How to copy a "copy-protected" VHS tapes
Shawn Barham
Does anyone know how to copy a "copy protected" video tape?
I want to copy my VHS tapes to 8MM, but some of them are
copy protected. The copies of protectred tapes tend to
flicker. I have connected RCA jacks from the VHS tape
deck line-out, to the 8MM tape deck line-in. Do I need
a special cable or device for copying the pretected tapes?
I found the following device, which is only available in
Europe. Is there something available in the US?
http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Morten_Brorup/vidstab.html
Ken Koskie
The Electronics Warehouse Corp. at 1-800-221-0424 lists a Video
Stabilizer #LW-100 which may answer your needs.
Ken
Vincent Kruskal
In <5685ub$4...@sparky.qds.com>, sba...@qds.com (Shawn Barham) writes:
>Does anyone know how to copy a "copy protected" video tape?
>I want to copy my VHS tapes to 8MM, but some of them are
>copy protected. The copies of protectred tapes tend to
>flicker. I have connected RCA jacks from the VHS tape
>deck line-out, to the 8MM tape deck line-in. Do I need
>a special cable or device for copying the pretected tapes?
>
>I found the following device, which is only available in
>Europe. Is there something available in the US?
>http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Morten_Brorup/vidstab.html
>
>
I'm surprised. I've never had trouble copying prerecorded tapes to 8mm
or Beta. I've heard that these formats are immune to macrovision
(although they carry it and it will reappear if copied back to VHS).
What model 8mm VCR are you using? Maybe your TV is one of the rare
ones which are troubled by macrovision.
Vincent
Diversified Technical Resources
sba...@qds.com (Shawn Barham) wrote:
>Does anyone know how to copy a "copy protected" video tape?
>I want to copy my VHS tapes to 8MM, but some of them are
>copy protected. The copies of protectred tapes tend to
>flicker. I have connected RCA jacks from the VHS tape
>deck line-out, to the 8MM tape deck line-in. Do I need
>a special cable or device for copying the pretected tapes?
There are a number of commercially available "digital video
stabilizers" available in the US.
Fox International Distributers sells them wholesale for $18.00-30.00
depending on when you call. Their tel number is 1-800-321-6993.
Their part number is XXX-15-5636
If they won't sell to you, they are available retail mail order from
the ever popular "DAMARK" catalog for $29.99.
Their tel is 1-800-729-9000. They call it a "Video Clarifier", a
recent catalog number is/was B-8820-472503.
They are about 95% effective.
Please note:
WARNING these products are not made or sold for unauthorized recording
of copyrighted works including unauthorized recordings from
pre-recorded copyrighted programs. ETC, ETC ETC
Gary A. Edelstein
I've got one of the Damark ones and it does work for Macrovision
protection, depending on the input deck. My 10 year old Panasonic VHS
Hi-Fi (No MTS tuner, Dobly B linear stereo non-Hi-Fi audio too) works
fine as an input deck, while my new JVC Hi-Fi doesn't. Why some input
decks work and others don't is my question. Anyone know? Is there
added circuitry that the newer decks have to defeat the stablilizer
boxes? Gary E
|Gary A. Edelstein
|ap...@detroit.freenet.org;he...@cleveland.freenet.edu
|GREEN BAY PACKERS RULE
|I don't live in Detroit or Cleveland
|Born, raised and still living in Wisconsin
RJ Miles
>>Why some input decks work and others don't is my question.<<
Voluntary compliance among manufactures to support the doctoring of the
video control track to allow for copy protection to work. VCR and TV are
both designed this way.
I have an old Sony 13" studio monitor that almost doesnt suffer from the
artifacts of Macrovision, while a New Sony and couple tyear old RCA go
haywire.
My Panasonic AG-1980 & 4670 both suffer. I have been meaning to to try
putting a professional Betacam SP deck in the loop with onboard TBC to
see if that strips out the Copy Protection.
Cheers
RJ
...
Isaac Bergen
Shawn Barham wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to copy a "copy protected" video tape?
> I want to copy my VHS tapes to 8MM, but some of them are
> copy protected. The copies of protectred tapes tend to
> flicker. I have connected RCA jacks from the VHS tape
> deck line-out, to the 8MM tape deck line-in. Do I need
> a special cable or device for copying the pretected tapes?
>
> Europe. Is there something available in the US?
> http://www2.dk-online.dk/users/Morten_Brorup/vidstab.html
Go to your local library and look in the advertising section of Popular
Electronics and Electronics Now magazines. Video stabilizers are widely
advertised there.
Good Luck,
--
Isaac
Greg
> Why don't you just buy one of those 'video stabilizers' which
> kills off the macrovision effect by adding a fresh, new 'sync'
> track to the picture it processes?
I tried one of those. The results were less than inspiring. Believe it or
not, the best way to defeat CP is to...<BANG!>
AHHHHH!!!...th...they...found...m...meeee...<thud>...
Jeroen H. Stessen
Gary A. Edelstein wrote:
> I've got one of the Damark ones and it does work for Macrovision
> protection, depending on the input deck. My 10 year old Panasonic VHS
> Hi-Fi (No MTS tuner, Dobly B linear stereo non-Hi-Fi audio too) works
> fine as an input deck, while my new JVC Hi-Fi doesn't. Why some input
> decks work and others don't is my question. Anyone know? Is there
> boxes? Gary E
JVC owns the patent for VHS. JVC has made a deal with Macrovision that from
a certain date in the past *no* VHS recorder licenced by JVC shall be able
to record any video signal that contains Macrovision's copy protection
pulses. Any video recorder from before that date (VHS or other) might
well work OK on the altered video signal ! The copy protection pulses
upset the video-AGC and H-sync. TV's usually don't have a video-AGC.
The stabilizer box removes the extra pulses and makes it into a normal
video signal again. No VCR should ever know the difference, so they
should all record properly again.
At the same time, all TV's are required to ignore the copy protection
pulses. As a TV-designer I can tell you that this is sometimes far from
trivial. Not in the least because in the beginning we were not included
in "the deal". There may be TV's around whose brightness and/or sync will
be disturbed by the Macrovision pulses. Officially, this is the reason
for existance of the stabilizer boxes: to view better, not to copy better.
Unofficially, they are sold for copying, of course.
The next step will be that digital-TV decoders will output an analog TV
signal with Macrovision copy-protection pulses so that you may watch but
not record your pay-per-view program. Same problem, same solution ...
And I thought that PAL/Secam/NTSC were *standards*, sigh ...
Regards,
Jeroen Stessen
Reply-to: Jeroen....@ehv.ce.philips.com
Gary A. Edelstein
On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:53:23 +0000, RJ Miles <a...@blanca.com> wrote:
>>>Why some input decks work and others don't is my question.<<
>
>Voluntary compliance among manufactures to support the doctoring of the
>video control track to allow for copy protection to work. VCR and TV are
>both designed this way.
>
>I have an old Sony 13" studio monitor that almost doesnt suffer from the
>artifacts of Macrovision, while a New Sony and couple tyear old RCA go
>haywire.
>
>My Panasonic AG-1980 & 4670 both suffer. I have been meaning to to try
>putting a professional Betacam SP deck in the loop with onboard TBC to
>see if that strips out the Copy Protection.
>
>Cheers
>
>RJ
>...
Sorry, I should have been clearer with my question. The issue is why
certain input decks work WITH the video stabilizer in place, and
others don't, even with the stabilizer in place. If I take the
stabilizer out of the video signal path, NONE of the input decks work.
Do the newer decks include circuitry to defeat the stablilizer box?
Thanks, Gary E
kk...@direct.ca
sba...@qds.com (Shawn Barham) wrote:
>Does anyone know how to copy a "copy protected" video tape?
I have 2 vhs vcrs (one is 1 yr old, the other 2 yrs). I have had no
problems with Macrovision so far when duping movies (for later viewing
on one night rentals). I was using the buster box until I discovered
that I didn't even need it. The only condition was that I had to start
the target machine in record mode (paused), before hitting play on the
source machine. The other way around and macrovision would kick in.
ps don't bother asking which brand of machines. If word gets out, they
might be forced to change the design...
I wonder how good the Go-video dual deck machines are? Check them out
at www.govideo,com
we...@aol.com
There have been several generations of Macrovision. All work about the
same. They put "whiter than white" and "blacker than black" video signals
on a few scan lines at the top of the picture. The purpose is to confuse
the servo circuits in vcrs into thinking they are vertical sync pulses, so
that the recorder will lock onto them instead of the real sync. Many
recent TVs use digital V-sync circuits that derive V-sync from H-sync or
otherwise double check sync to ensure a steadier picture. Also: TVs can
react almost instantaneously to sync changes, so if the set locks onto the
wrong sync, it can correct within a field or two. VCRs must make tape
speed and position corrections, and that can take seconds...thus the
picture screws up when playing.
If you roll the vertical sync control on a TV playing a Macrovision tape
so that you can seen the sync bar, the "protection" signals appear as
white blocks toward the left side of the picture. The blocks vary in
intensity with time.
On the few occassions that I've needed to copy a Macrovision signal, I've
done it through a Panasonic WJ-AVE5 digital AV mixer, and it completely
removes the bad sync (not just from Macrovision, but from lousy signals of
all types). Running the signal through a Miro DC20 (computer) video
capture board does the same thing. The little gadget "video stabilizers"
I've seen are extremely variable in performance; the ones that really work
(completely restore sync and don't add 30 dB of noise) have all been
kit-built from ads in Popular Electronics, etc. A copy made through one
of them is forever copy-able because the video that simulates bad sync is
completely gone.
Paul Weber
Albuquerque, NM
webpa
we...@aol.com
Oh, by the way...The Go-Video dual decks I've seen use direct FM-to-FM
copying. That is: The FM video signals on the tape are not converted to
composite video between the play and record decks. Thus, they are not
affected by Macrovision and the copy is Macrovision-protected exactly like
the original. Don't know if this applies to the VHS-8mm version; haven't
seen one of those....
C-ko Kotobuki
>JVC owns the patent for VHS. JVC has made a deal with Macrovision that from
>a certain date in the past *no* VHS recorder licenced by JVC shall be able
>to record any video signal that contains Macrovision's copy protection
>pulses. Any video recorder from before that date (VHS or other) might
>well work OK on the altered video signal ! The copy protection pulses
>upset the video-AGC and H-sync. TV's usually don't have a video-AGC.
>The stabilizer box removes the extra pulses and makes it into a normal
>video signal again. No VCR should ever know the difference, so they
>should all record properly again.
Then is it possible to bypass the AGC control circuitry in the VCR?
C-ko
BELJAN E
In <19961116210...@ladder01.news.aol.com> we...@aol.com
writes:
seems to work great. There are a few generations of this device. Most
recently they were in a plastic box and had a small instruction sheet.
powered by 9 volt batteries. It has about 6 chips in it, and about 12
million transitors and resistors (maybe a slight exaggeration) and it
has a potentiometer that is adjustable to work. I bought this device
for $16 and use it because the Macrovision is terrible in causing
interference on my VCR during playback (flicker) there are a few
different copyguard systems Macrovision and Copyguard. This device
eliminated both. I test copied a few minutes of some rented movies.
Disney tapes have some sort of copy protection that flickers the screen
but it doesnt fade the brightness as does Macrovision, it is
eliminated. Macrovision used on the movie Defending Your Life, was
completely removed. And my third test was on an early tape using copy
guard. It caused some flickering and stuff and it too was eliminated.
So the device works. It also works at eliminating that interference the
macrovision causes.
John Chennavasin
>Then is it possible to bypass the AGC control circuitry in the VCR?
Theoretically, yes, as long as it's not buried in some ASIC. JVC's
pro-line VCRs allow you to turn off the AGC circuitry.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
John Chennavasin <che...@haas.berkeley.edu> http://haas.berkeley.edu/~chennav
Joan O'Bryan
In article <3290a38f...@207.017.118.002>,
Gary A. Edelstein <ap...@detroit.freenet.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:53:23 +0000, RJ Miles <a...@blanca.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Why some input decks work and others don't is my question.<<
> >
> >Voluntary compliance among manufactures to support the doctoring of the
> >video control track to allow for copy protection to work. VCR and TV are
> >both designed this way.
...
> Sorry, I should have been clearer with my question. The issue is why
> certain input decks work WITH the video stabilizer in place, and
> others don't, even with the stabilizer in place. If I take the
> stabilizer out of the video signal path, NONE of the input decks work.
> Do the newer decks include circuitry to defeat the stablilizer box?
Look at it this way. The reason that you see changes in brightness is
that the "protection" signal that is added makes the unit's AGC (auto-
matic gain control) think that the level has shifted, when it hasn't.
So it adjusts to compensate.
So if you have an older VCR without AGC (or a mild application), it may
not be affected as much (or at all, after passing through a "stabilizer"
box). If the sensitivity of the AGC is high (like it is on most JVC's)
and the response-time is short, any small amount that leaks through
will still cause problems.
For those familiar with the electronic circuitry in VCRs, both the time-
constant in the RC circuit for response-speed, as well as the AGC sens-
itivity can be adjusted by manipulating simple resistor values. I don't
have any specifics on this (and it varies on different machines), so
don't bother asking for it. :-)
But at least you now know why some decks react differently.
- Mark
--
Mark T. O'Bryan Internet: obr...@gumby.cc.wmich.edu
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI 49008
G.H.
A lot of good theoretical stuff, but look at
http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/HTML/LINK/F_MacroVision.html
for the real thing!
CU,Gottfried
Brian Campanotti
Gary A. Edelstein wrote:
> I've got one of the Damark ones and it does work for Macrovision
> protection, depending on the input deck. My 10 year old Panasonic VHS
> Hi-Fi (No MTS tuner, Dobly B linear stereo non-Hi-Fi audio too) works
> fine as an input deck, while my new JVC Hi-Fi doesn't. Why some input
> decks work and others don't is my question. Anyone know? Is there
> added circuitry that the newer decks have to defeat the stablilizer
> boxes?
It has to do with the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) circuitry at the
video input to each device. Some of the older VCRs either don't have
this AGC circuit, or just don't have a very responsive one.
All you really have to do to defeat macrovision type copy protection is
to change the response time of your AGC circuit (the defeat boxes
stabilize voltage levels prior to the input circuit of your VCR). This
is a lot easier if you have schematics for your VCR. Basically,
macrovision relies on tricking the input circuitry to your VCR into
thinking that there is something wrong with the input video signal, and
forces the AGC circuit to change its gain to compensate. This in turn
screws up the video/sync voltage levels enough to screw up your
picture/record. What you want to do is lengthen the time that it takes
for your AGC circuit to respond to input voltage variations, or defeat
the AGC circuit all together.
This will probably be an easier process on older VCRs.
Brian
---------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Campanotti, P.Eng. Phone: (416) 205-8860
Project Engineer Fax: (416) 205-8500
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation bcam...@toronto.cbc.ca
Toronto, Ontario bcam...@io.org
Canada http://www.io.org/~bcampano
---------------------------------------------------------------
Dr E. Buxbaum
A lot of tapes are "encrypted" by putting impulses into the dark pause between lines. Those
disturb the recording electronics in a VCR more than they disturb the TV set. So the trick
basically is just to filter out those impulses. There were a couple of circruits published to
do that, if I remember right, one was in elector several years back.
Michael Bills
Go to http://www.cs.tut.fi/~ap105053/macrovision.html for a FAQ on
macrovision
Zev Berkovich
The cheapest way to defeat the macrovision is to get hold of an old BETA
vcr, which you may find for 10 or 20 bucks. Most of these do not have any
problem recording macrovision protected tapes, and you can find some
pretty good deals on blank BETA tapes as well.
--
jack wright
buy an OLD vcr. one built before they put in the circuitry, if you can
find one and if you just have to copy tapes. one thing ihave noticed is
that old purchased tapes look a whole lot better than the new ones with
the copy protection.
jack wright
a lot of trouble to get a movie that you might never watch. buy the tape.
by the way, is the copy protection on the movie channels too?
Bud Burroughs
In article <32A1AA...@ghgcorp.com>, jack wright <jwwr...@ghgcorp.com>
wrote:
>
> a lot of trouble to get a movie that you might never watch. buy the tape.
> by the way, is the copy protection on the movie channels too?
Some newer cable boxes have built-in Macrovision encoders which can be
selectively turned off if the user pays an additional fee for taping
rights. Just one more way for the cable companies to squeeze a few more
bucks out of us!
Leebo
jack wright <jwwr...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>Greg wrote:
>>
>> > Why don't you just buy one of those 'video stabilizers' which
>> > kills off the macrovision effect by adding a fresh, new 'sync'
>> > track to the picture it processes?
>>
>> I tried one of those. The results were less than inspiring.
Macrovision messes with the record VCRs auto gain circuit. Replacing
the sync signal will do the trick (with a TBC or other), as will using
a VCR with a defeatable auto gain circuit ( Pro VCR ). Go Video's dual
deck VCR's also work. Sometimes you can get lucky with the right
combination of consumer VCR's. The cost of these options compared to a
$15 video may not be worth it.
S Chung
A stupid but simple way is to play the tape through a TV that has both
audio and video output jacks. Record from these jacks instead of the VCR
output jacks. It works!
Sam
Michael Bills (bil...@bones.et.byu.edu) wrote:
: Go to http://www.cs.tut.fi/~ap105053/macrovision.html for a FAQ on
: macrovision
Henrik Johnsson
jack wright (jwwr...@ghgcorp.com) wrote:
[snip]
> buy an OLD vcr. one built before they put in the circuitry, if you can
> find one and if you just have to copy tapes. one thing ihave noticed is
> that old purchased tapes look a whole lot better than the new ones with
> the copy protection.
But Macrovision doesn't rely on any magic circuitry that has been added
to the VCRs. It uses the automatic gain control present in all consumer
VCRs, even the old ones. AFAIK the VHS standard does not specify the
function of this circuit so different brands/models would probably not
work exactly the same way. This means that some VCRs will work better
than others when treated with the broken video signal of a protected
tape, just as some TV sets were affected by Macrovision in the early
days. (Still are maybe?)
The old VCRs had one advantage though. They were built using more
discrete electronics which means they are far easier to modify if
you like to disable the AGC. Today it's all stuffed into a few ICs.
The best way I've used was also the most expensive. Use a VCR with
a SYNC input, run the output through a video mixer. Replace the upper
part of the picture (above the visible area) with a clean picture.
This was all done for experimental purposes of course. And not while
working for my current employer, mind you.
/Henrik
--
Helling Bernie
>buy an OLD vcr. one built before they put in the circuitry, if you can
>find one and if you just have to copy tapes. one thing ihave noticed is
>that old purchased tapes look a whole lot better than the new ones with
>the copy protection.
Has anyone ever tried this??? I mean really, DOES IT WORK???
Or is this one of those- It should work, It's late at night,
whatthehell...suggest it.... type of net-legends...
Because big ugly top-load RCA's from the dawn of time are out there...
(the really BIG ones, %50 bigger than regular top loaders, the KNOB tuners
are a dead give-away....)
AND: the only thing that goes wrong with them is the light bulb (no led)
on the post in the middle, for tape sensing, burns out... That shuts
everything down for safety...)
The VCR repair pros are guffawing at this "tip". . . .
Oh yeh... big belt underneath slips, circuit boards are hinged for
access...
And I was gonna dump these tanks....
Also: Anyone try the "record to the 8mm camcorder" trick, another bit of
net-lore...
The broadcast through the little uhf transmitter (video rabbit) trick is
less than useful.
Just wonnerin... I watch too much tube anyhoo...
B/H.
Eric
sometimes using an older vcr works great.
greetings Eric.
Leebo <cin...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<32a3cc0a...@news.pacbell.net>...
Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D.
colinmc wrote:
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> specifically
> designed to defeat VHS. So record onto another tape format (which means
> of course
> you'll get better pictures, too, since ALL tape formats are better than
> VHS).
> How about a nice Beta Hi-Fi machine? Or Video 8, or Hi8? Possibly even
> SVHS.
>
> __柯__________洵___洵__柯_____柯__________ Colin McCormick
Based on my experiences, Macrovision does work on other formats. I cannot
speak for them all, but I can speak for Hi-8 and S-VHS. I have tried copying
to both formats, and the results have the traditional Macrovision washouts.
Also, I have tried "Video Stabilizers," and they work sometimes but not all
of the time.
Lon
--
"Man, in order to be great, calls himself an animal." --Walter A. Henrichsen
Louis A. Carliner
jack wright <jwwr...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>G.H. wrote:
>>
>> A lot of good theoretical stuff, but look at
>>
>> http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/HTML/LINK/F_MacroVision.html
>>
>> for the real thing!
>>
>> CU,Gottfried
>a lot of trouble to get a movie that you might never watch. buy the tape.
>by the way, is the copy protection on the movie channels too?
Only if the cable operator chooses to, for which few to. Mine's do
not. DSS reportedly has the capability of turning it on, but
reportedly does not and has been quoted to as saying that they do not
have any plans to do now or in the future at this time.
Louis A. Carliner
Your source for video calibration expertise for
Washington, D.C., Maryland, Virginia and West Virgina
as well as Southern Delaware UNTIL LATE 1997
in transistion to West Central Florida
by an ISF/Joe Kane trained specialist equipped with both
the Philips color analyser and ISF optical comparator.
Phone: (301) 340-6120
email: lcar...@idsonline.com
Brent Best
Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> colinmc wrote:
> >
> Based on my experiences, Macrovision does work on other formats. I cannot
> speak for them all, but I can speak for Hi-8 and S-VHS. I have tried copying
> to both formats, and the results have the traditional Macrovision washouts.
> Also, I have tried "Video Stabilizers," and they work sometimes but not all
> of the time.
>
> Lon
>
Lon, I have been successful in copying heavily Macro-protected movies
(like Disney) onto 8mm. I own a Hi8 Sharp ViewCam, which is very useful
for entertaining kids with their favortie movies on long car trips. Dubbing
from VHS was no problem. When playing back these copied tapes, the LCD monitor
is slighty dimmed at the top edge, probably due to Macrovision pulse
interference, but it is not distracting. I don't care anyways because the LCD
monitor doesn't have nearly the resolution of a typical home TV, and the 8mm
will only be played on the Viewcam's screen anyway. If you're thinking of
redubbing from 8mm back to VHS easily, forget it. The Macrovision pulses are
recorded intact. If you want to playback the Viewcam hooked to a TV, you either
have to use a TV with a video input, or use the Sharp RF modulator accessory
hooked to the antenna jack. Hooking the Viewcam up to a VCR's input and
outputing to a TV won't work with the pirate tapes.
Greg
> Lon, I have been successful in copying heavily Macro-protected movies
> (like Disney) onto 8mm. I own a Hi8 Sharp ViewCam, which is very useful
> for entertaining kids with their favortie movies on long car trips.
Dubbing
> from VHS was no problem. When playing back these copied tapes, the LCD
monitor
> is slighty dimmed at the top edge, probably due to Macrovision pulse
I discovered a method that works with every protection scheme I've seen so
far. Instead of going through the A/V jacks, I use the coax jacks with a
Rabbit-type setup acting as an intermediater. This seems to defeat copy
protection. I do get a slight effect with Macro-protected tapes, but
nothing obtrusive.
joll...@mc.net
On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, jack wright wrote:
> Greg wrote:
> >
> > > Why don't you just buy one of those 'video stabilizers' which
> > > kills off the macrovision effect by adding a fresh, new 'sync'
> > > track to the picture it processes?
> >
> > I tried one of those. The results were less than inspiring. Believe it or
> > not, the best way to defeat CP is to...<BANG!>
> > AHHHHH!!!...th...they...found...m...meeee...<thud>...
>
>
> buy an OLD vcr. one built before they put in the circuitry, if you can
> find one and if you just have to copy tapes. one thing ihave noticed is
> that old purchased tapes look a whole lot better than the new ones with
> the copy protection.
>
>
I hope this can find its way to the right person. Another way to
eliminate the problem is to turn down the AGC control in the recording
VCR. On many VCRs, this pot is not clearly labeled or is replaced with a
fixed resistor (this fact may have changed but was valid a few years ago).
Tim
ma...@ibm.net
In <32A81DF7...@Microware.com>, "Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D." <Go...@Microware.com> writes:
>colinmc wrote:
>>
>> x-no-archive: yes
>> Bud Burroughs wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <32A1AA...@ghgcorp.com>, jack wright <jwwr...@ghgcorp.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > by the way, is the copy protection on the movie channels too?
>> > selectively turned off if the user pays an additional fee for taping
>> > rights. Just one more way for the cable companies to squeeze a few more
>> > bucks out of us!
>>
>> True indeed, but the solution is to ditch VHS. Macrovision is
>> specifically
>> designed to defeat VHS. So record onto another tape format (which means
>> of course
>> you'll get better pictures, too, since ALL tape formats are better than
>> VHS).
>> How about a nice Beta Hi-Fi machine? Or Video 8, or Hi8? Possibly even
>> SVHS.
>>
>> __柯__________洵___洵__柯_____柯__________ Colin McCormick
>
>speak for them all, but I can speak for Hi-8 and S-VHS. I have tried copying
>to both formats, and the results have the traditional Macrovision washouts.
>Also, I have tried "Video Stabilizers," and they work sometimes but not all
>of the time.
>
>Lon
>
>"Man, in order to be great, calls himself an animal." --Walter A. Henrichsen
I've heard of this too, and have a friend who was unable to tape from VHS to Hi8
(and 8mm) -- we finally decided it MUST be his RCA VCR -- for I'd been taping from
VHS to Hi8 & Beta for years without any problems.
Weird thing is that once you've made a "clean" copy from VHS to another format,
if you record back to VHS "sometimes (read 'usually')" the copy protection kicks
back in.
Can anybody explain this in non-tech language?
As for your inability to go from VHS -->Hi8, as I say, I've never had any problems.
Machines in use: Sony EVS-3000, Sony SL-HF 1000 & 750 & Mitsubishi (can't remember
model number.
Brian R. Shaw
Hi,
What is a Rabbit-type setup acting as an intermediator? Please
explain.
TIA
Brian
Brad
jack wright (jwwr...@ghgcorp.com) wrote:
: Greg wrote:
: >
: > > Why don't you just buy one of those 'video stabilizers' which
: > > kills off the macrovision effect by adding a fresh, new 'sync'
: > > track to the picture it processes?
: >
: > I tried one of those. The results were less than inspiring. Believe it or
: > not, the best way to defeat CP is to...<BANG!>
: > AHHHHH!!!...th...they...found...m...meeee...<thud>...
:
:
: buy an OLD vcr. one built before they put in the circuitry, if you can
: find one and if you just have to copy tapes. one thing ihave noticed is
: that old purchased tapes look a whole lot better than the new ones with
: the copy protection.
I have to agree with that. I spend an hour last night re-re-re-wiring my
VCRs and finally found a combination that allows me to watch movies,
although after paying $400 for a HIFI VCR I find that I can't watch any
HI-FI tapes because macrovision thinks my TV is a VCR trying to make a
copy.
I finally found the best system was to play the tape in my old VCR
(maganox 8404) thru a macro scrubber into my new maganovox VRU562 and into
the TV.
Personally I think that macrovision encourages piracy since you get better
quality from a copy then you do with an original tape. Why are people
going to pay even $14.95 for a tape that look like crap even on a plain
VCR to TV hook-up.
Reminds me of the days of software copy protection. Professional pirate
can always find a way around copy protection since they can afford the
professional equipment and/or have access to other types of media (such as
the theater prints). The home users will in turn be drawn to the
pro-pirates because their product will be of better quality then the
offical product.
Greg
> What is a Rabbit-type setup acting as an intermediator? Please
> explain.
The Rabbit system consisted of a transmitter and a receiver that was used
so you could watch a video on a set in another room even if you didn't have
a VCR. Say you have a VCR in the living room, but not in the bedroom. You
hook the transmitter to the deck in the living room and the receiver in the
bedroom. These operated either via wireless or wired.
In my case, I chose the wired since I would have both units right next to
each other. I referred to it as an intermediary since it was used to
defeat the copy protection.
Gavin Chester
I've got a a schematic I can email anyone who is interested.
--
Gavin_J...@sbphrd.com IRC: ChaosMan
Coffee without the caffeine is like sex without the costumes. -
DuckMan
Opinions expressed in this post are mine alone, not my employers.
Duane Allred
colinmc <col...@mail.zynet.co.uk> wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>Bud Burroughs wrote:
>>
>> In article <32A1AA...@ghgcorp.com>, jack wright <jwwr...@ghgcorp.com>
>> wrote:
Macrovision is TOTAL BS - I have 2 Toshiba VHS HI-FI decks that are
about 1.5 years old. I can play a Macrovision encoded tape in the
M650 deck and record using the M760 and no dropouts at all.
However, if I reverse tha above, I can't defeat Macrovision.
Apparently the M760 is immune to this.
I'm not sure if the newer Toshiba's can do this...
Does anyone know of any HI-FI VHS (SVHS) that has a manual gain for
the video signal??? That would end this once and for all...
If a manufacturer would come out with a good deck that would allow the
user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
/ `-' ) ,,,
| IU U||||||||[:::]
\_.-.( '''
My 1978 Carvin CM140 Stereo Guitar
DAL...@CTS.COM
Sam Goldwasser
In article <32A495...@mail.zynet.co.uk> colinmc <col...@mail.zynet.co.uk> writes:
<snip>
> True indeed, but the solution is to ditch VHS. Macrovision is
> specifically
> designed to defeat VHS. So record onto another tape format (which means
> of course
> you'll get better pictures, too, since ALL tape formats are better than
> VHS).
> How about a nice Beta Hi-Fi machine? Or Video 8, or Hi8? Possibly even
> SVHS.
Are you donating the VCR? Not everyone has the option of replacing their
equipment.
--- sam
Brad
Duane Allred (dal...@cts.com) wrote:
: Does anyone know of any HI-FI VHS (SVHS) that has a manual gain for
: the video signal??? That would end this once and for all...
:
: If a manufacturer would come out with a good deck that would allow the
: user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
: darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
: legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
:
The problem is that manufacturers can be sued or even face criminal
penalities for marketing a product that can be used to commit a crime. (I
know you think this is bullshit, but you can sue for anything, and
corporates have entire departments full of lawyers who's job it is to say
"WE CAN'T DO THIS").
As an example, a company called AppleCat made a modem that could also
produce any other tone (an early sort of sound blaster so to speak). This
made it invaluable as a tool for phone fraud, and the company was sued by
AT&T and driven out of business.
Many knives are banned in Yolo County California, because of a local
attorney who has managed to win suits against companies whos knives are
used in crimes. The current trend in liability law is to hold the maker of
a product liable for the end use of the product, especially in deep
pocket tort cases in soviet socialist republics like California & Mass.
Greg
> If a manufacturer would come out with a good deck that would allow the
> user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
> darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
> legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
From my obervations, it appears that Macro doesn't just darken the picture,
but also effects contrast and color. If that's true, having a video gain
won't be sufficient.
G.H.
Brad wrote:
>
> Duane Allred (dal...@cts.com) wrote:
> : Does anyone know of any HI-FI VHS (SVHS) that has a manual gain for
> : the video signal??? That would end this once and for all...
> :
> : user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
> : darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
> : legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
The problem is, that every manufacturer has to licence the right to
produce VHS equipment with JVC as patentholder for VHS, and the license
definitly states that the AGC stage has to be sensible to Macrovision,
whose main shareholder is - guess - you are right.
Gottfried
Jeroen H. Stessen
Duane Allred wrote:
> Does anyone know of any HI-FI VHS (SVHS) that has a manual gain for
> the video signal??? That would end this once and for all...
> If a manufacturer would come out with a good deck that would allow the
> user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
> darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
> legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
You don't get it, do you ?
The manufacturers of VHS recorders DELIBERATELY make their circuits
sensitive to the Macrovision copy-protection pulses.
They are required to do so under the licence agreement with JVC
who joined forces with Macrovision to protect the video software
business. It would be illegal to NOT do so.
Feel free to build circuits to remove the copy protection pulses
but do not expect VCR manufacturers to change their circuits back !
The one Toshiba example that you mention was probably a slip-up,
or you are just lucky copying a tape that was protected by an
older version of the Macrovision pulses. The pulses have
become "meaner" since. It's a small miracle that not more TV's
are disturbed by them, which would of course be unintentional.
Can we close this discussion now ? It's all in the FAQ, I hope.
Regards,
Jeroen
Phil Moore
Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> > specifically
> > designed to defeat VHS. So record onto another tape format (which means
> > of course
> > you'll get better pictures, too, since ALL tape formats are better than
> > VHS).
> > How about a nice Beta Hi-Fi machine? Or Video 8, or Hi8? Possibly even
> > SVHS.
> >
>
> Based on my experiences, Macrovision does work on other formats. I cannot
> speak for them all, but I can speak for Hi-8 and S-VHS. I have tried copying
> to both formats, and the results have the traditional Macrovision washouts.
> Also, I have tried "Video Stabilizers," and they work sometimes but not all
> of the time.
>
> Lon
>
> --
> "Man, in order to be great, calls himself an animal." --Walter A. Henrichsen
Although I live in Australia, with PAL format TV, I have successfully
defeated
the copy protection on our Videos (I dont know if it is Macrovision). By
running
the video out through my Amiga Genlock, you get a near perfect copy. The
only
time any unstability is evident is occasionaly during scene transitions,
particulary between very light and dark scenes.
Phil
Phil Moore
John Dammeyer
"Jeroen H. Stessen" <ste...@natlab.research.philips.com> wrote:
>Duane Allred wrote:
>
>The one Toshiba example that you mention was probably a slip-up,
>or you are just lucky copying a tape that was protected by an
>older version of the Macrovision pulses. The pulses have
>become "meaner" since. It's a small miracle that not more TV's
>are disturbed by them, which would of course be unintentional.
Sorry, I'm new here to this discussion. You say some TVs are
sensitive to anti-copy pulses broadcast by the TV stations and that
the picture is, as a result much darker. Since moving out to the West
Coast after living in Europe for a few years I thought that I had just
gotten used to a better quality TV system and that my existing set, a
JVC, was just old but some programs are just downright _dark_; others
are not. Could this be the copy protection?
>
>Can we close this discussion now ? It's all in the FAQ, I hope.
Where's the FAQ?
>
Thanks,
John.
Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud,
with arrows in their backs.
Automation Artisans Inc. Ph. 604-544-4950
6468 Loganberry Place Fax 604-544-4954
Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 7E6
bic...@ionsys.com
Coming into this thread a little late, but do all rented/purchase
video tapes have protection on them? I just got my second vcr fixed
last week, and have tried dubbing a couple of purchased movies. No
problem. I also dubbed a rented movie, no problem...
Anyone?
"Eric" <em...@knoware.nl> wrote:
>sometimes using an older vcr works great.
>greetings Eric.
>Leebo <cin...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
><32a3cc0a...@news.pacbell.net>...
Rick Miller - Computer Know It All
In article <32aed84f....@news.islandnet.com>,
John Dammeyer <jo...@islandnet.com> wrote:
>"Jeroen H. Stessen" <ste...@natlab.research.philips.com> wrote:
>
>>Duane Allred wrote:
>>
>>The one Toshiba example that you mention was probably a slip-up,
>>or you are just lucky copying a tape that was protected by an
>>older version of the Macrovision pulses. The pulses have
>>become "meaner" since. It's a small miracle that not more TV's
>>are disturbed by them, which would of course be unintentional.
>
>Sorry, I'm new here to this discussion. You say some TVs are
>sensitive to anti-copy pulses broadcast by the TV stations and that
>the picture is, as a result much darker. Since moving out to the West
>Coast after living in Europe for a few years I thought that I had just
>gotten used to a better quality TV system and that my existing set, a
>JVC, was just old but some programs are just downright _dark_; others
>are not. Could this be the copy protection?
>>
>>Can we close this discussion now ? It's all in the FAQ, I hope.
>
Hmmm... my TV has a video _OUTPUT_ I wonder if it can copy macrovision
tapes... ? BTW: its a Mitsubishi 26".
-Rick
--
Computer King - Home of the Wizkid
http://www.dnh.mv.com/users/wizkid
E-Mail: wiz...@jade.mv.net Phone: 603-659-RICK
* OPINIONS SPECIFIED HEREIN ARE MY OWN. IF YOU DON'T LIKE 'EM, TOUGH! *
Gavin Chester
Jeroen H. Stessen wrote:
>
> Duane Allred wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of any HI-FI VHS (SVHS) that has a manual gain for
> > the video signal??? That would end this once and for all...
> > If a manufacturer would come out with a good deck that would allow the
> > user to manually set the VIDEO GAIN (to make the picture lighter or
> > darker as the end user desires ;-)) I think that would totally and
> > legally rid Macrovision for all of us!!!
>
> You don't get it, do you ?
>
> The manufacturers of VHS recorders DELIBERATELY make their circuits
> sensitive to the Macrovision copy-protection pulses.
> They are required to do so under the licence agreement with JVC
> who joined forces with Macrovision to protect the video software
> business. It would be illegal to NOT do so.
> Regards,
> Jeroen
It's nothing to do with manufacturers and licensing.
The reason that more videos today are susceptable is that the automatic
gain circuits in them are more sensative to changes. Earlier models
could not respond fast enough to the signal ampitude change and so just
averages it out and in the process lost the sudden copy protection blip.
Even earlier ones didn't have the AGC circuit and recorded the video
signal at a set level regardless.
It's not a case of making them sensative to macrovision, it's a case of
making them sensative to adapt to varying TV conditions in various
locations, an aerial in the city is likely to get a stronger signal than
on in a remote mountain village. This is why AGC's were introduced. As
a side effect it made macrovision possible as it could fool the AGC.
Same reason some TV's are susceptable, as the AGC in the amplifier stage
gets misled and boosts or cuts the signal accordingly.
Jeroen Stessen
John Dammeyer wrote:
> Sorry, I'm new here to this discussion. You say some TVs are
> sensitive to anti-copy pulses broadcast by the TV stations and that
> the picture is, as a result much darker.
No, I didn't say that. I said that some TV's may be disturbed,
and I was thinking about disturbance of the horizontal sync.
After all, Macrovision is making a very NON-standard signal.
> Since moving out to the West
> Coast after living in Europe for a few years I thought that I had just
> gotten used to a better quality TV system and that my existing set, a
> JVC, was just old but some programs are just downright _dark_; others
> are not. Could this be the copy protection?
No, of course not, the copy protection is on pre-recorded VHS
tapes, not on broadcast programs (yet) !
Could be a clamping problem, possibly an error at the source.
> Where's the FAQ?
I don't know the URL, but it shows up every now and then,
some other posters have referred to it.
Why not try one of the search engines on it ?
Cheers,
Jeroen (from home)
ExZoN
In article <58mm59$f...@maggie.ionsys.com>, bic...@ionsys.com says...
>Coming into this thread a little late, but do all rented/purchase
>video tapes have protection on them? I just got my second vcr fixed
>last week, and have tried dubbing a couple of purchased movies. No
>problem. I also dubbed a rented movie, no problem...
>
//
Please...We have discussed this for all too long... No good idea
to start over again...If you´re interested, please retrieve the
former posts (maybe there is a FAQ by now?) and read those..
Regards
/ExZoN\
joll...@mc.net
On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Phil Moore wrote:
> Lon D. Gowen, Ph.D. wrote:
> >=20
> > colinmc wrote:
> > >
> > > x-no-archive: yes
> > > Bud Burroughs wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <32A1AA...@ghgcorp.com>, jack wright <jwwright@ghgco=
rp.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > a lot of trouble to get a movie that you might never watch. buy t=
he tape.
> > > > > by the way, is the copy protection on the movie channels too?
> > > > Some newer cable boxes have built-in Macrovision encoders which can=
be
> > > > selectively turned off if the user pays an additional fee for tapin=
g
> > > > rights. Just one more way for the cable companies to squeeze a few =
more
> > > > bucks out of us!
> > >
> > > True indeed, but the solution is to ditch VHS. Macrovision is
> > > specifically
> > > designed to defeat VHS. So record onto another tape format (which me=
ans
> > > of course
> > > you'll get better pictures, too, since ALL tape formats are better th=
an
> > > VHS).
> > > How about a nice Beta Hi-Fi machine? Or Video 8, or Hi8? Possibly e=
ven
> > > SVHS.
> > >
> > > __=AC___________=AC=AC___=AC=AC__=AC______=AC___________ Colin M=
cCormick
> >=20
> > Based on my experiences, Macrovision does work on other formats. I can=
not
> > speak for them all, but I can speak for Hi-8 and S-VHS. I have tried c=
opying
> > to both formats, and the results have the traditional Macrovision washo=
uts.
> > Also, I have tried "Video Stabilizers," and they work sometimes but not=
all
> > of the time.
> >=20
> > Lon
> >=20
> > --
> > "Man, in order to be great, calls himself an animal." --Walter A. Henri=
chsen
>=20
> Although I live in Australia, with PAL format TV, I have successfully
> defeated
> the copy protection on our Videos (I dont know if it is Macrovision). By
> running
> the video out through my Amiga Genlock, you get a near perfect copy. The
> only
> time any unstability is evident is occasionaly during scene transitions,=
=20
> particulary between very light and dark scenes.
>=20
> Phil
>=20
>=20
Yes, a friend of mine is an independent videographer, producer ect. and
found that a genlock will defeat Macrovision. There is another way to
defeat Macrovision, turn the AGC control down all the way on the RECORDING
vcr. Macrovision (from what I understand) distorts the brightness level.
Most TV agc controls react too slowly to be effected by Macrovision. Vcrs
on the other hand react quicker and are therefore unable to copy a tape
reliably. Thus, if you turn down the AGC, you can solve the problem. In
machines with fixed resistors, the resistance must be opened or shunted,
depending on the design. =20
Tim
Jeroen Stessen
Gavin Chester wrote:
> It's nothing to do with manufacturers and licensing.
>
> The reason that more videos today are susceptable is that the automatic
> gain circuits in them are more sensative to changes. Earlier models
> could not respond fast enough to the signal ampitude change and so just
> averages it out and in the process lost the sudden copy protection blip.
I disagree, I do believe that the video AGC was deliberately made more
sensitive in order to "improve" the anti-copy protection.
> Even earlier ones didn't have the AGC circuit and recorded the video
> signal at a set level regardless.
That may be true for old models, later VCRs all have the video-AGC.
> It's not a case of making them sensative to macrovision, it's a case of
> making them sensative to adapt to varying TV conditions in various
> locations, an aerial in the city is likely to get a stronger signal than
> on in a remote mountain village. This is why AGC's were introduced. As
> a side effect it made macrovision possible as it could fool the AGC.
I see that there may be a mis-understanding here: there are two kinds of
AGC,
==========================
1. RF-AGC which compensates for different signal strength at the aerial,
it measures RF amplitude and is *not* sensitive to video contents
because with negative modulation the sync is the peak and is
constant,
this AGC will not work on CVBS (baseband video) inputs.
2. Video-AGC which normalizes baseband signals which enter *after* the
tuner-IF. A.o. this compensates for different signal strengths when
you connect two VCRs together. It measures peak-white, so it *is*
sensitive to video content and thus to the Macrovision pulses.
And: a television does NOT have a video-AGC, unless you want to call
the beam current limiter circuits an AGC.
(Exception: the Secam-L system with positive modulation requires an
RF-AGC which measures peak-white instead of peak-sync.)
> Same reason some TV's are susceptable, as the AGC in the amplifier stage
> gets misled and boosts or cuts the signal accordingly.
No, the RF-AGC does not see the peak-white of the anti-copy pulses.
If you connect the VCR to the TV via the CVBS (baseband) input, then
the RF-AGC is not even in the path. Still, it may be disturbed.
But the sync separator may see the extra inserted Hsync pulses, and
due to the phase disturbance the video clamping may be disturbed too.
Hope I've cleared this up a little more. (Did I ???)
Have had some sleepless nights over Macrovision too ...
Regards,
Jeroen
Scott
Ok,
Here's my stupid, low-tech method. I've only done it a few times with
promotional, boating product tapes - but I don't see why it wouldn't
work with movies. Play the movie on your vcr, set up your Hi8mm video
camera on a tripod, zoom in to the screen size, crank up the volume and
turn out the lights!
Yes, I know it sounds stupid, but you would be suprised at the level
of quality!
- Scott
Tony Castillo
Gavin Chester <Gavin_J...@SBPHRD.COM> wrote:
>I've got a a schematic I can email anyone who is interested.
> Gavin_J...@sbphrd.com IRC: ChaosMan
> Coffee without the caffeine is like sex without the costumes. -
>DuckMan
> Opinions expressed in this post are mine alone, not my employers.
Please email it to me...
thanks,
tony
Brad
Scott (ssi...@idsonline.com) wrote:
: Ok,
Actually doing the same thing in a movie theater is one of the standard
methods of getting pirate versions of movies on video before the offical
release. Pro-Pirates can often pay someone or everyone in the projection
room to set up a vid camera, or pay off a min-wage usher to just ignore
the guy with a vid-cam on a tripod in the theater.
ID4 on video was floating around the office where I work about a month
before it was offically released. One person said the only difference he
saw was that it sound liked it was filmed before a live studio audience.
Personally I think that Macrovision will be a good short sale (if it is a
publically traded firm) in a few years once the studios realize that the
pirates can always afford to build, buy or steal a way around copy
protection, and that they only really efect it has is to decrease sales of
legit video tapes as no one wants to buy a video that looks like crap on
many TV's.
One question:
If studios have to put: This movie has been modified from it original
version, it has been formatted to fit your screen, on videos, shouldn't
they also have to put that it has Macrovision. They addition of white
horizonta lines, and flickering is a modification from the orginal version
is it not?
Greg
> If studios have to put: This movie has been modified from it original
> version, it has been formatted to fit your screen, on videos, shouldn't
> they also have to put that it has Macrovision. They addition of white
> horizonta lines, and flickering is a modification from the orginal
version
> is it not?
The difference is that the artifacts some people get from Macrovision is
not inherent to the process itself and is not modification of the movie
itself.