Old Solder
Joe
need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
5 or 10 foot spool.
The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
Questions:
Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
end was left open.
Is there a definite life for unused solder?
--- Joe
John Fields
---
Dunno.
I've got rolls of Kester and Ersin that I bought years and years ago
where I can still smell the fresh Frankincense and Myrrh and are hard
to make a cold joint with, and I've got some Alpha and some other
brand that I wouldn't use on plumbing without external flux.
Do you know whose solder you're using?
Grant
>A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It just
>need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>
>I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
>want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>
>A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
>had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
>5 or 10 foot spool.
>
>The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
>there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>
>Questions:
>
>Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
>than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
Got to try it, I think. I don't like using solder so old it's turned
black.
>
>What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
>end was left open.
I've seen really old solder where the rosin leaked out the end or oozed
out along the solder wire.
>
>Is there a definite life for unused solder?
Not that I know of, but oldest solder I have here is only ten or twelve
years, it used to be in the boot of a previous car, it's really dirty
so I left it in a box somewhere.
Grant.
Michael Robinson
"Joe" <no...@given.now> wrote in message
news:none-03071...@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net...
Maybe the rosin dried out.
Also you need a clean surface for the solder to flow onto. Even with good
solder, you can have problems if the copper is oxidized and dirty. It's
very hard to solder to tarnished copper parts.
If cleaning is impractical, it helps to dab some flux on it before
attempting to solder.
How heavy was the part or wire you were soldering? The soldering tip must
have more thermal mass than the part you're soldering.
Joe
<jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
John,
I have two spools of Radio Shack 63/37 rosin-core solder. One of the
spools is almost empty (the one that I had the problem trying to solder
with), the other looks at least half full.
Both spools have the Radio Shack stock number 64-015, but they have
different artwork on their labels, and the old plastic spool is black, the
newer plastic spool is white.
The older spool quite possibly dates back to around 1980.
--- Joe
stra...@yahoo.com
I have some Ersin I bought around 1990 - about 6 oz. left. Had no
problem with it last week.
G²
William Sommerwerck
lot longer than just a few years to deteriorate to the point where the flux
no longer "fluxed". Perfumes that still smelled have been found in pyramids.
Michael A. Terrell
Radio Shack solder was low quailty, years ago. I won't buy it. It
used a low grade flux, and the core was inconsistant. if you didn't see
smoke when you touched it to the work, then it had no flux. The rosin
is dry, anyway. It was the old acid core solder that was liquid.
Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy some Ersin/Multicore solder, and
some Kester RMA liquid flux. Between the two, there is little you can't
solder properly.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Baron
Not all solder wire has flux built in !
Also you might find that "Lead Free" solder is much harder to melt,
requiring a higher soldering iron temperature.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
It's probably plumbing or stained glass window solder which did not have
flux in it. Remember "Old solders never die".
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
I do multitasking. If that bothers you, file a complaint and I will start
ignoring it immediately.
Meat Plow
I have a roll of solder that's maybe 25 years old. The rosin doesn't
evaporate.
William Sommerwerck
> The rosin doesn't evaporate.
I bought a big roll of Ersin 63/37 solder circa 1980, and it's still fine. I
assume the flux /will/ eventually "go bad", but that's likely to be long
after I'm dead.
PS: The spell checkers wants to change "Ersin" to "Resin". Fascinating.
Smitty Two
<none-03071...@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>,
no...@given.now (Joe) wrote:
I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period. One
of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating how flux
facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been soldering
fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have no idea what
you're missing.
Tom Biasi
"Smitty Two" <prest...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-13718...@mx01.eternal-september.org...
joints. If the joints are not clean and a little brush cleaning is not
possible then the liquid will be a help.
I use the liquid on old radio (1920- ) equipment because the copper is
usually in bad shape. On most modern jobs it will not be necessary to use
liquid in hand soldering.
Tom
IanM
flux, otherwise it's just extra mess. I use powdered rosin dissolved in
methylated spirits (or 95% alcahol or isopropanol) to make a
saturated solution and a toothpick or small brush to apply it. Although
there is no extra 'active' chemicals in it, just rosin does a good job
on joints that aren't badly contaminated.
It also is good for 'holding' a freshly cleaned copper board for a few
weeks while you are soldering up a project. If used sparingly on
individual joints then cleanup is little worse than with fluxcore
solder, though if you paint it on liberally, you will need to wash the
board THOROUGHLY, ideally IPA then hot water then mist with IPA, drain
and dry thoroughly.
I suspect the flux ran out while the solder was being extruded as Mr
M.Terrell pointed out up thread.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:
whit3rd
> In article
> <none-0307101819110...@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>
>
>
> >,
> n...@given.now (Joe) wrote:
> > The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
> > there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
> > Is there a definite life for unused solder?
No, but there IS faulty and inconsistent solder product in
the market... major brands (Kester, Multicore) are fine.
> I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
> at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period.
I'll second that. A 2 oz. bottle of liquid flux, with an artist's
small
brush, always sits between my soldering iron and the magnifier
(so I can see bad joints, hit 'em with the flux, and reheat).
Rosin flux does develop clumps (probably just the alcohol
evaporating); the water-soluble type is just as good in its
own way (but you HAVE to rinse clean afterward).
Ecnerwal
<none-03071...@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>,
no...@given.now (Joe) wrote:
> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It just
> need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>
> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
...
> Is there a definite life for unused solder?
I've got a roll or two of Multicore that's easily 3 decades old, and
still works fine. Now, when doing repairs, you are often up against a
filthy joint and the crufty remains of the flux last used, plus any dirt
or corrosion it's attracted since it was made - and there just might be
a layer of varnish or the like applied to the thing post-assembly to
additionally complicate life, and none of those will help a bit.
If you can't make it clean mechanically (the preferable option, IMHO),
additional flux might help.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
David Nebenzahl
> Joe wrote:
>
>> I have two spools of Radio Shack 63/37 rosin-core solder. One of the
>> spools is almost empty (the one that I had the problem trying to solder
>> with), the other looks at least half full.
>>
>> Both spools have the Radio Shack stock number 64-015, but they have
>> different artwork on their labels, and the old plastic spool is black, the
>> newer plastic spool is white.
>>
>> The older spool quite possibly dates back to around 1980.
>
> Radio Shack solder was low quailty, years ago. I won't buy it. It
> used a low grade flux, and the core was inconsistant. if you didn't see
> smoke when you touched it to the work, then it had no flux. The rosin
> is dry, anyway. It was the old acid core solder that was liquid.
Not *necessarily* true that RS solder was low quality: I have a roll
I've probably had for 20 years, RS # 64-009A, 60/40, .032 dia. (I call
it "angel-hair pasta") standard rosin-core. Works great.
Dunno about their other solders, nor about what they currently sell,
which could well be crap.
Sounds like what the O.P. was using wasn't rosin-core, anyhow. The flux
doesn't disappear since it's solid.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
Archon
JC
Meat Plow
Never used anything but rosin core flux except to solder copper pipe.
Maybe you could 'explain' what it is I might have been missing over the
last 30 years?
Meat Plow
> On 7/4/2010 3:36 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>>> I have two spools of Radio Shack 63/37 rosin-core solder. One of the
>>> spools is almost empty (the one that I had the problem trying to
>>> solder with), the other looks at least half full.
>>>
>>> Both spools have the Radio Shack stock number 64-015, but they have
>>> different artwork on their labels, and the old plastic spool is black,
>>> the newer plastic spool is white.
>>>
>>> The older spool quite possibly dates back to around 1980.
>>
>> Radio Shack solder was low quailty, years ago. I won't buy it. It
>> used a low grade flux, and the core was inconsistant. if you didn't see
>> smoke when you touched it to the work, then it had no flux. The rosin
>> is dry, anyway. It was the old acid core solder that was liquid.
>
> Not *necessarily* true that RS solder was low quality: I have a roll
> I've probably had for 20 years, RS # 64-009A, 60/40, .032 dia. (I call
> it "angel-hair pasta") standard rosin-core. Works great.
>
> Dunno about their other solders, nor about what they currently sell,
> which could well be crap.
>
> Sounds like what the O.P. was using wasn't rosin-core, anyhow. The flux
> doesn't disappear since it's solid.
I've had a big roll of RS fine solder for ever. Other than the fact that
it's too fine for regular soldering PC stuff etc...it's great quality.
William Sommerwerck
>> at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period.
>> One of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating
>> how flux facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been
>> soldering fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have
>> no idea what you're missing.
> Never used anything but rosin core flux except to solder copper
> pipe. Maybe you could "explain" what it is I might have been
> missing over the last 30 years?
I've never had trouble "wetting" an old joint with a bit of new rosin-core
solder.
Michael A. Terrell
David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
> On 7/4/2010 3:36 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:
>
> > Joe wrote:
> >
> >> I have two spools of Radio Shack 63/37 rosin-core solder. One of the
> >> spools is almost empty (the one that I had the problem trying to solder
> >> with), the other looks at least half full.
> >>
> >> Both spools have the Radio Shack stock number 64-015, but they have
> >> different artwork on their labels, and the old plastic spool is black, the
> >> newer plastic spool is white.
> >>
> >> The older spool quite possibly dates back to around 1980.
> >
> > used a low grade flux, and the core was inconsistant. if you didn't see
> > smoke when you touched it to the work, then it had no flux. The rosin
> > is dry, anyway. It was the old acid core solder that was liquid.
>
> Not *necessarily* true that RS solder was low quality: I have a roll
> I've probably had for 20 years, RS # 64-009A, 60/40, .032 dia. (I call
> it "angel-hair pasta") standard rosin-core. Works great.
The RS solder I tried would spit blobs of solder, due to an uneven
flux core. I checked several rolls of it of a few years but cutting it
open. There were places the wall was very thin, and others with no
flux. I finally wadded it up and tossed it into a solder pot we used to
tin wire.
> Dunno about their other solders, nor about what they currently sell,
> which could well be crap.
>
> Sounds like what the O.P. was using wasn't rosin-core, anyhow. The flux
> doesn't disappear since it's solid.
--
Smitty Two
Meat Plow <mhy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 07:28:40 -0700, Smitty Two ??o??:
>
> >> --- Joe
> >
> > I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
> > at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period. One
> > of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating how flux
> > facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been soldering
> > fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have no idea what
> > you're missing.
>
> Never used anything but rosin core flux except to solder copper pipe.
> Maybe you could 'explain' what it is I might have been missing over the
> last 30 years?
What you may have been missing is the speed, ease, and quality of
soldering with liquid flux vs. relying solely on the resin core. Here's
just a couple of examples off the top of my head, without benefit of a
full pot of coffee yet:
1. Try assembling a through-hole board with several hundred components
by hand. Hell, try installing one component, say a 14-pin DIP. Then
inspect the top side to see how much solder actually flowed all the way
through to the top side. Without flux, many or most of the joints would
be rejected. Without flux, you will spend at least five times as long
doing the assembly.
2. Try installing a QFP100 without flux. Time your effort. Inspect the
results under a microscope. Can you spell "slow and ugly?" Now try flux.
Once the chip is positioned, you can easily make all 25 solder
connections along each side with a single drop of solder on the tip of
the iron. Just spread a drop of flux down the row, and skate the iron
down it. Takes about 1-2 seconds to make 25 perfect solder connections,
with no bridging thanks to the flux. Same technique used on any surface
mount package of more than a few pins.
3. Try tinning stranded wires without a little additional flux. Chances
are you'll take five times as long, and the solder won't penetrate to
the center very well.
4. For cold or cracked solder joints on repairs, there's already plenty
of solder on the joint. A single tiny drop of liquid flux will let you
reflow what's there with far more elegance than gobbing on a big
additional wad of solder just to release a speck of flux from it.
5. Maybe this one should have been first: Ever needed three hands to
solder something? One to hold one of the parts, one for the soldering
iron, one for the solder? Say a butt joint on a couple of wires, or
adding a pigtail to something, or hanging a capacitor off the back side
of a board as a temporary fix? Try this:
Put a bit of solder on each part. Hold parts next to each other and
put a drop of flux on them both. Now reflow the solder with the iron.
You absolutely, positively cannot do this well without liquid flux, yet
the need to do it comes up almost daily for anyone that does any
reasonable amount of soldering.
So don't take my word for it. Go to any manufacturing facility that does
any hand soldering, and you'll find a little bottle of flux at every
workstation. Try it yourself and you'll see why.
Jeffrey D Angus
> So don't take my word for it. Go to any manufacturing
> facility that does any hand soldering, and you'll find
> a little bottle of flux at every workstation. Try it
> yourself and you'll see why.
Oh yeah, I keep one on each active bench here.
Jeff
--
“Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.”
Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954
Jeff Liebermann
<prest...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>What you may have been missing is the speed, ease, and quality of
>soldering with liquid flux vs. relying solely on the resin core.
(...)
Nice list.
I've been soldering for about 50 years and only recently have started
to use bottled flux. I quickly tin both ends of whatever I'm
soldering first. That leaves a little flux on each end. If done
correctly, I haven't found the need for liquid flux for large
components. Tinning and intentionally leaving flux on the components
requires more skill than is commonly available and isn't suitable for
tiny components.
I've recently been dealing with badly reflow soldered BGA chips,
usually inside laptops. The trick is to reflow the solder bumps
(usually with a hot air gun) without moving anything. Without a
wetting agent (flux), the solder bump and PCB solder pad will not
reflow together. Getting the flux to flow under the BGA is a major
problem. My current method is to use a bent needle syringe, but that
only works for small BGA's. Spraying with an atomizer and air hose
works well, but also makes a huge mess.
For soldering big heavy lugs and cables, flux is also required. The
small amount of flux (about 5%) found in common solder is
insufficient. By the time the solder melts and flows into the wire,
all the flux has been burned off. The only choice is to add more
flux. To avoid the drippy mess, I use rosin paste flux for lugs and
cables.
Another headache is mixing leaded and unleaded solder. I have
separate irons and solder rolls for each. I can mix solder types and
get a usable joint, but it takes more effort and often looks more like
dross than a proper connection.
There's also such a thing as defective solder. I once bought a small
roll of "electronic solder" at a hardware store that was awful. The
flux would sputter and spray small balls of solder everywhere. I
managed to do the soldering only to find that nothing less than
acetone would remove the flux residue. Alcohol wouldn't touch it.
More on flux:
<http://yarchive.net/metal/soldering_flux.html>
Make your own flux:
<http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-Eco-friendly-soldering-flux/>
I've done this with violin rosin and pine tree pitch. It works.
Unfortunately, it smells like a burning forest, causing everyone in
the lab to panic.
As for the old solder, I haven't had much trouble with flux loss with
rosin core solder. I have several rolls "liberated" from a previous
employer that are easily 20 years old, and are still in use. That's
not the case with acid core solder (not suitable for electronics). My
roll of acid core plumbing solder looks corroded. The steel reel on
which it's rolled is also corroded, indicating that the acid flux is
somehow leaking and attacking everything nearby. The OP's solder
collection is rosin, so flux loss should not be a problem.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558