Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Fluke 8060a meter interconnect strip
353 views
Skip to first unread message
ohg...@gmail.com
May 1, 2016, 3:41:23 PM5/1/16
to
I have an old IBM labelled Fluke built DMM (8060a equivalent) that hasn't worked in years for reasons I don't recall exactly, but seem to think it was stone dead. I had it apart and left in a box and, since my last 87 crapped out a few weeks ago, I needed the low ohms feature of one or the other so I took another look at the old IBM.
I found just about every electrolytic on the board physically leaky, and most down in value and ESR, some considerably. I replaced them all but when assembling the meter, I checked the two flexible rubber interconnect strips. One of them is round and reads zero ohms all across it's length, so that one's good.
The other is a flat rectangular piece, and I cannot get any kind of resistance reading *anywhere* across it. I've cleaned it several times including using an abrasive last time and cannot get a whiff of conductance, and I've put considerable pressure on the test leads. I guess it being unassembled and sitting in free air must have poisoned it somehow as I don't recall it having any issues with erratic segments before the meter died.
It will be easy to hard wire this but was wondering if this is a low ohm transfer strip of something maybe a few ohms to a few thousand. If it's low ohms, I'll just hard wire it. If it's something other, there's plenty of room to put in 1/8 w resistors of appropriate value.
Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
I found just about every electrolytic on the board physically leaky, and most down in value and ESR, some considerably. I replaced them all but when assembling the meter, I checked the two flexible rubber interconnect strips. One of them is round and reads zero ohms all across it's length, so that one's good.
The other is a flat rectangular piece, and I cannot get any kind of resistance reading *anywhere* across it. I've cleaned it several times including using an abrasive last time and cannot get a whiff of conductance, and I've put considerable pressure on the test leads. I guess it being unassembled and sitting in free air must have poisoned it somehow as I don't recall it having any issues with erratic segments before the meter died.
It will be easy to hard wire this but was wondering if this is a low ohm transfer strip of something maybe a few ohms to a few thousand. If it's low ohms, I'll just hard wire it. If it's something other, there's plenty of room to put in 1/8 w resistors of appropriate value.
Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
pf...@aol.com
May 1, 2016, 4:17:44 PM5/1/16
to
On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-4, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
It would not be in the best interest of any (legitimate) manufacturer to build a precision-resistance into an interconnect strip. As you have discovered, they can be volatile, and any actual planned resistance will necessarily generate heat - leading to even quicker failure.
> Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
Hardwire it - and if it works properly (and it should if this is the only problem), you are done.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
ohg...@gmail.com
May 1, 2016, 5:00:09 PM5/1/16
to
In any case, I'll take your advice and hard wire it when I get to work tomorrow and see what happens.
John
Wolfgang Allinger
May 1, 2016, 5:05:15 PM5/1/16
to
On 01 May 16 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article 1ec60e64-b347-4d72...@googlegroups.com
http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/
with the answer from Jack on August 18,2014 near the end
Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang
--
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit) iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot
Jeff Liebermann
May 1, 2016, 5:53:42 PM5/1/16
to
On Sun, 1 May 2016 12:41:20 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
Some photos of the insides of an 8024a, which is fairly close in
>Anyone know the approximate resistance of the strip?
construction to an 8060a.
<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-8024b-33-years-old-and-still-going-strong!-beware-3mb-photos/>
The ribbon cable:
<http://s193.photobucket.com/user/Bl4ckW0lfi3/media/Fluke8024B-09_zps4b433951.jpg.html>
The ribbon cable between the two boards is made from screened
graphite, which tends to crack if flexed. I found a similar ribbon
cable, but made from flattened copper wire that looked more reliable.
I removed the original ribbon cable, clamped in the new cable, and
after a bit of jiggling, got it to make a connection without
soldering. Once it was working, I used hot melt glue to hold it in
place. I suppose soldering would have been easier, but at the time, I
didn't want to wreck the meter.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Message has been deleted
ohg...@gmail.com
May 2, 2016, 11:39:00 AM5/2/16
to
For the heck of it, I took a straight edge and a sharp razor and removed about a 16th from both sides of the rubber conductive strip, and still no continuity whatsoever, so I hard wired the display.
It now starts, boots, and passes the power up test. The display is clear and has full contrast.
The problem is that it's reading voltages and resistances that don't exist, even though it does read my test voltages and resistances. I guess I have to take this apart again and do a better job of cleaning the electrolyte off the board.
The link posted by an earlier poster shows problems with leakage below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively clean this in one shot.
John
ohg...@gmail.com
May 2, 2016, 2:06:54 PM5/2/16
to
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 11:39:00 AM UTC-4, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
> The link posted by an earlier poster shows problems with leakage below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively clean this in one shot.
>
> John
I pulled the main IC/socket and there's no sign of leakage on or under the socket pins or board. The capacitor leakage seems to be contained under the switch assy.
> The link posted by an earlier poster shows problems with leakage below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively clean this in one shot.
>
> John
I removed three variable caps which hugged the board and removed the power switch. Every other part is either high enough off the board not to be touched by a very shallow bath or would not be unaffected by one. Next plan is to give it a hot shallow bath of distilled water followed by a wash of IPA and a few hours in the hot box. I have other things on my bench right now so I won't play any more with this for a few days at least.
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 2, 2016, 2:14:13 PM5/2/16
to
On Mon, 2 May 2016 08:37:14 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>Other than the shape of the boards, they're not much alike.
article, so I guessed that they were the same from memory. Sorry for
the misinformation.
<http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/>
>The problem is that it's reading voltages and resistances that don't
>exist, even though it does read my test voltages and resistances.
>I guess I have to take this apart again and do a better job of
>cleaning the electrolyte off the board.
>
8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll
drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip
resistance for you (probably tomorrow). Meanwhile, this might offer a
clue as to the resistance;
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastomeric_connector>
<http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/design-guidelines/89.html>
Unrelated dumb question. The three case screws for this Fluke 8060A
seem to have walked away. What's the thread designation so I can buy
some replacements? There's plenty similar screws on eBay:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+screws>
but none specifically for the 8000 series DMM. $1.50/ea including
shipping. I'll probably do better at the hardware store
Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
<http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
>Other than the shape of the boards, they're not much alike.
>The 8060 has no flexible membrane circuit.
Oops. I couldn't find any decent 8060a photos other than the repair
article, so I guessed that they were the same from memory. Sorry for
the misinformation.
<http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/>
>The problem is that it's reading voltages and resistances that don't
>exist, even though it does read my test voltages and resistances.
>I guess I have to take this apart again and do a better job of
>cleaning the electrolyte off the board.
>
>The link posted by an earlier poster shows problems with leakage
>below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only
>problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem
>is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display
>hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively
>clean this in one shot.
Well, I may join you on this repair. I just found my long lost Fluke
>below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only
>problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem
>is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display
>hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively
>clean this in one shot.
8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll
drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip
resistance for you (probably tomorrow). Meanwhile, this might offer a
clue as to the resistance;
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastomeric_connector>
<http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/design-guidelines/89.html>
Unrelated dumb question. The three case screws for this Fluke 8060A
seem to have walked away. What's the thread designation so I can buy
some replacements? There's plenty similar screws on eBay:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+screws>
but none specifically for the 8000 series DMM. $1.50/ea including
shipping. I'll probably do better at the hardware store
Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
<http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
ohg...@gmail.com
May 2, 2016, 4:57:05 PM5/2/16
to
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:14:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
> <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
>
>
You lost the screws, somewhere along the way I lost one of the push buttons. Too bad I can't get one of those in a hardware store! :)
> Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
> <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
>
>
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 2, 2016, 9:06:34 PM5/2/16
to
On Mon, 2 May 2016 13:57:02 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:14:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
>> <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
>> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
>You lost the screws,
I several large candy jars that are full of random hardware. I
>On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:14:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in:
>> <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf>
>> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750
>You lost the screws,
probably tossed the screws in one of them. It's easier to buy
replacements than to excavate them from the jars. Needle in haystack.
The local Ace hardware store didn't have any plastic screws.
>somewhere along the way I lost one
>of the push buttons. Too bad I can't get one of those in a
>hardware store! :)
equipment cannibals:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+dvm+switch+cover>
Notice that the LCD display is starting to turn black along the bottom
edge. Most of my various Fluke meters have the same problem.
I tore my 8050a apart and tooks some photos and measurements:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/>
This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
while this one measures about 5 ohms:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg>
Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining
whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of
them in parallel. I didn't want to drag out the microscope, so I
resorted to a trick. I placed the flat side of one DVM probe across a
section of the strip so that it would connect to a large number of
conductive strips. I then used a very sharp needle tip to make
contact on the other side. It wasn't perfect, but I think it was good
enough.
More photos when I have time. Anything else you want photographed or
measured?
Jeff Liebermann
May 3, 2016, 12:10:10 AM5/3/16
to
On Mon, 02 May 2016 11:14:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>Well, I may join you on this repair. I just found my long lost Fluke
>8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll
>drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip
>resistance for you (probably tomorrow).
Curses, foiled again. While tearing apart the meter, taking photos,
and putting it back together, I managed to transfer enough blood,
sweat, and tears onto the PCB and components to wreck the calibration
and add some more leakage. Instead of +1.5mv of residual junk on the
200mv scale, I now have about -7mv of leakage. The next time I work on
this meter, I'll remember to use latex or nitrile gloves. 90% alcohol
and bake dry scheduled for next weekend.
wrote:
>Well, I may join you on this repair. I just found my long lost Fluke
>8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll
>drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip
>resistance for you (probably tomorrow).
and putting it back together, I managed to transfer enough blood,
sweat, and tears onto the PCB and components to wreck the calibration
and add some more leakage. Instead of +1.5mv of residual junk on the
200mv scale, I now have about -7mv of leakage. The next time I work on
this meter, I'll remember to use latex or nitrile gloves. 90% alcohol
and bake dry scheduled for next weekend.
ohg...@gmail.com
May 3, 2016, 7:46:29 AM5/3/16
to
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:06:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
>
> while this one measures about 5 ohms:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg>
>
> Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining
> whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of
> them in parallel.
The conductors are *very* dense in this particular zebra strip and I'd guess that there's at a minimum 10 conductors presented across the large pads on the boards they make contact with, so I'd venture that if they're 5 ohms each and 10 or more are paralleled across the pads, a wire jumper is just fine.
> This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
>
> while this one measures about 5 ohms:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg>
>
> Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining
> whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of
> them in parallel.
> More photos when I have time. Anything else you want photographed or
> measured?
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
No, I think I'm OK at this point. After it takes it's IPA bath I'll reassemble and see where I'm at. Thanks for the information!
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
If the meter turns out OK, I'll probably pick up a DOA meter on ebay for parts, including the missing button. If the meter still is a bit wonky, I'll remove the switch pack and give it an ultrasonic bath.
The bottom of my display looks exactly like yours. Are you sure this is abnormal? The bottom edge is where the round zebra strip contacts the LCD electrically on the back side, so maybe that thicker area is normal. The border around the entire LCD display is black although much thinner.
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 3, 2016, 11:29:28 AM5/3/16
to
On Tue, 3 May 2016 04:46:25 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:06:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
>>
>> while this one measures about 5 ohms:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg>
>>
>> Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining
>> whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of
>> them in parallel.
>The conductors are *very* dense in this particular zebra strip and
>I'd guess that there's at a minimum 10 conductors presented across
>the large pads on the boards they make contact with, so I'd venture
>that if they're 5 ohms each and 10 or more are paralleled across
>the pads, a wire jumper is just fine.
Yep. I can measure the resistance from PCB pad to pad in that area
>On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:06:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
>>
>> while this one measures about 5 ohms:
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg>
>>
>> Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining
>> whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of
>> them in parallel.
>The conductors are *very* dense in this particular zebra strip and
>I'd guess that there's at a minimum 10 conductors presented across
>the large pads on the boards they make contact with, so I'd venture
>that if they're 5 ohms each and 10 or more are paralleled across
>the pads, a wire jumper is just fine.
if you want. However, it will need to wait a few days. Bizzeee.
I had quite a struggle reassembling the LCD display. The LCD glass
fits into a slot of sorts in the plastic frame that requires the Zebra
strip to be compressed. Insert just the glass LCD plate first and use
brute force to compress the Zebra strip. Then, slide in the plastic
screen protector and frame. If anyone has a better way, I would be
interested.
> After it takes it's IPA bath I'll reassemble and see where I'm at.
> Thanks for the information!
<http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/>
(near the bottom) says to let it dry for a few hours after an alcohol
bath. I've had the same experience. Alcohol absorbs moisture from
the air and will dump this moisture onto the PCB during cleaning. It
takes a while to evaporate.
>If the meter turns out OK, I'll probably pick up a DOA meter on ebay
>for parts, including the missing button. If the meter still is a bit
>wonky, I'll remove the switch pack and give it an ultrasonic bath.
cleaner. It tends to kill semiconductor devices with unsupported wire
bonds to the chip. I suggest using a brush instead. A brush doesn't
get under IC sockets and overhanging components, so I like flood the
area with alcohol, let it sit for about 30 seconds, and blow it out
with compressed air. Not the best way, but better than shaking the
meter to death. I haven't done too many DVM's so I don't know what a
solvent bath will do the rotary switch.
>The bottom of my display looks exactly like yours. Are you sure
>this is abnormal? The bottom edge is where the round zebra strip
>contacts the LCD electrically on the back side, so maybe that thicker
>area is normal. The border around the entire LCD display is black
>although much thinner.
much more extreme black edge smear on other Fluke LCD displays. Here's
an 8020A display disassembled:
<http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/mrmodemhead/media/Fluke%208020B/F8020B_018.jpg.html>
It has a black border, but it's very different from the 8060a:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg>
You might be right as the black line seems rather consistent instead
of the creeping black blob caused by case leakage. I'll put it under
the microscope later and double check. This is what it *MIGHT* look
like eventually:
<http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31080&d=1260895739>
<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/recovery-of-an-old-fluke-8020a-with-a-bad-lcd/?action=dlattach;attach=5445>
<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/just-got-my-'new'-multimeter-the-family-become-larger/?action=dlattach;attach=1305;image>
Still looking for the missing case screws. No luck so far.
--
ohg...@gmail.com
May 4, 2016, 1:23:12 PM5/4/16
to
On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 3:41:23 PM UTC-4, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 4, 2016, 2:59:17 PM5/4/16
to
On Wed, 4 May 2016 10:23:09 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>I removed the switch assy, the main IC socket, and the variable capacitors from the board. Several rounds of 91% IPA bathing has not cleaned the sticky electrolyte off the board, except where I could get an acid brush in to scrub. Two remaining options are to remove every other part off the board and scrub with a fiber brush or go to a more aggressive cleaner. I'm going with option two and see what happens.
>John
Older electrolytic capacitors used ethylene glycol and boric acid for
>I removed the switch assy, the main IC socket, and the variable capacitors from the board. Several rounds of 91% IPA bathing has not cleaned the sticky electrolyte off the board, except where I could get an acid brush in to scrub. Two remaining options are to remove every other part off the board and scrub with a fiber brush or go to a more aggressive cleaner. I'm going with option two and see what happens.
>John
electrolyte. Later versions used dimethylformamide,
dimethylacetamide, or butyrolactone. If you look these up on
Wikipedia, the table on the right includes solubility:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylacetamide>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylformamide>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Butyrolactone>
I would try detergent and water first, followed by a distilled or
deoinized water rinse. If that fails, start up the ladder of
chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents, starting with alcohol. I wouldn't
go much past trichlorethane or trichlorethylene which will probably
peel off the PCB printing, labels, and maybe the silk screening. Some
of these will also attack the epoxy that holds the PCB together. Be
careful and good luck.
Ralph Mowery
May 4, 2016, 5:59:53 PM5/4/16
to
In article <rtgkibdr3po7m4lkn...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...
board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
je...@cruzio.com says...
>
> I would try detergent and water first, followed by a distilled or
> deoinized water rinse. If that fails, start up the ladder of
> chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents, starting with alcohol. I wouldn't
> go much past trichlorethane or trichlorethylene which will probably
> peel off the PCB printing, labels, and maybe the silk screening. Some
> of these will also attack the epoxy that holds the PCB together. Be
> careful and good luck.
I have seen references to mixing IPA and acetone 50/50 to do some PC
> I would try detergent and water first, followed by a distilled or
> deoinized water rinse. If that fails, start up the ladder of
> chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents, starting with alcohol. I wouldn't
> go much past trichlorethane or trichlorethylene which will probably
> peel off the PCB printing, labels, and maybe the silk screening. Some
> of these will also attack the epoxy that holds the PCB together. Be
> careful and good luck.
board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
ohg...@gmail.com
May 4, 2016, 6:07:57 PM5/4/16
to
Anyway, your advice to avoid ultrasonic cleaners made way too much sense so I went ahead and soaked the board with my favorite circuit board cleaner; Fantastik. After a few soaks and rinses, the board looks, well, fantastic. It's clean as a whistle and all the goo is gone, including the crap under the inline packages and ICs. I rinsed in distilled water and now it's getting it's last IPA bath. I'll let it dry and reassemble in a few days and hope for the best.
And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about 8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 4, 2016, 8:15:26 PM5/4/16
to
On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:07:53 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>That makes a lot of sense. As I was unsoldering all the leaky caps,
>I never once got a whiff of low tide. When I was rebuilding Sony
>and Canon camcorders in the 90s most of them needed 40 or 50
>smd caps, and my bench smelled like catch of the day. Clearly
>the formulation is different for the caps in the Flukes from
>what we see nowadays.
Yep. Lots of changes in electrolyte. I really don't know what Fluke
>That makes a lot of sense. As I was unsoldering all the leaky caps,
>I never once got a whiff of low tide. When I was rebuilding Sony
>and Canon camcorders in the 90s most of them needed 40 or 50
>smd caps, and my bench smelled like catch of the day. Clearly
>the formulation is different for the caps in the Flukes from
>what we see nowadays.
was using.
>Anyway, your advice to avoid ultrasonic cleaners made way too
>much sense so I went ahead and soaked the board with my favorite
>circuit board cleaner; Fantastik.
some residue that didn't evaporate. Fortunately, most seemed to wash
off with deionized water, so it wasn't fatal. Residue was easy enough
to detect by leaving a blob of Fantastik on a microscope slide, let it
evaporate, and inspect the bathtub ring. There wasn't much, but there
was enough to make me worry.
Fantastik has changed their formulation over the years. This should
be the latest (Formula 35*19431):
<http://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/en/brands/fantastik/fantastik-mini-concentrated-kitchen-cleaner>
I have a small problem with the oily fragrance, which does evaporate,
but very slowly. The stabilizer and dye also might leave a residue,
but I'm not sure. Both 409 and Fantastik are highly alkaline (pH=10.5
to 11.5), which should not be a problem. The grease was cleaned by
the inclusion of ethyl alcohol.
>After a few soaks and rinses, the board looks, well, fantastic.
>It's clean as a whistle and all the goo is gone, including the crap
>under the inline packages and ICs. I rinsed in distilled water and
>now it's getting it's last IPA bath. I'll let it dry and reassemble
>in a few days and hope for the best.
to see if the PCB is still leaking. I know mine is leaking from all
my unprotected handling.
>And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have
>off a non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter
>crapped about 8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if
>you want the other two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so
>it'll be a week.
finish my 8060A. However, if you think you're going to eventually fix
the Model 85, I suggest you keep them. I'll eventually find where I
misplaced my screws or find replacements.
Also, I'm still not sure about the black line at the bottom of the
LCD. However, I'm inclined to believer that you're correct and that
mine is normal. When reassembled, the screen does not show the black
line and everything else looks normal.
Jeff Liebermann
May 4, 2016, 8:32:25 PM5/4/16
to
On Wed, 4 May 2016 17:59:53 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I have seen references to mixing IPA and acetone 50/50 to do some PC
>board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
No. Bad idea. Don't do that.
<rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I have seen references to mixing IPA and acetone 50/50 to do some PC
>board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
Acetone will attack many plastics (ABS, polycarbonate, polystyrene,
polyethylene, vinyl, etc). Before you use ANY manner of solvent, do
some research on a "chemical compatibility chart" for the materials
you expect to be using.
<https://capolight.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/solvent_compatibility.jpg>
Be sure to check compatibility with epoxy, as that's what the PCB is
made from.
For example:
<http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance>
shows that:
ABS plastic and acetone = "Severe Effect"
ABS plastic and 50% acetone and water = "Severe Effect"
Also, I guess I should mention that there are many different types of
alcohols (amyl, benzyl, butyl, diacetone, ethyl, hexyl, ibsbutyl,
methyl, octyl, propyl, etc). Characteristics vary so don't assume
that some random alcohol is safe just because isopropyl alcohol didn't
destroy some plastic. I had to learn that lesson when I switched to
the "alcohol" sold by the local hardware store, and found it far more
aggressive than the 91% drug store variety.
Ralph Mowery
May 4, 2016, 11:46:52 PM5/4/16
to
In article <074lib920jf21474u...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...
PC boards.
je...@cruzio.com says...
>
> On Wed, 4 May 2016 17:59:53 -0400, Ralph Mowery
> <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I have seen references to mixing IPA and acetone 50/50 to do some PC
> >board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
>
> No. Bad idea. Don't do that.
>
> Acetone will attack many plastics (ABS, polycarbonate, polystyrene,
> polyethylene, vinyl, etc). Before you use ANY manner of solvent, do
> some research on a "chemical compatibility chart" for the materials
> you expect to be using.
> <https://capolight.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/solvent_compatibility.jpg>
> Be sure to check compatibility with epoxy, as that's what the PCB is
> made from.
>
> For example:
> <http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance>
> shows that:
> ABS plastic and acetone = "Severe Effect"
> ABS plastic and 50% acetone and water = "Severe Effect"
>
Thanks for the chart. I will stay away from the acetone/ipa mix for the
> On Wed, 4 May 2016 17:59:53 -0400, Ralph Mowery
> <rmower...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I have seen references to mixing IPA and acetone 50/50 to do some PC
> >board cleaning. Any thing good or bad about doing that ?
>
> No. Bad idea. Don't do that.
>
> Acetone will attack many plastics (ABS, polycarbonate, polystyrene,
> polyethylene, vinyl, etc). Before you use ANY manner of solvent, do
> some research on a "chemical compatibility chart" for the materials
> you expect to be using.
> <https://capolight.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/solvent_compatibility.jpg>
> Be sure to check compatibility with epoxy, as that's what the PCB is
> made from.
>
> For example:
> <http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance>
> shows that:
> ABS plastic and acetone = "Severe Effect"
> ABS plastic and 50% acetone and water = "Severe Effect"
>
PC boards.
ohg...@gmail.com
May 5, 2016, 1:10:19 PM5/5/16
to
On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:15:26 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
I could use the screws to
> finish my 8060A. However, if you think you're going to eventually fix
> the Model 85, I suggest you keep them. I'll eventually find where I
> misplaced my screws or find replacements.
>
The 85 has a bad p channel jfet sot23 and I've had a problem locating one, so I put the meter aside. But some time before it crapped, the sounder would squawk for no reason so something else was going on with it. I isolated the sounder for the last year I used it. Also, the terminal blocks on these are crap and this one was breaking up, so I retired it.
>
I could use the screws to
> finish my 8060A. However, if you think you're going to eventually fix
> the Model 85, I suggest you keep them. I'll eventually find where I
> misplaced my screws or find replacements.
>
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 11, 2016, 11:30:18 PM5/11/16
to
>And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a
>non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
>8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
>two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
>John
Thanks. Got the screws today. They fit nicely in the 8060A. However,
>non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
>8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
>two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
>John
there's a bit of an oddity here.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-screws.jpg>
The Model 85 screws fit in the 8060A, but the original screws (as
borrowed from an 8024A) are a bit different. Notice the double
spiral, the different pitch, and that the 8024a screw is a bit larger
diameter. Which style does your 8060A use?
Incidentally, when I removed the 40 pin chip from its socket, I found
that some of the socket contacts had gotten wet and started to
corrode. I've also got an offset on most scales thanks to leakage
across the PCB. Looks like I'll be replacing the socket with
something better, and giving the PCB an alcohol rubdown.
ohg...@gmail.com
May 12, 2016, 11:15:48 AM5/12/16
to
On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 11:30:18 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:07:53 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a
> >non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
> >8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
> >two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
> >John
>
> Thanks. Got the screws today. They fit nicely in the 8060A. However,
> there's a bit of an oddity here.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-screws.jpg>
> The Model 85 screws fit in the 8060A, but the original screws (as
> borrowed from an 8024A) are a bit different. Notice the double
> spiral, the different pitch, and that the 8024a screw is a bit larger
> diameter. Which style does your 8060A use?
>
The screws from my IBM 8060A are the double helix. The screws I sent you did not actually come from my 85, but from a newer 77. When asking around if anyone had any dead Flukes (trying to locate that p-jfet for my 85), I was given a 77 that was blasted by a microwave oven. The 77 didn't have the jfet I needed so I ended up fixing the 77 and returning it to the donator as a gift, but not before swapping the screws with some generic screws I had as payment :). Those I sent to you because there were three and I only had two from the 85. Whew!
> On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:07:53 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a
> >non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
> >8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
> >two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
> >John
>
> Thanks. Got the screws today. They fit nicely in the 8060A. However,
> there's a bit of an oddity here.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-screws.jpg>
> The Model 85 screws fit in the 8060A, but the original screws (as
> borrowed from an 8024A) are a bit different. Notice the double
> spiral, the different pitch, and that the 8024a screw is a bit larger
> diameter. Which style does your 8060A use?
>
> Incidentally, when I removed the 40 pin chip from its socket, I found
> that some of the socket contacts had gotten wet and started to
> corrode. I've also got an offset on most scales thanks to leakage
> across the PCB. Looks like I'll be replacing the socket with
> something better, and giving the PCB an alcohol rubdown.
>
John
Jeff Liebermann
May 12, 2016, 7:31:54 PM5/12/16
to
On Thu, 12 May 2016 08:15:45 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 11:30:18 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:07:53 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a
>> >non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
>> >8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
>> >two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
>> >John
>>
>> Thanks. Got the screws today. They fit nicely in the 8060A. However,
>> there's a bit of an oddity here.
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-screws.jpg>
>> The Model 85 screws fit in the 8060A, but the original screws (as
>> borrowed from an 8024A) are a bit different. Notice the double
>> spiral, the different pitch, and that the 8024a screw is a bit larger
>> diameter. Which style does your 8060A use?
>The screws from my IBM 8060A are the double helix.
Thanks. Those are almost impossible to find. I think it's a
>On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 11:30:18 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 May 2016 15:07:53 -0700 (PDT), ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >And if that's your ground mail, I can send you two screws I have off a
>> >non-working 85 that I think needs a main chip. This meter crapped about
>> >8 years ago and I misplaced one of the screws, but if you want the other
>> >two, they're yours. I'm on the east coast so it'll be a week.
>> >John
>>
>> Thanks. Got the screws today. They fit nicely in the 8060A. However,
>> there's a bit of an oddity here.
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-screws.jpg>
>> The Model 85 screws fit in the 8060A, but the original screws (as
>> borrowed from an 8024A) are a bit different. Notice the double
>> spiral, the different pitch, and that the 8024a screw is a bit larger
>> diameter. Which style does your 8060A use?
>The screws from my IBM 8060A are the double helix.
#7-19 3/4" High Low Thread Forming Screw. Digging:
<http://www.eaglefastener.net/technical/hilo-fastener-table.html>
My digital calipers claims it's a #7-19 and 19 tpi which seems about
right. Nothing on eBay. I can't seem to find any that I can order,
but will continue digging. I also need to verify the size, which
seems rather odd.
>The screws I sent
>you did not actually come from my 85, but from a newer 77.
>When asking around if anyone had any dead Flukes (trying to locate
>that p-jfet for my 85),
is the reference designator so I know which one?
>I was given a 77 that was blasted by a microwave oven.
someone thinking when they put the DVM in the oven? Is this the same
person that tried to dry their poodle in the micrwave?
>The 77 didn't have the jfet I needed so I ended up fixing the 77
>and returning it to the donator as a gift, but not before swapping
>the screws with some generic screws I had as payment :).
>Those I sent to you because there were three and I only had two
>from the 85. Whew!
I have about 5 assorted Fluke meters scattered around. Most are held
together with one screw and a rubber band. Most are the older models,
which take the high-low thread forming screws. I hadn't planned on
doing this for a while, but I guess now that I've started, it's time
to replace the missing parts, fix any battle damage, clean the crud
out of the guts, and calibrate the meters.
>When I removed the chip from the socket, I found there was no
>corrosion evident but two of the tangs in the socket came apart,
>so I ordered a new socket and put the repair on hold until it arrives.
height). I had the same problem with the existing socket. Where the
corrosive goo from the electrolytic or water rotted out the socket,
one of the contacts fell out. However, I cleaned the other contact,
which still works... for now. I guess I should stock up on replacment
electrolytics and just do a pre-emptive replacement. Sigh, the
project grows.
0 new messages