Oil over fill my lawn mower, help
Mike Burch
Naiming Shen wrote:
> Hi,
> This may not be the right group to ask this lawn mower
> question, but I can't see to find the right newsgroup using the
> internet search engineer, so I'm lucky if someone in this group
> have knowledge of this.
> I have a Sears Craftsman lawn mower, power propelled and
> rotary type with 5.3 horsepower. I accidentally over fill the oil
> during the engineer oil change. Now if I pull the string to start,
> the engineer will be on for just a couple of seonds and shuts off.
> Even after I drained the oil level to below the limit line now, it
> still does the same(shuts off right after it starts).
> Does any one know the reason of this? is there anything I
> can do myself to correct this? Thanks in advance.
> Please send response to the email address of ns...@mci.net.
You are correct in this not being the right group however try changing
the spark plug. If a plug gets oil fouled the engine will not run
nicely. Good luck.. Mike
Naiming Shen
Sing Kwan
Also check the air filter if it is oilly or dirty.
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Sam Goldwasser
How much have you tried? You still may just have some oil where it shouldn't
be and repeated attempts will eventually get it going. How long does it
run? How much overfilled was it? Could this problem be coincidental?
See the FAQ and expect to read replies on this group - not via private email!
--- sam : Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Latest Sam stuff: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/
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http://www.misty.com/~don/lasersam.html
Naiming Shen
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>
> How much have you tried? You still may just have some oil where it shouldn't
> be and repeated attempts will eventually get it going. How long does it
> run? How much overfilled was it? Could this problem be coincidental?
>
> See the FAQ and expect to read replies on this group - not via private email!
I have pulled the rope a dozen times. When I push the primer a couple
of times, I can start it for a couple of seconds. It looks like somehow
the gas does not get into it. I don't know how the internal system
works, and how the oil possiblly get into say the carburetor. I had
lots of overfill, the oil line I found was way over the full mark.
I doubt it's coincidental.
I read the FAQ before I posted on this group. But I could not find
the answer. Especially it always say "DO NOT OVERFILL", but never
anyone mentioned what will happen if overfill, and the way to clean
it.
Thanks a lot for the responses.
PS. I took out the spark plug, it did not look like very oilly. Since
it starts and last for a couple of seconds, can this still be the
plug?
Jim Lagerkvist
Naiming Shen wrote:
>
> Hi,
> This may not be the right group to ask this lawn mower
> question, but I can't see to find the right newsgroup using the
> internet search engineer, so I'm lucky if someone in this group
> have knowledge of this.
> I have a Sears Craftsman lawn mower, power propelled and
> rotary type with 5.3 horsepower. I accidentally over fill the oil
> during the engineer oil change. Now if I pull the string to start,
> the engineer will be on for just a couple of seonds and shuts off.
> Even after I drained the oil level to below the limit line now, it
> still does the same(shuts off right after it starts).
> Does any one know the reason of this? is there anything I
> can do myself to correct this? Thanks in advance.
First thing I'd do is remove the float bowl and see what's inside.
If there's anything other than gas, drain the gas tank.
remove x to reply
On Fri, 29 May 1998 02:53:02 GMT, Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> wrote:
>Hi,
> This may not be the right group to ask this lawn mower
>question, but I can't see to find the right newsgroup using the
>internet search engineer, so I'm lucky if someone in this group
>have knowledge of this.
> I have a Sears Craftsman lawn mower, power propelled and
>rotary type with 5.3 horsepower. I accidentally over fill the oil
>during the engineer oil change. Now if I pull the string to start,
>the engineer will be on for just a couple of seonds and shuts off.
>Even after I drained the oil level to below the limit line now, it
>still does the same(shuts off right after it starts).
> Does any one know the reason of this? is there anything I
>can do myself to correct this? Thanks in advance.
> Please send response to the email address of ns...@mci.net.
You might try this: Pull the spark plug, clean the plug by spraying
the plug and if really fouled, brush or replace, and spray a short
burst of starting fluid or even lighter fluid - "Zippo" or
"Ronson"-type, NOT charcoal or barbecue type - into the combustion
chamber (in the hole the plug screws into), and quickly, but carefully
replace the plug - finger tight and ONLY quarter turn with wrench as
you DO NOT need to torque the plug!! - reconnect plug wire and start
the motor. It will help burn any misplaced oil. I would also
recommend replacing the fuel filter, and CAREFULLY draining the gas
tank and replacing the old gas with new gas unless the above solves
the problem.
Paul Grammens
Naiming Shen wrote:
>
> I have pulled the rope a dozen times. When I push the primer a couple
> of times, I can start it for a couple of seconds. It looks like somehow
> the gas does not get into it. I don't know how the internal system
> works, and how the oil possiblly get into say the carburetor. I had
> lots of overfill, the oil line I found was way over the full mark.
> I doubt it's coincidental.
>
I think the oil overfill is coincidental. The fact that the engine
starts after being primed and then dies indicates fuel starvation.
This commonly happens in the spring, when the mower has been sitting all
winter. A couple of typical problems are gum in the carburator from gas
evaporating and oxidizing, water in the gas tank from condensation, and
the "fuel pump" flap valves sticking.
I don't know what type this lawnmower is, some have the carburator
bolted directly to the tank, others have a gravity feed tank with a
shutoff valve.
The first type uses the manifold vacuum pulses acting on a diaphram to
pump gas up from the tank into a small carburator bowl. The excess just
flows back into the tank. The valves are just little flaps of the
rubberized fabric gasket. They tend to stick closed if the carb gums up.
Sometimes they can be freed by filling the tank to the very top, so that
gas gets to them an loosens the gum. Try that, and use some starting
fluid or similiar to keep the engine running for a while to help break
those flaps free. Also keep the choke on full. Try that a few times,
because if it doesn't work you have to take the carburator apart and
clean it. Get a new gasket at the hardware store, (take the old gasket
in for comparison) and spray it clean with choke cleaner.
The second type can get all gummed up if the gas is left on all winter.
You have to take the carb apart and clean it with choke cleaner and a
needle. Try to get all the passages clean. I just bought a real nice
mower cheap because it wouldn't run- it WOULD start, if starting fluid
was sprayed in, but would die.
> I read the FAQ before I posted on this group. But I could not find
> the answer. Especially it always say "DO NOT OVERFILL", but never
> anyone mentioned what will happen if overfill, and the way to clean
> it.
If it is too full, oil gets into the cylinder and fouls the plug.
>
> PS. I took out the spark plug, it did not look like very oilly. Since
> it starts and last for a couple of seconds, can this still be the
> plug?
Your instinct is good. No oil, no foul... it is something else. Fuel
starvation is most likely, since you can get it to start with the
primer. That indicates you have spark and compression.
-Paul
Sam Goldwasser
My guess would be there is still oil in the carburetor. I suspect eventually
you could get it going without flushing the carburetor or disassembling and
cleaning it but that may be the best course of action.
--- sam : Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Latest Sam stuff: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/
Lasers: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
http://www.misty.com/~don/lasersam.html
In article <356EC122...@mci.net> Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> writes:
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>
> How much have you tried? You still may just have some oil where it shouldn't
> be and repeated attempts will eventually get it going. How long does it
> run? How much overfilled was it? Could this problem be coincidental?
>
> See the FAQ and expect to read replies on this group - not via private email!
I have pulled the rope a dozen times. When I push the primer a couple
of times, I can start it for a couple of seconds. It looks like somehow
the gas does not get into it. I don't know how the internal system
works, and how the oil possiblly get into say the carburetor. I had
lots of overfill, the oil line I found was way over the full mark.
I doubt it's coincidental.
I read the FAQ before I posted on this group. But I could not find
the answer. Especially it always say "DO NOT OVERFILL", but never
anyone mentioned what will happen if overfill, and the way to clean
it.
Thanks a lot for the responses.
PS. I took out the spark plug, it did not look like very oilly. Since
it starts and last for a couple of seconds, can this still be the
plug?
>
> --- sam : Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
> Latest Sam stuff: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/
> Lasers: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
> http://www.misty.com/~don/lasersam.html
>
> In article <356E2447...@mci.net> Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> writes:
>
Loren Schaeffler
cause a problem it would be blown into the intake manifold and smoke to
beat hell. Most likely varnish in the carb due to fuel sitting in it too
long. Keep trying to keep it running with the primer. It may come out of
it on its own. Also fuel with alcohol causes problems. The alcohol will
separate from the gasoline in time. Loren.....
--
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James Sweet
Since it is a Craftsman lawnmower, it probably has a Tecumseh engine.
From my experience, these engines are junk, but since you already have
it, you might as well get it working. Probably what heppened is the oil,
being filled too high, went through the breather tube, end drained into
the carburetor. The breather tube is designed to let fuel vapors out of
the crankcase, and recycle them back through the carb, but it can also
do this to oil if there is too much. Tecumseh's have a common problem of
the float mechanism in the carb getting stuck, or otherwise messed up,
also the fuel jet gets clogged. Go to a mower shop and purchase a
carburetor rebuild kit (about $10), disasemble the carb, making careful
note of how it was assembles, and soak the parts in automotive carb
cleaner, then reasemble it with the new gaskets and seals. Most
automotive stores also sell small engine service manuals. Depending on
your mechanical ability, you may be better off taking it to a shop
though. Good luck...
Arthur Jernberg
Check the Air Filter element to make sure it is not soaked with oil choking
the engine. Problem I expenced with a Briggs 5 hp engine after someone
tipped it wrong side up to clean the residue from beneith the base. Remove
the Air cleaner element, crank the engine & see if it fires up. It probably
will smoke profusely until the ois has been purged from the induction runs
and carb. Good Luck.
Jim Lagerkvist wrote in message <356ED5...@tir.com>...
>Naiming Shen wrote:
>>
Mike Schuckert
Naiming Shen wrote:
>
> Hi,
> This may not be the right group to ask this lawn mower
> question, but I can't see to find the right newsgroup using the
> internet search engineer, so I'm lucky if someone in this group
> have knowledge of this.
> I have a Sears Craftsman lawn mower, power propelled and
> rotary type with 5.3 horsepower. I accidentally over fill the oil
> during the engineer oil change. Now if I pull the string to start,
> the engineer will be on for just a couple of seonds and shuts off.
> Even after I drained the oil level to below the limit line now, it
> still does the same(shuts off right after it starts).
> Does any one know the reason of this? is there anything I
> can do myself to correct this? Thanks in advance.
> Please send response to the email address of ns...@mci.net.
some gets into the carb and cylinder they will be very hard starting and
run like you describe.It will come out of it when oil is burned up and
none in the carb. Also look at air filter that it is not filled up with
oil that its getting choked off. Sometimes starting fluid helps. If you
try to run this with air cleaner off be sure to put the air cleaner
screw in but not to far that you damage the diaphram. Also when it
starts hold the screw that from vibration it don't turn itself in and
also ruin the diaphram. Mike........
Naiming Shen
Thanks for all the replies. This morning I replace the plug, same thing.
I took apart of the carb, the floating bowl seems clean, there is no
oil or anything other than gas in the carb.
I put the carb back, and it still did not work. I can start the engine
by pulling the rope, and keep push the primer to have the engine
running.
So either the carb has problem to shoot the gas into the engine or the
engine does not have enough vacume to such the gas into it.
Jim Lagerkvist wrote:
>
> Naiming Shen wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > This may not be the right group to ask this lawn mower
> > question, but I can't see to find the right newsgroup using the
> > internet search engineer, so I'm lucky if someone in this group
> > have knowledge of this.
> > I have a Sears Craftsman lawn mower, power propelled and
> > rotary type with 5.3 horsepower. I accidentally over fill the oil
> > during the engineer oil change. Now if I pull the string to start,
> > the engineer will be on for just a couple of seonds and shuts off.
> > Even after I drained the oil level to below the limit line now, it
> > still does the same(shuts off right after it starts).
> > Does any one know the reason of this? is there anything I
> > can do myself to correct this? Thanks in advance.
remove x to reply
On Sat, 30 May 1998 17:58:06 GMT, Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> wrote:
>Thanks for all the replies. This morning I replace the plug, same thing.
>I took apart of the carb, the floating bowl seems clean, there is no
>oil or anything other than gas in the carb.
>
>I put the carb back, and it still did not work. I can start the engine
>by pulling the rope, and keep push the primer to have the engine
>running.
>So either the carb has problem to shoot the gas into the engine or the
>engine does not have enough vacume to such the gas into it.
>
One more thing, it could be your fuel line. On some units the primer
bulb has its own line from the tank, thus your symptom. If it one of
the small diameter semi-hard plastic lines, it could very well be
that. If it is EASILY removable, do so and check for obstuction. Be
careful with these rigid lines as some are "woven" around things and
can break if you tug or excessively bend them, and then you can wind
up trying to find the exact replacement (a chore sometimes, and
usually high-priced). Sometimes, a fexible wire, like thin speaker
wire, NOT a coat hanger or the like, can be used to restore flow, but
be gentle.
remove x to reply
Sam Goldwasser
See the FAQ. In particular, check the orifices in the carburetor since this
still sounds like a carburetor problem. And, I don't recall ever getting
an answer as to whether this problem is KNOWN to have occurred ONLY after
overfilling - whether it actually happened independently due to not draining
the oil over the winter!
--- sam : Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Latest Sam stuff: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/
Lasers: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
http://www.misty.com/~don/lasersam.html
In article <35704A09...@mci.net> Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> writes:
Thanks for all the replies. This morning I replace the plug, same thing.
I took apart of the carb, the floating bowl seems clean, there is no
oil or anything other than gas in the carb.
I put the carb back, and it still did not work. I can start the engine
by pulling the rope, and keep push the primer to have the engine
running.
So either the carb has problem to shoot the gas into the engine or the
engine does not have enough vacume to such the gas into it.
Jim Lagerkvist wrote:
Naiming Shen
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>
> See the FAQ. In particular, check the orifices in the carburetor since this
> still sounds like a carburetor problem. And, I don't recall ever getting
> an answer as to whether this problem is KNOWN to have occurred ONLY after
> overfilling - whether it actually happened independently due to not draining
> the oil over the winter!
I have used this lawn mower this year a couple of times. This problem
happened right after the oil overfill. It was working fine in the
morning,
and after added some oil in the afternoon, it started to have this.
I still think it's oil related. Since the carb looked clean, so at least
the oil did not get into the carb. I think it is little chance somewhere
blocked in the carb.
I tried keep the engine running with continously pushing the primer,
with
hope to burn the oil somewhere which might cause the problem, so far
without luck.
Thanks again for all you guys there.
Paul Grammens
Naiming Shen wrote:
> I have used this lawn mower this year a couple of times. This problem
> happened right after the oil overfill. It was working fine in the
> morning,
> and after added some oil in the afternoon, it started to have this.
OK, that is very useful info. That eliminates the usual problem of gum
in the carb from sitting all winter.
>
> I still think it's oil related. Since the carb looked clean, so at least
> the oil did not get into the carb. I think it is little chance somewhere
> blocked in the carb.
>
An engine needs 4 things to run:
1. Spark
2. Proper fuel/air mixture
3. Compression
4. Timing
Since it does start, that suggests that it has spark. Ditto compression
and timing. The only reason I can see that it won't keep running is the
fuel/air mixture, since you are getting it to start with the primer.
That really suggests the carb. How that could be affected by overfilling
with oil is a mystery to me. The only thing I can think of is the hose
from the crankcase to the carb that recycles the blow-by.
Sam Goldwasser is right on checking the orfices of the jets- maybe the
main jet is blocked. It could be coincidence that the oil was overfilled
at the same time.
-Paul
Sam Goldwasser
Please do the following:
Confirm that the main jet (the vertical tube) in the carburetor AND the
hole in the hex nut or casting (depending on model) are clear. And, that
the float bowl has gas in it (it probably does) when you remove the cover.
If all these are 'yes', I will shut up on the issue of carburetor problems! :-)
I do assume you have confirmed that the thottle is free and open and the
air cleaner is clean (just remove it for now).
Naiming Shen
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>
> Please do the following:
>
> Confirm that the main jet (the vertical tube) in the carburetor AND the
> hole in the hex nut or casting (depending on model) are clear. And, that
> the float bowl has gas in it (it probably does) when you remove the cover.
>
> If all these are 'yes', I will shut up on the issue of carburetor problems! :-)
I would say 'yes'.
>
> I do assume you have confirmed that the thottle is free and open and the
> air cleaner is clean (just remove it for now).
>
yes.
Jack Schidt
A long shot, but worth a try.
The 'junk' engine likely has low oil level shutdown, and a real oil pump.
Excessive oil level could have caused foaming when the crank rotated at
normal speeds. The detector in the crankcase sump may be hanging up from
crap or bubbles that were stirred up when the oil was thrown around the
crankshaft.
Drain ALL the oil. Let the mower sit over a drain pan for 15 or so minutes.
Pull the rope once or twice during this interval.
Refill with 22 Ounces of oil [measure it]. Then try again.
Mike Schuckert wrote in message <356F7F...@newulmtel.net>...
Sam Goldwasser
A Craftsman engine with ANY sensors? Get real :-). This is likely your
basic Tecumseh 4 stroke - it doesn have an oil pump but not much else!
--- sam : Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Latest Sam stuff: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/
Lasers: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
http://www.misty.com/~don/lasersam.html
Jack Schidt
Really. My 5.5 HP has one. I think some are B/S commercial.
Sam Goldwasser wrote in message ...
Paul Grammens
Jack Schidt wrote:
>
> A long shot, but worth a try.
>
> The 'junk' engine likely has low oil level shutdown, and a real oil pump.
> Excessive oil level could have caused foaming when the crank rotated at
> normal speeds. The detector in the crankcase sump may be hanging up from
> crap or bubbles that were stirred up when the oil was thrown around the
> crankshaft.
Interesting idea. But don't those low-oil shutdowns cut the ignition? It
wouldn't fire at all in that case, would it?
-Paul
James Sweet
Engines this small never have pressurized lubrication systems, most
everything under 12 HP has a simple splash lubrication system, and yes,
low oil cutoffs do kill the ignition. I have seen this problem a lot
with tecumseh engines, it is the main fuel jet in the carb.
Bill Rothanburg
Also, please make sure you have only GAS in the carburator. I've
wasted a few hours when the problem was a layer of gas on top of some
water.
Sam's right - for some reason, gas isn't getting through the main
jet.
Bill
On Sun, 31 May 1998 02:12:46 GMT, Naiming Shen <ns...@mci.net> wrote:
>Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>>
>> Please do the following:
>>
>> Confirm that the main jet (the vertical tube) in the carburetor AND the
>> hole in the hex nut or casting (depending on model) are clear. And, that
>> the float bowl has gas in it (it probably does) when you remove the cover.
>>
>> If all these are 'yes', I will shut up on the issue of carburetor problems! :-)
>
>I would say 'yes'.
>
>>
>> I do assume you have confirmed that the thottle is free and open and the
>> air cleaner is clean (just remove it for now).
>>
>
>yes.
>
Sam Goldwasser
Tecumsehs have oil pumps at least though I wouldn't call them exactly
pressurized... :-)
James Sweet
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
>
> In article <35723B...@hotmail.com> James Sweet <james...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > Engines this small never have pressurized lubrication systems, most
> > everything under 12 HP has a simple splash lubrication system, and yes,
> > low oil cutoffs do kill the ignition. I have seen this problem a lot
> > with tecumseh engines, it is the main fuel jet in the carb.
>
> Tecumsehs have oil pumps at least though I wouldn't call them exactly
> pressurized... :-)
Oh yeah, now that you mention it, they do have those wierd little
contraptions that slip over a cam on the camshaft. I never did like
working on these, my experience is mostly with Briggs & Strattons, which
are excellent little motors that are reliable, easy to service, and with
a little prevenative maintainance, they will last nearly forever.