airbags
Andrey
control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
Thank you.
michael turner
> I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
> control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.
Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.
> Or how
> can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
The car must be a bit smashed up after the airbags got deployed. Again
leave airbag deployment electronics to someone who knows what they're
doing.
As these are a *safety* item, and if they're not setup correctly they may
not deploy when needed, or could deploy when not needed, with the obvious
legal implications.
--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)
zvxr.gh...@ivetva.arg
Sofie
You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to stay
certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a horrific
accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
---------------
"michael turner" <zvxr.gh...@ivetva.arg> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.02.17....@ivetva.arg...
James Sweet
"Sofie" <so...@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1032t0g...@corp.supernews.com...
> Michael Turner:
> You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
> My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
> training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to
stay
> certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
> responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
> deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
> critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
> causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a
horrific
> accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
> --
The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
properly buckled occupants.
michael turner
> Michael Turner:
> You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
> My brother works for a GM dealer in town here and he had to go to factory
> training initially for 2 weeks and then refresher courses every year to stay
> certified..... as a certified airbag systems technician he has an awesome
> responsibility... just imagine the scenarios that you described..... not
> deploying when they are suppose to and someone ends up getting killed or
> critically injured...... and deploying when they are NOT suppose to and
> causing the driver to lose control of the automobile and causing a horrific
> accident where there is loss of life, injuries, properly loss, etc.
Yup I totally agree with you Daniel.
For the benefit of anyone who's never seen an airbag being deployed. This
page contains a video clip of one.
http://www.mobilityconversions.com/airbag_going_off.htm
BANG!
Tymanthius
Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can I
Sue?'
</soapbox>
"Sofie" <so...@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:1032t0g...@corp.supernews.com...
LASERandDVDfan
>> control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima.
>
>Leave it to someone who know what they're doing, has the right training,
>qualifications, test equipment, etc, etc.
... and is legally licensed to service SRS systems. - Reinhart
gothika
wrote:
><soapbox>
>
>Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can I
>Sue?'
libelous society.
If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.
LASERandDVDfan
Pretty much.
The only way an airbag can deploy out of its container within the short time
span in order to be effective as a supplemental restraint is by literally
exploding out of it.
The notion of someone getting their arm broken by the airbag when it deploys
while they were executing a manuver with the hand under the wheel is not just
merely possible, it has happened before! - Reinhart
gothika
Good point.
In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
and avoiding accidents in the first place.
Tymanthius
"gothika" <Vamp...@nettaxi.com> wrote in message
news:il0330lf4aerhb9hn...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:25:40 -0600, "Tymanthius" <tyman...@usa.net>
> wrote:
> ><soapbox>
> >
> >Not to mention that at least in America, it's 'Not My Fault' and 'Who Can
I
> >Sue?'
> Please! I get sick to death of hearing this crap about America being a
> libelous society.
> If corporations weren't so bottom line thinking we wouldn't HAVE so
> MANY consumer products that were deathtraps waiting to go off.
> You must be a Republican to so readily blame the victim.
<snip>
That's a silly assumption. Actually, I have very radical political views.
Can't stand the 2 party system in America, and I'm grieved that our form of
democracy is largely broken (although it's still better than many places
form of gov't).
And I don't assume it's the victims fault everytime. But many many of the
lawsuits are frivolous(sp?) as they are the result some idiot doing more
than s/he should or could.
Anyway, this isn't the place for such discussions, and I should have
refrained from phrasing it the way I did, although it is a valid warning.
Feel free to take them private if you believe you can keep up.
tymanthius-at-usa-dot-net
:)
electricked
Even if you are the best driver ever, you never know what driving
precautions the driver next to you is taking. So even if you drive safely,
someone else might hit you. Happens to all of us. I agree though, if you're
buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
collision). Sometimes more, is less.
--Viktor
James Sweet
"Tymanthius" <tyman...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:XDfYb.14365$kR3....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
I'd have to agree, the real world is dangerous, it can mame or kill, enter
at your own risk. If a product is blatantly dangerous to use as directed
then the manufacture should be at fault, if a product is capable of being
*misused* in a way that's dangerous and someone gets hurt, that's their own
damn fault.
Same with those silly cases of people trespassing and getting hurt sueing
the owner of the property, if you break into *my* house and manage to hurt
yourself, regardless of the circumstances you were not authorized to be
there and it should *not* be my fault what happens. I'm not republican
either, but this country has far too many lawyers.
James Sweet
> > >The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a
few
> > >stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending
up
> > >with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with
an
> > >airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I
know
> > >I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
> > >excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
> > >properly buckled occupants.
> > >
> > Good point.
> > In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
> > and avoiding accidents in the first place.
>
> Even if you are the best driver ever, you never know what driving
> precautions the driver next to you is taking. So even if you drive safely,
> someone else might hit you. Happens to all of us. I agree though, if
you're
> buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
> collision). Sometimes more, is less.
>
And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
[snip]
> And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
> sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
> I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
> don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
> their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.
And anyway, an airbag won't do you a bit of good in a rollover or
similar accident with multiple impacts. With a seatbelt, at least your
body doesn't go bouncing around the inside of the vehicle as it rolls.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
Broken pipe. Command flooded basement.
Mark (UK)
place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
getting splat! :-)
FoxyRick
Not so much an electronics issue, more an energetic materials one. You
do realise that air bags are deployed by a small charge of
*explosive*? The control unit is probably fine, since it is just a
g-force trigger to fire the explosives. Get some semtex, or just take
it to the repair shop and try not to hit lamp posts too hard next
time.
Leonard Caillouet
"electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message
news:LtidnbNCk5T...@comcast.com...
> if you're
> buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
> collision). Sometimes more, is less.
>
> --Viktor
Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
likely to cause injury.
So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe that we
shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries
than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
thing as research you know.
Leonard Caillouet
sparky
wrote:
In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
driving skills to become even worse.
Nick Hull
sparky <spa...@hell.com> wrote:
> >Good point.
> >In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
> >and avoiding accidents in the first place.
>
>
> In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
> that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
> behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
> driving skills to become even worse.
I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
when the brakes release.
--
free men own guns - slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
Jim Thompson
wrote:
I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
not a toy like a Saturn.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
John Woodgate
wrote (in <nhull-82ECAD....@corp.supernews.com>) about
'airbags', on Tue, 17 Feb 2004:
>I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
>bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
>brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
>sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
>when the brakes release.
Maybe they fitted AnaBolic Steroids by mistake.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
BOB URZ
Sofie wrote:
> Michael Turner:
> You are EXACTLY correct...... a huge liability and safety issue.
Yes, there is liability. yes you need to know what your doing.
Can you fix them yourself if your knowledgeable and prepared?
Yes.
I repaired them on my 1990 ford taurus. It took much research to do it.
Most aftermarket manuals have NO information on the airbag systems.
(due to liability issues no doubt). I had to get the Ford factory manuals
to find the information. I discovered many issues that can affect operation.
Just the grounding of the sensors can affect operation.
So in some cases, just undoing the sensors and prepping the mount
surface from rust and corrosion will do the trick.
You have to follow the shop manuals instructions. Usually, this involves
disconnecting the battery and powering down the car for x amount of time before
you touch anything. This is very important.
In my case, i regrounded the sensors and replaced a few.
Even after that, i still had a blinking air bag light.
After replacing the air bag diagnostic module, i finally got mine
fixed.
Mine was a older car. I used salvaged parts. Many people consider
this NOT kosher. My spin is if they were working on the car they came off of,
they should be usable on my car. and they were.
Better have used parts and no airbag light than a blinking light
and NO airbags. Is it a 100% guarantee they will be OK? NO.
But better than no airbags at all if they were disabled by a blinking
code.
The rules for working on airbags are having the factory manuals,
researching all the error code blinks and what they mean, and being
more than careful. Its not for the faint of heart. If your technically
competent, you can do it with the proper stuff. If your not,
pay someone to do it.
Bob
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
James Sweet
"FoxyRick" <KilledBySpam.com> wrote in message
news:eis33095s0vhghh6d...@4ax.com...
His issue is probably that the car won't start once the airbags are
deployed, IIRC it disables the engine computer.
James Sweet
"Leonard Caillouet" <n...@no.com> wrote in message
news:52nYb.301$f23.111@lakeread02...
No, I just believe that I shouldn't have an airbag in my own car and that
it's more likely to injure me than help me, immunizations and helmets are
like seatbelts, a no brainer.
James Sweet
"Nick Hull" <nh...@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:nhull-82ECAD....@corp.supernews.com...
A bad ABS system is worse than none at all, the ABS in my Volvo is quite
good and I've been pleased with it, didn't choose to have it, just
discovered it was there after I bought the car, would choose it in the
future if I could.
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:00:09 -0500, Nick Hull <nh...@access4less.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <gp44301urlvv8kvim...@4ax.com>,
>>sparky <spa...@hell.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Good point.
>>>>In my opinion more emphasis needs to be put on safe driving pracctices
>>>>and avoiding accidents in the first place.
>>>
>>>
>>>In North America they have advertised ABS brakes and air bags so much
>>>that most uneducated drivers believe thay are immortal when they get
>>>behind the wheel of a vehicle with them. This causes their poor
>>>driving skills to become even worse.
>>
>>I thought ABS would help so I got it (extra cost option) on the Saturn I
>>bought for my wife. It is worse than useless, on gravel it releases the
>>brakes unexpectedly when the vehicle was in perfect control. Often in a
>>sloped gravel parking lot the car will suddenly lunge at the next car
>>when the brakes release.
>
>
> I was exiting up a high speed curved ramp that joins I10 to US60 here
> in Phoenix. Some clown who missed his exit cut across the berm right
> into my path. I fully expected to hit him but the ABS gave me perfect
> braking in that curve with no slip. Now this was a real car, a Q45,
> not a toy like a Saturn.
>
> ...Jim Thompson
lol,
usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.
-Lasse
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
Aren't those airbags so "excessively powerful" to protect those who are
too stupid to wear a seatbelt?
I've heard of airbags deplying from minor parking accidents (maybe early
ones?) replacing the airbags, the steering wheel etc. and these days
probably the seats and the ceiling is very expensive ...
-Lasse
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> Yes, but don't the latest cars have thousands of airbags all over the
> place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
> glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
> getting splat! :-)
They're only good for one impact. If you roll a car (or, more likely an
SUV) without a seat belt, you'll do quite a bit of bouncing around
inside the car. Or through the windshield.
With a seat belt, I've seen people walk away from a rolled Jeep. In
fact, a co-worker drove hers away when her Jeep came to rest back on its
wheels. Needless to say, roll bars help as
well.
> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> > James Sweet wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >
> >>And IMO it's a no brainer to buckle up, as you say, accidents happen,
> >>sometimes someone else does something stupid and there's no way to avoid it,
> >>I always put my seatbelt on out of habbit when I get into a car, but then I
> >>don't really care if other people do it, if they'd like to risk dying that's
> >>their decision, just so long as it's not in my car.
> >
> >
> > And anyway, an airbag won't do you a bit of good in a rollover or
> > similar accident with multiple impacts. With a seatbelt, at least your
> > body doesn't go bouncing around the inside of the vehicle as it rolls.
> >
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
The only tools one needs in life:
WD-40 to make things go and duct tape to make them stop.
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards
> I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
> excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
> properly buckled occupants.
There have been "more than several" models of vehicle that have been
recalled because of airbags detonating randomly... (including the
previous-year-model of the car I drive :/) Having fired an airbag in
an open space just to see what it's like, I'm sure I NEVER want to see
it happen two feet in front of my face. I was raised in a country
where it is normal practice to get in the car and put on the seatbelt
as an atomic operation. I frankly don't believe the slight additional
protection of an airbag (assuming a correctly seated and belted
driver/passenger), is worth the risk.
As of 1997(?) North American-market cars are factory-fitted with
"second-generation" airbags that have approximately 1/2 the inflation
force of older first-generation airbags. I think it's likely you'll
find the inflation pressure of airbags in current-year vehicles is
pretty much the same worldwide.
One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.
Jim Thompson
<Pa...@Hovnanian.com> wrote:
>"Mark (UK)" wrote:
>>
>> Yes, but don't the latest cars have thousands of airbags all over the
>> place? Ones in the roof, in the seats, in the centre console, in the
>> glove compartment, even ones for the drinks holder to stop your coke
>> getting splat! :-)
>
>They're only good for one impact. If you roll a car (or, more likely an
>SUV) without a seat belt, you'll do quite a bit of bouncing around
>inside the car. Or through the windshield.
>
>With a seat belt, I've seen people walk away from a rolled Jeep. In
>fact, a co-worker drove hers away when her Jeep came to rest back on its
>wheels. Needless to say, roll bars help as
>well.
>
[snip]
Weirdest one I ever saw was a drunken bastard in an old Buick
hot-rodding down Scottsdale Road (in that section between Cave Creek
and Bell with all the dips).
Dropped a front U-joint and the drive shaft dug into the pavement
right in the bottom of a dip.
Car did a pole vault and slid backwards on its roof for nearly a
hundred yards.
The deceleration G's were such that the drunkard was pinned in his
seat, and walked away with just a few scratches from falling to the
roof when the car slowed down ;-)
Speaking of Jeeps, a co-worker of mine drove her Jeep thru a running
wash... fortunately she was a good swimmer. The Jeep went in at 7th
Avenue and stopped a few blocks from the 19th AVenue crossing.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
[snip]
>One real problem, as it's been explained to me by people who work on
>these things, is that the collision sensors in the North American
>market are set to excessive sensitivity, because of laxly enforced
>and/or nonexistent seatbelt laws. (Worse still, this problem often
>propagates to other markets). As usual, an attempt to save people from
>their own suicidal stupidity results in injury to others.
Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
Arizona ;-)
Ken Taylor
news:608b6569.04021...@posting.google.com...
I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering wheel,
pointed at the driver.
Ken
electricked
> news:LtidnbNCk5T...@comcast.com...
>
> > if you're
> > buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
> > collision). Sometimes more, is less.
> >
> > --Viktor
>
> Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
> likely to cause injury.
I agree. That's why you should always buckle up.
> So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars?
Yes, that's my opinion. I disconnected mine as soon as I got the car.
Airbags are too much hassle. First you pay more to have them included in the
package, second they injure you, and third you have to pay even more for
getting injured. No thanks!
>Do you believe that we shouldn't immunize children?
How did children get into the picture? I never said anything about
immunizing your children, or your children at all. All I talked about was
seat belts and airbags. And since you mentioned children, I'd recommend you
don't put your children close to an airbag. Just a suggestion, take it as
you wish.
>That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries than they prevent?
Again, you're comparing apple and oranges here. Precisely, you're comparing
motorcycle helmets and airbags which have nothing to do with each other. I'm
all for safety, but airbags somehow don't make me feel more safe. I suggest
you wear a motorcycle helmet, if you're still having trouble reading between
the lines.
>That GFCI receptacles cause cancer?
Boy o' Boy! You seem confused...
>There is such a thing as research you know.
Research is fine by me, but when experience has showed me the opposite of
theory I'd rather follow realistic safety precautions. Just because honda
said airbags are cool and protective doesn't mean they are. And just because
they are looking for ways to make hondas safer, doesn't mean they have found
an optimal way. Seat belts do an excellent job at keeping you alive.
> Leonard Caillouet
Nice to meet you Leonard.
--Viktor
electricked
"Ken Taylor" <ken...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:c0ua6m$1bs1cv$1...@ID-76636.news.uni-berlin.de...
And how will that work? Are they going to include a supplementary button
which reads "I did something stupid. Slap me please!" BANG!
--Viktor
Ken Taylor
modification. If everyone had a spike in the steering wheel like that,
they'd drive a damn sight more carefully!
Ken
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"
"Andrey" <andr...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:88ab685.04021...@posting.google.com...
> I am looking for schematic or service manual with schematic for airbag
> control module for 2000 and up Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. Or how
> can I fix the control module after airbags were deployed.
> Thank you.
It seems to me to be really stoopid to fiddle with something that your
life is so dependent on. Like, didja ever think what the insurance
company would say if they found out that you 'fixed' your airbag?
Probably say, so long chump, you'll have to sue to collect!
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"
I was sued for $6k, and I along with the other parties, plumber,
insurance company, etc, settled with the bastard for $3k. He pulled a
setup, pretended to slip and fall, then they called the paramedics,
claimed he hurt his neck. I was disappointed that the other parties
were gonna settle, and not push for a court date. I call it legal
theft. But that doesn't mean I don't have faith in the legal system.
It still works, even tho some people manage to take advantage of it.
James Sweet
"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOS...@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:103616r...@corp.supernews.com...
Well first of all you spelled stupid wrong, second of all, your life is not
always "so dependent" on an airbag, a properly designed car that has a rigid
passenger cage, crumple zones, collapsible steering column and other
features that have been around for a few decades now will do just fine to
protect the occupants without an explosive charged bag a foot from the
driver's face.
What I don't understand is that I can pick up for example a '90 240 either
with or without the airbag (it was optional at the time) and the model
without the bag is perfectly legal to own, drive and sell, and I may add has
a safety record superior to a great many new cars, yet if I get a model with
an airbag and remove it, that's illegal. Well screw it, I'd disconnect it
anyway and just never sell the car, or better yet, I'll just stick with ones
that don't have it in the first place.
Greysky
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:neEYb.212362$U%5.1228300@attbi_s03...
>
face.
>
> What I don't understand is that I can pick up for example a '90 240 either
> with or without the airbag (it was optional at the time) and the model
> without the bag is perfectly legal to own, drive and sell, and I may add
has
> a safety record superior to a great many new cars, yet if I get a model
with
> an airbag and remove it, that's illegal. Well screw it, I'd disconnect it
> anyway and just never sell the car, or better yet, I'll just stick with
ones
> that don't have it in the first place.
>
>
recycler will pay you for aluminum cans, but only if they have the state
seal on them. V* Tomato juics has no seal, and the recycler will go through
the cans and throw out the V* cans. Now is the Al in those cans somehow less
important thant he Al in any other can? By throwing those cans out, the
state is littering and doing everything they say we *citizens* can't or
shouldn't do. It's all Bulls***. I deactivated my airbags after a friend of
the family got his neck broken by one when it went off...
Rene Tschaggelar
>
> The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
> stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
> with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
> airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
> I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
> excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
> properly buckled occupants.
Indeeed, the north american airbags are bigger than those elsewhere.
This due to the fact that in other countries you are supposed to be
belted on additionally. Then the airbag can be designed smaller.
But somehow legislation wasn't successful is reducing the american
right to drive unbelted.
Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
Dave VanHorn
> Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
> Arizona ;-)
And yet school buses still have none..
They also stop before railroad crossings, which would seem to increase the
risk of stalling out across the tracks, and have now strobe lights on top,
that apparently are supposed to serve some purpose.
YOU can't put your kid in the middle of a nicely padded SUV for a 5 minute
trip unbelted (nor should you), but the state can pick up your kid, and
twice a day, cram them into a big can of unbelted kids, and drive around
town for half an hour each way..
RonKZ650
>
>Yes, that's my opinion. I disconnected mine as soon as I got the car.
Good for you. I'd be much more worried about the stupid bag than comforted by
it's presence.
Same with ABS brakes. After many close calls due to the brakes suddenly
releasing "thanks" to the ABS "helping" me drive, I disconnected them on my
1989 Ford truck. What a wonderful improvement. Unfortunately the newer vehicals
aren't as simple to disconnect, so my advice is to leave about a block
following distance between yourself and any other vehical to allow the ABS to
"help" you stop.
ABS is for iddiots that can't drive and airbags go in the same catagory.
Ron
James Sweet
"Dave VanHorn" <dvan...@cedar.net> wrote in message
news:aOednTF7rtu...@comcast.com...
IIRC the reasoning behind no belts in busses was to aid in escaping should
something happen. All said and done schoolbusses have an excellent safety
record, it's more common to hear of a commercial airliner crash than a fatal
schoolbus accident.
I've noticed those strobe lights lately, what a silly idea, it's very
distracting to be driving on the freeway at night and have a strobe flashing
repeatedly in my peripheral vision, I may be somehow more likely to see the
bus (and how could I miss one anyway?) but at the expense of being more
likely to not see other obstacles.
The silly stopping at railroad crossings came into effect after a bus driver
stopped with the tail end of the bus hanging out over the track and got hit
by a train, how stopping to look both ways first avoids that I'm not sure,
if it were up to me I'd say stop if traffic is backed up to within a certain
distance of the tracks, otherwise just go, it's stupid.
Isaac Wingfield
"Leonard Caillouet" <n...@no.com> wrote:
> "electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message
> news:LtidnbNCk5T...@comcast.com...
>
> > if you're
> > buckled up, the airbag is worthles (might even kill you in a serious
> > collision). Sometimes more, is less.
> >
> > --Viktor
>
> Actually, if you are NOT buckled up the air bag is less effective and more
> likely to cause injury.
>
> So are you saying we shouldn't have airbags in cars? Do you believe that we
> shouldn't immunize children? That motorcycle helmets cause more injuries
> than they prevent? That GFCI receptacles cause cancer? There is such a
> thing as research you know.
Interesting airbag questions:
Discounting all the broken wrists and hearing damage, forgetting all the
internal damage to cars from "acidental" deployments, and not counting
the people that are directly killed by airbags when they deploy, what is
the approximate cost of an airbag installation,*per life saved*?
What happens when "certain people" figure out that there's a nice little
explosive squib or two, *free for the taking*, inside every contemporary
auto?
The compound the squib is made of is not only explosive, but hypertoxic,
and will cause problems if it just shows up in landfills; how many
states have procedures in place to deal with that when the cars are
scrapped out? What is the cost of those procedures? Who pays for them?
Isaac
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
[snip]
>
> Speaking of Jeeps, a co-worker of mine drove her Jeep thru a running
> wash... fortunately she was a good swimmer. The Jeep went in at 7th
> Avenue and stopped a few blocks from the 19th AVenue crossing.
I lost the URL, but there was a guy who drove his Jeep (without the top)
through a carwash. He put on a wetsuit and mask. No problems.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
What color is a chameleon looking in a mirror?
James Sweet
"Isaac Wingfield" <i...@witzend.com> wrote in message
news:isw-03E2FF.2...@netnews.comcast.net...
After working on my girlfriend's Saab for several hours yesterday I've
decided that the worst "safety" invention is not an airbag, it's those @&^@!
"passive" seatbelts with the motorized shoulder strap, absolutely useless,
and a huge pain in the ass to keep working.
Jeff
"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <lang...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:40327F70...@ieee.org...
Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
down the hill was with the emergency brake.
>
> -Lasse
>
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>
>"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <lang...@ieee.org> wrote in message
>news:40327F70...@ieee.org...
[snip]
>> usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
>> the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.
>
>Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
>down the hill was with the emergency brake.
>
>
>
>>
>> -Lasse
>>
>
Lasse, What brand of car?
normanstrong
Norm Strong
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%CQYb.348086$xy6.1733339@attbi_s02...
Michael
A girl friend of mine lost control, and the car landed upside down,
funny thing was she pulled the handbrake on before climbing out. 8-)
James Sweet
"normanstrong" <norman...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:DogZb.362248$na.551690@attbi_s04...
> What gas is an airbag filled with?
>
> Norm Strong
It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
online somwhere.
Sir Charles W. Shults III
into sodium metal and nitrogen gas.
Cheers!
Chip Shults
Dave Platt
James Sweet <james...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
>results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
>online somwhere.
http://www.lemurzone.com/airbag/inflate.htm
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sodiumazide/basics/facts.asp
The majority of the pyrotechnic charge is (it says here) sodium azide.
When this material is ignited, it burns very rapidly, producing
nitrogen gas with a number of byproducts (including a small amount of
sodium hydroxide a.k.a. lye).
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Daniel Rudy
listened as Dave Platt contributed the following to humanity:
> In article <5YgZb.84156$uV3.546535@attbi_s51>,
> James Sweet <james...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It uses a pyrotechnic charge to fill, so the gas is whatever compound
>>results from the chemical reaction. I'm sure the information is available
>>online somwhere.
>
>
> http://www.lemurzone.com/airbag/inflate.htm
>
> http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sodiumazide/basics/facts.asp
>
> The majority of the pyrotechnic charge is (it says here) sodium azide.
> When this material is ignited, it burns very rapidly, producing
> nitrogen gas with a number of byproducts (including a small amount of
> sodium hydroxide a.k.a. lye).
>
There's a company out in my parts that make those charges. They're
called Explosive Technology and they are localed FAR AWAY from
civilization in the back hills of Suisun City, CA. They also make that
detionation wire that burns at 12,000 Feet Per Second that will cut
anything that's in contact with it. Used for pyrotechnics in movies and
such, or when you need to make an emergancy escape route really quick. :)
As for the charges, the explosive force of an airbag deployment is
equivilent to a 12 guage shotgun blast.
--
Daniel Rudy
Remove nospam, invalid, and 0123456789 to reply.
Daniel Rudy
listened as Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" contributed the
following to humanity:
> "Tymanthius" <tyman...@usa.net> wrote in message
I live in California. I was told, by a law enforcement officer, that if
someone breaks into your house, make damn sure that you shoot them,
dead. If they manage to crwal out of your house, drag them back in and
hope to God that no one saw you.
He suggested using a .357 or .44 Magnum with hollowpoints...
Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <lang...@ieee.org> wrote in message
>>news:40327F70...@ieee.org...
>
> [snip]
>
>>>usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
>>>the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.
>>
>>Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
>>down the hill was with the emergency brake.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>-Lasse
>>>
>>
>
> Lasse, What brand of car?
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Don't know Jim, It was Jeff who said it ;)
-Lasse
Jeff
"Jim Thompson" <thegr...@example.com> wrote in message
news:ulia30hitm5kk1oqp...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:43:29 GMT, "Jeff" <levy...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lasse Langwadt Christensen" <lang...@ieee.org> wrote in message
> >news:40327F70...@ieee.org...
> [snip]
> >> usually modern ABS is quite good, except on gravel where blocking
> >> the wheels and digging is really the most efficient way to stop.
> >
> >Or snow - the only way to stop one car from the abs letting the car roll
> >down the hill was with the emergency brake.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> -Lasse
> >>
> >
>
> Lasse, What brand of car?
>
Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
they were never tested in winter conditions. I would hate to have ABS on a
road with partial icy patches, such as one side on snow or bare road, and
the other on a strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow, or from
runoff freezing.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
All I keep hearing is *GM*. Any other brands with ABS problems?
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>In article <TEMZb.101944$IF6.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
>Jeff <levy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
>>system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
>>approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
>>new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
>>control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
>>complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
>>they were never tested in winter conditions.
>
>Well, of course they were tested on snow and ice, but they are not magic.
What's this "snow and ice" stuff ?:-)
>
>Here's a good explanation of the tradeoffs:
>
>http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs1_e.htm
I'm puzzled by the statement, "ABS was introduced in the mid -1980s".
I drove a T-bird test vehicle at the Dearborn facility of Ford in the
late '60's to evaluate some of my chip designs.
>
>And here are some experimental results:
>
>http://www.veta.se/abs66ice.htm
>
>Both found in 30 seconds with Google...
The only people who harp about the inadequacies of ABS are the same
ones who claim you're safer not wearing a seat belt.
Ken
wrote:
> I would hate to have ABS on a road with partial icy patches,
> such as one side on snow or bare road, and the other on a
> strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow,
> or from runoff freezing.
ABS systems are perfect here in icy Sweden.
And even our big 18 meters, 25 metric tons heavy
(full load 110 people) articulated buses have ABS
and can handle ice and severe situations and make it
possible to steer where I want (I'm a busdriver).
Without ABS it's a little tricky to brake this
long buses and still get i strait.
http://www9.volvo.com/bus/product_offers/prodpres/prod6.asp
ABS are made for roads with partial icy patches,
that's the reason they made ABS.
If it don't works well it is faulty or wrong made.
--
+ Ken +
Daniel Narvaes
>
>> Mandatory-use-of-seat-belt laws are in the works in most states, even
>> Arizona ;-)
>
> And yet school buses still have none..
> They also stop before railroad crossings, which would seem to increase
> the risk of stalling out across the tracks, and have now strobe lights
> on top, that apparently are supposed to serve some purpose.
Those strobe lights are just dangerous at night. They have them in
Arkansas too. Luckily they don't have them here in Oklahoma.
Jeff
"Ken" <___ke...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:d6ef30tsg3olhj5n4...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:34:43 GMT, "Jeff" <levy...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I would hate to have ABS on a road with partial icy patches,
> > such as one side on snow or bare road, and the other on a
> > strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow,
> > or from runoff freezing.
>
> ABS systems are perfect here in icy Sweden.
> And even our big 18 meters, 25 metric tons heavy
> (full load 110 people) articulated buses have ABS
> and can handle ice and severe situations and make it
> possible to steer where I want (I'm a busdriver).
> Without ABS it's a little tricky to brake this
> long buses and still get i strait.
I didn't say they don't go straight, that they usually do perfectly fine,
they just don't stop under some circumstances, or take much longer to stop.
ABS most likely reduces serous crashes from people loosing control (on ice,
snow, etc), and in turn, creates some minor fender benders.
Jeff
I would agree, except that other brands seem to have similar issues.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>
>"Jim Thompson" <thegr...@example.com> wrote in message
>news:996f3054akhkebcv8...@4ax.com...
[snip]
>> All I keep hearing is *GM*. Any other brands with ABS problems?
>
>I would agree, except that other brands seem to have similar issues.
>
Specifically? ISTR, from my experience with ABS designs, that there
is a low speed drop-out where ABS action ceases... thus none of the
slow-speed ice/gravel problems as reported here.
James Sweet
>
> I'm puzzled by the statement, "ABS was introduced in the mid -1980s".
> I drove a T-bird test vehicle at the Dearborn facility of Ford in the
> late '60's to evaluate some of my chip designs.
>
They didn't become common until the mid 80's though, while I'm sure they
exist, I've never seen a pre-'80 car with ABS.
> The only people who harp about the inadequacies of ABS are the same
> ones who claim you're safer not wearing a seat belt.
>
And those who own/have driven a car with a lousy ABS system, they're not all
created equally.
Lewin A.R.W. Edwards
> ones who claim you're safer not wearing a seat belt.
Hmmm. My only accident to date was in a 1994-vintage vehicle with ABS;
I was doing 10mph down an off-ramp when I should have been doing 5,
and I couldn't stop in time to miss the snowplough in front of me -
thereby losing a headlamp on my wife's Taurus and damaging one fender,
the hood and the header panel (all of which I replaced by myself in
our parking spot at our apartment - without doubt the most
backbreaking task I've ever performed).
I don't know that I trust it to do anything useful. On the other hand,
I don't know that it actively causes harm. The bottom line is that if
I was offered a choice of cars and the only difference was ABS and
price, I'd go for the cheaper option without ABS.
Keith R. Williams
thegr...@example.com says...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:02:17 GMT, "Jeff" <levy...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jim Thompson" <thegr...@example.com> wrote in message
> >news:996f3054akhkebcv8...@4ax.com...
> [snip]
> >> All I keep hearing is *GM*. Any other brands with ABS problems?
> >
> >I would agree, except that other brands seem to have similar issues.
> >
>
> Specifically? ISTR, from my experience with ABS designs, that there
> is a low speed drop-out where ABS action ceases... thus none of the
> slow-speed ice/gravel problems as reported here.
I've had ABS from all US manufacturers, including the crap from
GM. I never had this problem, though the GM stuff was worse than
the rest. My Ford Ranger gets squirrely when the ABS kicks in
in 2WD. It's perfect in 4WD, where I normally expect problems.
Emergency brakes are another issue. The don't work all that well
when parked on ice. My wife parked the truck in the driveway a
year or so ago and it slid almost into the road after she came
inside. The back wheels (no weight there) were on ice and the
fronts didn't care much where they went. In bad weather I tend
to leave it in 4WD when it's parked.
--
Keith
Keith R. Williams
thegr...@example.com says...
> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:39:54 -0000, da...@slack.com (David DiGiacomo)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <TEMZb.101944$IF6.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
> >Jeff <levy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
> >>system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
> >>approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
> >>new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
> >>control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
> >>complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
> >>they were never tested in winter conditions.
> >
> >Well, of course they were tested on snow and ice, but they are not magic.
>
> What's this "snow and ice" stuff ?:-)
Think Flagstaff, Winslow...
--
Keith
Keith R. Williams
levy...@hotmail.com says...
>
> "Ken" <___ke...@telia.com> wrote in message
> news:d6ef30tsg3olhj5n4...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:34:43 GMT, "Jeff" <levy...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I would hate to have ABS on a road with partial icy patches,
> > > such as one side on snow or bare road, and the other on a
> > > strip of ice from previous cars compacting the snow,
> > > or from runoff freezing.
> >
> > ABS systems are perfect here in icy Sweden.
> > And even our big 18 meters, 25 metric tons heavy
> > (full load 110 people) articulated buses have ABS
> > and can handle ice and severe situations and make it
> > possible to steer where I want (I'm a busdriver).
> > Without ABS it's a little tricky to brake this
> > long buses and still get i strait.
>
> I didn't say they don't go straight, that they usually do perfectly fine,
> they just don't stop under some circumstances, or take much longer to stop.
> ABS most likely reduces serous crashes from people loosing control (on ice,
> snow, etc), and in turn, creates some minor fender benders.
Re: going straight. My wife asked me when she got her first ABS
equipped car if that meant she wouldn't slide anymore. "Sure",
says I, "You'll go *straight* into the tree." ...and as it turns
out, that's about the only time that POS would go straight.
--
Keith
Ralph Wade Phillips
"Jim Thompson" <thegr...@example.com> wrote in message
news:icmf30d15dfdj4kpu...@4ax.com...
> Specifically? ISTR, from my experience with ABS designs, that there
> is a low speed drop-out where ABS action ceases... thus none of the
> slow-speed ice/gravel problems as reported here.
One guy in another newsgroup that drives a Land Rover with ABS was
bitching about it also. Couldn't get his studded tires to bite into the
ice, since the ABS kept the tires from locking long enough to BITE ...
Which, when you consider it - a Land Rover with ABS sounds like ...
someone, someWHERE, has gone totally crazy!
RwP
RonKZ650
On the Ford Diesel owners website there's numerous mentions of accidents caused
by the ABS, so no it's not just GM. I can attest to the fact that my 1989 Ford
and 1997 Ford 1 ton trucks are just an accident waiting to happen *thanks* to
the ABS. I've driven over a million miles without being in an accident and
don't need or want this POS crap. It's like having your mother in law in the
passenger seat working the brakes for you. Bunch of shit. Anybody that needs
it, is an uncapable driver, so *yes* it's neccessary for some drivers that
don't have drivers skills.
Ron
William R. Walsh
> All I keep hearing is *GM*. Any other brands with ABS problems?
I'd have to say that I'm more than pleased with the ABS function on my '03
S-10. It too runs a motor, rattles around and pulses the pedal like most
others have described but it will stop the vehicle very effectively...a LOT
more effectively than some other ABS or regular brake systems I've driven
with.
And, yes, I like to think I'm a good driver! :-)
William
Charles Edmondson
One night, got a little way down the mountain, and needed to chain up.
Unfortunately, I was on a small slope coated with glare ice. If I held
the brake on, all four wheels would keep me from rolling. If I put the
emergency brake on, just the rear wheels stopped would have me sliding
down hill! Had to step out quick, and put some junk from my back seat
in front of my back tires so I could get out of the car long enough to
put the chains on!
Charlie
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems
Keith R. Williams
edmond...@ns.ieee.org.invalid says...
...reminds me of when I lived in the hell-hole NY. We didn't get
snow down there, rather it slushed. I had studded tires and the
back end constantly wanted to come around to the front. The
front brakes held, the rears didn't. To this day I'll never buy
studded tires. What a PITA!
OTOH, here in Vermont they know how to take care of snow. We had
over 5' of snow in a week (three major snowfalls) and perhaps I
lost an hour's work (took the wife to work one morning).
--
Keith
James Sweet
>
> ...reminds me of when I lived in the hell-hole NY. We didn't get
> snow down there, rather it slushed. I had studded tires and the
> back end constantly wanted to come around to the front. The
> front brakes held, the rears didn't. To this day I'll never buy
> studded tires. What a PITA!
>
> OTOH, here in Vermont they know how to take care of snow. We had
> over 5' of snow in a week (three major snowfalls) and perhaps I
> lost an hour's work (took the wife to work one morning).
>
> --
I've had pretty good luck with studded tires, your problem sounds more like
an issue with the car, probably had poor weight ballance with a lot of
weight up in the front, the front tires got good traction so the back had a
tendency to come around. Several sandbags in the trunk work well, if your
trunk is clean like mine put the bags in a large rubbermaide bin, then if
you get stuck you have sand to dump on the ice patch too.
Kevin Carney
fall, on go the studded snows and 6 bags of water softener salt in the bed.
Works for me !
--
change .combo to .com for correct email
***************************************************
"We ought always to know precisely why a given job
is done in a particular way, and why it is done at
all, and why it can't be done more efficiently,
if it must be done at all."-- T.J.Watson
***************************************************
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SZB_b.386785$xy6.2192393@attbi_s02...
Bob Kos
>
> The deploying when not supposed to concerns me far more, I've heard a few
> stories of water getting into airbag controllers and the driver ending up
> with a broken nose when they turn the key. I've never owned a car with an
> airbag but if I did I can be fairly certain I would disconnect it, I know
> I'll get flamed for saying that but the airbags in north america are
> excessively powerful and IMO not nessesary in a well designed car with
> properly buckled occupants.
>
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Airbags don't just deploy
for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an intelligent processor
involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY conditional. They won't
even deploy in certain types of accidents. I'd say the chances of this
actually happening are roughly the same as having your computer monitor
screen explode in your face when you push the power button on. Maybe less
of a chance than that.
Bob Kos
"RonKZ650" <ronk...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040218150615...@mb-m05.aol.com...
>
> Good for you. I'd be much more worried about the stupid bag than comforted
by
> it's presence.
> Same with ABS brakes. After many close calls due to the brakes suddenly
> releasing "thanks" to the ABS "helping" me drive, I disconnected them on
my
> 1989 Ford truck. What a wonderful improvement. Unfortunately the newer
vehicals
> aren't as simple to disconnect, so my advice is to leave about a block
> following distance between yourself and any other vehical to allow the ABS
to
> "help" you stop.
> ABS is for iddiots that can't drive and airbags go in the same catagory.
> Ron
Ummmm... This is a repair group, right? Did it ever occur to you that
maybe your ABS system was malfunctioning and needed REPAIRED? If it was
releasing, it was preventing wheel lock. If it was detecting lockup
erroneously, then it needed fixed. And NOT by disconnecting it.
Altering a brake system by bypassing an integrated component??? And you're
calling people idiots????
OK......
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
They do from time to time. I believe Volvo had a problem a few years
back where the static charge created by rubbing the dashboard (while
cleaning it) set a few off.
Airbags are equipped with shorting plugs so that when unplugged (for
maintenance), the squib inputs are shorted, preventing detonations due
to static.
There are problems with fire or rescue personnel having them go off
while they are leaning into wrecked cars, or side airbags being set off
when they cut the roof off a car to
extract injured occupants.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
note to spammers: a Washington State resident
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to try cross-country skiing,
start with a small country.
John Woodgate
wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>) about
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:
>That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
instruction book of my Volvo.
> Airbags don't just
>deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
>intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
>conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.
"If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Bob Kos
"John Woodgate" <j...@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
> "If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
> may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
> The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."
>
I wonder who though up THAT design?? Single sensor deployment??? Am I
reading that right??? And a sensor vulnerable to environmental
contamination / false trigger. Fabulous. I'm again reminded why I don't
like Volvos.
Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy for
no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Flotation device?
I always called my buddy's Volvo a Fluffo ;-)
John Woodgate
'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:
>Of course, I still maintain my reply to the OP. Air bags do not deploy
>for no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the
>air bag. Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.
Indeed, I haven't submerged the Volvo, yet. But I did flood a company
Cortina by driving through flood water to my boss's house. The water was
just an inch or two too deep, but I kept the engine running OK.
Rene Tschaggelar
Several other manufacturer reported unintended deployment
of the airbag. When it happens on the freeway at 120km/h with
10m distance to the next you're getting a problem.
We're having reports over here on how to behave in the car.
Eg for the co-driver, putting the feet up to the dashboard is
a habit to better forget. Having a baby in the arms is considered
irresponsible.
Airbags do deploy by themselves.
There might be a bug in the controlling electronics too.
A colleague of mine had an upperclass car with distance warner.
Intended to act on the break while parking in when the distance
to the other car in front got sufficiently small. This electonics
happend to act on the freeway at 120km/h. More than once.
Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
RonKZ650
>no good reason. Submerging your Volvo will apparently deploy the air bag.
>Not exactly a common, everyday occurence.
About 10 yrs ago, a friend of mine who drove a semi car hauler, bringing new
cars out of Detroit swore that "quite often" the bags would deploy before they
unloaded the cars at the dealer. This is a 60 yr old man that had no reason to
make up stories out of the clear blue sky? Well maybe, but I'm still mighty
happy driving my '62 Plymouth around.
Ron
James Sweet
"Bob Kos" <s...@text.for.eddress> wrote in message
news:bzT_b.7033$yZ1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Hardly, I've spoken with two people who have had this happen, of course both
were 10+ year old cars (IE the ones I'm interested in owning) that had the
airbag control box located under the driver's seat. Sensor in that case is a
simple accellerometer.
James Sweet
"John Woodgate" <j...@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
> I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <s...@text.for.eddress>
> wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>) about
> 'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:
>
> >That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
>
> I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
> instruction book of my Volvo.
>
> > Airbags don't just
> >deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
> >intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
> >conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.
>
> "If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
> may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
> The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."
>
>
Yes, this is what I was referring to, and Volvo is certainly not the only
car manufacture to use that setup, it's actually quite common.
Thankfully though, the reinforced passenger cage, large crumple zone,
collapsible steering column and driveshaft, breakaway engine mounts,
spacious interior and good seatbelts make them damn safe even before the
airbags came into play, the 240 still holds as one of the safer cars on the
road, despite being designed nearly 3 decades ago and despite only the last
couple years offering airbags. Ask any fireman, EMT, or insurance broker,
most any of them will confirm this. If you design a car to absorb the force
of the impact while not deforming the passenger compartment, and *if* the
occupant(s) are properly belted into place, then the airbag will do no good.
Of course I'm somewhat biased, I know a great many cars out there are built
like tin cans, and in their case an airbag could concievably protect an
occupant. I personally choose not to drive a flimsy car though.
rgb
Try that for fun next time you have the chance.
Find a SAFE place with an ice lane and a clean lane (some empty parking
lots are a good place for that).
Try with both ABS an not ABS brake.
Drive with one side of your car on the ice lane and try an emergency stop.
:o)
PS. some cheap ABS should not even exit (like one in 1990 Cavalier (low
entry)), they were a pain ...
PS.. Summer ABS no really needed !
David DiGiacomo wrote:
> In article <TEMZb.101944$IF6.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
> Jeff <levy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Many cars with ABS will do it - the pedal just pulsates, while the braking
>>system makes a weird sound, and the car keeps rolling down the hill at an
>>approximate constant slow speed. The car I was driving was an almost brand
>>new Pontiac GTX Sunfire. I much prefer the older, non ABS brakes - I can
>>control a car much better with standard brakes. Many people around here
>>complain about ABS brakes in the winter, and want them disabled. It's like
>>they were never tested in winter conditions.
>
>
> Well, of course they were tested on snow and ice, but they are not magic.
>
> Here's a good explanation of the tradeoffs:
>
> http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs1_e.htm
>
> And here are some experimental results:
>
> http://www.veta.se/abs66ice.htm
>
> Both found in 30 seconds with Google...
Bob Kos
disabled? Or did they deploy when the ever-caring porters were
moto-crossing brand new cars off the hauler?
"RonKZ650" <ronk...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040225215629...@mb-m04.aol.com...
Bob Kos
>
> "John Woodgate" <j...@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
> news:g$0t5+B65...@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
> > I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Kos <s...@text.for.eddress>
> > wrote (in <bzT_b.7033$yZ1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>) about
> > 'airbags', on Wed, 25 Feb 2004:
> >
> > >That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
> >
> > I wasn't very pleased about it, either, when I read the warning in the
> > instruction book of my Volvo.
> >
> > > Airbags don't just
> > >deploy for no good reason. There are multiple sensors and an
> > >intelligent processor involved with SIR deployment. Deployment is VERY
> > >conditional. They won't even deploy in certain types of accidents.
> >
> > "If the front passenger compartment becomes flooded, the side airbags
> > may deploy without warning, because the sensor is under the front seats.
> > The vehicle must be towed to an authorised Volvo Service Centre."
> >
> >
>
> Yes, this is what I was referring to, and Volvo is certainly not the only
> car manufacture to use that setup, it's actually quite common.
It IS? Name another model that uses a single sensor deployment. I don't
believe that.
>
> Thankfully though, the reinforced passenger cage, large crumple zone,
> collapsible steering column and driveshaft, breakaway engine mounts,
> spacious interior and good seatbelts make them damn safe even before the
> airbags came into play, the 240 still holds as one of the safer cars on
the
> road, despite being designed nearly 3 decades ago and despite only the
last
> couple years offering airbags. Ask any fireman, EMT, or insurance broker,
> most any of them will confirm this. If you design a car to absorb the
force
> of the impact while not deforming the passenger compartment, and *if* the
> occupant(s) are properly belted into place, then the airbag will do no
good.
> Of course I'm somewhat biased, I know a great many cars out there are
built
> like tin cans, and in their case an airbag could concievably protect an
> occupant. I personally choose not to drive a flimsy car though.
>
>
I agree. Drive a soup can and you'll die in it.
However - if the market demands horsepower, handling, and affordability, the
manufacturers will deliver. Perhaps at the expense of structural rigidity
and crash worthiness. You get what you pay for.
Bob Kos
"electricked" <no_emails_please> wrote in message news:cPGdnTJ1Y5DyI6_dRVn-
> > I saw a documentary once where the psychologist being interviewed opined
> > that the only way to reduce the road toll dramatically was to remove all
> > safety features and put a metal spike in the middle of the steering
wheel,
> > pointed at the driver.
> >
> > Ken
>
> And how will that work? Are they going to include a supplementary button
> which reads "I did something stupid. Slap me please!" BANG!
>
> --Viktor
>
>
It's similar to adding a little chlorine to the gene pool. Natural
selection at its best....