Whirlpool direct drive washer with fast spin issues.

[David Farber]

I have a Whirlpool GSQ9300EQ0 direct drive washer. The date stamp says
it's from 1998. In the past, the only thing that ever failed on it was
the motor coupler. About every two or three years, I replace the coupler
and all is normal again. We do some heavy loads in our household so that
is not unexpected.

The new issue that cropped about a year ago was that the clothes were
very wet after the final spin cycle. I did my diligent youtube viewing
and suspected the clutch was bad. At first, I removed the old clutch,
sprayed the clutch pads with brake cleaner, reinstalled everything and
it worked fine for about 6 months. Then the washer landed back in the no
spin zone. This time, I ordered a new (non-OEM) clutch and it worked
fine for two loads and it stopped spinning again. I returned the clutch
for a refund and put the old clutch back in after cleaning it again and
it worked for a couple of months... and then it failed again. This time,
I ordered the heavy duty, 6-pad, OEM clutch:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073RRW32D (the old one was the 3 pad type)
and installed it two weeks ago. And of course after a couple of
successful wash cycles, the washer doesn't spin again. If we remove some
of the heavier clothes, it will spin up as usual. By the way, during my
many clutch changes, I've never noticed any oil leaks.

For the first 20 years we owned the washer, this failure never happened
and I'm thinking the clutch may not be the problem. I did some more
research on how the transmission, motor, brakes, and clutch all operate
and I have some questions:

Does the clutch pad assembly actually turn the basket? If so, does the
basket drive link up with the hooks where the spring keeps the pads
flush against the disc? (The next time the basket doesn't spin, I know I
need to look at the clutch disc and see if it's spinning rather than
just lighten the load until the basket spins again.) One mechanic uses a
water bottle to squirt water on the clutch and says, "If the water boils
or smokes like this, the clutch is slipping and you need to check it
out." Makes sense to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q942xn_2VXY (at the 1:25 mark)

Also, there are several videos explaining how the neutral drain works
and what happens when it fails. Supposedly when it fails, the basket
will spin when it's not supposed to during the drain cycle. I was
wondering, can the neutral drain assembly fail with the opposite
symptom? Can the transmission get stuck in the neutral drain mode and
not advance to the spin mode?

The last time I replaced the clutch, I made sure the brakes were not
jammed and that the shoes moved easily. They were OK. I checked the lid
switch to make sure that wasn't reading a high resistance. It was
reading 0.2 ohms which is the same reading I get when I touch my meter
probes together. I'm running out of ideas here. It doesn't make sense to
me that two new clutches won't even last through 5 loads of wash.

Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

[ABLE1]

David,

First I don't know!!

However, check the "Out of Balance" switches to verify they have the
.2 Ohms and that they are not stuck in wrong position.

Don't ask me why, just check it!!!

Les

[David Farber]

> Hi Les,

I cannot find any information about an "Out of Balance" switch for this
model.

[ABLE1]

David,

Don't know your model but there should be a "Out of Balance" switch
or two or not. If there is it may be the issue. If there isn't then
it is not the issue.

Good Luck,

Les

[Peter W.]

What comes immediately to mind is that there must be some sort of magnet or solenoid that engages the clutch, with 0-voltage being the 'release' (freewheeling) state. Should there be some resistance in that contact - or dirt, or a bad relay, that may be enough to cause what you describe. When everything is pristine, even a low-pressure 'grip' is enough. But a few uses, and a bit of glaze on the clutch, and you are back to slipping.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[David Farber]

Hi Peter,

Regarding your clutch magnet/solenoid hypothesis, I cannot find any
electrical connections to the transmission or to the clutch and drive
system.

Yesterday I filled up the washer to the max and put it to the test. This
time there were no problems. There is something intermittent going on.
Eventually it will fail again and I'll remove the cover and see what
exactly that clutch disc is doing.

[David Farber]

Hi Les,

An out of balance switch wold make a lot of sense but in the past when
the machine was out of balance, it would make very loud knocking noises
when in the spin cycle and I'd have to run quickly back to the machine
to turn off the power. There was never any automatic turn off. I've read
many posts and watched many videos about Whirlpool direct drive machines
with spin failures however there was not one mention about an out of a
balance switch. If I ever locate one, I'll let you know!

[ABLE1]

David,

If the unit was designed with out some kind of safety switch when a out
of balance load occurs then that is not the issue since they don't
exist. However, if there is a out of balance switch that is partially
stuck then it would never get in the high spin cycle in the first place.

Your description of "out of balance" tells me that a safety switch to
shut down does not exist. Which tells me the design engineering was
missing something in order to cut co$t!! Sad!!!

Have a good weekend.

Les

[David Farber]

Hi Les,

You make a good point about design vs. cost. Because of this, I never
leave the house when the washing machine is running.

[ABLE1]

David,

The same applies to my wife that will not ever leave the
house when the gas dryer is running. She made that
decision after the wiring behind the the dryer caught FIRE!!
It was the best house fire ever!! Just smoke damage and a
bit of drywall repair. Spent a night in a Motel while the
house was de-fumed from the smell. :-)

Again have a good weekend!!

Les

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <zLP_I.27323$tA2....@fx02.iad>, some...@nowhere.net
says...

>
> The same applies to my wife that will not ever leave the
> house when the gas dryer is running. She made that
> decision after the wiring behind the the dryer caught FIRE!!
> It was the best house fire ever!! Just smoke damage and a
> bit of drywall repair. Spent a night in a Motel while the
> house was de-fumed from the smell. :-)
>
>
>

A friend had a dish washer catch on fire while he was out of the house.
Not too much actual damage to the house except for the smoke. Almost
everything in the house needed cleaning . He was out of the house for
several months for the smoke cleaning.

I try not to leave the house when the washer, drier or dish washer is
running and everything is electric.

[Peter W.]

While there is nothing at all wrong with being tethered to a house when certain appliances are in operation, please understand that such failures as described did not happen spontaneously - but for (usually) a good and often obvious reason. And, at bottom, never a surprise.

- Damaged wiring: Wiring that has been compromised by age, friction, impact, vermin or other physical causes. This may be prevented by reasonably frequent inspections. After all, it is right there.
- Incorrect or poorly installed wiring: Under-sized wire, bad receptacle, cut ground , all the sorts of things that happen in a thoughtless environment.
- Simple stupidity: Allowing lint to build up, compromised vent. flammable liquids stored nearby, you get the picture.

Over the years, I have seen a number of issues brought up here that are born of the 'wait until it breaks' school of maintenance vs. the 'preventive maintenance' school. That is all to often tragic behavior, very nearly always costly, and very much always terribly inconvenient.

[ABLE1]

Peter,

Now that the subject has changed a bit.............

I was a Maintenance Supervisor for 14 Years in Manufacturing.
I did a huge amount of Preventive Maintenance for all of those
14 years. And now that I have my own business for the past 32 years
I can say that what you typed above is 100% correct. And in a perfect
world there should be NO bad things that ever happen!!!

However, even in a Perfect World there has to be some room for the
negative stuff to happen. If it didn't then there would be no reason
for anybody to find fault in what just happened. Over time things build
up, things change and things wear out. Presently "IDA" comes
to my mind to be one of those negative things that happens..........

BTW for my Dryer it was 20 years old and the wiring from Mfg. was
mostly in a bad location and/or poor design from the start and ended
up igniting. My wife used an extinguisher to put out the flames
and dialed 911. I actually broke the land speed record and followed
one of the truck to my house. When I walked into the laundry there
were two fire guys with a thermoscope looking at the wall behind the
dryer shaking their heads. I said, I know you OWN My House at this
time, do what you have to do but, be gentle, because I am the guy that
has to fix it. They ended up cutting a hole in the drywall to find
there was nothing smoldering. It was a rather easy fix!!

Now this discussion thread can go on for another few weeks. I
personally will not contribute any further since I know how this
"stuff" goes in the "newsgroups".