100v--> 10V Trans. on 120V
Michael Kennedy
Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
transformer.
Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is going to output 12V on
120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see what the
voltage is.
TIA
Mike
nesesu
Yes, BUT.
Iron transformers are designed with only sufficient turns on the
primary to prevent the core beginning to saturate at the highest
expected voltate [~+10% or so] so if you try and run a transformer
designed for 100V nominal on 120V nominal the core will likely be
running into the saturation curve. This can give three effects: the
primary current draw will be excessive causing the wire to overheat,
the core running into saturation will overheat and finally, the output
waveform may be clipped causing a reduced output voltage compared to
what would be expected from the turns ratio. However, that transformer
may be specified for the Japanese 50Hz power in which case there will
be some extra margin so it could operate okay on 120V 60Hz [100V *
60/50Hz]
In other words, it is okay to run a transformer on lower primary
voltage than specified but not higher and it is okay to run a
transformer on a higher frequency than specified but not lower
[assuming typical power line frequencies 25-60Hz].
Neil S.
Meat Plow
If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc or
there abouts.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
Phil Allison
"nesesu"
Iron transformers are designed with only sufficient turns on the
primary to prevent the core beginning to saturate at the highest
expected voltate [~+10% or so]
** Only true for toroidal an C-core types - it is common practice to
allow the core of an E-core type to operate into some or even a lot of
saturation. The practice is almost universal with small PSUs containing
E-cores.
so if you try and run a transformer
designed for 100V nominal on 120V nominal the core will likely be
running into the saturation curve.
** See above.
This can give three effects: the
primary current draw will be excessive causing the wire to overheat,
the core running into saturation will overheat
** The operative word is "can" - chances are that the unit will tolerate
the increase.
and finally, the output
waveform may be clipped causing a reduced output voltage compared to
what would be expected from the turns ratio.
** Fraid you have gone right off the rails here.
Core saturation does NOT cause waveform clipping - for the simple reason
that the current draw increases only around the times of zero voltage on the
AC wave.
However, that transformer
may be specified for the Japanese 50Hz power in which case there will
be some extra margin so it could operate okay on 120V 60Hz [100V *
60/50Hz]
** Correct - almost all Japanese ( local market ) power transformers are
built for 100 volt AC @ 50 Hz operation.
About half the country has 50Hz power.
.... Phil
David Nebenzahl
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>
>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I have
>> a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn transformer.
>> Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is going to output 12V
>> on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>
>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see what
>
> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc or
> there abouts.
How do you get DC out of a transformer? Must be a really special one ...
Of course, it's impossible to tell from the O.P. whether the thing in
question is really a transformer (outputs AC) or a power supply (outputs
DC).
To the OP, it would help us to know. What does it say on the wall wart?
Should say something like "10 VAC" or "10 VDC" or some such.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
Meat Plow
> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I
>>> have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>>> transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is
>>> going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>
>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see what
>>
>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc or
>> there abouts.
>
> How[SLAP]
Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
David Nebenzahl
Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
--
How To Access Wikileaks
These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:
http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl
And these IP addresses can be used:
Meat Plow
> On 12/3/2010 8:35 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:20:17 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I
>>>>> have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>>>>> transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is
>>>>> going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see
>>>>> what
>>>>
>>>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc or
>>>> there abouts.
>>>
>>> How[SLAP]
>>
>> Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
>
> Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
Love it when I back up trolls like you into a corner.
David Nebenzahl
What you perceive as some kind of "victory" is just your twisted
masturbatory fantasies, Meat Head ...
Wild_Bill
think.
The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer) outputs HV DC.
That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the kind used for a
game system power source, and the output isn't rectified.
--
Cheers,
WB
.............
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4cf988fd$0$2409$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
David Nebenzahl
> Having a DC output from a transformer is obviously more common that you
> think.
>
> The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer) outputs HV DC.
>
> That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the kind used for a
> game system power source, and the output isn't rectified.
OK, you win.
On a technicality.
Brenda Ann
"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
news:IdlKo.442218$pX3.2...@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
Having a DC output from a transformer is obviously more common that you
think.
The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer) outputs HV DC.
That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the kind used for a
game system power source, and the output isn't rectified.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technically, the input of those coils is AC (pulsating DC, more like square
waves than sine waves, but still AC). The output is DC because it only
outputs on the down cycle of the input (as a result of the collapsing
magnetic field). Even still, the output has some AC characteristics, such as
the slow decay time as opposed to the fast rise time as the current is
applied to the primary. The capacitor across the points helps slow the decay
even further, keeping the voltage peak higher, longer.
Mark Zacharias
news:IdlKo.442218$pX3.2...@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the same
little box. More and more they actually have little switching regulators in
there. Those are more efficient and can supply much more current, but they
usually don't last much more than about 15 months because they use such
crappy little capacitors in them, and they are virtually unserviceable.
Mark Z.
David Nebenzahl
> "Wild_Bill" <wb_wi...@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IdlKo.442218$pX3.2...@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>> Having a DC output from a transformer is obviously more common that
>> you think.
>>
>> The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer) outputs HV
>> DC.
>>
>> That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the kind
>> used for a game system power source, and the output isn't
>> rectified.
>>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4cf988fd$0$2409$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>>
>>> How do you get DC out of a transformer? Must be a really special
>>> one ...
>>>
>>> Of course, it's impossible to tell from the O.P. whether the
>>> thing in question is really a transformer (outputs AC) or a power
>>> supply (outputs DC).
>>>
>>> To the OP, it would help us to know. What does it say on the wall
>>> wart? Should say something like "10 VAC" or "10 VDC" or some
>>> such.
>
> Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the same
> little box. More and more they actually have little switching regulators in
> there. Those are more efficient and can supply much more current, but they
> usually don't last much more than about 15 months because they use such
> crappy little capacitors in them, and they are virtually unserviceable.
Yes, we know that. My point is that a lot of wall warts are just what
the O.P. called them--transformers--and that we really have no idea what
his is, based on what he posted.
More informations, please.
Michael Kennedy
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4cf988fd$0$2409$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I have
>>> a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn transformer.
>>> Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is going to output 12V
>>> on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>
>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see what
>>
>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc or
>> there abouts.
>
> How do you get DC out of a transformer? Must be a really special one ...
>
> Of course, it's impossible to tell from the O.P. whether the thing in
> question is really a transformer (outputs AC) or a power supply (outputs
> DC).
>
> To the OP, it would help us to know. What does it say on the wall wart?
> Should say something like "10 VAC" or "10 VDC" or some such.
>
>
DC 10V, although I doubt there is much inside of this thing when it comes to
electronics aside from a couple of diodes or a full wave bridge.
Michael Kennedy
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
Quote: Michael Kennedy
>Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
transformer.
/quote
Sorry I somehow forgot to write core a between iorn and transformer.
It is a 10vdc Iorn core transformer wall wart 50/60Hz 850mA. Not a switcher.
Most likely it has 4 diodes a fuse and possibly a small cap insde of it
along side the transformer. The regulation is inside of the nintendo itself.
David Nebenzahl
You don't understand.
No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that) converts
AC to AC.
If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer; it's
a DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)
So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
vdc" above.
Meat Plow
> On 12/3/2010 9:03 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:41:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2010 8:35 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:20:17 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I
>>>>>>> have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>>>>>>> transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is
>>>>>>> going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc
>>>>>> or there abouts.
>>>>>
>>>>> How[SLAP]
>>>>
>>>> Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
>>>
>>> Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
>>
>> Love it when I back up trolls like you into a corner.
>
> What you perceive
What I perceive is an idiot troll (you) backed into a corner.
Meat Plow
> Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the same
> little box. More and more they actually have little switching regulators
> in there. Those are more efficient and can supply much more current, but
> they usually don't last much more than about 15 months because they use
> such crappy little capacitors in them, and they are virtually
> unserviceable.
>
> Mark Z.
I've heard plenty of people refer to a wall wart as a transformer. The OP
gave no other specs than 10 volts. My reply was "if" it was rectified and
regulated the output should be around 10 volts with 120 in.
In Dave Nebenzahl's attempt to insult/discredit my reply his haste
caused a fail to notice or credit my word "if". It's a hurried cheap shot
and I would expect nothing less from someone whose experience, knowledge
and talents fall woefully short of mine.
Meat Plow
>> Quote: Michael Kennedy
>>>Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>> transformer.
>>
>> /quote
>>
>> Sorry I somehow forgot to write core a between iorn and transformer.
>> It is a 10vdc Iorn core transformer wall wart 50/60Hz 850mA. Not a
>> switcher. Most likely it has 4 diodes a fuse and possibly a small cap
>> insde of it along side the transformer. The regulation is inside of the
>> nintendo itself.
>
> You don't understand.
>
> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
Micheal a newbie? And condescendingly so. Alt.home.repair is a better
group for you to troll and is that away --------------->
SER is filled with those of intellect in-imaginably far superior to
yours.
David Nebenzahl
What I perceive is an unpleasant, belligerent and ill-mannered cur who
has a curious obsession with me ... get over it.
Meat Plow
Is you being bitch-slapped.
Archon
> On 12/4/2010 12:04 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4cfa8cbb$0$2411$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
Snip
> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
>
> A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
> frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that) converts
> AC to AC.
>
> If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer; it's
> a DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)
>
> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
> vdc" above.
>
>
From my memory of Nebenzahl postings on this group he's gone from
complete noob who knew zilch about electronics to the major critic of
other posters in less than a year, time for him to STFU .
JC
David Nebenzahl
So please point out what, if anything, is wrong with what I posted above.
Didn't think so.
[I'm no electronics expert, but I'm not a "complete noob" either.]
David Nebenzahl
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:07:47 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> What I perceive
>
> Is you being bitch-slapped.
q.e.d.
Michael Kennedy
"David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
Come on man... Give me a break.. Technically speaking, yes it is a "Power
Supply" but in it"s absolutely most simple form. I think had I said Power
supply from the beginning I would understand why people would be confused,
with most thinking of a SMPS. It is a transformer with a rectifier. I only
mentioned the 50/60 hz and the mA rating because of all the controversy.
Anyhow, the issue wasn't is it a power supply or not or if it contains
diodes or not....
I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
see if my guess was right.
Brenda Ann
"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
news:tYmdnXXTk7EdnGbR...@giganews.com...
Anyhow, the issue wasn't is it a power supply or not or if it contains
diodes or not....
I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
see if my guess was right.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It may actually be a bit higher than 12V output, given that for every AC
volt into the rectifier, you will normally get 1.414 DC volts after
rectification and filtering. Regardless, the regulation circuits in the
gaming console should be able to handle the extra voltage quite easily.
David Nebenzahl
> "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4cfabda2$0$2404$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
>> vdc" above.
>
> Come on man... Give me a break..
OK.
> Technically speaking, yes it is a "Power
> Supply" but in it"s absolutely most simple form. I think had I said Power
> supply from the beginning I would understand why people would be confused,
> with most thinking of a SMPS. It is a transformer with a rectifier.
Well, that's a power supply. Bare, nekkid, unregulated, but a power
supply nonetheless.
> I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
> see if my guess was right.
Your guess is probably right.
I'm most intrigued, though, by that "100 V" rating. Is that written on
the outside? Because that's a nonstandard voltage, at least for the
parts of the world I'm familiar with. Where are you? What's the line
voltage where you live?
Maybe it's just a "nominal" rating, like the 90-140 V or so that some
power supplies will handle. In any case, the advice that others have
given here, basically "don't sweat it, the device's regulation will take
care of things" is good.
Brenda Ann
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
news:4cfb0fae$0$2419$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
I'm most intrigued, though, by that "100 V" rating. Is that written on
the outside? Because that's a nonstandard voltage, at least for the
parts of the world I'm familiar with. Where are you? What's the line
voltage where you live?
Maybe it's just a "nominal" rating, like the 90-140 V or so that some
power supplies will handle. In any case, the advice that others have
given here, basically "don't sweat it, the device's regulation will take
care of things" is good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100V is a standard voltage in Japan. What's really interesting about Japan
is that they not only use 100/220V power, but also 50 AND 60 Hz line
frequencies.
David Nebenzahl
> "David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
> news:4cfb0fae$0$2419$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> I'm most intrigued, though, by that "100 V" rating. Is that written on
>> the outside? Because that's a nonstandard voltage, at least for the
>> parts of the world I'm familiar with. Where are you? What's the line
>> voltage where you live?
>>
>> Maybe it's just a "nominal" rating, like the 90-140 V or so that some
>> power supplies will handle. In any case, the advice that others have
>> given here, basically "don't sweat it, the device's regulation will take
>> care of things" is good.
>
> 100V is a standard voltage in Japan. What's really interesting about Japan
> is that they not only use 100/220V power, but also 50 AND 60 Hz line
> frequencies.
Butbutbut ... shouldn't that be 100/200 V? Usually the higher voltage is
double the lower one (two equal legs of the lower voltage). Here in
North American it's actually 120 & 240, at least nominally.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> Butbutbut ... shouldn't that be 100/200 V? Usually the higher voltage is
> double the lower one (two equal legs of the lower voltage). Here in
> North American it's actually 120 & 240, at least nominally.
Sorry I tuned in late, 100V is the standard line voltage in Japan.
I can't say what will happen to the device but it is an unregulated supply
it will put out 12 volts instead of 10, and get hot.
If that will damage the supply, or the device is hard to guess.
What I suggest to people who move here (Israel) from the US is to take the
supply to a good electronics store and they will sell you a replacememnt
that has the correct voltage, current supply and connector.
If that is not possible, and you can't get a local electronics person to
fit a proper supply (for example if the connector is unusual), then you
may want to go to a transformer manufacturer and make up a 120->100 volt
transformer. My guess is that a small one will cost $50-$75.
Here they are stock items (230-100) because due to the different power factor
(50Hz vs 60Hz line frequencyt) large motorized 120 volt appliances last longer
on 100v than 120.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
Phil Allison
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" ..
>
> Sorry I tuned in late, 100V is the standard line voltage in Japan.
>
> I can't say what will happen to the device but it is an unregulated supply
> it will put out 12 volts instead of 10, and get hot.
** Read the whole thread - imbecile.
Because Japan uses 50 Hz, the tranny will not run any hotter at 120 volts
at 60 Hz.
> If that will damage the supply, or the device is hard to guess.
** Guessing is always easy - imbecile.
> What I suggest to people who move here (Israel) from the US is to take the
> supply to a good electronics store and they will sell you a replacememnt
> that has the correct voltage, current supply and connector.
** Japan uses the same AC sockets as the USA.
There is simply no issue.
.... Phil
Meat Plow
> On 12/4/2010 4:36 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:07:47 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> What I perceive
>>
>> Is you being bitch-slapped.
>
> q.e.d.
Looks like things didn't go the way you wanted them huh?
...heh
Michael Kennedy
"Brenda Ann" <newsg...@fullspectrumradio.org> wrote in message
news:Zv-dnYWcwOzjhmbR...@giganews.com...
You are correct! In Tokyo and East Japan it is 100V 50Hz. In Osaka and West
Japan it is 100V 60Hz. Some appliances wont work in both reigions, but those
are mostly older. Things using mechanical timers (a bit rare these days in
Japan everything is digital now) always have a 50/60Hz switch.