Taxes on consumer electronics
Mark D. Zacharias
Here's one:
Simply require manufacturers whose equipment doesn't last say 7 years to
take it back and recycle it at their expense. This would have the added
benefit of increasing the retail prices of some of the JUNK out there.
Another:
Whenever a manufacturer discontinues a part, they must publish the specs of
that part and release it into the public domain, relinquishing all patents,
etc.
If there's any demand for that part, second sources would spring up. That
way a Mitsubishi big-screen would not end up in a landfill because Mits
discontinued the flyback transformer after 4 years.
Mark Z.
"Sidney" <sidn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fecdbb87.0306...@posting.google.com...
> I have one suggestion to improve our industry and that is to write a
> letter,send a fax or e-mail to the government department responsible
> for taxes,in Canada it would be:
>
> Department Of Finance
> 140 O'Connor Dr
> Ottawa,Ontario K1A 0G5
> Canada
>
> The purpose of the letter would be to have another tax on consumer
> electronics like the taxes found on gasoline,alcohol and cigarettes
> throughout the world,many nations have other taxes on consumer
> electronics,what that does is reduces the number of tv's,vcr's and
> other stuff from ending up in landfills,creates jobs for repair
> shops,parts suppliers,shipping/courier companies and gives the
> customer the choice whether to repair the item at a reasonable cost or
> spend alot more on buying a new one,like the good old days,it may also
> bring assembly plants back creating jobs and of course the tax Dollars
> the government gets from this.
> I already sent a letter to the Dept of Finance and encourage everyone
> in Canada,USA,Australia,UK and other nations to write a letter to
> their corresponding government department with this
> proposal/suggestion.
> I am wondering if someone could post this posting at?:
>
> http://www.repairworld.com
> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/27725
> http://www.shophelper.net
> http://www.repairhelper.com
> http://www.shophelper.com
> http://www.winstip.com
> http://www.euras.com/english
> http://www.fletchersite.com
> http://www.mikesrs.no-frills.net
> http://www.anatekcorp.com
> http://www.nesda-ohio.com
>
> As I am not a member of these pay sites.Thanks lets make a positive
> change.
>
Leonard Caillouet
government idiots to screw things up. Hope your happy living in Canada with
those notions, but don't export them to the US. We have too much of that
already.
The problem will begin to resolve itself without a tax on the consumer end
if things continue like they are going here. We have to pay $.38 per pound
to dispose of old electronics. Those rates are getting ready to go up
considerably according to the waste people here in Florida. As they do,
people who are disposing of electronics will have to make a decision. The
tax will be on the disposal end where it should be, ie where the costs to
society are incurred. The message is already getting to consumers as
dealers like us begin to require a disposal deposit on older products that
customers are likely to dump on us. We have encountered no resistance to
this deposit and people now come back to get their old junk that is not
worth repairing or is not repairable and have to dispose of it themselves.
As disposal costs go up, recyclers and used parts dealers will become more
profitable. Consumers will bitch to the manufacturers about parts not being
available. That is what we need to be promoting, not a tax to go into the
black hole of government.
It is foolish to put it on the consumer end and trust that government will
allocate the funds where they belong. The tax on gas is a perfect example
of the wrong way to do things. When fees are imposed on those who create
the problem or use a service and collected directly by the agency providing
the service, there is an inherent accountability that gets lost in
beaurocracies when taxes are collected in the manner you propose.
Leonard Caillouet
rw
Provincial sales tax @ 8%
GST (federal) @ 7%
these are the public taxes, how many hidden taxes we got noone knows
rw
Alan Harriman
<lcaill...@devoynet.com> wrote:
>Great, another tax on the wrong end of the system and another bunch of
>government idiots to screw things up. Hope your happy living in Canada with
>those notions, but don't export them to the US. We have too much of that
>already.
Landfill space shouldn't be a large concern in Canada, as they export much of
their garbage to Michigan (literally). I'll never understand, as Canada has
twice the land area and probably a tenth of the US population.
Alan Harriman
john
Michigan imports the garbage from Toronto.
kip
--
"Watch the return E-Mail addy its false"
"Alan Harriman" <vt...@usol.com> wrote in message
news:5ec3fv804k2dbvppd...@4ax.com...
rw
put your garbage
rw
Charles Schuler
> The purpose of the letter would be to have another tax on consumer
> electronics like the taxes found on gasoline,alcohol and cigarettes
> throughout the world,many nations have other taxes on consumer
> electronics,what that does is reduces the number of tv's,vcr's and
> other stuff from ending up in landfills,creates jobs for repair
> shops,parts suppliers,shipping/courier companies and gives the
> customer the choice whether to repair the item at a reasonable cost or
> spend alot more on buying a new one,like the good old days,it may also
> bring assembly plants back creating jobs and of course the tax Dollars
> the government gets from this.
One issue is that some consumer goods evolve rapidly with new features
coming out all the time. Some consumers don't want to keep all of their
goods for long periods of time. A washing machine is one thing and a home
entertainment gadget is a very different thing. My guess is that most
consumer electronics goods become "undesirable" for a large segment of the
population even before they wind up in the landfill.
As to high end goods, it's a real shame to see these in landfills because a
part can no longer be obtained. This is a serious issue and should be
addressed (but probably not by taxes).
Lee Babcock
>
> I have one suggestion to improve our industry and that is to write a
> letter,send a fax or e-mail to the government department responsible
> for taxes,in Canada it would be:
>
> Department Of Finance
> 140 O'Connor Dr
> Ottawa,Ontario K1A 0G5
> Canada
>
> electronics like the taxes found on gasoline,alcohol and cigarettes
> throughout the world,many nations have other taxes on consumer
> electronics,what that does is reduces the number of tv's,vcr's and
> other stuff from ending up in landfills,creates jobs for repair
> shops,parts suppliers,shipping/courier companies and gives the
> customer the choice whether to repair the item at a reasonable cost or
> spend alot more on buying a new one,like the good old days,it may also
> bring assembly plants back creating jobs and of course the tax Dollars
> the government gets from this.
> in Canada,USA,Australia,UK and other nations to write a letter to
> their corresponding government department with this
> proposal/suggestion.
> I am wondering if someone could post this posting at?:
>
> http://www.repairworld.com
> http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/27725
> http://www.shophelper.net
> http://www.repairhelper.com
> http://www.shophelper.com
> http://www.winstip.com
> http://www.euras.com/english
> http://www.fletchersite.com
> http://www.mikesrs.no-frills.net
> http://www.anatekcorp.com
> http://www.nesda-ohio.com
>
> As I am not a member of these pay sites.Thanks lets make a positive
> change.
Sydney..... Environment Canada is already looking at this problem. Have
you noticed that the banks and big business have been dumping CRT's like
mad the last six months because they are concerned with pending
legislation covering disposal costs of electronic products.
Regards
Lee in Toronto
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Lee Babcock
Alan...... get your facts straight. The city of Toronto has been
exporting ALL of its non-recyled garbage to Michigan since Jan 1/2003.
Not Canada as a country! However, pressure from the good folks there
and from here in Toronto has resulted in a major restriction on what is
going over the border the last few weeks. It looks like it will be
completely cut off shortly and not a moment too soon.
In my opinion, Toronto should deal with its garbage within the city
itself, and not even export it outside city limits.
European cities are doing this and in fact using Toronto based
technology to do this, but as always, politicians have hidden agendas.
Regards
Lee in Toronto
PS.... I was raised on a farm, and we never had garbage. We recycled
everything.
Granny said she would cook the squeal of the pig if she could figure out
how to keep it in the pot long enough. <g>
Lee Babcock
As a Canadian, you should get your facts straight. Your comments cover
Ontario ONLY.
All provinces except Alberta have a provincial sales tax and federally,
we have the GST. Also, provincial sales tax percentages vary from
province to province.
Regards
Lee in Toronto
Lee Babcock
I agree with you on this, but a large part of the problem is the
consumer themselves constantly looking for the holy grail of the lowest
possible price. Price drops, so does quality. North Americans have
become so obsessed with the cheapest price that most don't even
recognize quality and with this, have exported hundreds of thousands of
jobs to the far east. With little profits in a low priced item,
manufacturers can't afford to maintain a parts delivery system. The
problem is even worse if the manufacture is done off-shore.
Charles Schuler
>
> I agree with you on this, but a large part of the problem is the
> consumer themselves constantly looking for the holy grail of the lowest
> possible price. Price drops, so does quality. North Americans have
> become so obsessed with the cheapest price that most don't even
> recognize quality and with this, have exported hundreds of thousands of
> jobs to the far east. With little profits in a low priced item,
> manufacturers can't afford to maintain a parts delivery system. The
> problem is even worse if the manufacture is done off-shore.
>
> Regards
> Lee in Toronto
In the USA, we have OSHA, EPA and other agencies that make manufacturing
more expensive. I suppose Canada has parallel agencies. I recently read
that the USA lost over 100,000 electronics jobs during 2000-2002. It's
cheaper to do business, for lots of reasons, in the far east. We can't
compete!
We want to live in a safe and clean environment and we also want good jobs
and a strong economy ... these are often at odds. Gee, if we had the
answers to problems like these we would be prime minister or president or at
least obscenely wealthy.
Lee Babcock
Charles oh so true!
Yes, we have similar impediments to doing business here that adds to the
price of the goods.
As for the far east, labour is dirt cheap, there are no environmental,
health or worker safety restrictions so they can produce very cheap
products. Plus, the mainland chinese government, while not officially
capatalistic, have done wonders to attract manufacturing. There are
many factories in mainland China with a workforce of from 10,000 to
40,000 workers per shift. We westerners have trouble even comprehending
that scale.
Gary Tait
<leeba...@pathcom.com> wrote:
>rw wrote:
>>
>> in Ontario , Canada we already have 2 taxes.
>> Provincial sales tax @ 8%
>> GST (federal) @ 7%
>> these are the public taxes, how many hidden taxes we got noone knows
>> rw
>
>As a Canadian, you should get your facts straight. Your comments cover
>Ontario ONLY.
>All provinces except Alberta have a provincial sales tax and federally,
>we have the GST. Also, provincial sales tax percentages vary from
>province to province.
Well, the east has the HST (PST and GST in one). Not to nit pick
though.
Gary Tait
>he purpose of the letter would be to have another tax on consumer
>electronics like the taxes found on gasoline,alcohol and cigarettes
>throughout the world,many nations have other taxes on consumer
>electronics,what that does is reduces the number of tv's,vcr's and
>other stuff from ending up in landfills,creates jobs for repair
>shops,parts suppliers,shipping/courier companies and gives the
How about a reverse sliding tax, the higher the price, the lower the
tax. That is, if you want a tax. I'd sooner go with the disposal tax,
maybe have the Maunufacturer, or more likely, the importer, partially
responsible for product disposal.
Mark D. Zacharias
them later! They'll conveniently disappear.
Mark Z.
"Gary Tait" <ta...@hurontel.on.ca> wrote in message
news:k0o4fvk6uvcevrd0v...@4ax.com...
Franc Zabkar
to keyboard and composed:
>I have one suggestion to improve our industry and that is to write a
>letter,send a fax or e-mail to the government department responsible
>for taxes,in Canada it would be:
>
>Department Of Finance
>140 O'Connor Dr
>Ottawa,Ontario K1A 0G5
>Canada
>
>The purpose of the letter would be to have another tax on consumer
>electronics like the taxes found on gasoline,alcohol and cigarettes
>throughout the world,many nations have other taxes on consumer
>electronics,what that does is reduces the number of tv's,vcr's and
>other stuff from ending up in landfills,creates jobs for repair
>shops,parts suppliers,shipping/courier companies and gives the
>customer the choice whether to repair the item at a reasonable cost or
>spend alot more on buying a new one,like the good old days,it may also
>bring assembly plants back creating jobs and of course the tax Dollars
>the government gets from this.
This is typical greenie ignorance. Instead of lumbering consumers with
yet another mindless impost, conservationists should be campaigning to
lower the costs of maintenance and repair, as follows.
(1) Compel manufacturers/importers to provide circuit diagrams in
downloadable format from a publicly accessible website. Many jobs are
unfeasible simply because of unnecessarily long diagnostic time.
(2) Compel manufacturers/importers to provide spare parts at a price
which makes repair economical. For example, nearly all cheap DVD
players with a laser fault will end up in the trash, as will
microwaves with a magnetron fault, and cheap TVs with a flyback fault.
(4) Compel manufacturers/importers to provide consumables at a price
which makes continued ownership economical. For example, in Australia
one pays about AUD$80 for a new Lexmark printer, while a replacement
print cartridge costs about AUD$75.
(3) Call on governments to remove the GST/VAT/sales taxes on all
repairs.
-- Franc Zabkar
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.
Dan Fraser
consumer electronics importer in Vancouver BC. We had horrid problems
for support as most Asian companies only make products to order for the
importers. They get an order for 1000 units so they make 1010.
On every order, I was to get free parts to 1% of the value of the
shipment and we always said, parts of our choice. I spent hundreds of
hours preparing life of product parts lists. Instead, they would send me
1% extra complete units. Now what the hell good is that considering the
ten extras would go into main stock and get sold with the others. I
would not even get units for exchange on even the first 1% defective.
With the suppliers who did send parts, I would get piles of knobs and
cheap IF cans (which never went bad) and in the case of units with tape
of CD drives, 1% complete drive or deck mechanisms.
However, because most products from Asia are batch built and not in
continuous production, the suppliers would not even have parts after the
shipment was dispatched to us.
When I wanted to order more, the assembly company would refer me to
their supplier for the part. That supplier would tell me "sorry, minimum
order 1000 pieces".
I occasionally got good parts support, but almost exclusively from
Japanese and Taiwanese suppliers. I found the Korean suppliers seemed to
be the least responsive to my needs. I still tell people to boycott
Samsung to this day. The mainland Chinese are improving.
Overall, unless the product was built by the importer, like a Sony or
Hitachi, forget about parts being available for long. As well, the Asian
suppliers have generally been reluctant to provide service data. When
you see on a product "Over the counter exchange" for warranty, this
means "Not only do we not provide parts for post warranty repair, we
don't even offer them for warranty!"
--
Dan Fraser
From Costa Mesa in sunny California
949-631-7535 Cell 714-420-7535
Check out my electronic schematics site at:
http://www.schematicsforfree.com
If you are into cars check out www.roadsters.com
Charles Schuler
> which makes continued ownership economical. For example, in Australia
> one pays about AUD$80 for a new Lexmark printer, while a replacement
> print cartridge costs about AUD$75.
Give the razors away and then sell them the blades!
Lee Babcock
And Gillet's method is taught in most college marketing courses in North
America.
Worked then and works now.
Michael Floyd
I agree with the ideas you are proposing, but don't expect
manufacturers to agree - you are asking them to sell only 1 million
units of something instead of 10 million, which equals huge profit
losses for them.
Who cares about the environment? The almighty dollar will ALWAYS win.
Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic, but it's true at the same time.
Michael Floyd