Attach Wires to NMH Batteries Without Soldering

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

Hi,
Do you know a technique to safely attach wires to NMH batteries
("C" cells) without soldering the wires to the battery which may harm the
batteries integrity? Note: I have several new "C" NMH batteries.

I know about battery holders, but there isn't enough space for a
multi-cell battery holder in the project I am working on.

Thank You in advance, John

[William Sommerwerck]

Welding.

A Batteries Plus store will do it for a small charge -- or sometimes free if
you buy enough stuff. The store near Southcenter fixed the broken weld in my
B&D battery pack.

[Fred]

Solder your wires to contact pads. Coat the positive and negative terminals
with some sort of protective anti-galvanic grease. Use electrical tape to
adhere pads by wrapping the battery lengthwise. Make a C shaped lengthwise
cover made of sheet metal for the battery. Then use a couple of tie wraps
to squeeze the C shaped cover tightly onto the contacts.

[N_Cook]

<jaugu...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:t626d8pjn0trc3iuj...@4ax.com...

Whats wrong with soldereing? Seriously roughen the metal with coarse sand
paper then a blob of flux. Then a soldering iron greater than 50W and
locally heat enough to get a spot of solder wetted over the roughened area,
don't dally and heat the whole cell. Then at your leisure and ordinary iron
locally melt a bit of your solder blob and meld with some new solder and the
wire. If its for >5 or 10A use then probably not advisable

practise on an old cell first , perhaps

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

Do what Mr. Cook suggests, it is what I frequently do.

[N_Cook]

hr(bob) hof...@att.net <hrho...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3bb14cfc-0c6f-45b7...@10g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...

+++

I must have done it a few dozen times , admittedly NiCads, but no in
service problems emerged over time scale of a few years anyway.

[Ian Malcolm]

"N_Cook" <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in news:kavh8v$mma$1...@dont-email.me:

Me too. The worry is: that you might melt some plastic internal seperator
or similar. NiMH batteries can be stored at -20 deg C so you can put the
cells in the freezer beforehand to give yourself a bit more safety margin,
but if you are any good at soldering that really isn't required. Whatever
you do, don't piss about with a low wattage iron or a fine tip. This is a
perfect job for a 100W Weller soldering gun or a catalytic butane gas iron.

I usually roughen up the contact with a fiberglass brush pencil. Its
absolutely essential to break through any Nickel plating that may be there.

This is safe enough for NiCd/NiMH but *NOT* reccomended for LiPO cells as
you risk turning them into an incendary devicee. [;)]

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL

[Bob E.]

> Do what Mr. Cook suggests, it is what I frequently do.

I second this. I've done this several times with "non-replaceable" cells in
shavers, etc. and have had no failures related to quick-soldering, only the
usual slow degradation over time of the cell chemistry.

Tin the wire, emery-paper the terminals, clean, drop of flux, quick solder.

[mike]

Soldering directly to cells is a bad idea.
It's like driving above the speed limit. You won't have any problem finding
people who'll swear that they do it all the time. They never get caught...
until they do.
Go down to traffic court and you'll see the other side of the coin.

I've soldered a lot of NiCd's back in the day. It mostly worked.
Except for the few that exploded under charge. And the few that
had high self-discharge rates.

And if you're fixing a laptop battery pack, there really isn't room
for that solder joint.

You need to find the sweet spot of time and temperature.
I found that spot with a DIY battery tab welder.
Haven't had any battery problems since.

If you insist on soldering batteries, wear safety glasses.
Clamp them down so they
won't hit you in the face when they explode. Also helps to
have them in a fixed position. You don't have time to fiddle
with the cells and the wire and the solder and the iron
with only two hands. The separator melts before you get
it all lined up.

Did I mention that soldering directly to cells is a bad idea.

[Andy]

Also, use fairly small wire for the attachment and put a tiny blob
of solder on the wire to be attached... Then a quick touch with
the iron will melt both blobs together. The secret is minimum heat
and time, but it is easy to do...... and be sure to use the
emery paper on the batt terminals first....

[Phil Allison]

<jaugu...@verizon.net>

> Do you know a technique to safely attach wires to NMH batteries
> ("C" cells) without soldering the wires to the battery which may harm the
> batteries integrity?

** The industry standard method is a special form of spot welding using two,
close spaced electrodes.

You can get NiMH cells with welded, metal tags already attached - and solder
these.

Otherwise use ordinary soldering - like thousands do.

For battery packs subjected to high discharge rates, soldering produces
reliable, low resistance connections and spot welding does not.


.... Phil

[William Sommerwerck]

> You can get NiMH cells with welded, metal tags already

> attached -- and solder these.

But they're still welded -- which you condemn for high-drain apps:

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = Utter Fuckwit"

>
>
>> You can get NiMH cells with welded, metal tags already
>> attached -- and solder these.
>
> But they're still welded -- which you condemn for high-drain apps:

** Your bullshit words - not mine arsehole.


BTW:

Got any idea what is the OP's app is ??

Got any idea why you fat head is permanently stuck up your arse ??

Rhetorical question -

everyone already knows the answer to that, except you.

You stupid pile a ASD fucked shit.

[isw]

In article
<0001HW.CCF89B23...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Sometimes it helps to tin the cell using a more aggressive flux than the
usual stuff that comes in the solder. Then you can use regular solder to
attach the wire.

Isaac

[stra...@yahoo.com]

No Phil, they were YOUR words from YOUR previous post dated December
20 at 7:41 PM

"For battery packs subjected to high discharge rates, soldering
produces
reliable, low resistance connections and spot welding does not.

.... Phil"

Look in the mirror when calling names because they apply to you as
well.

Merry Christmas

G²

[Phil Allison]

<stra...@yahoo.com>

"William Sommerwanker = Utter Fuckwit"
>
> >> You can get NiMH cells with welded, metal tags already
> >> attached -- and solder these.
>
> > But they're still welded -- which you condemn for high-drain apps:
>
> ** Your bullshit words - not mine arsehole.
>
> BTW:
>
> Got any idea what is the OP's app is ??
>
> Got any idea why you fat head is permanently stuck up your arse ??
>
> Rhetorical question -
>
> everyone already knows the answer to that, except you.
>
> You stupid pile a ASD fucked shit.

No Phil, they were YOUR words ...


** Anyone alive can see they were not.

" For battery packs subjected to high discharge rates, soldering
produces reliable, low resistance connections and spot welding does not."

** Different words & with a different meaning.

Now go fuck your mother, you pile of putrid trolling garbage.

[William Sommerwerck]

"For battery packs subjected to high discharge rates, soldering
produces reliable, low resistance connections and spot welding does not."

** Different words & with a different meaning.

Ya coulda fooled me.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means
just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many
different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master — that's all."

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 13:50:40 -0800 (PST), in sci.electronics.repair you wrote:

>On Dec 20, 12:38 pm, Bob E. <besp...@invalid.tv> wrote:
>> > Do what Mr. Cook suggests, it is what I frequently do.
>>
>> I second this. I've done this several times with "non-replaceable" cells in
>> shavers, etc. and have had no failures related to quick-soldering, only the
>> usual slow degradation over time of the cell chemistry.
>>
>> Tin the wire, emery-paper the terminals, clean, drop of flux, quick solder.
>

>Also, use fairly small wire for the attachment and put a tiny blob
>of solder on the wire to be attached... Then a quick touch with
>the iron will melt both blobs together. The secret is minimum heat
>and time, but it is easy to do...... and be sure to use the
>emery paper on the batt terminals first....

Hi Andy,

I decided to do what the majority of respondents recommended.

I have a 200/260W Weller solder gun and when I gave it some thought,
when someone spot welds a tab onto the battery, it creates a momentary
hot spot on the battery. The Weller gun can't to worse than a spot weld as
long as the time is short and proper preparation is made.

By golly, I had no trouble at all and the results turned out great!

Thanks to everyone and Merry Christmas, John

[William Sommerwerck]

> I have a 200/260W Weller solder gun and when I gave it some thought,
> when someone spot welds a tab onto the battery, it creates a momentary
> hot spot on the battery. The Weller gun can't to worse than a spot weld
> as long as the time is short and proper preparation is made.

Oh, yes it can. A spot weld takes a fraction of a second, and the heat appears
over a small area.

> By golly, I had no trouble at all and the results turned out great!

I hope so. I've seen connections of this sort fail * with the solder blob
simply falling off the battery.

* as do spot welds, of course

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil will never admit to his mistakes, which are fairly common
occurrences. :(

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = TROLL "

> "For battery packs subjected to high discharge rates, soldering
> produces reliable, low resistance connections and spot welding does not."
>
> ** Different words & with a different meaning.
>

> Ya could fooled me.


** Anyone could fool a tenth witted, ASD fucked cunt like you.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 12:44:09 -0800, mike <ham...@netzero.net> wrote:
>Soldering directly to cells is a bad idea.

(...)

>Did I mention that soldering directly to cells is a bad idea.

Agreed. Over the years, I would solder to cells. Most worked for a
little while, but soon crapped out. I did MUCH better with a
cazapitor discharge spot welder.
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=spot+welder+battery>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LKhhyokbQ>
or you can build you own:
<http://ledhacks.com/power/battery_tab_welder.htm>
<http://ledhacks.com/power/tab_welder%20ii.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 06:14:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote:

>> I have a 200/260W Weller solder gun and when I gave it some thought,
>> when someone spot welds a tab onto the battery, it creates a momentary
>> hot spot on the battery. The Weller gun can't to worse than a spot weld
>> as long as the time is short and proper preparation is made.
>
>Oh, yes it can. A spot weld takes a fraction of a second, and the heat appears
>over a small area.

A bit more than a fraction of second. See video at:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LKhhyokbQ>
starting at 0:50. I would guess(tm) about 1/2 second for the spot
weld. I would also guess(tm) that the heat affected zone on the
battery is much larger with the high wattage Weller because of the
longer dwell time and larger thermal contact area. When I was
soldering batteries, the cell was noticably warm after soldering. When
doing the same with a CD welder, it was stone cold.

>> By golly, I had no trouble at all and the results turned out great!

I test my battery packs with a West Mountain Radio CBA-II.
<http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=cba4>
If there's a problem, it will be obvious on the graphs.

>I hope so. I've seen connections of this sort fail * with the solder blob
>simply falling off the battery.

Not if you sandpaper the base metal. When I solder to a battery, the
solder will wet to the edge of the sandpaper zone, but not into the
non-sandpapered area. That implies that there's some manner of
coating on the battery case that should be removed with an abrasive
before soldering.

>* as do spot welds, of course

The real problems are in high current applications, where the weld
turns into a fuse. Power tools are a good example. I did a lousy job
of replacing NiMH cells in a Makita 18V driver. After about 4 hrs of
use, the pack went to open. An autopsy showed that my welds had fused
open. I went to 4 spots instead of 2 spots per terminal, and it was
fine.

[Arfa Daily]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kb4f91$rh3$1...@dont-email.me...

But not if it is done properly in the way that has been carefully detailed,
and by someone who can solder properly in the first place. For a number of
years, I repaired 1st and 2nd generation cordless phones, and used to make
up my own battery packs at the rate of a couple a day. These repairs were
done for a two local phone shops, and for a travelling CB and accessory
salesman who called at many shops around the country, picking up the repairs
one week, and dropping them back the next. The batteries that I was joining
by soldering were of course NiCds back then, but I never had any problems
with exploding ones, or rapid failures, and trust me, if early failures had
been an issue, the shops would soon have been throwing them back at me ...

Arfa

[Michael A. Terrell]

You still clinging to those worthless fantasies, I see. Tell me about
all your work for Australia's space program...

[William Sommerwerck]

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
news:Le2dnaxriNhnEUvN...@earthlink.com...

Phil Allison wrote:

>> ** Anyone could fool a tenth witted, ASD fucked cunt like you.

> You still clinging to those worthless fantasies, I see. Tell me about
> all your work for Australia's space program...

I know you're speaking to Phil, but I worked on the American space program in
Australia, installing and tuning a new klystron at the Orroral Valley site.

With respect to the American space programl... While working for RCA, I nearly
destroyed one of the TIROS satellites. I don't remember whether it was 6 or
7...

[Michael A. Terrell]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
> news:Le2dnaxriNhnEUvN...@earthlink.com...
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
> >> ** Anyone could fool a tenth witted, ASD fucked cunt like you.
>
> > You still clinging to those worthless fantasies, I see. Tell me about
> > all your work for Australia's space program...
>
> I know you're speaking to Phil, but I worked on the American space program in
> Australia, installing and tuning a new klystron at the Orroral Valley site.

Do you remember how many watts it handled? The largest I've worked
with were a trio of 45 KW made by EEV. The band it operated on? A
friend of mine who passed away a few years ago worked at Cape Canaveral
in the early days, installing cabling & electronics for their first
telemetry & communications systems.

> With respect to the American space programl... While working for RCA, I nearly
> destroyed one of the TIROS satellites. I don't remember whether it was 6 or
> 7...

Not on purpose, I'm sure. :)

Phil constantly accuses people of his own shortcomings, and in
general lowers the quality of any newsgroup he intrudes into. He needs
help. If he throws one of these fits in real life, someone my think
they are in danger and hurt or kill him. It's his life he's throwing
away, not yours or mine. I'm sitting here in pain, and having another
day where I'd let them take my leg so a whiny jerk like Phil doesn't
bother me. He needs new insults, though. That cut & paste crap of his
is quite stale.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> I know you're speaking to Phil, but I worked on the American space program
>> in Australia, installing and tuning a new klystron at the Orroral Valley
>> site.

> Do you remember how many watts it handled?

I believe the maximum output was 20kW. They were built by Varian whose chief
engineer was one Mr Goldfinger. Really. He gave me the clue I needed to figure
out why we couldn't tune the klystrons.

[gregz]

Some guys could fiddle with those forever. I thought it was 10kw but might
be wrong.

Greg

[Jon Elson]

William Sommerwerck wrote:


>
> With respect to the American space programl... While working for RCA, I
> nearly destroyed one of the TIROS satellites. I don't remember whether it
> was 6 or 7...

Well, that sounds like it could be one of those "tales from the cube"
stories on the back page of EDN. Tell us more, if you can!

I have a few small tidbits from the sun angle computer from the TIROS
ground station.

Jon

[William Sommerwerck]

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:JOqdnbdu4LY-j3vN...@giganews.com...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> With respect to the American space program... While working

>> for RCA, I nearly destroyed one of the TIROS satellites. I don't
>> remember whether it was 6 or 7...

> Well, that sounds like it could be one of those "tales from the cube"
> stories on the back page of EDN. Tell us more, if you can!

Both satellites used dual, identical computers, with one backing up the other.
The software was periodically modified or updated, and I was assigned to write
the step-by-step instructions for a change.

Although my work was checked by other people, they made the same mistake I
did. I assumed that, because one of the satellites did not perform a checksum
on that section of program memory, neither did the other one. But it did.

The result was that, shortly after the update, the checksum was performed,
wasn't correct, and the computer shut down. For reasons I never understood,
the backup computer also shut down. (This was an intentional part of the
design.)

I quickly figured out what was going on, and my boss complimented me (which he
shouldn't have -- he should have chewed me out). No one was fired, or even
reprimanded. I suspect this sort of mistake was not uncommon.

The satellite was "fixed" by sending commands to reload and restart the
computers.

[tuinkabouter]

You never tested your code in a real setup?

[William Sommerwerck]

>> The satellite was "fixed" by sending commands to reload
>> and restart the computers.

> You never tested your code in a real setup?

The satellites were the "real" setup. There was no TIROS simulator.