OT: Cat 5 Install Pricing
Michael Kennedy
to ask this in.
I've done PC repair work as a side business on the weekends for years now
and recently I have a customer that wants me to install a network in a small
dentist office. It is a new building and I will be installing 10 computers.
There will be a computer at all 6 dental chairs one at the x-ray machine and
3 in the receptionist area. The office is not large, about 50 feet by 30
feet and the conduit and boxes are installed for the cable. I just have to
pull the conduit and tack it up above the dropped ceiling and of course add
connectors to the ends.
My question is how much should I charge for pulling and installing cat 5
cable in this situation. I have been given all sorts of suggestions from
$20/ft to $75 per cable drop. $20 per foot seems outrageous to me, but
that's why I'm asking.
TIA.
Mike
Baron
Those figures are supposed to account for the cost of your time/labour
and materials. If the conduits are already in and you can pull the
cables easily the rate would be lower than having to install the
conduit as well. Although I'm in the UK £10.00p a metre is a very good
price.
As a side issue faceplates can have two or more outlets fitted, it would
be wise to create some redundancy. Don't forget to label things
properly either. Saves a lot of time fault finding when you damage a
cable and come to connect things up.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Jerry Peters
Jerry
>
Trevor Wilson
"Michael Kennedy" <Mike...@remthis.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YcqdnUeMxa8IsPTV...@comcast.com...
**I've never heard anything as bizarre as charging per Metre of cable
installed. I charge my time out per hour, plus travelling time, plus
materials. If it is a particularly unpleasant job (like crawling in confined
spaces), I find a younger, more 'hungry' assistant to help. Or I just quote
a little higher.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
ABLE_1
I just finished a job today with 10 drops in a much smaller space. 280 feet
of wire. Drop ceiling. Surface mount wiremold with boxes. 12 port patch
panel. Panduit jacks. Calculated 6 hours labor. Worked out to be $72/drop
in a T&M job.
If I used your $20/ft it would have been $5600.00 which would have been real
nice. Generally I have heard that per drop prices to be $125 to $150 per.
But have found that I am very happy with T&M and will make good money. It
depends on your overhead and skills.
If you are happy with your hourly rate and markup work it out that way.
Just do the math. If conduit is already installed as you say, it sounds
like you have a very sweet job.
Good luck.
Les
Michael Kennedy
>> group to ask this in.
>>
>> I've done PC repair work as a side business on the weekends for years now
>> and recently I have a customer that wants me to install a network in a
>> small dentist office. It is a new building and I will be installing 10
>> computers. There will be a computer at all 6 dental chairs one at the
>> x-ray machine and 3 in the receptionist area. The office is not large,
>> about 50 feet by 30 feet and the conduit and boxes are installed for the
>> cable. I just have to pull the conduit and tack it up above the dropped
>> ceiling and of course add connectors to the ends.
>>
>> My question is how much should I charge for pulling and installing cat 5
>> cable in this situation. I have been given all sorts of suggestions from
>> $20/ft to $75 per cable drop. $20 per foot seems outrageous to me, but
>> that's why I'm asking.
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
"ABLE_1" <royboy...@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:yZudnTSgk8zoDvTV...@comcast.com...
> Hello,
>
> I just finished a job today with 10 drops in a much smaller space. 280
> feet of wire. Drop ceiling. Surface mount wiremold with boxes. 12 port
> patch panel. Panduit jacks. Calculated 6 hours labor. Worked out to be
> $72/drop in a T&M job.
>
> If I used your $20/ft it would have been $5600.00 which would have been
> real nice. Generally I have heard that per drop prices to be $125 to $150
> per. But have found that I am very happy with T&M and will make good
> money. It depends on your overhead and skills.
>
> If you are happy with your hourly rate and markup work it out that way.
> Just do the math. If conduit is already installed as you say, it sounds
> like you have a very sweet job.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Les
>
>
Thanks, I think I will just do it hourly and work out the estimate like
that. I'm a little unsure how long each drop will take, probably about an
houre each... Seems easier to just bill flat rate though, like 75 per drop.
Mike
Michael A. Terrell
If you are working by yourself and providing th materials, 75 per
drop is in the ballpark for your area. If they let Emabraq (formerly
Sprint) do it, they were charging three times that rate ten years ago.
The wall plates and connectors aren't cheap, and if you have to pass
through any firewall, you'll need plenum rated wire. If you were
closer, I could probably dig up enough Cat5 wire that was leftover form
other jobs You have a Home Depot near you. They carry Leviton plates &
jacks. You'll probably need a 100' box of cable, 20 jacks and an
assortment of wall plates. Leviton makes some that hold six jacks, and
can be used for a small patch panel. Use the plastic surface mount
Wiremold type boxes near the router/switch/server. HD also carries
ready made Cat5 patch cables. Don't try to make your own. The
connectors for stranded wire are different from solid wire, and will not
hold properly. Don't use solid wire for patch cables, it won't hold up
for long.
<http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=14237&minisite=10028>
BTW, HD sells a 25 pack of Cat5E connectors for less than two 10 packs.
If you aren't in a big hurry, MPJA had some Leviton surplus, in
Miami.
<http://www.mpja.com/products.asp?dept=223>
--
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gb
news:YcqdnUeMxa8IsPTV...@comcast.com...
$ 200 to $250 USD per outlet (This is the standard budget number from
1990s) --- my actual experience from small to large installations
(hospitals, banks, small businesses) is that this number is quite good for
most of USA.
That price for running 2 cateory 5e cables from central wiring closet (WC)
to a telecommunicaitons outlet (TO) -- Includes the labor, cable,
jacks/cover plates and punchdown at wiring closet rack or equivalent.
EIA/TIA 568 and 569 standards should be followed -- which also limits this
copper station run from the WC to the TO to no more than 95 meters.
Michael Kennedy
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:N-udnSC1GLRGAfTV...@earthlink.com...
Thanks for the pricing info and the website. I've never seen that site
before. I dropped by SkyCraft today and picked up a 800ft spool of Belden
CAT 5 Pleneum. I can always use the cale around here. Skycraft had 6' patch
cables for $3 and RJ45 Jacks for $3. Looks like a good price for jacks but
expensive for cables.
Mike
Jeff Liebermann
<Mike...@remthis.comcast.net> wrote:
>I just have to
>pull the conduit and tack it up above the dropped ceiling and of course add
>connectors to the ends.
Assumption, the mother of all screwups. I read the above to mean that
you have conduit, hopefully from a central location, where an ethernet
switch will be located, to the ceiling, but not into the walls. I
suspect the dentist is not interested in having ugly wires dangling
from the ceiling or snaking across the walls, He probably wants the
drop to be *INSIDE* the wall, with a flush mounted wall plate. That's
considerably more work than just dangling the wire from the ceiling.
How much depends on the wall construction, which is currently unknown.
You mention "of course add connectors to the ends". You can do that
in the wiring closet, where all the wire ends go to the ethernet
switch. I kinda like to use patch panels, but for such a small number
of connections, going direct to the switch will suffice. However, I
suggest you NOT run CAT5 directly to the various computers as it
really looks ugly. Also, solid copper wire CAT5 is rather stiff and
you probably want something more flexible going into the PC's. Use a
wall mount CAT5 jacks, or if you must run the wires across the face of
the wall, a surface mount muffin jack.
If you run CAT5 inside conduit, do the next guy a favor and leave a
pull line in the conduit.
>My question is how much should I charge for pulling and installing cat 5
>cable in this situation. I have been given all sorts of suggestions from
>$20/ft to $75 per cable drop. $20 per foot seems outrageous to me, but
>that's why I'm asking.
It can't be estimated that way. Since this is apparently not a
competitive bid and you don't have to pay union scale, methinks you
should simply estimate how long the job will take (and then double
it). Add in the cost of parts at full retail even though you bought
them on eBay. You may need to purchase some tools (flexible auger for
the wall) and the usual oversights (CAT5 jumpers between the PC's and
the wall jacks). You may also need a helper, walkie talkies, pull
line, tags or labels, etc. It all adds up.
You probably don't need a cable certifier for such a small job, but
you might find a CAT5 continuity tester handy. I'm really good at
getting the color codes mixed up and pairs interchanged. Also,
standardize on *EITHER* EIA 568A or 568B wiring. Don't mix. Also,
document what you do, label the wires separately from the jacks, and
leave a copy in the ceiling for the next cabling installer.
Incidentally, I did a job like this for a friend and attorney in what
was formerly a medical office. Every conduit was stuffed full of all
manner of strange wires. The conduit ended in the ceiling.
Fortunately, the walls were hollow (but stuffed with fiberglass
insulation). There were 12 wall jacks all going to a central wiring
closet. Wiring the first 10 took about 16 hours, most of which was
moving the janitorial supplies and bankers boxes out of the wiring
closet, and decoding the wiring maze left by the previous contractors.
Of course, very little was labeled and that which did have tags, was
wrong. In 2 days, we were almost done. However, the last 2 runs were
nightmares. I'm not very proud of the job I did, but after another 8
hours, they were working. Of course the attorney decided to re-align
his office to comply with Feng Shui or something. The ethernet wasn't
a problem, but I had to re-run a few phone lines to make it work. Add
another 4 hours. I didn't charge for the two hours it took to load
all the wiring junk I needed into my truck, and clean it up after the
job was done.
You really should ask this question in comp.dcom.cabling. However,
the'll probably tell you to hire a BICSI certified installer.
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 je...@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com je...@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
Ross Herbert
<Mike...@remthis.comcast.net> wrote:
:
:
:Thanks for the pricing info and the website. I've never seen that site
:before. I dropped by SkyCraft today and picked up a 800ft spool of Belden
:CAT 5 Pleneum. I can always use the cale around here. Skycraft had 6' patch
:cables for $3 and RJ45 Jacks for $3. Looks like a good price for jacks but
:expensive for cables.
:
:Mike
:
:
$3 for 6ft patch cable is reasonable. Just try to buy the 2 plugs and 6ft of
stranded patch cable and see what it costs you.
Making your own is preferable because you can't always rely on the workmanship
of those Chinese made patch cables. And I have come across some really weird
conductor terminations which are not exactly in accordance with EIA/TIA568-A/B
standards. I would be surprised if they have undergone any testing apart from
continuity.
Michael A. Terrell
Michael Kennedy wrote:
>
> Thanks for the pricing info and the website. I've never seen that site
> before. I dropped by SkyCraft today and picked up a 800ft spool of Belden
> CAT 5 Pleneum. I can always use the cale around here. Skycraft had 6' patch
> cables for $3 and RJ45 Jacks for $3. Looks like a good price for jacks but
> expensive for cables.
>
> Mike
Mike, the Leviton jacks are about the same price, and known quality.
Some keystone jacks don't fit some wall plates, or pop out after a
while. The last time I saw networking hardware at Skycraft it was low
grade, so I went with the Leviton, at a lower price. Most of their
stuff is marked up at least 400%, so if they are selling those jacks for
$3, they probably paid less than 75 cents to some no name Chinese
importer. I have seen things there they paid 10 cents for, and they
wanted $90.
Also, there is a Dollar Tree store in Eustis:
Dollar Tree
324 West Ardice Avenue
Eustis, FL 32726
(352) 357-0050
Department Stores
Most of the time they have decent 4' to 5' Cat-5 patch cables for a
dollar. I've bought at least a dozen for the shop, and they were all
good. The package claims 60 inch length, but they vary. They would work
at the server end, and possibly between some computers & wall plates.
Buy what you want, but I wouldn't buy much from Skycraft that I might
have to pay to replace out of my own pocket.
Michael Kennedy
Yeah thats why I didn't buy anything but cable the other day. Dollar tree
has patch cables? Interesting, I will have to check that out. Thanks.
Michael A. Terrell
Michael Kennedy wrote:
>
> Yeah thats why I didn't buy anything but cable the other day. Dollar tree
> has patch cables? Interesting, I will have to check that out. Thanks.
They also have a variety of USB cables, most of the time.
One thing you have to watch: Some places will try to sell voice grade
8P8C keystone jacks as Cat-5 or Cat-6. If Cat-5 or Cat-6 isn't molded
into the face of the jack, it isn't tested or designed for data use.
BTW, i was at Home Depot a couple hours ago checking on some fence
rail. a 10 pack of Cat-5 jacks is 29.99, and a 25 pack was twice that.
Single wall plates are $1.95, and five packs are $5.95. They sell the
modular Leviton structured wiring for TV Phone and networking, with the
cabinet starting at $60. MPJA has a nice surplus pre built patch panel
for less, and all you have to do is punch down the wires. It has enough
room for voice & data for that job.
Michael Kennedy
>
> Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Yeah thats why I didn't buy anything but cable the other day. Dollar tree
>> has patch cables? Interesting, I will have to check that out. Thanks.
>
> They also have a variety of USB cables, most of the time.
>
> One thing you have to watch: Some places will try to sell voice grade
> 8P8C keystone jacks as Cat-5 or Cat-6. If Cat-5 or Cat-6 isn't molded
> into the face of the jack, it isn't tested or designed for data use.
>
> BTW, i was at Home Depot a couple hours ago checking on some fence
> rail. a 10 pack of Cat-5 jacks is 29.99, and a 25 pack was twice that.
> Single wall plates are $1.95, and five packs are $5.95. They sell the
> modular Leviton structured wiring for TV Phone and networking, with the
> cabinet starting at $60. MPJA has a nice surplus pre built patch panel
> for less, and all you have to do is punch down the wires. It has enough
> room for voice & data for that job.
>
>
>
Mike
Michael A. Terrell
You are welcome. Let us know how it all turns our.