Building a treehouse in the redwood grove of a neighbor (pics included)

[Danny D.]

Just thought I'd share with you guys some pics of the treehouse in the
redwoods my neighbor asked me to help him start this weekend:

Here's a shot of the ladders we strapped to the redwood trees:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3910/15279581646_2753fa993e_c.jpg

This shows one of the neighbors helping anchor the cargo netting:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15302627625_fc5bab3e26_c.jpg

It's a good thing she did, as she was the first to test it out:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3836/15302627555_4c33459c63_c.jpg

Here you can see the 1/2" steel cable for the suspension bridge:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3920/15299486271_3c953d40ff_c.jpg

We made a *lot* of mistakes already, but, we are working together, and,
in the end, we'll have a nice catenary suspension bridge and a treehouse
suspended in between the redwoods with nothing but air beneath it.

[Mike Marlow]

Danny D. wrote:
> Just thought I'd share with you guys some pics of the treehouse in the
> redwoods my neighbor asked me to help him start this weekend:
>
> Here's a shot of the ladders we strapped to the redwood trees:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3910/15279581646_2753fa993e_c.jpg

Dude - you are feakin' nuts!

>
> This shows one of the neighbors helping anchor the cargo netting:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15302627625_fc5bab3e26_c.jpg

Oh no - you are way past freakin' nuts!

>
> It's a good thing she did, as she was the first to test it out:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3836/15302627555_4c33459c63_c.jpg
>

Now it makes sense - the "she" word...

> Here you can see the 1/2" steel cable for the suspension bridge:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3920/15299486271_3c953d40ff_c.jpg

Take my advice - send her up to test the bridge...

>
> We made a *lot* of mistakes already, but, we are working together,
> and, in the end, we'll have a nice catenary suspension bridge and a
> treehouse suspended in between the redwoods with nothing but air
> beneath it.

I give up - you are simply crazy! But... to each his own...

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Tony Hwang]

Hi,
Very nice, just make sure don't forget safety belt, helmet and maybe
parachute, Eh?

[Arfa Daily]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lvl5c0$mq1$1...@dont-email.me...

> Just thought I'd share with you guys some pics of the treehouse in the
> redwoods my neighbor asked me to help him start this weekend:

Aren't tree houses usually for kids ... ?

Arfa

[Danny D.]

Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:45:55 -0600:

> just make sure don't forget safety belt, helmet and maybe parachute, Eh?

Yeah. This is hill country. We rope down thousands of feet on a "normal"
hike, so, yeah, we all have climbing equipment.

In fact, you can see the harnesses everyone has on in the photo below:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3836/15116825580_97f0484828_c.jpg

It's deceptive, but that is a very steep slope, so, what's 10 feet on one
side of the trees is about twice or thrice that on the other side.

[Danny D.]

Arfa Daily wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 02:21:40 +0100:

> Aren't tree houses usually for kids ... ?

Ours are really nice! They span 100 feet from tree to tree, and they are
equipped with 120VAC and WiFi, with deck chairs and a fridge for the
booze, and we often leave a spare laptop in the treehouse for visitors.

[Danny D.]

Arfa Daily wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 02:21:40 +0100:

> Aren't tree houses usually for kids ... ?

Kids build suspension bridges on parabolas.
Adults do it with the catenary!

[Michael Black]

No, George Dyson lived in a tree house in British Columbia forty years
ago, when he was building his giant kayaks.

Michael

[Leon]

Very cool so far, thanks for sharing, and please keep us updated.

Have you seen the tree house show on TV?

[Oren]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 00:16:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Here you can see the 1/2" steel cable for the suspension bridge:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3920/15299486271_3c953d40ff_c.jpg

What kind of dog is that Danny?! (bottom center foreground)

[Danny D.]

Leon wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:05:23 -0500:

> Very cool so far, thanks for sharing, and please keep us updated.
> Have you seen the tree house show on TV?

No, I haven't seen that show, but, I realized belatedly I had not snapped
photos of the construction of our last treehouse a thousand feet into the
woods, so, I'll snap a few when I get the chance and append them.

Living in hilly country, we get pretty good at doing things at height and
distance.

At that older treehouse for example, we recently added WiFi, which is no
small feat considering it's a thousand feet or more from the nearest
house, so the problem of electricity needed to be solved (they used solar
panels but I wasn't part of that setup).

Here, for example, are the wireless speeds I got earlier today, which
aren't bad, considering there are no wires (26ms, 9 Mbps, 12 Mbps).
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=w9uv80&s=8

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:18:46 -0700:

> What kind of dog is that Danny?! (bottom center foreground)

Not my dog, but she's a pointer of some sort because it kept pointing at
animals in the woods, and the guys were talking about how good it was at
what it does.

It's the neighbor's dog, so that's all I know, other than I bring steak
bones every time I see it because it loves it and I'd have to compost or
throw them away anyway.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/20/2014 8:45 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>>> Just thought I'd share with you guys some pics of the treehouse in the
>>> redwoods my neighbor asked me to help him start this weekend:
>>>
>>> Here's a shot of the ladders we strapped to the redwood trees:
>>> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3910/15279581646_2753fa993e_c.jpg
>>

>> I give up - you are simply crazy! But... to each his own...
>>
> Hi,
> Very nice, just make sure don't forget safety belt, helmet and maybe
> parachute, Eh?

And this is near where they scrape markers off
the roads, and take down trash cans? I can see
a county work crew project soon, taking all
these ladders away.

Yes, I'm being ancient, and cynical.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Oren]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 03:56:46 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> What kind of dog is that Danny?! (bottom center foreground)
>
>Not my dog, but she's a pointer of some sort because it kept pointing at
>animals in the woods, and the guys were talking about how good it was at
>what it does.

The color made me think Weimaraner... <https://tinyurl.com/lo7psc5>

Similar to a Vizla, except in color... <https://tinyurl.com/nz3hs6r>

[jloomis]

How are you attaching the structure to the trees.
I live in the Redwood Country and have been involved with Tree House
design. I do know there are fasteners used to attach structural elements.
I would like to see the actual tree house.
john

"Danny D." wrote in message news:lvl5c0$mq1$1...@dont-email.me...

[Bob F]

How do you attach to the tree without damaging it? How do you prevent choking or
girdling the trees?
.

[Scott Lurndal]

"jloomis" <jlo...@oceans.net> writes:
>How are you attaching the structure to the trees.
>I live in the Redwood Country and have been involved with Tree House
>design. I do know there are fasteners used to attach structural elements.
>I would like to see the actual tree house.

We built one 15 years ago, in a small redwood grove in San Mateo.

We built a triangular structure between three trees. We
used two 2x12's between each pair of trees, clamping them to
the trees with threaded rod. No fasteners were embedded
in the trees. As the trees grew, over time, we'd release
a bit of tension on the allthread as the trunks grew in
diameter.

Supported by those 2x12's (6 total) was a standard 2x6
joist floor and 7 foot studwalls with a standard
pre-hung entry door on one side. There was about
six to seven feet between the trees.

[Leon]

Yup, that is a Weimar. We owned a blue one many years ago.

[Danny D.]

Bob F wrote, on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 08:34:07 -0700:

> How do you attach to the tree without damaging it? How do you prevent
> choking or girdling the trees?

The neighbor is using expensive "tree bolts".
These are something like $25 each, or so I'm told.
They allow the redwood tree to grow.
Even the cable, as it wraps around the tree, is offset from the tree by a
set of two-by-fours.

I should have snapped pictures of all the equipment as it seems some of
you have good experience which we can use as nobody wants to hurt the
trees.

I will try to snap some photos next time I'm there to help out.

[Oren]

On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:49:10 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

My first bride had a red Vizla, I still think that dog had mental
problems. Or I just didn't understand her. I now have an African
(Congo) Basenji sight hound. Even he is a little nuts, but I love
him.

The most difficult to train <g>

<https://tinyurl.com/nfbsz8j>

[Danny D.]

Just to update this thread, we completed the 250 feet of steel cabling
today by lashing the two ends together using these cable clamps:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2942/15372056651_7a845164f7_c.jpg

To keep the cables from cutting into the trees, and to allow the trees to
grow outward, we put up a series of these wooden standoff blocks:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2945/15188529430_6294070f9b_b.jpg

You'll notice that we doubled the cables as they wrapped around the trees
so that the strength is always two time 14,000 pounds, at all times:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/15188634078_2b3de04150_c.jpg

Here, you can see the two cables, hanging as two catenaries, from which
we will hand the suspension bridge:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2943/15188529300_bbedf3ba0c_c.jpg

We're starting to get used to working in the heights, as you can see by
this photo of my neighbor coming down from disentangling the lines:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3901/15188714847_e77461b64d_c.jpg

As you can imagine, we wear harnesses and we have static lines hanging
from all the trees, as you'd be amazed how many times you need them:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2945/15375216105_9961137c64_b.jpg

In fact, my unenviable job today was to stand at the TOP of this ladder
and position the cables, which I did with two hands on the cables so I
had to be wearing a harness or I would have fallen off in no time:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3870/15188634228_37f45d19e2_b.jpg

I'll let you know when we drill the redwoods to put in the tree bolts,
which will anchor the house; but first, we're working on the suspension
bridge (you can see our cargo netting in some of the pictures above).

Tomorrow we're putting up WiFi on a neighbor's roof, so we wont' be
working on the treehouse until next week.

[Danny D.]

OFWW wrote, on Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:55:45 -0700:

> If you installed these without lock washers I would recommend you go
> back up and at least put nylock nuts as safety nuts. Heating and
> cooling will cause those nuts to walk off the u-bolts.

Thank you for that safety suggestion!
That is a good point. Safety is paramount.

This treehouse 50 feet in the air in the redwoods has to outlast us
and it has be safe at all times.

Since we didn't use lock washers on the steel clamps, I will advise
my neighbor and I will snap a picture of the results for you.

You will notice that we doubled up the two ends of the steel cable
as they wrapped around the tree, so that we'd always have two cables
supporting the bridge.

On the big tree, 125 feet away, we will add a wraparound additional
steel cable, so that the middle also has two cables.

Any other safety ideas are welcome, as we're just at the point now
where we can start hanging the suspension bridge from the two steel
catenaries.

For example, you will notice that we followed the rule as shown here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/dead%20end.jpg

Following that diagram, we put the "saddle" of the clamps on the
"live end" (the mnemonic we used was "don't saddle a dead horse").
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/use%20of%20wire%20rope%20clips.jpg

Any other tips are welcome, as we're just now at the stage where
we have the ability to build the 125 foot long bridge starting
about 15 feet up in a pine, and then going straight across a
steep slope through the set of two redwoods, and then on to the
really big redwood 125 feet down the slope.

The treehouse will be in the middle of the bridge.

[Danny D.]

OFWW wrote, on Sat, 27 Sep 2014 23:55:45 -0700:

> I hate ladders like these, seen the two by's pull off after a
> short while especially if your shouldering a load going up or
> down. The rungs should be in notches.

This is a good point.

We have so many ladders, most of which are roped end-to-end to the trees
for height, that we just made them as simply as we could.

You can see that we have cargo netting, to allow us to cross from tree to
tree once we climb up the ladders:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3865/15195194790_8fe8c93589_c.jpg

But, we also usually wear safety harnesses and ascenders whenever we work
more than 15 or 20 feet up (which is almost always since it's a steep
slope so what is 15 feet up at the uphill end of the cables is something
like 50 or 70 feet up at the downhill end.

[Oren]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:50:02 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Following that diagram, we put the "saddle" of the clamps on the
>"live end" (the mnemonic we used was "don't saddle a dead horse").
> http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/use%20of%20wire%20rope%20clips.jpg

Just curious. Is there a torque spec for those clamps? Or ...

[Dan Coby]

On 9/28/2014 9:50 AM, Danny D. wrote:
... snip

>
> On the big tree, 125 feet away, we will add a wraparound additional
> steel cable, so that the middle also has two cables.

... snip

>
> Any other tips are welcome, as we're just now at the stage where
> we have the ability to build the 125 foot long bridge starting
> about 15 feet up in a pine, and then going straight across a
> steep slope through the set of two redwoods, and then on to the
> really big redwood 125 feet down the slope.
>
> The treehouse will be in the middle of the bridge.
>

Are you saying that the tree house will be in the middle of a 125 foot
suspension bridge. How much will the tree house weigh when fully loaded
and do you have any idea of the forces that may be in the cables?


Dan

[Danny D.]

dpb wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:54:02 -0500:

> I still think the clips should be used as delivered by the manufacturer

They *are* designed for this purpose, are they not?

They didn't come with lock washers.

I'm sure we have nothing against putting them on; but, if they really
needed lock washers, wouldn't they have come with them?

[Danny D.]

Dan Coby wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:34:27 -0700:

> Are you saying that the tree house will be in the middle of a 125 foot
> suspension bridge. How much will the tree house weigh when fully loaded
> and do you have any idea of the forces that may be in the cables?

The tree house will be where our cargo net currently is.

That's roughly half way from the uphill pine to the downhill big redwood
(with two little redwoods, side by side, in between).

The steel cables can handle 14,000 pounds each.

That's 28,000 pounds (because we maintain a double cable throughout).

We don't know how much the bridge & treehouse will weigh, but if it's
close to or greater than 28,000 pounds, then we have a problem.

How much do you think a treehouse will weigh?

[Oren]

Mentioned twice here. Torque the nuts on the cable clamps to specs.

I would.

[Mike Marlow]

Yes.

--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:21:31 -0700:

> Mentioned twice here. Torque the nuts on the cable clamps to specs.

Yup. 45 foot pounds. Thanks.

I'm relaying all this information to the neighbor as I'm just a helping
hand. I jokingly refer to myself as the "union worker" because I make
jokes about OSHA getting on their case every time I have to climb one
of those ladders!

I do apologize that updates are slow, as I can't snap a picture unless
I'm there, and the treehouse is only worked on during the weekends, and
I'm not always there to help, but I will try to snap pictures as we
progress.

Dunno if I should append all to the same thread, as the way "I" read this
newsgroup is that I only look at the threads from the last day or three.
Dunno how others look at older threads, 'cuz this could take a few months
elapsed time.

[Dan Coby]

On 9/28/2014 2:18 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> Dan Coby wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:34:27 -0700:
>
>> Are you saying that the tree house will be in the middle of a 125 foot
>> suspension bridge. How much will the tree house weigh when fully loaded
>> and do you have any idea of the forces that may be in the cables?
>
> The tree house will be where our cargo net currently is.
>
> That's roughly half way from the uphill pine to the downhill big redwood
> (with two little redwoods, side by side, in between).
>
> The steel cables can handle 14,000 pounds each.
>
> That's 28,000 pounds (because we maintain a double cable throughout).
>

You also have to consider the geometry of what you are creating. If you
are tensioning the cables for very little sag then the forces in the
cable can be many time the weight of the tree house. Without knowing
exactly what you are creating then I cannot guess. That is why I asked
if you had any ideas of the forces in the cable.

> We don't know how much the bridge & treehouse will weigh, but if it's
> close to or greater than 28,000 pounds, then we have a problem.
>
> How much do you think a treehouse will weigh?

I do not know what you are planning upon building. That was why I asked
you. If you are talking about the tree houses that we built as kids with
a plywood floor and a few boards and a tar paper roof then only a
couple of hundred pounds. If you are talking about some of the multi
story creations that I have seen on TV then many tons.


Dan

[Danny D.]

Dan Coby wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:32:48 -0700:

> If you are tensioning the cables for very little sag
> then the forces in the cable can be many time the weight
> of the tree house.

We "tensioned" the cables, by hand.

What we literally did was put a broomstick through the 60 pound wooden
spool of 250 feet of 3/8" steel cable and we mounted that on two chairs
about 15 feet downhill of a big pine tree.

Then we went uphill to that pine tree at a point about 15 feet off the
ground and then back to the chairs with the spool of wire.

At that point, we tied a rope to the end of the wire, and we walked the
wire downhill a little less than about 100 feet to a big redwood.

At that redwood, we climbed up to the same height as the pine (which,
since it's downhill, is about 40 or so feet up in the air) and we pulled
the rope with the wire cable attached.

Then we pulled the rope which pulled the cable back up the hill back to
the point on the path 15 feet below the pine, where we pulled it tight by
hand, and then clamped the 8 clamps on.

Then, we simply slid the cable around the big redwood and slid it around
the pine, until the cable clamps were symmetric around the pine, as shown
in the last set of pictures.

I won't mention the fact that we accidentally crossed the cables because
we went around the big redwood the wrong way, as that's embarrassing to
mention. Nor will I mention how many times we got hung up in the branches
between trees, necessitating mid-air precarious surgery on the trees.

Given all that, I wouldn't call the tension all that tight. You can see
the sag in the photos. Maybe it sags, oh, I don't know, about 5 to 10
feet maybe?

> I do not know what you are planning upon building. That was why I asked
> you. If you are talking about the tree houses that we built as kids with
> a plywood floor and a few boards and a tar paper roof then only a couple
> of hundred pounds. If you are talking about some of the multi story
> creations that I have seen on TV then many tons.

I think we're talking just a plywood box, with a deck. I should mention
that there will be anchors on the two little redwoods, so, the treehouse
won't actually be floating on all sides. The bridge *will* be floating
though. It should be fun once it's done and wired for Internet. It has a
great view once you're up in the redwoods.

[John Robertson]

Have you allowed for a windstorm where the trees may be moving in
opposite directions to each other?

Temperature affects the length of the wire rope, have you allowed for
maximum and minimum temperatures?

You want some sort of shock absorption built in too. Old antennas used
porcelain blocks for joining cables, the porcelain would shatter under
unexpected loads giving the cables a chunk of extra slack to avoid their
collapse by stretching beyond limits.

May I suggest you find an engineer to look over your design? I'm not
one, but can think of a few ways for this to go wrong already including
the clamps failing etc.

Suspension bridges are close to what you are building - read up on the
design criteria for these. Seat of the pants design may give you another
Tacoma bridge...

John :-#)#

PS, it looks like a lot of fun though!

[Danny D.]

John Robertson wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:54:57 -0700:

> Have you allowed for a windstorm where the trees may be moving in
> opposite directions to each other?

> Have you allowed for maximum and minimum temperatures?

Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds! :)

> You want some sort of shock absorption built in too.

Hmmmmmm.... The cables don't "give" a little when you walk on the bridge
that would be hanging below it?

> May I suggest you find an engineer to look over your design?

The neighbors are all owners of companies and people with graduate
degrees, so, they *are* engineers (of all types). The one having the most
fun with the design is the retired carrier fighter pilot. :)

> Suspension bridges are close to what you are building

Yes. I'm told the catenary will turn into a parabola once we hang the
bridge off of it. Since the bridge starts uphill about 15 feet above the
trail, it will be fun to just step onto the bridge, at the level of the
trail, and then walk "downhill" level but going higher and higher above
the steeply sloping ground, to get to the two smaller redwoods in the
middle of the span.

At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and
WiFi and a great open view of the mountains.

Then, if we want, we can walk further to the *big* redwood, which will
have sleeping quarters (hammocks and cargo nets) for the nights we'll
spend there.

It should be fun, once done, and I'll try to keep you guys informed; but
I personally am not designing or building it; I'm just the free help (we
all have Spanish nicknames when we do free labor. I'm "Rodruigo", and my
wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example).

I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they
don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date).

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:31:43 -0700:

> Just curious. Is there a torque spec for those clamps? Or ...

I had forwarded this thread to the owner of the treehouse in the redwoods, who replied with the following ...
-----------

People worry too much.

I simply design for 10 times the expected load, and pay the premium.
Trying to finely engineer the solution where torque and special fasteners are important
is a way to save money, and I'd rather spend the money and not waste my time.
I've never seen a malleable cable clamp. Drop forged ones are cheap, and I use more than
normal anyway, not because I think they are needed, but because they help keep the cable
from slipping out of place on the wood block spacers.

The reason for keeping the U-bolt on the dead end of the cable is because the saddle has
a lot more surface area, and thus does not reduce the strength of the cable as much as the
U-bolt does. But they make dual-saddle cable clamps, for those who don't use the over-engineering
approach I do.

Each cable can support 7 tons, so the total weight of treehouse and occupants can be 14 tons.
(Although there will be other supports besides the cable -- one end will rest on the ground, and
another end will be anchored to the tree, and there may be other support cables used just to
make installation and leveling easier.)

If half of the weight is treehouse and the other half is people, we have 7 tons of treehouse
possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished),
and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people
in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder.

[Oren]

My point was, if the clamps call for a torque spec, and we now
understand they do - why not follow the details made by the
manufacturers? I'd just feel comfortable doing so. Your friend can do
as he pleases. I get the point of over building something. I've done
hear for a patio cover on my house.

Pick your poison :)

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm just the free help (we
>all have Spanish nicknames when we do free labor. I'm "Rodruigo", and my
>wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example).
>
>I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they
>don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date).

It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
--
"..,what is good is the front end if you don't have the back end"-- Kimberly Guilfoyle

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700:

> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!

I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental?
Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?

(I don't know these things.)

[Danny D.]

Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:20:20 -0700:

> Your friend can do as he pleases.
> I get the point of over building something.

The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not
me! :)

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:15:51 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700:
>
>> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
>
>I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental?

Crazy Uncle Joe Biden?

>Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
>The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?
>
>(I don't know these things.)

The Mexicans are offended. Ask one that knows some history or lack of.

[Oren]

But you are one of the conspirators in negligence, unwittingly.
Neither can sue the clamp maker. (G)

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-09-29, Danny D. <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700:
>
>> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
>
> I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental?

No, that's pretty much correct (if rather dated). "Oriental" literally
means somebody from "the East". Asia is usually defined as "East of
the Urals". Both are somewhat vague terms with meanings that have
changed over the centuries, but Wikipedia says the're pretty much the
equivalent:

The Orient means the East. It is a traditional designation for
anything that belongs to the Eastern world or the Middle East (aka
Near East) or the Far East, in relation to Europe. In English, it is
largely a metonym for, and coterminous with, the Continent of Asia.

Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
years.

> Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
> The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?

Either, both, maybe neither (it probably depends on the crowd).
Regardless of whether it's insulting, it's incorrect.

--
Grant

[et...@whidbey.com]

I hear that about over engineering stuff. When I was getting ready to
pour the floor for my shop I calculated the concrete thickness for the
various machines and then though about what happens if I move a
machine and then what happens if I buy a heavier machine or one with a
smaller footprint and so on. Then I realized how pointless this was in
my situation, So I had the concrete poured to 7 inch minimum
thickness, had fiber put in the concrete, and I put rebar and wire
mesh in place before the pour. It's a good thing too because I later
bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4
9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs.
Eric

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
>"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
>are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
>years.

Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?
They love black beans and rice. They didn't seem to be offended.
--
Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon

[G. Ross]

Danny D. wrote: 8>< Snip > At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and > WiFi and a great open view of the mountains. 8>< Snip You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be a place to escape all that stuff. GW Ross 1st Law of Thermodynamics: Go to class!!

[Danny D.]

G. Ross wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400:

> You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer.
> Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be
> a place to escape all that stuff.

Good point, but, this *is* the Silicon Valley environ ...

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400, "G. Ross" <gw...@comwest.net>
wrote:

>You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the
>beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
>would be a place to escape all that stuff.

The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further?

[Lew Hodgett]

"Danny D." wrote:


> Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds!

----------------------------------------------
In days of yore I worked as a design engineer for heavy duty
steel mill and foundry equipment, but that was then and this is now.

For designs involving steel cable and human safety, the basic
safety factor applied was 5.

IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.

Dynamic loading would apply another 50% derate.

IOW, 2,800*50% = 1,400 pounds for dynamic loads.

Based on the posts I have seen, your group needs some
serious help before people get hurt or worse.

Lew Hodgett, PE Retired

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:15 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway?
> The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards?
>
> (I don't know these things.)
>

I think everyone's offended, now days.
And you hurt my feelings by writing
that.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not
> me! :)
>

Does PRC have more attorneys, or Mexicans?

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/29/2014 7:42 PM, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
> thickness, had fiber put in the concrete, and I put rebar and wire
> mesh in place before the pour. It's a good thing too because I later
> bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4
> 9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs.
> Eric
>

Sounds like my elementary school lunch room
monitor woman. We used to call her Bubbles.

[Stormin Mormon]

With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a
signal from a neighbor?

[Oren]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:35:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon
<cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this
>>> would be a place to escape all that stuff.
>>
>> The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further?
>>
>With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a
>signal from a neighbor?

Who manages the network?

[John Robertson]

On 09/29/2014, 5:38 PM, G. Ross wrote:
> Danny D. wrote:
> 8>< Snip
>>
>> At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and
>> WiFi and a great open view of the mountains.
>>
>
> 8>< Snip
>
> You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer.
> Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be
> a place to escape all that stuff.
>

Hmm, well with two separate cables your power requirements are fine,
just run them on 24VAC @ 50A (120VAC @ 10A equivalent) and then use step
up transformer or AC to DC regulators to power everything in the tree
house. No unsightly wires!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Danny D.]

Lew Hodgett wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:29:57 -0700:

> IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.

Times two cables, which is 5,600 pounds, at least. :)

[John Robertson]

My last comments - this is not looking so good..

Bending a cable around a support weakens the cable - there is a formula
for that:

http://unirope.com/products/slings/wire-rope-slings/rigging-guidelines/dd-ratio-and-the-effect-on-sling-capacity/

So that derates the cable strength from 10% to 60% depending on the
curve. Note too that they are using wooden standoff/chocks to hold the
wire, I hope they chamfered a notch - but in any case the load is not
consistent on the tree, rather it is concentrated on only a few of those
wooden chocks. This is a derating aspect too.

Looking at picture:

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2944/15188634078_2b3de04150_c.jpg

It looks like the cable does a bit of a sharp bend where it leaves the
standoff...this is potentially a real problem - kinks are possible. The
pinching of the cable at the clamps also derates the cable strength...

Wire Rope is certainly varied in structure. However I do keep seeing the
1:5 load factor (1/5 of rating) in various Wire Rope 101 pamphlets...

It does appear that the folks selling wire rope are only too happy to
advise in its use - your friends would be advised to show them the
proposal for comment before they put too much weight on these wire ropes.

John

[josephkk]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 12:34:27 -0700, Dan Coby <adc...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 9/28/2014 9:50 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>... snip
>
>>
>> On the big tree, 125 feet away, we will add a wraparound additional
>> steel cable, so that the middle also has two cables.
>
>... snip
>
>>
>> Any other tips are welcome, as we're just now at the stage where
>> we have the ability to build the 125 foot long bridge starting
>> about 15 feet up in a pine, and then going straight across a
>> steep slope through the set of two redwoods, and then on to the
>> really big redwood 125 feet down the slope.
>>
>> The treehouse will be in the middle of the bridge.

>>
>
>Are you saying that the tree house will be in the middle of a 125 foot
>suspension bridge. How much will the tree house weigh when fully loaded
>and do you have any idea of the forces that may be in the cables?
>
>

>Dan

You better check it. Wind loads can exceed the dead loads by many times.
Wind loads may be the real issue.

?-)

[Grant Edwards]

On 2014-09-30, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
><inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
>>"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
>>are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
>>years.
>
> Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?

That's generally considered offensive, racist, and ignorant.

> They love black beans and rice. They didn't seem to be offended.

Perhaps they have better manners.

--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! This PORCUPINE knows
at his ZIPCODE ... And he has
gmail.com "VISA"!!

[Mike Marlow]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-09-30, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
>> <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US
>>> "English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people
>>> are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250
>>> years.
>>
>> Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"?
>
> That's generally considered offensive, racist, and ignorant.

No - that's considered a Politcally Correct way of thinking. It's neither
ignorant, nor is it offensive, unless someone like yourself decides to
declare it so. But - your declaration does not make it reality. I would
argue that regardless of the PC community, things like this are not at all
"generally considered" to be the way you view them.


--

-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net

[Leon]

On 9/29/2014 6:02 PM, Oren wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> <dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm just the free help (we
>> all have Spanish nicknames when we do free labor. I'm "Rodruigo", and my
>> wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example).
>>
>> I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they
>> don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date).
>
> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
>

Why did you say that? Having a Spanish nick name does not assess any
nationality at all.

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

I was suggesting to Danny, based on my experience, that Mexicans do
like to be called Spaniards. They take is personally. I can't speak
for every Mexican, just what I have observed. Call a Mexican a
"wetback" - they don't seem so bothered by it.

[Oren]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:32:29 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>>> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard!
>>>
>>
>>Why did you say that? Having a Spanish nick name does not assess any
>>nationality at all.
>
>I was suggesting to Danny, based on my experience, that Mexicans do
>like to be called Spaniards. They take is personally. I can't speak
>for every Mexican, just what I have observed. Call a Mexican a
>"wetback" - they don't seem so bothered by it.

Leon,

Read that as "do not like to be called Spaniards"...

[Lew Hodgett]

"Danny D." wrote:

>> Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds!
----------------------------------------------

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

> In days of yore I worked as a design engineer for heavy duty
> steel mill and foundry equipment, but that was then and this is now.
>
> For designs involving steel cable and human safety, the basic
> safety factor applied was 5.
>
> IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.
>
> Dynamic loading would apply another 50% derate.
>
> IOW, 2,800*50% = 1,400 pounds for dynamic loads.
>
> Based on the posts I have seen, your group needs some
> serious help before people get hurt or worse.
>
> Lew Hodgett, PE Retired

-----------------------------------------------------
What I forgot to include was that the above design loads are for
tensile loads.

Bending loads require a further derate.

The reader is left to determine the value from any decent
structural engineering text.

And now you know one of the reasons why I'm retired.

Lew Hodgett, PE Retired

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/30/2014 8:37 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit.
>>
>> Dynamic loading would apply another 50% derate.

> Bending loads require a further derate.
>
> The reader is left to determine the value from any decent
> structural engineering text.
>
> And now you know one of the reasons why I'm retired.
>
> Lew Hodgett, PE Retired
>

Sounds like not much fort, at derate we're going.

--

[Danny D.]

Seymore4Head wrote, on Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:57:42 -0400:

> There is one picture of a guy standing right beside the tree. If he is
> 6' feet tall, then the top of the picture would be about 42 feet.

He's about 6'2" or 6'3" tall.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3901/15188714847_e77461b64d_c.jpg

And, those are the *small* redwoods halfway down.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3865/15195194790_8fe8c93589_c.jpg

The big redwood tree is another ten or twenty feet below that, downhill,
whereas the 100-foot long 10-feet wide suspension bridge will be level.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3873/15302627625_fc5bab3e26_c.jpg

It's a "home engineering" project, in the Santa Cruz mountains!

[Danny D.]

Danny D. wrote, on Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:09:36 +0000:

> BTW, today we devised a (potentially ingenious) method to *level* the
> two cables.
>
> I couldn't snap a picture because we were installing WiFi rooftop radios
> most of the day and I was using the cell phone for signal strength and
> interference observations, so the battery had died by the time we got to
> the treehouse.
>
> However, I'll explain in words, and later snap a picture for you, as to
> how we devised a "tool" to measure the respective cable sag.

Sorry it took me so long.

Here's a picture of the method we used to level the two 100 foot cables:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3948/15314983930_3c606db7b4_b.jpg

We basically made a ten-foot wide T-square, where we used a level on the
vertical bar to measure how level the two cables were.

If they weren't so high off the ground on the very steep slope, we'd just
hang a lead weight from the midpoint of each cable, with an even length
of rope for each cable - but we preferred to work at the only *flat* part
along the entire 100 foot length of the two cables.

It was really difficult working in the trees to pull the cable around as
it's both very high up in the air, as you can see by this netting we
rigged:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3928/15501340972_e31032dcd7_c.jpg

And, the last redwood tree downhill itself is pretty gnarly, as shown
here looking up at the same netting but from the safety of the ground:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5607/15498557171_df86936bcb_b.jpg

[Danny D.]

Danny D. wrote, on Sat, 11 Oct 2014 05:38:07 +0000:

> Here's a picture of the method we used to level the two 100 foot cables:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3948/15314983930_3c606db7b4_b.jpg

You can see the fencepost digger in that picture above, over to the left.

It wasn't easy, mainly because the California sediments are hard as rock
this time of year, and, we were roped to trees so we wouldn't fall down
the hill while we were drilling the fencepost hole in the slope:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5599/15501340252_51f138a020_b.jpg

It was my first fencepost hole in my life, so, I was surprised that the
two bags of concrete mix went in dry:
https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2947/15478564076_2f97dc13ea_c.jpg

Being on a 45 degree slope, it was impossible to keep the water in the
hole, so, we tried containing it with a cut-off bucket - but it didn't
work all that well to contain the water:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3937/15315052878_bdd8583976_c.jpg

The second fencepost hole, for the drawbridge-like structure, wasn't as
hard to drill as it was on a much (much) flatter portion of the hill
where a path crossed under the cables strung between the redwood trees:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5602/15314984030_b5cd30457c_b.jpg

The last step of the evening was to stain the boards that will be used
for the hundred foot long ten feet wide bridge from the top of the hill
to the far redwood tree:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5609/15501720095_aa0a849e04_c.jpg

[josephkk]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 05:48:37 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>It was my first fencepost hole in my life, so, I was surprised that the
>two bags of concrete mix went in dry:
> https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2947/15478564076_2f97dc13ea_c.jpg
>
>Being on a 45 degree slope, it was impossible to keep the water in the
>hole, so, we tried containing it with a cut-off bucket - but it didn't
>work all that well to contain the water:
> https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3937/15315052878_bdd8583976_c.jpg

When i have seen that done it didn't work out that well, the concrete
never set properly. Sometimes it had to be dug out a few years layer and
done normally mixed before placement after removing the mush.

?-)