using acetone to clean audio cassette heads

[GHilgenber]

I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
acetone on the heads?

[John Di Matteo]

NO! use only alcohol. Preferably 99%, but 70% will do. You can use q-tips, but
chamois sticks would be better.

[Timd]

GHilgenber <ghilg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000802122054...@ng-fu1.aol.com...

> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
> plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
> acetone on the heads?

Use 99% Isopropyl alchohol - the acetone may be a little too harsh on the
heads. Isopropyl
is the standard cleaning agent for items like this.

Regards,

Tim Davidson

[craig osborn]

Denatured alcohol is what i use to clean head and tape path the other type
will dry out some rubber parts however none of these will fix audio problem
you have dirty head does not cause static if you had listed model # maybe i
would have an idea what your problem is BUT ?
JEFF

[Barry]

Actually, acetone will most-likely attempt to dissolve any plastic parts
it comes in contact with.

Alcohol would be better, as the others have mentioned.

[Ian Grant]

GHilgenber wrote:
>
> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
> plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
> acetone on the heads?

Acetone will sure clean the head but it's what it'll do to the rest of
the plastic around it that you should be worried about, in other words
NO, use alcohol or a proprietary head cleaner.

--

Ian Grant
I G Electronics

England

Pages at http://www.igelect.force9.co.uk

[jerr...@hotmail.com]

I highly suggest to use on rubbing alcohol, or isopropal alcohol. Do
not use anything stronger!

If you are getting static while the unit is playing, I doubt it is dirt
on the head. I think you have a cold solder connection, or a defective
component in your unit.

Dirty tape heads result in poor frequency rsponce, and higher
intermodulation distortion in the sound, not static or breakup.

Jerry Greenberg
jer...@hotmail.com
http://www.zoom-one.com

--

In article <20000802122054...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,

ghilg...@aol.com (GHilgenber) wrote:
> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the
radio
> plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of
using
> acetone on the heads?
>

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[DaveW]

Perhaps you are not aware that the "denature" in denatured alcohol is
the contamination of the alcohol with other substances to make it unfit
for consumption. Depending on what type/category it falls in, the
contaminant could be solvents, gasoline, oils and other such things that
if not actually harmful to the heads and other parts, does leave a
residue that is not good for the tapes.

Isopropyl alcohol is the only kind of alcohol that should be used.

"craig osborn" <ee...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:KP0i5.19126$RG6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Denatured alcohol is what i use to clean head and tape path the other
type
> will dry out some rubber parts however none of these will fix audio
problem
> you have dirty head does not cause static if you had listed model #
maybe i
> would have an idea what your problem is BUT ?
> JEFF
>
> GHilgenber <ghilg...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000802122054...@ng-fu1.aol.com...

[Bruce Clothier]

John is right about the acetone! Alcohol is reasonable, but I think the
commercial cleaners use a 50/50 isopropanol /water mix rather than ethyl
alcohol.
Regards, Bruce

John Di Matteo <rad...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:39884D5E...@sympatico.ca...

> NO! use only alcohol. Preferably 99%, but 70% will do. You can use q-tips,
but
> chamois sticks would be better.
>
> GHilgenber wrote:
>

[pressley]

"GHilgenber" <ghilg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000802122054...@ng-fu1.aol.com...

> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
> plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
> acetone on the heads?

try using 99% isopropic alcoho
from mike pres...@mei.net

[wri...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, GHilgenber wrote:
> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
> plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
> acetone on the heads?

Use a cleaning tape or the like . Chemicals and liquids can harm rollers and other plastic / rubber parts . Alcohol will dry out the oils in plastics and rubber , causing them to harden . Acetone will tend to dissolve these materials .

[Terry Schwartz]

All those materials are 19 years older than when this topic was initiated.... So yeah, I bet they're dried out.

[Look165]

Just clean with a Q-tip and that's all.
Cleaning tape is usefull.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

cleaning tapes are almost hopeless anyway. Wet cleaning is the only effective option.

Don't use rubbing alcohol, it contains oil. Vodka is fine. Clean the pinch wheels as well. All must be bone dry before putting a tape in.


NT

[The Real Bev]

The heads are metal. No worries about hardening. Who told you there
was oil in rubbing alcohol? It's alcohol and water. Period.


--
Cheers, Bev
"I've learned that you can keep puking long
after you think you're finished." -- SL

[gregz]

Heads have some insulating material imbedded. Real rubbing alcohol is
supposed to have oil to prevent skin drying too much. Most don't. Isopropyl
or ethyl cleans heads.

Greg

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 10 January 2019 04:12:57 UTC, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 01/09/2019 11:03 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 9 January 2019 16:12:46 UTC, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 10:07:57 AM UTC-6,
> >> wri...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, August 2, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, GHilgenber
> >>> wrote:
> >
> >>>> I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of
> >>>> static the radio plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning
> >>>> tapes I was thinking of using acetone on the heads?
> >>>
> >>> Use a cleaning tape or the like . Chemicals and liquids can harm
> >>> rollers and other plastic / rubber parts . Alcohol will dry out
> >>> the oils in plastics and rubber , causing them to harden .
> >>> Acetone will tend to dissolve these materials .
> >>
> >> All those materials are 19 years older than when this topic was
> >> initiated.... So yeah, I bet they're dried out.
> >
> > cleaning tapes are almost hopeless anyway. Wet cleaning is the only
> > effective option.
> >
> > Don't use rubbing alcohol, it contains oil. Vodka is fine. Clean the
> > pinch wheels as well. All must be bone dry before putting a tape in.
>
> The heads are metal. No worries about hardening. Who told you there
> was oil in rubbing alcohol? It's alcohol and water. Period.

I forget the official standard for it, but it contains rather more than water & alcohol. Looked it up last year.


NT

[Look165]

The body of the head is made of molded resin.
The magnetic element is made of polished folded iron.(try to look with a
microscope).
I go on saying that a good quality cleaning head is useful.
Don't forget to adjust the azimuth setting at the end.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

And I suppose you have to pause your 25/hr 8-day-a-week smoking habit during this time too, right?

[Pat]

>> > On Wednesday, August 2, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, GHilgenber wrote:
>
>> > > I have a ford ranger and the cassette player has a lot of static the radio
>> > > plays fine.I have demagnetizer and cleaning tapes I was thinking of using
>> > > acetone on the heads?
>> >

As other have pointed out, the OP made his request almost 19 years
ago, but since everyone here seems to be discussing the merits of
various head cleaning methods, I have a question. How can "static" be
a symptom of dirty tape heads? Drop outs - yes. Loss of highs - yes.
Static? Sounds more like a bad connection or static electricity being
generated somewhere.

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <312172279568800599.96...@news.eternal-
september.org>, ze...@comcast.net says...

>
> >> Don't use rubbing alcohol, it contains oil. Vodka is fine. Clean the
> >> pinch wheels as well. All must be bone dry before putting a tape in.
> >
> > The heads are metal. No worries about hardening. Who told you there was
> > oil in rubbing alcohol? It's alcohol and water. Period.
> >
>
> Heads have some insulating material imbedded. Real rubbing alcohol is
> supposed to have oil to prevent skin drying too much. Most don't. Isopropyl
> or ethyl cleans heads.
>
>

Rubbing alcohol seems to be a gernetic term by many.

One form is about 70% alcohol and some oils and water.

You can buy some that is about 90% alcohol and 10 % water with no other
oils in it. I have some here labled 91 % and some labled 99%. They are
isoprople alcohol and not labled rubbing alcohol. Alcohol absorbs water
from the atmosphere so before long the 99% will be much less if open to
the air.

Xylene was used at one time to clean the tape machinery. I am not sure
if it is in the stores any more or not.

[Phil Hobbs]

Some rubbing alcohol is 80% isopropyl and 20% water. That has very
different properties, and will craze acrylics instantaneously. It also
leaves residues that cause enormous amounts of 1/f noise in front end
circuits.

Everclear is much better controlled.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/10/19 9:37 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Rubbing alcohol seems to be a gernetic term by many.
>
> One form is about 70% alcohol and some oils and water.

Or you can just buy Denatured alcohol.

> Xylene was used at one time to clean the tape machinery. I am not sure
> if it is in the stores any more or not.

It is available in the paint section.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[peterw...@gmail.com]

Some "Stuff":

Acetone (C3H6O) will attack spolyester resin, many two-part epoxies, ABS plastics, polystyrene, some forms of nylon, lacquer, shellac, unstabilzed celluloid and superglue.

Denatured Alcohol (C2H5OH)is ETHANOL with some other ingredient added to render it unfit for consumption. Typically that "other" is wood alcohol/methanol.

"Rubbing Alcohol" (C3H7OH) is, typically some mixture to include isopropyl alcohol, water and any number of other ingredients, including scents and lubricants.

"Wood Alcohol/Methanol/Stove Fuel" CH3OH) will attack a range of plastics.

https://www.plasticsintl.com/chemical-resistance-chart

A few actual facts do help speed the discussion along. Not to be snarky even a little bit, as I was somewhat surprised by the sensitivities of some things on the list.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Dave Platt]

In article <5f4955a0-fad8-4e2a...@googlegroups.com>,

"Rubbing alcohol" is addressed by several different USP standards.

"Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol USP" is defined as 70% isopropyl alcohol
(plus or minus a couple of percent) by volume, the remainder
"water, with or without suitable stabilizers, perfume oils, and color
additives certified by the FDA for use in drugs." So, even drugstore
isopropyl alcohol can have components other than alcohol and water.

"Rubbing Alcohol USP" (without the word "isopropyl") is ethanol,
water, denaturants (e.g. sucrose octaacetate or denatonium benzoate),
"with or without color additives, and perfume oils."

Some commercial rubbing alcohol used to contain lanolin, to help keep
the skin from drying out; I don't know if any still does.

If you don't see the term "USP" on the label, then whatever you're
buying may not comply with the USP standards I mentioned.

Outside the US things are even more complex; British "surgical
spirit" is methylated spirit (ethanol denatured with methanol),
castor oil, diethyl phthalate, and methyl salicylate ("wintergreen
oil").

(Relevant information cribbed from the Wikipedia article on rubbing
alcohol, and the newdruginfo.com links which cite the USP
definitions).

For electronics cleaning purposes such as tape-deck heads, I prefer to
buy technical-grade isopropyl alcohol. My local Frys carries the
Puretronics brand ($9/quart).

[peterw...@gmail.com]

Adding to Dave's post - a bit of history:


"In 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt signed the Pure Food and Drug Act into law. The law elevated the public health role of the United States Pharmacopeia because it defined a drug as “all medicines and preparations recognized in the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) or National Formulary (NF),” and defined adulterated drugs as those referenced in the USP and NF but differing from “the standard of strength, quality, or purity” specified in the two compendia. The practice of labeling medicines with the letters “U.S.P.” or “USP” became more prevalent. In 1938, the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act reaffirmed the role of the pharmacopeia and expanded its role to include USP standards for labeling and packaging. "

[tub...@myshop.com]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:07:13 -0000 (UTC), gregz <ze...@comcast.net>
wrote:

I have used isopropyl alcohol all my long life for audio and video
heads. Works well.....

Acetone is very harsh and will melt plastic and remove paint. I will not
use it for this....

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 10 January 2019 20:08:06 UTC, Dave Platt wrote:
> In article <5f4955a0-fad8-4e2a...@googlegroups.com>,

We generally use BP & BSes rather than USP. So the answer depends to some extent on where the enquirer is.


NT

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:07:13 -0000 (UTC), gregz <ze...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Heads have some insulating material imbedded. Real rubbing alcohol is
>supposed to have oil to prevent skin drying too much. Most don't. Isopropyl
>or ethyl cleans heads.
>Greg

Perhaps it would be interesting to see what's in a commercial tape
head cleaner?

GC Electronics Magnetic Head Cleaner
Kinda looks like alcohol (ethanol) is safe.
<http://www.gcelectronics.com/order/msds/116.pdf>
Ethanol 86.8%
Methanol 4.5%
Acetic Acid Ethyl Ester 1.1%
2-Pentanone, 4-Methyl- 1.0%
Solvent Naphtha 0.4%
(Petroleum), Light Aliph.
Hexane 0.4%
2-Propanol,2-Methyl- 0.11%
Benzene, Methy- 0.05%
Cyclohexane 0.001%
Other 5.7%

MG Chemicals 407c Audio/video head cleaner
<https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaning-products-for-electronics/cleaners/specialty-cleaners/audiovideo-head-cleaner-407c>
It says "Safe on Plastics".
The composition is somewhat different from the GC head cleaner.
<https://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/msds/01%20English%20Can-USA%20SDS/sds-407c-l.pdf>
67-63-0 propan-2-ol (IPA) 50%
107-83-5 methyl-2-pentane 15-25%
96-14-0 methyl-3-pentane 5-10%
79-29-8 dimethyl-2,3-butane 5-10%
75-83-2 dimethyl-2,2-butane 3-7%
110-54-3 n-hexane 1-2%

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:55:55 -0500, Pat <for...@greensdomain.com>
wrote:

>I have a question. How can "static" be
>a symptom of dirty tape heads? Drop outs - yes. Loss of highs - yes.
>Static? Sounds more like a bad connection or static electricity being
>generated somewhere.

There's quite a bit to be found using Google search on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=tape+head+static+electricity>
The motion of the mylar tape backing over the resin filled head tends
to build up a static charge on the tape. Metal reels and tape
cartridges will discharge most of this, but plastic reels and collect
static.

In high tech tape backup drives, such as LTO type drives, it is
possible for the static electricity to fry the heads.
<https://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/116367/data_recovery/sony_lto_tape_storage_media.html>
"The working of the MR head is very much disturbed by
the static electricity, and the MR head can be destroyed
even by a minute static charge electricity."

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:07:13 -0000 (UTC), gregz <ze...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Heads have some insulating material imbedded. Real rubbing alcohol is
>supposed to have oil to prevent skin drying too much. Most don't. Isopropyl
>or ethyl cleans heads.
>Greg

Suffice it to say that using a substance for a purpose not mentioned on the container’s label just isn’t what you want. Go to a trusted computer or parts retailer and specifically ask for ’parts cleaner’, ‘head cleaner’ .. etc. Because it beats re-inventing the wheel, being adventuresome, gambling, etc...

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 10:02:07 AM UTC-5, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:

> Suffice it to say that using a substance for a purpose not mentioned on the container’s label just isn’t what you want. Go to a trusted computer or parts retailer and specifically ask for ’parts cleaner’, ‘head cleaner’ .. etc. Because it beats re-inventing the wheel, being adventuresome, gambling, etc...

There is always that.

But: Windex (a trusted name-brand cleaner) is:

Ammonia
Isopropyl Alcohol
Blue Dye
Water

Not very much of the first three, either.

Most of those here are at least somewhat sophisticated in the use of search engines. Some of us even fix things on occasion. Point being that with a small amount of research and time, we may be capable of formulating perfectly adequate cleaning solutions that are also both safe and effective. Typically, when we do this successfully, the results are fine, the costs low, and environmental impacts minimized. All good. The only significant caution(s) would be to be absolutely sure we understand the ingredients involved.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

You won't do very well in life with that attitude.


NT

[Fox's Mercantile]

Actually, I do quite well with that attitude.
I buy things that work.

That way I don't have to waste my time and money playing "Mr.
Wizard."

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:02:04 -0800 (PST), bruce2...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Suffice it to say that using a substance for a purpose not mentioned
>on the container’s label just isn’t what you want. Go to a trusted
>computer or parts retailer and specifically ask for ’parts cleaner’,
>‘head cleaner’ .. etc.

Three problems:
1. I don't know of any computer or parts retailer that I would trust.
2. I once asked for "head cleaner" and was presented with a bottle of
shampoo.
3. Everyone reads the label only after the product has been consumed.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 14 January 2019 16:51:05 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

> On 1/14/19 10:03 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Monday, 14 January 2019 15:02:07 UTC, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:

> >> Suffice it to say that using a substance for a purpose not
> >> mentioned on the container’s label just isn’t what you want.
> >> Go to a trusted computer or parts retailer and specifically
> >> ask for ’parts cleaner’, ‘head cleaner’ .. etc. Because it
> >> beats re-inventing the wheel, being adventuresome, gambling,
> >> etc...
> >
> > You won't do very well in life with that attitude.
> >
> > NT
>
> Actually, I do quite well with that attitude.
> I buy things that work.
>
> That way I don't have to waste my time and money playing "Mr.
> Wizard."

I've learnt something today. I wasn't aware that paying a tenth the price for a better & entirely customisable product was a form of wizardry. Nor that it wasted time or money.

Retail concoctions often work, but often not adequately IME. Really it never ceases to amaze me what people pay for mostly water.


NT

[peterw...@gmail.com]

What it comes down to is that there are not a lot of different cleaning materials out there. There are, however, very nearly infinite variations on a very, very few themes. Nothing is magical. And nothing is special in any meaningful way. There are companies that invest heavily in "proprietary" formula, some of which actually work well, and some of which do not. But every single one of them will start with what is most likely the same 20 or so basic materials. And nothing is secret. Do you really think that no other manufacturer has never dumped a drop of DeOxit into a gas chromatograph? Or a drop of Cramolin Red? Or any other solvent, chemical or material?

What is, more importantly, what is not in these magic formula is not magic. The Virgins that do the mixing only on Walpurgis Night are the stuff of legends, not fact-based. Nor do we have to be Mr. Wizard as we approach this. We need to understand some basic chemistry, understand the materials at hand and in use, and understand how any chemical reactions as may take place start, and more importantly, finish. Not a complicated process. We need to understand how chemical mix, what happens to the mix over time, and when applied, how they operate. Not a complicated process, either.

We have choices. Unlike Jeff, I am not in the fee-for-service aspect of the hobby. So, I do not have to warrant anything. Were I to, you bet that anything I used on my bench would be a supportable name-brand product designed for the use-at-hand. So, I may hand-mix a Cramolin-Red analog to my own needs. Or use some glacial ammonia to strip a really nasty part down to its bones. To me, the alternative is landfill - so "kill-or-cure" is not an idle statement.

But I do know my chemistry - at least as it applies to "heads" of various natures.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:10:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:02:04 -0800 (PST), bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> 3. Everyone reads the label only after the product has been consumed.
>

Another way to find out what's in a product it to read its Materials Data
Sheet (MSDS) - any substance that's transported before being sold or used
will have one because its often a condition of transport contracts that
it has one. Here's a good starting point:https://www.msdsonline.com/

https://hazard.com/msds/index.php
https://www.msdsonline.com/

... but unfortunately the first of these is somewhat flaky - quite
possibly related to the US Governmental shutdown, since its been good in
the past.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/14/19 1:46 PM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> Unlike Jeff, I am not in the fee-for-service aspect of the
> hobby. So, I do not have to warrant anything. Were I to,
> you bet that anything I used on my bench would be a
> supportable name-brand product designed for the use-at-hand.

I go through this same argument about using SnapOn tools vs
Craftsman. "But Craftsman is lifetime warranty too."
Perhaps, but I've never had to stop in the middle of a job
and hunt down a SnapOn tool dealer to replace something that
shouldn't have broken in the first place.

I make a living with my tools and materials. NOT standing in
line replacing things.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:38:06 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>I've learnt something today. I wasn't aware that paying a tenth
>the price for a better & entirely customisable product was a
>form of wizardry. Nor that it wasted time or money.

I have a book "Fortunes in Formula" (1939). 853 pages and 10,000
formulas. It has just about everything one might want from cleaning
formulas to medical concoctions. It has served me well over the
years. Unfortunately, it uses the "common" names for chemicals. For
example:
aqua fortis = nitric acid
horn silver = sliver chloride
oil of vitriol = sulphuric acid
sugar of lead = lead acetate
verdigris = copper acetate
The medical preparation section uses the Latin names for everything.
Decoding the formulas does require an extra step in translation, but
is survivable.

A recent example of home chemistry is my annual problem with moss
growing on my wood outside stairs. The moss turns to slime when the
light and temperature is right, making my stairs rather hazardous.
I've been using the overpriced commercial preparation, which works,
but not very well. This year, I decided to try something from the
book, which turned out to be a vinegar, washing soda, salt, and water
preparation. It didn't work well in my sprayer, but it worked much
better than anything else I've dried with a scrub brush and garden
hose. My guess is I saved about $40 by essentially replacing the
commercial preparation with hardware store vinegar.

>Retail concoctions often work, but often not adequately IME.

Yep. I've had the same experience.

>Really it never ceases to amaze me what people pay for mostly water.

When I was young, stupid, and impoverished, I did some work for a
neighbor helping him prepare a laundry product in his garage. The
work was boring, but the owner had me fascinated with his stories
about his WWII TNT factory. The laundry ingredients were initially
fairly common and easily mixed. Yes, it was mostly water. However,
there were obscure additives that were quite necessary, usually to
solve uncommon or odd problems. The customers were getting mostly
water, but the common ingredients and obscure additives were what they
really were buying. The product eventually became a commercial
success and was sold to a large conglomerate.

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/14/19 3:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Yes, it was mostly water. However, there were obscure additives
> that were quite necessary, usually to solve uncommon or odd
> problems. The customers were getting mostly water, but the
> common ingredients and obscure additives were what they really
> were buying.

Exactly. I am more than happy to pay for stuff that works instead
of mucking about trying to "make my own."

Two things of note, brake fluid really does stop weeds in your
driveway cracks, and lamp oil (paraffin oil) is considerably
cheaper than Saddle Soap.

I did learn how to make Prussic Acid, but that's pretty iffy.
I'd rather my enemies drop dead from natural causes or through
their own misfortune.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 14 January 2019 23:05:12 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> On 1/14/19 3:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> > Yes, it was mostly water. However, there were obscure additives
> > that were quite necessary, usually to solve uncommon or odd
> > problems. The customers were getting mostly water, but the
> > common ingredients and obscure additives were what they really
> > were buying.
>
> Exactly. I am more than happy to pay for stuff that works instead
> of mucking about trying to "make my own."

I have more success with my own formulations than retail preparations, mostly at far less cost. I don't see any upside to going retail. I'll use them when they're good, eg washing powder, but many things it's easy to do better. Retail descalers are especially time & money wasting.


NT

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

I humbly disagree.