Hang about guys, I just realised (remembered) why I never started using Thunderbird before. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT?

[Amanda Riphnykhazova]

Hang about guys, I just realised (remembered) why I never started using Thunderbird before. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT?

I looked it up. Here are the instructions: (once the user has been told a few times that T'Bird is really for email and that all the instructions and searches are directed to that end) AND PROBLEMS

Here's how to set up Thunderbird to import Google Groups:
In Thunderbird, go to the gContactSync menu THERE IS NO GCONTACTSYNC MENU
Select Edit Accounts HOW DO YOU EDIT AN ACCOUNT IN A NON-EXISTENT MENU?
Choose your account WHICH ACCOUNT THAT ISN'T A MAIL ACCOUNT?

To be fair, those instructions do say that they are AI Generated. Which may well be why they seem so screwed up

(oh, and I am still using ggroups, so I cant reply to posts!)

[Liz Tuddenham]

For users of older Macs, I recommend MacSOUP and a subscription to
News.Individual.NET

(No connection other than as a happy customer since about 2001)
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Bob F]

When you choose to make it difficult, you get what you deserve.

[Andy Burns]

Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

> THERE IS NO GCONTACTSYNC MENU

You seem to be following instructions involving the gContactSync add-on,
it doesn't look to compatible with current versions of thunderbird,
hasn't been updated in 5 years.

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <7c449e89-39f0-4e9c...@googlegroups.com>,
license...@gmail.com says...

>
> Hang about guys, I just realised (remembered) why I never started
> using Thunderbird before. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT?

[snip wrong instructions]

> To be fair, those instructions do say that they are AI Generated.
> Which may well be why they seem so screwed up

There's a human-written guide here that ought to get you on the right
track: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_Usenet

These AI text-generators don't actually understand anything they write,
they're just churning out sequences of words that are likely to occur
together. It's about as useful as asking your phone's autocomplete.
Unfortunately, unscrupulous people have discovered that it's very easy
to set up websites full of AI-generated clickbait to get people to look
at ads, so it's getting harder and harder to find genuine useful
information on the web.

Best,
Rayner

[Amanda Riphnykhazova]

WELL PUT! A refreshing 'new' take on AI

Sorry, I thought I had explained, the major point of my 'question' was the bit where I said that the instructions were AI generated! By that I meant to say as a minor point of my post that the instructions may look slightly difficult; but the major point of the post was to elicit some general hilarity at how AI can get things wrong by simply trawling around the internet looking for possible answers to some wrong question.

Anyway, I have set up T'Bird now to read NG messages and have moved on to trying ti figure out why I can't reply to messages without getting an IMPROPERLY CONFIGURED OUTGOING NEWSGROUP error message.

( I also discovered that the POST button has only disappeared from Chrome, not Firefox)

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <b2267c52-03de-4f1a...@googlegroups.com>,
license...@gmail.com says...

>
> WELL PUT! A refreshing 'new' take on AI
>
> Sorry, I thought I had explained, the major point of my 'question' was
> the bit where I said that the instructions were AI generated! By that
> I meant to say as a minor point of my post that the instructions may
> look slightly difficult; but the major point of the post was to elicit
> some general hilarity at how AI can get things wrong by simply
> trawling around the internet looking for possible answers to some
> wrong question.

Ah, that was just me reading too fast to pick up on the joke (and being
eager to rant about the plague of AI search-engine spam). It's pretty
funny how absurd it gets sometimes - not long ago I saw an AI-generated
history web page supposedly about the invention of window glass, but
about halfway through it veered off into writing about MS-DOS... because
that was what people used before Windows.

> Anyway, I have set up T'Bird now to read NG messages and have moved on
> to trying ti figure out why I can't reply to messages without getting
> an IMPROPERLY CONFIGURED OUTGOING NEWSGROUP error message.

Good luck! (random thought, do you also get the error when you start a
new thread, or just when following up to an existing message?)

R

[Amanda Riphnykhazova]

> Ah, that was just me reading too fast to pick up on the joke (and being
> eager to rant about the plague of AI search-engine spam). It's pretty
> funny how absurd it gets sometimes - not long ago I saw an AI-generated
> history web page supposedly about the invention of window glass, but
> about halfway through it veered off into writing about MS-DOS... because
> that was what people used before Windows.
> > Anyway, I have set up T'Bird now to read NG messages and have moved on
> > to trying ti figure out why I can't reply to messages without getting
> > an IMPROPERLY CONFIGURED OUTGOING NEWSGROUP error message.
> Good luck! (random thought, do you also get the error when you start a
> new thread, or just when following up to an existing message?)

No need to apologize for a rant when all readers are likely to agree with you and enjoy reading your take on the subject. That is why we are here.

The point was originally put in the Guardian in about November 2022 when they first commented on ChatGPT by noting that it seemed to be a mechanical way of bullshitting at length on any subject out there.

(BTW I only get that error message when sending responses: I DO seem to be able tp do fresh postings without being given the error message )

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <be2cbbba-3e57-489c...@googlegroups.com>,
license...@gmail.com says...

>
> The point was originally put in the Guardian in about November 2022
> when they first commented on ChatGPT by noting that it seemed to be a
> mechanical way of bullshitting at length on any subject out there.

Exactly! It very much reminds me of Harry Frankfurt's famous essay "On
Bullshit", where he observes that bullshitting is different from lying
because (just like ChatGPT) bullshitters don't even know or care whether
what they say is true.

> (BTW I only get that error message when sending responses: I DO seem
> to be able tp do fresh postings without being given the error message)

That's helpful to know, because it means your news server settings must
be fine. Just to clarify, are you trying to send a "Reply" (by email),
or a "Followup" (to the newsgroup)? (personally I think this terminology
is confusing, despite being used in a lot of Usenet clients; I always
have to pause for a moment to remember which is which)

R

[Amanda Ripanykhazova]

I was trying to post a followup here with Thunderbird in response to your suggestions and I had set up the last server recommendation, - paganini.bofh.team

I got that error message so I had to switch back to Firefox and ggroups to post this

[three_jeeps]

Is this a declarative statement or a question???

Thunderbird is fairly simple to install, configure as a SMTP mail client to Google, and then use. Read the official Thunderbird doc and spend a little time using the software, possibly with your favorite drink dejour. You will never go back to a web base browser.

[Bob F]

Indeed. If you "Reply", you will often get an error message returned a
while later, because a "Reply" goes to the posters declared email
address. Followups go to the newsgroup you are reading.

[Bob F]

Many people use non-existant "reply" address in their usenet posts.

[John Robertson]

I guess this depends on how you have Thunderbird configured for Newsgroups.
For example - what do you see on the window that opens when you Followup
to a message (send msg to usenet) vs Reply (send email to poster)?

My setup shows:

From John Robertson<j...@flippers.com> news.eternal-september | Followup
To >>
Reply-To Sp...@flippers.com
Newsgroup sci-electronics.repair
Subject Re: Hang on....

(then the text followed by my reply above)

How have you set up Manage Identities under Account Settings for your
news supplier?

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
#7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[Carlos E.R.]

Not only that, you also need to configure the outgoing mail account
properly for news.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Amanda Ripanykhazova]

No, I didnt configure anything, I just kinda expected it to work like it has always done with USENET (I think I used to use Outlook Express), Deja and GGroups. And it does, except for sending the outgoing messages to the news group.

I'll check my settings again

[ohg...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:26:33 AM UTC-5, Amanda Riphnykhazova wrote:

Same. I installed Thunderbird and all it seems to do is read my emails, something I could do without it. I don't see any way of accessing newsgroups.

[ehsjr]

On 1/6/2024 11:13 AM, Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
> No, I didnt configure anything, I just kinda expected it to work like it has always done with USENET (I think I used to use Outlook Express), Deja and GGroups. And it does, except for sending the outgoing messages to the news group.
>
> I'll check my settings again

I had to configure it. See the following url for instructions:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/manual-account-configuration

Worked for me.
Ed

[ehsjr]

Go to the url below to get R/W access to newsgroups.
http://www.eternal-september.org/

Works for me.
Ed

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-01-06 17:13, Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
> No, I didnt configure anything, I just kinda expected it to work like it has always done with USENET (I think I used to use Outlook Express), Deja and GGroups. And it does, except for sending the outgoing messages to the news group.
>
> I'll check my settings again

You need:

Account name
Your name
Email Address (can be an invalid one)


server name: Port:
Connection security

X Check for new messages every 15 minutes.



That's all that is *needed*


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Amanda Ripanykhazova]

No, everything seems to have been set up for me.
But outgoing (SMTP) settings is empty

It says to just use the default
but there is no,thing set up as a default??

[Bob F]

"File", "New", "Newsgroup account"

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-01-07 05:05, Amanda Ripanykhazova wrote:
> No, everything seems to have been set up for me.
> But outgoing (SMTP) settings is empty

Empty is correct.

>
> It says to just use the default
> but there is no,thing set up as a default??

You are not to use SMTP.

You are not not "Reply" to posts here.

You are to "Follow up" to posts here.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You are not not "Reply" to posts here.
>
> You are to "Follow up" to posts here.

That depends ... if you have the message header pane toolbar enabled,
the reply button there behaves differently to the reply button on the
main toolbar.

[Carlos E.R.]

I don't have buttons on the main toolbar, but I have the main menu.

"Message-Reply to sender only" behaves the same as "Reply" button in the
message header pane toolbar and would send an email to you, but using my
invalid email and the default smtp server, which will not work.

"Message-Reply to all" attempts something that will fail. I'm not
clicking send.

"Message-Follow up to newsgroup" does the same as the "Follow up" button
in the message header pane toolbar.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> if you have the message header pane toolbar enabled,
>> the reply button there behaves differently to the reply button on the
>> main toolbar.
>
> I don't have buttons on the main toolbar, but I have the main menu.
>
> "Message-Reply to sender only" behaves the same as "Reply" button in the
> message header pane toolbar and would send an email to you, but using my
> invalid email and the default smtp server, which will not work.
>
> "Message-Reply to all" attempts something that will fail. I'm not
> clicking send.
>
> "Message-Follow up to newsgroup" does the same as the "Follow up" button
> in the message header pane toolbar.

I can't remember exactly when the message header pane toolbar got added,
around v60 or something? Anyway I decided I already had the main
toolbar and didn't need another, so immediately turned it off.

Shortly afterwards I noticed a big increase in people sending me email
replies instead of to the group, and then having to apologise for it,
since I had no such button, I didn't immediately realise it was due to
the "same" button doing different things in different places.

For me the main reply button always behaves itself, it sends an email
reply to email messages and a usenet reply to usenet messages, on rare
occasions I may use reply-all when I choose to.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2024-01-07 16:03, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> if you have the message header pane toolbar enabled, the reply button
>>> there behaves differently to the reply button on the main toolbar.
>>
>> I don't have buttons on the main toolbar, but I have the main menu.
>>
>> "Message-Reply to sender only" behaves the same as "Reply" button in
>> the message header pane toolbar and would send an email to you, but
>> using my invalid email and the default smtp server, which will not work.
>>
>> "Message-Reply to all" attempts something that will fail. I'm not
>> clicking send.
>>
>> "Message-Follow up to newsgroup" does the same as the "Follow up"
>> button in the message header pane toolbar.
>
> I can't remember exactly when the message header pane toolbar got added,
> around v60 or something?  Anyway I decided I already had the main
> toolbar and didn't need another, so immediately turned it off.
>
> Shortly afterwards I noticed a big increase in people sending me email
> replies instead of to the group, and then having to apologise for it,
> since I had no such button, I didn't immediately realise it was due to
> the "same" button doing different things in different places.

But it is not the case, I get two different buttons. And on mail lists I
get a "Reply-list" button and follow up disappears.

> For me the main reply button always behaves itself, it sends an email
> reply to email messages and a usenet reply to usenet messages, on rare
> occasions I may use reply-all when I choose to.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I didn't immediately realise it was due to
>> the "same" button doing different things in different places.
>
> But it is not the case, I get two different buttons.

I've just turned back on my hidden toolbar, and it *is* case here that
on the message header toolbar the first "reply" icon i.e. with
single-left facing arrow says "reply to sender" and it acts exactly like
"reply all" from the main toolbar i.e. with double left-facing arrow ...
try it ...

[Carlos E.R.]

No, mine says "Reply", not "reply to sender", and does not behave like
"reply all".

The Follow up button has a droplist:

Follow up
Reply all
Reply

And there is another button that says "Forward".


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> The Follow up button has a droplist:
>
>   Follow up
>   Reply all
>   Reply
>
> And there is another button that says "Forward".

yes, I get those ... I've even done a "reset" of the toolbar, it still
does "reply all"

[Carlos E.R.]

On news, you only have to use "follow up". Forget replies of any kind.


If it doesn't work properly, it is something you have misconfigured on
your end, so ask in the Thunderbird group.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> If it doesn't work properly, it is something you have misconfigured on
> your end, so ask in the Thunderbird group.

It's not configurable, but it works just fine for me as it is ...

[Peter W.]

https://newsgroupservers.net/usenet-basics/usenet-newsgroup-reader/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Usenet_newsreaders

https://www.itpro.com/infrastructure/network-internet/368088/six-of-the-best-usenet-newsgroup-readers

Not rocket science.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA