splice fail

[newb]

My Sennheiser HD 202 headphones developed a short in one channel about ~8" from the plug. I cut the wire before and afterwards, joined the wire, tested and didn't experience any sound. I disconnected the splice and attached the bear wires from one side of the headphones to a pair of wires entering a speaker on my home system. No sound. I cut another 10" off and tested that section for resistance - that failed (all 4 wires joined on both sides of the 10" section). The phones aren't designed with maintenance in mind so I can't do a resistance test at the speaker ends.

Maybe this has something to do with the wire used in the headphones. There are two pairs (red/copper, green/copper) of stranded copper wrapped around nylon fibers. Does this type of wire have a proper name or require special considerations when splicing?

Was attaching these wires onto my home speaker out a valid test? Ugh, splice fail ... I'm not a 10 year old girl but today I feel like one ....

[Charles]

"newb" wrote in message
news:9461012.1621.1316373948844.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prgd31...

1/ how did you determine that it was a short and the distance from the plug?
By flexing? Could have been an open ... more likely.
2/ speakers need more current than headphones ... probably not a valid test.
3/ stereo headphones ... four wires.
4/ some ten year old girls can fix this for you!

[Dave Platt]

In article <j55n1l$ep0$1...@dont-email.me>,

Charles <charles...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Maybe this has something to do with the wire used in the headphones. There
>are two pairs (red/copper, green/copper) of stranded copper wrapped around
>nylon fibers. Does this type of wire have a proper name or require special
>considerations when splicing?

I've heard it referred to as "tinsel wire". Sennheiser is well-known
for using it. This sort of wire is not trivial to solder
successfully... something about the insulation on the individual (very
fine) strands, I believe.

If I recall correctly, you have to either remove the insulation via a
nasty chemical stripper, or tin the wires by dipping the strand into a
solder pot at the proper temperature (with appropriate flux). Simply
using a standard soldering iron and a coil of electronic solder often
does not work... the insulation doesn't burn off properly and the
solder never reaches the underlying metal.

--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Jamie]

Dave Platt wrote:

> In article <j55n1l$ep0$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Charles <charles...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Maybe this has something to do with the wire used in the headphones. There
>>are two pairs (red/copper, green/copper) of stranded copper wrapped around
>>nylon fibers. Does this type of wire have a proper name or require special
>>considerations when splicing?
>
>
> I've heard it referred to as "tinsel wire". Sennheiser is well-known
> for using it. This sort of wire is not trivial to solder
> successfully... something about the insulation on the individual (very
> fine) strands, I believe.
>
> If I recall correctly, you have to either remove the insulation via a
> nasty chemical stripper, or tin the wires by dipping the strand into a
> solder pot at the proper temperature (with appropriate flux). Simply
> using a standard soldering iron and a coil of electronic solder often
> does not work... the insulation doesn't burn off properly and the
> solder never reaches the underlying metal.
>

Acetone.

Jamie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:34:57 -0700, dpl...@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
wrote:

>If I recall correctly, you have to either remove the insulation via a
>nasty chemical stripper, or tin the wires by dipping the strand into a
>solder pot at the proper temperature (with appropriate flux). Simply
>using a standard soldering iron and a coil of electronic solder often
>does not work... the insulation doesn't burn off properly and the
>solder never reaches the underlying metal.

Nope. In my bad old days of phone phreaking, it was sometimes
necessary to repair a telephone handset coil cord. Same stuff as the
earphones... tinsel.

To make a decent connection, strip off the outer jacket CAREFULLY
exposing the tinsel and some silk strands. Take a piece of stranded
wire, strip off about 3 inches, cut one strand off, and wrap it around
the tinsel. Start by winding a few turns on the remaining insulating
jacket for strength, and then wind the wire around the tinsel and
silk. You should then be able to solder to the wire.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Nelson wrote:
>
> My wife goes through a set of iPod earphones every month. You would
> think someone would develop a cord design that wouldn't fatigue. I
> have found that attempting to locate the break and repair it is usually
> a fool's errand.

It depends. All of mine break at the point the wire enters the headphone.
I now have 4 pair "in the queue" waiting for me to open them up, and cut
the wire and resolder it.

My son is the exact opposite, he always breaks the wire where it connects
to the plug. I sometimes put new plugs on them, but the last set was under
warranty, and I told him to take them back.

Some people have patterns, some don't. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Making your enemy reliant on software you support is the best revenge.

[malua mada!]

On Sep 19, 3:39 am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com>
wrote:

> Nelson wrote:

> My son is the exact opposite, he always breaks the wire where it connects
> to the plug. I sometimes put new plugs on them

<snip>

Once you chop off the molded shell on the plug and clean it up it is
fairly easy to solder to, easier IMO than the store bought tab/ shell
deals. I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
a dough stick - cut off required amount, knead to mix, apply). Tubing
for flex relief...

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 9/19/2011 10:44 AM, malua mada! wrote:
> I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
> a dough stick

I found out the hard way that JB Weld, as good as it is, is
conductive.

Jeff


--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:03:56 -0500, Jeffrey Angus <grend...@aim.com>
wrote:

>On 9/19/2011 10:44 AM, malua mada! wrote:
>> I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
>> a dough stick
>
>I found out the hard way that JB Weld, as good as it is, is
>conductive.
>Jeff

Huh? The JB Weld FAQ claims it's not conductive (even though it
contains iron filings).
<http://jbweld.net/faq.php#faq009>
Q: Will J-B Weld conduct electricity?
A: No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It
is an insulator.

[Jeffrey Angus]

On 9/20/2011 1:53 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:03:56 -0500, Jeffrey Angus<grend...@aim.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/19/2011 10:44 AM, malua mada! wrote:
>>> I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
>>> a dough stick
>>
>> I found out the hard way that JB Weld, as good as it is, is
>> conductive.
>> Jeff
>
> Huh? The JB Weld FAQ claims it's not conductive (even though it
> contains iron filings).
> <http://jbweld.net/faq.php#faq009>
> Q: Will J-B Weld conduct electricity?
> A: No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It
> is an insulator.

Perhaps they think it's not. I glued a thermal fuse back to
the case of the crystal oven in a Cushman CE-3 after repairing
the oven control. Quite impressive when I plugged it back in.
(The fuse is connected to 120 vac)

I think their answer is in regard to people that want to use it
as a liquid solder.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:32:29 -0500, Jeffrey Angus <grend...@aim.com>

wrote:

>On 9/20/2011 1:53 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:03:56 -0500, Jeffrey Angus<grend...@aim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/19/2011 10:44 AM, malua mada! wrote:
>>>> I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
>>>> a dough stick
>>>
>>> I found out the hard way that JB Weld, as good as it is, is
>>> conductive.
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Huh? The JB Weld FAQ claims it's not conductive (even though it
>> contains iron filings).
>> <http://jbweld.net/faq.php#faq009>
>> Q: Will J-B Weld conduct electricity?
>> A: No. J-B Weld is not considered to be a conductor. It
>> is an insulator.
>
>Perhaps they think it's not. I glued a thermal fuse back to
>the case of the crystal oven in a Cushman CE-3 after repairing
>the oven control. Quite impressive when I plugged it back in.
>(The fuse is connected to 120 vac)
>
>I think their answer is in regard to people that want to use it
>as a liquid solder.
>
>Jeff

The problem is that the JB Weld goo is mostly epoxy, not metal. There
are wide insulating spaces between the metal filings. In order to be
conductive, the metal filings would need to overlap, as happens with
the flat sheet flakes of graphite in Aquadag (crt shielding) and
aeromatic solvent based silver shielding coating.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Conductive-Glue-and-Glue-a-Circuit/>

My guess(tm) is that one lead of the CE-3 thermal fuse was connected
to the metal case, or that one lead of the thermal fuse touched
ground. I won't bore with my opinion of the CE-3 and Cushman.

I don't have any JB Weld handy, but I'll drop by the hardware store,
buy some, make a few measurements, and send you the bill.

[malua mada!]

>
> >>> On 9/19/2011 10:44 AM, malua mada! wrote:
> >>>> I then use Epoxy filler to shape a unique plug body (comes as
> >>>> a dough stick

>

> The problem is that the JB Weld goo is mostly epoxy, not metal.  

I meant Epoxy Putty from Ace hardware. Play dough consistency to
start with, easy to shape, and it hasn't thrown a spark yet!

[newb]

I just read the wiki and some other bits about tinsel wire. Yep, that sounds like the stuff I'm dealing with. And yep, non-trivial. I suppose I'll just buy a new pair of headphones and crank up some Jade Warrior. Thanks Dave!