Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating

[Danny D.]

Debugging advice requested.
I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life.
I never even looked at the back of one before.

2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just stopped
working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking" noise
started happening.

Inside temperature this morning was 59F degrees in the frig and 49F in the
freezer (outside temperature is about 70F).

Both dial settings are on cold (mid range) where they were always left.
There is no on/off switch that we know about.
Electricity is working (fan and lights are working).

Fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that).
http://i.cubeupload.com/dQOTKL.jpg

Coils are at room temperature and are dusty:
http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg

Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)?
http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg

No reason to suspect icemaker water supply yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/myOvgH.jpg

Top of compressor is hot to the touch but not so hot as to burn (but pretty
hot otherwise):
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg

We hear a humming noise kick on every five minutes for about 10 or 20
seconds and then a click when it shuts off:
http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

The only things new are the humming noise, and the fact that the
refrigerator and freezer aren't working.

First aim is to figure out how this thing works.
I was expecting to see a "motor" for the black compressor "bulb" but there
is no motor I can see - but the top of the black compressor "bulb" is hot
to the touch - but the coils are not.

I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the noise.
Any debugging advice?

[Terry Coombs]

Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a
"bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click
you're hearing is probably the overload relay .

--
Snag

[Rheilly Phoull]

+1

[Stormin Mormon]

Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
system". If you have the owners manual, see
how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
five years, so you're out of warranty.

If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
continue the discussion.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[tom]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tYWfz.64194$w13....@fx22.iad...

I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is
wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and
will not last long.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> ...

> Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg

> ...

As Terry/Snag said, it's very likely that the start cap is bad & the
click you hear is the overload protector opening. (It will cycle back
on after it has cooled.)

In that picture, the capacitor is the black module under the connector.
Sears parts calls it a "run cap", but even so it is very likely the
bad part. You should hope that it is because it's cheap & other
possible bad parts are not.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/10659422801/0582/0165000/k0902005/00009.html

Bob

BTW - you should unplug the fridge.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:47:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
> system". If you have the owners manual, see
> how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
> five years, so you're out of warranty.
>
> If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
> electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
> continue the discussion.

Thanks for the advice.
The last thing I fixed with your help was the washing machine, who had an
F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.

Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before
that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.

I have the frig unplugged to cool the black compressor "sealed system" down
(right now the black top of the "sealed system" is warm to the touch but
not hot).

A few questions of what I should expect, since I'm not sure that I
understand how the thing works yet.

Of course, I know that decompressing fluid freon (or whatever it uses) to a
gas makes the freon cold which makes the pipes that run through the
refrigerator cold, and then recompressing that recirculating gas back to a
liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the
mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through
the system? Gravity?).

So I have questions if I may ask...

0. Are there 3 things inside the "sealed unit"?
a. Motor
b. Compressor
c. Solenoid

1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part?
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before)

2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?

3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?

4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold?
http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before)

5. I don't see motion, but the vibrating can be felt on the solenoid on the
OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What
is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit?
http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before)

In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back
in and report back.

[Bob Engelhardt]

Also - the 10 or 20 seconds of humming that you hear is the motor TRYING
to start. It can't without the cap & that that why the "bulb" is hot.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:40:55 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:

> Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a
> "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click
> you're hearing is probably the overload relay .

Is this black rectangle the start cap?
http://i.cubeupload.com/aOLfge.jpg

I disconnected the spring (what is it there for?).
I disconnected the wiring.
I tried to pull the black cap outward.
I tried to pull the gray base outward.

Neither would budge.
Have you removed them before?

Is there a trick to removing them?

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 07:43:45 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

>> Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a
>> "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click
>> you're hearing is probably the overload relay .
>>
> +1

Does this 20-second video sound like what you'd expect if the start cap
wasn't working?

http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/8/2016 8:31 PM, tom wrote:
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>

>> Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
>> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
>> system". If you have the owners manual, see
>> how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
>> five years, so you're out of warranty.
>>
>> If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
>> electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
>> continue the discussion.
>>
>> --
>> .
>
> I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is
> wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and
> will not last long.
>

You are so, so right. The compressor will
eventually over heat and might burn out.

Thank you, well said.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:47:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
>> Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
>> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
>> system". If you have the owners manual, see
>> how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
>> five years, so you're out of warranty.
>>
>> If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
>> electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
>> continue the discussion.
>
> Thanks for the advice.
> The last thing I fixed with your help was the washing machine, who had an
> F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.
>
> Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before
> that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.
>

CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively
speaking).

> I have the frig unplugged to cool the black compressor "sealed system" down
> (right now the black top of the "sealed system" is warm to the touch but
> not hot).
>
> A few questions of what I should expect, since I'm not sure that I
> understand how the thing works yet.
>
> Of course, I know that decompressing fluid freon (or whatever it uses) to a
> gas makes the freon cold which makes the pipes that run through the
> refrigerator cold, and then recompressing that recirculating gas back to a
> liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the
> mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through
> the system? Gravity?).

CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.

>
> So I have questions if I may ask...
>
> 0. Are there 3 things inside the "sealed unit"?
> a. Motor
> b. Compressor
> c. Solenoid

CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some
have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap
should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably
considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.

>
> 1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before)

CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant
pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.

>
> 2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?

CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The
unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric
watts into heat.

>
> 3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?

CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you
the repeated hum click.

>
> 4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before)

CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.

>
> 5. I don't see motion, but the vibrating can be felt on the solenoid on the
> OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What
> is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before)

CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies
power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.

>
> In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back
> in and report back.
>

CY: I'm guessing it will do exactly the same hum click routine.
It's late on the east coast, I'm going to bed.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>

> In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back
> in and report back.
>

As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but
if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start
kit. Seeing as how I carry them in my vehicle and
use the universal kits at work.

[Stormin Mormon]

To keep these parts from coming off.

Pull straight out from compressor. Might need to
pry with slotted screw driver. Wiggle them back
and forth while pulling.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:40:55 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:
>
>> Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a
>> "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click
>> you're hearing is probably the overload relay .
>
> Is this black rectangle the start cap?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/aOLfge.jpg

Yes

> I disconnected the spring (what is it there for?).
> I disconnected the wiring.
> I tried to pull the black cap outward.
> I tried to pull the gray base outward.
>
> Neither would budge.
> Have you removed them before?
>
> Is there a trick to removing them?
>

The spring is there to hold the cap in place. It is simply plugged into
the overload/relay body. See:
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/kenmore-refrigerator-parts/2264017/0046/106/model-10659422801/0582/0165000.html

It's not clear how the base is fastened, but you probably won't have to
remove it anyhow.

Bob

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 20:42:33 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> As Terry/Snag said, it's very likely that the start cap is bad & the
> click you hear is the overload protector opening. (It will cycle back
> on after it has cooled.)

Thank you for that advice. The start cap does not look damaged from the
outside, but it may be damaged from the inside.

I'm not sure how to debug if it's the start cap or if it's the "overload
and start relay" though.

> In that picture, the capacitor is the black module under the connector.
> Sears parts calls it a "run cap", but even so it is very likely the
> bad part. You should hope that it is because it's cheap & other
> possible bad parts are not.
>
> http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/10659422801/0582/0165000/k0902005/00009.html
>
> Bob

Thank you for that diagram Bob.

Since understanding what it is that I'm looking at helps to begin
debugging, I took the liberty of annotating all the parts on it.

How does this look?
http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif

Are these the primary suggested parts to consider debugging?
- #16=Refrigerator overload and start relay Part #: W10189190 Substitution:
WPW10189190 $45.17
- #17=Refrigerator run capacitor Part #: 2264017 Substitution: WPW10662129
$10.39
- #28=Refrigerator compressor assembly Part #: W10183575 Substitution:
W10233961 $358.40

Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28?

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/8/2016 10:40 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 20:42:33 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
>
>> As Terry/Snag said, it's very likely that the start cap is bad & the
>> click you hear is the overload protector opening. (It will cycle back
>> on after it has cooled.)
>
> Thank you for that advice. The start cap does not look damaged from the
> outside, but it may be damaged from the inside.

Caps go bad without looking damaged (except electrolytics will bulge).

>
> I'm not sure how to debug if it's the start cap or if it's the "overload
> and start relay" though.
>
>> In that picture, the capacitor is the black module under the connector.
>> Sears parts calls it a "run cap", but even so it is very likely the
>> bad part. You should hope that it is because it's cheap & other
>> possible bad parts are not.
>>
>> http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/10659422801/0582/0165000/k0902005/00009.html
>>
>> Bob
>
> Thank you for that diagram Bob.
>
> Since understanding what it is that I'm looking at helps to begin
> debugging, I took the liberty of annotating all the parts on it.
>
> How does this look?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif

How did you do that?

>
> Are these the primary suggested parts to consider debugging?
> - #16=Refrigerator overload and start relay Part #: W10189190 Substitution:
> WPW10189190 $45.17
> - #17=Refrigerator run capacitor Part #: 2264017 Substitution: WPW10662129
> $10.39
> - #28=Refrigerator compressor assembly Part #: W10183575 Substitution:
> W10233961 $358.40
>
> Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28?

Those are them. The cap is the easiest, cheapest, and most likely to be
bad. "Easy" in the sense of removing & replacing. Testing for bad is
not real easy, but doable.

The overload/relay is probably just plugged onto 2 prongs sticking out
of the compressor can. Debugging it might be a challenge.

Replacing the compressor is definitely not a homeowner job.
>

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 22:54:05 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

>> How does this look?
>> http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif
>
> How did you do that?

I just saved the diagram you pointed me to, which also had the parts name
and prices, and I annotated the diagram with the parts name and price using
a freeware editor (Paint.NET on Windows).

> Those are them. The cap is the easiest, cheapest, and most likely to be
> bad. "Easy" in the sense of removing & replacing. Testing for bad is
> not real easy, but doable.

You guys gave me the confidence on the cap to use more force, and when I
did, the cap came right off (thanks!):
http://i.cubeupload.com/uHWsBd.jpg

The relay is still stuck on the compressor.
http://i.cubeupload.com/EnZxki.jpg

The cap looks good and doesn't smell burnt, but, for $10, it's not worth
testing the cap:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PiHwXk.jpg

Besides, there's ten times that in food waiting to be spoiled!
http://i.cubeupload.com/36h0Z0.jpg

Note to Oren: Those aren't huckleberries; 'dems elderberries!

> The overload/relay is probably just plugged onto 2 prongs sticking out
> of the compressor can. Debugging it might be a challenge.
>
> Replacing the compressor is definitely not a homeowner job.

I was afraid of that.

So are these my basic choices?
a) capacitor, or
b) relay, or
c) new frig?

Any idea how to test the relay?

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nlq1vt$km$1...@news.mixmin.net...

Some Digital Multimeters can measure capacitance. Can you find one that
will? Ebay maybe? Measure the capacitor - it should be close to 12 uF.

You should clean out all the dust on the black condenser coils shown in the
one picture.

You might pop the tabs on the relay (give it a good pull or pry with a
screwdriver) and inspect the contact points inside. Also check that the coil
is not open (with the DMM).

Or just take a chance and get new parts. A new refer will be costly.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/8/2016 10:40 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>

> Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28?
>

No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills
that the average HO does not have.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/9/2016 1:27 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>
> So are these my basic choices?
> a) capacitor, or
> b) relay, or
> c) new frig?
>
> Any idea how to test the relay?
>

d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday.

I've never tested a relay. Just replace,
and see if the unit comes back to life.

You may also answer my question, if you
wish. The one I asked yesterday.

[Oren]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 05:27:26 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Note to Oren: Those aren't huckleberries; 'dems elderberries!

Hey!

You can test the compressor for continuity to determine if it's bad...

<http://www.geeksonhome.com/how_7901874_test-compressor-refrigerator.html>

Check Youtube for some videos, too.

I agree with those it may just be the "start/run/cap". Fixed my
freezer for ~$52. It was smelling and sizzling trying to start the
compressor.

Huckleberry

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 07:21:31 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> I've never tested a relay. Just replace,
> and see if the unit comes back to life.
>
> You may also answer my question, if you
> wish. The one I asked yesterday.

Hi Chris,
I answer *all* questions, so I apologize if I missed one of yours.

Thanks to you, I had the courage to pry harder on the combined
"Refrigerator Overload and Start Relay" to pull it off.
http://i.cubeupload.com/ewhAUP.jpg

The "courage" here is better than a shot of whiskey because you give me the
confidence that I just need to try harder! :)

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 02:49:54 -0400, tom wrote:

> Some Digital Multimeters can measure capacitance. Can you find one that
> will? Ebay maybe? Measure the capacitor - it should be close to 12 uF.
>
> You should clean out all the dust on the black condenser coils shown in the
> one picture.
>
> You might pop the tabs on the relay (give it a good pull or pry with a
> screwdriver) and inspect the contact points inside. Also check that the coil
> is not open (with the DMM).
>
> Or just take a chance and get new parts. A new refer will be costly.

Here is an annotated picture of some quick test results:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PmCLK7.jpg

After cooling down the motor overnight, plugging it in, we can hear the
solenoid click on and the motor hum until it clicks off.
(I'm trying to find a way to upload that video for you but it's 13MB).

I checked resistance of all that I could with the following results:
1. Compressor contacts:
Any two of all three pegged the ohmmeter needle to the zero ohms end.
Assumption: The two wire coils inside are good.

2. Overload & Start Relay contacts:
Any two of all three pegged the ohmmeter needle to the infinite end.
Assumption: I'm not sure what to make of that because it's clearly
getting power to the motor in some way and then shutting off in some way.

3. Run Capacitor:
I don't have a farad tester, so, I just checked to see if the contacts
were shorted but they are open to a Radio Shack needle ohm meter (AAA
battery).

[Stormin Mormon]

And, won't prevent you from being a Mormon.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:10:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

> You can test the compressor for continuity to determine if it's bad...
>
> <http://www.geeksonhome.com/how_7901874_test-compressor-refrigerator.html>
>
> Check Youtube for some videos, too.
>
> I agree with those it may just be the "start/run/cap". Fixed my
> freezer for ~$52. It was smelling and sizzling trying to start the
> compressor.
>
> Huckleberry

Thanks Huckleberry for always being there for me!

That page was helpful but confusing at the same time partly because I was
hoping that I could jump 120 volts to two of the three terminals of the
compressor to see if it runs. If it runs, that would be proof that the
compressor is fine - which - after all - is the only part that would kill
the frig if it wasn't working.

The page talked about various letters stamped on the relay, and a magnetic
switch but mine has no letters on it and there is no magnetic switch.
http://www.geeksonhome.com/how_7901874_test-compressor-refrigerator.html

Anyway, I think I'll just replace both the cap and the overload/start relay
combo, and if that works - you guys are heros. If not. Well then, you're
Elderberrys!

:)

Elderberry

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/8/2016 7:47 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>> Debugging advice requested.
>> I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life.
>> I never even looked at the back of one before.
>>
>> 2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just
>> stopped
>> working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking"
>> noise
>> started happening.
>>

> If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good with
> electrical repairs*]? Please write back, and we'll
> continue the discussion.
>

Since you missed the question the first time.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 01:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote:

> Someone has already mentioned cleaning the dust elephants out of the condenser. Dirt buildup causes stress on the compressor because it's more difficult for it to get rid of the heat causing it to work so much harder. The prices on the diagram looked pretty high so if there is a local appliance parts company or a Johnstone Supply in your area, it may be a good idea to replace both capacitor and thermal overload relay. ^_^
>
> https://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/

Hi Uncle Fridge Monster,

We let it cool overnight and reassembled the cap & start relay and plugged
it in a few times. Here is a video of what happened.
http://tinypic.com/r/20ubk3d/9

Can anyone tell, from that video, what is happening?

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:41:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> And, won't prevent you from being a Mormon.

If I become a Mormon, do I have to tell my Italian wife?

Maybe I'll make a deal with her:
Mormon for the refrigerator?

PS: Is polygamy still allowed?

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/9/2016 12:36 PM, Danny D. wrote:
...

> I checked resistance of all that I could with the following results:
> 1. Compressor contacts:
> Any two of all three pegged the ohmmeter needle to the zero ohms end.
> Assumption: The two wire coils inside are good.

Agree

> 2. Overload & Start Relay contacts:
> Any two of all three pegged the ohmmeter needle to the infinite end.
> Assumption: I'm not sure what to make of that because it's clearly
> getting power to the motor in some way and then shutting off in some way.

There should not be any connections between these contacts. They will
have connections to the input power contacts and the cap contacts.
Involving the relay. Without know the internal circuitry, you can't
diagnose it.

> 3. Run Capacitor:
> I don't have a farad tester, so, I just checked to see if the contacts
> were shorted but they are open to a Radio Shack needle ohm meter (AAA
> battery).

You know it's not shorted (unlikely from the start). To check for not open:
- put the meter on the highest ohm setting
- momentarily short the cap contacts
- touch the cap contacts with the meter leads
- the needle should swing to a high reading as the cap charging current
flows & then fall to zero as the cap becomes fully charged

Bob

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/9/2016 12:47 PM, Danny D. wrote:
...

> Can anyone tell, from that video, what is happening?
>

Yep - this video is telling the same story as the first one: the motor
tries to start & the overload clicks open when it overheats from the
excessive current. (It's probably a bimetal leaf.)

[Oren]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:43:47 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I was
>hoping that I could jump 120 volts to two of the three terminals of the
>compressor to see if it runs. If it runs, that would be proof that the
>compressor is fine - which - after all - is the only part that would kill
>the frig if it wasn't working.

Above my pay grade, Danny.

There is a guy on Youtube that harvested a compressor, tested it, and
he built a unit for his air brushing needs. It was fancy stuff.

If I find the link in saved URLs, I'll post it fer ya. I'm not really
motivated today :-\

[Oren]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:43:47 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The page talked about various letters stamped on the relay, and a magnetic
>switch but mine has no letters on it and there is no magnetic switch.
>http://www.geeksonhome.com/how_7901874_test-compressor-refrigerator.html

My memory fails. Awhile back there was a link or video about the
sequence of how you test the pins. No clue if it is accurate or
correct.

Blank stare:

1) Bottom two pins

2) Bottom right and top

3) Top and Bottom left
--
"We recommend using your hand to replace the fuse as it will take much longer using your knee."

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 7/8/2016 7:47 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>>> Debugging advice requested.
>>> I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life.
>>> I never even looked at the back of one before.
>>>
>>> 2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just
>>> stopped
>>> working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking"
>>> noise
>>> started happening.
>>>
>> If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good with
>> electrical repairs*]? Please write back, and we'll
>> continue the discussion.
>>
>
> Since you missed the question the first time.

Classic signs of fucked compressor.

[Gareth Magennis]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:iR9gz.23685$nK.2...@fx06.iad...

Christopher, can you perhaps leave "Jesus" out of this thread?


Cheers,


Gareth.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/9/2016 12:47 PM, Danny D. wrote:
>

> We let it cool overnight and reassembled the cap & start relay and plugged
> it in a few times. Here is a video of what happened.
> http://tinypic.com/r/20ubk3d/9
>
> Can anyone tell, from that video, what is happening?
>

Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed
yesterday.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/9/2016 12:49 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:41:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
>> And, won't prevent you from being a Mormon.
>
> If I become a Mormon, do I have to tell my Italian wife?
>

CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons.

> Maybe I'll make a deal with her:
> Mormon for the refrigerator?
>

CY: She'll love it!

> PS: Is polygamy still allowed?
>

CY: Not since 1890.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/9/2016 2:20 PM, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good with
>>> electrical repairs*]? Please write back, and we'll
>>> continue the discussion.
>>>
>>
>> Since you missed the question the first time.
>
> Classic signs of fucked compressor.
>
>

Says you. I've worked on more than a few of
these, and the compressor was fine.

[James Wilkinson]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 21:49:13 +0100, Stormin Mormon <cayo...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 7/9/2016 2:20 PM, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>> If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good with
>>>> electrical repairs*]? Please write back, and we'll
>>>> continue the discussion.
>>>
>>> Since you missed the question the first time.
>>
>> Classic signs of fucked compressor.
>
> Says you. I've worked on more than a few of
> these, and the compressor was fine.

You doubt the opinion of someone who spent his life hanging fire extinguishers on walls?

--
If breasts had no nipples, they'd be pointless.

[et...@whidbey.com]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:49:13 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D. "
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:47:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
>> Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay
>> on the compressor. This is considered "sealed
>> system". If you have the owners manual, see
>> how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably
>> five years, so you're out of warranty.
>>
>> If it's out of warranty, are you any good with
>> electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll
>> continue the discussion.
>
>Thanks for the advice.
>The last thing I fixed with your help was the washing machine, who had an
>F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.
>
>Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before
>that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.
>
>I have the frig unplugged to cool the black compressor "sealed system" down
>(right now the black top of the "sealed system" is warm to the touch but
>not hot).
>
>A few questions of what I should expect, since I'm not sure that I
>understand how the thing works yet.
>
>Of course, I know that decompressing fluid freon (or whatever it uses) to a
>gas makes the freon cold which makes the pipes that run through the
>refrigerator cold, and then recompressing that recirculating gas back to a
>liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the
>mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through
>the system? Gravity?).
>
>So I have questions if I may ask...
>
>0. Are there 3 things inside the "sealed unit"?
>a. Motor
>b. Compressor
>c. Solenoid
>
>1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part?
>http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before)
>
>2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?
>
>3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?
>
>4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold?
>http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before)
>
>5. I don't see motion, but the vibrating can be felt on the solenoid on the
>OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What
>is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit?
>http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before)
>
>In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back
>in and report back.
The sealed unit contains at least a motor and compressor. I dunno
about a solenoid. It gets hot when the motor can't start because
instead of the electrical energy being converted into mechanical
energy which is then distributed throughout the fridge system it is
converted directly into heat. The reason you can't replace the sealed
unit is because it is connected to the system that circulates the
refrigerant and cutting the copper tubes will let out the refrigerant
and lube oil and let in air. So be careful when working around the
copper tubes. If they are bent enough to constrict the flow the fridge
won't work properly and if one breaks the only thing you can do is
either get someone with the proper equipment to fix it or buy another
fridge.
Eric

[Oren]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 16:49:03 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>PS: Is polygamy still allowed?

Channel surf, find the show "Sister Wives".

Las Vegas court cases... yep
--
... if I had the perfect woman, I'd want twins -- Blackberry Smoke

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 10:20:40 -0700, Oren wrote:

> My memory fails. Awhile back there was a link or video about the
> sequence of how you test the pins. No clue if it is accurate or
> correct.
>
> Blank stare:
>
> 1) Bottom two pins
>
> 2) Bottom right and top
>
> 3) Top and Bottom left
> --

Went to a great appliance store in San Jose where the guy behind the
counter tested the cap and said it was good.

He said the compressor not working could be three things:
1. Bad compressor
2. Bad relay
3. Restriction in the freon lines

He strongly suggested I not buy his relay from him before testing it, and
he explained how the relay works (the white part is the thermal switch by
the way).

He said to plug in the power to the relay (two spades) and check that the
backside of the relay (3 pins) has power to common.

To do this, he told me to create a test jig where I can put 120 volts to
the Start and Main/Run pins of the compressor, with the neutral on the
common pin, and then pull off the start once the compressor starts.

He said if the compressor doesn't start - then that's it for the frig.

So I went home empty handed and then picked up some alligator clips,
spades, and butt connectors and am slapping together a test jig as we type.
The wife and sister were very unhappy that I came home, essentially, empty
handed. But the guy was right that I didn't do enough diagnostics.

The test jig will have two spades on the incoming end, which will plug into
the existing power cable (hot and neutral), and then it will have three
outputs which will be tube-connectors (two hots and one neutral).

The procedure will be:
1. Unplug power
2. Hook two male spades to female spades in power cord
3. Hook a butt plug to Start (hot) and to Run/Main (hot) and to neutral
4. Plug it in
5. Yank off the start wire as soon as the compressor starts

If the compressor starts, then it's good.
If not ...

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 12:57:59 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> Yep - this video is telling the same story as the first one: the motor
> tries to start & the overload clicks open when it overheats from the
> excessive current. (It's probably a bimetal leaf.)

The guy at the parts store showed me a type of relay that has a
semiconductor disc inside which shatters, and when you shake the relay, if
it's broken, it rattles.

The one he had on the counter rattled, but he said mine isn't that kind
(probably a bimetallic strip as you said).

He really talked me out of buying both parts. They were each about 50
bucks, and he said I'd just be unhappy. So he sent me home to do some more
diagnostics with a test cable, which I'm gonna make now.

[Stormin Mormon]

Danny, are my posts making it through your server?

[Stormin Mormon]

Danny, are my posts making it to you,
through your server? You've not answered
my question. And you're going through a
lot of bother which isn't really needed.

But, did you ever do any thing simple?

I leave you to your complications.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/9/2016 6:48 PM, Danny D. wrote:

...

> The test jig will have two spades on the incoming end, which will plug into
> the existing power cable (hot and neutral), and then it will have three
> outputs which will be tube-connectors (two hots and one neutral).
>
> The procedure will be:
> 1. Unplug power
> 2. Hook two male spades to female spades in power cord
> 3. Hook a butt plug to Start (hot) and to Run/Main (hot) and to neutral
> 4. Plug it in
> 5. Yank off the start wire as soon as the compressor starts
>
> If the compressor starts, then it's good.
> If not ...
>

There's something missing here & that is the cap. As I understand it,
the cap is wired in series with the start winding in order to phase
shift its current and get the motor started in the right direction.
Without the cap, I don't think that the motor will start.

Bob

[Bob Engelhardt]

Also, now knowing what the output terminals of the relay are, one can
diagnose it directly. Its circuit follows:

--||-- cap
| |
v v
v v
| |
120 <----OVERLOAD----.---RELAY---| |-----< Start
|
|-----------------------< Run

Neu <----------------------------------------< neutral

The relay & cap could be in reversed order.

If you jumper the cap terminals, there should be zero resistance between
the 120 input and the Start output. If you can't tell which input is
120 & which is neutral, try them both.

Bob

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:00:22 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> There's something missing here & that is the cap. As I understand it,
> the cap is wired in series with the start winding in order to phase
> shift its current and get the motor started in the right direction.
> Without the cap, I don't think that the motor will start.

You're right.
http://i.cubeupload.com/fXXnOi.jpg

By gathering clues, I figured out which is the neutral on the compressor
and which was the always powered pin, and which was the sometimes powered
pin.

Then I created a test jig and hooked it up, without a capacitor.
When I powered it up, the compressor still didn't run.

http://i.cubeupload.com/fXXnOi.jpg

[whit3rd]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 5:51:49 PM UTC-7, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> Also - the 10 or 20 seconds of humming that you hear is the motor TRYING
> to start. It can't without the cap & that that why the "bulb" is hot.

It isn't always a capacitor; 'relay' and 'NTC resistor' are other start components
that one might encounter.

[Bob Engelhardt]

Can you modify your test jig to include the cap? Wire it in series in
the start wire.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:23:14 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> Also, now knowing what the output terminals of the relay are, one can
> diagnose it directly. Its circuit follows:
>
> --||-- cap
> | |
> v v
> v v
> | |
> 120 <----OVERLOAD----.---RELAY---| |-----< Start
> |
> |-----------------------< Run
>
> Neu <----------------------------------------< neutral
>
> The relay & cap could be in reversed order.
>
> If you jumper the cap terminals, there should be zero resistance between
> the 120 input and the Start output. If you can't tell which input is
> 120 & which is neutral, try them both.
>
> Bob

Thank you Bob for suggesting jumping the capacitor terminals to short them
out, as that gave me some additional connectivity diagnostic information
when I checked continuity:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3tJTV7.jpg

The relay has only two wires going into it, and three holes coming out.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HBepTj.jpg

Disconnected from power, and with the capacitor terminals shorted:
a. Red power input terminal went directly to the relay top output pin
b. White neutral input terminal went directly to *both* lower output pins
http://i.cubeupload.com/I3t2HZ.jpg

If I remove the short between the capacitor pins, it changes to:
a. Red power input still went directly to the relay top output pin
b. White neutral input still went directly to the rearward lower output pin
c. White neutral input no longer innervates the forward lower output pin
http://i.cubeupload.com/JwcELQ.jpg

Unfortunately, it appears that the relay & cap are working.
Do you interpret this the same as I do?

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 22:31:42 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> Can you modify your test jig to include the cap?
> Wire it in series in the start wire.

I will make any jumper cable we need to debug this darn thing.

Since it appears (to me anyway) that both the cap and the relay are
working, that leaves mainly the compressor to test (which is critical).

If my prior tests of the relay were accurate, they seem to indicate a
working relay, since there is 120VAC across the two lower terminals to the
upper power terminal.

I wish the motor had a marking for the Start terminal versus the Mark/Run
terminal and common, but there is nothing marked I can decipher.
A. POWER TERMINAL
B. RUN TERMINAL (aka MARK terminal)
C. START TERMINAL

So these are just my guesses for the three terminals:
http://i.cubeupload.com/nsw1mt.jpg

Given that, is this your suggestion for wiring the cap in series:

1. From the power cord (red) hot wire to the top POWER terminal of the
compressor.

2. From the power cord (white) neutral wire split into two wires:

2a. From the power cord (white) neutral to the MARK/RUN rearward lower pin
on the compressor.
2b. From the power cord (white) neutral to the cap in series and from the
cap to the START forward lower pin on the compressor.

Is that what you are suggesting I test?

[Bob Engelhardt]

Yes, I think that's right.

Except that it's standard to switch the "hot" line, not the neutral.
Are you sure that the white input wires are neutral? White is the usual
color for neutral, but inside an appliance they could do otherwise.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/10/2016 12:26 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 22:31:42 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
>
>> Can you modify your test jig to include the cap?
>> Wire it in series in the start wire.
>
> I will make any jumper cable we need to debug this darn thing.
>
> Since it appears (to me anyway) that both the cap and the relay are
> working, that leaves mainly the compressor to test (which is critical).
>
> If my prior tests of the relay were accurate, they seem to indicate a
> working relay, since there is 120VAC across the two lower terminals to the
> upper power terminal.
>
> I wish the motor had a marking for the Start terminal versus the Mark/Run
> terminal and common, but there is nothing marked I can decipher.
> A. POWER TERMINAL
> B. RUN TERMINAL (aka MARK terminal)
> C. START TERMINAL
>
> So these are just my guesses for the three terminals:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/nsw1mt.jpg

I agree

>
> Given that, is this your suggestion for wiring the cap in series:
>
> 1. From the power cord (red) hot wire to the top POWER terminal of the
> compressor.
>
> 2. From the power cord (white) neutral wire split into two wires:
>
> 2a. From the power cord (white) neutral to the MARK/RUN rearward lower pin
> on the compressor.
> 2b. From the power cord (white) neutral to the cap in series and from the
> cap to the START forward lower pin on the compressor.
>
> Is that what you are suggesting I test?

Yes. And as the parts guy advised, as soon as the motor starts,
disconnect the START pin.

[Oren]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:48:07 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The wife and sister were very unhappy that I came home, essentially, empty
>handed. But the guy was right that I didn't do enough diagnostics.
>

Send the wimmin folk to buy dry ice. Don't come back empty handed.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/10/2016 1:48 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> On 7/10/2016 12:26 AM, Danny D. wrote:

...

>> Given that, is this your suggestion for wiring the cap in series:
>>
>> 1. From the power cord (red) hot wire to the top POWER terminal of the
>> compressor.
>>
>> 2. From the power cord (white) neutral wire split into two wires:
>>
>> 2a. From the power cord (white) neutral to the MARK/RUN rearward lower
>> pin
>> on the compressor.
>> 2b. From the power cord (white) neutral to the cap in series and from the
>> cap to the START forward lower pin on the compressor.
>>
>> Is that what you are suggesting I test?
>
> Yes. And as the parts guy advised, as soon as the motor starts,
> disconnect the START pin.
>

WE "got's to know": did you try it & what happened?

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 11:11:31 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> WE "got's to know": did you try it & what happened?

I apologize for missing yesterday.
I had a family engagement.
All the salmon is gone by now, so I have more time anyway. :)

What do you make of these results?

Given:
1. Relay continuity http://i.cubeupload.com/EpNXUi.jpg

2. Relay power: http://i.cubeupload.com/AIlj4p.jpg

3. I guess that these are the motor terminals:
http://i.cubeupload.com/23ew1U.jpg

4. Here is the suggested test jig with the cap in series with the terminal
that I "think" is the START terminal:
http://i.cubeupload.com/WrCzv4.jpg

5. I accidentally hooked it up backward the first time, with the HOT wire
splitting into two, one of which went through the capacitor and then to
what I think is the compressor START terminal - and the other hot went to
what I think is the compressor RUN terminal.
http://i.cubeupload.com/UJcLZD.jpg

6. Then I labeled the wires, and hooked it up the opposite way - with the
HOT wire going only to what I think is the compressor topward COMMON
terminal. One neutral wire went to the capacitor and then to what I think
is the compressor bottom-forward-facing START terminal and the other
neutral went to what I think is the compressor bottom-rearward facing RUN
terminal.
http://i.cubeupload.com/ryMq7y.jpg

In both tests, the motor just hummed but did not appear to start.
When I pulled what I think is the start wire neutral off, the hum didn't
change.

What do you make of this?
What are my options?
(PS: Money is tight).

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 15:02:16 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote:

> A 12uf 5,000 volt capacitor charged up could hurt you. ^_^

The markings on this cap are:
http://i.cubeupload.com/QBVskg.jpg
1. 12uF
2. 180VAC (it was charged to 120VAC)
3. 10,000AFC (I presume this is cycles?)
4. 50/60Hz

Can that 120VAC 12uF zap kill me?
Is it safe (to the cap) to short the terminals?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:22:01 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
Here is a summary, from top to bottom of where it's at.

SUMMARY:
I don't know if I tested it correctly, nor if I identified the circuit
correctly, but if I both identified and tested the circuit correctly, then
the compressor motor is bad.

However, maybe I made a mistake?

DETAILS:
0. Bought in 2010, the wife's Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801

refrigerator/freezer just stopped working at the same time that a periodic
"humming and then clicking" noise started happening.

1. Here is the parts diagram (I annotated in red with the names of the
parts):
http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif

2. Condenser fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that).
http://i.cubeupload.com/dQOTKL.jpg

3. Condenser coils are at room temperature and are dusty:
http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg

4. Compressor tries to start every few minutes, and hums for about 15
seconds and then the overload relay clicks off.
http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg

5. Top of compressor is hot to the touch so I let it cool down overnight
but no change in operation:
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg

6. Here is a video of the humming noise kick on every five minutes for
about 10 or 20
seconds and then a click when it shuts off:
http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

Here is another video of the humming noise and click off the next day when
the compressor was cold:
http://tinypic.com/r/20ubk3d/9

7. I removed the 12uF capacitor which looked good and had it tested at an
appliance parts counter and it tested good.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PiHwXk.jpg

8. I removed the overload and start relay (combination kit):
http://i.cubeupload.com/uHWsBd.jpg
http://i.cubeupload.com/EnZxki.jpg

9. I ran a few continuity tests, which seemed to return what may be
"normal" results:
http://i.cubeupload.com/PmCLK7.jpg

10. Unpowered, I shorted the two capacitor terminals in the relay so that I
could test continuity:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3tJTV7.jpg

11. The relay has only two wires going into it, and three holes coming out.
http://i.cubeupload.com/HBepTj.jpg

12. Disconnected from power, and with the capacitor terminals shorted:

a. Red power input terminal went directly to the relay top output pin
b. White neutral input terminal went directly to *both* lower output pins
http://i.cubeupload.com/I3t2HZ.jpg

13. If I remove the short between the capacitor pins, it changes to:

a. Red power input still went directly to the relay top output pin
b. White neutral input still went directly to the rearward lower output pin
c. White neutral input no longer innervates the forward lower output pin
http://i.cubeupload.com/JwcELQ.jpg

======================
14. In summary, this is the relay continuity
http://i.cubeupload.com/EpNXUi.jpg
(Note that this is not the type of relay that you can shake to hear
rattling inside.)

15. Powered, the relay has two neutrals and one hot (I would have thought
it should be the other way around, but I tested the neutrals to the chassis
of the frig): http://i.cubeupload.com/AIlj4p.jpg

16. Give those two results above, I am *guessing* that these are the motor
terminals (top seems to be COMMON (hot), Forward-bottom seems to be START
(neutral), and rearward bottom seems to be RUN (neutral):
http://i.cubeupload.com/23ew1U.jpg
(Again, I would have thought it would be a common neutral and not a common
hot but it doesn't seem to be wired that way.)

15. Here is a slightly better test jig with the 12uF/180VAC start capacitor

in series with the terminal that I "think" is the START terminal:
http://i.cubeupload.com/WrCzv4.jpg

16. I accidentally hooked it up backward the first time, with the HOT wire

splitting into two, one of which went through the capacitor and then to
what I think is the compressor START terminal - and the other hot went to
what I think is the compressor RUN terminal.
http://i.cubeupload.com/UJcLZD.jpg

17. Then I labeled the wires, and hooked it up the opposite way - with the

HOT wire going only to what I think is the compressor topward COMMON
terminal. One neutral wire went to the capacitor and then to what I think
is the compressor bottom-forward-facing START terminal and the other
neutral went to what I think is the compressor bottom-rearward facing RUN
terminal.
http://i.cubeupload.com/ryMq7y.jpg

In both tests, the motor just hummed but did not appear to start.
When I pulled what I think is the start wire neutral off, the hum didn't
change.

What do you make of these results?

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 6:06 PM, Danny D. wrote:
...

> 4. Here is the suggested test jig with the cap in series with the terminal
> that I "think" is the START terminal:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/WrCzv4.jpg

Yep, that's right.

> 5. I accidentally hooked it up backward the first time, with the HOT wire
> splitting into two, one of which went through the capacitor and then to
> what I think is the compressor START terminal - and the other hot went to
> what I think is the compressor RUN terminal.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/UJcLZD.jpg

Actually, with AC, it's all the same. Functionally, that is - there is
a safety difference.

> 6. Then I labeled the wires, and hooked it up the opposite way - with the
> HOT wire going only to what I think is the compressor topward COMMON
> terminal. One neutral wire went to the capacitor and then to what I think
> is the compressor bottom-forward-facing START terminal and the other
> neutral went to what I think is the compressor bottom-rearward facing RUN
> terminal.
> http://i.cubeupload.com/ryMq7y.jpg
>
> In both tests, the motor just hummed but did not appear to start.
> When I pulled what I think is the start wire neutral off, the hum didn't
> change.
>
> What do you make of this?

You've already determined that there is continuity on the start winding,
so no difference when pulling it does not indicate an open winding.

The no-difference is due to the cap-in-series which limits the start
current to about 1/2 amp (its impedance is 220 ohms), while the run
current is likely 6, 8, or more amps. I.e., the start current is too
small to notice when it's removed.

> What are my options?
> (PS: Money is tight).
>

I can't think of anything else to try. It seems pretty conclusive that
the compressor is shot. Oh ... somebody said that the "Freon" line
could be plugged. That could be, but diagnosing and fixing that would
be just as expensive.

I suppose, for the hell of it, you could try reversing the start & run
leads. Can't hurt & maybe there was a brain fart that got their
identities reversed.

Bob

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nlruv7$c7f$1...@news.mixmin.net...

Oh, oh, oh... Set up a video and put this on youtube. It might be a winner.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 7:19 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 23:22:01 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
> Here is a summary, from top to bottom of where it's at.

> ...

Nicely done.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm19hs$51n$1...@news.mixmin.net...

Just for the hell of it can you take an ohmmeter measurement from any of the
three terminals to the case? It should show open (very high resistance). If
it measures any resistance, the compressor is bad.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:43:35 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> Actually, with AC, it's all the same. Functionally, that is - there is
> a safety difference.

I hadn't thought of that. I did avoid touching the chassis. :)

> The no-difference is due to the cap-in-series which limits the start
> current to about 1/2 amp (its impedance is 220 ohms), while the run
> current is likely 6, 8, or more amps. I.e., the start current is too
> small to notice when it's removed.

Thanks for explaining that the start current is much less than the run
current, so the motor "sounds" wouldn't be easily discerned.

> I can't think of anything else to try. It seems pretty conclusive that
> the compressor is shot. Oh ... somebody said that the "Freon" line
> could be plugged. That could be, but diagnosing and fixing that would
> be just as expensive.

I don't know how to test for a plugged freon line either. :(

> I suppose, for the hell of it, you could try reversing the start & run
> leads. Can't hurt & maybe there was a brain fart that got their
> identities reversed.

Thanks for that idea.
I just reversed the START and RUN terminals, and there was no difference.
It hummed but didn't kick on.

One problem is that I can't tell what's going on from the sound, but when I
hooked all the old parts back, it kicked off again as it did when I started
this thread.

Sigh.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 16:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster wrote:

> I doubt the capacitor would cause your demise unless you jabbed electrodes into your heart and discharged the cap through them. The safest way to discharge any motor start/run capacitor is by putting a five thousand ohm resistor across it. I've used a 60 watt light bulb across the terminals of a big motor start electrolytic capacitor because shorting it with a screwdriver or piece of wire can damage the Faston terminals. If you're worried about any charge on the capacitor, use my light bulb trick. ^_^

Ah, resistance.
Why didn't I think of that.
I'll make a test jig out of the existing wires, and put a 5K ohm resistor
on it.
Thanks for that idea.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 00:08:49 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:

> One problem is that I can't tell what's going on from the sound, but when I
> hooked all the old parts back, it kicked off again as it did when I started
> this thread.

The main problem I have is that I don't know what a good compressor humming
sounds like, compared to a bad compressor humming.

Is it safe to leave the test jig in place for an hour or three to see if
the lines get cold?

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 19:49:56 -0400, tom wrote:

> Oh, oh, oh... Set up a video and put this on youtube. It might be a winner.

Heh heh... You should have heard the wife scream when "I" got zapped by the
12uF capacitor!

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:06:03 -0400, tom wrote:

> Just for the hell of it can you take an ohmmeter measurement from any of the
> three terminals to the case? It should show open (very high resistance). If
> it measures any resistance, the compressor is bad.

Thanks for that advice, as I'm at a loss as to how to know the humming
sounds of a good versus bad compressor.

I did check the resistance when I was trying to figure the pinout of the
compressor three pins, and all are insulated.

But thank you for that idea as I had not mentioned that test.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm1d9e$bgh$1...@news.mixmin.net...

If the compressor is running, the discharge line (the smaller copper tube)
will get warm (hot).

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 8:23 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 00:08:49 -0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
>
>> One problem is that I can't tell what's going on from the sound, but when I
>> hooked all the old parts back, it kicked off again as it did when I started
>> this thread.
>
> The main problem I have is that I don't know what a good compressor humming
> sounds like, compared to a bad compressor humming.
>

That's a good point! Maybe it IS running with test jig. Do you have an
AC ammeter? If so, check if the run current drops after a second or two
with the test jig. If so, it's running. But if it stays high, it's not.

> Is it safe to leave the test jig in place for an hour or three to see if
> the lines get cold?
>

If it isn't running, the excess current from it being in the start mode
continuously will overheat the compressor. That's what the overload
device was protecting against. You might be thinking "So what?" & I see
that point, but I'm not going to say that it would be safe.

Bob

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:33:08 -0400, tom wrote:

> If the compressor is running, the discharge line (the smaller copper tube)
> will get warm (hot).

Which line in this picture is that "discharge line" that will get hot?
http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg

How long will it take to get hot?

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:35:30 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> That's a good point! Maybe it IS running with test jig. Do you have an
> AC ammeter? If so, check if the run current drops after a second or two
> with the test jig. If so, it's running. But if it stays high, it's not.

I have a 10Amp Fluke 77 but I lent it to an ex brother in law, and it has
never returned. So, currently I'm stuck with a radio shack dial ammeter,
but it does have an inductive clip that I can clip on.

Looking at the manual it has 3A, 15A, and 30A AC current ranges.

> If it isn't running, the excess current from it being in the start mode
> continuously will overheat the compressor. That's what the overload
> device was protecting against. You might be thinking "So what?" & I see
> that point, but I'm not going to say that it would be safe.

I don't want to burn down the house for a frig!

[Ryou Kudo]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:35:30 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> If it isn't running, the excess current from it being in the start mode
> continuously will overheat the compressor.

Actually, I just realized I could leave the START wire off, right?

So the question is whether it's dangerous or not to just run with the two
wires connected to the compressor for a few hours, RUN and COMMON?

[Bob Engelhardt]

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 10:20 PM, Ryou Kudo wrote:

Well, you need the Start wire for a few seconds, to get it started.
Then the Start wire should NOT be connected.

But that doesn't change whether the compressor will overheat. Which it
will if it hasn't actually started. With the overload protector in
there, it only took, what, 20 seconds to trip? The engineer who
designed it thought that 20 seconds was the longest that it should "run"
if it hadn't started.

Bob

Excuse the previous null post - brain fart.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/11/2016 10:18 PM, Danny D. wrote:

> I have a 10Amp Fluke 77 but I lent it to an ex brother in law, and it has
> never returned. So, currently I'm stuck with a radio shack dial ammeter,
> but it does have an inductive clip that I can clip on.
>
> Looking at the manual it has 3A, 15A, and 30A AC current ranges.

> ...

That's good - I would use the 15A range, 3A isn't going to be enough.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm1jna$n5j$1...@news.mixmin.net...

The small line on the far right is the compressor high side (output). The
bent tube in the center is the process tube where the system is pulled to
vacuum then charged with refrigerant. The tube on the left is the suction
line and pulls evaporated cold gas from the cold coils inside the
refrigerator.

Do a google search on refrigeration cycle for more details.

It should begin to heat up quickly (minutes or so) if the compressor is
running.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm1dio$c2m$1...@news.mixmin.net...

This may help you if you have a good meter that will read low ohms.

http://fixitnow.com/wp/2010/09/09/identifying-compressor-terminals-start-run-and-main/

[tom]

"tom" <tmille...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:nm1ukf$c9h$1...@dont-email.me...

One other thing to search on is CSIR compressor. That stands for Capacitor
Start - Induction Run motor. Since you unit seems to only have the one
capacitor, it is likely a CSIR compressor. If you can pop open the start
relay and see if there really is a relay, it will be a current relay that on
start up the high current pulls in the relay and connects the line high to
the start winding. Once the compressor is running, the relay drops out and
disconnects the capacitor.

You can do as the one poster suggest and make up jumpers and see if you can
get the compressor to start. Identify the three terminals (C-S-R for Common,
Start, and Run)

Think through the problem and you should be able to make some progress.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 01:19:23 -0400, tom wrote:

> This may help you if you have a good meter that will read low ohms.
> http://fixitnow.com/wp/2010/09/09/identifying-compressor-terminals-start-run-and-main/

Thank you for that reference which said:
a. The highest reading will be the ´Start¡ winding
b. The next highest reading will be the ´Run¡ winding
c. The lowest reading will be the ´Common¡ winding

Unfortunately, I lent my Fluke DMM to my ex brother in law, and he hasn't
returned it yet - but I did check with the emergency Radio Shack dial
meter, and I think I've properly identified the COMMON, START, and RUN
terminals on the compressor.

I zeroed the Radio Shack meter, and put the ohms on the lowest setting
(RX100), and tested.

1. The (reputed) START to COMMON was "about" 5 ohms
2. The (reputed) RUN to COMMON was "slightly less"
3. The START to RUN was slightly less than 10 ohms

Also, I checked the resistance to ground (i.e., to the copper pipes).
First I checked that the copper pipe was grounded, and they were.
Then I checked each terminal on the compressor to the pipe and they were
all infinite.

So, *electrically*, the compressor checks out perfectly (within the
abilities of my instruments).

There is the mechanical part though ... still to test.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:15:58 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:

> That's good - I would use the 15A range, 3A isn't going to be enough.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sticking with me in my hour of need!

I think the problem is mechanical, so I'd first like to clarify the inlet
and outlet.

Is the inlet on the right and the outlet on the left in this picture?
http://i.cubeupload.com/9ZZ7fw.jpg

I am not sure if I interpret Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) specs correctly
(from googling), but this sticker on the R134a compressor shows a LRA of
17.6 amps, so I think the inrush current is 17.6 amps, so that would take
the 30A scale, at least initially.
http://i.cubeupload.com/34bCaq.jpg

I tried the test with the capacitor, and without the capacitor (using a
screwdriver to momentarily short the RUN and START terminals).

Then, as you suggested, I started on the 30A scale:
http://i.cubeupload.com/QzjAQt.jpg

On the 30A scale, the inductive current is 12A:
http://i.cubeupload.com/4gpdlF.jpg

On the 15A scale of the meter, the meter is pegged:
http://i.cubeupload.com/sOBHcz.jpg

I also doublechecked the resistance, which seems to show good numbers:
A. COMMON to START = about 5 ohms (hard to read the Rx100 scale)
B. COMMON to RUN = slightly less than 5 ohms
C. START to RUN = slightly less than 10 ohms

Given all that, I tentatively assume that the motor is working fine
electrically; but that mechanically, it seems to be locked up.

However, I would have expected 17.6 Amps if the motor were locked up, so,
I'm curious why I get 12 Amps instead - but maybe that's because it never
started?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 00:02:40 -0400, tom wrote:

> The small line on the far right is the compressor high side (output). The
> bent tube in the center is the process tube where the system is pulled to
> vacuum then charged with refrigerant. The tube on the left is the suction
> line and pulls evaporated cold gas from the cold coils inside the
> refrigerator.
>
> Do a google search on refrigeration cycle for more details.
>
> It should begin to heat up quickly (minutes or so) if the compressor is
> running.

Thanks for the information as to what the three tubes are.

How is the annotation on this photo?
http://i.cubeupload.com/LQ7jqz.jpg

The LRA is 17.6 amps and with just two leads on the RUN and COMMON, it's
pulling 12 Amps.

I think I have to figure out whether there is a "restriction" in the flow
of the R134a fluid/gas.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm31ki$383$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

The drawing looks correct.

I don't think it is a restriction in the gas circuit. Leaving the unit sit
for a day would most likely let the pressures to equalize.

It might be a mechanical issue like a reed valve broken and jamming the
piston.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/12/2016 10:59 AM, Danny D. wrote:
...

> Is the inlet on the right and the outlet on the left in this picture?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/9ZZ7fw.jpg

I can't help you there. Tom?
> ...

> I also doublechecked the resistance, which seems to show good numbers:
> A. COMMON to START = about 5 ohms (hard to read the Rx100 scale)
> B. COMMON to RUN = slightly less than 5 ohms
> C. START to RUN = slightly less than 10 ohms
>
> Given all that, I tentatively assume that the motor is working fine
> electrically; but that mechanically, it seems to be locked up.

That sounds right.

> However, I would have expected 17.6 Amps if the motor were locked up, so,
> I'm curious why I get 12 Amps instead - but maybe that's because it never
> started?

If the motor isn't starting, that is "locked rotor". That it's 12A &
not 17.6 is not particularly useful. 12A is still way more than running
current. That's 1440 watts & I'd guess the operating power to be 400W
(4A), maybe, probably less. 400W is about 1/3hp, which seems like a lot
for a fridge.

Bob

[Nobody Here]

My guess is the overload / start relay on the side of the compressor. A
quick check is to remove it and listen to it while you shake it. If it
rattles, it is bad. These are around $45 from Sears, may be cheaper if
you prowl around ebay. You can get the part numbers from Sears.
It could also be the start / run capacitor... around $10 for the part.
But I would be more inclined to think the relay. That is what went out on
mine.

On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:22:01 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

> Debugging advice requested.
> I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life.
> I never even looked at the back of one before.
>
> 2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just

> stopped working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then
> clicking" noise started happening.
>

> Inside temperature this morning was 59F degrees in the frig and 49F in
> the freezer (outside temperature is about 70F).
>
> Both dial settings are on cold (mid range) where they were always left.
> There is no on/off switch that we know about.
> Electricity is working (fan and lights are working).
>
> Fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that).
> http://i.cubeupload.com/dQOTKL.jpg
>
> Coils are at room temperature and are dusty:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg
>
> Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)?
> http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg
>
> No reason to suspect icemaker water supply yet:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/myOvgH.jpg
>
> Top of compressor is hot to the touch but not so hot as to burn (but
> pretty hot otherwise):
> http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg
>
> We hear a humming noise kick on every five minutes for about 10 or 20

> seconds and then a click when it shuts off:
> http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9
>

> The only things new are the humming noise, and the fact that the
> refrigerator and freezer aren't working.
>
> First aim is to figure out how this thing works.
> I was expecting to see a "motor" for the black compressor "bulb" but
> there is no motor I can see - but the top of the black compressor "bulb"
> is hot to the touch - but the coils are not.
>
> I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the
> noise. Any debugging advice?


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:36:19 -0400, tom wrote:

> The drawing looks correct.
>
> I don't think it is a restriction in the gas circuit. Leaving the unit sit
> for a day would most likely let the pressures to equalize.
>
> It might be a mechanical issue like a reed valve broken and jamming the
> piston.

I don't know any other way to test for "mechanical" operation of the
compressor.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:29:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

> What mechanical part? Like I posted days ago. You said that you took
> the cap to the parts store, they verified it was good. You have 120V
> going to the start and run winding, it doesn't start. You now know it's
> not something simple and cheap to fix. What more is
> there to do? Either get a new fridge or be prepared to spend:
>
> A - $150 for a tech to come out and tell you what you already know,
> plus an estimate to fix it, and it will likley be just an estimate.
>
> B - Following step A, are you prepared to spend $500+ to fix it?
>
> That's all you need to figure out.

I think the compressor is electrically good, and I think the start cap is
electrically good and I think the relay/overload is electrically good.

In addition to a mechanically bad compressor, that still leaves either low
R34a or a blockage (neither of which is likely), although a compressor
mechanically going bad in just 6 years is also unlikely since they're built
to last longer than that.

It would be fantastic if I could find a picture of what is inside the
hermetically sealed black box. It's amazingly difficult to find.

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm3gi7$7re$1...@news.mixmin.net...

https://www.google.com/search?q=hermetic+refrigeration+compressor+pictures&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=646&tbm=isch&imgil=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%253A%253Bdwoy9-wprqoGfM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ref-wiki.com%25252Ftechnical-information%25252F145-compressors%25252F31773-hermetic-compressors.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%253A%252Cdwoy9-wprqoGfM%252C_&usg=__v0Z_k8Dk-8wDwTgId9DwnpzWm20%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj0xb2l2O7NAhXJ2SYKHQFCApMQyjcIOQ&ei=-EiFV_TpFMmzmwGBhImYCQ#imgrc=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%3A

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm3gi7$7re$1...@news.mixmin.net...

BTW, use the part number on the label of the compressor and do a google
search.

EM2Z80HLT Embraco is the manufacturer.

BTW-2 The LRC at 17.5 amps is at the higest rated line voltage of 127 volts.
That is why you are seeing a lower reading.

BTW-3 If this were me, I would at least try a new capacitor. Also I would
pop open the relay and have a look see. Maybe the contacts are welded shut
and could be separated and cleaned.

BTW-4 Good luck.

[Danny D.]

On 12 Jul 2016 18:02:12 GMT, Nobody Here wrote:

> My guess is the overload / start relay on the side of the compressor. A
> quick check is to remove it and listen to it while you shake it. If it
> rattles, it is bad. These are around $45 from Sears, may be cheaper if
> you prowl around ebay. You can get the part numbers from Sears.
> It could also be the start / run capacitor... around $10 for the part.
> But I would be more inclined to think the relay. That is what went out on
> mine.

I hooked 120 VAC to the COMMON (hot) and RUN (neutral) and then jumped,
with a screwdriver, the START (neutral) but that didn't start the
compressor.

I did the same thing, essentially, with the 12uF capacitor hooked in series
with the RUN, and it didn't start.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:46:59 -0400, tom wrote:

> https://www.google.com/search?q=hermetic+refrigeration+compressor+pictures&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=646&tbm=isch&imgil=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%253A%253Bdwoy9-wprqoGfM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ref-wiki.com%25252Ftechnical-information%25252F145-compressors%25252F31773-hermetic-compressors.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%253A%252Cdwoy9-wprqoGfM%252C_&usg=__v0Z_k8Dk-8wDwTgId9DwnpzWm20%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj0xb2l2O7NAhXJ2SYKHQFCApMQyjcIOQ&ei=-EiFV_TpFMmzmwGBhImYCQ#imgrc=F37BQOH_xZTzVM%3A

Wow. That thing is jam packed!
http://www.ref-wiki.com/img_article/compressor.jpg

It almost makes me want to cut it open and look to see what went wrong!
http://www.secop.com/fileadmin/user_data/images/compressor_knowledge/hermetic_compressors/secop_hermetic_compressor_glass_2.jpg

There seem like plenty of mechanical parts to go bad:
http://www.secop.com/fileadmin/user_data/images/compressor_knowledge/hermetic_compressors/secop_hermetic_compressor_glass_1.jpg

Thanks!

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm3i1e$aas$1...@news.mixmin.net...

I would connect Neutral to the Common and Line to the Run. Connect the Run
capacitor from Run to Start. Apply power and momentary short the capacitor.
See if that does anything.

You might give the can a few good wacks with a hammer in case it is just
something jammed in the pump.

Do you know anyone that does automotive AC work? They would have most of
what is needed to change out the compressor sans a good torch and sil-fos
brazing rod.

Or wait for a good appliance sale.

[Bob Engelhardt]

On 7/12/2016 3:54 PM, tom wrote:
...

> BTW-3 If this were me, I would at least try a new capacitor. Also I would
> pop open the relay and have a look see. Maybe the contacts are welded shut
> and could be separated and cleaned.

...

I agree about the cap. The parts guy test could have been it's not
shorted & it's not open. That leaves a bad value. E.g., a too small
capacitance that doesn't provide enough start current. But I guess that
you could test that by measuring the current through the start winding,
using your test rig with cap.

The relay is pretty much eliminated as the problem through using your
test rig.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:54:44 -0400, tom wrote:

> BTW, use the part number on the label of the compressor and do a google
> search.
>
> EM2Z80HLT Embraco is the manufacturer.
>
> BTW-2 The LRC at 17.5 amps is at the higest rated line voltage of 127 volts.
> That is why you are seeing a lower reading.

Thanks for explaining why I'm only seeing 12 Amps when the compressor won't
start when the Locked Rotor Amperage (LRA) spec is 17.6 Amps.
http://i.cubeupload.com/34bCaq.jpg

I generally try to "diagnose" parts before giving up on them. It's just so
much easier (mentally) to replace stuff that I *know* for a fact is bad,
then to replace stuff that I "think" is bad.

I'm sure it is far easier, mentally, for the type of people who "throw
parts at the problem" to replace things that they haven't completely
tested.

> BTW-3 If this were me, I would at least try a new capacitor. Also I would
> pop open the relay and have a look see. Maybe the contacts are welded shut
> and could be separated and cleaned.

While the capacitor has been tested, I understand what you're saying, which
is to pay a bit less than $100 to replace the cap and starter, essentially
throwing parts at the problem. Or, similarly, I can pay a bit over $100 to
have a tech come out and tell me, for sure, what needs fixing.

Most of the time, when those are my options, I generally opt to buy the
tools for $100, where the tool either fixes the problem or the tool tells
me exactly what that problem is.

But, in this case, I don't think there is that $100 tool option, is there?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 13:34:29 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

> None of that really matters. You still have choice of either a new fridge
> or A which is spend $150 to find out it's hosed, very likely followed by B,
> which is to spend $500+ to fix it.

You should never have written that, because my wife happened to ask me what
I was doing, and she looked at your post, and pointed at me, saying "See! I
*told* you we needed a new frig!"

:)

[tom]

"Danny D." <dannyd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:nm3jg9$d0q$1...@news.mixmin.net...

Apart from this problem, a good Fluke DMM would be on my immediate acquire
list. And never loan it out if you want to be able to trust it.

There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth
looking at.

Can you take some more pictures of the start relay? From different angles?

[Jon Elson]

Danny D. wrote:


> While the capacitor has been tested, I understand what you're saying,
> which is to pay a bit less than $100 to replace the cap and starter,
> essentially throwing parts at the problem.

You should be able to get a replacement start cap for MUCH less than $100,
and just bypass the starting relay. You will hear instantly if the
compressor starts. If it does, the compressor is OK, and the only piece
left is the relay. Some time ago I got a run cap from a refrigeration
supply for $6. I expected it to be more.

And, if the compressor does not start with the new cap and the relay
bypassed, then you can be fairly sure the compressor cannot be salvaged.

Jon

[Stormin Mormon]

Pump out all the refrigerant.
Saw the top off the compressor.
After the inspection, weld the compressor using a gas tight "bead" of weld.
Replace the refrigerant.

No problem for you, right?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 7/12/2016 5:26 PM, tom wrote:
> There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth
> looking at.
>
>
>

Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago,
and Danny totally ignored me. And ignored
my hints and reminders.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 16:04:12 -0400, tom wrote:

> would connect Neutral to the Common and Line to the Run. Connect the Run
> capacitor from Run to Start. Apply power and momentary short the capacitor.
> See if that does anything.
>
> You might give the can a few good wacks with a hammer in case it is just
> something jammed in the pump.

Googling for how to "unlock a compressor", I found mention of a "hard start
kit", which some people say is the same as a "3n1", but others say they're
different:
http://appliantology.org/topic/40875-3-1-start-kit-fire-danger-do-techs-use-them-regularly/

Calling local appliance stores, they say they're the same thing (but that
reference above says they're not the same thing).

The local appliance store has a Supco RC0410 "hard start kit" in stock:
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/Products/SUPCO-RC0410-Refrigerator-Compressor-Hard-Start-Kit__B95530.aspx

Amazon also sells these "RC0410 Hard Start Kits":
https://www.amazon.com/Supco-RCO410-OVERLOAD-CAPACITOR-Electronics/dp/B000LDB89S

Some people equate the 3n1 with the "hard start kit":
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/compressors-line-filter-dryers/hard-start-kits/supco-3-n-1-hard-start-14-13-hp?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CLzx5YuD780CFYlrfgod-QIJPg

My question:
Q: Is the hard start kit and the 3n1 the same thing or different?

Do you have experience with it kicking off a stuck compressor?