Radio Shack Electronic Kits
Too_Many_Tools
electronic kits that Radio Shack has had over the years. The versions
that spanned the 50, 100, 200 electronic experiments all come to mind.
My question is...how many versions and types of these kits have they
had over the years?
I would be interested in hearing which ones you recall.
Thanks
TMT
Michael Ware
controls, displays, meter and speaker on the front of it.
I still have a 150 that I have had for 25 years.
The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good source for
hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137287851.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joerg
> The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good source for
> hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
>
But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
Places like Radio Shack as we knew it from the old days can only survive
when people built stuff.
The Radio Shack here in town has closed. It become a cell phone store. Sigh.
Regards, Joerg
Ken Weitzel
Hi...
Wow, memories again! :)
Bought one for my daughter about 25 years ago. Though she's been
grown and gone for a good while, it's still intact and sitting on
the top shelf of her closet (her closet here). Just looked at
it - it's a 150 in 1. Radio shack part number is 28-248.
Anyone's interested I'd be happy to scan some or all of the experiment
pages and make them available.
And about 5 years ago bought one (used) off ebay for the young
fellow a couple of doors over birthday. I think he's still
enjoying it. One of his favorites was a rain detector project.
Figured out that if he wanted to know if it was raining, all he had to
do was put it together, carry it outside, hold it up for a while,
and bingo! Knew whether it was raining or not :)
Just for curiousity looked on ebay, searched electronic kit,
and the first thing that came up was one :)
Take care.
Ken
CLFE
news:Zmiyf.344040$ki.218198@pd7tw2no...
I'm not going to try to address any or all of the issues as to market needs,
pay scales, bla bla blah - but I will say - I suppose these kids today -
think those video games and so on - appear out of no where. Yes, maybe they
can program something on a computer to do that - but they should try
tackling the "component" level stuff. Actually learn what it takes to do all
that. There are probably a host of reasons we could bring up as to "why"
they don't - but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Even
miniaturization goes so far...... if the demand for the larger parts such as
we're used to working with would increase - maybe the action would pick back
up.
As to the kits and Radio Shack, I learned from their books. My father bought
me like a 50 in 1 kit from Lafayette Radio - I think! Back then, Radio Shack
hadn't gotten in our area yet. BUT then when they did, I bought every book
they had. I've had technical training since then and went beyond that. I
build items from junk parts just to have something to do when not repairing.
It is a very enjoyable hobby. I went to a Hamfest this past summer and
someone gave me a 150 in 1 kit with a book. I have other items here which
have power strips and so on - but you have to supply the parts yourself. But
still - makes for a lot of designing fun.
CLF
Michael Ware
the late 70's-early 80's. You would think kids would at least have some
curiosity about how the game controllers work, or how to build a power
supply to run their GameBoy to save the batteries. Of course, you can buy a
power supply for a fraction of what it costs to build one from scratch.
"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:0liyf.6851$or4....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
> But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
> front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com
JR North
novice user how the components acted together to make the circuit
function. Instructions to insert the + lead of C4 into hole 4-12 did
nothing to educate the user about electronics. Once the novelty and
interest in the buzzer and LEDs flashing waned, the user departed, non
the wiser and no more knowledgeable about electronics than when they
started.
JR
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
CLFE
"JR North" <jason...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:E-idnSdRVfaJV1Te...@seanet.com...
> The really sad thing about the RS kits is they failed to explain to the
> novice user how the components acted together to make the circuit
> function. Instructions to insert the + lead of C4 into hole 4-12 did
> nothing to educate the user about electronics. Once the novelty and
> interest in the buzzer and LEDs flashing waned, the user departed, non the
> wiser and no more knowledgeable about electronics than when they started.
> JR
>
Good point! Maybe they thought that the kit builder would "become"
interested in why - and reach further......... Who knows.......?
CLF
- exray -
>
> Good point! Maybe they thought that the kit builder would "become"
> interested in why - and reach further......... Who knows.......?
>
> CLF
>
>
Hi Lou, long time no see.
I don't think they "thought" anything. Just filling a niche marketing
wise. Lots of kids have an interest in something new - not necessarily
something specific - and the only way for a parent to capitalise on what
might be a budding ambition would be exposure to something like this kit
rather than just disassembling the family's clock radio.
Anybody who has raised a kid who wanted to be a "musician" in the school
band at about 7th-8th Grade knows what I'm talking about :)
Hehe...I remember my "chemistry set". It actually had instructions
about how to make a stink bomb. That didn't turn me towards being a
chemist but the exposure to all that stuff at least gave me some
cognizance of what it was all about at an age when I knew absolutely zip
about chemicals. Not that that has changed any in the past 40 years !
-Bill
CLFE
news:11sjmae...@corp.supernews.com...
Yeah Bill, long time no see - "trying" to stay out of trouble! :) Anyway,
you are probably correct. I was "trying" to give them the benefit of doubt.
Chemistry sets - eh? Man, my bedroom was a mini lab. If I had now - what I
had then - they'd arrest me on suspicion of a Meth Lab or something. Man, I
had a telescope, microscope, geology set, chemistry set, jars of
formaldehyde (sp?) with specimens in it, and so on. Not to mention the
electronics crap I had a ton of. I barely had room for my clothes, bed and
other eh - more important stuff. Ya know - looking back - I miss all
that........ That was FUN...... Half the so called Chemistry sets and so on
now - don't have half the goodies the sets did back then. These new sets are
garbage compared to what we used to get. Same with the new project kits.
JUNK....... Knowing what we had, maybe there is a reason these kids would
be bored. Somewhere, I think I have a couple pictures of my Lab - er - I
mean Bedroom.
CLF
- exray -
> now - don't have half the goodies the sets did back then. These new sets are
> garbage compared to what we used to get. Same with the new project kits.
> JUNK....... Knowing what we had, maybe there is a reason these kids would
> be bored. Somewhere, I think I have a couple pictures of my Lab - er - I
> mean Bedroom.
>
> CLF
yabbut...remember how cool it was to imagine a little thing that
actually worked that you could stick in your pocket and if you punched
in about 10 switches you could talk to ANYBODY IN THE WORLD?...and have
them deliver a pizza?
Hey, how do you keep 'em on the farm once they've see the city?
I imagine back in the 50s-60s the old farts were grumbling like we are
now about having those spoon-fed kits for those (us) unimaginative kids.
It all works out in the long run. There's 14-year-old kids with rooms
stacked full of old curbside PCs and video cams that would scoff
(technologically speaking) at us old guys who were limited to stink
bombs and dead salamanders in jars.
They'll be ok...at least some of them will...and thats the way it has
always been.
-ex
>
>
Ron(UK)
> The really sad thing about the RS kits is they failed to explain to the
> novice user how the components acted together to make the circuit
> function. Instructions to insert the + lead of C4 into hole 4-12 did
> nothing to educate the user about electronics. Once the novelty and
> interest in the buzzer and LEDs flashing waned, the user departed, non
> the wiser and no more knowledgeable about electronics than when they
> started.
> JR
>
>
Workshop I think it was called. It had three germanium transistors a
diode and a photcell. I remember the manual was very explanetary, with
the devices operation being described by a transistor shaped cartoon
character.
Ron(UK)
--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com
Leonard Caillouet
in the wind. Kids are different these days in the way that they entertain
themselves and the ways that they interact, but just like 50 years ago,
there are those who are creative and those who are not. True that many more
are spoiled brats, but to say that kids are not creative these days is no
different than our parents saying that R&R was not music.
You need to get to know some different kids.
Leonard
"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:0liyf.6851$or4....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
mc
"Leonard Caillouet" <n...@no.com> wrote in message
news:5Sryf.1102$bF.874@dukeread07...
>I think that the idea that kids are not creative these days is just wanking
>in the wind. Kids are different these days in the way that they entertain
>themselves and the ways that they interact, but just like 50 years ago,
>there are those who are creative and those who are not. True that many
>more are spoiled brats, but to say that kids are not creative these days is
>no different than our parents saying that R&R was not music.
Hear, hear! Look at the number of youngsters who are into web site design,
for instance.
Mark Fergerson
> CLFE wrote:
>> now - don't have half the goodies the sets did back then. These new
>> sets are garbage compared to what we used to get. Same with the new
>> project kits. JUNK....... Knowing what we had, maybe there is a
>> reason these kids would be bored. Somewhere, I think I have a couple
>> pictures of my Lab - er - I mean Bedroom.
Pardon me for barging in- another Old Fart who had a lab/bedroom like
that.
> yabbut...remember how cool it was to imagine a little thing that
> actually worked that you could stick in your pocket and if you punched
> in about 10 switches you could talk to ANYBODY IN THE WORLD?...and have
> them deliver a pizza?
>
> Hey, how do you keep 'em on the farm once they've see the city?
The "imagination barrier" blurs when TV shows like the old Star Trek
"predict" Motorola flip-phones.
> I imagine back in the 50s-60s the old farts were grumbling like we are
> now about having those spoon-fed kits for those (us) unimaginative kids.
I had it both ways- I was given everything from Erector sets through
chem to electronic sets, AND had an Elmer down the street who showed me
how to make working stuff out of "junk".
OTOH my mother just couldn't understand why I thought it necessary to
disassemble my "perfectly good" microscope...
> It all works out in the long run. There's 14-year-old kids with rooms
> stacked full of old curbside PCs and video cams that would scoff
> (technologically speaking) at us old guys who were limited to stink
> bombs and dead salamanders in jars.
>
> They'll be ok...at least some of them will...and thats the way it has
> always been.
Yep. The true hope for the future is the kid who can't help taking
things apart to find out how they work...
Mark L. Fergerson
Ron(UK)
> The "imagination barrier" blurs when TV shows like the old Star Trek
> "predict" Motorola flip-phones.
Could it not be said that the design of the flip phone was influenced by
StarTrek? As back in the 60`s that`s what we imagined personal
communicators would look like. why not make them like that anyway.
Ron(UK)
meow...@care2.com
What I remember most about them is the wide variety of different types
of kit, and the garbage quality of the circuits in the books. ISTR the
components strung between springs type were popular and cheap, I also
saw one with square plastic cubes that each contained a part, and they
all slotted in next to each other to make circuits. And the Philips
ones that were a PCB with components mounted on bolts which screwed to
the pcb.
Best thing to do with the spring ones was to rip out the parts, then
you got twice as many connection points to use, just string parts
between the springs instead of wires. Add some more springs, which is
easy enough, and you could start building more serious projects with
them, eg radios that worked properly, burger alarms, etc.
NT
John Fields
...
>Add some more springs, which is
>easy enough, and you could start building more serious projects with
>them, eg radios that worked properly, burger alarms, etc.
---
Yes, I remember building one and driving by Burger King with it in
my car. It went off about 100 yards away from BK...
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
Fred Bloggs
Those kits were for sissies. Real children start out immediately playing
with the mains wiring and electric train sets, lighting, motors
etc...the school of hard knocks and shocks.
Ron(UK)
Absolutely, who remembers the schoolboys 'bible of electrickery' The
Boy Electrician?
Ron(UK)
Jim Thompson
wrote:
Absolutely! Learning does not occur unless there's a failure that you
must analyse and understand. Flame makes it sink in even more ;-)
I estimate that I have torn up at least 20X as many sheets of paper as
I have kept.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Anyone can be rude, but it takes a Democrat to be a real dirtbag.
Mark Fergerson
They were good for getting down to the fiddly bits (for those of us
who survived the mains wiring etc with breath and fingers intact).
Besides, I believe I recounted some of my "teleportation experiences"
with mains voltage in my youth. That sort of thing can be misconstrued
as a religious experience, but I was lucky, I guess...
Mark L. Fergerson
Fred Bloggs
If a child walks into school with a 2nd - 3rd degree electrical burn
these days, it is probable the police will soon be around to arrest the
parents:-)
Richard Henry
"Fred Bloggs" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:43CA73CB...@nospam.com...
When I got my electric train set, I quickly found that the spring from a
ball-point pen would glow red hot when placed across the track wire
terminals of the control box.
Richard Henry
Ifa child has a 3rd degree elctrical burn, he should be walking into a
hospital.
Fred Bloggs
Hahah- that's when I learned you do not strip the wires with your teeth
when they're plugged into the transformer...
John Fields
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:09:50 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nos...@nospam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> I like many of you had my first experience with electronics through the
>>> electronic kits that Radio Shack has had over the years. The versions
>>> that spanned the 50, 100, 200 electronic experiments all come to mind.
>>>
>>> My question is...how many versions and types of these kits have they
>>> had over the years?
>>>
>>> I would be interested in hearing which ones you recall.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Those kits were for sissies. Real children start out immediately playing
>>with the mains wiring and electric train sets, lighting, motors
>>etc...the school of hard knocks and shocks.
>
>Absolutely! Learning does not occur unless there's a failure that you
>must analyse and understand. Flame makes it sink in even more ;-)
>
>I estimate that I have torn up at least 20X as many sheets of paper as
>I have kept.
---
Slow learner, huh?
Ben Bradley
specifically:
sci.electronics.design,
rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,
sci.electronics.equipment,
sci.electronics.repair and
comp.robotics.misc;
On 14 Jan 2006 17:17:31 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I like many of you had my first experience with electronics through the
>electronic kits that Radio Shack has had over the years. The versions
>that spanned the 50, 100, 200 electronic experiments all come to mind.
>
>My question is...how many versions and types of these kits have they
>had over the years?
>
>I would be interested in hearing which ones you recall.
I only recall that Radio Shack had them, probably over many
decades. I never owned one.
But I don't feel particularly deprived - when I was about five to
six years old I got a Heathkit version of these "N-in-1" kits. I have
no clue of the model number, but I think it had:
one transistor,
one diode,
one variable coil (magnetic material on the end of a small threaded
rod that went into the coil, you turn the end of the rod to 'tune' it
- common then, I don't see them nowadays)
several capacitors and resistors
small crystal earphone
I recall that it used small compression springs to accept the
wires, and Fahnestock clips to connect to things off-board: earphone,
antenna and ground. Or perhaps it used only springs, but Fahnestock
clips were common connectors for these projects.
There were two radio projects, one with the diode, and one with the
transistor. The one with the transistor was of course much more
sensitive and played louder through the earphone.
I later recall having another brand, a 'more advanced' model on an
actual printed circuit board (there were traces between each
component's leads and the clips or springs on the board), perhaps it
was a Knight-Kit. It had a relay, a silicon photocell, probably two
transistors, and the usual passive components.
>
>Thanks
>
>TMT
catman
using the solar cells was cool.
While the instructions did not go into to too much detail on the why,
they did cover it at least a little. With the easy spring connections,
I would often switch things around to see what would happen. The
results were the most obvious with the sound experiments.
The important thing with the kits was that you at least learned what
different parts were called. Twenty five years later when my wife
wanted to build a Sinclar ZX81 we bought surplus, I got her a 150 in 1
kit first just so she could learn what the pieces were before she
started on building the computer since she knew nothing about
electronics when she started. The kits gave you confidence that you
could do this, even if you didn't completely understand what it was
that you were doing.
Paul Pawelski
clifto
> On 15 Jan 2006 07:12:17 -0800, meow...@care2.com wrote:
>>Add some more springs, which is
>>easy enough, and you could start building more serious projects with
>>them, eg radios that worked properly, burger alarms, etc.
>
> my car. It went off about 100 yards away from BK...
You should have adjusted the circuit to detect only burgers above 80
degrees F.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
CLFE
"Richard Henry" <rph...@home.com> wrote in message
news:42vd26F...@individual.net...
Yes they should be, but you seem to have missed the point! With the laws
today - the parents would be arrested immediately - in most cases for Child
Abuse - and questions asked later. The answer of trying to teach them
electronics probably wouldn't be a good answer now days. Many of those who
made and uphold the laws either didn't grow up like we did - or - lead a
very sheltered life and took very few chances.
It certainly wasn't my parents fault, I was a very inquisitive child. Hell,
I stuck my fingers in empty light sockets and hit the switch and did many
other stupd stunts - more than I can keep count of. But, I LEARNED. Back in
those good ole days - Child Abuse may have been around, but parents weren't
busted just for looking at their child - in a cross manner. THAT was living.
Today - you have to watch anything and everything. I'm glad my kids are
grown, now I don't have that worry.
Michael Ware
"catman" <pawelsk...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1137359068.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>////
> Twenty five years later when my wife
> wanted to build a Sinclar ZX81 we bought surplus, >
> Paul Pawelski
John Miles
The-Enve...@My-Web-Site.com says...
> Learning does not occur unless there's a failure that you
> must analyse and understand.
Nice. Original?
-- jm
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------
John Fields
<jmi...@pop.removethistomailme.net> wrote:
>In article <e7tks1l5fnf6goidj...@4ax.com>, To-Email-Use-
>The-Enve...@My-Web-Site.com says...
>
>> Learning does not occur unless there's a failure that you
>> must analyse and understand.
>
>Nice.
---
With all due respect and being as polite as I can be, I disagree.
As far as I can see, Jim Thompson's outlook on life seems to me to
be that of a (according to him) polio victim who somehow managed to
mollify that disability (to which all of us who refused to succumb
to that illness should kow-tow) and then went on to achieve
semi-greatness by learning how to transfer circuits onto silicon.
Not a big deal.
Got a circuit which needs to be reproduced a zillion times?
Also not a big deal, no matter what you've been told.
Learning occurs on many levels, not the least of which is the
information which we're given when we're ignorant and _can't_
analyze the data given us.
I learned the names for red and green when I was very young, and I
still see them the same way and call them the names I learned back
then.
Ken G.
a few single kits .
I just saw these in Radio Shack last month and thought i saw a 250 in 1
kit with digital stuff on it updated plastic box etc. .
Our radio shack has less that 1/4 of its store cell phones .
Joerg
> That's true, I guess the electronics hobby just isn't as big as it was in
> the late 70's-early 80's. You would think kids would at least have some
> curiosity about how the game controllers work, or how to build a power
> supply to run their GameBoy to save the batteries. Of course, you can buy a
> power supply for a fraction of what it costs to build one from scratch.
>
I believe most come with a wall wart type supply. After all, they pay
$300 or more for those gizmos. But that's just the problem, kids have
way too much money. We had to make do with whatever parts a discarded
radio or TV set yielded. And that was plenty. I remember jumping up and
down in joy as a kid when I found a 13.56MHz crystal in a TV. That
discovery propelled me into the ISM business.
Regards, Joerg
Jonathan Kirwan
I built one and still have it in a box, somewhere. Interesting unit,
at the time.
Jon
Too_Many_Tools
specifically:
sci.electronics.design,
rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,
sci.electronics.equipment,
sci.electronics.repair and
comp.robotics.misc; "
Is there a problem with posting a suitable topic to a number of groups
that would find it interesting?
It definitely was not meant to be spam.
TMT
Rob B
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137380057.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
did someone complain ?
cross posting is for relevant groups, those appear to be relevant excepting
(repair) and i might have added (sci.electronics.basics) or (misc) but i am
just a humble hobbier :)
Rob B
> I like many of you had my first experience with electronics through the
> electronic kits that Radio Shack has had over the years. The versions
> that spanned the 50, 100, 200 electronic experiments all come to mind.
>
> My question is...how many versions and types of these kits have they
> had over the years?
>
> I would be interested in hearing which ones you recall.
I recall my first electronics kit consisted of a single hair pin (U shaped
hair pin)
i promptly applied it to the nearest power source i could find (which
happened to be a 120v outlet) nothing happened at first so i proceeded with
my experimentation of wiggling the hair pin so as to make contact, i
remember the lights flickering and then i recall a loud scream imminated
from my general locale and the rest blurs
my second electronic kit was radio shack am radio with ear plug phone it
scratched out some noise and occasional radio signal
my third project was a shock box (pop-mech kit ?) where i dug up some old
transformer from my dads shop that resembled the one in the design (same
shape & number of wires) and i applied either 6v lantern battery or couple
of D cells to the indicated wires then self-tested the output... i have no
idea what i put together but my arm ached and felt like jello for a short
while after the test.
4th came the 100 or 125 kit from RS where you had to build some of the
elments/switches/ variable capacitor ? ( eg. bunch of thin brass(copper)
sheets and some thin plastic wafered together with an adjustment knob? ) i
remeber lights, buzzers (elec keyboard ), meter ?,
I enjoyed it then but electronics interest faded quickly once the TRS-80,
TI-99-4a, timex sinclair, ataris and commodores etc became available for
play plus the video games of 70-80
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Hahah- that's when I learned you do not strip the wires with your teeth
> when they're plugged into the transformer...
This explains a lot about you, Fred! ;-)
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
CLFE
Some funny, some not so funny - at least not then - but boy is it nice to
sit back and laugh at ourselves now...... But hey - we made it - and learned
a lot along the way. IF we all admitted to all the things we did then, many
would wonder how we either survived or weren't put in a looney bin.
CLF
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:43CBBF60...@earthlink.net...
Josh Wyatt
> I'm sure we've all had our turn at learning things the "hard" way back then.
> Some funny, some not so funny - at least not then - but boy is it nice to
> sit back and laugh at ourselves now...... But hey - we made it - and learned
> a lot along the way. IF we all admitted to all the things we did then, many
> would wonder how we either survived or weren't put in a looney bin.
>
> CLF
True story:
At the ripe age of 11, I received my first Digi-Key catalog (Dad was into electronics...). At the time I was big into neon lights (sad I know), and had collected lots of the little bulbs from Radio Shack, salvaged equipment, etc.
Digi-Key had bare bulbs for 11 cents each! And strangely, they were listed as requiring 120v (without a resistor specification, and not pre-attached resistors, assembly, etc). I had to have a couple, as surely these were exotic and unusual bulbs.
So I taped two dimes and two pennies to an index card, filled out the order form, and mailed the whole thing to Digi-Key, along with a personal note about how much I loved neon lights (yes, still sad).
Couple weeks later I got back a stern typewritten note about minimum orders, effort of fulfilling tiny requests, shipping charges, yadda, yadda... and enclosed in the envelope with this letter were two neon lights wrapped in bubble wrap!
I could not wait to test my new neon lights that didn't require a current limiting resistor. Still, something seemed ominous about that, so I enclosed the first one in a glass jar, "just in case". Applied 120V and POW, tiny neon bomb!
I sent the broken glass and freed electrodes, carefully padded and wrapped, back to Digi-Key with a nastygram of my own, stating what had happened and how these were NOT 120V neon bulbs despite the catalog specification. Couple of weeks later I received a reply in the mail, with an apology, a statement of catalog revision, and... a replacement neon bulb ;) .
Ah, Digi-Key, thou dost know customer service.
Thanks,
Josh
P.S. Hope this wasn't too off-topic.
Rob B
"Josh Wyatt" <tri...@wirefall.org> wrote in message
news:1sYyf.2177$Ea3....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
it is stories like these that always make me wonder how lots of kids like
that survived child hood
had a similar experiment story (similar age) mixing Acetylene and Oxygen
from the torch into a small 16oz glass bottle then putting a match near
opening to see what kind of flame would be produced :)
for some unknown reason (alludes me to this day) i decided to put it inside
of a 5 gallon paint bucket and that was the better part of the idea
robb
mc
> Ah, Digi-Key, thou dost know customer service.
They knew you might grow up to be an engineer and design something that uses
millions of dollars' worth of their parts.
RCA and Kodak were very generous to me with documentation and answers to
questions when I was young. Sadly, RCA died before I could do anything to
repay them. Kodak is still there and has benefited, I think, from some
writing I did in the 1980s.
Cliff Sojourner
> Hello Michael,
>
>
>> The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good
>> source for
>> hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
>>
>
> But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
> front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
> Places like Radio Shack as we knew it from the old days can only survive
> when people built stuff.
same could be said of most hams!! I bought an HT recently and I was
astounded to learn HRO did NOT stock SMA connectors (needed for the HT),
or RG174.
Hams pay $30 to $60 for coax with BNCs at each end. Hams pay $30 for
12VDC 200mA wall warts! Hams pay $15 to $30 for serial cables.
do hams actually BUILD anything these days?
> The Radio Shack here in town has closed. It become a cell phone store.
> Sigh.
yeah.
CLFE
"Cliff Sojourner" <cls-N...@employees.org> wrote in message
news:43CC899...@employees.org...
I do, if I find something worth the effort. It is fun....... I don't mind
building, including making my own PCs, but it has to be something which I
can use - not just throw in a drawer once done - never to see daylight -
again. I've built some pieces of test equipment which saved me a lot of
aggrivation and time - once completed. Heck, I wish I could do a project a
week - just to do it.
CLF
Joel Kolstad
"Cliff Sojourner" <cls-N...@employees.org> wrote in message
news:43CC899...@employees.org...
> Hams pay $30 to $60 for coax with BNCs at each end. Hams pay $30 for
> 12VDC 200mA wall warts! Hams pay $15 to $30 for serial cables.
So what? Although I understand your point here -- you'd like people to
build their own equipment and learn a few skills -- I would sure hope that
anyone who's been messing around with electronics since a kid has terminated
hundreds or thousands of cables, built plenty of cheesy wall-wart-like power
supplies, and wired plenty of their own cables. If they're smart, they've
advanced their skills well beyond the point and now have good paying jobs
and buying those pre-manufactured items is arguably a much better use of
their time than making them.
It just doesn't make sense to build your own power supplies when you can buy
something like a 5V, 1A switcher with 100-240V input for <$10... time is the
ultimate commodity than you can never create more of!
> do hams actually BUILD anything these days?
Sure... look at something like GNU Radio, the Elecraft kits, the TAPR VNA
kit, etc.
Being able to build something from a schematic prepares you for a job that
pays little better than flipping burgers.
This is very much like mowing your lawn -- if you can afford to pay soomeone
else to do it, there's little point in doing it yourself unless you truly
enjoy and experience and understand the "opportunity cost" (the time you
won't be able to spend doing other things you might enjoy more) involved.
ehsjr
Yabut - another ham and I were discussing the design of a
phase discriminator. Mention Foster-Seely to any of the
other hams listening and they thought it was a mattress.
One of them didn't know how to solder a resistor to a
PC board ... afaik the others didn't even try. Let me
put it this way - some hams' time would be better spent
opening a book or melting solder than buying a wall wart.
Ed
CLFE
news:LZbzf.1372$pq5.1323@trndny02...
Maybe the economy and so on - isn't what it once was - BUT - those who knock
"knowing" electronics would be up a creek - were it not for those of us who
DO. Those gadgets don't make themselves.
You're right about the Foster Seeley..... Hell, I've seen "hams" - using the
term lightly as we're not all on the same platform - not even know what a
"fuse" was!
OR a ground! Eh....... seems to me they should have failed. But - that is my
beef with the newer tests. You get all the answers given to you in a book.
Years ago, you really didn't know what to expect when you went in front of
the FCC. If you didn't know electronics, you were just wasting your time.
My - how times have changed.
CLF
CLFE
news:uoczf.17873$V9....@fe07.usenetserver.com...
>I have to wonder what is the point of being a ham in the day and age
> of the internet.
>
> i
>
I'm not so sure being a "ham" was the point. However, that is how many of
the current technicians/engineers (myself included) cut their teeth. IF it
weren't for people getting involved in electronics, those who can't seem to
understand the desire - would have no computers, no TV, no Stereo, no
anything. SOMEONE had to "design" these items and test them for them to be
able to be marketed. You just don't do that without "knowledge". Parts can
be soldered on by machine if need be - BUT - they had to be designed and
tested to get there. These kids wouldn't have their Gameboys, cell phones
and so on - if "someone" didn't take the initiative to design and create.
Maybe the phones are made in China, so be it - who do you think installs the
cell sites? Not chinese. SOMEONE has to know what to do. THERE IS - need for
people to become interested in electronics. Give that up and the rest - and
yes we will truly become slaves to those who would love to destroy us. It is
too easy to sit back and do nothing.
CLF
Don Bowey
"Ignoramus22991" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.22991.invalid> wrote:
> I have to wonder what is the point of being a ham in the day and age
> of the internet.
>
> i
>
Talking to someone via ham radio means you are talking with someone with
developed skills with which you have something in common. There is a
kinship that is comfortable. Also, it's great fun to use low power and make
contact all over the planet.
There is nothing similar to ham radio, in the internet.
Don
onehapp...@yahoo.com
Cliff Sojourner wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
> > Hello Michael,
> >
> >
> >> The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good
> >> source for
> >> hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
> >>
> >
> > But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
> > front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
> > Places like Radio Shack as we knew it from the old days can only survive
> > when people built stuff.
>
> same could be said of most hams!! I bought an HT recently and I was
> astounded to learn HRO did NOT stock SMA connectors (needed for the HT),
> or RG174.
>
> Hams pay $30 to $60 for coax with BNCs at each end. Hams pay $30 for
> 12VDC 200mA wall warts! Hams pay $15 to $30 for serial cables.
>
Just so you know, Goodwill (and other thrift shops) sell those wall
warts for $1 apiece.
Joerg
> Sure... look at something like GNU Radio, the Elecraft kits, the TAPR VNA
> kit, etc.
>
> Being able to build something from a schematic prepares you for a job that
> pays little better than flipping burgers.
>
Not quite. As a kid I learned a whole lot from making other folk's
Heathkit projects work. Sending them in to Heathkit would have been the
ultimate embarrassment for them so they'd rather have someone local do
it. Schematic sez it should work but it ain't, so ... lessee.
That taught me a good dose of diagnostics and showed me lots of ways how
they designed stuff. You learn from examples and then go on to doing it
from scratch.
> This is very much like mowing your lawn -- if you can afford to pay soomeone
> else to do it, there's little point in doing it yourself unless you truly
> enjoy and experience and understand the "opportunity cost" (the time you
> won't be able to spend doing other things you might enjoy more) involved.
>
>
Lawn, yeah. Other stuff? Not quite. I am just doing a plumbing/framing
project because a broken fixture in a bath turned out to reveal huge
shortcomings in what the "professionals" did. I am not going to let that
happen again. BTW, they'd esily charge a couple thousand plus material.
Probably doing it myself will in the end equate to a fat three digit
hour rate.
Regards, Joerg
mc
> developed skills with which you have something in common. There is a
> kinship that is comfortable. Also, it's great fun to use low power and
> make
> contact all over the planet.
>
> There is nothing similar to ham radio, in the internet.
In particular, with ham radio, you don't need an ISP or a telephone line.
You can talk to the other side of the world with no equipment except what is
owned (and could even have been built) by the people on the two ends.
For emergency communication, ham radio is indispensable. Also, I think
shortwave technology should be kept alive in the interest of freedom. A
tyrant can take his country off the Internet but can't block all incoming
radio signals.
VY 73
N4TMI
Sjouke Burry
There is a deadly silence there most of the time.
I wonder how fast the ham population is
disappearing.....
onehapp...@yahoo.com
Say, doesn't Linux have some provision for using the ham radio bands
for telecommunication? Anyone have any experience with this?
mc
> Say, doesn't Linux have some provision for using the ham radio bands
> for telecommunication? Anyone have any experience with this?
All operating systems do. There's not much to it. What you need is
essentially a packet radio modem, and from there, TCP/IP over the air is not
hard to do.
You can't mix ham radio with the Internet because of the strict laws against
commercial traffic on ham radio. But apart from that, it's a good thing,
and very useful in emergencies.
I don't do packet radio myself because it's too much like my day job, but
it's certainly a popular part of ham radio.
Joerg
>>developed skills with which you have something in common. There is a
>>kinship that is comfortable. Also, it's great fun to use low power and make
>>contact all over the planet.
>
> your interests, using low power, worldwide.
>
>
And then, poof, there is a widespread power outage and all your 'modern'
communication is toast. Web, cell phones, everything but radio. Even the
POTS network will become spotty if the outage goes on for too long.
Generators are fine but they won't help when the snow pack is so huge
that a 4WD won't get you there to refuel. AFAIK the record for our area
stand at around 10 days. That makes people realize the true value of
some basic technologies. Now where was that bag of charcoal? Where can
we get some firewood that isn't wet? And where are those batteries?
Regards, Joerg
John Perry
>> I have to wonder what is the point of being a ham in the day and age
>> of the internet.
>>
>> i
>>
Joerg, etc. wrote:
>>> Talking to someone via ham radio means you are talking with someone with
>>> developed skills with which you have something in common. There is a
>>> kinship that is comfortable. Also, it's great fun to use low power
>>> and make
>>> contact all over the planet.
>>
>>
>> you could do the same thing over a computer. Connect to people sharing
>> your interests, using low power, worldwide.
>>
> And then, poof, there is a widespread power outage and all your 'modern'
> communication is toast. Web, cell phones, everything but radio. Even the
> POTS network will become spotty if the outage goes on for too long.
As Katrina just showed. OUr local newspaper just had a nice spread
about hams being the only means of communication into and out of La. and
Mississippi for a while after the landfall.
John Perry
mc
>> communication is toast. Web, cell phones, everything but radio. Even the
>> POTS network will become spotty if the outage goes on for too long.
>
> As Katrina just showed. OUr local newspaper just had a nice spread about
> hams being the only means of communication into and out of La. and
> Mississippi for a while after the landfall.
Exactly. Almost all ham gear these days runs on 12 volts DC, so anywhere
you have a running car, you can power it. Much of it is low-power and will
run for a very long time on a car battery.
James Sweet
>
> it is stories like these that always make me wonder how lots of kids like
> that survived child hood
>
> had a similar experiment story (similar age) mixing Acetylene and Oxygen
> from the torch into a small 16oz glass bottle then putting a match near
> opening to see what kind of flame would be produced :)
>
> for some unknown reason (alludes me to this day) i decided to put it inside
> of a 5 gallon paint bucket and that was the better part of the idea
>
> robb
>
>
It's nice to know I'm not the only one who connected a neon glow lamp
straight to 120V.
Thankfully I didn't have access to oxy-acetylene until highschool
welding class. I did find however that if you fill a welding glove with
it and then hit it with the torch striker it makes quite an impressive
boom and the glove launches.
Rob B
"James Sweet" <james...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Idjzf.28656$MG1.26247@trnddc05...
>
> >
> > it is stories like these that always make me wonder how lots of kids
like
> > that survived child hood
> >
>
> Thankfully I didn't have access to oxy-acetylene until highschool
> welding class. I did find however that if you fill a welding glove with
> it and then hit it with the torch striker it makes quite an impressive
> boom and the glove launches.
>
ah then you already know, i wasn't smart enough to try container like a
glove, that would have been entertaining
i am glad for alot of descisions at those times but not trying to fill one
of the larger containers ranks high on the list
Joel Kolstad
news:uoczf.17873$V9....@fe07.usenetserver.com...
> of the internet.
You get to (legally!) transmit on the HF bands where just a handful of watts
can carry a message around the planet... that's still pretty darned cool.
It's also a lot easier to find a free chunk-o-spectrum with a ham license if
you just want to build a few transmitters or receivers than trying to do
something on the ISM bands... and you get to use a lot more power.
The average ham today probably does have far less "electronics" knowledge
than one 50 years ago, although one has to keep in mind that 50 years ago it
was a lot easier to have a lot of "deep" knowledge in many fields than it is
today. Building something like a modern cell phone requires so much
knowledge that you can't really begrudge the guy who implemented, e.g., the
Viterbi decoder in some digital logic in some corner of an ASIC the fact
that he doesn't know how to solder.
Joel Kolstad
news:mCgzf.75010$4l5.49828@dukeread05...
> As Katrina just showed. OUr local newspaper just had a nice spread about
> hams being the only means of communication into and out of La. and
> Mississippi for a while after the landfall.
<< Cough! >> Hams certainly did plenty of good work, but there were people
with satellite phones in New Orleans throughout the ordeal. Additionally
the military had plenty of their own infrastructure, which included
satellite links.
For the average person, I think the best thing hams can do in disaster areas
these days is to set up a bunch of PCs that ship out short e-mail messages
over HF using Winlink or similiar. If the hams can manage to get a
reasonably high speed link to a functional hilltop repeater or similar
going, setting up a WiFi gateway would be the way to go.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about hams and emergency communications these
days. The kind of things that emergency operations personnel expect in the
way of communications these days tend to require a fair amount of fancy
equipment and a lot of training. Investing that sort of funding into a
"volunteer" group is not something that tends to go over very well anymore,
unless it's a group such as, e.g., a volunteer fire department where there
are strict duties and responsibilities spelled out and not just some "ad
hoc" gathering of a bunch of guys at a pizza parlor every month.
---Joel
Joel Kolstad
news:Dbfzf.278$z8....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> You can't mix ham radio with the Internet because of the strict laws
> against commercial traffic on ham radio.
I'm convinced that 99% of what the average person does on the Internet would
be completely legal if the data packets were going over ham frequencies as
well. Reading your personal e-mail? AOK (just don't read your work
e-mail!). Ordering a book on Amazon.Com? AOK (just as ordering a pizza
through a phone patch is). Etc...
Mike Andrews
> It's nice to know I'm not the only one who connected a neon glow lamp
> straight to 120V.
> Thankfully I didn't have access to oxy-acetylene until highschool
> welding class. I did find however that if you fill a welding glove with
> it and then hit it with the torch striker it makes quite an impressive
> boom and the glove launches.
If you put the tip in a dish of soap solution, you can get bubbles full of
stoichiometric oxyacetylene mix, which make a pretty good _BANG_ when you
light them.
This is better done outdoors than indoors.
--
Mike Andrews W5EGO 10WPM
mi...@mikea.ath.cx Extra
Tired old sysadmin working on his code speed
Don Bowey
Kolstad" <JKolstad7...@Yahoo.Com> wrote:
How can you be convinced of something that would be illegal? The ham
frequencies are for use by people who hold an appropriate license.
Don
Ken Weitzel
Hi..
The operation of the hardware is restricted to those who hold
an appropriate license. Who may or may not elect to share the
usefulness of that equipment with whoever he chooses.
To suggest otherwise would be akin to laying claim that only
those holding drivers licenses could be passengers in a car.
Or that only a properly licensed electrician could make use of
or enjoy electrical equipment. In turn most likely meaning that
you couldn't operate your shack being that you're most likely
not a licensed electrician.
Ken
jakdedert
> Hello Michael,
>
>
>> The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good
>> source for
>> hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
>>
>
> But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
> front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
> Places like Radio Shack as we knew it from the old days can only survive
> when people built stuff.
My favorite Christmas present this last year was a basic electronics kit
like the old RS (or Heath) ones I had as a kid. It was presented to me
by my nine year old daughter...in the hopes that I would build the
projects with her, of course.
We spent an hour putting the kit together, built the first project; and
then I turned her loose...thinking she would build the next most
complicated one, and work her way up.
The next day when I came home, she presented me with a working example
of the most complicated device in the project book. We had a ball
subbing in different components, and then explaining to her why they
made the circuit operate differently.
jak
>
> The Radio Shack here in town has closed. It become a cell phone store.
> Sigh.
>
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com
>
Joerg
> While you surely have a point, about a very remote possibility for any
> given locale, I actually have enough diesel fuel to last for a month of
> conservative use in winter, more for summer. I have a 26 year old Onan
> diesel generator that I restored.
>
Lucky you. That possibility isn't remote at all. Happened here about 15
years ago. And this is not a settlement behind the Klondike but we are
35mi from where Arnold holds his office.
Regards, Joerg
Joerg
> I have a lot of mixed feelings about hams and emergency communications these
> days. The kind of things that emergency operations personnel expect in the
> way of communications these days tend to require a fair amount of fancy
> equipment and a lot of training. ...
And then that fancy equipment won't talk to the fancy equipment of the
other agency. Happened, a lot. Keep it simple, that's what hams excel
at. And it works.
> ... Investing that sort of funding into a
> "volunteer" group is not something that tends to go over very well anymore,
> unless it's a group such as, e.g., a volunteer fire department where there
> are strict duties and responsibilities spelled out and not just some "ad
> hoc" gathering of a bunch of guys at a pizza parlor every month.
>
They are quite a bit more organized than that.
Regards, Joerg
Joerg
>
> The next day when I came home, she presented me with a working example
> of the most complicated device in the project book. We had a ball
> subbing in different components, and then explaining to her why they
> made the circuit operate differently.
>
That's the only way to get kids interested in electronics. Come to think
of it, I must have been around her age. Maybe a year younger but that
doesn't make much difference. It was a Philips kit that did it.
Later in case her interest persists just be honest with her about the
career prospects inside the US. It ain't that stellar anymore for EEs
unless they are very willing to relocate, even out of the country.
Regards, Joerg
jakdedert
which was actually for 'us' to play with. The fact that she took it and
ran with it was a bonus. It shows the aptitude.
At nine, she's got all the choices in the world.
jak
> Regards, Joerg
>
> http://www.analogconsultants.com
>
Ken Weitzel
Hi...
Guess I'm easily a generation or few ahead of you, so have a
suggestion, if I may?
Get pictures - lots of 'em - of her working on it, some of you and
her working together, and some of her demonstrating them to her Mom.
Make wonderful, wonderful memories for all of you, and maybe
introduce her to photography at the same time.
Take care.
Ken
Rich Grise
> Joerg wrote:
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>>
>>> The good ol' days of Radio Shack, when they were actually a good
>>> source for
>>> hobbyists. Now they are not much more than Best Buy wannabees.
>>>
>>
>> But why is that? Many kids aren't creative these days. They hang out in
>> front of the TV or some video game but don't actually build stuff.
>> Places like Radio Shack as we knew it from the old days can only survive
>> when people built stuff.
>
> My favorite Christmas present this last year was a basic electronics kit
> like the old RS (or Heath) ones I had as a kid. It was presented to me
> by my nine year old daughter...in the hopes that I would build the
> projects with her, of course.
>
> We spent an hour putting the kit together, built the first project; and
> then I turned her loose...thinking she would build the next most
> complicated one, and work her way up.
>
> The next day when I came home, she presented me with a working example
> of the most complicated device in the project book. We had a ball
> subbing in different components, and then explaining to her why they
> made the circuit operate differently.
>
OK, I'm an old softie - this made me emote. :-)
Next, do you plan to loan her your kit and a copy of AoE? ;-) Maybe access
to your junque box? ;-P
Thanks!
Rich
Rich Grise
> Don Bowey wrote:
>> On 1/18/06 12:58 AM, in article 11ss0pk...@corp.supernews.com, "Joel
>> Kolstad" <JKolstad7...@Yahoo.Com> wrote:
>>>"mc" <lo...@www.ai.uga.edu.for.address> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>against commercial traffic on ham radio.
>>>
>>>I'm convinced that 99% of what the average person does on the Internet would
>>>be completely legal if the data packets were going over ham frequencies as
>>>well. Reading your personal e-mail? AOK (just don't read your work
>>>e-mail!). Ordering a book on Amazon.Com? AOK (just as ordering a pizza
>>>through a phone patch is). Etc...
>>
>> How can you be convinced of something that would be illegal? The ham
>> frequencies are for use by people who hold an appropriate license.
>
> an appropriate license. Who may or may not elect to share the
> usefulness of that equipment with whoever he chooses.
>
> To suggest otherwise would be akin to laying claim that only
> those holding drivers licenses could be passengers in a car.
>
> Or that only a properly licensed electrician could make use of
> or enjoy electrical equipment. In turn most likely meaning that
> you couldn't operate your shack being that you're most likely
> not a licensed electrician.
So, who are these "passengers" who are using my rig for their
traffic?
Thanks,
Rich
Ken Weitzel
Rich Grise wrote:
Hi...
Anyone who you choose to.
Long distance telephone is now virtually free, and the internet
is free. But I'm in Canada, and my youngest is off to Australia
the end of the month. I may ask you to send a message off in
her general direction, and you may agree to do it. :)
No license necessary :)
Take care.
Ken
Joel Kolstad
"Joerg" <notthis...@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:NLyzf.6055$_S7....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Later in case her interest persists just be honest with her about the
> career prospects inside the US. It ain't that stellar anymore for EEs
> unless they are very willing to relocate, even out of the country.
Fair point, but I guess the question would be... "the prospects for EEs
aren't that stellar compared to... what?" Compared to most people in
technical fields I still think we do OK. (I do agree one typically does
have to relocate, but at least straight out of college I would hope that
most people would _want_ to do that.)
For people who really want to make money, an engineering degree along with a
business degree still seems like a really solid combination (in terms of
sheer results -- we can save the horror stories of these people for later!).
---Joel
Joel Kolstad
> And then that fancy equipment won't talk to the fancy equipment of the
> other agency. Happened, a lot.
Yes, and the government continues to pour millions of dollars into radio
interoperability to try to make it work. I see no technical reason why
getting all the fancy equipment to talk to other agencies should be a
problem (look at the Internet -- Usenet news and e-mail seems to make it to
all corners of the globe just fine, despite using lots of different brands
and types of equipment) -- I guess it really is much more a political
problem.
> Keep it simple, that's what hams excel at. And it works.
I agree it helps, but wouldn't you suspect that if you survived all the
Hurricane Katrina victims who received help from any formal organization, by
quantity those helped by more formalized organizations such as the Red Cross
would easily outnumber those who received helps from hams? The problem the
hams have is that their help often does go un- or under-acknowledged,
whereas everyone knows about the Red Cross.
> They are quite a bit more organized than that.
I guess it depends on the area? Those pictures on hamsexy.com aren't all
forged. :-)
---Joel
Joel Kolstad
news:BFF3C4BC.23156%dbo...@comcast.net...
> On 1/18/06 12:58 AM, in article 11ss0pk...@corp.supernews.com, "Joel
> Kolstad" <JKolstad7...@Yahoo.Com> wrote:
>> I'm convinced that 99% of what the average person does on the Internet
>> would
>> be completely legal if the data packets were going over ham frequencies
>> as
>> well.
I meant that if the people in question had ham radio licenses, of course.
My point was that a lot of people get VERY defensive if you suggest you're
going to provide a straight gateway between the airwaves and the Internet
for licensed hams to use, citing how the fact that there's no realistic
means of precluding that gateway's use for illegal activities (just as there
isn't when one uses an autopatch) should somehow be reason enough to
disallow it in the first place.
Joerg
> Long distance telephone is now virtually free, and the internet
> is free. ...
Ahem, not quite. I have to shell out $50 every month for DSL. Long
distance over regular phone lines is 3c/minute within US/Canada but only
with an MCI phone card. Overseas is anywhere north of 10c/minute if you
want the 'luxury' of a decent echo cancellation.
Regards, Joerg
mc
> My point was that a lot of people get VERY defensive if you suggest you're
> going to provide a straight gateway between the airwaves and the Internet
> for licensed hams to use, citing how the fact that there's no realistic
> means of precluding that gateway's use for illegal activities (just as
> there isn't when one uses an autopatch) should somehow be reason enough to
> disallow it in the first place.
But that's not the point. The point is that ham radio is required to be
noncommercial. The Internet is mostly business.
Joel Kolstad
> But that's not the point. The point is that ham radio is required to be
> noncommercial. The Internet is mostly business.
That was my (original) point -- a very large chunk of what most people use
their "personal" or "home" Internet connection for is NOT business... just
reading e-mail from friends, ordering the occasional book on Amazon, reading
newsgroup, surfing random web sites, whatever -- all things that are allowed
over ham frequencies. (Which -- as you're probably aware -- are regulated
such that you can't engage in activities in which you have a "pecuniary
interest," but it's been made clear that things like ordering a pizzaare
OK.)
Don Bowey
Kolstad" <JKolstad7...@Yahoo.Com> wrote:
If messages traverse the internet and jump into ham band packets at one or
both ends, and there is an operator controlling the transmission at the jump
points, I don't perceive any legal problems for non-commercial messages.
For "emergency" traffic it would be a valuable process. Maybe some are
doing this..... It's not a brain-buster.
Don
James Sweet
>>The Mims books were 1 aisle over. ;-)
>
>
> Oh those!! I'm just looking at the Transistor Projects Volume 1, I
> must have built all them projects from Volume 0 (Mine has the cover
> ripped off, it started with an AM radio project) to Volume 3. He was
> getting a tad 'complicated' with the 'Integrated Projects Vol 1', what
> with the new breadboard things and the 'new' integrated circuits.
>
>
Those really were great books, does anyone still offer them anymore?
If not I'll have to see if I can find my green book and scan it into a
pdf, it'd be nice if I could find the rest in the series to do that with.
James Sweet
> Fair point, but I guess the question would be... "the prospects for EEs
> aren't that stellar compared to... what?" Compared to most people in
> technical fields I still think we do OK. (I do agree one typically does
> have to relocate, but at least straight out of college I would hope that
> most people would _want_ to do that.)
>
I dunno, I certainly wouldn't want to relocate. I love the area I grew
up in, nearly my entire family lives within a few hundred miles, it'd be
a big hassle to fly in for family events a few times a year. To each
their own I suppose.
Joel Kolstad
> If messages traverse the internet and jump into ham band packets at one or
> both ends, and there is an operator controlling the transmission at the
> jump
> points, I don't perceive any legal problems for non-commercial messages.
> For "emergency" traffic it would be a valuable process. Maybe some are
> doing this..... It's not a brain-buster.
Yeah, the whole idea though really turns some people off, unfortunately. My
opinion is that reasonably cool heads are prevailing, though, and ham radio
regulations are sloooowwwllllly moving in the right direction. It appears
that regulation primarily by bandwidth (rather than emission type) will be
the law of the land in the next couple of years.
James Sweet
> Hello Ken,
>
>> Long distance telephone is now virtually free, and the internet
>> is free. ...
>
>
>
> Ahem, not quite. I have to shell out $50 every month for DSL. Long
> distance over regular phone lines is 3c/minute within US/Canada but only
> with an MCI phone card. Overseas is anywhere north of 10c/minute if you
> want the 'luxury' of a decent echo cancellation.
>
You don't *have* to shell out $50/month. My DSL is $30, but if I wanted
to I could get dialup for $5, or I could go to the local library and use
it for free. The added cost is for the convenience of having a fast
connection at home.
Joel Kolstad
news:4FDzf.19564$6L1.11367@trnddc02...
> I dunno, I certainly wouldn't want to relocate. I love the area I grew up
> in, nearly my entire family lives within a few hundred miles, it'd be a
> big hassle to fly in for family events a few times a year. To each their
> own I suppose.
I didn't say people should never come back. :-) I just think one can learn
a lot by moving around a little, trying out different states, countries,
whatever your resources allow you to. My understanding is that in many
western European countries, Oz, NZ, etc. this "experience" is somewhat
formalized, with something like a year right after college reserved for
travelling the globe.
Sheesh, I really need to get back to work and quit getting so sentimental
when stuck in a motel in San Diego for a week...!
James Sweet
>
> Yeah, the whole idea though really turns some people off, unfortunately. My
> opinion is that reasonably cool heads are prevailing, though, and ham radio
> regulations are sloooowwwllllly moving in the right direction. It appears
> that regulation primarily by bandwidth (rather than emission type) will be
> the law of the land in the next couple of years.
>
>
I'm sure it will eventually. Ham will either evolve with the times or it
will fade out of existence. I know a few old timers who are into ham
radio but I've not yet met anyone in my 20-something generation who's
into it, not even one.
Keith
I guess! I moved nine hundred miles from the family upon graduation and
another couple of hundred more 20 years later. My father moved from the
UP of Michigan to Schenectady NY in the 40s for similar reasons.
Comparitively, I have it easy since I've only had to move the family
twice (kid only once) and travel is so much easier today. If you want the
job you gotta go where it is. If you want to stay home with momma, don't
whine about it.
--
Keith