8051 vs 68HC11
Mike Diack
ler , there's two major options - Signetics 8051 based machines (and
a dozen derivatives) and the Moto 68HC family. Havind only used the
8051 based devices , i sometimes wonder if i'm missing out on something
by not trying the Moto chips - is it a Mazda vs Toyota type situation
(much the same) or is there more to it - i would like to see opinions
of people who have used BOTH devices , and find where the relative strengths
lie.
thanks , Mike.
John De Armond
You got it. Actually it's more like a Ford Vs Chevy thang. More religious
fervor in those two camps. Whichever chip you learn to use first is
usually the one you find easiest. Motorola gives away some meocre development
tools. Tools of equal or better quality are available free or for trivial
cost from others. Intel is a shit company but so is Motorola (first
fortune 100 company to do random without-cause drug testing.) so that's
a wash. Both families are available from second sources. In both cases
the second sources are better than the real thing. Since development
tools are easily available for both families, the decision of what
chip to use depends (surprise!) on what features you need. I've become
quite fond of the 8051 family primarily because of the Dallas
Semiconductors DS5000.
John
--
John De Armond, WD4OQC | If speed kills, I musta died and
Rapid Deployment System, Inc. | gone to heaven. UN-1261 forever!
Marietta, Ga |
j...@dixie.com |Need public access in Atl? Write me.
John Moore
In article <53139.12...@kcbbs.gen.nz> Mike_...@kcbbs.gen.nz (Mike Diack) writes:
]It seems that if one wishes to do invent something using an 8 bit microcontrol
]ler , there's two major options - Signetics 8051 based machines (and
]a dozen derivatives) and the Moto 68HC family. Havind only used the
]8051 based devices , i sometimes wonder if i'm missing out on something
]by not trying the Moto chips - is it a Mazda vs Toyota type situation
](much the same) or is there more to it - i would like to see opinions
]of people who have used BOTH devices , and find where the relative strengths
]lie.
Let me comment that there are also the 68HC05 series from Moto,
and the 8096 series (all right, it's really 16 bit, but can run with
an 8 bit bus) from Intel.
I am not that familiar with the 8051 (although I have used the 8048, which is
a predecessor, and which I hated!). However, let me tell you a few good
things about the Moto family:
-you can get in circuit emulators for only $500 from Motorola. This
is well worth it for serious development.
-Moto has a BBS with lots of goodies on it for development. It's
number is 512-891-3733.
-The Moto instruction set is very simple and consistent (either HC05 or HC11)
-The Moto EPROM versions are relatively cheap ($15 or there abouts for
HC05)
The 8096 series is pretty neat, because it is a full 16 bit architecture,
with a field selectable 8 bit mode. It has 10 bit ADC's (vs 8 bit on the
Moto). It has 256 registers - sort of a RISC-like setup. It is fast.
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
jo...@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!jo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
- - "May you have the wealth of a Republican, and the sexual prowess - -
- - of a Democrat." - Johnny Carson's joke writers
John Moore
In article <+=ak...@dixie.com> j...@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
[
]You got it. Actually it's more like a Ford Vs Chevy thang. More religious
]fervor in those two camps. Whichever chip you learn to use first is
I think this is true, except for the 8048 which is truly a dog because the
short jumps are page relative rather than PC relative.
>usually the one you find easiest. Motorola gives away some meocre development
>tools. Tools of equal or better quality are available free or for trivial
>cost from others. Intel is a shit company but so is Motorola (first
>fortune 100 company to do random without-cause drug testing.) so that's
>a wash. Both families are available from second sources. In both cases
>the second sources are better than the real thing. Since development
I have seen no reason to believe that Moto is a "shit company." I am
opposed to drug testing, but Moto is a major federal contractor and
has no choice in the matter. As a customer of Motorola, I have found
that support is good - access to specialists is good, pricing is
good, availability is fair to good, and the $500 ICE is quite good and
unbelievably low priced. I have also had no problem with Intel, although
I dislike their 8086 architecture and the incredible problems its
segmented architecture and its 1024K addressing limit have caused.
As far as second sources, what makes you think that they are "better?"
Pricing? Availability? Exhaustive testing?
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
jo...@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!jo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
- - Comment too controversial for management - Deleted :-) -
- - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
Kent Boortz
... Both families are available from second sources. In both cases
the second sources are better than the real thing. Since development
tools are easily available for both families, the decision of what
chip to use depends (surprise!) on what features you need. I've become
quite fond of the 8051 family primarily because of the Dallas
Semiconductors DS5000.
Who second source 68HC11 and in what way do they differ, speed, EEPROM ports
etc. The reasons I have choosen a 8051 in my current project is that I needed
fast serial port speed and that Motorola was the only source I could find
for 68HC11.
What is DS5000?
Is there a table anywere of microcontrollers and their price, sources,
features, power consumtion, speed etc?
/kgb
--
Kent Boortz
boo...@sics.se
Sakari Aaltonen
choice, as it's also made by - at least - Signetics/Philips/Valvo, AMD,
and Siemens.
I don't know of a second source for the 68HC11; however, Hitachi is one for
the earlier, very similar 6801 series. The Hitachi parts are CMOS, and the
names are 63xx, not 68xx. An example: the Hitachi 63B03 is an 8MHz-clock
68B03 with six additional useful instructions.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sakari Aaltonen Helsinki University of Technology
Email: sak...@cs.hut.fi
--- You can't keep a Finn down without him getting all red in the face ----
Mark Zenier
One basic difference is the philosophy of both Intel and Motorola.
Intel always tried to pack the most transistors and performance into a
given amount of real estate without much consideration for the
brain damage the results cause to the programmers.
Motorola makes stuff that's easier to use but lagged behind in the
performance race. (Having read a writeup of the 68hc16, this
doesn't seem to hold for the future. Talk about Baroque.)
The 8051 has the three address space architecture which allows
pipelining so that instructions are fast. As long as you have
enough scratchpad registers. The 6800->6801->68hc11 architecture
(heavily influenced by the PDP-11) is a single address space
which limits the exection to what the one bus can transfer at a time.
(But this also allows running programs out of the on-chip ram, used to
bootstrap code into the onboard EEPROM or EPROM or other neat hacks.)
But if your 8051 application requires more than 128 (or 256) bytes
you get stuck using the #$%^& data pointer, where the 68hc11 can
directly address its entire address space. So the 68hc11 has a
softer threshold on when performance takes a hit. Writing a
decent compiler would be easier, too.
About 7 or 8 years back, a friend benchmarked the 68b03 (close enough)
vs the 8051. For the motor control application, the 8051 was twice as
fast. But he used the z8 because, at the clock rates available then,
it was even faster.
But if you're pushing the limits on either chip, it's time to
look as the 8096 family, the 'Hc16, or one of the high integration
68000's. Or a bunch of other options.
Mark Zenier ma...@ssc.wa.com
John De Armond
>Keywords:
[me]
>]You got it. Actually it's more like a Ford Vs Chevy thang. More religious
>]fervor in those two camps.
>I have seen no reason to believe that Moto is a "shit company." I am
>opposed to drug testing, but Moto is a major federal contractor and
>has no choice in the matter.
See? Told you there were religious underpinnings about. John, speak only
of what you know. First off, the DrugFree Workplace Act does NOT
require drug testing. It only requires an anti drug company policy.
Thousands of federal contractors have resisted federal pressure
to institute drug testing. ONLY federal work requiring a secret
clearance requires drug screening. As other companies are proving,
these people can be segregated and tested while the rest of the
company continues to respect personal rights. Second, Motorola
started the company wide, random, without-cause testing long
before the government required it even for clearances and was
the first such US corporation to do so. Not only did Motorola
do this, they are very proud of their program.
At the end of this posting I'm including a copy of a "spin control"
document used during midlevel management brainwashing, er, drug
testing training. I think it will send shivers through the bones
of anyone who values personal privacy and freedom. Be warned,
it is a long document.
>As far as second sources, what makes you think that they are "better?"
>Pricing? Availability? Exhaustive testing?
Pricing, availability, features, not coming from Motorola. I'll say it
again. IMHO, Motorola is a shit company, I pity people who work there and
will not allow motorola parts in my company unless I have no choice.
Yes, I vote my concience with my pocketbook.
John
----------------------------
For anyone interested in the full scoop on the Motorola drug craze -
what the rules for their testing program are and so on - here is a
verbatim copy of the manager's briefing book. The few comments in
curly brackets are mine - everything else is straight from the book.
Watch out for the non-sequitors.
-----------
TO: Senior Managers
Site implementation teams
Addressing the issue of drug use in Motorola is not new. In addition
to our Employee Assistance Program, we have "applicant" and
"for-cause" testing policies in place.
We've talked at length to Motorolans at all levels of the company.
We've consulted with recognized experts throughout the U.S. And, we've
examined the drug-free programs of other companies, including those in
the defense community.
As a result of these discussions, we've put together a policy that
will enable all U.S. Motorolans to work in a drug-free environment.
On May 18, we will announce to all U.S. employees the new policy for a
drug-free work force.
Implementing this policy will likely be among the most challenging
tasks we've ever undertaken as a company. As senior managers and
implementers, I am looking to you to take hold of this policy and to
help manage this program in your respective organizations. Your role
is critical: To help insure that the policy is understood and
implemented fairly. Consider these potential employee questions:
* Why does Motorola have a drug-testing policy?
* How will individuals be selected for testing?
* What if I don't want to be tested?
* Is the test accurate?
* What if I test positive?
* Can I use my spouse's prescription drugs?
* Is the drug-testing policy legal?
This briefing book provides you with advance material. It will help
you begin thinking about implementation at your site, prepare you to
respond to employee questions and concerns, and give you a resource
for briefing your managers and supervisors.
I encourage you to review the contents of this briefing book and to
bring your comments and questions to the attention of your local
personnel manager.
<squiggle>
George Fisher
MOTOROLA CONCERNS
1. Business Environment and Culture
Motorola is concerned about drug use in its business environment and
culture. Chief among these concerns is the impact of drugs on the
quality of our products and services. Quality depends on creative,
clear thinking, productive employees. Drugs change the way we feel,
think, decide, perform and perceive.
2. Customer, Stockholder and Employee Expectations
Attainment of increased global market share and total customer
satisfaction requires best-in-class people, products and work
environment. Customers, stockholders and employees who have a stake in
Motorola's performance stand to lose a great deal because of drug
use in the work force. By offering our customers, stockholders and
employees an environment free from the damage caused by drug use,
we're also giving ourselves a truly competitives advantage. Our
stockholders look to us for maximum productivity. That includes
employee profit sharers. We are also committed to comply with the
requirements of the Drug-Free Work Place Act of 1988, and for certain
segments of our company, the Department of Defense Drug-Free Work
Force regulations and the Department of Transportation regulations.
3. Safety, Security, and Health
Statistics tell us that workers who use drugs are involved in
accidents 3 to 4 times more often than other employees. The drug-using
employee costs U.S. industry $100 billion every year. For example,
drug users are late to work 3 times the norm, and are absent 3.6 times
the norm. Employees on drugs are 3 to 4 times more likely to be
injured on the job. They are accident prone 3.6 times the norm, and
use sick benefits 3 times the norm. Employees on drugs are 5 times
more likely to use Workers' Compensation.
4. Our Drug Experience
Motorolans have become increasingly aware of the growing use of drugs
on the job. They have expressed these concerns during focus group
sessions conducted at several Motorola sites during the past six
months. Our experience in applicant testing showed a drop from 9
percent positive tests when the program began in 1987 to a current
level of 2 percent. We have also had our Employee Assistance Program
in place since 1979. Event with these resources, we have to assume
that drug use affects between 4 and 10 percent of our work force.
5. Society's Problem is Ours
Surveys tell us that 10 to 23 percent of all U.S. workers use
dangerous drugs on the job. Our Policy Committee, comprising the CEO
and business and functional general management, believes that
society's problem is our problem and that industry can impact
society's drug problem. The U.S. comprises 6% of the world's
population, but consumes 60% of the world's illegal drugs. The
drop-out rate among ninth graders entering school today ranges
between 30-40%. Statistics tell us that today's "casual" drug users
are, in fact, financing the drug industry.
EMPLOYEE CONCERNS
Twenty focus groups were held between October 1989 and April 1990 in
Schaumburg, Plantation, Austin, Phoenix, and Boston. Approximately 400
Motorolans provided input to the question: "Should Motorola have a
policy for a drug-free work force?" Here are some reactions:
1. General Tone and Feeling
* A vast majority of those participating enthusiastically support the
idea of a Motorola policy for a drug-free workplace.
* Some individuals struggle with the invasion of privacy issue in
drug testing.
* Many feel that such a policy is long overdue in Motorola. They can
support it because they believe it will heighten their feelings of
safety and security in the work place.
2. Selected Responses
"There is cocaine use in the chemical bays at our site."
"Our increased absenteeism is directly related to drug use."
"Mandatory testing would be an invasion of my privacy. I don't like
it!"
"We need to minimize the illegal use of prescription drugs."
"About 20-30% of my department is using drugs."
"Why would Motorola ask me to prove my loyalty?"
"We need to get tougher on drug dealing and gang-related activity"
"I support drug-free, but I don't want to have to prove my innocence."
"Some lower-paid employees have to 'deal drugs' in order to 'use
drugs'"
"Three employees in our department were testing and all were dirty."
"One professional abandoned his family while selling and using drugs."
RATIONALE
1. Consistent With Motorola's Culture
Establishment of a drug-free work force policy is consistent with
Motorola's desired culture and in the best interest of Motorola and
Motorolans.
2. Must Have to Achieve Fundamental Objective
Attainment of increased global market share and total customer
satisfaction requires best-in-class people, products and work
environment.
3. Help Solve Society's Problem
Elimination of drugs in the work place and work force is essential to
help solve society's problems in dealing with drugs.
4. Enhance Safety, Security and Well-Being
Eliminating the possession and illegal use of drugs in the work place
and work force, and providing the opportunity for rehabilitation for
employees who use drugs, will enhance the safety, well-being and
productivity of all Motorolans.
5. Motorola Drug Experience
Motorola has experienced problems with drugs in the work place (as
have all major U.S. companies) and there is an employee perception
that drug use is an ongoing problem at Motorola and should be
eliminated.
6. Meet Government Regulations
Motorola will meet the requirements of the Drug-Free Work Place Act
and the regulations of all government agencies with which we do
business.
POLICY HIGHLIGHTS
1. Objective Is A Drug-Free Work Force
The objective of our policy is a drug-free work force and work place.
We will achieve this by eliminating the use of illegal drugs and the
abuse of controlled substances.
2. U.S. Employees
The new policy applies to all U.S. operations, including subsidiaries,
unless restricted by state or local laws. It also includes outside /
independent contractors and temporary employees.
3. Adds Universal Testing to Existing Policies
Motorola's policy for a drug-free work force expands its current drug
use policies to includes universal drug testing for U.S. employees. We
currently maintain policies covering "applicant" testing and "for
cause" testing. Universal testing is a logical next step.
4. Multi-Dimensional Approach
Motorola's policy provides a multi-dimensional approach to the drug
use issue, while meeting all federal and DoD regulations. The multiple
elements of our approach provide:
* _Education and Awareness_ through meetings, resources and training;
* _Rehabilitation_ through Motorola's Employee Assistance Program;
* _Prohibitions_ against the use, sale, possession and manufacture of
illegal drugs;
* _Universal Testing_ of U.S. Motorolans at least once every three
years;
* _Consequences_ for Motorolans who test positive.
POLICY VIOLATIONS
Motorola's policy for a drug-free work force specifically prohibits
the following:
* Manufacture, distribution, possession and use of illegal drugs and
the abuse of controlled substances;
* Refusal to authorize the collection of a sample or provide a urine
sample for testing;
* Failure to attend the Employee Assistance Program for consultation
and assessment after a verified first-time positive urine test;
* Failure to adhere to an agreed-upon Employee Assistance Program
action plan;
* Failure to comply with Motorola rules with regard to testing;
* Use of a medication / prescription prescribed in another person's
name;
* Storage of any illegal drug on company premises;
* Being under the influence of any illegal drug while on company
business;
* Testing positive for the use of illegal drugs or abuse of
controlled substances;
* Switching or adulterating any urine sample.
RANDOM SELECTION
Motorolans will be tested at least once every three years. The
selection process uses a non-biased computer selection program. This
is a formula which tells the computer how to select employees for the
drug test. It guarantees the integrity of the selection process. This
random-selection process is scheduled by collection point so that no
one area will have more tests than it can handle. Each day, the
computer selects employee numbers randomly from four pools:
1. Those yet to be tested;
2. Those tested who received a negative result;
3. Those who tested first-time positive who must retest at least
three times over the next 12 months;
4. Those who were no-shows for their previous scheduled test.
NOTIFICATION
1. Timing
Before the first shift each day, Health Services receives the names of
Motorolans to be tested that day. Department managers are then
informed of the names and scheduled test times.
2. No Shows
If the Motorolan is on site that day, the supervisor is responsible
for arranging the employee's schedule so the testing appointment will
be kept. If the Motorolan is not on site, the supervisor will be asked
to supply a reason for the "no-show" to Health Services. Employees who
are not available on the day of the test, as a result of an absence,
will be re-selected for testing within the next 90 days.
3. Location
The Motorolan reports to Health Services or the collection point,
where the collection and chain of custody process begins.
COLLECTION
Motorola and its certified drug-testing laboratory will maintain a
clear, well-documented procedure for the collection, shipment and
documentation of urine specimens for testing.
1. Chain of custody
This procedure includes the use of a multiple-part chain of custody
form with an original that accompanies the specimen to the laboratory.
2. Tamperproof sealing system
It also includes the use of a tamperproof sealing system designed such
that:
* The specimen bottle top can be sealed against undetected opening;
* The bottle can be identified with a unique identifying number
identical to that appearing on the chain of custody form;
* The bottle can be initialed to affirm its identity.
3. Consent form
At Health Services (or other collection site), the Motorolan will be
required to complete a consent form, agreeing to take the test and to
have the test results released to Motorola.
4. Collection Process
* Employee receives a plastic cup, which had been sealed to prevent
contamination;
* Employee provides a urine specimen in private;
* Specimen is checked for temperature and poured into a shipping
bottle;
* Chain of custody form is explained and signed;
* Specimen bottle is sealed with a lid and tamperproof sealing tape;
* Seal is fixed to the bottle;
* Employee writes his / her initials on the tape;
* Chain of custody form and the bottle are placed in shipping box; and
* Final seal is placed around box, which is sent to CompuChem.
RESULTS NOTIFICATION
1. Negative and First-Time Positive Test Results
A Medical Review Officer will review and interpret all positive test
results. A negative test result will cause a letter to be sent from
Health Services to inform the employee of the result.
An employee will be notified of a positive test result by registered
letter from Health Services. It requires the employee to contact the
Medical Review Officer within 24 hours. The Medical Review Officer
will conduct:
* A medical interview with the individual;
* A review of the individual's medical history; or
* A review of any other relevant biomedical factors.
If the Medical Review Officer determines there is a legitimate medical
explanation for the positive test result, he will report the test
result as negative.
2. Referral to the Employee Assistance Program
Once a first-time positive test results has been verified, the Medical
Review Officer shall refer the case to Health Services, which is
responsible for notifying Personnel. Personnel will meet with the
employee and will refer him / her to the Employee Assistance Program
for consultation, assessment and the completion of an appropriate and
agreed-upon action plan.
3. Supervisory Knowledge / Security Clearance
The employee's supervisor shall be notified of the verified positive
test result only if the employee agrees that his / her supervisor
should be told, or on a need-to-know basis including, as required, to
insure the employee's safety and that of others, to protect Motorola's
proprietary and confidential information, and to comply with state or
federal regulations. Employees having a security clearance who are
confirmed first-time positive will be reported to the federal agency
which authorized the security clearance. If an employee loses a
security clearance as a result of such adverse information, the
employee may be subject to termination.
4. Second-Time Positive Test Results
Once a second-time positive test result has been verified, the
Medical Review Officer will refer the case to Motorola management
empowered to take administrative action. Individuals having confirmed
second positives will be immediately subject to termination.
APPEALS
1. Right to appeal
An employee will have the right to appeal a positive test result by
written request to the sector / group / corporate personnel director.
2. Considered by Medical Review Officer and Personnel Director
The Medical Review Officer and the personnel director shall consider
the appeal, and their decision shall be final.
3. Remedy
Where the appeal challenges the accuracy or validity of the laboratory
test result, if granted, the sole remedy shall be a re-analysis of the
original sample by Motorola's testing laboratory.
TIMEFRAME
1990 -
4/24 Brief Public Relations and Spokespersons
5/3 Announce to All Officers
5/3 Conduct Videoconference Briefing
5/4-16 Announce to Managers and Supervisors
5/18 Announce to U.S. Employees
5/21 Announce to Media
May (ongoing) Initiate Drug-Test Information Line
Jun-Aug Test Senior Management Participants
Jun-Sept Train Managers/Supervisors
Sept Begin Testing at GEG {gov't equipment group}
1991
Jan Begin Testing for All U.S. Employees
EMPLOYEE COMMUNICATION
April 26 Briefing Book
Videoconference participants receive an advance briefing book prior to
the videoconference. {this document}
May 3 Officer CMS Post
Officers receive a CMS-Post announcing the new policy and providing a
copy of the letter to the home.
May 3 Videoconference
Local implementation teams participate in a two-way dialogue on the
new policy.
May 4-16 Management/Supervisory Briefings
Managers and supervisors are briefed on the policy, timeframes and
Q&As prior to the general employee announcement.
May 18 Employee Announcement
Employees receive a letter from the CEO, announcing the new policy.
May-April 1991 Information Hotline
Corporate Personnel operates an anonymous drug testing information
hotline for U.S. employees.
May 18 Drug Awareness Booklet
Send a drug awareness educational booklet to employees.
June-March 1991 Site Publication Articles
Site publications run a series of monthly articles to increase
awareness.
September-December Site Posters
Sites display a series of four posters to increase awareness.
October-December Employee Briefings
Sector / group / corporate briefs employees at communication meetings.
PUBLIC RELATIONS PLAN
1. News Release
A news release on the announcement to employees will be issued on May
21, 1990, in each major plant location (draft to be distributed)
during or just after the employee announcement. The timing is to
insure the employees are informed first.
2. Handling Inquiries
All press inquiries will be answered at the plant community level by
designated public relations personnel. In some cases, a Sector / Group
may elect to handle press inquiries from a central location for plant
cities where no public relations personnel are present.
3. Tone
The tone of the news release (and the tone of the responses to press
inquiries) will be positive and straight-forward, with no apologies or
defensiveness. Our position on this announcement is that we are taking
a positive stand for a drug-free work force, and that our stand also
will make a difference in the communities in which we have plants and
facilities. In addition, Motorola must meet the requirements of the
Drug-Free Work Place Act of 1988 and, for certain segments of our
company, the Department of Defense Work Force regulations and the
Department of Transportation regulations.
4. Interviews
A designated spokesperson will be available at each major plant city
location for interviews by the press as deemed necessary or prudent.
The need for these interviews may be triggered simply by the desire of
given media to probe the new policy more deeply, or an interview may
be desirable in any community where there is latent opposition to such
policies or for other reasons. These spokespersons have been selected
jointly by the local public relations manager, personnel manager and
plant or facility manager, and will be prepared for any interviews. We
generally decline on-camera television or on-air radio interviews.
Judgement should be used if a spokesperson does elect to go on camera
or on air.
5. Questions and Answers
In responding to press inquiries or in interviews, Motorola public
relations personnel and designated spokespersons will adhere to the
approved questions and answers provided in the Briefing Book, the news
release and the Public Comment Guidelines. If additional questions or
issues are raised that are not covered in the Briefing Book or news
release, public relations personnel will determine the appropriate
answers or responses off-line and respond to the inquirer as quickly
as possible.
TRAINING PLAN
1. Purpose of Training
The purpose of the training is to assist Motorola in the
implementation of the new Policy for a Drug-Free Work Force by
training supervisors and managers to administer the policy with
confidence and competence.
2. Objectives
1 - To understand and be able to communicate to employees the
rationale for the policy;
2 - To understand and be able to communicate to employees the policy
itself;
3 - To recognize and respond appropriately to pre-defined events
relating to the policy;
4 - To respond professionally to employee questions, objectives and
statements relating to the policy.
3. Course Structure
Module One: The policy rationale
Module Two: The policy itself
Module Three: Policy administration
Module Four: Professional Confrontation Skills
Module Five: Presenting the Policy to Employees
4. Training Outputs
1 - a 150-minute video incorporating the above modules.
2 - Printed supervisor and facilitator guides to provide support to
the video-based training;
3 - Train-the-trainer materials
* Methodology for Training (training technique)
* Facilitator training system (video).
5. Training Delivery Mode
A continuation of video-based and print-based training with breaks for
discussion, role play and questions and answers, facilitated by one of
64 trained Motorola supervisors.
EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
The Motorola Employee Assistance Program (EAP) has been available to
Motorola employees and covered dependents since 1979. EAP provides
assessment and consultation for a wide range of difficulties including
marital, personal and stress-related problems, as well as problems
with the abuse of drugs.
The Employee Assistance Program is staffed by professionals who
respect employee confidentiality and offer quality and cost-effective
referrals for rehabilitation. The initial EAP assessment and
consultation is available without cost. However, further assessment
and rehabilitation costs can be reimbursed through the employee's HMO,
which generally has limited coverage for drug-related problems, or the
Motorola Employee Medical Plan. Employees are responsible for the
payment of any cost not covered by their chosen medical coverage.
Employees may seek assistance from their local EAP representative
before the implementation of universal drug testing. EAP staff will
provide an assessment, consultation, rehabilitation recommendations
and a continuing action plan for recovery. Early intervention by
qualified professionals can assist employees in contributing their
full potential to Motorola and enjoying life to its fullest.
EAP professionals will not notify management, unless required by law,
if a employee requests assistance prior to implementation of universal
drug testing. Participation in EAP does not exclude an employee from
being selected or required to take the drug test. When selected, the
drug test must be taken.
If an employee is selected and tests positive, the employee will be
referred to EAP where a mutually agreed upon action plan will be
designed, based upon individual need. The employee's participation,
cooperation and successful completion of the agreed upon action plan
is required.
The emphasis of Motorola's drug testing policy is rehabilitation. The
Employee Assistance Program provides the avenue to accomplish that
goal.
GENERAL
Q: If employees are, for the most part, in favor of the program and
Motorola focus groups suggest that the most fair policy tests all
employees, how do you explain that there is a highly vocal group in
Austin who are picketing, threatening to unionize, filing a class
action lawsuit, and so forth?
A: We know from our focus groups that this policy would be supported
by the majority but not all of our employees,. Based on what we heard
from employees and what we know about this issue in Motorola and in
the U.S., we were willing to assume some of the risks. (The employees
in question are employees of Texas Instruments.)
Q: What would Motorola do if it found out that one of its key
executives was a recreational cocaine user? Would he be treated
exactly the same as a production worker? Wouldn't a highly placed
executive get special treatment or special consideration?
A: All employees will be treated under the same policy guidelines.
Q: What percentage of potential new hires fail the pre-employment drug
test?
A: Approximately 2-3 percent of current job candidates do not pass the
drug test.
Q: Can you break it down for our area?
A: We prefer not to do so.
Q: Aren't you making me prove my innocence by taking a drug test?
A: Motorolans involved in focus group sessions around the company
recommended that a fair policy should include the testing of all
Motorola employees, rather than selected employees. For the good of
the cause, we are asking you to be part of the process to maintain a
safe, drug-free work force. We need your understanding and cooperation
in order to preserve the high quality of our products and to meet the
expectations and requirements of our customers.
Q: Is there one area of the country worse than another in terms of
drug-related problems Motorola has had?
A: There does not appear to be an appreciable difference.
Q: What were some of the drug-related problems at Motorola that
prompted the company to take such an action?
A: Employee input during focus group sessions indicates they feel we
have a problem. We cannot site {sic} specific instances for reasons of
confidentiality. However, we have experienced a variety of problems,
from theft and vandalism to the emotional, physical and other health
problems experienced by some of our employees.
GENERAL
[You should be familiar with the following questions and answers
regarding Motorola's policy for a drug-free work force. These are
typical of the questions employees are likely to ask. You may find it
helpful to write out a list of the "local" questions you can
anticipate from your employees.]
Q: Why is Motorola doing this?
A: Motorola developed this policy as a logical extension of its
applicant and its "for-cause" drug testing policies and its commitment
to the Employee Assistance Program. Motorola's top mangement believe
that a best-in-class work force is a key ingredient for a safe,
drug-free work place and a competitive advantage in achieving total
customer satisfaction.
While it is true that we have experienced drug use problems, like
other major U.S. companies, our purpose is to prevent the kind of drug
problems in our work place which are now facing our nation. Motorola
must meet the requirements of the Drug-Free Work Place Act of 1988
and, for certain segments of our company, the Department of Defense
Drug-Free Work Force Regulations and the Department of Transportation
regulations. We also believe that by taking a positive stand for a
drug-free work place for Motorolans, we will make a difference in the
communities in which we work and live.
Q: Who made this decision?
A: Motorola's Policy Committee made the decision to establish this
policy. This committee comprises the CEO members and the general
managers of our businesses and functions.
Q: How long has the company been contemplating such a policy?
A: Motorola has been looking at drugs in the work place since 1985. In
1987, we established a pre-employment drug test program. We have been
researching a universal drug testing program for all U.S. employees
since 1988.
Q: What does illegal drug usage cost Motorola annually in health care
costs?
A: Assuming that Motorola hired those job candidates who were screened
out since April 1987 by our applicant drug test, and projecting the
national average of 7 percent employee involvement in illegal drugs,
we would have spent $1 million more per year in increased medical
costs alone.
Q: What percentage of the employee population will be lost due to (a)
refusal to comply with the voluntary testing, (b) two positive
test/failing rehabilitation?
A: We prefer not to speculate on either question.
DRUG TESTING PROCEDURE
Q: Who will be tested under this policy?
A: All full- and part-time employees of Motorola, Inc. and its
subsidiaries are included. Outside contract / temporary employees are
also subject to Motorola's drug testing program. Guidelines for
handling these groups will be implemented by sector / group /
corporate.
Q: How will employees be selected?
A: A number of Motorolans will be selected, via a non-biased selection
procedure, from the employee population which has not been tested.
Also, a number of Motorolans will be selected from the employee
population that has been previously tested. This computerized process
ensures fairness and an equal statistical chance to all.
Q: What is the non-biased selection procedure?
A: It is a formula that tells the computer how to select employees for
the drug test. It guarantees the integrity of the selection process.
Q: Is the test going to be a blood test or a urine test?
A: The test will be conducted on a urine sample.
Q: How much time does the test require?
A: Normally, 15 to 20 minutes.
Q: Must I sign a consent form before taking the test?
A: Yes, a consent form must be signed before the test sample is taken.
Q: If I put a statement on the form that I'm signing under duress (or
other statement that I disagree with the policy), will I be
terminated?
A: No, as long as you sign the form and take the test.
Q: What if I don't want to be tested?
A: Your employment will be terminated if you do not consent to the
test.
Q: How will anyone know if I don't show up for the test?
A: Attendance will be tracked and "no shows" will be re-selected for
testing within 90 days.
Q: What if I have a meeting when I'm supposed to take the test?
A: You must comply with the testing schedule if you are on the site.
In special situations, Health Services may reschedule you for another
time on the same day. Failure to complete the test on the day
scheduled will result in your being re-selected for testing within 90
days.
GENERAL
Q: What are other companies doing about the problem?
A: Many companies are testing for pre-employment. Motorola is one of a
few leaders in the universal testing of current employees.
Q: Who else has universal drug testing?
A: Texas Instruments is the only company our size which has such a
policy. Dow Chemical and Exxon are testing universally at some of
their facilities.
Q: How much will this program cost?
A: It will cost approximately $1.5 million in the first year.
Q: How soon will Motorola complete the testing of all its employees?
A: All employees will be tested at least once every three years in
those states where such testing is permitted.
Q: Do Motorolans outside the U.S. have to do this?
A: At present, they don't. Because of differences in laws and
practices in various countries, future decisions to test Motorolans at
international sites will have to be made on a country-by-country
basis.
Q: Who will we use as our testing laboratory?
A: We will use the CompuChem Laboratory in Research Triangle Park NC,
the same firm that provides our current applicant tests.
Q: What drugs will be tested for?
A: We will test for the following:
* Amphetamines, e.g., Dexedrine, Speed, Ice, Crank, Uppers
* Barbiturates, e.g., Downers, Seconal, Nembutal, Amytal
* Benzodiazepines, e.g., Ativan, Dalmane, Librium, Valium
* Cocaine, e.g., Crack
* Cannabinoids, e.g., Marijuana
* Methodone
* Methaqualone, e.g., Quaaludes
* Opiates, e.g., Heroin, Morphine, Codeine
* Phencyclidine, e.g., PCP, Angel Dust
Q: What about alcohol abuse?
A: Although alcohol abuse is a major national problem, alcohol is not
an illegal drug. However, the use, possession, sale or distribution of
alcohol on company premises or in company-supplied vehicles is
prohibited and constitutes a major infraction of Motorola's policy.
Our current policy encourages employees with alcohol abuse problems to
seek treatment through the Employee Assistance Program.
ACTIONS IF TEST IS POSITIVE
Q: Who determines a "verified" test result?
A: The Medical Review Officer is the only person who can a {sic}
verify a positive test result. That individual makes the determination
based on the test results from CompuChem and interviews with
employees.
Q: How will I find out if I tested positive?
A: Once the Medical Review Officer has made a determination, Health
Services will notify you. A positive test result will be documented in
your confidential Health Services file.
Q: Who is a Medical Review Officer?
A: The Medical Review Officer is a licensed physician who has
knowledge of substance abuse disorders and appropriate medical
training to interpret and evaluate a positive test result.
Q: Who else will be informed of my verified positive test result?
A: Besides Health Services, the only people who have a need to know
about a positive test results are Personnel and, where appropriate,
your supervisor.
Q: When is it "appropriate" for my supervisor to know?
A: It is appropriate when you agree that your supervisor should be
told, and on a need-to-know basis including, as required, to insure
your safety and that of others, to protect Motorola's proprietary and
confidential information, and to comply with state or federal
regulations.
Q: If I have a positive test, will I receive disciplinary action?
A: If this is your first positive test, you will be given an
opportunity, though counseling or rehabilitation, to stop using drugs
without jeopardizing your employment. If this is the second positive
test, your employment will be terminated.
Q: Will Motorola permit a "re-test" if I feel a mistake has been made?
A: You have the right to appeal a positive test result. You should
make a written request to your sector / group / corporate personnel
director. The Medical Review Officer and your personnel officer will
consider your appeal and their decision will be final. If your appeal
challenges the accuracy or validity of the laboratory test result, if
granted, the sole remedy will be a re-analysis of the original sample
by Motorola's testing laboratory.
Q: What if I have government clearance and test positive?
A: Motorola is required by contract with the government to comply with
the provisions of the Industrial Security Manual. This requires that
Motorola notify the government and suspend the clearance. The agencies
of the government, not Motorola, grant and rescind clearances.
Q: Can I be rehired if I am terminated under this policy?
A: You can be considered for rehire as any other employee terminated
"for cause".
DRUG TEST PROCEDURE
Q: How many times will my sample be tested?
A: Each sample will be screened first by enzyme immunoassay procedures
(EMIT) to determine the presence of a drug in the sample. Those
samples with such a presence will undergo a confirmatory test by Gas
Chromatography / Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS).
Q: How and when will I be notified of test results?
A: Health Services will send a letter to the address you designate,
within 10 business days of your test. The letter will announce a
negative result or, in the case of a positive result, will ask you to
call the Medical Review Officer within 24 hours of your receipt of the
letter.
Q: Will I be tested again if my test is negative?
A: The selection process for testing does not set limits on the number
of times you may be tested during the course of your employment. A
non-biased selection process means that all employees are subject to
selection on an ongoing basis.
Q: Will anyone else know if I passed or failed the test?
A: Only those who need to know, generally Health Services, Personnel,
and, where appropriate, your supervisor. Test results will be
electronically passed from CompuChem to the Medical Review Officer.
Health Services will notify you.
Q: Will Motorola test me after an accident or injury?
A: If there is a reasonable basis to suspect drug use, or you are in a
position involving national security, health or safety, or other
functions relating to defense contract work, you could be tested.
Q: What if I used drugs in the past but not now?
A: Most drugs will be out of the system in a matter of days. Some,
like marijuana, may remain in the system for 30 to 60 days, depending
on the extent of use.
Q: How do we know the test lab is not making mistakes?
A: In addition to the many safeguards in the procedure and
certification by all the leading drug certification organizations,
both the lab and Motorola submit blind samples to make sure there are
no errors. If a blind sample were to come back with an erroneous
reading, the who batch would be destroyed and systems would be checked
before samples were re-tested.
CONFIDENTIALITY / PRIVACY / EQUAL TREATMENT
Q: What is on the consent form?
A: Before taking the universal drug test, you must sign an approval
form agreeing to the test and consenting to the release of test
results to Health Services. This permits Health Services to
communicate or disclose your test results to others in accordance with
the policy and procedures. This information may also be disclosed to
others where required or permitted by law.
Q: Will there be exceptions for employees who have to take medication?
A: The Medical Review Officer will verify all prescription drugs. This
information will remain confidential.
Q: If I get help for drug use, will this be put in my file?
A: If you seek help voluntarily through the Employee Assistance
Program prior to your test selection, your participation in the
Employee Assistance Program will remain confidential in accordance
with the Employee Assistance Program policy. If you are referred to
the Employee Assistance Program as a result of a first-time positive
drug test, information relating to that test and rehabilitation will
be kept in your Employee Assistance Program file, but not in your
personnel file.
Q: How can I be sure my rehabilitation is confidential?
A: Your rehabilitation is confidential, and will be held in your
Employee Assistance Program file.
Q: Can supervisors harass Motorolans they don't like by making them
test more than once?
A: No. Drug testing selection is a computer-generated program. There
is no possible way that the non-biased selection procedure can be used
by a manager or supervisor to harass an employee.
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS
Q: What proof will I have to show that I am taking a prescribed drug?
A: You will need to have a prescription number, doctor's name and the
name of the drug store.
Q: What if I use my spouse's prescription?
A: If you have tested positive for a certain drug, you must have a
prescription in your name for that drug. If you do not have a
prescription, it will be treated like a positive test result.
Q: What if I have a prescription from a year ago and have not renewed
it?
A: If the prescription is for a drug which tests positive, and the
valid prescription is in your name, the prescription will be
acceptable for establishing a legal basis for the drug.
Q: Will I be treated like anyone else who tests positive?
A: Yes, if you cannot provide a legal prescription for a drug for
which you test positive.
Q: Should I bring my prescription drugs with me every day, in case
today is the day I get tested?
A: No, you do not have to bring in your prescription drugs with you
each day. You will have the opportunity to indicate any medication use
before you take the test and following any positive result reported
from the laboratory.
Q: How is Motorola going to verify a prescription?
A: The Medical Review Officer will contact your doctor or pharmacist.
Q: How will I know what type of drugs I may have received under
surgery?
A: The Medical Review Officer will contact your doctor.
OTHER TESTS / INVESTIGATIONS
Q: Besides drug testing, what other ways will be used to find drugs?
A: Motorola will investigate reported violations of the Drug-Free
Policy.
Q: What happens if I am caught with drugs or under the influence of
drugs?
A: Current Motorola policy already states that you will be immediately
terminated for the manufacture, possession, sale or distribution of
drugs. If you are found to be under the influence of drugs on the job,
your employment will be terminated. The same conditions apply as the
current policy on "for cause" testing.
Q: Will Motorola search my personal property?
A: Motorola does not plan to search you personal property without your
consent. However, your locker or desk, for example, is the property of
the company and may be searched.
Q: Does Motorola have undercover police to monitor drug use?
A: No. But, in some cases, undercover police have been called in to
assist with an investigation.
Q: What if my supervisor suspects that I am using drugs?
A: No individual supervisor can make that determination alone. In
order to make a determination to test for suspected drug use, two or
more supervisors, managers, nurses or Personnel professionals, in any
combination, must have a reasonable suspicion to believe you are under
the influence or have been using drugs on the premises.
LEGALITY
Q: Is Motorola's drug-free policy legal?
A: Yes. Actions by private employers are generally not subject to
review under the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights because no
government action is involved. Therefore, any challenges to Motorola's
Drug-Free Policy will be measured against protections extended private
sector employees by lawmakers at the state and local levels and by the
courts. Those entities have imposed few restraints on employers such
as Motorola, permitting them considerable latitude in prescribing the
terms and conditions of employment.
Deterring illegal drug use through drug-testing programs has been held
to be a lawful exercise of a private employer's ability to set work
place safety, productivity and integrity standards.
Some states and cities have passed legislation which regulates the
method and circumstances under which employers may test. Motorola's
testing programs will comply with those laws.
Q: Doesn't drug testing constitute an invasion of my privacy?
A: Deterring illegal drug use through drug testing has been held by
courts to be a lawful exercise of a private employer's ability to set
work place safety, productivity and integrity standards. Motorola is
taking steps to minimize and protect all employees' right of privacy,
as opposed to invading your right to privacy.
EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
Q: Can I voluntarily enter a drug rehabilitation program before being
tested?
A: Yes, the Employee Assistance Program will conduct an assessment,
make a referral to a qualified professional and follow-up to ensure
satisfactory treatment.
Q: Who provides these services?
A: Motorola's Employee Assistance Program is staffed by qualified
professionals who are certified in the addictions and employee
assistance fields.
Q: How can I reach the Employee Assistance Program at my site?
A: You can call your nearest Employee Assistance Program number:
Austin 512/928-7744
Mansfield 617/364-2000
Mesa 602/898-5392
Phoenix 602/244-6067
Schaumburg 708/576-0493
Scottsdale 602/994-6666
South Florida 305/475-6420
Q: What if I have a positive drug test result? Do I have to go to the
Employee Assistance Program or can I go to my own physician /
counselor / self-help group?
A: You will be referred to the Employee Assistance Program for
consultation and assessment. Your counselor will work with you to
develop an appropriate and agreed-upon action plan, which may include
the use of your own physician, counselor or self-help group. You must
successfully complete all phases of the Employee Assistance Program
action plan.
Q: Will the results of my Employee Assistance Program be confidential
if I am required to attend because of a positive test result?
A: The results of the rehabilitation are confidential. Your
cooperation and participation in fulfilling the Employee Assistance
Program action plan will be shared with the appropriate management, in
accordance with Motorola policy and as required or permitted by law.
Q: Will I have to miss work to attend?
A: In most cases, you will meet with the Employee Assistance staff
during work hours.
Q: Does the new drug policy require the Employee Assistance Program to
report my drug use if I voluntarily go in for counseling?
A: No. If you voluntarily seek help from the Employee Assistance
Program, this information is confidential.
Q: If I am notified to report for a drug test but voluntarily contact
the Employee Assistance Program before the test, must I still take the
test?
A: Yes. Enrollment in Employee Assistance Program has no bearing on
the requirement to report for a test when notified to do so.
EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
Q: If I am applying for a security clearance or already have one, will
voluntary participation in the Employee Assistance Program affect my
security clearance?
A: If you already have a clearance and have or will voluntarily use
the services of the Employee Assistance Program, your drug use will
not be reportable to the government under the reporting requirements
as adverse information. But, if the company knows that you have a drug
problem prior to your admission to Employee Assistance Program, it is
required to report this information as adverse information.
Q: If Motorola tells me to get treatment, and my insurance won't pay
for all or part of the bill, who pays the rest?
A: You are responsible for choosing the type of medical coverage you
want -- either the Motorola Medical Plan or an HMO, where offered. You
are responsible for the payment of any cost not covered by your
medical coverage. HMOs generally have limited coverage for chemical
dependency treatment.
Q: If I am a voluntary participant in the Employee Assistance Program
and then test positive in universal testing, is that considered my
second positive?
A: No. It is considered a first-time positive.
Q: If I am in the Employee Assistance Program as a results of a
first-time positive, and then test positive again in universal
testing, is that considered my second positive?
A: yes.
CONTRACT AND TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES
Q: If I am a contractor, who will pay for my testing?
A: You will be responsible for covering the expenses of the test.
Q: Will temporary summer help be required to take this test?
A: Yes. You will take the applicant drug test which is administered to
all temporary employees.
Q: If I take the test in 1990 as a contractor and then leave for a
year and come back in 1991, will I have to take the test again?
A: When you come back to Motorola as an employee or contract employee
you will be required to meet the requirements of the drug-free policy
(as an employee) or the requirements of the agreement or contract (as
a contract employee).
------------If this was a forwarded post, the article ends here.------------
David Danzig dan...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
BANG! BANG! BANG! "Fire the tachyon guns!" (It's a joke. Think about it.)
____________________________________________________________________________
My usual disclaimer follows, as does information for sending anonymous
posts. PLEASE read it if you haven't before. Otherwise, press 'j' now.
****************************************************************************
* ***Disclaimer*** These opinions are not the official position of any *
* organization; in fact they may well not be my own, as I am often asked *
* to forward articles. Any illegal, immoral, or offensive act or *
* statement which I make or atribute to myself is simply a poor atempt *
* at humor and should by no means be construed as having as its basis my *
* personal opinion or any objective fact. *
* I do not advocate any action of questionable legality or morality. *
* ***Disclaimer*** The stuff in this box might not be right either. *
****************************************************************************
If you would like something posted anonymously, feel free to send it to me.
Please use the subject header you want used as the letter's subject, and
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Dana H. Myers
>Keywords:
>
>with a field selectable 8 bit mode. It has 10 bit ADC's (vs 8 bit on the
>Moto). It has 256 registers - sort of a RISC-like setup. It is fast.
>
John is right; the 8096 family is neat. The architecture is clean,
regular and easy to program. Writing compilers for it is not too difficult.
The three operand instructions are quite nice.
However, it is worth pointing out that it does not have 256 registers; it
has 232 bytes of internal RAM, which *may* be used as registers. If you use
all of the RAM as 16 bit registers, you would have 116 registers. However,
you don't really use the RAM as registers, per se. It is more like having
very fast variable RAM (since the ALU operates directly on the on chip RAM).
It also has a load of nifty on chip peripherals, particularly the High
Speed I/O unit (capture/compare timers, but done very well).
I must agree the the 8096 is very RISC like. My personal take is that
a garden variety 8097BH at 12 Mhz is comparable to a 8 Mhz 80286 for
computing. Because of improvements in the family, a CMOS 80C196KC at
16 Mhz is probably comparable to a 16+ Mhz 286 processor.
--
* Dana H. Myers KK6JQ | Views expressed here are *
* (213) 337-5136 | mine and do not necessarily *
* da...@locus.com DoD #466 | reflect those of my employer *
* "Dammit Bones, spare me the lecture and give me the shot!" *
Peter Desnoyers
>Keywords:
>In article <+=ak...@dixie.com> j...@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>>usually the one you find easiest. Motorola gives away some meocre development
>>tools. Tools of equal or better quality are available free or for trivial
>>cost from others. Intel is a shit company but so is Motorola (first
>>fortune 100 company to do random without-cause drug testing.) so that's
>>a wash. Both families are available from second sources. In both cases
>>the second sources are better than the real thing. Since development
>I have seen no reason to believe that Moto is a "shit company." I am
>opposed to drug testing, but Moto is a major federal contractor and
>has no choice in the matter.
Motorola's testing goes far beyond what is required by the Federal
government. It also goes far beyond what is allowed by many state laws
and constitutions - the Motorola drug-free workforce program is illegal
(and hence not implemented) in about 10 states, including California.
Peter Desnoyers
Codex Corp. (a division of Motorola)
--
John Moore
In article <-lbk...@dixie.com> j...@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
]john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:
]
]>Keywords:
]
][me]
]>]You got it. Actually it's more like a Ford Vs Chevy thang. More religious
]>]fervor in those two camps.
]
]>I have seen no reason to believe that Moto is a "shit company." I am
]>opposed to drug testing, but Moto is a major federal contractor and
]>has no choice in the matter.
]
]See? Told you there were religious underpinnings about. John, speak only
]of what you know. First off, the DrugFree Workplace Act does NOT
]require drug testing. It only requires an anti drug company policy.
Okay, okay, so they don't have to do it for ALL employees (although a large
number of the ones here in Phoenix DO have secret clearances). Nonetheless,
I have many friends who work there, and employees who used to work there,
and they do not consider it a "shit" company. Furthermore, I use a lot of
Motorola parts and have had no trouble with them. I have had good success
getting technical support. So, I guess your right, John, there are
religious underpinnings about - including your belief that they are
a shit company.
By the way, I am strongly opposed to random drug testing except in
cases of public safety. The difference is that I don't tar a company as
evil on just that basis alone.
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
jo...@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!jo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
- - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
- - - "It is better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six." - - -
Michael Harpe
Mike
--
---------------------------------------
"I will not barf unless i'm sick"
- A Chalkboard from "The Simpsons"
Grant Edwards
: It seems that if one wishes to do invent something using an 8 bit
I've designed products with both the 8051 and HC11. I've also done
software for both of them.
I'm slightly familiar with the HC05 family -- hated it. The stack is
completely hidden from the user, you can't push/pop data to/from the
stack and can only nest 8 subroutine calls or something stupid. It
has only a single 8 bit index register. That makes it pretty much
impossible to do multi-tasking or support any high level language.
There was an _attempt_ at a C compiler for it, but IMHO the attempt
failed. There are only three reasons I see to use the HC05: price,
price, and price.
The HC11 is much more like a "regular" 8-bit processor such as the
6502, 8080 (or of course the 6800). It has a single 64K address space
with memory mapped control registers for hardware-type stuff. All I/O
must be memory mapped (no I/O instructions a-la Intel).
The 8051 has separate address spaces for code (64K), external ram
(64K), internal ram (256?), although you can map the code and external
ram into a single space if do the address decoding correctly. The
internal ram is subdivided into "direct" (below address 128?) and
"indirect" (above address 128?). You use different instructions to
access each of these address spaces (or your C compiler does).
The HC11 is strictly byte addressing. Although it has bit set/test/clear
instructions.
The 8051 has bit level addressing for 256 bits. This is way-cool when
you are scraping by with a small amount of RAM, like 128 bytes.
The HC11 has a 16 bit stack pointer, so the stack can be anywhere, and
any size. This lets C compilers use the stack for parameters and
local variables. Multi-tasking is very easy since interrupts push ALL
of the registers onto the stack. Just point the stack pointer to the
next task's stack and to an IRET (or whatever it's called.
The 8051 has a very limited stack space, which has to be in internal
RAM. This makes it difficult to do things like multi-tasking and
re-entrancy.
The HC11 has a small register set:
accumulator A (8 bits)
accumulator B (8 bits)
(A and B can be operated on as a signle 16 bit register called D)
index register X (16 bits)
index register Y (16 bits)
condition code register (8 bits)
stack pointer (16 bits)
The 8051 has:
4 banks of R0 through R7 (8 bits each)
16 bit index register DL/DH
status register
The HC11 has a couple 16 bit timers, the main timer has an associated
set of output control registers and input capture registers. This
allows the main 16 bit timer to be used to control several outputs and
simultaneously time multiple events. Baud rate generation and watch
dog timer are seperate.
The 8051 has 2 or 3 16 bit timers, each one of which can only do one
thing at a time. One of the timers is used up as baud rate generator.
The HC11 has 2 serial interfaces. One is a regular UART, the other is
a high speed syncronous clocked interface.
The 8051 has a single serial interface which can be configured as a
regular UART or as a high speed clocked interface.
The HC11 is available with EEPROM on-board. There are tons of memory
configuration options available up to 1K RAM, a couple hundred bytes
of EEPROM and 24K ROM.
The last time I worked with 8051's (several years ago) there was no
EEPROM available and RAM was pretty limited.
The 8051 is probably cheaper for a minimal configuration.
Both can be run with very low power consumption (< 1mA @ 900KHz).
Good in-circuit emulators are available for both.
I prefer the HC11, especially for full-blown systems with external
memory (such as 48K ROM, 8K RAM, 8K EEPROM)-- Its architecture is
simpler and easier to deal with in software. The timers are also more
versatile. I use both serial interfaces simultaneously in the HC11,
so thats a big plus for me. The compilers that are available for the
HC11 are higher quality in my opinion.
It's been a couple years since I've worked with the 8051 family, so
the tools might be better now, and there might be new features that
I'm not aware of.
You might want to take a look at the HC16 also -- don't know what the
price is, but its more of a real 16 bit part. It also has an extended
24? bit accumulator for integer operations (that's the feature they
hype as DSP).
Enough of my ramblings.
--
Grant Edwards |Yow! My Aunt MAUREEN was a
Rosemount Inc. |military advisor to IKE &
|TINA TURNER!!
gra...@aquarius.rosemount.com |
John De Armond
>Could you guys please take this outside?
There's always a hall monitor about, isn't there? Never understood
why.
John
John A. Purbrick
In a previous article, ma...@ssc.wa.com (Mark Zenier) says:
>
>But if your 8051 application requires more than 128 (or 256) bytes
>you get stuck using the #$%^& data pointer.......
Not entirely true. You can use the
movx a,@rn instruction.
But that only allows 256 bytes! Again, no. Load the upper half of your
desired address into P2, and it will be emitted when the movx instruction
executes, but otherwise stays hidden. Since all the 8031 can do with external
RAM is move the contents to or from the accumulator, it's necessary to move it
to internal RAM (perhaps swapping out what was already there) before processing
the data. Example:
mov r0,#mem_block
mov p2,#mem_page ;This could equally well be a variable
lupe: movx a,@r0 ;Grab a byte from external RAM
xch a,@r0 ;Store byte internally, grab old byte
movx @r0,a ;Store former internal byte externally
inc r0 ;Do it as many times as needed
cjne r0,#mem_block+block_size,lupe
;Use djnz if counting down to 1, save a musec
That's 8 microseconds per byte exchanged and doesn't need the data pointer at
all. If you need different pointers internally and externally it's only a
1 musec penalty per pass. It's often the case that when you need external RAM
you won't need very much of it so you can use whatever portion of a RAM
chip is easiest to deal with.
And how about using P2 as extra input bits? Sneaky programming!
--
John Purbrick
jp...@lcs.mit.edu [preferred]
bi...@cleveland.freenet.edu [also works]
William
Well, the latest EET has an ad from motarola.
$50 gets you a 68HC705KICS kit with:
In circuit source level simulator/programmer board with target cable
Screen oriented editor/assembler/debugger/simulator software
68hc705k1 windowed eprom microprocessor.
If you enter their design contest and win, you get a ford explorer too...
BillW
Adrian Godwin
# You got it. Actually it's more like a Ford Vs Chevy thang. More religious
# fervor in those two camps. Whichever chip you learn to use first is
# usually the one you find easiest. Motorola gives away some meocre development
# tools. Tools of equal or better quality are available free or for trivial
# cost from others. Intel is a shit company but so is Motorola (first
# fortune 100 company to do random without-cause drug testing.) so that's
# a wash. Both families are available from second sources. In both cases
# the second sources are better than the real thing. Since development
Can you give more details on the HC11 second-source please ?
It seemed to be 'Real Soon Now' for a long while ... I'd appreciate some
up to date info on who & what.
-adrian
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Godwin (ago...@acorn.co.uk)
Gordon Letwin
>
>>It seems that if one wishes to do invent something using an 8 bit microcontrol
>>ler , there's two major options - Signetics 8051 based machines (and
>>a dozen derivatives) and the Moto 68HC family.
I apologise in that this response isn't really on-track; I only have experience
with the 8051, not the 68HC. But since the volume on this topic is low,
I'd like to say that although the 8051 instruction set is "classic intel" -
very weird and non-orthogonal - it's also dense and very useable, once you've
learned it.
I use 8051s - typically the Dallas DS5000 series - as "super PALs" for a lot
of misc. digital applications. For example, I want a remote keyboard/LCD
display in a box for my home control application. I can do this with a
dozen or so SSIs and a UART, but it's a lot easier to just take a 8051,
hook the 32 I/O pins directly to the keyboard and the display, and then
write some software.
Some of those weird instructions are direct bit set, clear, compliment, and
test instructions of either internal memory bits or the 32 I/O pins,
so in one microsecond (12 mhz part) you can interact with the outside world.
With a 20 mhz part it's fast enough to do a lot of misc.
useful stuff. Clearly it can't be a real PAL in, say, a memory circuit,
but it's good enough for anything that can wait a few microseconds,
and of course with (up to) 32K of memory you can do a lot more than a PAL can.
In some ways the 8051 reminds me of a RISC processor. Each instruction takes
at least one cycle of 12 clock tics (which is certainly not RISC like!), but
if you look at it in terms of cycles, most instructions execute in one
cycle, and a few take two, or, at 12 mhz, that's 1 us usually, sometimes 2 us.
Can someone compare and contrast this to the 68HC family, specifically
for use as a general purpose "digital engine"? Also, the DS5000
series gives you 32K of non-volitle RAM that can be partitioned at will
between "pseudo ROM" and RAM. Are there 68HC parts with this much memory?
gordon letwin
Ed Hall
>meha...@vlsi.louisville.edu (Michael Harpe) writes:
>
>>Could you guys please take this outside?
>
>There's always a hall monitor about, isn't there? Never understood
>why.
No, it's not the hall monitor. Just the teacher telling you that you've
stepped into the wrong classroom.
-Ed Hall
edh...@rand.org
Cyberman
MZ>look as the 8096 family, the 'Hc16, or one of the high integration
MZ>68000's. Or a bunch of other options.
Do you think motorolla will make a microcontroller version of the
68k? should be to hard.
STEPHEN CYBE...@TOZ.BUFFALO.NY.US
commiserated at Mon 05-04-1992 23:22:01
---
* SLMR 2.1a * End of Transmission........
William
68k? should be to hard.
In essence, these already exist.
the 68302 has 68000, RISC "comm processor", 2K of RAM, and the
standard plethora of I/O ports, programmable chip selects, timers,
wait state generators, and so on (which they call the "Systems
Intergration module: SIM). the comm processor is 3 serial
ports with a big variety of modes - it's sort of targeted at ISDN
applications.
the 68330 is a 68020- (they call int a CPU32. It's a 68020 minus
a few instructions and a couple of addressing modes) with just the
SIM part.
the 68331 adds an asycn serial port.
the 68332 adds a "time processor unit" (fancy sort-of smart timer
unit suitable for driving steppers and stuff), along with 2K of RAM.
the 68340 is like a 68331 with some DMA channels.
None of these have built in ROM of any kind, but then none of them require
more than wire to connected up a ROM. They are neat chips.
BillW
Sakari Aaltonen
In article <1992May05.1...@microsoft.com> gor...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:
>I'd like to say that although the 8051 instruction set is "classic intel" -
>very weird and non-orthogonal - it's also dense and very useable, once you've
>learned it.
>Some of those weird instructions are direct bit set, clear, compliment, and
>test instructions of either internal memory bits or the 32 I/O pins,
>so in one microsecond (12 mhz part) you can interact with the outside world.
>With a 20 mhz part it's fast enough to do a lot of misc.
>useful stuff. Clearly it can't be a real PAL in, say, a memory circuit,
>but it's good enough for anything that can wait a few microseconds,
>and of course with (up to) 32K of memory you can do a lot more than a PAL can.
>
>Can someone compare and contrast this to the 68HC family, specifically
>for use as a general purpose "digital engine"? Also, the DS5000
>series gives you 32K of non-volitle RAM that can be partitioned at will
>between "pseudo ROM" and RAM. Are there 68HC parts with this much memory?
>
>gordon letwin
I agree that the 8051 instruction set is useful once you've learned it...:-)
More seriously, the 68HC11 also has bit set/clear and branch on bit set/clear
instructions. All take 3-4us depending on the addressing mode and assuming
an 8MHz clock, so it's certainly slower than 1 microsecond. However, it's
fast enough to interface to a floppy disk (720K) controller, for example.
My Dallas databook ('90-'91) lists the DS2301 as incorporating the Hitachi
6303, a CMOS, rather 68HC11-compatible version of the earlier Motorola 6801.
The 68HC11-compatible DS5311FP is listed as a "future product". Dallas's
current 8051 line is extensive.
A note: a generic 68HC11/8051 comparison is very hard to make because so
many versions of both processors exist, with differing I/O ports, A/D
converters, internal RAM/EEPROM, and so forth. The 80(C)535 and 80(C)552 are
examples on the 8051 side of the fence. The 68HC11F1 has 1K of internal
RAM which makes the bootstrap mode really useful.
Pierre-Martin Tardif
What do you think is the MC683xx family ??? I'm using the 68332
for a mobile robot project. It's using MC68020 instructions plus
several microcontroller dedicated instructions like table look-up,
etc. The 68332 is a complete microcontroller. You just need to add
EPROM and RAM to have it working (it contains RS232, uWIRE and other
interfaces).
--
Pierre-Martin Tardif, etudiant gradue (email: tar...@gel.ulaval.ca)
Laboratoire de Vision et Systemes Numeriques
Universite Laval, Pavillon Adrien-Pouliot, local 00100-I, Ste-Foy, Quebec,
Canada, G1K 7P4 (418-656-2131, ext 4848)
Gordon Letwin
This has been a very useful discussion thread for me; I appreciate the chance
to learn about the 68HC11 family.
I primarily use 8051-architecture chips in "single chip" mode - I like having
the EPROM and RAM on board so that the 32 I/O pins are all available for
interfacing. (The 8051 family can use external ROM and RAM, but you have
to give up 16+ of the pins as an external memory bus)
I use CMOS 8051s with 128 bytes of RAM and 4K of EPROM; this is enough for
a lot of modest applications. When I want to get fancy I use the DS5000
for 32K of RAM+EPROM (actually not EPROM but battery backed RAM).
One advantage of having the battery backup is that it preserves the "RAM"
as well as the "ROM", so you can log events to a big ram buffer and then
study them later for diagnostic purposes - a (very) poor man's "logic
analyzer".
What kinds of single-chip configurations are available for the 68HC11?
gordon letwin
Mika R Iisakkila
> the 68302 has 68000, RISC "comm processor", 2K of RAM, and the
....
The SCC68070 by Philips (Signetics) gets a lot less attention than it
deserves. It has a 68000 core, on-chip MMU, 2-channel DMA, I2C-bus
interface, a normal UART, timer/counters, lots of interrupt sources
and other assorted goodies in an 84-pin PLCC. And it's cheap too,
while the part number impresses the ignorant :-)
--
Segmented Memory Helps Structure Software
William
The SCC68070 by Philips (Signetics) gets a lot less attention than it
deserves. It has a 68000 core, on-chip MMU, 2-channel DMA, I2C-bus
It gets so little attention because an MMU is a really stupid thing
to put on a single chip computer. Motarola even figured out that it
wasn't such a great thing to have on general purpose processor chips,
thus yielding the 68EC030 and 68EC040.
I wish vendors would put direct-to-dram interfaces on their single
chip computers. That would be cool...
BillW
Bill O'Donnell
: Do you think motorolla will make a microcontroller version of the
: 68k? should be to hard.
:
Yes. The 68332.
Sakari Aaltonen
...
>What kinds of single-chip configurations are available for the 68HC11?
>
> gordon letwin
The 68HC11 has three operating modes:
- single-chip (no external addresses)
- expanded (8 pins (16 on the 'F1) are used for external addresses)
- bootstrap
The bootstrap mode is like single-chip, but, at reset, you can download
- from a PC, say - a program into the internal RAM through the serial port.
The usefulness of this depends, of course, on the size of the RAM.
There's a port replacement unit (68HC24) that restores the ports that are
lost in expanded mode. It's reminiscent of the Intel 8243.
There are 68HC11's with onboard EPROM, but they are rather expensive.
Motorola seems to prefer onboard EEPROM, of which most types have at least
512 bytes.
There was also a question here about the A/D capabilities; the 68HC11 has
an eight-channel, eight-bit converter. On the other hand, the 80C552 has
an eight-channel, T E N-bit one...:-)
Cyberman
WI> deserves. It has a 68000 core, on-chip MMU, 2-channel DMA, I2C-bus
WI>It gets so little attention because an MMU is a really stupid thing
WI>to put on a single chip computer. Motarola even figured out that it
WI>wasn't such a great thing to have on general purpose processor chips,
WI>thus yielding the 68EC030 and 68EC040.
Actually depends if you need an MMU or not. If your running a
simple linear OS no problem. However UNIX etc can and likely
will make use of such options.
WI>I wish vendors would put direct-to-dram interfaces on their single
WI>chip computers. That would be cool...
I concure. The Z80 did something close to it by having built in
refresh for it. I think some micro controller could use the DRAM
interface mainly since it reduces the number of pins to use the
RAM.
STEPHEN CYBE...@TOZ.BUFFALO.NY.US
commiserated at Fri 05-08-1992 23:13:50
---
* SLMR 2.1a * Cogito ergo spud. (I think, therefore I yam.)
George Reimer
>of misc. digital applications. For example, I want a remote keyboard/LCD
>display in a box for my home control application. I can do this with a
>dozen or so SSIs and a UART, but it's a lot easier to just take a 8051,
>hook the 32 I/O pins directly to the keyboard and the display, and then
>write some software.
>
>
> gordon letwin
Hi Gordon,
Well, I've just spent the better part of the last two years
programming the 8051. I was not impressed. I mean , it's ok for what
it is but....
Now this year, we're onto a new design, and having been given
the oppotuninty to choose, we are using the hc11. It is simply a much
nicer device to program. Period. It's simply cleaner and easier to understand
and program and more powerful.
Just for an example, we're using the a version of the hc11 that
has 4k rom/192bytes ram in a standalone configuration as an I/O slave to a 68000.
One of the inputs is an infra-red keypad. The code for the keypad on the hc11
is less than 1/3 of what it was on the 8051.
There are numerous other advantages that the hc11 has to offer.
Well worth looking into.
--
_______________________________________
|---|---|line--upon--line---|---|---|---| watmath!watcgl!electro!george
|---|--building the foundations-|---|---|---| geo...@electro.com
George Reimer
>Do you think motorolla will make a microcontroller version of the
>68k? should be to hard.
>
They do! It's a real sexy 68332. A bit Pricey though.
Dennis Lou
>>
>>Do you think motorolla will make a microcontroller version of the
>>68k? should be to hard.
>>
>
>
>They do! It's a real sexy 68332. A bit Pricey though.
They are giving away free samples of the 68340 these days. It's code
compatible with the 68020. Their number is 1 800 845 MOTO.
(I'm not terribly sure of the '845' part. I'm sure someone will
correct me :-)
--
Dennis Lou || "But Yossarian, what if everyone thought that way?"
dl...@ucsd.edu || "Then I'd be crazy to think any other way!"
[backbone]!ucsd!dlou |+====================================================
dl...@ucsd.BITNET |Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to my high school.
John Moore
In article <gate.7g4...@toz.buffalo.ny.us> cybe...@toz.buffalo.ny.us (Cyberman) writes:
]Do you think motorolla will make a microcontroller version of the
]68k? should be to hard.
Look at the 68332.
More importantly, why doesn't Intel make an imbedded microcontroller
version of the 8086? It would be code compatable with a PC, which would
be a gigantic plus.
--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
jo...@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!jo...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection. Now that's an
idea. Copy it into your .signature today!
Chris Richmond
In article <1992May9.144938.9033@anasaz>, john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:
>
> More importantly, why doesn't Intel make an imbedded microcontroller
> version of the 8086? It would be code compatable with a PC, which would
> be a gigantic plus.
>
>
> --
> John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253 (602-951-9326)
> jo...@anasazi.com
The 80x186xx is used quite often as a microcontroller/embedded processor.
There are several new versions that do some neat things (fast, low power,
etc). They do lack A/D though.
In addition, We sell a 80376 which is basicly (sp?) a 386sx (less the ability to
run DOS).
--
Chris Richmond | Internet: cric...@sedona.intel.com
Intel, Corp. C3-21 | Phone: (602)-554-8827
5000 W. Chandler Blvd. | This crazy is a world place.
Chandler, AZ 85226 | My think losing I'm mind.
Grant Edwards
:
: What kinds of single-chip configurations are available for the 68HC11?
:
Part EPROM ROM EEPROM RAM
68HC11A8 0 8K 512 256
68HC11A1 0 0 512 256
68HC11A0 0 0 0 256
68HC11A2 0 0 2K 256
68HC811A8 0 0 8K+512 256 EEPROM emulation of A8
68HC11E9 0 12K 512 512
68HC11E1 0 0 512 512
68HC11E0 0 0 0 512
68HC11E2 0 0 2K 256
68HC11D3 0 4K 0 192 low-cost 40pin part
68HC711D3 4K 0 0 192 (OTP)
68HC11F1 0 0 512 1K non-muxed bus
This list is a couple years old. I believe that there is now a part
with a 24K ROM, and also a bigger OTP of some sort.
--
Grant Edwards |Yow! I want the presidency
Rosemount Inc. |so bad I can already taste
|the hors d'oeuvres.
gra...@aquarius.rosemount.com |
Peter Desnoyers
>More importantly, why doesn't Intel make an imbedded microcontroller
>version of the 8086? It would be code compatable with a PC, which would
>be a gigantic plus.
Look at the V-series processors from NEC. Among other things, the series
includes the uDP70322 and 332 (or something like that) which are sort of
80186 clones with 16K internal ROM or UV EPROM. They're supposed to be
MSDOS compatible.
disclaimer - I've never used them - I'm just going from the data book.
Peter Desnoyers
--
John Nagle
>john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:
>>More importantly, why doesn't Intel make an imbedded microcontroller
>>version of the 8086? It would be code compatable with a PC, which would
>>be a gigantic plus.
>Look at the V-series processors from NEC. Among other things, the series
>includes the uDP70322 and 332 (or something like that) which are sort of
>80186 clones with 16K internal ROM or UV EPROM. They're supposed to be
>MSDOS compatible.
I've used V-series CPUs in embedded applications, and found them
quite nice to use. I used TopSpeed Modula II with a CuBit V40 board
(STD bus), cross-compiled from a PC. These chips are the next step
up from the 8051/68HC11 level.
For Motorola fans, there's the Phillips/Signetics 68070, which is
an all-CMOS 68010-compatible embedded CPU with on-chip segmented MMU,
on-chip DMA, and various I/O devices. This is the chip inside CD-I
players. I have a sample in a box, but I've never used it.
John Nagle
Adrian Godwin
>
>In addition, We sell a 80376 which is basicly (sp?) a 386sx (less the ability to
>run DOS).
>--
> Chris Richmond | Internet: cric...@sedona.intel.com
> Intel, Corp. C3-21 | Phone: (602)-554-8827
What a pleasant idea - the best from intel for a long time !
When I read this, I hoped to see that it recognises that it's running DOS and turns
belly-up in disgust :-) - but I see it just omits the 8086-mode support.
I wonder how much silicon that saves ? And if it's actually any cheaper, given the
vast number of 386s that are sold?
Jeff Humphrey
>>>version of the 8086? It would be code compatable with a PC, which would
>>>be a gigantic plus.
The 80186 and 80188 fit this bill ... they have a superset of the
80x86 instructions ... DMA channels, timers, interrupt controllers,
and cute little address decoders ... all in one chip. I've used
the 80186 (10mhz) before and liked it very much.
If you like single boards ... a company (with which I have no ties)
called R.L.C. Enterprises sells boards based on the above chips.
They are kind of expensive ... but seem to be of good quality.
R.L.C. Enterprises: 4800 Templeton Rd * Atascadero, CA 93422
(805) 466-9717 (they have a nice catalog too :-)
I apologize if someone got to this before I did ... I haven't been
watching the thread ..
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#include "standard.disclaimer"
This is my signature. There are many like it but this one is mine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill O'Donnell
:
: Part EPROM ROM EEPROM RAM
: 68HC11A8 0 8K 512 256
: 68HC11A1 0 0 512 256
: 68HC11A0 0 0 0 256
: 68HC11A2 0 0 2K 256
: 68HC811A8 0 0 8K+512 256 EEPROM emulation of A8
: 68HC11E9 0 12K 512 512
: 68HC11E1 0 0 512 512
: 68HC11E0 0 0 0 512
: 68HC11E2 0 0 2K 256
: 68HC11D3 0 4K 0 192 low-cost 40pin part
: 68HC711D3 4K 0 0 192 (OTP)
: 68HC11F1 0 0 512 1K non-muxed bus
:
: This list is a couple years old. I believe that there is now a part
: with a 24K ROM, and also a bigger OTP of some sort.
Here are some of the others...not sure if shipping yet:
68HC11N4 0 24K 640 768 8-bit D/A, A/D; coprocessor; 4Mhz non-mux bus
68HC117N4 24K 0 640 768 8-bit D/A, A/D; coprocessor; 4Mhz non-mux bus
68HC11M2 0 32K 0 1.25K 8-bit D/A, A/D; coprocessor; 4Mhz non-mux bus
68HC117M2 32K 0 0 1.25K 8-bit D/A, A/D; coprocessor; 4Mhz non-mux bus
68HC11P2 32K 0 640 1K 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 3 SCI's
68HC117P2 0 32K 640 1K 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 3 SCI's
68HC11K4 24K 0 640 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 62 i/o
68HC11K4 0 24K 640 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 62 i/o
68HC11KA4 24K 0 640 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 51 i/o
68HC11K3 24K 0 0 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 62 i/o
68HC11K1 0 0 640 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 62 i/o
68HC11K0 0 0 0 768 8-bit A/D; 4Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 37 i/o
68HC11G5 0 16K 0 512 10-bit A/D; 2Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 66 i/o
68HC11G7 0 24K 0 512 10-bit A/D; 2Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 66 i/o
68HC117G5 16K 0 0 512 10-bit A/D; 2Mhz non-mux bus; 4 PWM's; 66 i/o
68HC11E20 0 20K 512 768 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 38 i/o
68HC11L6 0 16K 512 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 46 i/o
68HC117L6 16K 0 512 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 46 i/o
68HC11L5 0 16K 0 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 46 i/o
68HC11L1 0 0 512 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 46 i/o
68HC11L0 0 0 0 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 30 i/o
68HC117E9 12K 0 512 512 8-bit A/D; 3Mhz non-mux bus; 38 i/o
68HC11A7 0 8K 0 256 eepromless version of A8
68HC11J6 0 16K 0 512 2Mhz non-mux bus; 54 i/o
68HC117J6 16K 0 0 512 2Mhz non-mux bus; 54 i/o
68HC11D0 0 0 0 192 3Mhz non-mux bus; 14 i/o
--Bill
Robert Bencze
XT clone a JUKO ST motherboard....I cant figure out the
DIP switch settings to get the motherboard to recognize
it as anything other than a CGA. When I try to use it in an EGA mode,
like with CSHOW841, the sync is completely wacko...
Does anyone have a tech manual for said card, and could
tell me what the settings should be for the switches and
the Jumpers?
Thanx in advance...