Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.

[DaveC]

I need to replace a cable (16-conductor, 28-ish awg, stranded, shielded) on
an industrial machine. It’s used to connet a hand controller (small box
with rotary encoder and pushbuttons) to the main control panel.

The original is a coiled (a la telephone handset) but the replacement
doesn’t need to be. During use the cable will be splashed with lubricating
oil (think dino motor oil) so in the short-term (5 years) it needs to be
resistant to this.

I found this:

http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/multi_core/28awg/

which is cable for the music-concert industry (audio mixers and such).

I can’t find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How
resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil?

Thanks.

[N_Cook]

Find some silicone rubber sleeving of the right sort of internal diameter.
With a goodly amount of talcum powder , it should be possible to cover
some standard cable, using a "peristaltic" or snake-motion sort of
action, pushing and pulling, to feed it over the core cabling.

[DaveC]

> Find some silicone rubber sleeving of the right sort of internal diameter.
> With a goodly amount of talcum powder , it should be possible to cover
> some standard cable, using a "peristaltic" or snake-motion sort of
> action, pushing and pulling, to feed it over the core cabling.

Are you saying that the PVC won’t hold up to dino oils?

[Rich.]

"DaveC" <n...@home.cow> wrote in message
news:0001HW.1BF27C0D0...@news.eternal-september.org...

PVC jacketed cables are oil resistant.

[DaveC]

> You need to find a manufacturer's data sheet to be sure.

http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/multi_core/28awg/

[Glen Walpert]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 14:14:18 -0800, DaveC wrote:

>> You need to find a manufacturer's data sheet to be sure.
>
> http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/multi_core/28awg/

No useful info on oil resistance there.

The oil resistance of PVC is widely variable, depending on the
plasticisers used and possibly other factors, but is generally quite
poor. I have never seen any cable rated as oil resistant with a PVC
jacket. I have seen PVC swell, lose strength and disintegrate from
exposure to oil. A search on the term 'oil resistant cable' should turn
up something more likely to hold up well under oil exposure, at a higher
cost.

[M Philbrook]

In article <5642a65e$0$51816$b1db1813$19ac...@news.astraweb.com>,
nos...@null.void says...

silicone

Jamie

[rickman]

I don't know what "dino" oils are, but PVC seems to be resistant to many
things.

http://www.plasticsintl.com/plastics_chemical_resistence_chart.html

Looks like there is more than one type of PVC. Why this particular
cable company? I wouldn't think the music industry has much in common
with machine tools. Why not use a cable from one of the cable companies
where they specify it for industrial use around oils?

http://www.igus.com/wpck/15050/overview_motorcables?C=US&L=en

http://www.lappusa.com/10150description.htm

If this cable will be continually bent and moved, don't you need a
special type of cable for that? I would contact one of the cable
manufacturers and find out what they recommend.

--

Rick

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:49:21 -0500, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> Gave us:

>I don't know what "dino" oils are, but PVC seems to be resistant to many
>things.

Yeah, right. That's why NASA uses it exactly NOWHERE.

The same is true of the makers of nuclear power facilities.

Sometimes you show a true lack of knowledge and experience.

You remind me of Donald Trump.

[DaveC]

> > Are you saying that the PVC won’t hold up to dino oils?
>
> I don't know what "dino" oils are,

from crude oil source, as opposed to synthetics

> but PVC seems to be resistant to many
> things.
>
> http://www.plasticsintl.com/plastics_chemical_resistence_chart.html

> Looks like there is more than one type of PVC. Why this particular
> cable company? I wouldn't think the music industry has much in common
> with machine tools.

The cable is available by-the-foot (I need 12 ft total). The local
distributor emailed the Japanese manufacturer who confirmed that they tested
this PVC cable with gasoline which flushed out the particular plasticizers
and hardened the remaining PVC. So no-go.

> Why not use a cable from one of the cable companies
> where they specify it for industrial use around oils?
>
> http://www.igus.com/wpck/15050/overview_motorcables?C=US&L=en
>
> http://www.lappusa.com/10150description.htm

Specs look good, but minimum order is roll of 100 ft. I might be able to sell
remainder on e-Flea but then again, maybe not. Might get mfgr. to sample.
We’ll see…

igus.com have a really nice parameter search page:

http://www.igus.com/wpck/7101/CF_Productfinder_US

This one looks good:

http://www.igus.com/iPro/iPro_01_0013_0008_USen.htm?ArtNr=CF10.01.18&c=US&l=en

> If this cable will be continually bent and moved, don't you need a
> special type of cable for that? I would contact one of the cable
> manufacturers and find out what they recommend.

It will be used occasionally--it’s a convenience (occasional-use) hand
control box.

Have requested samples from those that look good.

Thanks.

[DaveC]

> silicone
> Jamie

Suppliers of such cables?

[rickman]

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is a question that a
simple google search should give good results for. Have you tried
googling for silicone and the other parameters you require?

--

Rick

[M Philbrook]

In article <0001HW.1BF918E60...@news.eternal-
september.org>, n...@home.cow says...

>
> > silicone
> > Jamie
>
> Suppliers of such cables?

Really?

http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=ce-silicone-insulated-hook-
up-wire

So some leg work..

If you want a large quanity I can hook you up but be
prepaired to pay the piper.

jamie

[M Philbrook]

In article <0001HW.1BF918E60...@news.eternal-
september.org>, n...@home.cow says...
>

> > silicone
> > Jamie
>
> Suppliers of such cables?

Oh that's right, you did say cable

http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=ul-4535-silicone-cable

jamie

[legg]

Try Alpha Wire 'Xtra-Guard' 'High-Flex'. They will pre-cut.
UL AWM Styles 2587, 2661, 20234. All oil-resistant PVC.

RL

[indyr...@eti.com]

I have forty years experience in designing and building machine tool,
robotic and automations systems. Whenever I require a cable that might be
exposed to oil or coolant contamination, or will encounter high rates of
flexing I only specify Olflex. It's more expensive than most, but a lot
less expensive than failure and replacement.

[DaveC]

16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single
shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. I’ve had
no luck. I’m not saying one doesn’t exit, but it’s not easy to find.

OK, people–ready, set, GO!

Thanks.

[DaveC]

> 16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single
> shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. I’ve had
> no luck. I’m not saying one doesn’t exit, but it’s not easy to find.

And cut to order (no 100 ft rolls, please–I need only 12 feet).

Thanks.

[DaveC]

I appreciate that this is, enviably, wonderful cable. But it comes in minimum
size of 20 awg. If only it met all my requirements.

My need is for a hand-controller (think Atari joystick)–carrying milliamps.
20 awg is overkill at the expense of weight, diameter, and (arguably) greater
flexibility.

Thanks.

[JC]

Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to
cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical
and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be
an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk.

[rickman]

On 11/17/2015 11:33 PM, DaveC wrote:

I can get you everything but the 12 foot section, and from multiple
sources. There are lots of cables that fit your requirements. It will
be hard to find such a short length of a specialized cable. You should
look for a local supplier. I used to work in a shop where they sold all
manner of wires and tubing in short lengths... but then again that place
went out of business a long time ago.

--

Rick

[legg]

The Alpha products go down to 26AWG ~ typical of com cables, with
twisted pair varieties. It's kind of difficult to determine the guages
in the Olflex info, due to notation method in product tables, but I'm
pretty sure they'll offer the same thing. By the way, PVC=Vinyl, oil
and chemical resistant or otherwise.

RL

[DaveC]

> By the way, PVC=Vinyl, oil
> and chemical resistant or otherwise.
>
> RL

Insulation is rarely PVC-only––that would be plumbing pipe. It’s the
plasticizers mixed with the PVC that make it flexible and may not be
oil-resistant. Wash that in a petroleum product and the plasticizers give up
the ghost.

[DaveC]

> Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to
> cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical
> and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be
> an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk.

That’s a great idea. I’ll check it out.

Thanks.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:41:54 -0800, DaveC <n...@home.cow> Gave us:

Shrinking the right size choice can be flexible, but also then becomes
THICKER, as in a better armor against abrasion.

[JC]

Good point, choose the diameter carefully depending on whether you
intend to shrink it or not.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:19:42 -0500, JC <Chipbee4...@yahoo.com> Gave
us:

Depending on whether you want the item you are shrinking over to be
grasped tightly by the shrink or not.

I have shrank tubing over a ferrite rod and noticed that a poor choice
results in a bit of magnetostriction. I choose one that fully shrinks
but still does not quite 'grasp' the rod. I get multiple benefits. No
more magnetostriction and a thicker spacing from the rod to my
subsequent winding, resulting in less parasitic capacitance and a better
antenna/inductor/transformer, etc.

[legg]

The spec sheet for either Alpha or Lapp products will list the degree
of resistance to oil or chemicals. I don't know what you go by, but
gasoline and other solvents don't tend to hang around - they may
sometimes be intentionally used in cleaning, but only under 'user
beware' conditions. Both mfrs sell on-line. Alpha will cut.

Mogami has made superior products for a long time before being
purchased by OKI. I doubt quality has suffered, but they do not and
have never addressed industrial environmental requirements - that's
not their market.

Get off the pot.

RL

[MJC]

In article <punp4bd0sg9d573f6...@4ax.com>,
le...@nospam.magma.ca says...

> The spec sheet for either Alpha or Lapp products will list the degree
> of resistance to oil or chemicals. I don't know what you go by, but
> gasoline and other solvents don't tend to hang around - they may
> sometimes be intentionally used in cleaning, but only under 'user
> beware' conditions. Both mfrs sell on-line. Alpha will cut.

Good point... The ends of the shrink shroud will have to be protected to
ensure that the oil does not get inside. Otherwise it will "hang
around" doing its worst!

Mike.

[DaveC]

> Good point... The ends of the shrink shroud will have to be protected to
> ensure that the oil does not get inside. Otherwise it will "hang
> around" doing its worst!
>
> Mike.

I will put RTV in the end of the shrink and apply heat. Shrink-n-seal. All
this will be well inside the multipin connector so will be clamped with
strain relief.

Thanks.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:25:33 -0800, DaveC <n...@home.cow> Gave us:

No. Do not do that. RTV detaches with a sneeze.

Use "lined" shrink tubing for the cable end dress..

A shorter piece, and when heated, it exudes a sealant internally.

One way to source it is to search for "HV heat shrink". It is usually
of the lined variety.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 16:39:21 -0500, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> Gave us:

Jamie is an idiot. Silicone wires are typically for HV. They are
also typically of the single variety, as in not a bundle of conductors
for use in making a cable.

HV ganged together usually exhibits corona issues, and is therefore
not often done, so finding single silicone wires might be easy, but
fashioning lightweight cables from it is not very feasible.

Philbrook is an electrical buffoon.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 20:33:57 -0800, DaveC <n...@home.cow> Gave us:

Use what you have and place kynar or other heat shrink over it.

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:46:35 -0500, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
<DL...@DecadentLinuxUser.org> Gave us:

https://www.google.com/search?q=adhesive+lined+heat+shrink+tubing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[DaveC]

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote

> Use "lined" shrink tubing for the cable end dress..

OK, thanks. Will do.

[DaveC]

FYI, Alpha Cable sampled me the cable in the length I need. Great!

[DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:34:05 -0800, DaveC <n...@home.cow> Gave us:

>FYI, Alpha Cable sampled me the cable in the length I need. Great!

Did they also sample you a couple of 6 inch pieces with adhesive
lining? You were gonna seal up the ends, remember?