1/4 " phone plugs loose.

[David Farber]

I was given some speaker cables to test which terminate with 1/4" phone
plugs. The complaint was that the sound cuts out and can be momentarily
corrected by jiggling the wire near the connector. I unscrewed the
sleeves and the wiring looked fine however I noticed that on some of the
plugs, if I firmly held the common terminal at the rear of the plug with
one hand, I could easily rotate the plug end with the other hand. Only
one of those loose plugs had issues with cutting out. Do all of these
plugs need replacing?

Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

[KenW]

I would try to clean them first or twist them around when plugged in.
Usually the 'tarnish' cannot be seen. Doing that now with 1/8" on an
Intel NUC computer.


KenW

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:28:48 -0700, David Farber
<farberbe...@aol.com> wrote:

Speaker cable is usually a pair of large gauge stranded wire. The
usual problem is that one strand from the bundle is not soldered in
place or there's no shrink tube insulation. As the cable is moved
around, that strand could short to the other speaker wire. If the
1/4" phone plug has a metal casing, it could also short to ground.
Rotating the connector is just another way of rotating the cable
inside the phone plug.

At the very least, resolder the connections, add shrink tube
insulation if possible, look for loose wire strands, etc. If these
are not possible or practical, put some insulation between the two
connections on the plug.

Also, if it's a cheap phone plug, I've had problem with the rivet that
holds the lug to the phone plug tip connection. They are sometimes
loose. Soldering it in place fixes that problems.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[David Farber]

Hi KenW,

I don't think you understood my question. If I hold the plug end in one
hand and the common terminal at the back end with the other hand, is it
normal to be able to rotate the plug while holding the back end steady?
Most of the plugs are rigid and cannot be rotated in this fashion.

[David Farber]

Hi Jeff,

I think it is your closing paragraph that applies here:

Also, if it's a cheap phone plug, I've had problem with the rivet that
> holds the lug to the phone plug tip connection. They are sometimes
> loose. Soldering it in place fixes that problems.

The rivet is not doing its job. I'll see if resoldering it does the
trick but if not...

Regarding this:

> Rotating the connector is just another way of rotating the cable
> inside the phone plug.

That is what's supposed to happen when the rivet is holding everything
together but in this instance, you can rotate the plug without twisting
anything at the opposite end. Is this a decent quality replacement plug?
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/neutrik/568-NP2X-B/10488987

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 10:59:55 -0700, David Farber

Ideally, the rivet and tip (center) lug should NOT rotate. If you
tear apart a connector (necessary sacrifice to the connector gods),
you'll find that the rivet is not a separate component but rather is
part of the wire that eventually goes to the connector tip (center). I
can usually grab the solder lug with pliers and rotate the lug
relative to the rivet with some force. However, lug should NOT be
flopping around loose. Try beating on the rivet with a drift punch to
get a better connection. If that doesn't play, solder the rivet to
the solder lug.

>Is this a decent quality replacement plug?
>https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/neutrik/568-NP2X-B/10488987

I have no idea. The data sheet doesn't show the internals and there's
no usable photo. At $6/ea, it would seem overpriced. Also, I don't
like dissimilar metals in connectors. The description has this
oddity:
6.35mm (0.250", 1/4") - Headphone Phono (RCA) Plug Mono Connector
Solder
That's not an RCA phono plug.

In my never humble opinion, you don't need an overprice designer phone
plug. Just something that was correctly assembled. Even the best of
connectors might have a few rejects.

I don't know what to recommend. You didn't provide any info on cable
dimensions so I can't be sure it will fit in the shell hole. Since
you don't seem to need too many, buy an assortment of likely and cheap
connectors and use what seems best:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=1%2F4+in+phone+plug>
If you have money to burn, Switchcraft is usually good:
<https://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=42>
<https://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=1253>

[David Farber]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the links. I was able to solder the rivet to the tip and now
the connection is solid. By the way, the cable is about 8mm in diameter.

[Rob]

Jack-style plugs (no matter if 1/4" or 3.5mm) and solid, reliable
connections are completly separate concepts.
The only permanent solution is to use another type of plug.

[David Farber]

Point taken!

Thanks for your reply.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:47:02 +0200, Rob <nom...@example.com> wrote:

>Jack-style plugs (no matter if 1/4" or 3.5mm) and solid, reliable
>connections are completly separate concepts.
>The only permanent solution is to use another type of plug.

Good point, but not very useful. For example, I used to get about 50
XLR connector type microphone cables and extensions every year to
repair from a local auditorium. About half failed because of failure
to follow common sense soldering and assembly instructions. The other
half were crude plastic clones of the real XLR connectors that simply
fell apart. Also, some junk shielded microphone cable along with the
usual creative wiring type errors:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=xlr+connector&tbm=isch>

At the same time, I also got a few random speaker connector repairs
using SpeakON connectors:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=speakon+connectors&tbm=isch>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector>
<<https://usa.yamaha.com/products/contents/proaudio/musicianspa/equipments/cable.html>
Same problems as XLR. Bad soldering, bad assembly, and a failure to
follow instructions. The problem for me with these speaker connectors
is that I had to do the work on site instead of my former office.
Another is where the speaker cables were installed without a service
loop.

In other words, even the best connectors can be a problem.

Disorganized Drivel:
1. I'm mostly retired and don't do this kind of work any more.
2. I lost money on every cable I repaired. They take too long to
repair.
3. The stage crew usually doesn't know how to solder or assemble
connectors but pretends that they do.
4. AV Install Nightmares private group on Facebook. I'm not a member.
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/133909986649315/>
5. Fixed wing aviation headset connectors use PJ-055 for the earphones
and PJ-068 for the microphone. The PJ-055 is the same as the 1/4"
connector under discussion. If there was anything inherently wrong
with the design of these connectors, the aviation headset industry
would have switched to something better long ago.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=PJ-055&tbm=isch>

[Rob]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:47:02 +0200, Rob <nom...@example.com> wrote:
>
>>Jack-style plugs (no matter if 1/4" or 3.5mm) and solid, reliable
>>connections are completly separate concepts.
>>The only permanent solution is to use another type of plug.
>
> Good point, but not very useful. For example, I used to get about 50
> XLR connector type microphone cables and extensions every year to
> repair from a local auditorium. About half failed because of failure
> to follow common sense soldering and assembly instructions. The other
> half were crude plastic clones of the real XLR connectors that simply
> fell apart. Also, some junk shielded microphone cable along with the
> usual creative wiring type errors:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector>
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=xlr+connector&tbm=isch>
>
> At the same time, I also got a few random speaker connector repairs
> using SpeakON connectors:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=speakon+connectors&tbm=isch>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakon_connector>
> <<https://usa.yamaha.com/products/contents/proaudio/musicianspa/equipments/cable.html>
> Same problems as XLR. Bad soldering, bad assembly, and a failure to
> follow instructions. The problem for me with these speaker connectors
> is that I had to do the work on site instead of my former office.
> Another is where the speaker cables were installed without a service
> loop.

But those are faults in the installation, failure to follow procedures.
That is different from faults in the DESIGN of the connectors!

Jack plugs fail even when they are installed correctly. Everone
knows bad contacts with jack plugs, and the procedure to recover
good contact. With RCA Phono plugs, about the same thing.

You will not have seen those issues with XLR or SpeakON.

[Clifford Heath]

Solder is very poor as a mechanical coupling. You should at least tape
it thoroughly to avoid rotational forces reaching the solder joint, it
it will fail again. BTDT!

CH

[Phil Allison]

Rob wrote:
=========

>
> But those are faults in the installation, failure to follow procedures.
> That is different from faults in the DESIGN of the connectors!
>
> Jack plugs fail even when they are installed correctly. Everone
> knows bad contacts with jack plugs, and the procedure to recover
> good contact. With RCA Phono plugs, about the same thing.
>
> You will not have seen those issues with XLR or SpeakON.
>

** Dodgy 1/4 inch jack connections sure are very common - mostly due to damage or corrosion of the female part on equipment.
Nickel plate wears off and corrodes, plastic frame jack sockets break apart if cables get yanked hard.

But XLR and Speakon type connections are not immune - I often see ones that do not work any more.
Cos there good ones and *bad* ones, famous brand examples being the former and cheap knock offs the latter.

I have seen examples where near new Speakon style 4 pin plugs failed to connect to perfectly good sockets.
Also, Speakons of all kinds will snap in half if the cable is yanked hard at right angles or is otherwise impacted.

Plastic body XLR panel females are good only for so long - then become damaged, intermittent and hard to fix.

You get what you pay for and connectors subjected to regular heavy use *need* to be the more expensive types.


...... Phil

[legg]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 09:30:08 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

If ever you've come across original phone jacks from before ~1960,
you've seen hardware that still works into its 7th+ decade.
These incorporated ring terminals and threaded machine screws
with lock washers, internally.

You can make anything in a shoddy manner. Price rules.

Largest source of failure in current product - even moulded
assemblies, involves lousy strain relief and physical manhandling.

RL

[Michael Terrell]

On Wednesday, July 21, 2021 at 7:59:34 AM UTC-4, legg wrote:
>
> If ever you've come across original phone jacks from before ~1960,
> you've seen hardware that still works into its 7th+ decade.
> These incorporated ring terminals and threaded machine screws
> with lock washers, internally.
>
> You can make anything in a shoddy manner. Price rules.
>

> Largest source of failure in current product - even molded

> assemblies, involves lousy strain relief and physical manhandling.

I always used Switchcraft. I've had idiots drive over their inline 1/4" plugs and jacks while mated. The only damages was a few scratches on the body. I still have a few NOS WWII surplus telephone switchboard plugs that were made from unplated brass These saw heavy use in telephone service and on military radios without failures. If left unused for a long time, you had to use metal polish to remove the oxide, but daily use prevented any buildup.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/switchcraft-inc/280F/7672094 has a flexible strain relief, instead of just a clamp like the one to OP listed.

[David Farber]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the details about the Switchcraft plug. I think it's worth a
couple of extra bucks to get a part that will stand up to some heavy use
and some rough handling too.

--
David Farber
Los Osos,CA

[Phil Allison]

David Farber wrote:
=================

>
>
> Thanks for the details about the Switchcraft plug. I think it's worth a
> couple of extra bucks to get a part that will stand up to some heavy use
> and some rough handling too.

** The Neutrik jack plugs are way stronger - for a bit more.

Damn near unbreakable and have a good cable clamp.


..... Phil

[Michael Terrell]

They always served me well. Some dislike their product line because you need a 1/8" screwdriver to open their XLR cable connectors, but they were a huge improvement over both Amphenol and the original Cannon designs were the screws weren't captive. I've had people tell me that Neutrik were better, but they only clamped the cable, there was no strain relief. I was in the sound rental business. Some of our cables were so old that the rubber jackets were cracking but the Switchcraft connectors were moved to more modern cable as they were retired. Some of out 70V speaker cables were 250 feet long. They were made with Belden ribbed cable that didn't twist, We would take a step backwards as each turn was wrapped around your hand and elbow to pull the cable towards you. The coil would lay completely flat, after that, and could be quickly laid down by dropping loops as you walked away from one spot to the next. I had three high school graduations, in three cities one day. I did all three with one system, and two helpers. It would have been impossible with low grade cables. Sadly, Belden no longer makes that grade of ribbed cable. It was used on many power cords used by HP and Tektronix. I lucked out recently and bough 25 new six foot ribbed replacement power cords on Ebay for under $2 each. They will replace the power cables n a lot of my older test equipment.