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Need Help Identifying Ceramic Capacitor
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World wide137
Mar 2, 2021, 9:23:53 PM3/2/21
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Hello Folks. I need some help in identifying a ceramic capacitor on an RF signal generator from the 50's. The capacitor is off the power supply. The shape is a circular disk about 1cm in diameter with the following markings - HI-Q 2X .01. Any help greatly appreciate.
Phil Allison
Mar 2, 2021, 9:35:21 PM3/2/21
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worldw...@gmail.com wrote:
==========================
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960s-Ceramic-Disk-Circle-D-Capacitor-2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984
A pic would be useful.
..... Phil
==========================
> Hello Folks. I need some help in identifying a ceramic capacitor on an RF signal generator from the 50's.
The capacitor is off the power supply. The shape is a circular disk about 1cm in diameter with the following
markings - HI-Q 2X .01.
** Is is dual cap with 3 legs like this one ?
The capacitor is off the power supply. The shape is a circular disk about 1cm in diameter with the following
markings - HI-Q 2X .01.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960s-Ceramic-Disk-Circle-D-Capacitor-2x-01-uf-1-4kv-Guitar-Tone-02-/123856474984
A pic would be useful.
..... Phil
World wide137
Mar 2, 2021, 9:43:50 PM3/2/21
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Thanks Phil. The capacitor has two legs, here's a picture of it. -Norm
http://printque.us/capacitor.png
http://printque.us/capacitor.png
World wide137
Mar 2, 2021, 9:51:51 PM3/2/21
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I should mention that this capacitor is in a Precision signal generator, model E-200-C.
Phil Allison
Mar 2, 2021, 10:17:18 PM3/2/21
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worldw...@gmail.com wrote:
=================================
See bottom of this page:
https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=363692
So it's a high voltage, ceramic cap.
Good replacement would be a 0.01uF, 2kV ceramic like this:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/CK45-E3DD103ZYVNA/?qs=eSfX1CQlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D
Many other sources.
......... Phil
=================================
> I should mention that this capacitor is in a Precision signal generator, model E-200-C.
That cap is in the AC supply circuit - right?
See bottom of this page:
https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=363692
So it's a high voltage, ceramic cap.
Good replacement would be a 0.01uF, 2kV ceramic like this:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/CK45-E3DD103ZYVNA/?qs=eSfX1CQlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D
Many other sources.
......... Phil
Phil Allison
Mar 3, 2021, 1:00:06 AM3/3/21
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Phil Allison wrote:
=================
..... Phil
=================
> Good replacement would be a 0.01uF, 2kV ceramic like this:
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/CK45-E3DD103ZYVNA/?qs=eSfX1CQlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D
>
> Many other sources.
** Be nice idea to fit a 3- core power lead and earth the thing while you are at it.
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/CK45-E3DD103ZYVNA/?qs=eSfX1CQlHqqfWLOcs5KSTQ%3D%3D
>
> Many other sources.
..... Phil
Peter W.
Mar 3, 2021, 8:47:57 AM3/3/21
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That looks very much like an older ceramic safety capacitor. 2X today would be written as X2. That being "X-type, Ceramic Class 2". Their purpose is to minimize EMI/RFI interference - something that makes sense in an SG.
The X means that it is to go between the line-cord leads (hot and neutral). 2X means it will tolerate a peak voltage pulse of 2,500 while in operation.
More explanation here: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/safety-capacitor-class-x-and-class-y-capacitors/
Mouser-available Vishay-made device here: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/427/564r565r-1762222.pdf
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
The X means that it is to go between the line-cord leads (hot and neutral). 2X means it will tolerate a peak voltage pulse of 2,500 while in operation.
More explanation here: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/technical-articles/safety-capacitor-class-x-and-class-y-capacitors/
Mouser-available Vishay-made device here: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/427/564r565r-1762222.pdf
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
World wide137
Mar 3, 2021, 9:00:57 AM3/3/21
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Phil - Appreciate the input and link to Mouser. I've contemplated replacing with a 3-prong cord but there seems to be some who say a two prong is better for a sound generator as to not pick up any interference off the ground from other devices. I'm a hobbyist so my depth of knowledge isn't so deep as to accept or refute their claims so I've just left it for now. Cheers. -Norm
Peter W.
Mar 3, 2021, 9:23:50 AM3/3/21
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www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=363692
https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/e-200-schematic.jpeg
Might help in the restoration process.
On the 2/3 conductor line cord: If you look at the schematic - there are two (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is the same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-types as the are between the hot and the neutral. I will not presume that the common ground is also the case even though that is both very likely and common, but you can check that easily yourself - is there continuity between the case and the chassis? If so, go ahead and install a 3-wire cord, grounding to the case. If not do some more checks before going to three wires so that you do not cause any damage. Also, when the device is in operation, is there any leakage (VOM on AC, case-to-good-ground: Any voltage showing?)?
https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/e-200-schematic.jpeg
Might help in the restoration process.
On the 2/3 conductor line cord: If you look at the schematic - there are two (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is the same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-types as the are between the hot and the neutral. I will not presume that the common ground is also the case even though that is both very likely and common, but you can check that easily yourself - is there continuity between the case and the chassis? If so, go ahead and install a 3-wire cord, grounding to the case. If not do some more checks before going to three wires so that you do not cause any damage. Also, when the device is in operation, is there any leakage (VOM on AC, case-to-good-ground: Any voltage showing?)?
World wide137
Mar 3, 2021, 9:24:43 AM3/3/21
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Peter - Thank you for the explanation, I had a heck of a time looking for this on Google. I guess, I wasn't sure on how to search for it. Searching for what was printed on the actual capacitor did not bring up much. Here is a picture of the whole thing. This capacitor is run across the the two chokes. Cheers. -Norm
http://printque.us/IMG_5103.jpg
http://printque.us/IMG_5103.jpg
Peter W.
Mar 3, 2021, 9:48:18 AM3/3/21
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Norm:
A few things:
a) There are many versions of this unit over the years, so the differences between the schematic and what you have are no surprise.
b) There is no reason to remove the tubular ceramic caps - I believe that the restoration page does mention that. They tend to be pretty stable over the years.
c) I would restore to the schematic as shown: http://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/img_5750_med.jpeg
d) I see where the ground lug is riveted to the copper cover - and that the cover appears to be sheet-metal-screwed to the case. If so, a 3-wire cord is good, with the ground wire going to the center lug of the three.
Take your time. That is a 'popular' unit within the hobby, and worth the effort if you want vintage service gear to go with the vintage radios.
A few things:
a) There are many versions of this unit over the years, so the differences between the schematic and what you have are no surprise.
b) There is no reason to remove the tubular ceramic caps - I believe that the restoration page does mention that. They tend to be pretty stable over the years.
c) I would restore to the schematic as shown: http://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/img_5750_med.jpeg
d) I see where the ground lug is riveted to the copper cover - and that the cover appears to be sheet-metal-screwed to the case. If so, a 3-wire cord is good, with the ground wire going to the center lug of the three.
Take your time. That is a 'popular' unit within the hobby, and worth the effort if you want vintage service gear to go with the vintage radios.
World wide137
Mar 3, 2021, 9:57:16 AM3/3/21
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You are correct, Peter, that is how the copper cover interacts with the case. There has indeed been several updates to this model, I have 4 different schematics, all similar but slightly different. Of the four, none matches my version perfectly. Thanks again for you input, they've been very helpful. Cheers. -Norm
Phil Allison
Mar 3, 2021, 3:39:04 PM3/3/21
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worldw...@gmail.com wrote:
========================
** Warning:
The case of the unit will be floating at * 60volts AC* with no safety ground attached.
That AC voltage ( with plenty of noise) will be coupled via 0.02 uF into the ground of any earthed reciever.
Likely make it hum and buzz audibly.
Your RF gene has only a 400Hz output for convenience.
Earthing it is way safer.
...... Phil
========================
> Phil - Appreciate the input and link to Mouser. I've contemplated replacing with a 3-prong cord but
there seems to be some who say a two prong is better for a sound generator as to not pick up any
interference off the ground from other devices. I'm a hobbyist so my depth of knowledge isn't so
deep as to accept or refute their claims so I've just left it for now. Cheers. -Norm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there seems to be some who say a two prong is better for a sound generator as to not pick up any
interference off the ground from other devices. I'm a hobbyist so my depth of knowledge isn't so
deep as to accept or refute their claims so I've just left it for now. Cheers. -Norm
** Warning:
The case of the unit will be floating at * 60volts AC* with no safety ground attached.
That AC voltage ( with plenty of noise) will be coupled via 0.02 uF into the ground of any earthed reciever.
Likely make it hum and buzz audibly.
Your RF gene has only a 400Hz output for convenience.
Earthing it is way safer.
...... Phil
Phil Allison
Mar 3, 2021, 3:45:01 PM3/3/21
to
Peter Wanker Rides Again:
===========================
> www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=363692
>
> https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/e-200-schematic.jpeg
Those two cap are *OBVIOUSLY* connected from hot AC wires to ground.
Y class caps with not common back in the day.
...... Phil
===========================
> www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=363692
>
> https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/_Media/e-200-schematic.jpeg
>
> On the 2/3 conductor line cord: If you look at the schematic - there are two (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is the same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-types as the are between the hot and the neutral.
** Weicky has wanked himself blind.
> On the 2/3 conductor line cord: If you look at the schematic - there are two (2) 0.01uF safety caps in series with a ground between them - which is the same common ground throughout the system. And, by the way, those are X-types as the are between the hot and the neutral.
Those two cap are *OBVIOUSLY* connected from hot AC wires to ground.
Y class caps with not common back in the day.
...... Phil
Peter W.
Mar 4, 2021, 7:07:03 AM3/4/21
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Wrong again. Once more the drongo from down under, the official village idiot of this venue has outdone itself.
Read the schematic. The caps do cross from hot to neutral. That they are *also* grounded does not change the issue. What happens when/if the ground fails?
Oh, both X and Y capacitors have existed in common use since very roughly 1926, with research in ceramic materials starting in the mid-teens, perfected in the very early 1920s. I know that Australia is a technical wasteland, but really!
Read the schematic. The caps do cross from hot to neutral. That they are *also* grounded does not change the issue. What happens when/if the ground fails?
Oh, both X and Y capacitors have existed in common use since very roughly 1926, with research in ceramic materials starting in the mid-teens, perfected in the very early 1920s. I know that Australia is a technical wasteland, but really!
World wide137
Mar 4, 2021, 11:48:35 AM3/4/21
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For the sake of accurate info, I mistakenly reported that this capacitor has 2 two legs, upon closer inspection, it has three legs - two outer legs attach to the the chokes and center one attached to the ground terminal of the copper shield that attaches to the signal generator's chassis. Sorry for the earlier misreported response. Cheers. -Norm
On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:43:50 PM UTC-5, World wide137 wrote:
> Thanks Phil. The capacitor has two legs, here's a picture of it. -Norm
>
> http://printque.us/capacitor.png
> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:35:21 PM UTC-5
> >
On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:43:50 PM UTC-5, World wide137 wrote:
> Thanks Phil. The capacitor has two legs, here's a picture of it. -Norm
>
> http://printque.us/capacitor.png
> On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:35:21 PM UTC-5
> >
Phil Allison
Mar 4, 2021, 6:30:06 PM3/4/21
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Peter Wanker is the World's Biggest IDIOT wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong again.
** Fraid I am dead right again.
> Read the schematic. The caps do cross from hot to neutral.
** No they fucking don't.
Each goes *direct* to chassis ground.
>That they are *also* grounded does not change the issue.
** It totally changes the issue of how the cap is connected - cunthead.
> What happens when/if the ground fails?
** The gene has no safety ground - just a chassis.
That is why I told the OP to fit a 3 wire cord.
> Oh, both X and Y capacitors have existed in common use since very roughly 1926,
** Modern X and Y class caps are are different animals.
For decades, Yanks used ordinary DC rated caps for the job in audio gear like guitar amps - now called "death caps".
Fucking stupid idea.
..... Phil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong again.
** Fraid I am dead right again.
> Read the schematic. The caps do cross from hot to neutral.
Each goes *direct* to chassis ground.
>That they are *also* grounded does not change the issue.
> What happens when/if the ground fails?
That is why I told the OP to fit a 3 wire cord.
> Oh, both X and Y capacitors have existed in common use since very roughly 1926,
For decades, Yanks used ordinary DC rated caps for the job in audio gear like guitar amps - now called "death caps".
Fucking stupid idea.
..... Phil
Phil Allison
Mar 4, 2021, 6:33:23 PM3/4/21
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worldw...@gmail.com wrote:
----------------------------------
** How come the third lead is *missing* in your pic?
So the one I sent you a pic of *was* RIGHT !!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------
** How come the third lead is *missing* in your pic?
So the one I sent you a pic of *was* RIGHT !!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
World wide137
Mar 4, 2021, 6:56:29 PM3/4/21
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Phil - Based on the angle that I looked at it the first time, the center lead was tucked under going to the ground pin on the terminal strip and I missed it. Yes, you were correct with the eBay photo you sent. Cheers. -Norm
Phil Allison
Mar 4, 2021, 8:42:49 PM3/4/21
to
worldw...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Phil - Based on the angle that I looked at it the first time, the center lead was tucked under going
> to the ground pin on the terminal strip and I missed it. Yes, you were correct with the eBay photo you sent.
> Cheers. -Norm
** Nice to have that one cleared up finally.
>
> Phil - Based on the angle that I looked at it the first time, the center lead was tucked under going
> to the ground pin on the terminal strip and I missed it. Yes, you were correct with the eBay photo you sent.
> Cheers. -Norm
...... Phil
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