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A tale of a cheapo ink cartridge ...
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Arfa Daily
Jul 13, 2014, 9:22:06 PM7/13/14
to
For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks if
you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been using
cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most recent ones
I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even see how much ink
is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges, and the chip on them
says so correctly. I have never had a problem with the printer failing to
recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of the correct colour, and the
usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The following
ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all six of them,
then ...
Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the main
board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I checked
its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one in,
expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about this
one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these HPs also,
and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and asked if he
happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he takes them back to
Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came over today with a bag of
them, so I started by taking all of my cartridges out. As expected, it told
me that all of the cartridges were missing, so I put in an empty colour one
and restarted it. This time, it told me that only five were missing, and the
one that I had just put in was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.
So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Arfa
all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks if
you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been using
cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most recent ones
I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even see how much ink
is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges, and the chip on them
says so correctly. I have never had a problem with the printer failing to
recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of the correct colour, and the
usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The following
ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all six of them,
then ...
Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the main
board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I checked
its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one in,
expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about this
one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these HPs also,
and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and asked if he
happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he takes them back to
Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came over today with a bag of
them, so I started by taking all of my cartridges out. As expected, it told
me that all of the cartridges were missing, so I put in an empty colour one
and restarted it. This time, it told me that only five were missing, and the
one that I had just put in was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
was still ok.
So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Arfa
William Sommerwerck
Jul 13, 2014, 10:16:39 PM7/13/14
to
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:0hGwv.117475$X%6.1...@fx18.am4...
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
> in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
> in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 13, 2014, 11:14:17 PM7/13/14
to
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:22:06 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Find the model number of your HP ink sprayer and perform the reset
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
cerimony. It's usually something like holding down 2 buttons on the
front panel, while straining your back trying to find plug in the
power cord. The printer will lose all its saved settings, but at
least it will work. Also, there may be a soft reset, similar to a
power cycle. If available, try that first. I think it also loads a
backup image of the firmware, so you might need to update that from
the HP web pile. Maybe one of these:
<http://www.out-of-warranty.com/how-to-reset-hewlett-packard-hp-all-in-one-printers/>
Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They range in age from
about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
ink carts. My favorite are the one's the claim the ink has "expired"
even though the cartridge is full.
They should take back HP's only award for ecologically correct inkjet
printers:
<http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/environment/awards.html>
GREENBEST 2011. The MFP HP F4480 printer was named the winner
of a GREENBEST award in Brazil. The printer was chosen based
on its environmentally sound design, use of recycled plastics
in both the printer and HP cartridges, and its ENERGY STAR�
certification.
Retch.
Incidentally, unplug the switching power supply for a minute as those
ocassionally get hung and do strange things.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 13, 2014, 11:29:00 PM7/13/14
to
>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
Nice troubleshooting job. I would not have guessed a shorted
>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
cartridge data bus.
<http://inkjet411.com/?page_id=35>
If it's the 02 variety of cartridges, with just 4 connections, then
it's highly likely to be a simple 2-wire type bus. With only 4
connections, I would guess that 2 are for data, and 2 are for driving
the piezo ink sprayer:
<http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
Brian Gaff
Jul 14, 2014, 4:07:06 AM7/14/14
to
Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0hGwv.117475$X%6.1...@fx18.am4...
people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0hGwv.117475$X%6.1...@fx18.am4...
Brian Gaff
Jul 14, 2014, 4:08:23 AM7/14/14
to
Ahe but we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.
news:lpveie$n98$1...@dont-email.me...
encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
time down the line.
Brian
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
news:lpveie$n98$1...@dont-email.me...
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 4:51:44 AM7/14/14
to
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lpveie$n98$1...@dont-email.me...
'simple' problem, but might take hours to locate. As it was my own, and my
time is my own, in this case I thought it was worth it ...
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 4:53:37 AM7/14/14
to
>
> --
> From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:lpveie$n98$1...@dont-email.me...
>> "Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:0hGwv.117475$X%6.1...@fx18.am4...
>>> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked
>>> in the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>>
>> The problem was simple, but look at the effort to correctly diagnose it.
>
>
>
news:lq035m$s3n$1...@dont-email.me...
> Ahe but we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
> encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and
> save time down the line.
> Brian
Quite so, Brian, which is why I bothered to tell the story to all the good
> encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and
> save time down the line.
> Brian
folk on these two groups ... :-)
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 4:58:03 AM7/14/14
to
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:gth6s95a045plv243...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:22:06 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
>>the
>>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
> Find the model number of your HP ink sprayer and perform the reset
> cerimony. It's usually something like holding down 2 buttons on the
> front panel, while straining your back trying to find plug in the
> power cord. The printer will lose all its saved settings, but at
> least it will work. Also, there may be a soft reset, similar to a
> power cycle. If available, try that first. I think it also loads a
> backup image of the firmware, so you might need to update that from
> the HP web pile. Maybe one of these:
> <http://www.out-of-warranty.com/how-to-reset-hewlett-packard-hp-all-in-one-printers/>
I went through all the hard and soft resets first, of course Jeff, but to no
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
>>the
>>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
> Find the model number of your HP ink sprayer and perform the reset
> cerimony. It's usually something like holding down 2 buttons on the
> front panel, while straining your back trying to find plug in the
> power cord. The printer will lose all its saved settings, but at
> least it will work. Also, there may be a soft reset, similar to a
> power cycle. If available, try that first. I think it also loads a
> backup image of the firmware, so you might need to update that from
> the HP web pile. Maybe one of these:
> <http://www.out-of-warranty.com/how-to-reset-hewlett-packard-hp-all-in-one-printers/>
avail. Then I found the bad cap of which there is plenty of tell on the net.
But as I said at the end, the ultimate problem turned out to be the chip
itself on the dark magenta cartridge. The problem looked for all the world
like it was related to the printer hardware, when all the time, it was an
electronic problem with a cartridge.
Incidentally, it's a C5180
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 5:01:21 AM7/14/14
to
news:90j6s9taeu3vci14g...@4ax.com...
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
all here ! :-)
Arfa
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:22:06 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
>>wire
>>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
>>read
>>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
>>cartridge,
>>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
>>issues
>>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>
> Nice troubleshooting job. I would not have guessed a shorted
> cartridge data bus.
> <http://inkjet411.com/?page_id=35>
> If it's the 02 variety of cartridges, with just 4 connections, then
> it's highly likely to be a simple 2-wire type bus. With only 4
> connections, I would guess that 2 are for data, and 2 are for driving
> the piezo ink sprayer:
> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
>>wire
>>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
>>read
>>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
>>cartridge,
>>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
>>issues
>>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>
> Nice troubleshooting job. I would not have guessed a shorted
> cartridge data bus.
> <http://inkjet411.com/?page_id=35>
> If it's the 02 variety of cartridges, with just 4 connections, then
> it's highly likely to be a simple 2-wire type bus. With only 4
> connections, I would guess that 2 are for data, and 2 are for driving
> the piezo ink sprayer:
> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
all here ! :-)
Arfa
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 14, 2014, 5:12:08 AM7/14/14
to
On 14/07/14 09:08, Brian Gaff wrote:
> we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
> encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
> time down the line.
Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace.
> we used to call this kind of thing stock faults in that once
> encountered it would be written up and published for others to find and save
> time down the line.
--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
Tim Lamb
Jul 14, 2014, 7:02:13 AM7/14/14
to
In message <B%Mwv.143739$hL6.1...@fx24.am4>, Arfa Daily
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> writes
snip
>>
>><http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartr
>>idge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180
compatibles (Epson RX420) free to good home. (Epson T055440)
Also wrongly ordered Epson T061540 Office Depot sets of 4. Same deal:-)
--
Tim Lamb
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> writes
snip
>>
>><http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartr
>>idge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180
>>_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>>
>> -- Jeff Liebermann
>
>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two
>wire bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and
>certainly something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I
>bothered to tell all here ! :-)
While we have a few *heads up* on inkjets.... I have some leftover
>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>>
>> -- Jeff Liebermann
>
>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two
>wire bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and
>certainly something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I
>bothered to tell all here ! :-)
compatibles (Epson RX420) free to good home. (Epson T055440)
Also wrongly ordered Epson T061540 Office Depot sets of 4. Same deal:-)
--
Tim Lamb
William Sommerwerck
Jul 14, 2014, 8:16:55 AM7/14/14
to
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:CSMwv.137394$wc.8...@fx25.am4...
No criticism was intended. (I've been through this sort of thing more times
than I care to admit.) Rather, I was trying to draw a contrast between the
simplicity of the problem and the difficulty resolving it.
than I care to admit.) Rather, I was trying to draw a contrast between the
simplicity of the problem and the difficulty resolving it.
William Sommerwerck
Jul 14, 2014, 8:28:20 AM7/14/14
to
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:gth6s95a045plv243...@4ax.com...
> Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
> me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
And this is one of those case where it's needed.
There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise -- specifically,
how long products should last. * This would do a great deal to reduce waste
and short-term "techno-churn". (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy
consumer product. Toasters are generally junk. And let's not talk about shoe
laces.)
The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers me --
yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed. Businesses
should care enough about quality to make "sturdy" products without having to
be forced to do so. And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing got
outsourced to China -- that they did so.
The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.
* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied merchantability
requires products to be of average for their type. Of course, when every
product in a category is junk, the average sinks to a very low level.
news:gth6s95a045plv243...@4ax.com...
> Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
> about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
> to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
> ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
> to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
> even though the cartridge is full.
I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive government.
And this is one of those case where it's needed.
There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise -- specifically,
how long products should last. * This would do a great deal to reduce waste
and short-term "techno-churn". (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy
consumer product. Toasters are generally junk. And let's not talk about shoe
laces.)
The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers me --
yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed. Businesses
should care enough about quality to make "sturdy" products without having to
be forced to do so. And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing got
outsourced to China -- that they did so.
The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.
* Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied merchantability
requires products to be of average for their type. Of course, when every
product in a category is junk, the average sinks to a very low level.
Jabba
Jul 14, 2014, 8:36:05 AM7/14/14
to
William Sommerwerck scribbled...
Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
Jabba
Jul 14, 2014, 8:38:15 AM7/14/14
to
Arfa Daily scribbled...
>
> Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
> bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
> something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
> all here ! :-)
>
As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
first.
>
> Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
> bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
> something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
> all here ! :-)
>
first.
William Sommerwerck
Jul 14, 2014, 8:42:33 AM7/14/14
to
"Jabba" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef...@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...
> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
news:MPG.2e2ddf0ef...@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...
> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
Fredxxx
Jul 14, 2014, 9:07:34 AM7/14/14
to
If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
replacing toner cartridges.
Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 14, 2014, 9:45:43 AM7/14/14
to
My HP colour laser is on its third set of cartridges and yes I have
spent more on cartridges than on the printer, but its still not a huge
amount.
Sub £200 for a networked printer than can handle the whole household.
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 14, 2014, 9:47:22 AM7/14/14
to
Print shop for multiple copies or large prints.
Photo lab for color photos to be wall mounted ..
tony sayer
Jul 14, 2014, 10:39:10 AM7/14/14
to
>One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
>cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
>one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
>last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
>were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
>was still ok.
>
>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>
>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
>Arfa
>
Vairy interesting;)..
>cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one by
>one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the very
>last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
>were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
>was still ok.
>
>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2 wire
>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to read
>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta cartridge,
>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor issues
>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>
>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
>Arfa
>
One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..
We have a HP Orifice jet K8600 and very good it is to even with the
carts refilled down the road and the only thing is if you let it run out
of paper it will then go into silly sods mode and pull through around 10
sheets at once and drag them out printing a bit on each but it does
after a while settle down.
Odd but..
Its networked which is fine for sharing and does A3 which we sometimes
need and does half decent pints on glossy paper
.. All FWIW....
--
Tony Sayer
Capitol
Jul 14, 2014, 11:58:23 AM7/14/14
to
to see if they bring that service to Boots in the UK now that they own it.
Michael Black
Jul 14, 2014, 12:15:05 PM7/14/14
to
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
> people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
> Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
> Brian
>
People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
> Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
> people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
> Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
> Brian
>
are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.
I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
then backed out.
I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.
Michael
Message has been deleted
tony sayer
Jul 14, 2014, 12:21:56 PM7/14/14
to
In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org>,
Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> scribeth thus
Never mind that .. did you find and Naked selfies;?...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28264446
--
Tony Sayer
Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> scribeth thus
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28264446
--
Tony Sayer
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 14, 2014, 12:42:57 PM7/14/14
to
On 14/07/14 17:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
> The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
> away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
> way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.
Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'
Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'
> The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
> away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
> way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.
Similar here. Got a laptop that was 'making a funny noise'
Had been dropped and CPU fan was rubbing..30 seconds to 'fix'
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 14, 2014, 1:22:07 PM7/14/14
to
<http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o>
Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about
1400 pages:
$70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
(I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4
carts).
A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts, and
optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
$30 / 500 = $0.06/page
In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.
jurb...@gmail.com
Jul 14, 2014, 1:31:12 PM7/14/14
to
>"Except of course that the time to fix often exceeds the cost to replace"
It's just about time to stop thinking that way. Many reasons. This rampant consumerism does nobody any good. That new printer, as cheap as it may be, makes a serious profit for the type of people who just love slave labor. OK, in China they rdive cars and have AC, they no longer live in grass huts and shit, fine, but the fact is they are using up resourcs to keep building new stuff.
And the what appens to the old stuff ? I think we know. So the bottom line, no matter how you slice, the US winds up being a fucking dumping ground. In the end, we end up with a bunch of junk that does't work, no jobs and no economy.
Whioch brings us to another impending fact. They are "creating" $80 billion a month for "quantitative easing" which is a ruse, propping up the stock market so people do not (wisely) pull out. That way in the NEXT crash, they get your money too, it is not just the bankers and big investors. And it has to crash. This is more then the military budget folks.
And when it happens, every thing that is imported, which means almost everything, is going to cost alot more.
That should be good for us folk who can fix things. Problem is that we would like to get paid and if nobody has any money they will do what people did in the old days when they didn't have money.
Without.
And then we will have the influx of the petrodollars as more and more countries get sick of them. BRICS has officially announced they are dumping dollars. China buys Iran's oil and pays for it in gold. They are also shying away from the dollar.
If may get to the point where you need a wheelbarrell full of money to buy a loaf of bread, and you know what happened last time.
The US' only choice will be to become a nation of warriors, taking from others even more than today. Every time a bomb drops or an M-16 fires or any of that shit, it is for MONEY. They tell you of the terrible plight of the downtrodden, or wepons of mass destruction, but I know what thy're doing. It's all money, and keeping the dollar propped up. Saddam switched to euros and all the suddn became a threat. Qadhaffi was initiating the introduction of a new currency - the African gold dinar backed by precious metal as opposed to the fiat US petrodollar. Half of the shit they do is persuant to keeping the world's oil businees on the dollar standard.
The jig is up. There is not enough military might to force the world to continue holding our greenbacks. Huge markets like India for example are ging to deal with the Russians. The Iranians are just about laughing at the sanctions, and the Russians are practivcally asking for more. Yes PLEASE hutrt our currency, we are a net exporter which means we can make MORE money. Let it drop for now, pay us more rubles. And then when your stupid asses fall face dowm we will have gained in the end.
Well they do think more than five minutes into the future.
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 14, 2014, 1:36:12 PM7/14/14
to
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 09:07:06 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
>people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
> Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
> Brian
No, that's not why such printers get tossed. The problem is that they
<brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes this sort of thing is often never explained. It does explain why some
>people find working devices in recycling centres, I'm sure.
> Not enough time spent in diagnosis.
> Brian
cost more than they're worth to repair. I charge $75/hr for shop time
(which I'm told is on the low side). Most customers are not willing
to pay more than about 30% of the price of a new replacement to have
something fixed. Therefore, for a $150 retail printer, I can maybe
charge $50 before the customer will decline the repair. For specialty
items, sometimes they'll pay up to 60% of the replacement cost, but
that's rare. So, what can be done for $50 in labor? Very little.
If someone drags in an inkjet, it almost always requires some level of
cleaning. A laser can be cleaned with compressed air in a few
minutes. An inkjet requires disassembly and hand cleaning with a rag
and solvent that usually takes 60 to 90 minutes (and makes a mess). If
all that was wrong with your AOI inkjet printer, would you pay $75 to
$100 just to have it cleaned? Probably not.
So, the alternative is to just toss it. I pickup a few inkjet
printers for various nefarious purposes at the local recycler.
However, the return rate on inkjets has been so high, that they now go
directly into the dumpster.
Kodak tried to solve the problem by making an expensive inkjet
printer, that used cheap refillable carts. Basically, you pay up
front. It was basically a good idea, and should have worked. However,
they forgot that inkjets are inherently messy. It was a difficult
printer to disassemble and clean, and usually ended up at the
recycler. The few that still know how to operate a cleaning rag just
love them and plan to use them forever:
<http://www.pcworld.com/article/2011054/kodak-printers-are-gone-but-the-ink-sells-on.html>
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 14, 2014, 1:39:39 PM7/14/14
to
Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.
Michael Black
Jul 14, 2014, 2:10:48 PM7/14/14
to
On Mon, 14 Jul 2014, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:15:05 -0400, Michael Black wrote:
>
>> I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
>> cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with
>> someone's music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I
>> assumed, precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be
>> something wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed
>> it.
>
> Is there a newer/better model.
>
I suppose so, but that generation iPod gives more storage than later ones.
And I see people selling them used, and still hoping to get some
significant money for them.
> The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
> away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
> way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.
>
I always figure that so long as someone else is paying for the stuff new,
there's nothing wrong with me having a gadget habit. I didn't need a GPS,
but since I could buy one at a garage sale for five dollars, I might as
well.
Michael
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 12:15:05 -0400, Michael Black wrote:
>
>> I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
>> cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with
>> someone's music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I
>> assumed, precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be
>> something wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed
>> it.
>
>
I suppose so, but that generation iPod gives more storage than later ones.
And I see people selling them used, and still hoping to get some
significant money for them.
> The in-laws (SWMBO mob) just but the latest of whatever, and give/throw
> away the old models. We got a TV, suite, patio set and gas barbeqcue that
> way. Nothing wrong with them, except for not being new enough.
>
there's nothing wrong with me having a gadget habit. I didn't need a GPS,
but since I could buy one at a garage sale for five dollars, I might as
well.
Michael
Michael Black
Jul 14, 2014, 2:11:19 PM7/14/14
to
Michael
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 2:27:52 PM7/14/14
to
"Jabba" <Ja...@jobba.org.ku> wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2ddf93e...@nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com...
would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 2:31:06 PM7/14/14
to
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7gN9WoCO...@bancom.co.uk...
>>One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read the
>>cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one
>>by
>>one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the
>>very
>>last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
>>were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
>>was still ok.
>>
>>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
>>wire
>>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
>>read
>>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
>>cartridge,
>>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
>>issues
>>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>>
>>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
>>the
>>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>>
>>Arfa
>>
>
> Vairy interesting;)..
>
> One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..
I ESR'd all the rest, and they were all good ...
>>cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So one
>>by
>>one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok, until the
>>very
>>last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that all six cartridges
>>were missing. I went and got another from my stock and put it in, and all
>>was still ok.
>>
>>So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
>>wire
>>bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the processor to
>>read
>>them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty dark magenta
>>cartridge,
>>must have a short on one of the bus lines so that when the processor
>>issues
>>the addresses in sequence to read each cartridge at boot up, none of them
>>are able to reply so the machine assumes that they are not present.
>>
>>How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
>>the
>>bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>>
>>Arfa
>>
>
> Vairy interesting;)..
>
> One wonders if there was One naff cap, then what others are lurking?..
Arfa
> Tony Sayer
>
>
>
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 3:58:51 PM7/14/14
to
William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote
> Jeff Liebermann wrote
>> Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
>> me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
>> about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
>> to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
>> ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
>> even though the cartridge is full.
> I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive
> government. And this is one of those case where it's needed.
No it is not.
> There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise --
> specifically, how long products should last. * This would do a
> great deal to reduce waste and short-term "techno-churn".
No it would not. You're never going to stop very cheap junk being
bought by consumers now that ebay and amazon make it so easy.
> (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy consumer product.
I don't agree that they are a lousy consumer product. They
are in fact fantastically cheap, particularly when you arent
stupid enough to use the manufacturers' expensive ink.
The price of laser printers so low now that almost
anyone can afford one. I don't use them myself,
because I print so rarely that I just need something
dirt cheap and prefer the color for what I do print.
> Toasters are generally junk.
True, but I fix that by getting them at garage/yard sales for $2
> And let's not talk about shoe laces.)
I don't bother with laced shoes or boots.
> The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers
> me -- yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed.
And it wouldn't work anyway.
> Businesses should care enough about quality to make
> "sturdy" products without having to be forced to do so.
And they do with some stuff like cars and cutlery etc and
with the modern stainless steel stuff that has replaced the
older tin plate stuff that never lasted anything like as long.
> And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing
> got outsourced to China -- that they did so.
They still do.
> The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.
That is nothing like a solution. They would just be ignored.
> * Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied
> merchantability requires products to be of average for their type.
That mangles the law.
> Of course, when every product in a category is junk,
That's never the case.
> the average sinks to a very low level.
I've just recently seen the junk problem with leather
belts, the sort you use to stop your pants falling down.
Plenty to buy for peanuts, but they were all composite
leather which never last long, the belt comes apart into
the components in less than a year or so. Just found
someone who still makes them out of sheets of well
tanned leather, the older traditional single piece of
leather. Not clear why the stuff from china is composite
leather, you'd think that that would cost more to make
even with the low labor costs in china etc.
I'm not convinced that govt regulation
could do anything about leather belts.
> Jeff Liebermann wrote
>> Drivel: One of my customers recently cleaned up his garage and gave
>> me 5 different HP inkjet printers to recycle. They ranged in age from
>> about 10 to 2 years ago. All of them had some stupid problem relating
>> to cheap construction, crappy drivers, miserable firmware, and leaky
>> ink carts. My favorite are the ones that claim the ink has "expired"
>> even though the cartridge is full.
> I have no hesitation in expressing my support of large, intrusive
> government. And this is one of those case where it's needed.
> There ought to be laws regulating the quality of merchandise --
> specifically, how long products should last. * This would do a
> great deal to reduce waste and short-term "techno-churn".
bought by consumers now that ebay and amazon make it so easy.
> (Ink-jet printers aren't the only lousy consumer product.
are in fact fantastically cheap, particularly when you arent
stupid enough to use the manufacturers' expensive ink.
The price of laser printers so low now that almost
anyone can afford one. I don't use them myself,
because I print so rarely that I just need something
dirt cheap and prefer the color for what I do print.
> Toasters are generally junk.
True, but I fix that by getting them at garage/yard sales for $2
> And let's not talk about shoe laces.)
> The problem is that setting up a regulatory agency to do this bothers
> me -- yes, bothers me -- because such regulation shouldn't be needed.
> Businesses should care enough about quality to make
> "sturdy" products without having to be forced to do so.
with the modern stainless steel stuff that has replaced the
older tin plate stuff that never lasted anything like as long.
> And there was a time -- before so much manufacturing
> got outsourced to China -- that they did so.
> The only solution is for customers to start complaining loudly and long.
> * Technically, there is. The common law warranty of implied
> merchantability requires products to be of average for their type.
> Of course, when every product in a category is junk,
> the average sinks to a very low level.
belts, the sort you use to stop your pants falling down.
Plenty to buy for peanuts, but they were all composite
leather which never last long, the belt comes apart into
the components in less than a year or so. Just found
someone who still makes them out of sheets of well
tanned leather, the older traditional single piece of
leather. Not clear why the stuff from china is composite
leather, you'd think that that would cost more to make
even with the low labor costs in china etc.
I'm not convinced that govt regulation
could do anything about leather belts.
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 4:01:08 PM7/14/14
to
Jabba <Ja...@jobba.org.ku> wrote
> Arfa Daily wrote
Easy to be wise after the event. You wouldn't normally expect it to
be the carts when the printer claims they have all gone bad at once.
Corse like with all faults like that, you kick yourself when you know what
the problem is.
> Arfa Daily wrote
be the carts when the printer claims they have all gone bad at once.
Corse like with all faults like that, you kick yourself when you know what
the problem is.
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 4:02:31 PM7/14/14
to
>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
And even if you don't want color, they are still much cheaper
> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
than any alternative if you don't print much but do print a bit.
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 4:12:31 PM7/14/14
to
Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
Mine arent.
> William Sommerwerck wrote
>> Jabba wrote
>> Jabba wrote
>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
Jabba
Jul 14, 2014, 4:17:12 PM7/14/14
to
Arfa Daily scribbled...
> >>
> >
> > As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
> > first.
> >
>
> Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
> would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
> of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
> cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
> was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
> some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
> have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)
>
I've learned to look at the simple stuff first - electrical fault - is
it plugged in, batteries flat, etc, etc.
> >>
> >
> > As you were using cheapo carts, I'm surprised you didn't look at them
> > first.
> >
>
> Well, hindsight is, as we all know, a wonderful thing. But be honest here,
> would you really have immediately thought of a single faulty cartridge out
> of an array of 6, to cause the printer to fail to recognise that *any*
> cartridges were in place ? Also given the fact that it is never turned off,
> was used the day before, and the offending cartridge had been in place for
> some weeks ? Jeff L thought that it was an unusual problem that he wouldn't
> have thought of, and he repairs printers all the time ... :-)
>
it plugged in, batteries flat, etc, etc.
Trevor Wilson
Jul 14, 2014, 5:09:51 PM7/14/14
to
On 14/07/2014 11:22 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
> For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
> all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
> if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
> using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
> recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
> see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
> and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
> the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
> the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
>
> So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
> there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
> Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
> obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
> button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
> power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
> properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
> following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
> six of them, then ...
>
> Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
> there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
> main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
> checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
> in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
>
> A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
> this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
> HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
> asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
> takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
> over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
> cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
> missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
> told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
> was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because
I wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might
kill me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of
the job called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I
dtifully pumped air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more
air in. No pump. I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went
everywhere. It's been ten years and I am still finding ink in places I
never expected.
I hate ink jet printers.
--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
> For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
> all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
> if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
> using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
> recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
> see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
> and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
> the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
> the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
>
> So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
> there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
> Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
> obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
> button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
> power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
> properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
> following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
> six of them, then ...
>
> Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
> there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
> main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
> checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
> in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
>
> A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
> this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
> HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
> asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
> takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
> over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
> cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
> missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
> told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
> was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
>
> One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
> the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
> one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
> until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
> all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
> and put it in, and all was still ok.
>
> So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
> wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
> processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
> dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
> that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
> cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
> assumes that they are not present.
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
> the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
> Arfa
**I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer since
> One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
> the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
> one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
> until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
> all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
> and put it in, and all was still ok.
>
> So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
> wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
> processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
> dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
> that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
> cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
> assumes that they are not present.
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
> the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
>
> Arfa
1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because
I wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might
kill me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of
the job called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I
dtifully pumped air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more
air in. No pump. I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went
everywhere. It's been ten years and I am still finding ink in places I
never expected.
I hate ink jet printers.
--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 5:45:33 PM7/14/14
to
Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote
fine.
> <http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o>
> Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
> Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
> about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about 1400
> pages:
> $70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
> (I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4 carts).
> A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts,
Nothing like that for non genuine carts that work fine.
> and optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
> $30 / 500 = $0.06/page
> In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
> color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.
But you have to use the same carts in the inkjet to compare.
>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
> Is $150 too much for your budget?
Yep, lousy value. I got the last Canon inkjet for $5 at a garage sale, works
>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
> Is $150 too much for your budget?
fine.
> <http://www.brothermall.com/Printers/Model/HL3070CW/Refurbished#.U8QQLUC9Y0o>
> Not the best color laser printer on the planet, but quite cheap.
> Figure on about $70 for a set of 4 replacement clone carts on eBay, or
> about $200 for brand new retail. The color carts are good for about 1400
> pages:
> $70 / 1400 = $0.05/page
> (I refill my own color carts, which costs me about $32 to refill 4 carts).
> A similar ink spraying printer might cost $30 for a set of carts,
> and optimistically print 500 pages (usually less).
> $30 / 500 = $0.06/page
> In other words, the cost of ink/toner is slightly cheaper for the
> color laser printer, if you use refilled and clone carts and toner.
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 14, 2014, 5:48:06 PM7/14/14
to
It's the notebook wedged on top of the escape key.
Jeff Layman
Jul 14, 2014, 5:57:23 PM7/14/14
to
On 14/07/2014 02:22, Arfa Daily wrote:
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
> bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
It might not have been so simple if you'd updated the drivers recently.
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in the
> bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
I have an oldish Samsung laser printer (ML-1640). It came with a
cut-down cartridge When it reached the "average" count of 700 pages, it
reported the cartridge had to be replaced. But I had some unused old
cartridges from a Brother laser printer which still had toner in them.
So I carefully transferred toner from the Brother cartridge to the
Samsung cartridge, and shorted a couple of pins on the chip which
counted the 700 pages to reset it. The laser printer continued to work
without problem after the reset, but it wouldn't have if I'd bothered to
update the printer driver to the next version, as that software stopped
the shorted-chip method from working.
Another good example of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
--
Jeff
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 14, 2014, 5:57:56 PM7/14/14
to
>> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
>all here ! :-)
>Arfa
Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
on a bus between all 6 carts.
>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to tell
>all here ! :-)
Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
on a bus between all 6 carts.
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 6:22:39 PM7/14/14
to
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:c2ivaf...@mid.individual.net...
use non genuine carts from ebay and it worked fine for years and
years.
Randy Day
Jul 14, 2014, 7:48:41 PM7/14/14
to
In article <6bk8s9pn4ljh7p0me...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...
[snip]
> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
> on a bus between all 6 carts.
Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
je...@cruzio.com says...
[snip]
> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
> on a bus between all 6 carts.
gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 8:57:51 PM7/14/14
to
"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2is0h...@mid.individual.net...
I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level of
use and abuse that they get. The only ones that have given me grief, are a
couple of Epsons, which were the worst pieces of shit that I have ever
owned. The problem that I detailed with my current HP, isn't actually a
problem with the printer itself either.
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 9:06:27 PM7/14/14
to
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:bb58s91aijh3c4l79...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>tell
>>all here ! :-)
>
> Thanks. I learned something new.
>
> Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
> ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
I do, and I'll see what can be read across the contacts. Since we decided
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>tell
>>all here ! :-)
>
> Thanks. I learned something new.
>
> Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
> ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
what the contacts might be, I've had another little think about that, and
have now decided that it's not piezo drive on two of them, because these are
HP cartridges without the heads built in. Straight vanilla ink only. So how
about supply, ground, and two-wire bus ?
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 9:07:44 PM7/14/14
to
news:6bk8s9pn4ljh7p0me...@4ax.com...
Arfa
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>
>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>tell
>>all here ! :-)
>>Arfa
>
> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
> on a bus between all 6 carts.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>
>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>tell
>>all here ! :-)
>>Arfa
>
> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
> on a bus between all 6 carts.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 9:08:49 PM7/14/14
to
"Randy Day" <rand...@sasktel.netx> wrote in message
news:MPG.2e2e28558...@aioe.org...
Arfa
Arfa Daily
Jul 14, 2014, 9:16:13 PM7/14/14
to
>
> **I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer since
> 1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually because I
> wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always been sorry.
> Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal fax machine for
> an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically high prices for
> black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet refiller kits. I
> figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room one evening (100%
> wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided that SWMBO might kill
> me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the workshop. Part of the job
> called for pressurising the cartridge after re-filling. I dtifully pumped
> air into the cartridge. No print. I pumped a little more air in. No pump.
> I pumped a little more air in and BANG. Ink went everywhere. It's been ten
> years and I am still finding ink in places I never expected.
>
> I hate ink jet printers.
>
>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
this HP so cheap that it's not worth arsing about doing re-fills.
While you're on, don't suppose you've got a schematic for a Mackie SRM1801
sub have you ? Have combed the net, but nothing lodged with any of the usual
suspects. It has a permanent overload LED, although it seems to be an
indicational problem as otherwise, it works just fine.
Arfa
Randy Day
Jul 14, 2014, 10:42:43 PM7/14/14
to
In article <Ba%wv.337455$f_5.3...@fx08.am4>, arfa....@ntlworld.com
says...
[snip]
> > Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
> > gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
> >
>
> No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??
Yes.
We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
needs 2 external resistors to operate.
We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
you'd have to measure the voltages on each
line.
I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
says...
[snip]
> > Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
> > gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
> >
>
> No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??
We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
needs 2 external resistors to operate.
We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
you'd have to measure the voltages on each
line.
I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
Rod Speed
Jul 14, 2014, 11:51:03 PM7/14/14
to
Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.
Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
all with some sort of electronics failure.
I do know of a few that have ended up with a clogged
print head with other brands and found it unviable to
replace it and have just bought a new one.
> The only ones that have given me grief, are
> a couple of Epsons, which were the worst
> pieces of shit that I have ever owned.
Yeah, I have heard that about them too.
No one I know has ever had one tho.
> The problem that I detailed with my current HP,
> isn't actually a problem with the printer itself either.
True. I've been meaning to google your fault
but haven't got around to doing that yet.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>> Jabba wrote
>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
>>> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>> Mine arent.
> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
> the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
> reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.
I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had
>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>> Jabba wrote
>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
>>> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>> Mine arent.
> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
> the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
> reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.
the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.
Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
all with some sort of electronics failure.
I do know of a few that have ended up with a clogged
print head with other brands and found it unviable to
replace it and have just bought a new one.
> The only ones that have given me grief, are
> a couple of Epsons, which were the worst
> pieces of shit that I have ever owned.
No one I know has ever had one tho.
> The problem that I detailed with my current HP,
> isn't actually a problem with the printer itself either.
but haven't got around to doing that yet.
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 15, 2014, 12:15:31 AM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:07:44 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
>Arfa
You're probably right. There are no piezo driver wires, as I
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
>Arfa
originally thought because the head is not part of the ink cart.
(Sorry, I guessed wrong in a previous message). So, that leaves
power, ground, and two wires for data. I don't have a protocol
analyzer (that works) but can look at the bus with a scope. The ink
carts are not moving, so that should be easy. Probably I2C.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2C>
<http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/bus-pirate>
<https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9544>
Dennis@home
Jul 15, 2014, 3:41:50 AM7/15/14
to
On 15/07/2014 03:42, Randy Day wrote:
8<
> I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
> and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
> ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
>
One end of the cable doesn't move. 8-)
8<
> I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
> and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
> ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
>
tim.....
Jul 15, 2014, 4:29:05 AM7/15/14
to
news:c2jmsb...@mid.individual.net...
what do you guys do to get through so many?
tim
> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>> Jabba wrote
>
>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>
>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>
>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>
>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>
>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
>>>> replacing toner cartridges.
>
>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>
>>> Mine arent.
>
>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs that
>> I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level
>> of use and abuse that they get.
>
> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure just
> recently, of the main logic card.
> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of electronics
> failure.
I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>> Jabba wrote
>
>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>
>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>
>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>
>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>
>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost of
>>>> replacing toner cartridges.
>
>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>
>>> Mine arent.
>
>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs that
>> I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the level
>> of use and abuse that they get.
>
> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure just
> recently, of the main logic card.
> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of electronics
> failure.
what do you guys do to get through so many?
tim
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 15, 2014, 5:09:51 AM7/15/14
to
On 15/07/14 09:29, tim..... wrote:
> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
>
> what do you guys do to get through so many?
Printer 1. Struck by lightning* and repaired under 'warranty' since
> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
>
> what do you guys do to get through so many?
repairing it cost more than a new printer.
Printer 1a; died when cat urinated into it.
Printer 2 bought off ebay to directly replace it. Now retired..
Printer 3 bought to draw house plans on - A1 inkjet. Now on permanent
loan to someone who needs it.
Printer 4 Color laserjet bought to do A4 colour proofing. Replaced
Printer 2.
*overhead phone line: direct strike. Phone connected to modem connected
to serial parallel card connected to printer.
Computer survived, card, modem and printer did not. Ancient Ex rental TV
BER as well but managed to get v expensive parallel tracking record deck
repaired. Everything else survived apart from sockets blown out of walls
and some mains wire arcing to ground.
House rewired at insistence of insurance company.
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 5:43:43 AM7/15/14
to
tim..... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
> what do you guys do to get through so many?
With most of them the technology moved on.
The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
$5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>>> Jabba wrote
>>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
>>>>> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
>>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>>>> Mine arent.
>>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
>>> the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
>>> reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.
>> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had
>> the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.
>> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
>> all with some sort of electronics failure.
> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
Yebbut, your lifetime is a hell of a lot shorter than some of ours.
>> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>>> Jabba wrote
>>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with
>>>>> an eye on the cost of replacing toner cartridges.
>>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>>>> Mine arent.
>>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of
>>> the HPs that I've owned over the years have been remarkably
>>> reliable given the level of use and abuse that they get.
>> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had
>> the one failure just recently, of the main logic card.
>> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now,
>> all with some sort of electronics failure.
> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
> what do you guys do to get through so many?
The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
$5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
Arfa Daily
Jul 15, 2014, 6:53:22 AM7/15/14
to
"Randy Day" <rand...@sasktel.netx> wrote in message
> In article <Ba%wv.337455$f_5.3...@fx08.am4>, arfa....@ntlworld.com
> says...
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
>> > gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
>> >
>>
>> No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??
>
> Yes.
>
> We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
> is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
> of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
> needs 2 external resistors to operate.
>
> We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
> cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
> you'd have to measure the voltages on each
> line.
I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
> says...
>
> [snip]
>
>> > Sounds like some form of I2C; you'd have +v(piezo),
>> > gnd, Clock and Data going to all 6.
>> >
>>
>> No piezo on these cartridges, so Vcc, Gnd and I2C ??
>
> Yes.
>
> We can't rule out a proprietary setup, but I2C
> is a strong possibility; it's built into a lot
> of off-the-shelf microcontrollers, and only
> needs 2 external resistors to operate.
>
> We can't assume that the Vcc going to the
> cartridges is used as Vcc for the I2C lines;
> you'd have to measure the voltages on each
> line.
microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and it
would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
suitable levels for the bus signals as well
>
> I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
> and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
> ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
>
(literally !) at his place ... :-)
Arfa
Message has been deleted
Michael Black
Jul 15, 2014, 9:42:06 AM7/15/14
to
It was horribly slow, didn't do descenders properly, and was about as
cheap as I could get.
1984, a daisy wheel printer, spent about four hundred dollars on it.
Needed it because the dot matrix was no good for anything but rough drafts
and program listings. It was like a typewriter with the keyboard removed
and a serial interface added. It was slow too, fast enough that I
couldn't go and do anything before I had to roll another sheet of paper
in, but slow enough that I'd just wait for that next sheet of paper.
1989 a second dot matrix, only about $300. This one was much faster, and
could do "near letter quality" that was good enough for me. So it
replaced both of the previous printers, the daisy wheel had failed anyway
because some plastic gear had worn out.
1994 about. A used Apple Imagewriter dot matrix printer, paid about $20
for it. I think I still have it, it's the sort of thing (like the first
dot matrix) that would jsut keep running and running. Cost a lot new, you
see that in it's lack of flimsiness. I needed it because I was using a
Mac at the time.
2001, my first inkjet. Paid about $15 at a garage sale, the seller even
warned me that the cartridge needed refilling. So I got a refill kid,
spent about as much as the printer for two fillings. This was an Apple
Stylewriter, still a sturdy printer (and people paid lots for them
originally). I used up the first refill within a month, the novelty of
being able to print graphics fast and easily taking control. But then I
saw that when the ink got wet, it smeared, which meant the second refill
was barely used, and I never used an inkjet since.
2001, that fall. I got a TI I think it was laser printer for $20 at a
school rummage sale. I used it until the toner ran out, more novelty of
laser printing. But, it was an off-brand and old, and since there seemed
to be some printing problem (I wasn't sure if refilling the toner would
fix that or not), I decided not to spend money on refilling it.
About 2003. An HP 4P laser printer, $15 at a Rotary Club "garage sale".
It had a very short page count, the door over the ram expansion slots was
missing and the toner cartridge was a generic (as if the original had been
swapped before the printer was donated to the sale). I used up what was
left of the toner cartridge, and over the next few years was printing
quite a bit, because it was cheap, so I bought two refilled cartridges,
though the second one is still in use a decade or so later. I see no sign
that this is going to die, especially since that period of peak printing
is in the past.
If the laser printer dies, I'd just poke around until I found another one.
Those too are being tossed, I assume in many cases because they are now
cheap and so nobody is fussing over the waste. Since I can find one lying
on the sidewalk, the cost of a refilled cartridge isn't so bad, since
someone else has paid for the printer.
There was a period when I kept bringing home inkjet printers found on the
sidewalk, the plan had been to put one into use for color, but I just
couldn't be bothered. The cost of the cartridges, the reality that I
don't print enough color to use up the cartridges before they dry out, the
fact that the ink smears, even free the inkjet printers aren't appealing.
Though, one time when I needed something like 24Vdc power supply, I found
just what I needed when I opened up one of those inkjet printers.
Michael
William Sommerwerck
Jul 15, 2014, 10:06:38 AM7/15/14
to
Costco and most (I assume) drug stores offer true photochromic prints from
digital files. If you're within reasonable distance from such a retailer, I
don't see the point in owning a color printer -- other than for business
purposes.
digital files. If you're within reasonable distance from such a retailer, I
don't see the point in owning a color printer -- other than for business
purposes.
tim.....
Jul 15, 2014, 11:16:33 AM7/15/14
to
news:c2kbhl...@mid.individual.net...
what relevant is the amount of time that it has been reasonable for
individuals to own their own printer, and my adulthood covers all of that
period
tim
> tim..... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>>>> Jabba wrote
>
>>>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>
>>>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>
>>>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>
>>>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>
>>>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost
>>>>>> of replacing toner cartridges.
>
>>>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>
>>>>> Mine arent.
>
>>>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs
>>>> that I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the
>>>> level of use and abuse that they get.
>
>>> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure
>>> just recently, of the main logic card.
>
>>> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of
>>> electronics failure.
>
>> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
>
> Yebbut, your lifetime is a hell of a lot shorter than some of ours.
That's irrelevant
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote
>>>>>>> Jabba wrote
>
>>>>>>>> Vote with your wallet, don't buy inkjets.
>
>>>>>>> If you want color, there's no inexpensive alternative. Is there?
>
>>>>>> Boots and other online printing services. Even cheaper.
>
>>>>> Not when you include the cost of driving to pick it up.
>
>>>>>> If quantity requires then get a colour laser with an eye on the cost
>>>>>> of replacing toner cartridges.
>
>>>>>> Ink-jets are remarkably unreliable.
>
>>>>> Mine arent.
>
>>>> I have to say that hasn't been my experience, either. All of the HPs
>>>> that I've owned over the years have been remarkably reliable given the
>>>> level of use and abuse that they get.
>
>>> I've stuck with Canons myself and have only ever had the one failure
>>> just recently, of the main logic card.
>
>>> Mate of mine has gone thru 3 Canons now, all with some sort of
>>> electronics failure.
>
>> I've had 2 printers in my lifetime
>
> Yebbut, your lifetime is a hell of a lot shorter than some of ours.
what relevant is the amount of time that it has been reasonable for
individuals to own their own printer, and my adulthood covers all of that
period
tim
Randy Day
Jul 15, 2014, 11:29:35 AM7/15/14
to
In article <53c4db3d$0$26237$c3e8da3$f690...@news.astraweb.com>,
den...@nowhere.invalid says...
[snip]
> > I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
> > and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
> > ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
> One end of the cable doesn't move. 8-)
True, but where's the geek cred in hitting
a stationary target? :)
den...@nowhere.invalid says...
[snip]
> > I leave the logistics (of attaching a meter
> > and/or 'scope probe to a moving print head)
> > ENTIRELY to you! :) :)
> One end of the cable doesn't move. 8-)
a stationary target? :)
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 3:32:11 PM7/15/14
to
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote
> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>> I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge
>> is a simple dedicated microcontroller ...
> But what is the chip on each cart *for* ?
In theory to make it harder to refill the carts.
> My first decent inkjet, Canon iP4000, didn't
> have chips on its carts. Subsequent ones do.
But the non genuine carts come with chips.
> I'd assumed it was so that e.g. Canon could force you to use
> their carts, but the 3rd party people seem able to supply carts
> with chips OK, so I'm left wondering what the point is.
It does stop people injecting more ink into the existing cart.
Not that many bother anymore with the
non genuine replacement cart so cheap.
The industry is clearly making their money on the ink,
not the printers themselves with the low end inkjets.
> Arfa Daily <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote
>> I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge
> But what is the chip on each cart *for* ?
In theory to make it harder to refill the carts.
> My first decent inkjet, Canon iP4000, didn't
> have chips on its carts. Subsequent ones do.
But the non genuine carts come with chips.
> I'd assumed it was so that e.g. Canon could force you to use
> their carts, but the 3rd party people seem able to supply carts
> with chips OK, so I'm left wondering what the point is.
It does stop people injecting more ink into the existing cart.
Not that many bother anymore with the
non genuine replacement cart so cheap.
The industry is clearly making their money on the ink,
not the printers themselves with the low end inkjets.
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 3:50:24 PM7/15/14
to
"Michael Black" <et...@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1...@darkstar.example.org...
all.
> the fact that the ink smears, even free the inkjet printers aren't
> appealing.
I don't bother to print photos at all and if I did, I'd use a commercial
printer.
> Though, one time when I needed something like 24Vdc power supply, I found
> just what I needed when I opened up one of those inkjet printers.
sort of thing because they are packaged properly.
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 4:10:30 PM7/15/14
to
> what relevant is the amount of time that it has been
> reasonable for individuals to own their own printer,
> and my adulthood covers all of that period
LA180 that was as big as a washing machine.
With all of mine the reason I moved on to a different
one was because the replacement did more than what
it replaced. In the case of the last inkjet it was because
it would print on CDs and DVDs as well as paper.
In theory I am still lacking in one area. The inkjet printers
that are later than the latest I have will actually photocopy
the CD/DVD with what is printed on it since they have a
scanner as well as the printer which makes if very easy
to make a copy of a commercial CD or DVD. But since
I don't get software that way anymore or music either,
I don't have any need to do that.
Sjouke Burry
Jul 15, 2014, 4:12:34 PM7/15/14
to
polygonum
Jul 15, 2014, 4:21:05 PM7/15/14
to
On 15/07/2014 21:12, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
Heavy Goods PCs.
>>
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
--
Rod
F
Jul 15, 2014, 4:34:18 PM7/15/14
to
On 15/07/2014 21:12 Sjouke Burry wrote:
[136 lines trimmed]
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
FFS learn to trim.
--
F
[136 lines trimmed]
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
--
F
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 4:51:39 PM7/15/14
to
"Sjouke Burry" <burrynu...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote in message
news:53c58b32$0$22269$703f...@textnews.kpn.nl...
The Natural Philosopher
Jul 15, 2014, 5:20:38 PM7/15/14
to
On 15/07/14 21:12, Sjouke Burry wrote:
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
put a load on the 5V and then pick off the +12 and -12??
> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
Jeroni Paul
Jul 15, 2014, 6:30:13 PM7/15/14
to
I found a color laser printer and a color dot matrix printer, both in good working condition. The laser printer had a paper tickness lever incorrectly set and that was the likely reason to be discarded.
It is amazing the things you can get for free.
On Monday, July 14, 2014 6:15:05 PM UTC+2, Michael Black wrote:
> People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
>
> are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
>
> own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.
>
>
>
> I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
>
> a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
>
> found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
>
> time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
>
> thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
>
> iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
>
> then backed out.
>
>
>
> I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
>
> cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
>
> music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
>
> precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
>
> wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.
>
>
>
> Michael
It is amazing the things you can get for free.
On Monday, July 14, 2014 6:15:05 PM UTC+2, Michael Black wrote:
> People throw things out for secondary reasons, they got a new one, they
>
> are moving and decide it's not worth moving the old thing, they think they
>
> own that cable box or whatever and no longer want it.
>
>
>
> I found a 60gig iPod 2 or 3 years ago, and when I plugged it in, there was
>
> a message about needing to charge the battery. Wait, that was after I
>
> found a cable and plugged it in. But it didn't charge. SOmeone at the
>
> time mentioned needing a higher current source, but I just put the whole
>
> thing aside. Indeed, the same box the iPod was in also had a soldering
>
> iron, so I assumed someone had been planning to change the battery, and
>
> then backed out.
>
>
>
> I came across that iPod again last week, tried it with a "usb charging
>
> cube" and it not only charged up, but plays fine, complete with someone's
>
> music collection, some of which actually interests me. So I assumed,
>
> precisely because this was a good find, that there had to be something
>
> wrong with it. I still can't figure out why someone tossed it.
>
>
>
> Michael
Johny B Good
Jul 15, 2014, 8:39:04 PM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 19:43:43 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
====snip====
>
>The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
>as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
>of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
Wow! I thought I was the only one daft enough to buy such a monster
from my local 'Government Surplus' dealer. :-)
I had to rewire the parallel interface (including adding an inverter
or two) to make it 'Centronics Compatable' for connecting to my
Transam Tuscan S100 Bus machine.
It only printed unidirectionally but the bi-directional version
wouldn't have sped it up very much since the carriage return action
was so swift it was more akin to its predecessor, a Teletype Model 33
ASR.
I think it eventually got replaced by an HP Deskjet 960C and I
eventually hauled it out of my basement 'shack' to sneak it onto the
back of an untaxed wagon that had been illegally parked across the
road for the past couple of months ( I thought that if we'd had to put
up with this eyesore which was seemingly being pointedly ignored by
the authorities for the last two months or so, I might as well get
some utility out of it :-)
I simply didn't do enough printing to stop the heads clogging up
between jobs. I'd have done much better using a good old fashioned
impact dot matrix or daisywheel printer and a small box of re-inkable
ribbons (cartridge or open spool). The price of the consumables for
all inkjet printers is hundreds of times greater than that of the
impact based technology which, imho, is a total disgrace.
>
>I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
Presumably you're talking about Major OEM branded ready built PCs
like Dell and HP/Compaq et al. The latest MoBos I bought brand new
about four years ago still sported the centronics/LPT header to
connect a printer connector backplate to. I suspect this may no longer
be true today. I guess I'll find out in a year or so's time when I
next upgrade my machines.
>
>I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
>work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
>and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
>$5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
>one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
The last inkjet I purchased was a Canon Pixma iP4000 about 5 or 6
years ago which I'd specifically chosen for it's inclusion of the
centronics interface (to match a printserver) and the ability to print
onto CD-R /DVD-R printable media.
I only renewed the 5 ink tanks twice using cheap compatable carts
before I realised home printing with inkjet technology had become a
mug's game (and this was just for black ink printing, no colour photo
follies).
I really only used it to print optical disk media labels to make them
look a little more presentable than the freehand permanent marker
labelling I had used. I only needed to print in black ink but, it
turns out that the black ink cart is totally ignored when printing on
optical disks and the photocolour 'black' mix is forced onto the user.
Once I realised there was no way to get around this reliance on the
colour carts to print onto optical media, its days as a printer were
numbered until I finally finished off the black ink printing to paper.
Now it just sits on it's little table in mute testament to the
futility of inkjet printer technology as sold to the gullible consumer
by the self destructive manufacturers. I'm sure I can't be in a
minority in this regard.
We've had a couple of mono laser printers connected to the LAN over
the past 5 or 6 years, courtesy of my son, now replaced by a colour
laser, also purchased by him. This nicely serves our very modest
printing needs.
Any photos that I might deem worthwhile getting printed will be dealt
with by the likes of Asda or Max Spielman (or whoever) where proper
photo printing technology will provide prints at least as colourfast
as the traditional photo printing from film media (the same chemistry
just raster scanned with laser beams instead of directly projecting an
image from a colour negative).
In my opinion, no home inkjet photocolour grade printer can compete
for cost and quality when asked to print photos. Once you've cast that
'advantage' aside, there's no point in wasting money on another inkjet
except, perhaps, on one designed specifically for printing to optical
media using cheap ink carts (preferably able to use a dedicated black
ink when monochrome is all that is needed rather than force you to
consume an expensive set of colour carts to print the job in photo
black). However, optical media seems to be going the way of the Dodo
(afaiac) so maybe not.
I suppose we're still going to have to 'fiddle' our own fixes to the
'consumerism' driven 'planned obsolescence' of toner carts that rely
on a counter to prematurely declare exhaustion (in one case, according
to the recent BBC programme, "The Men Who Made Us Spend", by a 'safety
margin' factor of three!).
I've no doubt the printer manufacturers will continue to erode
durability of laser printers and carts in their never ending quest to
shake down their 'consumer' and milk the suckers[1] for all their
worth.
The way the Printer Manufacturers are carrying on, the dream of a
"Paperless Office" might finally come true a lot sooner than anyone
would have expected! :-)
[1] Specifically, the suckers referred to in PT Barnum's "There's one
born every minute" quotation that seems to have been taken to heart by
globalised industries and manufacturers.
--
J B Good
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
====snip====
>
>The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
>as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
>of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
from my local 'Government Surplus' dealer. :-)
I had to rewire the parallel interface (including adding an inverter
or two) to make it 'Centronics Compatable' for connecting to my
Transam Tuscan S100 Bus machine.
It only printed unidirectionally but the bi-directional version
wouldn't have sped it up very much since the carriage return action
was so swift it was more akin to its predecessor, a Teletype Model 33
ASR.
I think it eventually got replaced by an HP Deskjet 960C and I
eventually hauled it out of my basement 'shack' to sneak it onto the
back of an untaxed wagon that had been illegally parked across the
road for the past couple of months ( I thought that if we'd had to put
up with this eyesore which was seemingly being pointedly ignored by
the authorities for the last two months or so, I might as well get
some utility out of it :-)
>
>That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
>that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
>that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
I gave up on inkjets long before they 'got cheap'. The plain fact is
>That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
>that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
>that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
I simply didn't do enough printing to stop the heads clogging up
between jobs. I'd have done much better using a good old fashioned
impact dot matrix or daisywheel printer and a small box of re-inkable
ribbons (cartridge or open spool). The price of the consumables for
all inkjet printers is hundreds of times greater than that of the
impact based technology which, imho, is a total disgrace.
>
>I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
like Dell and HP/Compaq et al. The latest MoBos I bought brand new
about four years ago still sported the centronics/LPT header to
connect a printer connector backplate to. I suspect this may no longer
be true today. I guess I'll find out in a year or so's time when I
next upgrade my machines.
>
>I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
>work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
>and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
>$5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
>one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
years ago which I'd specifically chosen for it's inclusion of the
centronics interface (to match a printserver) and the ability to print
onto CD-R /DVD-R printable media.
I only renewed the 5 ink tanks twice using cheap compatable carts
before I realised home printing with inkjet technology had become a
mug's game (and this was just for black ink printing, no colour photo
follies).
I really only used it to print optical disk media labels to make them
look a little more presentable than the freehand permanent marker
labelling I had used. I only needed to print in black ink but, it
turns out that the black ink cart is totally ignored when printing on
optical disks and the photocolour 'black' mix is forced onto the user.
Once I realised there was no way to get around this reliance on the
colour carts to print onto optical media, its days as a printer were
numbered until I finally finished off the black ink printing to paper.
Now it just sits on it's little table in mute testament to the
futility of inkjet printer technology as sold to the gullible consumer
by the self destructive manufacturers. I'm sure I can't be in a
minority in this regard.
We've had a couple of mono laser printers connected to the LAN over
the past 5 or 6 years, courtesy of my son, now replaced by a colour
laser, also purchased by him. This nicely serves our very modest
printing needs.
Any photos that I might deem worthwhile getting printed will be dealt
with by the likes of Asda or Max Spielman (or whoever) where proper
photo printing technology will provide prints at least as colourfast
as the traditional photo printing from film media (the same chemistry
just raster scanned with laser beams instead of directly projecting an
image from a colour negative).
In my opinion, no home inkjet photocolour grade printer can compete
for cost and quality when asked to print photos. Once you've cast that
'advantage' aside, there's no point in wasting money on another inkjet
except, perhaps, on one designed specifically for printing to optical
media using cheap ink carts (preferably able to use a dedicated black
ink when monochrome is all that is needed rather than force you to
consume an expensive set of colour carts to print the job in photo
black). However, optical media seems to be going the way of the Dodo
(afaiac) so maybe not.
I suppose we're still going to have to 'fiddle' our own fixes to the
'consumerism' driven 'planned obsolescence' of toner carts that rely
on a counter to prematurely declare exhaustion (in one case, according
to the recent BBC programme, "The Men Who Made Us Spend", by a 'safety
margin' factor of three!).
I've no doubt the printer manufacturers will continue to erode
durability of laser printers and carts in their never ending quest to
shake down their 'consumer' and milk the suckers[1] for all their
worth.
The way the Printer Manufacturers are carrying on, the dream of a
"Paperless Office" might finally come true a lot sooner than anyone
would have expected! :-)
[1] Specifically, the suckers referred to in PT Barnum's "There's one
born every minute" quotation that seems to have been taken to heart by
globalised industries and manufacturers.
--
J B Good
Johny B Good
Jul 15, 2014, 8:42:18 PM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:06:27 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:bb58s91aijh3c4l79...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>>tell
>>>all here ! :-)
>>
>> Thanks. I learned something new.
>>
>> Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
>> ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann
>
>I do, and I'll see what can be read across the contacts. Since we decided
>what the contacts might be, I've had another little think about that, and
>have now decided that it's not piezo drive on two of them, because these are
>HP cartridges without the heads built in. Straight vanilla ink only. So how
>about supply, ground, and two-wire bus ?
>
That does seem to be the most obvious bus topology (if it's good
enough for USB...).
--
J B Good
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>news:bb58s91aijh3c4l79...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:01:21 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>>tell
>>>all here ! :-)
>>
>> Thanks. I learned something new.
>>
>> Do you still have the bad magenta 02 cartridge? If so, try an
>> ohmmeter test on the contacts. I'm curious if the cart can be tested.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann
>
>I do, and I'll see what can be read across the contacts. Since we decided
>what the contacts might be, I've had another little think about that, and
>have now decided that it's not piezo drive on two of them, because these are
>HP cartridges without the heads built in. Straight vanilla ink only. So how
>about supply, ground, and two-wire bus ?
>
That does seem to be the most obvious bus topology (if it's good
enough for USB...).
--
J B Good
Johny B Good
Jul 15, 2014, 8:59:53 PM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:07:44 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>news:6bk8s9pn4ljh7p0me...@4ax.com...
>>>> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>>>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>>>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>>
>> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
>> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
>> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
>> on a bus between all 6 carts.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann
another pair of wires for power, a la USB, except there's no reason
for it to be limited to a supply voltage of 5v - it could be 12 or 24
volts to allow the chip to control the heater or piezo elements as
well as calculate the ink consumption with a wide safety margin
(factor of 3 or 4, anyone?) to signal the exhaustion point.
The motive for 'chipping' the cartridges may have initially been to
prevent third party refills but once you've gone down this route, it
leaves the possibility open to simplify the wiring in the 'flexible
ribbon cable'.
Modern chip technology makes adding the necessary signal processing
required to simplify the wiring a zero cost option in the cost cutting
exercise of using a cheaper, more durable flexible ribbon cable.
--
J B Good
>news:6bk8s9pn4ljh7p0me...@4ax.com...
>>>> <http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Product/20129/China_Refillable_ink_cartridge_HP02_compatible_for_Photosmart_C5140_C5150_C5180_C5185_C6150_C6180_C715020129121800026.jpg>
>>>> I have such a printer in the office that I can check the connector
>>>> wiring with an ohms guesser (on Tues).
>>
>>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>>tell
>>>all here ! :-)
>>>Arfa
>>>Yep, that's the style of cartridge, and I think the same as you, two wire
>>>bus plus piezo drive. And yes. Shorted bus was a good one, and certainly
>>>something I wouldn't have suspected right off. Hence why I bothered to
>>>tell
>>>all here ! :-)
>>
>> Would you believe a 4 wire bus? I removed the 02 carts from an HP
>> C7250 printer, and ran my ohms-guesser between corresponding pins
>> between cartridge contacts. 4 contacts per cart and all 4 wires are
>> on a bus between all 6 carts.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann
>
>I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
>
I'm with you on this one, Arfa. A 2 wire bi-directional bus with
>I'm still thinking two-wire bus - see my reply to your post above
>
another pair of wires for power, a la USB, except there's no reason
for it to be limited to a supply voltage of 5v - it could be 12 or 24
volts to allow the chip to control the heater or piezo elements as
well as calculate the ink consumption with a wide safety margin
(factor of 3 or 4, anyone?) to signal the exhaustion point.
The motive for 'chipping' the cartridges may have initially been to
prevent third party refills but once you've gone down this route, it
leaves the possibility open to simplify the wiring in the 'flexible
ribbon cable'.
Modern chip technology makes adding the necessary signal processing
required to simplify the wiring a zero cost option in the cost cutting
exercise of using a cheaper, more durable flexible ribbon cable.
--
J B Good
Rod Speed
Jul 15, 2014, 9:27:41 PM7/15/14
to
Johny B Good <johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
>> as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
>> of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
> Wow! I thought I was the only one daft enough to buy such
> a monster from my local 'Government Surplus' dealer. :-)
I bought mine new, but I was flogging DEC LSI-11s with them and
other hardware, mostly to accountants and operations like that.
The LS120 was much heavier and I was never actually stupid enough
to try putting one of those into the back of the Golf by myself.
> I had to rewire the parallel interface (including adding
> an inverter or two) to make it 'Centronics Compatable'
> for connecting to my Transam Tuscan S100 Bus machine.
I used mine on the DEC LSI-11 that I also had at home, serial.
> It only printed unidirectionally but the bi-directional version
> wouldn't have sped it up very much since the carriage return
> action was so swift it was more akin to its predecessor, a
> Teletype Model 33 ASR.
I didn't have one of those at home, just at work.
> I think it eventually got replaced by an HP Deskjet 960C
Mine was initially replaced by an LA50
on the DEC Rainbow that I added later.
> and I eventually hauled it out of my basement 'shack' to sneak
> it onto the back of an untaxed wagon that had been illegally
> parked across the road for the past couple of months ( I thought
> that if we'd had to put up with this eyesore which was seemingly
> being pointedly ignored by the authorities for the last two
> months or so, I might as well get some utility out of it :-)
I've still got at least one LA120 or something in the big pile of stuff.
>> That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
>> that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
>> that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
> I gave up on inkjets long before they 'got cheap'.
> The plain fact is I simply didn't do enough printing
> to stop the heads clogging up between jobs.
I likely print even less than you do and don't
find that the Canon ip3000 clogs up at all.
> I'd have done much better using a good old fashioned
> impact dot matrix or daisywheel printer and a small
> box of re-inkable ribbons (cartridge or open spool).
I wouldn't, basically because I did print quite a few CDs and DVDs.
> The price of the consumables for all inkjet printers is hundreds
> of times greater than that of the impact based technology
Not when you use the cheapest generic carts off ebay.
They in fact cost a lot less than the ribbons for the LA50
used to. It still works but I haven't used it for decades now.
> which, imho, is a total disgrace.
That's why I deliberately bought one of the last of the Canons
that doesn't use chipped carts, for the very low price on ebay.
>> I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
> Presumably you're talking about Major OEM branded
> ready built PCs like Dell and HP/Compaq et al.
No, I have always assembled my own using components.
> The latest MoBos I bought brand new about four years ago still sported
> the centronics/LPT header to connect a printer connector backplate to.
My latest doesn't. Is only a year or so old.
> I suspect this may no longer be true today.
Yeah, it wasn't when I was picking a motherboard,
at least with the other things I wanted.
> I guess I'll find out in a year or so's time
> when I next upgrade my machines.
>> I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
>> work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
>> and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
>> $5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
>> one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
> The last inkjet I purchased was a Canon Pixma iP4000 about
> 5 or 6 years ago which I'd specifically chosen for it's inclusion
> of the centronics interface (to match a printserver) and the
> ability to print onto CD-R /DVD-R printable media.
Yeah, that's the last is the main reason I changed from
the previous BJC-4310SP which likely still works fine.
> I only renewed the 5 ink tanks twice using cheap
> compatable carts before I realised home printing
> with inkjet technology had become a mug's game
I don't believe that, particularly for printing on CDs and DVDs.
> (and this was just for black ink printing, no colour photo follies).
I do prefer to print colored stuff colored. I don't print photos.
> I really only used it to print optical disk media labels
> to make them look a little more presentable than the
> freehand permanent marker labelling I had used.
Yeah, I did it for that reason too. My writing is so bad
that people would whinge about the product key.
> I only needed to print in black ink but, it turns out that
> the black ink cart is totally ignored when printing on optical
> disks and the photocolour 'black' mix is forced onto the user.
I don't get that with the ip3000. I normally print in blue tho for no
particular reason, just looks better than black on CDs and DVDs.
> Once I realised there was no way to get around this reliance on the
> colour carts to print onto optical media, its days as a printer were
> numbered until I finally finished off the black ink printing to paper.
> Now it just sits on it's little table in mute testament to the futility
> of inkjet printer technology as sold to the gullible consumer by
> the self destructive manufacturers. I'm sure I can't be in a
> minority in this regard.
I still print a bit of stuff, but mostly for others who don't have a
printer.
> We've had a couple of mono laser printers connected to
> the LAN over the past 5 or 6 years, courtesy of my son,
> now replaced by a colour laser, also purchased by him.
> This nicely serves our very modest printing needs.
I don't print enough to warrant feeding one of those
even if I got one for peanuts in a garage/yard sale
and they don't print to CDs and DVDs. I print much
more of those than I ever print on paper for myself.
> Any photos that I might deem worthwhile getting printed will be dealt
> with by the likes of Asda or Max Spielman (or whoever) where proper
> photo printing technology will provide prints at least as colourfast
> as the traditional photo printing from film media (the same chemistry
> just raster scanned with laser beams instead of directly projecting an
> image from a colour negative).
True. I just don't print photos at all except when I chose to front the
magistrate after having got booked doing 160KM, to show him that
there was no danger doing that speed there. Didn't end up actually
needing to show him the photos, he let me off after I lied to him.
> In my opinion, no home inkjet photocolour grade printer
> can compete for cost and quality when asked to print photos.
True.
> Once you've cast that 'advantage' aside, there's no point in wasting
> money on another inkjet except, perhaps, on one designed specifically
> for printing to optical media using cheap ink carts
Yeah, that's the reason I got that printer.
> (preferably able to use a dedicated black ink when monochrome
> is all that is needed rather than force you to consume an expensive
> set of colour carts to print the job in photo black).
I just use one of the colors and print in that.
> However, optical media seems to be going
> the way of the Dodo (afaiac) so maybe not.
Yeah, I don't use it much anymore. Can be convenient
to post them, we can post them for the normal letter
stamp. You can do that with SD cards too, but with
the blanks you don't care if they come back or not
and they work better for the techklutzes that usually
can manage to put a DVD into something they have
to play the TV program that they missed or that they
have got me to download for them.
> I suppose we're still going to have to 'fiddle' our own fixes to
> the 'consumerism' driven 'planned obsolescence' of toner carts
> that rely on a counter to prematurely declare exhaustion (in
> one case, according to the recent BBC programme, "The Men
> Who Made Us Spend", by a 'safety margin' factor of three!).
I just ensure that I don't buy those by researching them
properly before buying them, but that has changed a
bit now with that stuff showing up at garage sales
and facebook buy sell swap groups for peanuts.
> I've no doubt the printer manufacturers will continue
> to erode durability of laser printers and carts in their
> never ending quest to shake down their 'consumer'
> and milk the suckers[1] for all their worth.
Yeah, but it will be interesting to watch how
many bother to print much into the future.
I print almost nothing now, just the CDs and DVDs mostly.
The last thing I printed was a blowup of my driver's license
that I needed when claiming some unclaimed money of mine.
Their system did have a decent online form to fill in, but
printed that and wanted a copy of that sort of proof of
identity stuff posted to them. You couldn't upload that.
I've just done something similar for someone I know
who had to submit some documentation for a permanent
resident visa who doesn't have a printer or net service either.
> The way the Printer Manufacturers are carrying on, the
> dream of a "Paperless Office" might finally come true
> a lot sooner than anyone would have expected! :-)
Yeah, it will be interesting to watch.
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> The first of them that I personally owned, an LA180 was as big
>> as a washing machine and I could barely put one in the back
>> of a Golf alone, and I was completely stupid to have done that.
> Wow! I thought I was the only one daft enough to buy such
> a monster from my local 'Government Surplus' dealer. :-)
other hardware, mostly to accountants and operations like that.
The LS120 was much heavier and I was never actually stupid enough
to try putting one of those into the back of the Golf by myself.
> I had to rewire the parallel interface (including adding
> an inverter or two) to make it 'Centronics Compatable'
> for connecting to my Transam Tuscan S100 Bus machine.
> It only printed unidirectionally but the bi-directional version
> wouldn't have sped it up very much since the carriage return
> action was so swift it was more akin to its predecessor, a
> Teletype Model 33 ASR.
> I think it eventually got replaced by an HP Deskjet 960C
on the DEC Rainbow that I added later.
> and I eventually hauled it out of my basement 'shack' to sneak
> it onto the back of an untaxed wagon that had been illegally
> parked across the road for the past couple of months ( I thought
> that if we'd had to put up with this eyesore which was seemingly
> being pointedly ignored by the authorities for the last two
> months or so, I might as well get some utility out of it :-)
>> That was replaced by a much smaller dot matrix printer
>> that I only stopped using when I got the first inkjet printer
>> that produced a much better result and cost peanuts.
> I gave up on inkjets long before they 'got cheap'.
> The plain fact is I simply didn't do enough printing
> to stop the heads clogging up between jobs.
find that the Canon ip3000 clogs up at all.
> I'd have done much better using a good old fashioned
> impact dot matrix or daisywheel printer and a small
> box of re-inkable ribbons (cartridge or open spool).
> The price of the consumables for all inkjet printers is hundreds
> of times greater than that of the impact based technology
They in fact cost a lot less than the ribbons for the LA50
used to. It still works but I haven't used it for decades now.
> which, imho, is a total disgrace.
that doesn't use chipped carts, for the very low price on ebay.
>> I stopped using that when PCs no longer supported the interface.
> Presumably you're talking about Major OEM branded
> ready built PCs like Dell and HP/Compaq et al.
> The latest MoBos I bought brand new about four years ago still sported
> the centronics/LPT header to connect a printer connector backplate to.
> I suspect this may no longer be true today.
at least with the other things I wanted.
> I guess I'll find out in a year or so's time
> when I next upgrade my machines.
>> I replaced that with a decent USB inkjet and had that
>> work fine for years. Its just had an electronics card failure
>> and since I had picked up a spare at a garage sale for just
>> $5 it wasn't worth even changing a failed cap. It's the only
>> one that has actually died rather than become obsolete.
> The last inkjet I purchased was a Canon Pixma iP4000 about
> 5 or 6 years ago which I'd specifically chosen for it's inclusion
> of the centronics interface (to match a printserver) and the
> ability to print onto CD-R /DVD-R printable media.
the previous BJC-4310SP which likely still works fine.
> I only renewed the 5 ink tanks twice using cheap
> compatable carts before I realised home printing
> with inkjet technology had become a mug's game
> (and this was just for black ink printing, no colour photo follies).
> I really only used it to print optical disk media labels
> to make them look a little more presentable than the
> freehand permanent marker labelling I had used.
that people would whinge about the product key.
> I only needed to print in black ink but, it turns out that
> the black ink cart is totally ignored when printing on optical
> disks and the photocolour 'black' mix is forced onto the user.
particular reason, just looks better than black on CDs and DVDs.
> Once I realised there was no way to get around this reliance on the
> colour carts to print onto optical media, its days as a printer were
> numbered until I finally finished off the black ink printing to paper.
> Now it just sits on it's little table in mute testament to the futility
> of inkjet printer technology as sold to the gullible consumer by
> the self destructive manufacturers. I'm sure I can't be in a
> minority in this regard.
printer.
> We've had a couple of mono laser printers connected to
> the LAN over the past 5 or 6 years, courtesy of my son,
> now replaced by a colour laser, also purchased by him.
> This nicely serves our very modest printing needs.
even if I got one for peanuts in a garage/yard sale
and they don't print to CDs and DVDs. I print much
more of those than I ever print on paper for myself.
> Any photos that I might deem worthwhile getting printed will be dealt
> with by the likes of Asda or Max Spielman (or whoever) where proper
> photo printing technology will provide prints at least as colourfast
> as the traditional photo printing from film media (the same chemistry
> just raster scanned with laser beams instead of directly projecting an
> image from a colour negative).
magistrate after having got booked doing 160KM, to show him that
there was no danger doing that speed there. Didn't end up actually
needing to show him the photos, he let me off after I lied to him.
> In my opinion, no home inkjet photocolour grade printer
> can compete for cost and quality when asked to print photos.
> Once you've cast that 'advantage' aside, there's no point in wasting
> money on another inkjet except, perhaps, on one designed specifically
> for printing to optical media using cheap ink carts
> (preferably able to use a dedicated black ink when monochrome
> is all that is needed rather than force you to consume an expensive
> set of colour carts to print the job in photo black).
> However, optical media seems to be going
> the way of the Dodo (afaiac) so maybe not.
to post them, we can post them for the normal letter
stamp. You can do that with SD cards too, but with
the blanks you don't care if they come back or not
and they work better for the techklutzes that usually
can manage to put a DVD into something they have
to play the TV program that they missed or that they
have got me to download for them.
> I suppose we're still going to have to 'fiddle' our own fixes to
> the 'consumerism' driven 'planned obsolescence' of toner carts
> that rely on a counter to prematurely declare exhaustion (in
> one case, according to the recent BBC programme, "The Men
> Who Made Us Spend", by a 'safety margin' factor of three!).
properly before buying them, but that has changed a
bit now with that stuff showing up at garage sales
and facebook buy sell swap groups for peanuts.
> I've no doubt the printer manufacturers will continue
> to erode durability of laser printers and carts in their
> never ending quest to shake down their 'consumer'
> and milk the suckers[1] for all their worth.
many bother to print much into the future.
I print almost nothing now, just the CDs and DVDs mostly.
The last thing I printed was a blowup of my driver's license
that I needed when claiming some unclaimed money of mine.
Their system did have a decent online form to fill in, but
printed that and wanted a copy of that sort of proof of
identity stuff posted to them. You couldn't upload that.
I've just done something similar for someone I know
who had to submit some documentation for a permanent
resident visa who doesn't have a printer or net service either.
> The way the Printer Manufacturers are carrying on, the
> dream of a "Paperless Office" might finally come true
> a lot sooner than anyone would have expected! :-)
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 15, 2014, 10:28:31 PM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:53:22 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
>microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and it
>would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
>suitable levels for the bus signals as well
Yep. That's what I just found. HP C7250 AIO printer.
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
>microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and it
>would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
>suitable levels for the bus signals as well
There are 4 pins on each cart. I'll arbitrarily number them 1-4 from
top to bottom.
1 +3.3v DC
2 Data cartridge --> printer
3 Data cartridge <-- printer
4 Ground
I verified that the +3.3v DC and ground were there full time when the
printer was powered on. The ground pin shows DC continuity to the
shield on a nearby USB jack, which was convenient for grounding the
scope probe. I saw short bursts of data during power up and during
power down. After the data burst on pin 3 (data into the cart), where
was a very short burst on pin 2 from the cartridge back to the
printer. I couldn't capture the bursts because my ancient Tek 422
scope doesn't have storage. That's certainly NOT I2C.
I didn't want to try printing with all the scope probes and
connections attached.
Offhand, the system looks incredibly crude. No clock, no time sync,
no rolling code, no real security. Probably just some bits to
identify the type and color of the cart, and a challenge/response
system to identify that it's a genuine HP car. Oh yes, the date of
manufacture so that HP can declare the carts useless because the ink
has "expired". It wouldn't take much to clone the chips.
However, I have a better idea. It wouldn't be too difficult to rip
the chips off the carts, run 4 wires to a PIC controller, and give the
printer whatever response it needs to keep it happy.
>And I, in turn, leave this to Jeff L who has these things piled high
>(literally !) at his place ... :-)
problem. He's recovering from surgery and needs two bedrooms full of
eJunk cleared out so the daughter in law and the grand brats can move
in and help him out while he recovers. I now have a museum of antique
eJunk, most of which is in immaculate condition. Another customer
moved offices, and used my office doorstep as their recycling and
eWaste depository. I sacrificed one workbench and one desk, turning
both into vertical storage, almost to the ceiling. Hopefully, the
fire marshall will not come visiting.
Michael Black
Jul 15, 2014, 11:32:42 PM7/15/14
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2014, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 15/07/14 21:12, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
>
> put a load on the 5V and then pick off the +12 and -12??
>
But the printer power supply was standalone, not in a box but the board
> On 15/07/14 21:12, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>> Please tell us how to get 24 volts out of PC power supplies..........
>
> put a load on the 5V and then pick off the +12 and -12??
>
mounted on a piece of metal bent at 90 degrees. I though of looking in the
inkjet because I'd noticed that printers often had higher voltages inside.
It was very easy to extract the switching supply.
This is now dated material since there many inkjet printers that have
external supplies, so you can grab one of suitable voltage and use it.
Indeed, with the switch to switching supplies, AC adapters become much
more useful in the past. You get a compact power supply with more current
capacity than most of the old ac adapters, and you can find a wide range
of voltages.
The reality is that the mundane is often the most useful things one can
find in the garbag. That iPod is a neat thing, but I didn't really need
it. That usb to microUSB cable I needed, so it outright saved me some
money. I tend to save AC adapters because they can be used for other
things, but also because you never know when you might bring home some
interesting piece of electronics that needs such and such a voltage.
Micahel
Arfa Daily
Jul 16, 2014, 8:21:46 AM7/16/14
to
news:v9nbs91k9d58gcu3m...@4ax.com...
so that ties in nicely with what you found with your checks, and the
symptoms that it caused my printer :-)
Arfa
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:53:22 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
>>microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and
>>it
>>would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
>>suitable levels for the bus signals as well
>
> Yep. That's what I just found. HP C7250 AIO printer.
>
> There are 4 pins on each cart. I'll arbitrarily number them 1-4 from
> top to bottom.
> 1 +3.3v DC
> 2 Data cartridge --> printer
> 3 Data cartridge <-- printer
> 4 Ground
OK. Did a quick measure on the bad cartridge, and it goes 1.2 ohms 3 to 4,
> <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm assuming that the 'chip' on each cartridge is a simple dedicated
>>microcontroller, so some level of Vcc would be required to run that, and
>>it
>>would make sense to design the chip to run off a rail that would provide
>>suitable levels for the bus signals as well
>
> Yep. That's what I just found. HP C7250 AIO printer.
>
> There are 4 pins on each cart. I'll arbitrarily number them 1-4 from
> top to bottom.
> 1 +3.3v DC
> 2 Data cartridge --> printer
> 3 Data cartridge <-- printer
> 4 Ground
so that ties in nicely with what you found with your checks, and the
symptoms that it caused my printer :-)
Arfa
Dennis@home
Jul 16, 2014, 9:51:10 AM7/16/14
to
If you leave it on the printer will clean itself as needed.
My Brother aio has been sitting there happy for four years now.
It doesn't use much power as all it is doing is keeping the network
alive so it can wake up and print when required.
The ink level goes down slowly but you are talking about years if you
don't print anything. And as it uses optical level sensors you can
refill or use �1.99 carts in it.
Jeroni Paul
Jul 16, 2014, 11:26:00 AM7/16/14
to
That looks like a serial interface using 0-3.3V instead of. -12-12V. An attempt could be made to decode the data by interfacing that to a PC serial port with a MAX232 and trying some settings until some meaningful data shows up. If they used some proprietary encoding instead of ASCII we may be out of luck still a binary analysis could be done.
I also used the parallel port with a software with good results as a digital analyzer.
I also used the parallel port with a software with good results as a digital analyzer.
Martin Brown
Jul 16, 2014, 12:31:13 PM7/16/14
to
On 14/07/2014 02:22, Arfa Daily wrote:
> For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
> all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
> if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
> using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
> recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
> see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
> and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
> the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
> the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
>
> So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
> there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
> Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
> obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
> button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
> power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
> properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
> following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
> six of them, then ...
>
> Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
> there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
> main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
> checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
> in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
>
> A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
> this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
> HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
> asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
> takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
> over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
> cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
> missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
> told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
> was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
>
> One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
> the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
> one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
> until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
> all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
> and put it in, and all was still ok.
I have actually seen the same symptoms with a brand new Canon printer
except that it was the genuine black cartridge that took the entire lot
down. I established this by trial and error after the cartridge OK leds
all went out unexpectedly when I put the black one in. I got a new
genuine black cartridge to make sure I didn't invalidate the warrantee
but it was a faulty supplied with the printer OEM cartridge.
>
> So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
> wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
> processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
> dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
> that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
> cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
> assumes that they are not present.
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
> the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Not just HP where this sort of issue can arise. The first trick is to
take all the cartridges out and then insert them individually.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
> For a long time, my primary printer has been an HP Photosmart series
> all-in-one. It's a 6 ink job, which makes it expensive to replace inks
> if you use the genuine HP article. So, for several years, I have been
> using cheapo eBay inks. They come from China originally, and the most
> recent ones I have been using, have translucent cases so you can even
> see how much ink is actually in them. They are high capacity cartridges,
> and the chip on them says so correctly. I have never had a problem with
> the printer failing to recognise them as a high capacity cartridge of
> the correct colour, and the usage indicator seems to remain accurate.
>
> So, a couple of weeks ago, I come down in the morning, and it's sitting
> there saying "copy abandoned", and the exclamation mark LED is flashing.
> Sure enough, one of the missus's documents is in the top that she's
> obviously been trying to copy before going to work. So I try the cancel
> button - nothing. Nor the on / off button. No buttons work, so I pop the
> power, just expecting to get the usual lashing for not turning it off
> properly. But no. As soon as it gets going, it tells me that "The
> following ink cartridges appear to be missing... " That would be all
> six of them, then ...
>
> Nothing would recover it from this. I had a trawl around on the net, and
> there was a number of mentions of a couple of caps that bulge on the
> main board, so I dived in to check, and yes ! there was one of them. I
> checked its ESR for sport, and it was out the window. I stuck a new one
> in, expecting all to be well, but it was just the same :-(
>
> A friend lent me a printer in the meantime, while I had a think about
> this one. Another friend is a pro photographer, and he has one of these
> HPs also, and I knew that he only used genuine inks, so I rang him and
> asked if he happened to have any empties laying about. He did, as he
> takes them back to Staples, who give you half off in exchange. He came
> over today with a bag of them, so I started by taking all of my
> cartridges out. As expected, it told me that all of the cartridges were
> missing, so I put in an empty colour one and restarted it. This time, it
> told me that only five were missing, and the one that I had just put in
> was nearly empty and should be replaced soon.
>
> One by one, I added 'empty' genuine cartridges, and each time, it read
> the cartridge ok. I eventually got to a full house, and all was well. So
> one by one, I put my cheapo cartridges back in, and all remained ok,
> until the very last one, dark magenta, when back came the message that
> all six cartridges were missing. I went and got another from my stock
> and put it in, and all was still ok.
I have actually seen the same symptoms with a brand new Canon printer
except that it was the genuine black cartridge that took the entire lot
down. I established this by trial and error after the cartridge OK leds
all went out unexpectedly when I put the black one in. I got a new
genuine black cartridge to make sure I didn't invalidate the warrantee
but it was a faulty supplied with the printer OEM cartridge.
>
> So I'm guessing that the comms to these cartridges are just a simple 2
> wire bus, and each colour just has its own address to allow the
> processor to read them individually. I'm also guessing that the faulty
> dark magenta cartridge, must have a short on one of the bus lines so
> that when the processor issues the addresses in sequence to read each
> cartridge at boot up, none of them are able to reply so the machine
> assumes that they are not present.
>
> How easy it would have been for the printer to have just got chucked in
> the bin, for what was ultimately a simple problem ...
Not just HP where this sort of issue can arise. The first trick is to
take all the cartridges out and then insert them individually.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Rod Speed
Jul 16, 2014, 5:58:19 PM7/16/14
to
Dennis@home <den...@nowhere.invalid> wrote
> Johny B Good wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
You do with some brands of printer.
> If you leave it on the printer will clean itself as needed.
None of my Canons have ever done that.
> Johny B Good wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> If you leave it on the printer will clean itself as needed.
Trevor Wilson
Jul 16, 2014, 9:48:27 PM7/16/14
to
On 15/07/2014 11:16 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>
>>
>> **I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer
>> since 1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually
>> because I wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always
>> been sorry. Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal
>> fax machine for an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically
>> high prices for black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet
>> refiller kits. I figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room
>> one evening (100% wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided
>> that SWMBO might kill me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the
>> workshop. Part of the job called for pressurising the cartridge after
>> re-filling. I dtifully pumped air into the cartridge. No print. I
>> pumped a little more air in. No pump. I pumped a little more air in
>> and BANG. Ink went everywhere. It's been ten years and I am still
>> finding ink in places I never expected.
>>
>> I hate ink jet printers.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
>
> That's a sad story Trevor. To be honest, I can buy Chinese cartridges
> for this HP so cheap that it's not worth arsing about doing re-fills.
**Sad? That's not how I see it. Sad would have been if I performed the
task in the house. SWMBO would have hit the roof.
>
> While you're on, don't suppose you've got a schematic for a Mackie
> SRM1801 sub have you ? Have combed the net, but nothing lodged with any
> of the usual suspects. It has a permanent overload LED, although it
> seems to be an indicational problem as otherwise, it works just fine.
>
> Arfa
**Sorry mate. I can't find a schematic for that one.
--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
>
>
>>
>> **I hat ink jet printers. Although I've been using a laser printer
>> since 1988, there have been times when I purchased an ink jet (usually
>> because I wanted to print photos or something similar). I've always
>> been sorry. Anyway, a few years back, I decided to change my thermal
>> fax machine for an HP inkjet. I quickly tired of paying nonsensically
>> high prices for black cartridges, I purchased one of those ink jet
>> refiller kits. I figured I'd refill the cartridge in the lounge room
>> one evening (100% wool, Berber carpet). At the last moment, I decided
>> that SWMBO might kill me if I spilt the ink, so I did the job in the
>> workshop. Part of the job called for pressurising the cartridge after
>> re-filling. I dtifully pumped air into the cartridge. No print. I
>> pumped a little more air in. No pump. I pumped a little more air in
>> and BANG. Ink went everywhere. It's been ten years and I am still
>> finding ink in places I never expected.
>>
>> I hate ink jet printers.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
>
> That's a sad story Trevor. To be honest, I can buy Chinese cartridges
> for this HP so cheap that it's not worth arsing about doing re-fills.
**Sad? That's not how I see it. Sad would have been if I performed the
task in the house. SWMBO would have hit the roof.
>
> While you're on, don't suppose you've got a schematic for a Mackie
> SRM1801 sub have you ? Have combed the net, but nothing lodged with any
> of the usual suspects. It has a permanent overload LED, although it
> seems to be an indicational problem as otherwise, it works just fine.
>
> Arfa
**Sorry mate. I can't find a schematic for that one.
--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 16, 2014, 11:19:54 PM7/16/14
to
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:21:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>OK. Did a quick measure on the bad cartridge, and it goes 1.2 ohms 3 to 4,
>so that ties in nicely with what you found with your checks, and the
>symptoms that it caused my printer :-)
>Arfa
Bingo. I measured near infinity on all the pin connections on a known
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>OK. Did a quick measure on the bad cartridge, and it goes 1.2 ohms 3 to 4,
>so that ties in nicely with what you found with your checks, and the
>symptoms that it caused my printer :-)
>Arfa
good cartridges. I'm not a big fan of COB (chip on board)
construction, but I don't think that was the problem. COB failures
usually cause opens, not shorts. So, my guess(tm) is either crappy
constuction (adjacent wire bonds shorted), or static damage.
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 16, 2014, 11:28:03 PM7/16/14
to
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT), Jeroni Paul
<JERON...@terra.es> wrote:
>That looks like a serial interface using 0-3.3V instead of. -12-12V.
Yep, although I double it's RS-232 type data (startbit-data-stopbit).
<JERON...@terra.es> wrote:
>That looks like a serial interface using 0-3.3V instead of. -12-12V.
>An attempt could be made to decode the data by interfacing that
>to a PC serial port with a MAX232 and trying some settings until
>some meaningful data shows up.
<http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate>
The system looks so simple, that I doubt that a protocol converter
would be needed to deal with converting the binary data to something
meaningful.
>If they used some proprietary encoding instead of ASCII we may
>be out of luck still a binary analysis could be done.
looking at the data might be useful. I'll leave that for someone else
to do, as I'm not a programmist and don't see a way to make money
doing it.
>I also used the parallel port with a software with good results as a digital analyzer.
Looking at the scope settings, it looks like around 100KHz but I'm
guessing. That could probably be done with a parallel port logic
analyzer. I have several logic analyzers that could be used to figure
it out. Unfortunately, they're all inoperative and need some repair
work. Maybe if I get inspired (later).
Randy Day
Jul 17, 2014, 10:02:17 AM7/17/14
to
In article <0qfes99b73ntage11...@4ax.com>,
je...@cruzio.com says...
[snip]
> Bingo. I measured near infinity on all the pin connections on a known
> good cartridges. I'm not a big fan of COB (chip on board)
> construction, but I don't think that was the problem. COB failures
> usually cause opens, not shorts. So, my guess(tm) is either crappy
> constuction (adjacent wire bonds shorted), or static damage.
Tin whiskers from cheap chinese ROHS solder...
je...@cruzio.com says...
[snip]
> Bingo. I measured near infinity on all the pin connections on a known
> good cartridges. I'm not a big fan of COB (chip on board)
> construction, but I don't think that was the problem. COB failures
> usually cause opens, not shorts. So, my guess(tm) is either crappy
> constuction (adjacent wire bonds shorted), or static damage.
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 17, 2014, 11:00:53 AM7/17/14
to
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 08:02:17 -0600, Randy Day <rand...@sasktel.netx>
wrote:
What solder? The chip is glued to a gold plated PCB (no tin) without
any other components. See lousy photo at:
<http://inkjet411.com/?page_id=35>
In my experience with tin whiskers (in GE MSTR radio cavities and tin
plated connectors), the whiskers are "blown" by even the smallest
voltage across them. In this case, all 4 pins have a fairly large
(3.3v) potential between adjacent pins at various times, which is more
than sufficient to blow any tin whisker. Maybe a broken piece of wire
left around the chip during wire bonding, could easily produce a
short.
I wonder how they do these? Emulation?
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/160698015099>
<http://cmyshow.en.ec21.com/Continuous_Bulk_Ink_Supply_System--1638985_1795969.html>
wrote:
any other components. See lousy photo at:
<http://inkjet411.com/?page_id=35>
In my experience with tin whiskers (in GE MSTR radio cavities and tin
plated connectors), the whiskers are "blown" by even the smallest
voltage across them. In this case, all 4 pins have a fairly large
(3.3v) potential between adjacent pins at various times, which is more
than sufficient to blow any tin whisker. Maybe a broken piece of wire
left around the chip during wire bonding, could easily produce a
short.
I wonder how they do these? Emulation?
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/160698015099>
<http://cmyshow.en.ec21.com/Continuous_Bulk_Ink_Supply_System--1638985_1795969.html>
Jeroni Paul
Jul 17, 2014, 11:43:01 AM7/17/14
to
I would try to apply some current through the short, it might clear and get the chip working. I once fixed an IC input this way.
Arfa Daily
Jul 17, 2014, 9:45:37 PM7/17/14
to
>>
>> While you're on, don't suppose you've got a schematic for a Mackie
>> SRM1801 sub have you ? Have combed the net, but nothing lodged with any
>> of the usual suspects. It has a permanent overload LED, although it
>> seems to be an indicational problem as otherwise, it works just fine.
>>
>> Arfa
>
> **Sorry mate. I can't find a schematic for that one.
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
though it's an old unit now. Today, I decided to give it another go, as one
way or another, it needed to go back to its owner Friday. Strangely, it now
works correctly, and has done all day. I replaced the comparator I.C. that
drives the LED a few days ago, but as expected, it didn't cure the problem.
About the only other thing that I did was to give the board a good scrub
down with alcohol, as a lot of the joints had that sort of 'grey, dusty'
look to them when an item has been stored somewhere a bit damp. At the time,
that didn't have any effect on the fault either, but now I'm wondering if it
has all dried out, and some moisture under a surface mount component has
gone, and cleared up a leakage path across the print. I'll try it again in
the morning, and if it's still ok, I'll stick the amp back in its cab, and
write out the invoice ... :-)
Arfa
jurb...@gmail.com
Jul 19, 2014, 4:58:06 PM7/19/14
to
That Mackie sub - think this is close enough ?
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/48234/Mackie_Fusion18.html
Be sure to click where uit says "Download >> To download the file, please, click here ! << Download " or you might get some sort of new PDF reader from Zimbabwe or something that'll make you shoot your PC.
Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader. I like it just how it is. In facy I would prefer version 4, if it would work. the newer versions drive me nuts. WHY ? All they did was move shit around and do someting to the cursor, auto switch to select or some shit so if you don't move the mouse before clicking is switches to the select tool. Why didn't they just leave the fucking thing alone ? If it ain't broke don't fix it !
Really, I am getting to the point where I want to be a caveman and shit.
HOLY SHIT ! Lookie what I just found !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0
This is from a local movie host show called Big Chuck and Hoolihan. Later Hoolihan the weatherman (he was on the local news) left and it was Big Chuck and Little John, who had been their sidekick and worked these stupid skits and shit in between the segments of the movie. they showed the shittiest movies ever. I mean zero stars in the TV guide. But people watched because they liked the hosts, and their stupid skits. This one was from before Hoolihan left which makes it quite old. Let's put it this way, there were no VCRs. Video recorders yees, but probably no VCRs. I mean even Cartovision.
They did other ones, like "When I'm Calling YOU" and had Little John (the guy in THIS skit) running around like crazy and when they went "Shoo-wop-de-dop" he like opened a door and then shut it real fast. They also did the Nirobi trio one, but that has since been declared politically incorrect.
But yup, that is now in my collection, probably never to be watched again. When we are all dead and gone and aliens come to see what's up, they will go through my collection and all these artists, assholes and whatnot shall be then, thus immortalised, although I am not so sure that all of them would appreciate the, in retrospect.
Posthumously actually, I am not suire if ant of them folks are still breathing. What a trip.
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/48234/Mackie_Fusion18.html
Be sure to click where uit says "Download >> To download the file, please, click here ! << Download " or you might get some sort of new PDF reader from Zimbabwe or something that'll make you shoot your PC.
Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader. I like it just how it is. In facy I would prefer version 4, if it would work. the newer versions drive me nuts. WHY ? All they did was move shit around and do someting to the cursor, auto switch to select or some shit so if you don't move the mouse before clicking is switches to the select tool. Why didn't they just leave the fucking thing alone ? If it ain't broke don't fix it !
Really, I am getting to the point where I want to be a caveman and shit.
HOLY SHIT ! Lookie what I just found !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlRXQEA0yj0
This is from a local movie host show called Big Chuck and Hoolihan. Later Hoolihan the weatherman (he was on the local news) left and it was Big Chuck and Little John, who had been their sidekick and worked these stupid skits and shit in between the segments of the movie. they showed the shittiest movies ever. I mean zero stars in the TV guide. But people watched because they liked the hosts, and their stupid skits. This one was from before Hoolihan left which makes it quite old. Let's put it this way, there were no VCRs. Video recorders yees, but probably no VCRs. I mean even Cartovision.
They did other ones, like "When I'm Calling YOU" and had Little John (the guy in THIS skit) running around like crazy and when they went "Shoo-wop-de-dop" he like opened a door and then shut it real fast. They also did the Nirobi trio one, but that has since been declared politically incorrect.
But yup, that is now in my collection, probably never to be watched again. When we are all dead and gone and aliens come to see what's up, they will go through my collection and all these artists, assholes and whatnot shall be then, thus immortalised, although I am not so sure that all of them would appreciate the, in retrospect.
Posthumously actually, I am not suire if ant of them folks are still breathing. What a trip.
Johny B Good
Jul 19, 2014, 5:56:23 PM7/19/14
to
IPA. It's not sufficient to rely on the stuff evaporating out of the
PCB board 'under its own steam' and making it 'look' like it has dried
up as I discovered when cleaning the carbon smoke damage from my
homebrewed portable sound mixing box which had caused the op-amp
perfect rectifier driven VU meters to show a -10dB reading after I
replaced the burnt out safety resistors in the phantom power feed cct
to the stage box (the result of trusting a coon DJ's shoddy equipment
not to have mains voltage on its supposedly earthed connections).
When I powered the mixer up after the IPA and toothbrush cleaning
exercise, the meters shot over to the end stops. I figured that maybe
I needed to dry it out more thoroughly with a hair drier. I was right!
Once properly dried out, the meters stopped showing any spurious
readings and all was well again.
--
J B Good
Arfa Daily
Jul 20, 2014, 10:03:33 AM7/20/14
to
"Johny B Good" <johnny...@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mlpls9t7em6tg2393...@4ax.com...
suffered such problems after a cleandown, and I guess doing this stuff day
in day out, you get complacent. In theory, the only thing that should make
IPA conductive, is water content, and the stuff I use is 99.7% electronics
grade, and kept in a sealed tin, so it shouldn't be conductive at all - wet
or dry. If the symptoms had changed after the cleandown, I might have
suspected that a drying out was required, but it was identical before and
after. Still, it's all working now and has gone back to its owner. One of
the little mysteries that this trade flings at us from time to time, I guess
... :-)
Arfa
mrob...@att.net
Jul 20, 2014, 1:17:17 PM7/20/14
to
jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox wants
> a plugin.
For about the last year or so, Firefox has included a built-in PDF
> Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox wants
> a plugin.
reader. Maybe it will do what you want. If you want to try it out
without messing up your existing installation of Firefox, plug in a USB
flash drive and install the "portable" version of Firefox to the flash
drive:
http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable
> I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader.
Matt Roberds
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 20, 2014, 4:55:16 PM7/20/14
to
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox
>wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader.
May I recommend PDF-Xchange viewer (free) instead.
>Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox
>wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader.
<http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer>
The advantages over Acrobat are:
1. No built in Javascript engine which the virus writers just love.
<http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html>
2. Does not crash randomly like Acrobat reader.
3. Does not hang on exit like Acrobat reader.
4. Does not fail to release allocated memory like Acrobat reader.
5. Somewhat better screen rendering.
6. Options and controls actually work, unlike Acrobat.
7. Built in OCR to convert unsearchable scans.
8. etc...
Arfa Daily
Jul 24, 2014, 9:03:00 PM7/24/14
to
news:qqaos9l2u2mmcamqk...@4ax.com...
good it is, too.
Going back to the shorted bus lines on the ink cartridge, I 'blew' the short
off with a bit of DC, and when measured again, it had indeed gone. So just
for sport, I hung the cartridge back into the printer.
"The following ink cartridges appear to be missing or damaged" - all six
of 'em again ! Oh well, it was worth a try :-)
I put the replacement back in, and all was well again, at which point, I
lost all interest, and chucked the bad one in the workshop bin. I say I lost
all interest, but it is one with a translucent tank, and you can see that it
is nearly full of magenta ink. And it's a high capacity one as well. And
yes, I know that these Chinese copies only cost me about a quid apiece, but
still, as I see it laying on the top of the pile of workshop detritus in
that bin, I still baulk at all that precious ink going to waste ... :-\
Arfa
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT), jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox
>>wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader.
>
> May I recommend PDF-Xchange viewer (free) instead.
> <http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer>
> The advantages over Acrobat are:
> 1. No built in Javascript engine which the virus writers just love.
> <http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html>
> 2. Does not crash randomly like Acrobat reader.
> 3. Does not hang on exit like Acrobat reader.
> 4. Does not fail to release allocated memory like Acrobat reader.
> 5. Somewhat better screen rendering.
> 6. Options and controls actually work, unlike Acrobat.
> 7. Built in OCR to convert unsearchable scans.
> 8. etc...
PDF-Xchange has been my default PDF viewer for several years now, and very
>
>>Also, I have to view online PDFs in IE right now because Firefox
>>wants a plugin. I DO NOT WANT TO up my version of the Acrobat reader.
>
> May I recommend PDF-Xchange viewer (free) instead.
> <http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer>
> The advantages over Acrobat are:
> 1. No built in Javascript engine which the virus writers just love.
> <http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/javascript.html>
> 2. Does not crash randomly like Acrobat reader.
> 3. Does not hang on exit like Acrobat reader.
> 4. Does not fail to release allocated memory like Acrobat reader.
> 5. Somewhat better screen rendering.
> 6. Options and controls actually work, unlike Acrobat.
> 7. Built in OCR to convert unsearchable scans.
> 8. etc...
good it is, too.
Going back to the shorted bus lines on the ink cartridge, I 'blew' the short
off with a bit of DC, and when measured again, it had indeed gone. So just
for sport, I hung the cartridge back into the printer.
"The following ink cartridges appear to be missing or damaged" - all six
of 'em again ! Oh well, it was worth a try :-)
I put the replacement back in, and all was well again, at which point, I
lost all interest, and chucked the bad one in the workshop bin. I say I lost
all interest, but it is one with a translucent tank, and you can see that it
is nearly full of magenta ink. And it's a high capacity one as well. And
yes, I know that these Chinese copies only cost me about a quid apiece, but
still, as I see it laying on the top of the pile of workshop detritus in
that bin, I still baulk at all that precious ink going to waste ... :-\
Arfa
Jeff Liebermann
Jul 24, 2014, 11:51:42 PM7/24/14
to
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 02:03:00 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>...I say I lost
kits. You could impale the defective cartridge, suck out the ink, and
inject it into a different cartridge.
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>...I say I lost
>all interest, but it is one with a translucent tank, and you can see that it
>is nearly full of magenta ink. And it's a high capacity one as well. And
>yes, I know that these Chinese copies only cost me about a quid apiece, but
>still, as I see it laying on the top of the pile of workshop detritus in
>that bin, I still baulk at all that precious ink going to waste ... :-\
I have a collection of blunt syringes that came with various refill
>is nearly full of magenta ink. And it's a high capacity one as well. And
>yes, I know that these Chinese copies only cost me about a quid apiece, but
>still, as I see it laying on the top of the pile of workshop detritus in
>that bin, I still baulk at all that precious ink going to waste ... :-\
kits. You could impale the defective cartridge, suck out the ink, and
inject it into a different cartridge.
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