Phonetic Alphabet Tables
Peter Aberrant
|
Phonetic Alphabet Tables Useful for spelling words and names over the phone. cut out the table containing phonetic alphabet (below), and tape it to the side of your phone when you are on the telephone it could be some help. and post it to your electronic email groups I was inspired to post this page and post it online when I overheard a co-worker say "L, as in Log" over the phone. normally one would not say V as in victor P as in Papa, G as in Golf but Victor Papa, Golf for VPG |
NATO Phonetic Alphabet
|
Rod Speed
Peter Aberrant <som...@zxy.com> wrote
in message news:4083...@clear.net.nz...
> Phonetic Alphabet Tables
> Useful for spelling words and names over the phone.
> cut out the table containing phonetic alphabet (below),
> and tape it to the side of your phone when you are on
> the telephone it could be some help.
Dont need to, its permanently embedded in my head.
> and post it to your electronic email groups
No thanks.
> I was inspired to post this page and post it online when
> I overheard a co-worker say "L, as in Log" over the phone.
The phonetic table was designed to work when the comms
channel is awful. That isnt true with modern phone calls.
The non official approach works fine.
> normally one would not say V as in victor P as in
> Papa, G as in Golf but Victor Papa, Golf for VPG
The official table does work suprisingly well even
with recipients who have never even heard of it.
WEBPA
the early 1920s. A NATO committee put quite a bit of effort into the current
table in the (? mid-1950s) to produce a set usable in all major alliance
languagues (even French).
It is specifically designed to avoid ambiguous start-mid-end sounds in words
like "log"....dog? hog? bog? lag? gag? ... USW.
If you've never needed to "spell it out" on a cellphone, then you don't use a
cellphone much (on any continent).
webpa
N Cook
Phonetic Alphabet Tables
All very good for clarity.
The version you post, i believe is that used internationally by air traffic
control but unfortunately I think there are different flavours, sorry
flavors.
Don't Americans use Radio instead of Romeo and something other than
F-Foxtrot
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~diverse
Iain Chalmers
"N Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.antyspahm.uk> wrote:
> The version you post, i believe is that used internationally by air traffic
> control but unfortunately I think there are different flavours, sorry
> flavors.
A is fer 'orses
B fer cattle
C fer yourself...
;-)
big (P as in pneumonia, K as in knife, M as in mnemonic, G as in gnome)
--
"A magazine here has a bunch of bonobo's in the zoo and a bunch of
market analysts from major banks picking stocks weekly. So far the
bonobo's are turning in a profit and the analysts lose money. The
banks haven't made the logical step yet." - Lieven Marchand in SDM
Brian Reay
"Binary Era" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:koq980hheuoqrbqfi...@4ax.com...
> N Cook wrote:
>
> >Phonetic Alphabet Tables
>
> Has anyone got a list of the British Able Baker Charlie
> Dog.....alphabet?
>
Should be able to piece it together with a bit of research. Any RNARS or
Royal Signals members on the group?
I recall when I was first licensed working G3WDR "Woolly Dog Roger", must be
25 years back and it still gives me a laugh.
There is this:
http://www.486th.org/Photos/Letters/phonetic.htm
--
73
Brian
G8OSN
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk for FREE training material for all UK
amateur radio licences
www.phoenixradioclub.org.uk - a RADIO club specifically for those wishing
to learn more about amateur radio
Igor von Uberwald
> Phonetic Alphabet Tables
> NATO Phonetic Alphabet Letter phonetic letter
At the risk of being pedantic (won't be too noticeable here, then!) I
shoudl point out that it's the ICAO phonetic alphabet - International
Civil Aviation Organization. http://www.icao.int/
145, Pete/Igor PH1PH - G7ECN
Marty Wallace
"Igor von Uberwald" <igorub...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:e9b53b2a.04042...@posting.google.com...
Rubbish.
They don't have ownership of a phonetic alphabet.
And anyway you should know yourself that radio organisations refer to it as
the ITU recommended phonetics. (International Telecommunication Union)
Marty Wallace VK6ABC
Rod Speed
N Cook <dive...@tcp.co.antyspahm.uk> wrote in
message news:W5qdncV1WYE...@tcp.co.uk...
> Peter Aberrant <som...@zxy.com> wrote
>> Phonetic Alphabet Tables
Used for a hell of a lot more than just that, and its
used much more for national air traffic control too.
That is likely the most commonly used situation today.
> but unfortunately I think there are different flavours, sorry flavors.
Nope, its been standardised for a long time now.
> Don't Americans use Radio instead of Romeo
> and something other than F-Foxtrot
Nope.
A little something to really blow your 'mind'
http://www.bckelk.uklinux.net/phon.full.html
Rod Speed
>> Phonetic Alphabet Tables
> Has anyone got a list of the British Able Baker Charlie Dog.....alphabet?
http://www.scphillips.com/morse/index.html?http://www.scphillips.com/morse/alphabet.html
http://www.bckelk.uklinux.net/phon.full.html
Marty
The version the OP listed is the accepted international version that should
be used by all radio comms, it's just that some people (yanks and other
cultures as well) adopt their own variations for some reason, probably
because their are too damn lazy to remember the correct version - for
example, though in Australia you need to learn and know the above version to
pass you amateur radio exam, once you have the licence apparently you forget
everything you've learnt and start using your own personal interpretation of
the phonetics.......
At the end of the day, as long as the message gets through OK, who cares if
its Alpha or Apple?????
Geoff
news:c648h9$gm4$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au:
> At the end of the day, as long as the message gets through OK, who
> cares if its Alpha or Apple?????
The real point is, that if the correct phoenetics are used, there is a good
chance that somebody who does not speak English, even as a secondary
language, will understand. Using Able, Apple or Archemedies rather than
Alpha will only serve to confuse. That is one of the (few) advantages when
using the Q codes with CW.
YG
Incognito
1954 see URL:
http://www.bckelk.uklinux.net/phon.full.html
The above URL has more Phonetic Alphabets than you ever want to know about.
Currently, In the USA, the FCC sez: -- §97.119 Station identification. (2)
By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a standard phonetic
alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged.
The ARRL sez the recognized standard is the ITU Phonetic Alphabet -- Word
list adopted by the International Telecommunications Union, approved by
NATO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, the FAA, and many
National Amateur Leagues/Societies/Orgs. Adapted about 1955 -- URL:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/forms/fsd220.html#alphabet
However many DXers use a DXing phonetic alphabet based mostly on country
names but includes "radio"-- Unofficial -- see URL:
http://ac6v.com/dxphonetics.htm
--
Incognito By Necessity (:-(
If you can't convince them, confuse them.
- - -Harry S Truman
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c647b2$7mjcb$1...@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...
Marty
news:Xns94D21CC8D1C...@158.152.254.254...
Granted, but I presume that as I only speak english I will most likely not
be speaking to someone that doesn't speak english at all...... and if I do,
it will probably be a rather one sided conversation and phonetics will most
likely be the least of our translation problems!! ;-)
Still, I am always amazed at the amateur operators that go to the trouble of
learning the phonetic alphabet to pass the test, only to toss it all away
afterward and use their own version. Just hearing the different versions on
air can get rather annoying!!!
jakdedert
> "Geoff" <ge...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Xns94D21CC8D1C...@158.152.254.254...
>> "Marty" <NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote in
>> news:c648h9$gm4$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au:
>>
>>> At the end of the day, as long as the message gets through OK, who
>>> cares if its Alpha or Apple?????
>>
>> The real point is, that if the correct phoenetics are used, there is
>> a good chance that somebody who does not speak English, even as a
>> secondary language, will understand. Using Able, Apple or
>> Archemedies rather than Alpha will only serve to confuse. That is
>> one of the (few) advantages when using the Q codes with CW.
>>
>> YG
>
> Granted, but I presume that as I only speak english I will most
> likely not be speaking to someone that doesn't speak english at
> all...... and if I do, it will probably be a rather one sided
> conversation and phonetics will most likely be the least of our
> translation problems!! ;-)
>
english words as the wrong letter. Even though they may 'speak' English,
they still 'think' German, or Russian or whatever. Any student of any
foreign language can tell you that the letters of the alphabet are
pronounced differently than they are in English. For instance, "E" is
pronounced as "ay" in German. Using the standard phonetic alphabet with no
subsitutions ensures that someone using 'alpha' instead of 'able' to a
native German speaker is understood to mean "A" instead of "E".
OT: I once won a game of Trivial Pursuit in German. One of the q's which
put me over the top, translated loosely, was "When would a German use the
words alpha, bravo, charlie, delta etc?" The answer of course was, when
speaking on the radio.
> Still, I am always amazed at the amateur operators that go to the
> trouble of learning the phonetic alphabet to pass the test, only to
> toss it all away afterward and use their own version. Just hearing
> the different versions on air can get rather annoying!!!
Maybe that's why they're called 'amateurs.' ;-)
jak
N Cook
"Marty" <NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:c64f8i$jij$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
I am not a radio amateur but I did learn the phonetic alphabet
because I was forever relaying model numbers etc via phone.
I did at one time regularly listen to GB2RS ,IIRC ,sunday mornings
and every week I would find it annoying ,
or at least dstracting, hearing S- for Sugar etc
Jeff
> > Still, I am always amazed at the amateur operators that go to the
> > trouble of learning the phonetic alphabet to pass the test, only to
> > toss it all away afterward and use their own version. Just hearing
> > the different versions on air can get rather annoying!!!
>
Just remember that a lot of these phonetics that annoy you *were the
standard ones* when the operator got their licence!!!
2 Emma Toc
This doesn't apply to M3's of course (;-)
Jeff
Brian Reay
> Marty wrote:
>
> >Still, I am always amazed at the amateur operators that go to the trouble
of
> >learning the phonetic alphabet to pass the test, only to toss it all away
> >afterward and use their own version. Just hearing the different versions
on
> >air can get rather annoying!!!
>
> alphabet.
>
> Why should I change just because /you/ want all your toys in line?
>
I have to agree with you, I quite like to hear some of the variations in
Phonetic alphabet- they are analogous to the individual 'fist' of the CW
operator. Provided they are not abusive and when required (eg to assist a
foreign amateur) the OP reverts to the ITU standard, I can see no harm.
Jeff
N Co
> I am not a radio amateur but I did learn the phonetic alphabet
> because I was forever relaying model numbers etc via phone.
> I did at one time regularly listen to GB2RS ,IIRC ,sunday mornings
> and every week I would find it annoying ,
> or at least dstracting, hearing S- for Sugar etc
>
But equally if you had learnt and used your phonetics in the
Army the up to the '50s you may well find that Sierra is just
as annoying in place of Sugar!!!
Jeff
Airy R. Bean
would disambiguate those who were either too lazy or too
stupid, or both, to be able to tackle and pass the 12 WPM
Morse Test when it was available to them from _REAL_ Radio Hams?.....
A Didah
B Dahdididit
C Dahdidahdit
D Dahdidit
E Dit
F Dididahdit
G Dahdahdit
H Didididit
I Didit
J Didahdahdah
K Dahdidah
L DiDahdidit
M Dahdah
N Dahdit
O Dahdahdah
P Didahdahdit
Q Dahdahdidah
R Didahdit
S Dididit
T Dah
U Dididah
V Didididah
W Didahdah
X Dahdididah
Y Dahdidahdah
Z Dahdahdidit
"N Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.antyspahm.uk> wrote in message
news:W5qdncV1WYE...@tcp.co.uk...
exray
Lets see a show of hands for those who checked this for mistakes!
I know of one :-)
-Bill WX4A
Marty Wallace
"Airy R. Bean" <ariy....@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c66qi6$8pq6d$1...@ID-217727.news.uni-berlin.de...
The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now except
in "HAM" radio license tests.
What's the point?
Marty
Marty
news:4086f571$0$27646$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
Aint used there in Australia now as well.....
The other Marty...
>
>
N Cook
"Marty" <NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote in message
So in the old film scenario of a sunk ship the rescue divers used to
communicate by knocking on the hull
with a spanner. Also prisoners, in the old films, used to communicate by
banging on the water pipes .
Both activities now not possible I presume
Don McKenzie
> So in the old film scenario of a sunk ship the rescue divers used to
> communicate by knocking on the hull
> with a spanner.
When you hear Dididit Dahdah Dididit emitting from mobile phones all day
long, I would hope most users would know what it means, and even be able
to make a Dididit Dahdahdah Dididit sound with a spanner (or their
mobile phone) on the inside hull of a ship in an emergency.
Coz, when they drop that phone in the drink, and it's a steel ship, they
aren't going to get a very good signal.
> Also prisoners, in the old films, used to communicate by
> banging on the water pipes .
> Both activities now not possible I presume
I would think Morse would be a prerequisite for all long term inmates.
Real actors in films get a 5wpm basic training course.
If they fail that, they get a ham double, thus the word ham when
referenced to actors.
73's Don...
--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics
USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html
Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php
Rod Speed
"N Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.antyspahm.uk> wrote in message news:e-adnVM38IB...@tcp.co.uk...
It never was, hardly anyone could read morse, stupid.
> Also prisoners, in the old films, used to
> communicate by banging on the water pipes .
Just more pig ignorant hollywood bullshit.
> Both activities now not possible I presume
Never was, stupid.
Airy R. Bean
It is the phonetic alphabet that I propose.
Did you, mistakenly, take it to be Alfred Vail's code, perhaps?
"exray" <dontspa...@coqui.net> wrote in message
news:108dscl...@corp.supernews.com...
Airy R. Bean
Code when a text message arrives.
"Marty Wallace" <ma...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:4086f571$0$27646$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
>
GrahamW
> Airy R. Bean wrote:
>
> >becoming aware of Ham Radio
>
> The form of Amateur Radio referred to exists in two places, the USA,
> or between the ears of a resident of Chip 'n' Ham.
If it is between his ears then it is pickled in meths.
Graham
Matthew Haigh
<ariy....@lycos.co.uk> writes
>Your latest GSM phone announces "SMS" in Morse
>Code when a text message arrives.
No, it doesn't. Mine does something more like ESSSS, but only when it is
close enough to a poorly screened audio amplifier for the control
channel signalling to be picked up. The "SMS" or "Connecting People"
notifications only happen with phones made by a certain Finnish
manufacturer.
Matt
--
Matthew Haigh --$matthaigh{News04}$@haigh.org--
GCRSoft, providing SMS solutions since 1996...
http://www.gcrsoft.com http://www.moretext.com
Jock
>The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now except
>in "HAM" radio license tests.
Are you absolutely sure of that?
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
>When you hear Dididit Dahdah Dididit emitting from mobile phones all day
>long,
Where did you learn your Morse? The above is a question
mark, not the SMS you'd hoped for!
>I would hope most users would know what it means, and even be able
>to make a Dididit Dahdahdah Dididit sound with a spanner (or their
>mobile phone) on the inside hull of a ship in an emergency.
That's still not right is it? What's "S"?
--
Jock. Class A+++
Trevor Day
<afto...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
Trev G3ZYY
--
Trevor Day
Don McKenzie
OH, I stand corrected.
Pray tell me what "S" is then Jock. Class A+++
Then tell me what Didit Dahdah Didit is.
I guess all the novice through to marine band Amateur licence holders
that got their tickets in Australia and New Guinea between 1979 amd 1986
better hand them back in, as I wrote the computer generated Morse code
receiving test during this period.
Sorry Guys! C'mon, to be fair, you better send them all back!
Cheers Don...
Airy R. Bean
The second below is, "IMI".
A Question mark is, "Dididahdahdidit".
"Don McKenzie" <lo...@my.sig.com> wrote in message
news:4087DB45...@my.sig.com...
> > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:41:57 +1000, Don McKenzie <lo...@my.sig.com>
wrote:
> >
> > >When you hear Dididit Dahdah Dididit emitting from mobile phones all
day
> > >long,
> > Where did you learn your Morse? The above is a question
> > mark, not the SMS you'd hoped for!
> >
Laurie
> The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now
That may well come as a surprise to the users of aeronautical beacons.
--
Laurie
Geoff
news:rHmJqbE0...@local.gcrsoft.com:
> The "SMS" or "Connecting People"
> notifications only happen with phones made by a certain Finnish
> manufacturer.
That shows that somebody has a sense of humour :-)
YG
Incognito
See URL:
http://www.airnav.com/airports/
And unless you have a very selective receiver -- don't listen to the CW
bands on a weekend as they are LOADED with CW signals.
And then there is 30M -- CW and data only
--
Incognito By Necessity (:-(
If you can't convince them, confuse them.
- - -Harry S Truman
"Laurie" <laur...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:40880a83$0$26191$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
Jock
wrote:
Yes, on re-reading it, it is. Apologies.
(Old age).
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
>Jock wrote:
>
>> Don McKenzie <lo...@my.sig.com> wrote:
>>
>>>When you hear Dididit Dahdah Dididit emitting from mobile phones all day
>>>long,
>>
>>Where did you learn your Morse? The above is a question
>>mark, not the SMS you'd hoped for!
>>
>
>Oh dear......
Oh shit!
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
>Jock wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:41:57 +1000, Don McKenzie <lo...@my.sig.com> wrote:
>>
>> >When you hear Dididit Dahdah Dididit emitting from mobile phones all day
>> >long,
>>
>> Where did you learn your Morse? The above is a question
>> mark, not the SMS you'd hoped for!
>>
>> >I would hope most users would know what it means, and even be able
>> >to make a Dididit Dahdahdah Dididit sound with a spanner (or their
>> >mobile phone) on the inside hull of a ship in an emergency.
>>
>> That's still not right is it? What's "S"?
>OH, I stand corrected.
No need. The fault was mine. :o((
>Pray tell me what "S" is then Jock. Class A+++
Errrr .... dididahdit ?
>Then tell me what Didit Dahdah Didit is.
:o)
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
... and to Russian, Ukranian, Indonesian and some other military
users, along with the Israeli Navy, Italian coast stations and
numerous "numbers" stations.
--
Jock. Class A+++
Dbowey
Errrr .... dididahdit ?
>Then tell me what Didit Dahdah Didit is. >>
S = ...
dididahdit = F (..-.)
Didit Dahdah Didit = If it is space as you show, it is IMI. If it is run
together, it a question: ..--.. = ?
Don
Dbowey
<< >Marty Wallace wrote:
>> The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now
>
>That may well come as a surprise to the users of aeronautical beacons.
... and to Russian, Ukranian, Indonesian and some other military
users, along with the Israeli Navy, Italian coast stations and
numerous "numbers" stations.
>>
-----
Aeronautical VOR's indentify themselves in International Morse Code, also. On
the aeronautical maps the VOR named Imbler will show the name Imbler plus ..
-- -... (IMB). It pays to check the VOR's ID lest you travel on a radial that
does't go where you want to go.
Don
Marty Wallace
"Jock" <afto...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:drif801bg3su087sg...@4ax.com...
Yes I am.
No longer used in any official capacity since Feb 1st 1999.
Marty
Trevor Day
Wallace <ma...@geo.net.au> writes
Morse is still used by the military (Navy), and remains part of the
communications branch syllabus.
And yes, I am also sure
Trev
--
Trevor Day
Marty Wallace
> >except
> >> >in "HAM" radio license tests.
> >>
> >> Are you absolutely sure of that?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Jock. Class A+++
> >
> >Yes I am.
> >No longer used in any official capacity since Feb 1st 1999.
> >
> >Marty
>
> Morse is still used by the military (Navy), and remains part of the
> communications branch syllabus.
>
> And yes, I am also sure
> Trev
> --
> Trevor Day
In what way is it used?
Marty
Airy R. Bean
"Marty Wallace" <ma...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:40890f15$0$27642$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
> > >> >The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now
> > >except
> > >> >in "HAM" radio license tests.
> > >> Are you absolutely sure of that?
> > >Yes I am.
> > >No longer used in any official capacity since Feb 1st 1999.
> > Morse is still used by the military (Navy), and remains part of the
> > communications branch syllabus.
> > And yes, I am also sure
huLLy
news:40890f15$0$27642$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
It's used with aeronautical beacons in some areas
--
AK47 Al -Qaeda C4 Bush Queen London Bomb Gareth Evans G4SDW Plot MI5
Detonator GCHQ Listen Bug Anthrax
Not a member of the Chippen Ham fan club.
Trevor Day
Wallace <ma...@geo.net.au> writes
Generally by flashing light. Ranges to the horizon and very secure.
The ability to intercept third world military comms is also desirable!
Trev
--
Trevor Day
Geoff
news:YRlJhkFa...@secornwall.com:
> Generally by flashing light. Ranges to the horizon and very secure.
> The ability to intercept third world military comms is also
> desirable!
To be fair to Marty, I think light signalling is a little out of context.
In radio useage, NDBs and similar are disappearing so fast as to make you
think that they must cost money to maintain. I played with my RDF a couple
of weeks back, the first time in about five years, I could hear only one
beacon, and that was an aircraft NDB at that.
Of course, racons still identify in morse, at 9.5GHz!
YG
Marty Wallace
"Geoff" <ge...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns94D4BD1921C...@158.152.254.254...
That's pretty much the point I was trying to make.
In the old days if you crashed a plane and cobbled together some sort of
radio and got out a morse signal there was a possibility that an official
organisation might hear you. With emergency beacons that send a signal to an
overhead satelite and mobile phones available to everyone, nobody except
amateur radio people are listening.
Learning morse these days is largely an academic exercise, a bit like
learning Latin. Ok, maybe you'll get to talk to the pope one day but the
reality is that every one has moved on.
Marty
John Miller
> Learning morse these days is largely an academic exercise, a bit like
> learning Latin. Ok, maybe you'll get to talk to the pope one day but the
> reality is that every one has moved on.
That will come as a surpise to the NSA.
--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm
Grinnell's Law of Labor Laxity:
At all times, for any task, you have not got enough done today.
Rod Speed
"Trevor Day" <Tr...@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote in message news:YRlJhkFa...@secornwall.com...
> In message <40890f15$0$27642$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>, Marty
> Wallace <ma...@geo.net.au> writes
> >> >> >The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now
> >> >except
> >> >> >in "HAM" radio license tests.
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you absolutely sure of that?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >> Jock. Class A+++
> >> >
> >> >Yes I am.
> >> >No longer used in any official capacity since Feb 1st 1999.
> >> >
> >> >Marty
> >>
> >> Morse is still used by the military (Navy), and remains part of the
> >> communications branch syllabus.
> >>
> >> And yes, I am also sure
> >> Trev
> >> --
> >> Trevor Day
> >
> >In what way is it used?
> Generally by flashing light. Ranges to the horizon and very secure.
Dunno, surely that should be easy enough to capture from a satellite.
> The ability to intercept third world military comms is also desirable!
I doubt any third world military comms uses that much anymore.
Rod Speed
And NDBs have never required the users to be fluent with morse
anyway. They use morse so slowly that the morse is just printed
on the paperwork that lists the NDB details and anyone with a
clue can use that to make sure the correct NDB is being used.
zpk
wrote:
>
>In what way is it used?
just goes to show you how much you DO know.
Aircraft nav beacons
Aircraft can decode the morse now and display the ident on the screen.
many voice repeaters in the USA use it for ident.
zpk
wrote:
*** Caution: this posting contains a four letter word
that some may find disressing.
>And NDBs have never required the users to be fluent with morse
>anyway.
many C.A.A's requires CPLs to have passed
a SIX ( YES SIX) wpm TEST (yes *TEST*)
> They use morse so slowly that the morse is just printed
>on the paperwork that lists the NDB details and anyone with a
>clue can use that to make sure the correct NDB is being used.
its printed for those PPL who dont know morse code.
BECAUSE SAFETY COMES FIRST
zpk
ahh here!
now youre just being factual.
whats have facts got to do with morse code ?
Jock
>> >> >The really stupid thing is that morse isn't used anywhere at all now
>> >except
>> >> >in "HAM" radio license tests.
>> >>
>> >> Are you absolutely sure of that?
>> >>
>> >Yes I am.
>> >No longer used in any official capacity since Feb 1st 1999.
No longer used in any official capacity by whom?
>> Morse is still used by the military (Navy), and remains part of the
>> communications branch syllabus.
>> And yes, I am also sure
>In what way is it used?
I doubt that the _Royal_ Navy uses it any more, but certainly other
navies do.
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
wrote:
>>In what way is it used?
>>
>>Marty
>
>Generally by flashing light. Ranges to the horizon and very secure.
Possibly.
>The ability to intercept third world military comms is also desirable!
Are you absolutely sure that's done by the navy?
--
Jock. Class A+++
MW0CDO
"huLLy" <hu...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:c6b7p6$a2juq$1...@ID-92818.news.uni-berlin.de...
Most certainly is too.. SWN beacon from Swansea "airport" on Fairwood Common
still sending.
Paul MW0CDO
Jock
Must have been a pretty awful DF setup. There are hundreds of
aeronautical radio navigational beacons right across the world
identifying themselves in Morse.
With a MW loop and a reasonable receiver I can log hundreds.
>Of course, racons still identify in morse, at 9.5GHz!
You jest!
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
Then presumably the pilots will qualify for a class F licence,
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
Nothing whatsoever for those who know it all. Let them count the
number of amateur Morse stations on an active weekend band and compare
it with the number of SSB stations in the same band.
Perhaps they could count all the other modes as well and Morse would
still win.
Of course things have moved on and navies use PRINTER, STANAG-4285 and
LINK-11 and so on on HF, but some of them still use Morse extensively.
It's simple, cheap and enormously spectrum efficient as a standby
system.
--
Jock. Class A+++
Marty Wallace
> Of course things have moved on and navies use PRINTER, STANAG-4285 and
> LINK-11 and so on on HF, but some of them still use Morse extensively.
Which ones still use it extensively?
> It's simple, cheap and enormously spectrum efficient as a standby
> system.
Well I dunno, it might be spectrum efficient but the effort required to
learn it and the fact that only a tiny percentage of the population are
morse literate doesn't make it terribly useful in real terms.
I've learnt morse for my license but have never used it since. I don't know
anybody else at all that uses morse for communicating but I know lot's of
people that use email and mobile phones.
Marty
VK6ABC
>
> --
>
> Jock. Class A+++
John Miller
<http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/6003.htm>
Form your own conclusion.
--
John Miller4
Ex-CTR
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm
Love thy neighbor as thyself, but choose your neighborhood.
-Louise Beal
Rod Speed
zpk <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net>
wrote in message news:408977ca...@news1.eircom.net...
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> *** Caution: this posting contains a four letter word
> that some may find disressing.
Fuck em.
>> And NDBs have never required the
>> users to be fluent with morse anyway.
> many C.A.A's requires CPLs to have passed
> a SIX ( YES SIX) wpm TEST (yes *TEST*)
I dont believe its actually many at all anymore.
And that is completely stupid now anyway.
>> They use morse so slowly that the morse is just printed
>> on the paperwork that lists the NDB details and anyone with a
>> clue can use that to make sure the correct NDB is being used.
> its printed for those PPL who dont know morse code.
Duh. But thats obviously a much more viable approach
than requiring proven morse competance in a test.
> BECAUSE SAFETY COMES FIRST
Clearly the administrations that no longer have
any morse test disagree on the need for that now.
Jock
>Jock wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:30:50 +0100, Trevor Day
>> <Tr...@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The ability to intercept third world military comms is also desirable!
>>
>> Are you absolutely sure that's done by the navy?
>
><http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/6003.htm>
>
>Form your own conclusion.
I don't need to. :o)
--
Jock. Class A+++
Jock
> I've learnt morse for my license but have never used it since. I don't know
>anybody else at all that uses morse for communicating but I know lot's of
>people that use email and mobile phones.
(Lot's?)
Says it all really!
--
Jock. Class A+++
Rod Speed
John Miller <m...@privacy.net> wrote in
message news:c6c1li$aa6$1...@n4vu.com...
> Jock wrote
>> Trevor Day <Tr...@secornwall.removethis.com> wrote
>>> The ability to intercept third world military comms is also desirable!
>> Are you absolutely sure that's done by the navy?
> <http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/6003.htm>
> Form your own conclusion.
Says nothing useful about using morse today.
Geoff
> Marty Wallace wrote:
>
>> Learning morse these days is largely an academic exercise, a bit like
>> learning Latin. Ok, maybe you'll get to talk to the pope one day but the
>> reality is that every one has moved on.
>
> That will come as a surpise to the NSA.
What, do they converse in Latin?
I have heard about the Navaho code-talkers, and that seemed a good idea,
but spooks speaking Latin - they must be ghosts from Roman times.
YG
zpk
>And unless you have a very selective receiver -- don't listen to the CW
>bands on a weekend as they are LOADED with CW signals.
DOH!
tell me where ELSE do you think the CW signals are going to be ?
zpk
wrote:
>> BECAUSE SAFETY COMES FIRST
>
>Clearly the administrations that no longer have
>any morse test disagree on the need for that now.
oh oh.
SAFETY IS NUMERO UNO.
Brian Reay
"zpk" <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net> wrote
in message news:408a236d...@news1.eircom.net...
That is a remarkably simplistic statement. The sort of thing I'd expect a
3nd rate wannabee software engineer who last worked a long time ago on a
something he thought was safety critical.
Safety in any system is a matter of probability- reducing probability of an
incident to an acceptable level. That level is set by a range of factors-
cost and the state of technology being two of them.
Were safety "numero uno" then cost would not be in that equation.
--
73
Brian
G8OSN
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk for FREE training material for all UK
amateur radio licences
www.phoenixradioclub.org.uk - a RADIO club specifically for those wishing
to learn more about amateur radio
zpk
<brian...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Were safety "numero uno" then cost would not be in that equation.
Mr Reay.
I suggest that you go to any Chief Executive of any airline
and ask him/her whereabouts they put safety.
I suggest you go to any C.A.A around the world and ask them
where safety is in the pecking-order of subjects...
Go on.....
Brian Reay
in message news:408a27b6...@news1.eircom.net...
Would you like a list of KNOWN defects in aircraft that impact safety. If
you know were to look you will find it.
Safety is about risk and reducing risk costs money. Often, the lower the
risk the more it costs to ameliorate.
As I said, you view is simplistic in the extreme.
Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI
in message news:408a27b6...@news1.eircom.net...
--
;>)
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
http://turner-smith.co.uk
John Miller
Yikes -- I mangled that good and proper. I had read Marty's "everyone has
moved on" to refer to Morse, not Latin.
--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm
"Quite frankly, I'd rather have a few people hate me deeply than apply
stuff I don't like."
- Linus Torvalds
Incognito
URL: http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/allocate.html
Few do as a matter of courtesy. But it is heard occasionally -- mostly DXers
making a phone contact then switching to CW for confirmation on that mode.
My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham bands is not dead as the a poster
implied.
--
Incognito By Necessity (:-(
If you can't convince them, confuse them.
- - -Harry S Truman
"zpk" <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net> wrote
in message news:408a1ea0...@news1.eircom.net...
zpk
<brian...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> I suggest you go to any C.A.A around the world and ask them
>> where safety is in the pecking-order of subjects...
>
>Would you like a list of KNOWN defects in aircraft that impact safety. If
>you know were to look you will find it.
you still havent asked the UK CAA yet ... have you ?
>As I said, you view is simplistic in the extreme.
remind mr. reay...what is/was your m3 callsign ?
zpk
>
>My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham bands is not dead as the a poster
>implied.
not as dead as some appear to want it to be.
Rod Speed
zpk <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net>
wrote in message news:408a236d...@news1.eircom.net...
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> zpk <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> And NDBs have never required the
>>>> users to be fluent with morse anyway.
>>> many C.A.A's requires CPLs to have passed
>>> a SIX ( YES SIX) wpm TEST (yes *TEST*)
>> I dont believe its actually many at all anymore.
>> And that is completely stupid now anyway.
>>>> They use morse so slowly that the morse is just printed
>>>> on the paperwork that lists the NDB details and anyone with a
>>>> clue can use that to make sure the correct NDB is being used.
>>> its printed for those PPL who dont know morse code.
>> Duh. But thats obviously a much more viable approach
>> than requiring proven morse competance in a test.
>>> BECAUSE SAFETY COMES FIRST
>> Clearly the administrations that no longer have
>> any morse test disagree on the need for that now.
> oh oh.
> SAFETY IS NUMERO UNO.
Not with that specific question of requiring all pilots to be morse fluent it aint.
And that's because there is no reduction in safety involved
with having the NDBs morse ident so slowly that everyone
can check the ident against what's printed on the paperwork.
In fact the better NDB receivers decode it
automatically and display the ident in text form.
Completely trivial technology.
Marty
in message news:408a9d2b...@news1.eircom.net...
Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity, it wont
be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too much
trouble....
Gee, wonder if that means that the ITU don't consider morse to be that
important anymore????
exray
> Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity, it wont
> be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too much
> trouble....
We've been there, done that. Check 26-28 MHz.
-BM
Brian Reay
news:c6eoso$iu3$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> "zpk" <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net>
wrote
> in message news:408a9d2b...@news1.eircom.net...
> > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:32:17 -0700, "Incognito" <B...@sero.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham bands is not dead as the a
> poster
> > >implied.
> >
> > not as dead as some appear to want it to be.
> >
>
> Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity, it
wont
> be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too much
> trouble....
I hope not. I wouldn't like to see CW 'die'.
> Gee, wonder if that means that the ITU don't consider morse to be that
> important anymore????
That doesn't mean people won't want to use it for fun. The Longbow was
rendered obsolete 500+ years back but still has its adherents.
exray
>
> That doesn't mean people won't want to use it for fun. The Longbow was
> rendered obsolete 500+ years back but still has its adherents.
Don't get me wrong because I'm a Morse fan...no mic in my shack.
But they don't require testing for longbow skills when you order meat at
the butcher.
There's been anti-CW people going back to about 1930 when it had already
been declared "obsolete". And there will continue to be complaints when
any moron can obtain a licence (oh, thats already happened). That has
always been true albeit in different degrees. The ham community
screamed bloody foul when the ARRL institued "incentive" licensing. Now
they're screaming foul because there isn't "incentive" licensing.
I'm all in favor of no-code HF licensing as long as they don't hand over
the CW-only bands in the process.
In the US anyway, with the watering down of the requirements I really am
suspect of anybody still whining about having to do a couple of hours of
no-brainer study to obtain an Extra Class licence. On a skill level its
about like knowing how to cook rice.
-BM
Hercules Smackbottom
> Brian Reay wrote:
> In the US anyway, with the watering down of the requirements I really am
> suspect of anybody still whining about having to do a couple of hours of
> no-brainer study to obtain an Extra Class licence. On a skill level its
> about like knowing how to cook rice.
>
Rod Speed
"Brian Reay" <brian...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:c6er4h$bffcb$1...@ID-140397.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Marty" <NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:c6eoso$iu3$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> > "zpk" <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net>
> wrote
> > in message news:408a9d2b...@news1.eircom.net...
> > > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:32:17 -0700, "Incognito" <B...@sero.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham bands is not dead as the a
> > poster
> > > >implied.
> > >
> > > not as dead as some appear to want it to be.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity, it
> wont
> > be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too much
> > trouble....
>
> I hope not. I wouldn't like to see CW 'die'.
>
>
> > Gee, wonder if that means that the ITU don't consider morse to be that
> > important anymore????
> That doesn't mean people won't want to use it for fun. The Longbow
> was rendered obsolete 500+ years back but still has its adherents.
You dont see too many still bothering with smoke
signals, carrier pigeons, pony express, etc etc etc tho.
Does anyone bother with semaphore anymore ? Spose some loons might.
Brian Reay
news:108m46e...@corp.supernews.com...
> > That doesn't mean people won't want to use it for fun. The Longbow was
> > rendered obsolete 500+ years back but still has its adherents.
>
> Don't get me wrong because I'm a Morse fan...no mic in my shack.
> But they don't require testing for longbow skills when you order meat at
> the butcher.
Good point, in line with my own views.
> There's been anti-CW people going back to about 1930 when it had already
> been declared "obsolete".
I'm not sure anti-CW is always the correct term- it suggests people want to
'ban' CW. I don't actually ever recall anyone suggesting that. If they did,
I won't support it.
>And there will continue to be complaints when
> any moron can obtain a licence (oh, thats already happened).
> That has always been true albeit in different degrees.
Been happening here for years- even when we had a written exam and
compulsory CW test for ANY licence. Probably the 'worst' period of behaviour
in the UK hobby was the mid / late 70s- at which time there was still the
written exam.
> The ham community
> screamed bloody foul when the ARRL institued "incentive" licensing. Now
> they're screaming foul because there isn't "incentive" licensing.
Odd, we have the same.
> I'm all in favor of no-code HF licensing as long as they don't hand over
> the CW-only bands in the process.
Agreed 100%
> In the US anyway, with the watering down of the requirements I really am
> suspect of anybody still whining about having to do a couple of hours of
> no-brainer study to obtain an Extra Class licence. On a skill level its
> about like knowing how to cook rice.
I've not heard anyone 'whining' about wanting to get the UK equivalent,
having gone through the other stages. Quite the converse.
I've got a batch of amateurs taking the UK Advanced exam on Monday- we are
already looking for things to study next. Morse is on the list of
possibles. (even though it isn't required any more here), as is taking the
US exams.
Geoff
news:c6eoso$iu3$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au:
> "zpk" <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net>
> wrote in message news:408a9d2b...@news1.eircom.net...
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:32:17 -0700, "Incognito" <B...@sero.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham bands is not dead as the
>> >a
> poster
>> >implied.
>>
>> not as dead as some appear to want it to be.
>>
>
> Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity,
> it wont be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too
> much trouble....
No, I think that there is a use for morse code and some amateurs will
still use it, as I do. It still has use as a simple weak signal mode.
> Gee, wonder if that means that the ITU don't consider morse to be that
> important anymore????
Probably not.
YG
Brian Reay
news:plqm801r0b91klvva...@4ax.com...
> >Does anyone bother with semaphore anymore ? Spose some loons might.
> >
>
>
> When your assault group or raiding party is dropped off at night from
> its parent group (operating in total electronic blackout) just outside
> the enemy littoral, how do you think they all communicate?
>
> I'll be willing to bet that smoke signals. hand signals, carrier
> pigeons, and a whole raft of non-electronic communications aids are
> used, including morse lamps and semaphore.
>
> Signallers are prized members of such specialist groups.
All seems a bit extreme to get into a rally before the doors open. Why not
just stand in front of a Landrover and break a leg?
Brian Reay
> >All seems a bit extreme to get into a rally before the doors open. Why
not
> >just stand in front of a Landrover and break a leg?
>
> I thought that bit came later, after the fried breakfast then being
> run over by the wheelchairs? I'm not sure where the fettled casting
> comes in all this action......
>
Well, some people always have to be different, re-defining physical
definitions (eg definition of power, time, the dB etc), maybe they decided
to do this differently.
Stick a good casting on a good leg, then "fettle" both. Think of the
benefits, broken leg (gets you into the rallies and an excuse not to work),
a ruined casting to throw in the bin, and something to moan about. "Win Win"
;-)
Beloved Leader
> Does anyone bother with semaphore anymore ? Spose some loons might.
Lifeguards.
zpk
<NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote:
>Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no longer a necessity, it wont
>be long before the new generation of hams decide its all too much
>trouble....
THANK YOU SOOO MUCH.
another of predictions proven.
rsgb pse note.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Brian Reay <brian...@bigfoot.com> wrote
>>> Marty <NOSPAM...@yahoo.com.au_NOSPAM> wrote
>>>> zpk <bo_pkear...@multi-band-cb-is-here-10-4.eircom.ru.br.net> wrote
>>>>> Incognito <B...@sero.net> wrote
>>>>>> My post was to indicate that CW on the Ham
>>>>>> bands is not dead as the a poster implied.
>>>>> not as dead as some appear to want it to be.
>>>> Maybe not, but with the ITU saying that CW is no
>>>> longer a necessity, it wont be long before the new
>>>> generation of hams decide its all too much trouble....
>>> I hope not. I wouldn't like to see CW 'die'.
>>>> Gee, wonder if that means that the ITU don't
>>>> consider morse to be that important anymore????
>>> That doesn't mean people won't want to use it
>>> for fun. The Longbow was rendered obsolete
>>> 500+ years back but still has its adherents.
>> You dont see too many still bothering with smoke
>> signals, carrier pigeons, pony express, etc etc etc tho.
>> Does anyone bother with semaphore
>> anymore ? Spose some loons might.
> I think your thinking is too narrow.
Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of rational thought.
> When your assault group or raiding party is dropped off at night
> from its parent group (operating in total electronic blackout) just
> outside the enemy littoral, how do you think they all communicate?
They dont use semaphore.
> I'll be willing to bet that smoke signals. hand
> signals, carrier pigeons, and a whole raft of
> non-electronic communications aids are used,
More fool you. Only hand singles are.
And that's got absolutely NOTHING to do with what was
commented on there, THE USE OF THOSE FOR FUN.
> including morse lamps and semaphore.
Bullshit.
> Signallers are prized members of such specialist groups.
Got absolutely NOTHING to do with what was commented
on there, THE USE OF THOSE FOR FUN.
Rod Speed
Beloved Leader <Kim_J...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message news:26a0f230.0404...@posting.google.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Does anyone bother with semaphore
>> anymore ? Spose some loons might.
> Lifeguards.
Bullshit. That aint semaphore.
Lifeguards use hand signals, a different thing entirely.
Melvyn T Phillips
MORSE...let them use it.
I don't use Morse, but it doesn't bother me if others do.
Mel.
Ken Taylor
>
> Binary Era <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:plqm801r0b91klvva...@4ax.com...
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> anymore ? Spose some loons might.
>
> > I think your thinking is too narrow.
>
> Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of rational thought.
>
> > When your assault group or raiding party is dropped off at night
> > from its parent group (operating in total electronic blackout) just
> > outside the enemy littoral, how do you think they all communicate?
>
> They dont use semaphore.
>
> > I'll be willing to bet that smoke signals. hand
> > signals, carrier pigeons, and a whole raft of
> > non-electronic communications aids are used,
>
> More fool you. Only hand singles are.
(Not married ones, Rod? :-)
>
*At night*? Do you guys light yourselves up first so your party (and the
enemy) can see you do the hokey-pokey, smoke a bong and release the hounds -
I mean, carrier pigeons - first?
This is a mildly amusing thread, but this sub-thread is well into the
ridiculous.
Ken
Hercules Smackbottom
> I wish you would all learn to LIVE AND LET LIVE...if people wish to use
> MORSE...let them use it.
Note that many hundreds of thousands of people still carry morse code receivers in their pockets.
When a SMS message arrives, their mobile phone beeps "... -- ..." (SMS).
The Real Andy
>Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>
>>You dont see too many still bothering with smoke
>>signals, carrier pigeons, pony express, etc etc etc tho.
>>
>>Does anyone bother with semaphore anymore ? Spose some loons might.
>>
>
>I think your thinking is too narrow.
I think your thinking is non-existant.
>
>When your assault group or raiding party is dropped off at night from
>its parent group (operating in total electronic blackout) just outside
>the enemy littoral, how do you think they all communicate?
Every heard of battery powered radio's?
>
>I'll be willing to bet that smoke signals. hand signals, carrier
>pigeons, and a whole raft of non-electronic communications aids are
>used, including morse lamps and semaphore.
I'll be willing to bet they don't.
>
>Signallers are prized members of such specialist groups.
Not these days.