Followup on PC built outside the case
D
the case" post, and I'm am having a bit of difficulty, though I doubt
it's related to the no-case part. I know this isn't really a computer
forum, but if any of the very knowledgeable people here have any
insights into the following, I'd sure appreciate hearing them.
The components of the new build are as follows:
-GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel
Motherboard
-Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor
BX80601950
-HITACHI Deskstar 5K3000 HDS5C3020ALA632 (0F12117) 2TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
-CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1333C9
-Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
-Thermaltake Black Widow PSU W0319RU 850W ATX 12V v2.3, EPS 12V v2.91
CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS BRONZE
-Older Powercolor X800 GTO vid card
I have initially set up the bits on a table, outside of the case (so I
can still use the PC which is now occupying the case until all is well
with the new bits). Loading went fine, got online & began loading
software, when the PC locked up. In the ~6 hours I've been playing with
this, it has not run longer than about 20 minutes without locking up,
sometimes only 5 or 10 minutes. It seems fine, then just locks. No
mouse, no keyboard, no ctrl/alt/del function, I have to do a reset to
get it going again. I've pulled the HDD & re-installed the OS on a spare
160 gig IDE drive I have, same behavior, so it's not the HDD. What
components are the most likely culprits here? Any suggestions anyone
might have on this situation would be greatly appreciated!
I should add that I installed about 55 updates from MS to the Win 7
installation (all available), after which it still locked.
Haven't had an OS lock up since Windows ME. I'm already missing XP! ;-(
Dan
baron
Just guess "Heat related" ! Make sure that the heatsink/fan assembly is
fitted properly and recheck BIOS settings for temperature behaviour.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Meat Plow
> I have initially set up the bits on a table, outside of the case (so I
> can still use the PC which is now occupying the case until all is well
> with the new bits). Loading went fine, got online & began loading
> software, when the PC locked up. In the ~6 hours I've been playing with
> this, it has not run longer than about 20 minutes without locking up,
> sometimes only 5 or 10 minutes. It seems fine, then just locks. No
> mouse, no keyboard, no ctrl/alt/del function, I have to do a reset to
> get it going again. I've pulled the HDD & re-installed the OS on a spare
> 160 gig IDE drive I have, same behavior, so it's not the HDD. What
> components are the most likely culprits here? Any suggestions anyone
> might have on this situation would be greatly appreciated!
>
> I should add that I installed about 55 updates from MS to the Win 7
> installation (all available), after which it still locked.
>
> Haven't had an OS lock up since Windows ME. I'm already missing XP! ;-(
>
> Dan
I've never had 7 freeze requiring pulling the plug. Check the event
viewer / system for events marked by a red X. Might get a clue.
If your BIOS has a hardware monitor, check temperatures and voltages.
Remove the video card and use the onboard video.
Just a few things I would try. I'm running an AMD 955 PhenomII quad core
overclocked from 3.2 to 4 ghz on an Asus M4A7T-E, similar RAM and have no
problems whatsover.
--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
chuck
I have had constant blue screen problems using windows 7 64 and an I7
computer though the windows 7 32 works fine. I'm to the point where
I'm about to install 32 bit software and take a performance hit. (This
is on a Dell laptop.) Chuck
Meat Plow
There was a 'sort-of' recall on i7 chips a while back. Google i7 SATA
bug.
JW
I think that was the Q57 chipset, not the processor, though.
Plai...@yawhoo.com
Odds are it is not related to 64 bit Win7. Thousands have been
running it without the level of problems you are seeing.
There are various flavors of 'Ultimate boot CD' that allow you to boot
from CD and run diagnostics independent of your OS. Try one of those.
Check bios settings, both for temperature and for performance. I'm
running Win7-64 on a Gigabyte motherboard and adopted the attitude
that it's better to run a little slower and avoid lockups. I haven't
had any problems that couldn't be traced to the unit between the
keyboard and the chair.
PlainBill
Don Nichols
be my first guess. You might try aiming a desk fan directly at the
motherboard/cpu prior to powering up and see if the forced air makes any
difference. Easy to try, and would probably eliminate overheating as the
problem if it doesn't make any difference.
<Plai...@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3tmo61j9trl5k1fm...@4ax.com...
Jim Yanik
news:orgmo6t4hqdrbr879...@4ax.com:
This may be a COOLING problem. the cases are designed to give airflow where
needed,and I've read of PCs that had merely left their covers off
overheating. the uP heatsink and fan may be designed to work best when the
MB is vertical,not horizontal.
My second guess would be grounding of the MB;in other products I've
encountered where all the screws had to be connecting the PCB to the case
for proper grounding,that some sections of groundplane were not connected
to the others on the PCB,the case did that It also may be connected to
noise shielding.
BTW,I'm still running W98SE,on a 900Mhz Athlon.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
D
> I've seen temperature mentioned several times in this thread, and that would
> be my first guess. You might try aiming a desk fan directly at the
> motherboard/cpu prior to powering up and see if the forced air makes any
> difference. Easy to try, and would probably eliminate overheating as the
> problem if it doesn't make any difference.
> <Plai...@yawhoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c3tmo61j9trl5k1fm...@4ax.com...
Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have a utility called Speccy that
monitors temps, yesterday the CPU was showing 39C (104F), which I
believe is low. Speccy also shows voltages, on that issue, which ones
should I be looking at, and what should the be? I also run it on my
current core 2 Conroe, it shows the following for this setup:
CPU core - 1.168
Memory controller - 1.840
+3.3V - 3.328
+5V - 4.992
+12 - 10.371
VIN5 - 1.616
VIN6 - 1.488
Which of these would be most critical to the freeze situation? This is
a different PC/PSU, and this setup has run fine for 5 years. Not sure
why the 12V reading is ~1.6 volts low. I was just directly measuring
some voltages on various cables on that PSU while the PC ran, the 12V
ones were measuring 12.12V. Any thoughts appreciated.
I hope it's not the Win 7, but I have loaded XP on an available drive &
will see how the PC runs that.
Thanks all again for the terrific input!
Dan
D
>> There was a 'sort-of' recall on i7 chips a while back. Google i7 SATA
>> bug.
>
> I think that was the Q57 chipset, not the processor, though.
Is this the recall in question: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20326 ?
The page says in part:
The problem that's caused Intel to initiate a billion-dollar chipset
recall affects the SATA ports on all 6-series chipsets, including the
H67 and P67 chipsets most prominently used in consumer products. All of
these chipsets are collectively referred to as "Cougar Point" inside of
Intel. Because there are no third-party chipsets compatible with Sandy
Bridge processors, all Sandy Bridge-based systems are potentially
affected, including desktops, laptops, and DIY motherboards.
I'm assuming that since my MOBO is a GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366
Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX, which (apparently) uses the X58
chipset, not the H67 or the P67, that this is not an issue for me, correct?
Also, the flaw apparently does not affect the 6Gbps SATA ports, which is
all I have used so far (New HDD onto which I loaded Win 7 is 6Gbps)
Of course, these things have a tendency to GROW over time. 1st it's
only THIS line of products, then, oh-ohh, it's also THIS line too, and
maybe THESE OTHERS. Companies tend to 'fess up slowly in such situations...
Meat Plow
Don't know if the mobo has a PATA controller but try installing
7 on a PATA drive.
stra...@yahoo.com
When you said you wanted to run outside the case I thought you had
some inexpensive old parts. You have enough money for that good stuff
and you won't spring for another case / power supply? Makes no sense
to me.
G²
Baron
> Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have a utility called Speccy
> that monitors temps, yesterday the CPU was showing 39C (104F), which I
> believe is low. Speccy also shows voltages, on that issue, which ones
> should I be looking at, and what should the be? I also run it on my
> current core 2 Conroe, it shows the following for this setup:
Does the BIOS have any voltage and temperature display. It would be
worth comparing them.
> CPU core - 1.168
> Memory controller - 1.840
> +3.3V - 3.328
> +5V - 4.992
> +12 - 10.371
> VIN5 - 1.616
> VIN6 - 1.488
>
> Which of these would be most critical to the freeze situation? This
> is a different PC/PSU, and this setup has run fine for 5 years. Not
> sure why the 12V reading is ~1.6 volts low. I was just directly
> measuring some voltages on various cables on that PSU while the PC
> ran, the 12V ones were measuring 12.12V. Any thoughts appreciated.
I assume that the directly measured voltage was with a multimeter !
12.12v is fine. Interesting to find out why Speccy reads it low...
Or is this two different PSU ?
> I hope it's not the Win 7, but I have loaded XP on an available drive
> & will see how the PC runs that.
>
> Thanks all again for the terrific input!
>
> Dan
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
D
>
> When you said you wanted to run outside the case I thought you had
> some inexpensive old parts. You have enough money for that good stuff
> and you won't spring for another case / power supply? Makes no sense
> to me.
>
> G²
I was able to afford those pieces in part by not replacing things I did
not need to.
stra...@yahoo.com
D
No problem ;-) This is my 2nd "new build", I've found there's such a
bewildering array of mobos, etc., that I tend to just go for something
that's sort of on the "bottom rung of the top tier", so to speak, that
way I seem to get near-state of the art performance, without spending
the absolute max, and also without having to spend eons studying each
available option. Kinda like buying the cheapest house in an expensive
neighborhood... ;-)
stra...@yahoo.com
> No problem ;-) This is my 2nd "new build", I've found there's such
a
> bewildering array of mobos, etc., that I tend to just go for
something
> that's sort of on the "bottom rung of the top tier", so to speak,
that
> way I seem to get near-state of the art performance, without
spending
> the absolute max, and also without having to spend eons studying
each
> available option. Kinda like buying the cheapest house in an
expensive
> neighborhood... ;-)
And I take different approach. AMD Phenom II processors on Gigabyte
780 series boards. According to the benchmarks, the AMD gets 70-90% of
the performance of the Intels and usually comes in at about 1/4 the
price. The 3 of them together ran about $1400 total, each with 4 gigs,
at least 2TB worth of drives (1.5T + 500G) and an HDTV tuner each.
Next machine will likely be another Gigabyte board, probably an 880
series, certainly with integrated graphics and another AMD. If I get
burned by the Gigabyte boards I'll look at Asus and Tyan but won't use
any more ECS, Biostar or MSI boards. So far I have 5 Gigabyte machines
and another at work and no problems with any of them.
For those who are leery of AMD, the Harris servers used at at least 2
of the major TV networks (CBS and Fox) deliver all your TV with AMD
processors.
G²
D
>
> And I take different approach. AMD Phenom II processors on Gigabyte
> 780 series boards. According to the benchmarks, the AMD gets 70-90% of
> the performance of the Intels and usually comes in at about 1/4 the
> price. The 3 of them together ran about $1400 total, each with 4 gigs,
> at least 2TB worth of drives (1.5T + 500G) and an HDTV tuner each.
> Next machine will likely be another Gigabyte board, probably an 880
> series, certainly with integrated graphics and another AMD. If I get
> burned by the Gigabyte boards I'll look at Asus and Tyan but won't use
> any more ECS, Biostar or MSI boards. So far I have 5 Gigabyte machines
> and another at work and no problems with any of them.
>
> For those who are leery of AMD, the Harris servers used at at least 2
> of the major TV networks (CBS and Fox) deliver all your TV with AMD
> processors.
>
> G²
Your approach makes a lot of sense. I had an AMD Athlon awhile back,
the last pre-build PC I've bought (Gateway. They still in business?
;-), it was fine, once I got rid of that abysmal Win ME & replaced it
with Win 2K.
The temps in BIOS are normal, CPU is about 39C. Also checked all the PSU
voltage with a multimeter, both with the PSU connected & not, and they
are fine. Most interestingly, the PC SEEMS to run fine in safe mode
w/networking. Wouldn't this suggest the hardware is fine?
I am going to burn a Memtest boot CD & give that a try.
stra...@yahoo.com
> Your approach makes a lot of sense. I had an AMD Athlon awhile
back,
> the last pre-build PC I've bought (Gateway. They still in
business?
> ;-), it was fine, once I got rid of that abysmal Win ME & replaced
it
> with Win 2K.
>
> The temps in BIOS are normal, CPU is about 39C. Also checked all
the PSU
> voltage with a multimeter, both with the PSU connected & not, and
they
> are fine. Most interestingly, the PC SEEMS to run fine in safe mode
> w/networking. Wouldn't this suggest the hardware is fine?
>
> I am going to burn a Memtest boot CD & give that a try.
I'm not sure what Intel processors do in safe mode. They might be
'throttled back' running at a slower clock speed than normal. If
timings were borderline at full speed, slower clock could be OK.
Are you trying any kind of speed up at BIOS level? I always select
'failsafe defaults' and then make minor changes like boot drive
sequence and turn on SMART. If I want more speed, I buy a faster
processor and sell the old one on eBay. I've sold 4 processors in the
last 18 months and usually end up improving 2 machines for low net
prices like $50-$100.
My gut feeling on yours is that when you get it in a case properly
grounded and cooled it will be fine. I certainly want to find out how
it shakes out.
G²
Bob Villa
>
> Your approach makes a lot of sense. I had an AMD Athlon awhile back,
> the last pre-build PC I've bought (Gateway. They still in business?
> ;-), it was fine, once I got rid of that abysmal Win ME & replaced it
> with Win 2K.
>
Gateway (and eMachines) are owned by Acer.
JW
id: <4d8bb5dd$0$3362$c3e8da3$9b4f...@news.astraweb.com>:
>On 3/24/2011 6:54 AM, JW wrote:
>
>>> There was a 'sort-of' recall on i7 chips a while back. Google i7 SATA
>>> bug.
>>
>> I think that was the Q57 chipset, not the processor, though.
>
>Is this the recall in question: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20326 ?
>
>The page says in part:
>
>The problem that's caused Intel to initiate a billion-dollar chipset
>recall affects the SATA ports on all 6-series chipsets, including the
>H67 and P67 chipsets most prominently used in consumer products. All of
>these chipsets are collectively referred to as "Cougar Point" inside of
>Intel. Because there are no third-party chipsets compatible with Sandy
>Bridge processors, all Sandy Bridge-based systems are potentially
>affected, including desktops, laptops, and DIY motherboards.
My bad. I didn't check my facts before posting and was going from memory.
That's the bug I was referring to.
>I'm assuming that since my MOBO is a GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366
>Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX, which (apparently) uses the X58
>chipset, not the H67 or the P67, that this is not an issue for me, correct?
Correct.
William Sommerwerck
> properly grounded and cooled, it will be fine.
Ditto. I've seen this with other products. They fail to work correctly
outside the case or cabinet, for no obvious reason, but (after hours of
frustrating troubleshooting) they work correctly when put back.
Meat Plow
PhenomII 955 on Asus M4A78T-E o'clocked to 4 ghz. Not a single problem.
I for one haven't paid for an Intel platform since 2000.
Meat Plow
That would be my advice also. Get it mounted proper in a case and see
what happens. Not only the proper grounding but the proper airflow over
the devices.
D
Thanks for the continued input everyone. Most recent developments: I
again tried the Win 7 on my new SATA, but with a known-good PSU, and it
froze in about 15 minutes. So it's not the PSU. After this, I loaded a
32 bit copy of XP Pro on an IDE drive, and the machine has run for about
4 hours without a freeze (I should add I loaded Win 7 previously on this
same drive, and it froze like it did on the SATA). During the time the
machine has been running fine under XP Pro, the PC has been surfing the
internet on one monitor, while continuously playing .VOB videos on VLC
with the audio muted on a remote plasma (like the older build this one
is to replace, I use the computer for general PC use as well as for a
HTPC), while also playing a 2 hour MP3 on Winamp. One possible
conclusion from this that either the PC, or the video card, does not
like 64 bits. Reading the reviews of the board on Newegg, many people
seem to be running Win 7 64 bit with no problem, so I'm guessing it's
not that the MOBO has a problem with that OS. Am I correct that it would
be unlikely for either the RAM or the CPU to be intolerant of 64 bit Win 7?
BTW, ran Memtest for ~ 3 hours. No errors.
I'm considering replacing the vid card, since it seems a very likely
suspect. I'm not a gamer (though this gear should be up to it), so I
don't need anything tooooo drastic (read, EXPENSIVE). As JL suggested,
I'm wondering about the PCI E 2.0 slots. Also, I've been using a X16
slot (MOBO also has X8 slots). Could the Vid card be the culprit? And
opinions on this card for my applications:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131350
Thanks again for the replies!
Dan
KR
I have had to assemble PC's some years back for applications where a
normal case couldnt be used. One thing that was noticed was the
amount of heat on the backing plate that the motherboard was mounted
onto. This led me to believe that the metal PCB standoffs and backing
plate play an important role in passing heat from the motherboard to
the backing plate (as well as providing a gap for air circulation
underneath. They may also help greatly in providing a very solid
earth connection as well.
William Sommerwerck
I know from experience that memory test programs do not always find bad RAM.
> I'm considering replacing the video card, since it seems
> a likely suspect.
If the card works under multiple operating systems, that pretty much rules
out the card. However, you might have problems with the driver.
One of the good things about cards using Nvidia chips is that they'll run
with "generic" drivers written by Nvidia. (This is also probably true of the
other major brand, whose name I can't think of). Try using one of these.
Meat Plow
Look for an EVGA branded GeForce 9500 series.
chuck
On the Dell that I previously mentioned, playing Winamp while using IE
results in a blue screen within a 1/2 hour . On Friday I updated all
drivers and firmware and ran Dell's self diagnostics; still computer
blue screens when using Winamp. It also crashes when streaming audio
using Real Player though it might take an hour or so. Chuck