How to resolder a cold solder connection?
micky
Next to the fourth picture, it says:
"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
Does anyone agree with that?
This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
after a few years.
When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh? Thrifty
guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would routinely do
the seocnd.
He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
Phil Allison
"micky"
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
>
> Next to the fourth picture, it says:
>
> "Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
> removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
> re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
>
> Does anyone agree with that?
** Yep.
> When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
> solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh? Thrifty
> guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would routinely do
> the seocnd.
** Wicking ( or using a de-soldering gun) to get the old solder off is
needed to look at the component leads or pins before re-soldering
If the lead looks shiny and tinned all over - fine.
If the lead looks dark and dry of solder - not fine.
Also, there is now the issue of mixing dissimilar solders - ie leaded and
unleaded.
I use Multicore "Savbit" solder for all repairs as it will not absorb
copper, has higher than usual strength and a very good flux core.
.... Phil
Dave Platt
micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
>
>Next to the fourth picture, it says:
>
>"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
>removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
>re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
>
>Does anyone agree with that?
I think "it depends".
There may be some advantages to clearing off the old solder and
replacing it entirely. Two possible such:
(1) Some years ago I had a problem with an audio amplifier...
intermittent solder joints. The manufacturer informed me that
their contract assembly house had "use the wrong solder" in the
wave-solder machine, and that this had resulted in a poor joint on
the transistor connections. I'm not sure whether it was a poor
bond due to the alloy used, or whether there was a difference in
thermal expansion rates which caused the joint to suffer more
stress due to power-on-heat/power-off-cold cycling.
The manufactuer specifically recommended that I strip out the old
solder and replace it.
(2) In some cases, the problem with a bad solder joint might be due to
the contact materials being soldered - oxidation, other
contamination, or an alloy which didn't "wet" well with the
solder/flus combination originally used.
In this case, stripping off the old solder, perhaps cleaning or
lightly scraping the metal, applying some proper flux to the
metal, and re-soldering would give you the best chance of a good
solder bond. Simply re-flowing the existing connection would not
necessarily get enough flux into the joint area to address any
problems on the contact surfaces.
Issue (2) might hold, even if the joint was originally OK. If the
solder bond has cracked away from the contact metal, then the metal
surface has had the oppotunity to oxidize... and so getting some good
flus into the contact surface when re-soldering is probably a good
idea.
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
>http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
>
>Next to the fourth picture, it says:
>
>"Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
>removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
>re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
>
>Does anyone agree with that?
Yes. Especially when the old solder is leaded, and the new solder is
un-leaded. If I'm not sure, I clean the joint with a solder sucker
and maybe braid just to be sure.
>This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
>fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
>on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
>after a few years.
RoHS unleaded solder which is not very strong. If you want strength,
use silver solder. My guess is that the engine control board gets
quite a pounding under the hood, and may have top heavy components
trying to flex the leads. If this is a problem, you might get a big
improvement if you can support the top heavy components with RTV,
silicon rubber, or hot melt glue. That will take the load off the
solder connection.
> When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
>solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh? Thrifty
>guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would routinely do
>the seocnd.
I do both. When I know that I'm using the same type of solder, I just
reheat and add more solder (with flux). If I don't know the solder
type, I remove as much of the old solder as possible.
>He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
I've never heard of that term.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Winston
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
>
> Next to the fourth picture, it says:
>
> "Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
> removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
> re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
>
> Does anyone agree with that?
Yes. Re-flowing is *possible* but risky, because
it generally results in a oxide-polluted 'cold' joint.
In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
process. The improvement in quality is substantial.
> This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
> fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
> on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
> after a few years.
>
> When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
> solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh?
Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
That hasn't failed yet.
> Thrifty guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would
> routinely do the seocnd.
After your first 10 repairs it goes a lot faster. :)
> He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
He meant to say:
""Cold" solder joints (a frosted appearance),"
Here is a classic example. Note the frosted
appearance of the solder and the lack of 'wetting'
on the pin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Cold_solder_joint.jpg
--Winston
Phil Allison
"micky"
> He calls it dry solder.
** In fact he said " Dry solder joint " - a very common term.
The word dry refers to a lack of " wetting " of one or both the metal
surfaces to be soldered.
If an otherwise solderable metal surface is contaminated with oxides or
similar, hot solder will simply refuse to alloy with it and there will be no
or only minimal electrical connection and no mechanical strength.
A frosted appearance on the joint is generally due to movement while
cooling, insufficient heat or the use of lead free solder.
.... Phil
stra...@yahoo.com
What the other say is true but I wanted to add, those pictures of the
'good' soldering job is substandard soldering. After cleaning off the
old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
removed and again after the new soldering.
G²
Phil Allison
<stra...@yahoo.com>
What the other say is true but I wanted to add, those pictures of the
'good' soldering job is substandard soldering. After cleaning off the
old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
removed and again after the new soldering.
** What for ?
Solder flux is normally harmless and routinely left behind by many
manufacturers.
.... Phil
N_Cook
news:j2v7j...@news7.newsguy.com...
There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
heating
Allodoxaphobia
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:06:55 -0400, micky wrote:
>
>>He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
>
> I've never heard of that term.
I think that is a left-ponder/right-ponder 'distinction'.
Winston
(...)
> There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
> sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
> heating
It can.
A poor joint can result from lots of different
things. An overheated joint can also exhibit
'dewetting' because of rapid corrosion growth.
In casual Googling just now, I see some really
misleading information about proper electronic
soldering technique. That's a pity, because each
article I saw contains several good ideas with a
real stinker thrown in.
In one case, the user is cautioned (and I am not
making this up):
"The use of separate acid flux paste (e.g. as used
by plumbers) should NEVER be necessary in normal
electronics applications because electronics-grade
solder already contains the correct grade of flux!"
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm
Well, of course one would never use *acid* flux on
an electrical or electronic joint. One uses a
flux compatible with one's properly selected solder.
In another case, the poor reader is bombarded
with information about 5 different kinds of solder,
3 of which should never be used on electronics.
http://www.elexp.com/t_solder.htm
They go on to imply that added flux is *always*
a bad idea. This is nonsense. Added flux
compatible with your properly selected solder is
*always* a good idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
This video is difficult to watch for folks that
already know how to do electronic soldering because
it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.
It does go on to illustrate good technique but still
does not emphasize fluxing and joint prep properly IMHO.
--Winston
Winston
Naaah. I see that 'dry solder joint' is a real term.
It is a variety of 'cold solder' joint with insufficiently
wetted parts.
Avoid 'dry' joints by using careful joint preparation and
fluxing, proper soldering tools and techniques.
--Winston
Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
>Naaah. I see that 'dry solder joint' is a real term.
>It is a variety of 'cold solder' joint with insufficiently
>wetted parts.
Well, using Google:
<http://www.pcuser.com.au/pcuser/hs2.nsf/lookup+1/2BA1DD3A7AF26E20CA256F2500358412>
and a few others. It seems like it's a real term, but not very
common.
Winston
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:12:08 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Naaah. I see that 'dry solder joint' is a real term.
>> It is a variety of 'cold solder' joint with insufficiently
>> wetted parts.
>
> Well, using Google:
> <http://www.pcuser.com.au/pcuser/hs2.nsf/lookup+1/2BA1DD3A7AF26E20CA256F2500358412>
> and a few others. It seems like it's a real term, but not very
> common.
I agree.
I had to look it up too.
--Winston <--Eschewing kerfuffle; abjuring obfuscation.
Ron
Cold solder = US
Thus it ever shall be
Ron(UK)
whit3rd
> <stra...@yahoo.com>
>... After cleaning off the
> old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
> removed and again after the new soldering.
>
>
> ** What for ?
>
> Solder flux is normally harmless and routinely left behind by many
> manufacturers.
My favorite flux (water-soluble) isn't really compatible with resin-type
no-clean fluxes. So, cleaning off the old flux helps me redo the joint.
It's possible, too, that 'hot enough' iron for my flux is not suitable
to fully activate the (unknown, foreign) original flux residue.
It's also possible that what looks like flux is actually someone's
candlewax drip. Cleaning first is cheap insurance.
stra...@yahoo.com
> <stratu...@yahoo.com>
Not the good ones. So, it's OK to be a slob just because you can?
Bollocks.
G²
Michael A. Terrell
Obviously, Phil has never done NASA or NATO approved soldering.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
Phil Allison
<stra...@yahoo.com
> "Phil Allison" <
>
> What the other say is true but I wanted to add, those pictures of the
> 'good' soldering job is substandard soldering. After cleaning off the
> old solder with a solder sucker and/or wick, the old flux should be
> removed and again after the new soldering.
>
> ** What for ?
>
> Solder flux is normally harmless and routinely left behind by many
> manufacturers.
>
Not the good ones.
** Circular argument.
Solder flux IS routinely left behind by many major manufacturers ( both
now and for decades into the past) and clearly does no harm.
So, it's OK to be a slob just because you can?
** Seems to be the way you go about YOUR thinking.
Fuck off - imbecile.
stra...@yahoo.com
G²
stra...@yahoo.com
Look at the boards in you PC. See any flux?
G²
Phil Allison
<stra...@yahoo.com>
"Phil Allison"
** False argument again.
If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then you would
NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.
BTW:
Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???
Imbecile.
.... Phil
stra...@yahoo.com
>
> Look at the boards in your PC. See any flux?
>
> ** False argument again.
>
> If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then
you would
> NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.
>
> BTW:
>
> Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???
>
> Imbecile.
>
Yeah. It's crap. You seem to be unaware that de-soldering in the old
flux will start to burn it and make it somewhat conductive and if not
cleaned off can cause erratic operation in high impedance
systems.Cleaning it off is therefore a good practice.
G²
Phil Allison
<stra...@yahoo.com
> Look at the boards in your PC. See any flux?
>
> ** False argument again.
>
> If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then
> you would NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.
>
> BTW:
>
> Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???
>
> Imbecile.
>
Yeah. It's crap.
** You are a fucking, nut case moron.
You seem to be unaware that de-soldering in the old
flux will start to burn it and make it somewhat conductive
** Horse shit.
FOAD you stinking lunatic.
.... Phil
Michael A. Terrell
If his mother had refused to fuck an imbecile, Phil wouldn't be here.
stra...@yahoo.com
Since I'm the one who got the system working by removing the solder
flux, I know it isn't equine excrement.
Have a nice day if you can.
G²
micky
wrote:
>micky wrote:
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
>>
>> Next to the fourth picture, it says:
>>
>> "Removal of old solder As much of the old solder as possible was
>> removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
>> re-flow the old solder, but this method is better. "
>>
>> Does anyone agree with that?
>
>Yes. Re-flowing is *possible* but risky, because
>it generally results in a oxide-polluted 'cold' joint.
Finding more webpages on how to fix this car, I came across this,
probably from a different guy:
"It is likely that a layer of hard oxide has built up inside the
solder joint. The layer of hard oxide has to be removed by
desoldering. Other than this, there are no known mechanical problem
with the main relay. "
FTR, this followed "The Honda or Acura turns over but won't start in
hot weather is a symptom of a main relay going bad. This is the result
of the poor solder application from the factory. As a consequence,
raise areas on the joint indicate a "dry joint" which can lead to an
open circuit. The dry, open circuit is the main cause of no start.
This is partly caused by the buildup of heat on the terminals which
expand, contract and subject to vibrations.."
The relay is under the dash, so doesn't get the heat of the engine,
but it seems just the heat of the sun, inside a closed car, then
cooling off every day, thousands of times, causes problems, especially
in the summer. The first guy recommends resoldering this main relay
(fuel injectors and fuel pump) in any car over 8 years old.
The second guy acutally has an enalarged photo of the circuit board
with several joints marked and the symptoms when each is bad, whn you
hold the cursor over the circle! This must be a really common
problem.
http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm
And a big tutorial on bad solder joints and resoldering.
But there are wackos who do great detail work too, so I didn't take
his oxide story seriously until you guys confirmed it.
>In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
>to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
>process. The improvement in quality is substantial.
I see.
>> This ia an automotve electical device, a Honda main engine relay and
>> fuel pump relay, with a resistor and 3 diodes, and has 24 solder spots
>> on the circuti board. It seems to have a lot of cold solder problems
>> after a few years.
A 2001 Honda Accord EX, but all Hondas for the last 15 years seem to
use this part.
>>
>> When you guys resolder, do you just heat it up and add a little more
>> solder, or do you clean off the old solder and start fresh?
>
>Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
>and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
>I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
>solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
Dang. I never clean joints I have soldered. :( I don't think
anyone ever told me to before.
>That hasn't failed yet.
>
>> Thrifty guy that I am, it never occurred to me that people would
> > routinely do the seocnd.
>
>After your first 10 repairs it goes a lot faster. :)
>
>> He calls it dry solder. Maybe that's the automotive term.
>
>He meant to say:
>""Cold" solder joints (a frosted appearance),"
>
>Here is a classic example. Note the frosted
>appearance of the solder and the lack of 'wetting'
>on the pin:
>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Cold_solder_joint.jpg
>
>--Winston
Thanks, and thanks everyone.
micky
wrote:
>N_Cook wrote:
>
>(...)
>
>> There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
>> sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
>> heating
Me. too.
>It can.
Yeah, but I thought that's what it always meant. In part, I'm
sure, because from age 9 to 19, all I had was a wood-burning iron,
which I never used to burn wood, and which was just a little too cold
to solder with well. It worked. but in the process I had loads of
cold solder joints that were really cold.
These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
who mean well.
Winston
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:07:04 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
> wrote:
>
>> N_Cook wrote:
>>
>> (...)
>>
>>> There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
>>> sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
>>> heating
>
> Me. too.
>
>> It can.
>
> Yeah, but I thought that's what it always meant. In part, I'm
> sure, because from age 9 to 19, all I had was a wood-burning iron,
> which I never used to burn wood, and which was just a little too cold
> to solder with well. It worked. but in the process I had loads of
> cold solder joints that were really cold.
Insufficient heat will do it for sure.
If you still have that tool, I think it would be very
interesting to see if you could get good quality joints
by polishing the parts to be joined and using added flux
before applying heat.
Wood burning tools can generally achieve 500 F and
60/40 solder melts at ~476 F.
I'd never recommend this as a normal practice because there
is not enough thermal headroom to do a consistently good
job with larger joints and 60/40 solder is inferior to
63/37 solder for electronic applications, all else being
equal. Still, it would be interesting, yes?
(...)
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
>> This video is difficult to watch for folks that
>> already know how to do electronic soldering because
>> it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.
>
> These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
> desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
> who mean well.
I understand the reason why they show the poor technique
initially. Hopefully, a user would recognize their way
of doing it and have a chance to correct. This isn't too
fantastic; I've seen some astoundingly bad technique used
by techs in companies that you would instantly recognize
the names of.
I got out of the biz before having to do *any*
'lead free' electronic soldering. I suspect that one
could do acceptable repairs with the proper tools.
I wouldn't expect that the proper techniques would
change much at all.
--Winston
Meat Plow
> <stra...@yahoo.com
>
> > Look at the boards in your PC. See any flux?
> >
> > ** False argument again.
> >
> > If leaving the flux behind on a PCB were a very bad thing, then
>> you would NEVER see it done by any equipment makers.
> >
> > BTW:
> >
> > Never hear of " NO clean " flux ???
> >
> > Imbecile.
> >
> >
> Yeah. It's crap.
>
> ** You are a fucking, nut case moron.
Too bad your parents didn't sue the condom company for your unwanted
conception.
--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
Phil Allison
<stra...@yahoo.com>
** This loon is a Massive TROLL !!
Since I'm the one who got the system working by removing the solder
flux, I know it isn't equine excrement.
** Another nonsense argument.
The loony bins are full of crazies like this POS.
Winston
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:42:34 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
> wrote:
(...)
> The second guy acutally has an enalarged photo of the circuit board
> with several joints marked and the symptoms when each is bad, whn you
> hold the cursor over the circle! This must be a really common
> problem.
> http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm
>
> And a big tutorial on bad solder joints and resoldering.
I agree with just about everything presented on that page.
This relay board is likely to be corroded in the defective
joints, so I certainly see that removing the old solder
is a very Good Idea.
However:
1) Dab compatible flux on each joint before soldering.
A) I use standard old rosin flux so I selected a
matching liquid flux. I apply it from a HDPE
flux bottle.
http://assemblyoutfitters.com/images/EC-900-230-Flux-bottle.jpg
For maximum convenience, the stuff is available
in 'pen' form too:
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/images/83-1000-0186.jpg
2) The advice to clean the board with steel wool is
extremely risky. Fine metal hairs are not something
you want in an electronic assembly. Use an acid
brush and a flux bottle full of 50/50 alcohol/naphtha.
> But there are wackos who do great detail work too, so I didn't take
> his oxide story seriously until you guys confirmed it.
>
>> In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
>> to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
>> process. The improvement in quality is substantial.
>
> I see.
(...)
> A 2001 Honda Accord EX, but all Hondas for the last 15 years seem to
> use this part.
(...)
>> Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
>> and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
>> I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
>> solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
>
> Dang. I never clean joints I have soldered. :( I don't think
> anyone ever told me to before.
Fluxes work by dissolving metal and suspending oxides.
They don't know when their job is complete. Sooooooo.... :)
(....)
> Thanks, and thanks everyone.
Please let us know how it goes.
--Winston
Dave U. Random
<news:4v0ihn....@news.alt.net>:
Too bad yer mother was dissuaded from flushing you down the toilet
when you were born. She took one look at yer fat, ugly,
snaggle-toothed, big-headed grotesqueness, and reached for the flush
handle.
But yer retarded daddy stopped her, saying, "I can use him for slave
labor in my oil field until he's 18, then boot his ugly ass out the
door. I'll not give him a cent of our accumulated wealth, he's
obviously far too retarded to manage money."
And yer daddy was right. After he died, yer mommy took pity on you,
giving you a portion of her wealth, which you promptly blew.
That's why yer poor. That's why you subsist on $25 per week of food,
that's why you drive a broke-down 8 year old, 80,000 mile GMC
crapmobile, that's why you have $8666.97 in unpaid credit card debt
that you can't pay even when ordered to by the courts, that's why yer
retarded son can't afford to go to college unless he gets a full
scholarship (and we all know that'll never happen!).
Face it, Willy. Yer a broke-down, broke-ass, old geezer loser.
> --
> Live Fat Die Broke, Leave A Pustulent Corpse
Fixed yer .sig.
Yer welcome.
--
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WHO IS 'MEAT PLOW' from Alt.Usenet.Kooks (AUK)?
The obese, abusive, ugly, snaggle-toothed, giant-headed, gay 'bear'
biker retard who likes to surf gay porn sites as 'BlancoBear' while
wearing only assless chaps:
William Malone Griffith, Jr.
(aka Milt, Meat Plow, BlancoBear, Me...@petitmorte.net, Tripp)
308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023
Some of this sick fuck's best work, and comments from others about
him:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.buzzard.rules/msg/f630759d6303a19d
Message-ID: <SFexc.17128428$Of.28...@news.easynews.com>
Willy claims to be a member of SPUTUM (Subgenius Police, Usenet
Tactical Unit, Mobile), but subgenius doesn't even BEGIN to describe
Willy...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/b42fac45ef5210f9
Is yer CapsLock on, Willy?
Evidence that Meat Plow is William Malone Griffith, II:
--------------------
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/5650f8e1e7dedefa
Message-ID: <fc5167ee7ad8e6f6...@rip.ax.lt>
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/e52ffbb346f5b764
Message-ID: <ac995ab01f76a177...@rip.ax.lt>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/a94a2a11df601e39
Message-ID: <f6ccd46e74bff6e9...@rip.ax.lt>
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/ef80aad2e7db945d
Message-ID: <2abe74de52d65b60...@rip.ax.lt>
--------------------
Meat Plow personal info:
--------------------
Birthdate: Oct 3, 1955
Amateur Radio callsign N8NCX
Technician Plus
(2 meter, 6 meter)
--------------------
--------------------
Photo of MeatPlow in Belden Village Music store (his sister's music
store):
(Note the guitars in the background, the planet-sized head,
the rotten-Chiclet teeth, and general look of retardation)
http://www.productwiki.com/william-malone-griffith-ii/lists/
http://images.productwiki.com/upload/images/william_malone_griffith_ii_avatar_1_0-150-150.jpg
Photo of William Malone Griffith, Jr. from uffnet.com:
(Note that it's the same person as in the photo above)
http://www.uffnet.com/library/headlines/images/news1376621745xlb.jpg
He's got his father's nose and eyes:
http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/kentucky/guestbook.aspx?pid=2527782
http://mi-cache.legacy.com/usercontent/guestbook/photos/2005-09/6966764.jpg
--------------------
Meat Plow email addresses:
--------------------
http://web.archive.org/web/20010305113423/http://www.k1hk.org/ugb_archive3.html
"Bill N8NCX wgri...@neo.rr.com"
wgriffit at neo.rr.com (neo = North East Ohio)
mhywattt at yahoo.com
mhywatt at yahoo.com
--------------------
Meat Plow admits to being from Ohio:
--------------------
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
--------------------
Meat Plow's brushes with the law:
--------------------
1}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/crim/crim_display_docket_main?pass_case_no=11543&pass_case_type=VBD&pass_case_year=2002&pass_first_name=William&pass_last_name=Griffith
2}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/civil/civil_display_docket_main?case_year_no=2009-3533&litigant_txt=Griffith
--------------------
Meat Plow quotes:
--------------------
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I have no shame here in Usenet."
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I'd bet $200.00 of that Keiser money you still have that you will
leave before me."
Meat Plow describes his high-powered legal team:
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"You know i have a legal team who specializes in internet law. And I
won't hesitate to get them in on the action."
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I haven't changed nor do I plan on it any time in the near future.
And yes I am bullet-proof as I have proved it."
Meat Plow visits a massage parlor for a Happy Ending massage.
But they refused to give him a Happy Ending his second time there.
That explains why he's gay, he can't even PAY for HAND JOBS from
women.
-----
http://www.clreviews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11679
"One time I got a HE, and the 2nd time I didn't. I was asked if I was
there both times and said I was. That's is why I didn't know if I said
something wrong the 2nd time which made me not get a HE."
Well, at least we know what he does with his weekends.
-----
Meat Plow losing his connection to reality, insinuating that he's law
enforcement:
Message-ID: <pan.2011.07...@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I could be LE posing as Meat Plow. It can't be dis-proven."
--------------------
Oh, William, what would yer family say if they learned yer secrets?
Mother:
..----------------------------.
Catherine & Angelo Griffith
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-494-5785
'----------------------------'
Daughter:
..----------------------------.
Julia M. Griffith
308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023
'----------------------------'
Sister:
..----------------------------------------.
Pamela L. & Roger R. Werling
{ son Todd E. Werling (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ son Chris (Kennesaw, GA) }
{ son Keith (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ grandson Easton }
{ grandson Zakary }
{ granddaughter Camella }
7704 Bisque Court
Fort Wayne, IN 46825-3501
260-489-6086
'----------------------------------------'
Sister:
..----------------------------------------------.
Cheryl J. & Jason 'Sparky' Humberto E. Rivera
{ daughter Christina }
{ daughter Rosalio (North Canton, OH) }
{ daughter Maria (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Len Gray (Ft. Worth, TX) }
5225 Echo Valley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-9702
----------------------------------------------
Belden Village Music
6787 Wales Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720
beldenvillagemusic.com
330-497-9292
----------------------------------------------
Rosalio B & Maria I Rivera
444 Wales Rd. NE
Massillon, OH 44646-5875
330-833-4291
----------------------------------------------
PO Box 35093
Canton, OH 44735
'----------------------------------------------'
Sister:
..---------------------------------------.
Carol L. & Ric A. Campbell
{ son Richard }
{ son Christopher (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Brandon († 30 May 1996) }
{ daughter Erin }
6794 William Tell Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6546
330-497-7980
330-499-5107
---------------------------------------
PO Box 36473
Canton, OH 44735
'---------------------------------------'
Sister:
..----------------------------------.
Christine H. & Shelton M. Vick
{ son Matthew }
3915 Harvard Ave NW
Canton, OH 44709-1538
330-493-5645
----------------------------------
Re/Max Edge Realty
North Canton / Massillon / Canton
Realtor Christine H. Vick
6929 Portage St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6535
330-236-5100
888-830-6509 (fax)
330-904-0883 (cell)
www.MyOhioHomeFinder.com
MyOhioHo...@gmail.com
'----------------------------------'
Sister:
..----------------------------.
Angela C. & Mark Warshefski
11 SE 12th St.
Pompano Beach, FL 33060
954-785-4716
----------------------------
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-942-0584
'----------------------------'
Cousin:
..-------------------------.
Eddy Dailey
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
-------------------------
Bergholz Financial Corp.
dba SuperMart
PO Box 545
524 Garfield St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------------'
Cousin:
..--------------------.
Donna L. Dailey
524 5th St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2416
--------------------
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
--------------------
Bergholz, OH EMT
'--------------------'
Cousin:
..-------------------.
Bill & Joyce Leas
{ son Billy }
243 2nd St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------'
Niece:
..---------------------------.
Rachel & Adam T. Livengood
{ son Lukas }
{ daughter Lauren }
6342 Palmer Dr. NW
Canton, OH 44718
330-497-7754
'---------------------------'
Izzatchoo, or yer dead daddy?
..--------------------------------.
William M. Griffith
between 3rd and 4th St.
between Monroe and Lincoln Ave.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2539
'--------------------------------'
What would yer landlord for 308 10th St. NE,
North Canton, OH say if they learned yer secrets?
..----------------------------.
David S. and Joan R. Shaner
2095 Waterbury Dr.
Uniontown OH 44312
330-699-4042
'----------------------------'
What would the employees at yer family's
business say if they learned yer secrets?
..-----------------------------------------.
Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation
aka Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration (defunct)
aka Ohio Kentucky Coal Company (defunct)
5112 Portage St. NW
Canton, OH 44720-6856
(330) 494-8810
(330) 497-7980
-----------------------------------------
110 E. Lowry Lane
Lexington, KY 40503
(800) BUY 4 OIL
(800) 289-4645
(859) 223-5656
(859) 223-5946
(859) 276-0699 (fax)
(859) 276-3500
(859) 276-4080
-----------------------------------------
http://www.ohiokentuckyoil.com
oils...@insightbb.com
ad...@ohiokentuckyoil.net
'-----------------------------------------'
----------
Oh, but wait, Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration is no longer incorporated in
Ohio:
Daddy Griffith's petrol exploration company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:384125
Nor are any of the other businesses yer daddy started. You let them
all fail:
Daddy Griffith's stables (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:377966
Daddy Griffith's motel business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:377965
Daddy Griffith's drilling company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:347837
Daddy Griffith's metals business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:552193
And Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation is on its last legs, inundated with
securities fraud lawsuits and EPA lawsuits. It's barred from
soliciting investors in Tennessee due to securities fraud, it's under
investigation in Ohio and Kentucky, it owns no oil assets or wells,
and it no longer does any of its own drilling. It'll be gone soon,
too.
And you've squandered everything Daddy Griffith earned from his
businesses, so yer now poor, adding insult to injury.
----------
You being poor is why you issued the following. You knew you didn't
have ten thousand dollars or so to defend yerself against yet another
lawsuit:
William Malone Griffith, II's grovelfest of an apology for being a
fucktard stauker:
==================================================
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/browse_thread/thread/8d753c94bd612f4e
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/3859383/meat_plow_exposed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/c9fccf0d1ab26ace
Message-ID: <3n4c2e....@news.alt.net>
Title: Apology to Charles Novins
The witnesses to this abject, groveling apology:
Angela Griffith = Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski, William Malone
Griffith, Jr.'s sister
Catherine Griffith = William Malone Griffith, Jr.'s mother
Julia M. Griffith = William Malone Griffith, Jr.'s daughter
Cheri Griffith = Cheryl J. Griffith-Rivera, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister
Justin M. Griffith = ?
Kristy Griffith = Christine H. Griffith-Vick, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister
-----
Questions yet to be answered:
Who is Justin M. Griffith?
Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski came all the way from Pompano Beach,
Florida to witness and sign MeatPlow's apology letter?
Or did William Malone Griffith, Jr. forge the witness signatures,
which would indicate some level of insincerity in the apology?
If William Malone Griffith, Jr. did indeed forge the witness
signatures, is his family cognizant of him using them in this way?
Who is Deborah Ann Griffith?
-----
Who is Sherri Renee Christie, William D. Christie (age 54) and Lillie
L. Christie, and how are they associated with William Malone Griffith,
II?
1345 Bison St. NW
Massillon, OH 44647
330-833-5313 (Sherri)
330-837-4967 (William)
2524 Meadows Ave NW
Apt. 4
Massillon, OH 44647
PO Box 36221
Canton, OH 44735
-----
==================================================
It's time for a digital enema to flush this turd named William Malone
Griffith, II out of the system.
The exit is -.
|
'-----.
.---. .-----. |
| | '---. | |
'-. `-----|-' |
| '---'
'------------->
thataway
.
Sjouke Burry
cut
> Too bad yer mother
cut
Do you copy/paste this abuse shit?
Why advertise that you are totally deprived of social skills?
micky
wrote:
>micky wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 07:07:04 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> N_Cook wrote:
>>>
>>> (...)
>>>
>>>> There's me thinking all those decades that cold solder joint meant lack of
>>>> sweating, ie lack of wetting (melding) to the metal surface due to lack of
>>>> heating
>>
>> Me. too.
>>
>>> It can.
>>
>> Yeah, but I thought that's what it always meant. In part, I'm
>> sure, because from age 9 to 19, all I had was a wood-burning iron,
>> which I never used to burn wood, and which was just a little too cold
>> to solder with well. It worked. but in the process I had loads of
>> cold solder joints that were really cold.
>
>Insufficient heat will do it for sure.
>
>If you still have that tool, I think it would be very
The whole story is this. When I was 9, I was given a wood-burning
iron with two extra tips and a finished wooden box to hold eveyrhing
for my 9th brithday. Plus about 4 piieces of wood with sketches on
them that I was supposed to brun lines on.
I liked it. Just then my older brother announced that his could be
fixed, and my mother announced that we could return mine. Now I had
hand-me-down toys and hand-me-down clothes all my life, and I didn't
mind at all, but this time they were going to snatch it right out of
my hands. I threw a tantrum, my last one. And I got to keep my
iron.
But then I felt guilty. I never burned wood but i soldered with it
for 5 to 7 years, until something in the solder ate a hole in the tip
and the iron stopped working. Then I got my brother's iron, fixed
it, and used that -- no longer feelign guilty, in fact retroactively
not guilty -- for the same length of time, until it wore out the same
way. Finally,at age 19 to 23, I bought myself a real soldering iron,
with replaceble elements and tips.
What is it in the solder that eats up my wood burning irons and the
tips. Oh, you said that in the other post: "Fluxes work by
dissolving metal and suspending oxides.They don't know when their job
is complete. Sooooooo.... :)"
>interesting to see if you could get good quality joints
>by polishing the parts to be joined and using added flux
>before applying heat.
>
>Wood burning tools can generally achieve 500 F and
>60/40 solder melts at ~476 F.
>
>I'd never recommend this as a normal practice because there
>is not enough thermal headroom to do a consistently good
>job with larger joints and 60/40 solder is inferior to
>63/37 solder for electronic applications, all else being
>equal. Still, it would be interesting, yes?
I didn't know anything about different solders and lower melting
tempersatures. Didn't know they existed, and it never occurred to me
that would help.
>(...)
>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
>>> This video is difficult to watch for folks that
>>> already know how to do electronic soldering because
>>> it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.
>>
>> These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
>> desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
>> who mean well.
>
>I understand the reason why they show the poor technique
>initially. Hopefully, a user would recognize their way
>of doing it and have a chance to correct. This isn't too
>fantastic; I've seen some astoundingly bad technique used
>by techs in companies that you would instantly recognize
>the names of.
>
>I got out of the biz before having to do *any*
>'lead free' electronic soldering. I suspect that one
>could do acceptable repairs with the proper tools.
>I wouldn't expect that the proper techniques would
>change much at all.
Probably not, from what little I know. .
>
>--Winston
micky
wrote:
>micky wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:42:34 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
>> wrote:
>
>(...)
>
>> The second guy acutally has an enalarged photo of the circuit board
>> with several joints marked and the symptoms when each is bad, whn you
>> hold the cursor over the circle! This must be a really common
>> problem.
>> http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm
>>
>> And a big tutorial on bad solder joints and resoldering.
>
>I agree with just about everything presented on that page.
>This relay board is likely to be corroded in the defective
>joints, so I certainly see that removing the old solder
>is a very Good Idea.
>
>However:
> 1) Dab compatible flux on each joint before soldering.
> A) I use standard old rosin flux so I selected a
> matching liquid flux. I apply it from a HDPE
> flux bottle.
> http://assemblyoutfitters.com/images/EC-900-230-Flux-bottle.jpg
> For maximum convenience, the stuff is available
> in 'pen' form too:
> http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/images/83-1000-0186.jpg
I'll look for one of these. I have some liquid flux, but I can't
remember ifit's for electronic soldering, or copper plumbing! I'll
check. It's by Oatey, so I guess it's for plumbing. :-) I'll see
if I can find some flux before Sunday.
> 2) The advice to clean the board with steel wool is
> extremely risky. Fine metal hairs are not something
> you want in an electronic assembly. Use an acid
> brush and a flux bottle full of 50/50 alcohol/naphtha.
I hadn't read that line yet, but I think I would have had sense enough
not to do it. Thanks for warning me.
>
>> But there are wackos who do great detail work too, so I didn't take
>> his oxide story seriously until you guys confirmed it.
>>
>>> In either event, it is critical to apply separate flux
>>> to the joint to float oxides out during the soldering
>>> process. The improvement in quality is substantial.
>>
>> I see.
>
>(...)
>
>> A 2001 Honda Accord EX, but all Hondas for the last 15 years seem to
>> use this part.
>
>(...)
>
>>> Honestly, I dab flux on the joint and reheat. It is quick
>>> and effective. For joints that appear cold after that operation,
>>> I remove the old solder, re-flux and use good quality leaded
>>> solder. (Then *always* clean with a 50/50 mix of alcohol and naphtha).
>>
>> Dang. I never clean joints I have soldered. :( I don't think
>> anyone ever told me to before.
>
>Fluxes work by dissolving metal and suspending oxides.
>They don't know when their job is complete. Sooooooo.... :)
>
>(....)
>
>> Thanks, and thanks everyone.
>
>Please let us know how it goes.
She works almost every day, so iIt's scheduled for Sunday now. The
weather says that Hurricane Irene will be off the coast of Delaware
about that time, but I can't tell if it will be raining hard in
Baltimore or not.
If the weather is good enough, maybe I can let you know by then.
>--Winston
Winston
(...)
> Finally,at age 19 to 23, I bought myself a real soldering iron,
> with replaceble elements and tips.
Good on ya!
> What is it in the solder that eats up my wood burning irons and the
> tips. Oh, you said that in the other post: "Fluxes work by
> dissolving metal and suspending oxides.They don't know when their job
> is complete. Sooooooo.... :)"
I suspect that is the case. Even the mild rosin flux
in 'electronic solder' is an acid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)#Rosin_fluxes
Repeated exposure of the iron tip to acid at high temperature
is bound to cause pitting. As you know, soldering tips are
plated to limit this damage.
>> interesting to see if you could get good quality joints
>> by polishing the parts to be joined and using added flux
>> before applying heat.
>>
>> Wood burning tools can generally achieve 500 F and
>> 60/40 solder melts at ~476 F.
>>
>> I'd never recommend this as a normal practice because there
>> is not enough thermal headroom to do a consistently good
>> job with larger joints and 60/40 solder is inferior to
>> 63/37 solder for electronic applications, all else being
>> equal. Still, it would be interesting, yes?
>
> I didn't know anything about different solders and lower melting
> tempersatures. Didn't know they existed, and it never occurred to me
> that would help.
The flux is magical stuff and proper 63/37 solder
has a somewhat lower melting temperature (362 F)
than the outmoded 60/40 alloy.
Combined, they might have allowed you to make good
quality joints with a marginal iron.
I don't know for sure, though.
>> (...)
>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
>>>> This video is difficult to watch for folks that
>>>> already know how to do electronic soldering because
>>>> it illustrates some really bad technique, initially.
>>>
>>> These are the reason I didnt' trust what I'd read about having to
>>> desolder before resoldering. A lot of bad info out there, by people
>>> who mean well.
>>
>> I understand the reason why they show the poor technique
>> initially. Hopefully, a user would recognize their way
>> of doing it and have a chance to correct. This isn't too
>> fantastic; I've seen some astoundingly bad technique used
>> by techs in companies that you would instantly recognize
>> the names of.
>>
>> I got out of the biz before having to do *any*
>> 'lead free' electronic soldering. I suspect that one
>> could do acceptable repairs with the proper tools.
>> I wouldn't expect that the proper techniques would
>> change much at all.
>
> Probably not, from what little I know. .
You've got a lot of information available via the web.
You should filter out the nonsense and be able to
produce good quality solder joints easily, quickly
and consistently.
We are *all* learning!
--Winston
Alien
<news:4e55a2a4$0$2567$703f...@news.kpn.nl>:
> Dave U. Random wrote:
> cut
>> Too bad yer mother
> cut
>
> Do you copy/paste this abuse shit?
No.
> Why advertise that you are totally deprived of social skills?
Read it again, Noorder (that's Dutch for stoooppiiidd). I'm
advertising that Willy is totally deprived of social skills, and has
been for nigh-well over a decade.
Perhaps you'd do better to go to one of yer famous Amsterdam
pothouses, toke up, then go blow a goat, as is yer nightly ritual.
--
___ ___ ___ ___
/\ \ /\__\ ___ /\ \ /\__\
/::\ \ /:/ / /\ \ /::\ \ /::| |
/:/\:\ \ /:/ / \:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:|:| |
/::\~\:\ \ /:/ / /::\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__
/:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/__/ __/:/\/__/ /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\
\/__\:\/:/ / \:\ \ /\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ /
\::/ / \:\ \ \::/__/ \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ /
/:/ / \:\ \ \:\__\ \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
/:/ / \:\__\ \/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
\/__/ \/__/ \/__/ \/__/
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/e52ffbb346f5b764
Message-ID: <ac995ab01f76a177...@rip.ax.lt>
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/a94a2a11df601e39
Message-ID: <f6ccd46e74bff6e9...@rip.ax.lt>
2}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/civil/civil_display_docket_main?case_year_no=2009-3533&litigant_txt=Griffith
--------------------
--------------------
Mother:
----------------------------.
Catherine & Angelo Griffith
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-494-5785
'----------------------------'
Daughter:
----------------------------.
Julia M. Griffith
308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023
'----------------------------'
Sister:
----------------------------------------.
Pamela L. & Roger R. Werling
{ son Todd E. Werling (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ son Chris (Kennesaw, GA) }
{ son Keith (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ grandson Easton }
{ grandson Zakary }
{ granddaughter Camella }
7704 Bisque Court
Fort Wayne, IN 46825-3501
260-489-6086
'----------------------------------------'
Sister:
----------------------------------------------.
Cheryl J. & Jason 'Sparky' Humberto E. Rivera
{ daughter Christina }
{ daughter Rosalio (North Canton, OH) }
{ daughter Maria (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Len Gray (Ft. Worth, TX) }
5225 Echo Valley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-9702
----------------------------------------------
Belden Village Music
6787 Wales Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720
beldenvillagemusic.com
330-497-9292
----------------------------------------------
Rosalio B & Maria I Rivera
444 Wales Rd. NE
Massillon, OH 44646-5875
330-833-4291
----------------------------------------------
PO Box 35093
Canton, OH 44735
'----------------------------------------------'
Sister:
---------------------------------------.
Carol L. & Ric A. Campbell
{ son Richard }
{ son Christopher (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Brandon († 30 May 1996) }
{ daughter Erin }
6794 William Tell Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6546
330-497-7980
330-499-5107
---------------------------------------
PO Box 36473
Canton, OH 44735
'---------------------------------------'
Sister:
----------------------------------.
Christine H. & Shelton M. Vick
{ son Matthew }
3915 Harvard Ave NW
Canton, OH 44709-1538
330-493-5645
----------------------------------
Re/Max Edge Realty
North Canton / Massillon / Canton
Realtor Christine H. Vick
6929 Portage St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6535
330-236-5100
888-830-6509 (fax)
330-904-0883 (cell)
www.MyOhioHomeFinder.com
MyOhioHo...@gmail.com
'----------------------------------'
Sister:
----------------------------.
Angela C. & Mark Warshefski
11 SE 12th St.
Pompano Beach, FL 33060
954-785-4716
----------------------------
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-942-0584
'----------------------------'
Cousin:
-------------------------.
Eddy Dailey
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
-------------------------
Bergholz Financial Corp.
dba SuperMart
PO Box 545
524 Garfield St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------------'
Cousin:
--------------------.
Donna L. Dailey
524 5th St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2416
--------------------
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
--------------------
Bergholz, OH EMT
'--------------------'
Cousin:
-------------------.
Bill & Joyce Leas
{ son Billy }
243 2nd St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------'
Niece:
---------------------------.
Rachel & Adam T. Livengood
{ son Lukas }
{ daughter Lauren }
6342 Palmer Dr. NW
Canton, OH 44718
330-497-7754
'---------------------------'
Izzatchoo, or yer dead daddy?
--------------------------------.
William M. Griffith
between 3rd and 4th St.
between Monroe and Lincoln Ave.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2539
'--------------------------------'
What would yer landlord for 308 10th St. NE,
North Canton, OH say if they learned yer secrets?
----------------------------.
David S. and Joan R. Shaner
2095 Waterbury Dr.
Uniontown OH 44312
330-699-4042
'----------------------------'
What would the employees at yer family's
business say if they learned yer secrets?
Jeffrey Angus
> I suspect that is the case. Even the mild rosin flux
> in 'electronic solder' is an acid:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)#Rosin_fluxes
>
> Repeated exposure of the iron tip to acid at high temperature
> is bound to cause pitting. As you know, soldering tips are
> plated to limit this damage.
The problem with solder is it chemically bonds to the copper.
Good for the connections, bad for the copper on the iron tip.
After a period of time, enough copper has migrated from the tip
to the molten solder. Instant pit.
Nothing at all to do with the alleged acid content of the flux.
Jeff
--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"
Winston
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
Savbit, Savbit 1, Sav1. Minimizes dissolution of copper.
Originally designed to reduce erosion of the soldering iron tips.
About 100 times slower erosion of copper than ordinary tin/lead
alloys.
Suitable for soldering thin copper platings and very thin copper wires.
That'll be what I learnt today. Thanks!
--Winston
Winston
(...)
> I'll look for one of these. I have some liquid flux, but I can't
> remember ifit's for electronic soldering, or copper plumbing! I'll
> check. It's by Oatey, so I guess it's for plumbing. :-) I'll see
> if I can find some flux before Sunday.
If you were near Silicon Gulch in CA, I would give you
a bottle of the stuff I use. It's a great match to my
solder, Kester 186.
(...)
> If the weather is good enough, maybe I can let you know by then.
Excellent!
--Winston
William Sommerwerck
news:hsu557hoo1k9d4nlg...@4ax.com...
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
> "Removal of old solder: As much of the old solder as possible was
> removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
> re-flow the old solder, but this method is better."
It's the way I've always done it.
Sometimes you can get away with adding a bit of fresh solder -- or better,
flux. But cleaning the joint is the preferred method.
micky
Well, I learn something new ervery day.
I guess I've been doing this wrong for 50 years, but this time I'm
going to resolder a relay from my neighbor, and I don't want her
getting stuck, as she was last Monday, so my standards are higher than
they would be for myself. .
But I guess now that I know better, I'lll do it this way for myself
too.
Thanks, William, and everyone.
BTW, I could find liquid flux nearby, in time for the repair tomorrow,
so I got flux paste. I thought I'd put a little on with a toothpick
or matchstick?? If the hurrican means I don't work on the car
tomorrow, should I go 10 miles farther to buy liquid flux?
Winston
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:12:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
(...)
>> Sometimes you can get away with adding a bit of fresh solder -- or better,
>> flux. But cleaning the joint is the preferred method.
Why limit yourself?
All four are the preferred method.
Remove old, Flux, Solder, Clean.
> Well, I learn something new ervery day.
>
> I guess I've been doing this wrong for 50 years, but this time I'm
> going to resolder a relay from my neighbor, and I don't want her
> getting stuck, as she was last Monday, so my standards are higher than
> they would be for myself. .
>
> But I guess now that I know better, I'lll do it this way for myself
> too.
Try it! You will be delighted.
(...)
> BTW, I could find liquid flux nearby, in time for the repair tomorrow,
> so I got flux paste. I thought I'd put a little on with a toothpick
> or matchstick?? If the hurrican means I don't work on the car
> tomorrow, should I go 10 miles farther to buy liquid flux?
Flux paste will work fine as long as:
1) It matches the flux in your properly selected
solder. (R, RMA or RA rosin in both cases).
2) You daub it on generously with an acid brush,
covering the joint in question.
3) You clean the resulting joint carefully.
The beauty of the liquid rosin flux is that it's
difficult to supply *too little* to the joint.
--Winston
Michael A. Terrell
micky wrote:
>
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:12:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >"micky" <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> >news:hsu557hoo1k9d4nlg...@4ax.com...
> >> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
> >
> >> "Removal of old solder: As much of the old solder as possible was
> >> removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
> >> re-flow the old solder, but this method is better."
> >
> >It's the way I've always done it.
> >
> >Sometimes you can get away with adding a bit of fresh solder -- or better,
> >flux. But cleaning the joint is the preferred method.
>
>
> I guess I've been doing this wrong for 50 years, but this time I'm
> going to resolder a relay from my neighbor, and I don't want her
> getting stuck, as she was last Monday, so my standards are higher than
> they would be for myself. .
>
> But I guess now that I know better, I'lll do it this way for myself
> too.
>
> Thanks, William, and everyone.
>
> BTW, I could find liquid flux nearby, in time for the repair tomorrow,
> so I got flux paste. I thought I'd put a little on with a toothpick
> or matchstick?? If the hurrican means I don't work on the car
> tomorrow, should I go 10 miles farther to buy liquid flux?
You want a good, mild RMA flux, not just liquid rosin. My favorite
was Kester 1544, but I think they dropped that formula now that they
concentrate on reflow solder products.
The proper method depends on what caused the failure. If it was
properly wetted, but cracked around the pin becasue the board is single
sided, a drop of fresh flux and a drop of new solder is fine. If it was
caused by bad plating seperating from the pin, or poor soldering without
proper wetting when it was made you will need to remove the old solder
and clean the pins.
micky
Thanks.
I don't know about future cases, but in this one** they say it's
because it's in the passenger compartment and gets hot then cold every
day in the summer, and cold then not every day in the winter. Plus
the viibrations.
The temporary remedy was to open the car doors and let it cool off
inside. (Although it wasn't a very hot day. It's run fine for the
last week, also not very hot days. But it was in the 90's and
hundreds for 4 to 6 weeks before this started.))
Nothing I read commented on the original solder job, IMO probably
because they can't tell and most of them own Hondas and don't want to
think it was made badly in the first place.
**which is such a common probelm it has several detailed webpages by
different authors devoted to it (the "main relay" of a Honda, which
contains the fuel injector/engine control computer relay and the fuel
pump relay)
Michael A. Terrell
micky wrote:
>
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:24:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
> ?
> ?micky wrote:
> ??
> ?? On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 08:12:38 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> ?? ?grizzle...@comcast.net? wrote:
> ??
> ?? ?"micky" ?NONONO...@bigfoot.com? wrote in message
> ?? ?news:hsu557hoo1k9d4nlg...@4ax.com...
> ?? ?? http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayfix/index.html
> ?? ?
> ?? ?? "Removal of old solder: As much of the old solder as possible was
> ?? ?? removed in preparation for re-soldering. It is possible to simply
> ?? ?? re-flow the old solder, but this method is better."
> ?? ?
> ?? ?It's the way I've always done it.
> ?? ?
> ?? ?Sometimes you can get away with adding a bit of fresh solder -- or better,
> ?? ?flux. But cleaning the joint is the preferred method.
> ??
> ?? Well, I learn something new every day.
> ??
> ?? I guess I've been doing this wrong for 50 years, but this time I'm
> ?? going to resolder a relay from my neighbor, and I don't want her
> ?? getting stuck, as she was last Monday, so my standards are higher than
> ?? they would be for myself. .
> ??
> ?? But I guess now that I know better, I'lll do it this way for myself
> ?? too.
> ??
> ?? Thanks, William, and everyone.
> ??
> ?? BTW, I could find liquid flux nearby, in time for the repair tomorrow,
> ?? so I got flux paste. I thought I'd put a little on with a toothpick
> ?? or matchstick?? If the hurrican means I don't work on the car
> ?? tomorrow, should I go 10 miles farther to buy liquid flux?
> ?
> ?
> ? You want a good, mild RMA flux, not just liquid rosin. My favorite
> ?was Kester 1544, but I think they dropped that formula now that they
> ?concentrate on reflow solder products.
> ?
> ? The proper method depends on what caused the failure. If it was
> ?properly wetted, but cracked around the pin becasue the board is single
> ?sided, a drop of fresh flux and a drop of new solder is fine. If it was
> ?caused by bad plating seperating from the pin, or poor soldering without
> ?proper wetting when it was made you will need to remove the old solder
> ?and clean the pins.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I don't know about future cases, but in this one** they say it's
> because it's in the passenger compartment and gets hot then cold every
> day in the summer, and cold then not every day in the winter. Plus
> the viibrations.
>
> The temporary remedy was to open the car doors and let it cool off
> inside. (Although it wasn't a very hot day. It's run fine for the
> last week, also not very hot days. But it was in the 90's and
> hundreds for 4 to 6 weeks before this started.))
>
> Nothing I read commented on the original solder job, IMO probably
> because they can't tell and most of them own Hondas and don't want to
> think it was made badly in the first place.
Most of them aren't likely to know anything more than which end of
the hot soldering iron to pick up, let alone the various failure modes
of soldered connections.
> **which is such a common probelm it has several detailed webpages by
> different authors devoted to it (the "main relay" of a Honda, which
> contains the fuel injector/engine control computer relay and the fuel
> pump relay)
Smitty Two
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> You want a good, mild RMA flux, not just liquid rosin. My favorite
> was Kester 1544, but I think they dropped that formula now that they
> concentrate on reflow solder products.
1544 is still around. A gallon is about $50 and would last your average
DIY guy about 800 years, if it weren't for the fact that the volatiles
seep through the plastic bottle.
Michael A. Terrell
Smitty Two wrote:
>
> In article ?eJidnYhXQd0W88TT...@earthlink.com?,> ? You want a good, mild RMA flux, not just liquid rosin. My favorite
> ? was Kester 1544, but I think they dropped that formula now that they
> ? concentrate on reflow solder products.
>
> 1544 is still around. A gallon is about $50 and would last your average
> DIY guy about 800 years, if it weren't for the fact that the volatiles
> seep through the plastic bottle.
My last bottle is about 25 years old. I bought four quart bottles of
it for $2.50 each from a surplus store in Dayton, Ohio. The others have
been used up.
micky
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Nothing I read commented on the original solder job, IMO probably
>> because they can't tell and most of them own Hondas and don't want to
>> think it was made badly in the first place.
>
>
> Most of them aren't likely to know anything more than which end of
>the hot soldering iron to pick up, let alone the various failure modes
>of soldered connections.
Right. I'm happy they know which part is bad, roughly how to fix
it, and the write webpages for people like me.
micky
wrote:
>
>
>> BTW, I could find liquid flux nearby, in time for the repair tomorrow,
>> so I got flux paste. I thought I'd put a little on with a toothpick
>> or matchstick?? If the hurrican means I don't work on the car
>> tomorrow, should I go 10 miles farther to buy liquid flux?
>
>Flux paste will work fine as long as:
> 1) It matches the flux in your properly selected
> solder. (R, RMA or RA rosin in both cases).
I hate to say this but none of my solder is marked R, RMA, or RA. The
labels says nothing except that they have rosin.
Radio Shack solder mostly. I've used up other things I had.
Also the Radio Shack flux paste doesn't have an R-rating. It says
nothing about what kind of flux it is.
But the repair today was postponed, so I have time to go farther away
and buy liquid flus. I have another errand to do nearby.
> 2) You daub it on generously with an acid brush,
> covering the joint in question.
I can do that.
> 3) You clean the resulting joint carefully.
I can do that. It's still necessary with liquid, right?
>The beauty of the liquid rosin flux is that it's
>difficult to supply *too little* to the joint.
Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
>--Winston
Smitty Two
micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
Either Rosin Activated or Rosin Mildly Activated will be fine. Don't buy
any acid flux.
But the paste you already have should be fine. If you want it to be
liquid, just mix it with some alcohol. (IPA is fine, but get the pure
stuff if you can, not the 70% stuff.)
If you're soldering iron tip isn't shiny new, put a shiny new tip on it.
It will make a surprisingly large difference in the ease and quality of
your soldering.
Winston
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:23:28 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
> wrote:
(...)
> I hate to say this but none of my solder is marked R, RMA, or RA. The
> labels says nothing except that they have rosin.
Then it is very probably R (rosin only) RMA (rosin mildly activated)
or RA (rosin activated). No worries.
> Radio Shack solder mostly. I've used up other things I had.
>
> Also the Radio Shack flux paste doesn't have an R-rating. It says
> nothing about what kind of flux it is.
If it is the SP-44 stuff, you are in luck
because it is compatible:
http://support.radioshack.com/msds/msd91-484.pdf
> But the repair today was postponed, so I have time to go farther away
> and buy liquid flus. I have another errand to do nearby.
As Smitty Two says, you *can* thin your paste with
99% alcohol. I just find the Kester product to be
very convenient.
>
>> 2) You daub it on generously with an acid brush,
>> covering the joint in question.
>
> I can do that.
>
>> 3) You clean the resulting joint carefully.
>
> I can do that. It's still necessary with liquid, right?
Yes indeed. Extra points are rewarded for cleanliness.
>> The beauty of the liquid rosin flux is that it's
>> difficult to supply *too little* to the joint.
>
> Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
Yup.
Most specifically NOT 'acid' or 'plumbing' flux.
Sorry for shouting but we don't want your relay
to turn green and fall apart.
--Winston
Winston
And to turn a dull, oxidized tip shiny new
with just a few stabs, I highly recommend
the Hakko tip cleaner:
http://www.all-spec.com/products/599B-02.html
It works a treat.
--Winston
micky
wrote:
>
>> Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
>
>Yup.
>Most specifically NOT 'acid' or 'plumbing' flux.
>Sorry for shouting but we don't want your relay
>to turn green and fall apart.
Gotcha! You and Smitty Two.
>--Winston
Phil Hobbs
I'd put in a plug for RA flux. I have a lot of old parts that I still
use a lot (e.g. over 10,000 RN55C resistors), and RA flux makes them
solder like new.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
micky
<pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>On 08/29/2011 03:20 PM, micky wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:15:11 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
>>>
>>> Yup.
>>> Most specifically NOT 'acid' or 'plumbing' flux.
>>> Sorry for shouting but we don't want your relay
>>> to turn green and fall apart.
>>
>> Gotcha! You and Smitty Two.
>>
>>> --Winston
>>
>
>I'd put in a plug for RA flux. I have a lot of old parts that I still
>use a lot (e.g. over 10,000 RN55C resistors), and RA flux makes them
>solder like new.
Okay, I'll see what they sell.
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
Winston
> On 08/29/2011 03:20 PM, micky wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 22:15:11 -0700, Winston<Win...@BigBrother.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Does that also have to be R, RMA, or RA?
>>>
>>> Yup.
>>> Most specifically NOT 'acid' or 'plumbing' flux.
>>> Sorry for shouting but we don't want your relay
>>> to turn green and fall apart.
>>
>> Gotcha! You and Smitty Two.
>>
>>> --Winston
>>
>
> I'd put in a plug for RA flux. I have a lot of old parts that I still
> use a lot (e.g. over 10,000 RN55C resistors), and RA flux makes them
> solder like new.
That'll work!
My fave Kester 186 is RMA and it does a stellar
job as well.
--Winston