Waveguide Catalog
and Microwave Measurement Handbook," N stood for "Navy" and BNC stood
for "Bayonet Navy Connector." The Handbook also states that TNC stood
for "Threaded Navy Connector," APC for "Amphenol Precision Connector,"
GR for "General Radio," SMA for "Sub-Miniature C," and SMC for
"Sub-Miniature C."
In the September 1986 issue of Ham Radio magazine, Joe Reisert stated
that the N connector was designed by Paul Neill of Bell Labs. I think
Reisert said that the design was created during the 1940s. He also
said that the "C" of BNC stood for Carl Concelman
(Bayonet-Neill-Concelman). Reisert cited "A Designer's Guide to RF
Connector Selection" by Allen Nemetz in the September/October 1980
issue of rf design magazine. I have not seen that article.
Both of the above claims have a common element in the naming of the N
and BNC connectors ("Navy" or "Neill"). I could believe that they had
a common origin as a male N will mate with a female BNC.
The common usage of "TNC" does not refer to a two-pin BNC. There are
connectors for twinaxial cable that look very similar to BNCs, except
that they have two pins (actually one pin and one socket) side-by-side
and they are a pain in the butt to use. There is another style of
twinax connector that has one pin and two concentric shells and is
much easier to make mate. "TNC" refers to a connector that is similar
in size to a BNC, but has a threaded (rather than bayonet locking)
outer shell. It is a very nice connector to use with small coax.
Both of the above naming schemes ("Navy Connector" or "Neill and
Concelman") would nicely support the "T" standing for "threaded."
Happy Connecting,
Bill Chiarchiaro
N1CPK
w...@xn.ll.mit.edu
Dave Kucharczyk
>Around here a TNC connector is a BNC with _two_ center pins (Twin NC?). We
>of course are not necessarily right in calling them this. If I had to guess
>I would say BNC meant 'BayoNet Coaxial', and that TNC was the Twin, or Twisted
>version of same. Any takers? Howabout someone with accurate information?
Acording to the Amphenol catalog the connectors you are refering to
are simply called 'Twin' coaxial connectors. They come in different types
including UHF and BNC style. BNC connectors are identical to TNC except
for the BNC uses 'a two stud bayonet lock coupling' while a TNC has
'a 7/16 - 28 threaded coupling'. also the 'Twin' type connectors have
a characteristic impedance of 78 or 90 ohms while 'BNC/TNC' have
a 50 ohm impedance. All electrical specs between the 'TNC' and 'BNC'
are identical. (excluding cable sizes and other obvious differences of
course).
dave
Card 54...
>> According to connector folklore, there were two guys at Bell Labs or maybe
>> it was MIT Rad Lab whose names started with N and C, and Mr. N invented
>
> this," and he said "Yup. Berkeley Nuclear Corporation." And I said "oh is
A while back, I was talking to a sales engineer at Berkely Nucleonics, and he
told me that the BNC is a "Baby N Connector", a smaller version of the original
larger coaxial connectors.
Let's see how many different stories we can collect... :-)
--
David T. Punia Voice: 802-656-1915 Compu$erve: 72617,1211
Univ. of Vermont CSEE dept UUCPathalias --> pu...@uvm-gen.uucp
Burlington, VT 05401-0156 CS/INTERNET ---> pu...@uvm.edu
UUCPath --> ...!{princeton,harvard,decvax,dartvax,?}!uunet!uvm-gen!punia
Mark David Kakatsch
less) full s-100 system for approx. $65. The CPU board is an "Ithaca Audio"
Z-80 board, and it won't be too hard to fix up...However, my problem is a few
chips on the board. From the schematics, you can tell that they are buffer
chips such as the 74LS245, or '374, albeit they have only 16 pins. Their part
numbers are 8T97 and 8T98. Does anybody know if they are still produced, and if
so, where they are available? Thanks much...
Mark
Larry Jones
> From the schematics, you can tell that they are buffer
> chips such as the 74LS245, or '374, albeit they have only 16 pins. Their part
> numbers are 8T97 and 8T98. Does anybody know if they are still produced, and if
> so, where they are available? Thanks much...
Ah, yes, I remember them well. They're hex tri-state buffers --
the 8T97 is non-inverting and the 8T98 is inverting. I don't
know if you can still get them or not, but you might have better
luck looking for 8097 and 8098 which are equivalents from another
manufacturer. I have pin-outs and specs if that would be of any
use and I may even have some in the old junk box, but I'd have to
look.
----
Larry Jones UUCP: uunet!sdrc!scjones
SDRC scj...@sdrc.UU.NET
2000 Eastman Dr. BIX: ltl
Milford, OH 45150 AT&T: (513) 576-2070
"When all else fails, read the directions."
Greg Bell
>less) full s-100 system for approx. $65. The CPU board is an "Ithaca Audio"
>so, where they are available? Thanks much...
>
Jameco lists both of those (8T97 and 8T98) as Signetics chips. They are
described as "High Speed Tri-State Hex Buffer" for $.75 and "High Speed
Tri-State Hex Inverter" for $.75 (respectively).
Greg Bell_________________________________________________________
Hardware hacker |
Electronics hobbyist | UUCP: uunet!serene!pnet12!gbell
EE major at UC San Diego |
Larry Jones
Further research reveals that they are also equivalent to the
74367 and 74368 which you should have no trouble locating.
(I KNEW those 10 year old IC Masters would come in handy some
day!)
Stephen G. Tell
front panel board that I bought at a flea market. I found that Ithaca
was still in business in some form or other, and was able to get a complete
manual for the thing after signing a non-disclosure agreement. If you
can't find them, let me know and I'll try to dig up the address, which may
take a while since the docs are home in NJ and I'm at school here in NC.
As for the chips, posssibly they are 8000 series TTL? (81LS97, 81LS98) or
somthing?
some of the mail-order companies still carry these; Jameco used to.
Looking at their catalog and my 1981 Natioal Semiconductor databook; they
both list an 81LS95 through '98, but they're 20-pin
devices. My Ithaca board used some chips in this series; they turned
out to be very like 74LS244's with different pinouts. I got them someplace;
probably Jameco but I don't remember.
My National databook lists a whole slew of TTL stuff with 8000 series numbers.
Your best bet for definitive info on what the chips are is a good collection of
databooks. There are lots of chips our there that we've never heard of.
--
Steve Tell: senior, Duke University school of Engineering (please hire me).
Former Chief Engineer, Cable 13 / Duke Union Community Television.
s...@dukeac.ac.duke.edu; !mcnc!ecsgate!dukeac!sgt
Mark David Kakatsch
8T97 and 8T98. It seems that Jameco STILL carries them, and the 'LS367-368, so
I'm about to order a small supply of those before they run out...(You know how
fast those get taken....:-) ) Thanks again!
Mark
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ Things are not what | Albert Einstein got his name after he got smashed +
+ they appear to be...| from drinking only one stien of beer. Hence; Albert +
+______________________| EinStien. +
+ +
+ Mark D. Kakatsch ---> par...@csd4.milw.wisc.edu +
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
John - DeBert
(Mark David Kakatsch) writes,
The 8T97 and 8T98 are buffer devices for bus i/o. They are still being made
and can be had from various electronics parts suppliers such as Jameco or
JDR Microdevices. Offhand, I don't recall which does what exactly. I believe
that they are tristate devices.
twhe...@hpbsla.hp.com
Mark
----------
koontz@oregon
> Hello. At a recent SwapFest here in the milwaukee area, I picked up a (more
or
> less) full s-100 system for approx. $65. The CPU board is an "Ithaca Audio"
> Z-80 board, and it won't be too hard to fix up...However, my problem is a
> few chips on the board. From the schematics, you can tell that they are
> buffer
> part numbers are 8T97 and 8T98. Does anybody know if they are still
produced, and if
> so, where they are available? Thanks much...
>
> Mark
Signetics parts
8T97 may be replaced with a 74366
8T98 may be replaced with a 74368
Check for differences in propagation and tristate times, probably is a don't
care.
Ciciora; Steven joseph
>In article <6...@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, par...@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Mark David Kakatsch) writes:
>
>Ah, yes, I remember them well. They're hex tri-state buffers --
>the 8T97 is non-inverting and the 8T98 is inverting. I don't
>know if you can still get them or not, but you might have better
>luck looking for 8097 and 8098 which are equivalents from another
>manufacturer. I have pin-outs and specs if that would be of any
>use and I may even have some in the old junk box, but I'd have to
>look.
>
so I'm not sure. If I remember right, the 8T97 is the same pin -out
of a 74ls367. I believe I even replaced the 8T97 w/ 74ls367 in an old
apple ][ for a freind years back. Don't know about loading, current
output, speed, etc.
Steven Ciciora
Joe Panfil
I don't know if you really want to know what BNC stands for, or if this is
supposed to be a continuing joke.
But, I do know that BNC stands for "Bayonet Nut Connector".
Just like TNC stands for "Threaded Nut Connector".
Alan Lorimer
Corporation), I was involved in building TV studios and Radio Stations.
Having spent the odd afternoon inserting several hundreds of these
things I became convinced that BNC stood for Bloody Nasty Connector.:-)
Alan
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Alan G. Lorimer, Strathclyde University, 26 Richmond Street, Glasgow G1 1XH.
UUCP: ...!uunet!mcvax!ukc!strath-cs!al DARPA: al%cs.strath.ac.uk@ucl-cs
JANET: a...@uk.ac.strath.cs
Brian K. Shiratsuki
>>According to connector folklore, there were two guys at Bell Labs or maybe
>>it was MIT Rad Lab whose names started with N and C, and Mr. N invented
>>the type N connector and Mr. C invented the type C connector and they both
>>worked on the BNC/TNC series. (The B means bayonet and T means threaded).
i believe the B and T parts. however, i think the N stands for navy
(the connectors are somewhat water resistant), and the C stands for
connector. which makes ``BNC connector'' redundant.
brian
Adrian Hurt
> In a former incarnation when working for the BBC (British Broadcasting
> Corporation), I was involved in building TV studios and Radio Stations.
> Having spent the odd afternoon inserting several hundreds of these
> things I became convinced that BNC stood for Bloody Nasty Connector.:-)
that description!
I had to fit "N"-type connectors onto an Ethernet cable on one occasion. (Well,
several occasions, but only one is relevant here.) We had ordered a crimp tool
with which to do this; fortunately we hadn't been invoiced. Now Ethernet being
very sensitive, I did a practise run on a small piece of spare cable first to
get the hang of the new tool, and ran into a small problem. The tool would not
come off! It could slide along the cable, but couldn't open enough to get over
the connector. We subsequently found a source of "N" connectors which could be
soldered on, and sent the tool, which would have cost some $100, back.
--
"Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott
Adrian Hurt | JANET: adr...@uk.ac.hw.cs
UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian | ARPA: adr...@cs.hw.ac.uk
Paul D. Guthrie
BNC = Baby N Connector.
TNC = Threaded N Connector.
--paul
--
Paul Guthrie
iexplode!pdg
Marshall Jose
>
>BNC = Baby N Connector.
>TNC = Threaded N Connector.
Actually, I had always assumed the "B" in "BNC" stood for "bayonet",
referring to the fastening method.
You realize, of course, that this discussion probably falls under
the "ephemera" category. :-)
Marshall Jose WA3VPZ
m...@aplvax.jhuapl.edu || ...mimsy!aplcen!aplvax!mjj
Norm Strong
}TNC = Threaded N Connector.
WRONG! WRONG!
BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
--
Norm (str...@tc.fluke.com)
Larry Lippman
> }BNC = Baby N Connector.
> }TNC = Threaded N Connector.
>
> WRONG! WRONG!
>
> BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
> TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
I'm not certain that anyone posting on this topic has been correct.
I have always had a keen interest in the history of technology,
and have a large personal collection of books, periodicals and catalogs,
many of which pertain to the development of electrical devices, electronics
and communication. The controversy and uncertainty in this discussion has
bothered me, so over the course of the past week I spent almost 2 hours
trying to find a definitive answer - but to no avail.
I can find no references whatsoever to resolve this issue. I can,
however, reach the following conclusions:
1. The BNC was definitely not developed by Western Electric (WECO).
WECO was a major player in the development of radar during
World War II. I have scanned through several volumes published
by Bell Labs which relates their history of science and technology.
I have looked through some BSP sections, and the BNC was always
a KS-coded connector - so WECO didn't make it. Plus, the BNC was
not WECO's "style".
2. I do not believe that the BNC was developed until the late 1940's -
well after World War II. I have a full set of the famous MIT
Rad Lab series, and a brief look in some applicable volumes
shows no BNC connector references. Type N, yes, and plenty
of PL-259 and SO-239, plus other connectors (ever a strange
swivel-type coax connector of British deisgn used on the first
airborne radar set, the ASV) - but no BNC.. I have looked though
some army and navy technical manuals (including a few rather
comprehensive books on communication system engineering) from
World War II and can find no references to the BNC nor any
photographs of apparatus where the connector is evident.
3. I picked about a dozen issues of "Electronics" magazine from
1945 and 1946 (heavy discussion about military electronics,
since the war was won or about to be won), and can find no
advertisements or photographs which depict the BNC.
4. I have some copies of the Radio Master from 1942 and 1945, and
looked at the connector sections in detail. Lots of military
connectors (like MS-series), but no BNC. I did notice that
Cannon had a number of connectors which used a 1, 2 or 3 letter
part number; some like the WK-series still exist, other weird
styles have long disappeared. The only possible theory that
I can offer - and this is a pure guess - is that the BNC is
Cannon's original part number.
5. I also looked at some catalogs of major coaxial connector and
component vendors (like Cannon, Microdot, H-P, Weinschel, etc.)
to see if they might have some historical comment - but no luck.
I am really stumped. It seems like the BNC just appeared out of
nowhere sometime during the late 1940's.
<> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York
<> UUCP: {allegra|ames|boulder|decvax|rutgers|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry
<> VOICE: 716/688-1231 {att|hplabs|mtune|utzoo|uunet}!/
<> FAX: 716/741-9635 {G1,G2,G3 modes} "Have you hugged your cat today?"
Jim Stewart
>In article <69...@fluke.COM>, str...@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong) writes:
>> }BNC = Baby N Connector.
>> }TNC = Threaded N Connector.
>> BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
>> TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
> I'm not certain that anyone posting on this topic has been correct.
I recall a TA at school saying it was British National Connector.
BUT, my memory is pretty fuzzy and the guy was a goof!
--
Jim Stewart, VE3SRJ
UUCP: {utzoo,uunet}!mnetor!jim
ARPA: jim%mneto...@uunet.uu.net
BELL: (416)475-8980
Munir Mallal
Munir Mallal
Tom Gardner
> I recall a TA at school saying it [BNC] was British National Connector.
> BUT, my memory is pretty fuzzy and the guy was a goof!
Surely you mean Bavarian Normal Connektor...
tom gardner
P.S. what does BMW stand for?
No no no NOOO: don't email me or post a reply. Please.
Norm Strong
}> }BNC = Baby N Connector.
}> }TNC = Threaded N Connector.
}>
}> WRONG! WRONG!
}>
}> BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
}> TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
}
} I'm not certain that anyone posting on this topic has been correct.
I received the above info from the presidents of 2 companies that make their
living manufacturing BNC and TNC connectors. If you can't believe them, who
can you believe?
--
Norm (str...@tc.fluke.com)
Doug Faunt
The September '86 copy of Ham Radio has column called VHF/UHF World,
written by Joe Reisert, which claims that BNC is derived from the names of
its developers, Neil and Concelman, hence B(ayonet) N(eill) C(oncelman.)
He says that Neil invented the N connector, and Concelman developed
the C connector. He references this information to an article in rf
design, Sept/Oct 1980, page 18, titled "A designers Gudie to RF
Connector Selection" by Allen Nemetz.
Larry Lippman
> }> }BNC = Baby N Connector.
> }> }TNC = Threaded N Connector.
> }>
> }> TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
> }
> } I'm not certain that anyone posting on this topic has been correct.
>
> I received the above info from the presidents of 2 companies that make their
> living manufacturing BNC and TNC connectors. If you can't believe them, who
> can you believe?
That's a good question - I don't know who to believe! Consider the
following from an article which appeared after yours:
In article <1247065...@MATHOM.CISCO.COM> use...@cslb.CSL.SRI.COM writes:
$> The September '86 copy of Ham Radio has column called VHF/UHF World,
$> written by Joe Reisert, which claims that BNC is derived from the names of
$> its developers, Neil and Concelman, hence B(ayonet) N(eill) C(oncelman.)
$> He says that Neil invented the N connector, and Concelman developed
$> the C connector. He references this information to an article in rf
$> design, Sept/Oct 1980, page 18, titled "A designers Gudie to RF
$> Connector Selection" by Allen Nemetz.
What thoroughly perplexes me is that I cannot find any reference
to this issue in any seemingly applicable book, catalog or periodical
which I have so far examined (contemporary or historical, for that matter).
I am going to try and obtain a copy of the above referenced article, though.
Larry Lippman
Regarding this whole issue, shortly after I posted the referenced
article, I decided to again browse through my organization's library, and
I have now found a reference: the 1979-1980 Hewlett-Packard "Coaxial and
Waveguide Catalog", which states on page 91:
"The BNC (Bayonet Navy Connector) connector was originally designed
for the military during World War II." [additional text deleted].
"The TNC (Threaded Navy Connector) connector is merely a threaded
BNC." [additional text deleted].
I place great value on the above information coming from a source
such as H-P.
This information confirms what str...@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
has posted. I apologize if I have doubted him, but with so many conflicting
definitions that were posted (from "Baby N" to "Berkley Nucleonics" to
claiming that the letters stood for people's initials), I simply did not
believe ANYONE until I could find a reference.
I am rather surprised that this connector originated during World War
II. I could find no reference to it in the MIT Rad Lab series. While
I did not check every Rad Lab volume, I did check those which seemed
appropriate. This seems to be an unusual omission. Just about EVERYTHING
pertaining to radar and UHF that was developed during World War II is
discussed or illustrated somewhere in the Rad Lab volumes.
Incidentaly, the H-P catalog also says that the "N" connector
stands for "Navy". Does that mean that the "C" connector (a large
BNC-type) stands for Coast Guard? :-)
Douglas Otto
|In article <11...@ihlpa.ATT.COM> p...@ihlpa.UUCP (Paul D. Guthrie) writes:
|}BNC = Baby N Connector.
|}TNC = Threaded N Connector.
|WRONG! WRONG!
|BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
|TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
To throw another data point into this discussion, the latest issue
of "TPT/Networking Management" magazine defines
BNC = Bayonet Neill Concelman
Make of this what you will.
--
UUCP:harvard-\ att--\ | Douglas Otto 608 271-3333 ext 2346
ucbvax!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!otto | Nicolet Instrument Corp.
rutgers--/ rolls--/ | 5225-1 Verona Rd
ames--/ decvax-/ | Madison, Wis 53711-0508
Jeff Winslow
>}BNC = Baby N Connector.
>}TNC = Threaded N Connector.
>WRONG! WRONG!
>BNC = Bayonet Navy Connector
>TNC = Threaded Navy Connector
No, wait... You're all right, every one of you.
Is that fair?
Jeff Winslow