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practical lubricity
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William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 11:30:07 AM11/13/11
to
The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
much friction, both static and moving.
I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
lithium grease, but... Nah.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land
holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
much friction, both static and moving.
I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
lithium grease, but... Nah.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
--
"We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
questions." -- Edwin Land
Jeff Liebermann
Nov 13, 2011, 11:55:12 AM11/13/11
to
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
>holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>much friction, both static and moving.
>
>I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>lithium grease, but... Nah.
>
>Any suggestions?
Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
>holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>much friction, both static and moving.
>
>I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>lithium grease, but... Nah.
>
>Any suggestions?
friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
et...@whidbey.com
Nov 13, 2011, 12:09:18 PM11/13/11
to
>The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
>holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>much friction, both static and moving.
>
>I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>lithium grease, but... Nah.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance.
I use this stuff for locks and clockwork indicators called "TRI-FLOW".
>holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>much friction, both static and moving.
>
>I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>lithium grease, but... Nah.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance.
I know that Teflon oils seem to be all hype but the stuff actually
works better than any other oil I've used for locks. Doesn't gum up
the locks and penetrates well. Maybe it will also help with the static
friction problem you have. Stiction is a problem with some mechanical
measuring instruments I use in the machine shop because they get oil
on them and gum up. Clock oil doesn't work as well as Tri-Flow does
for these tools. I think it's because the solvent in the stuff allows
it to penetrate better and the residue left behind isn't very tacky.
Eric
William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 12:43:07 PM11/13/11
to
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:hftvb7pe2op0f3a05...@4ax.com...
One can imagine a thixotropic lubricant -- though whether any exists...
news:hftvb7pe2op0f3a05...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
It
>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
too
>> much friction, both static and moving.
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
It
>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
too
>> much friction, both static and moving.
>> 've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought
of
of
>> ithium grease, but... Nah.
>> Any suggestions?
> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
Interesting thought.
>> Any suggestions?
> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
One can imagine a thixotropic lubricant -- though whether any exists...
William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 12:45:22 PM11/13/11
to
> I use this stuff for locks and clockwork indicators called "TRI-FLOW".
> I know that Teflon oils seem to be all hype but the stuff actually
> works better than any other oil I've used for locks. Doesn't gum up
> the locks and penetrates well. Maybe it will also help with the static
> friction problem you have. Stiction is a problem with some mechanical
> measuring instruments I use in the machine shop because they get oil
> on them and gum up. Clock oil doesn't work as well as Tri-Flow does
> for these tools. I think it's because the solvent in the stuff allows
> it to penetrate better and the residue left behind isn't very tacky.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look for it.
> I know that Teflon oils seem to be all hype but the stuff actually
> works better than any other oil I've used for locks. Doesn't gum up
> the locks and penetrates well. Maybe it will also help with the static
> friction problem you have. Stiction is a problem with some mechanical
> measuring instruments I use in the machine shop because they get oil
> on them and gum up. Clock oil doesn't work as well as Tri-Flow does
> for these tools. I think it's because the solvent in the stuff allows
> it to penetrate better and the residue left behind isn't very tacky.
By the way, I neglected to mention that the ball-and-socket is plastic, with
a metal band in the socket.
Jeff Liebermann
Nov 13, 2011, 1:00:02 PM11/13/11
to
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 09:43:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid>
It won't work because you can't maintain much pressure on the fluid
with thin plastic parts. Eventually, the plastic will creep, the
pressure will be relieved, the lubricants viscosity drops, and your
map display falls over.
I've used talcum powder for various unconventional lubricating
applications. Out of the bottle, the particles are rounded. However,
pressure is applied, they flatten, creating addition friction. When
applied to your ball and socket, it will initially act as a roller
lube. When you apply pressure, it almost becomes an abrasive (without
defacing the plastic surface. The problem is that there's no
resiliance. Once you clamp down on the powder, it's permanent. If
you miss, and have to move it later, you might as well tear it apart
and apply a fresh load of talcum powder. The right stuff might be
tiny rubber balls, but I don't know where to get those (or make them).
Maybe try some pink eraser dust or shavings.
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:hftvb7pe2op0f3a05...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
>> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
>It
>>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
>too
>>> much friction, both static and moving.
>
>>> 've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought
>of
>>> ithium grease, but... Nah.
>>> Any suggestions?
>
>> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
>> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
>> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
>> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
>> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
>Interesting thought.
>One can imagine a thixotropic lubricant -- though whether any exists...
I think you mean something like corn starch.
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:hftvb7pe2op0f3a05...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
>> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
>It
>>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
>too
>>> much friction, both static and moving.
>
>>> 've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought
>of
>>> ithium grease, but... Nah.
>>> Any suggestions?
>
>> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
>> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
>> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
>> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
>> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
>Interesting thought.
>One can imagine a thixotropic lubricant -- though whether any exists...
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid>
It won't work because you can't maintain much pressure on the fluid
with thin plastic parts. Eventually, the plastic will creep, the
pressure will be relieved, the lubricants viscosity drops, and your
map display falls over.
I've used talcum powder for various unconventional lubricating
applications. Out of the bottle, the particles are rounded. However,
pressure is applied, they flatten, creating addition friction. When
applied to your ball and socket, it will initially act as a roller
lube. When you apply pressure, it almost becomes an abrasive (without
defacing the plastic surface. The problem is that there's no
resiliance. Once you clamp down on the powder, it's permanent. If
you miss, and have to move it later, you might as well tear it apart
and apply a fresh load of talcum powder. The right stuff might be
tiny rubber balls, but I don't know where to get those (or make them).
Maybe try some pink eraser dust or shavings.
et...@whidbey.com
Nov 13, 2011, 4:38:13 PM11/13/11
to
stuff may attack the plastic. I assumed metal parts. There is some
other stuff I use on rubber parts, like the window gaskets in my car
and truck. It's a dry lube made by, I think, Borden. Anyway it's some
type of white looking powder suspended or dissolved in some type of
fast drying liquid or solvent and comes in a spray can. I sprayed the
stuff on the rubber gaskets and now the windows go up and down much
easier. Of course it also may attack the plastic.
Eric
William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 5:05:10 PM11/13/11
to
>> By the way, I neglected to mention that the ball-and-socket is plastic,
>> with a metal band in the socket.
> Then I'd be careful using my suggestion because the solvent in the
> stuff may attack the plastic. I assumed metal parts. There is some
> other stuff I use on rubber parts, like the window gaskets in my car
> and truck. It's a dry lube made by, I think, Borden. Anyway it's some
> type of white looking powder suspended or dissolved in some type of
> fast drying liquid or solvent and comes in a spray can. I sprayed the
> stuff on the rubber gaskets and now the windows go up and down much
> easier. Of course it also may attack the plastic.
"If it's Borden... it's got to be good."
>> with a metal band in the socket.
> Then I'd be careful using my suggestion because the solvent in the
> stuff may attack the plastic. I assumed metal parts. There is some
> other stuff I use on rubber parts, like the window gaskets in my car
> and truck. It's a dry lube made by, I think, Borden. Anyway it's some
> type of white looking powder suspended or dissolved in some type of
> fast drying liquid or solvent and comes in a spray can. I sprayed the
> stuff on the rubber gaskets and now the windows go up and down much
> easier. Of course it also may attack the plastic.
I've also thought of using graphite powder.
mike
Nov 13, 2011, 5:46:29 PM11/13/11
to
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>> much friction, both static and moving.
>>
>> I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>> lithium grease, but... Nah.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
>
What he said...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:30:07 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint. It
>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply too
>> much friction, both static and moving.
>>
>> I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought of
>> lithium grease, but... Nah.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>
> Nope. If you do find a suitable lubricant, there won't be enough
> friction to hold it in place when the car bounces down the road. I
> think taking the ball and socket apart, and cleaning or polishing the
> mechanism, will probably work better. If you must lubricate the
> plastic, I suggest something dry, such as talcum powder.
>
Assume you've tried the obvious technique of applying rotation to the
ball joint while implementating the desired translation?
William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 6:16:00 PM11/13/11
to
"mike" <spa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j9phcd$7b1$1...@dont-email.me...
> Assume you've tried the obvious technique of applying rotation
> to the ball joint while implementating the desired translation?
Of course. The socket is designed for tightness at the expense of ease of
movement.
news:j9phcd$7b1$1...@dont-email.me...
> Assume you've tried the obvious technique of applying rotation
> to the ball joint while implementating the desired translation?
movement.
mike
Nov 13, 2011, 6:45:30 PM11/13/11
to
William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "mike" <spa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j9phcd$7b1$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> Assume you've tried the obvious technique of applying rotation
>> to the ball joint while implementing the desired translation?
> "mike" <spa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j9phcd$7b1$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> Assume you've tried the obvious technique of applying rotation
>
> Of course. The socket is designed for tightness at the expense of ease of
> movement.
>
>
And you want to defeat that design objective that keeps the device
> Of course. The socket is designed for tightness at the expense of ease of
> movement.
>
>
stable under vibration.
William Sommerwerck
Nov 13, 2011, 6:51:05 PM11/13/11
to
"mike" <spa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j9pkr2$qrq$3...@dont-email.me...
smoothly will necessarily cause it to change position under normal use. My
Focus does not vibrate, except on rough road.
N_Cook
Nov 14, 2011, 3:56:02 AM11/14/11
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j9orah$i20$1...@dont-email.me...
I would try locksmith's dry lubricant - ground graphite or talcum powder ,
at least no solvents going to attack the plastic
news:j9orah$i20$1...@dont-email.me...
at least no solvents going to attack the plastic
Phil Hobbs
Nov 14, 2011, 12:23:59 PM11/14/11
to
chalk dust.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
William Sommerwerck
Nov 14, 2011, 4:45:15 PM11/14/11
to
> The old slide rule trick is to loosen with graphite
> and tighten with chalk dust.
I used to carry a mini tube of Vaseline to lube my slide rule.
> and tighten with chalk dust.
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