How do you drill through stainless steel at home?

[Danny D.]

What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?

From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.

So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).

Nope!

I can't make a dent!
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg

What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?

[chaniarts]

1st, you don't have a Ti drill bit. you may have a TiN coated drill bit.
the TiN isn't to make it stronger or sharper, it's to make it look
better, for the most part.

you probably want a cobalt drill bit.

2nd, you probably want to google this question. there are plenty of
resources on the net on how to do this.

[Rich Webb]

Ding it with a punch to get started, else you'll just skip around on
that convex surface. Use the right cutting fluid and a slow-ish drill
speed.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:58:09 -0500, Rich Webb wrote:

> Ding it with a punch to get started, else you'll just skip around on
> that convex surface.

I didn't get any further than the punch mark with the titanium
coated drill bit, even after 10 minutes of trying:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362162/img/12362162.jpg

[Stormin Mormon]

I'm certainly not an expert. Looks like you're using a drill press, and
small vise, which is good. I wonder, if you rough up the area with a corner
of a bench grinder wheel, that might help. Might not.

You might have better luck with a clamp, or some heat shrink tubing to
attach the loop.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message
news:khb1qo$tao$4...@news.albasani.net...

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 17:16:32 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

> You might have better luck with a clamp, or some heat shrink
> tubing to attach the loop.

Indeed. If there was some other way to hang it by the tail,
I would.

[Stephen H]

This is a piece of Pee.....

I was drilling stainless steel today. 20 holes exactly in 3mm think 304
Stainless steel.

You need cobalt drills. Screwfix do a set for 35 quid upwards

You *MUST* use a slow speed

You *MUST* use a cutting fluid

If you don't drill slow and use cutting fluid, the drill bit glows red
hot at the tip and the stianless steel literally hardens under the drill
bit.

[Stephen H]

and the drill bit will go blunt when trying to drill through the work
hardened stainless steel.....

[DerbyDad03]

Aren't you worried about voiding the warranty?

[Cydrome Leader]

I'd love to see what's left of that drill bit.

[Stormin Mormon]

You might be able to make a loop shaped like a U. Make the long part of the
U, a couple inches long. Slip that over the shaft, and heat shrink tubing
over the U and the shaft. The Home Depot near me has heat shrink tubing in
the electrical section near wire nuts. Harbor Freight has it, in the box
parts section, along with screws, cotter pins, and such.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message

news:khb41k$tap$1...@news.albasani.net...

[Stormin Mormon]

Wonder if a welding shop can weld it? Probably for more than the item costs.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message

news:khb41k$tap$1...@news.albasani.net...

[The Daring Dufas]

I had to drill some stainless steel so I purchased a small set of Cobalt
Silver & Deming Drill Bits and used Tap Magic cutting fluid.
I've had to drill all sorts of stainless steel when servicing restaurant
equipment. ^_^

http://www.amazon.com/Grip-Cobalt-Silver-Deming-Drill/dp/B000IEXA8W

http://www.tapmagic.com/

TDD

[Phil Allison]

"Danny D."

>
>> Ding it with a punch to get started, else you'll just skip around on
>> that convex surface.
>
> I didn't get any further than the punch mark

** Using a punch work hardens the metal.

Maybe file a flat instead, then fit the drill bit way up in the chuck and
try again.

Slowly and with some oil.


... Phil

[Baron]

Rich Webb Inscribed thus:

And a carbide drill ! You can buy ones specifically ground for
stainless and other hard to machine materials.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

[Sjouke Burry]

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in news:khb1qo$tao$4
@news.albasani.net:

Industrial quality drill. The consumer ones are all a piece of sh*t.

[Rich Webb]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 11:14:23 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Danny D."
>>
>>> Ding it with a punch to get started, else you'll just skip around on
>>> that convex surface.
>>
>> I didn't get any further than the punch mark
>
>
>** Using a punch work hardens the metal.
>
> Maybe file a flat instead, then fit the drill bit way up in the chuck and
>try again.

Good point there. I too often myself default to chucking the bit at
the end of the flutes rather than down towards the work.

> Slowly and with some oil.

Machinery's Handbook recommends "Stainless Steel: ... Broaching,
threading, drilling, and reaming produce best results using a
sulfochlorinated mineral-fatty oil" which, unfortunately, exceeds my
knowledge of the subject.

[et...@whidbey.com]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:46:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

Greetings Danny,
For the best outcome you need to use the best drill bits available to
you, cutting oil, low RPM, and high pressure. If you can get cobalt
drills then get them. I noticed that my local hardware store is now
selling split point drills. If your store carries these then use one.
They also probably sell "Threading Oil". Get a small can of that. If
the store cuts to length and threads pipe then maybe you can talk them
out of a couple ounces of the oil they use in their threading machine.
Get the dark threading/cutting oil. It will have sulfur in it which is
a good high pressure additive. Don't make the mistake of using motor
oil. A good cutting speed for a 1/8 drill is about 700 RPM. Keep the
pressure on the drill so that it is constantly making a chip. If the
drill stops cutting the SS will work harden which just makes it that
much harder to drill. When you feel the drill start to break out of
the back side of the part ease up on the pressure so that the drill
bit doesn't break. It would be good if you can back up the part with a
piece of mild steel or aluminum. This will help by keeping the drill
bit from feeding too fast and breaking when it exits the back side of
the work.
Eric

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:46:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.

Titanium is nice, but it's the steel under it that makes the
difference. Use cheaper cobalt drill bits instead. Be prepared to
re-sharpen the drill quite often. You can also use a carbide tip bit,
which is even harder than cobalt steel. A concrete drill with carbide
inserts might work if you keep it cool. Unless you're really careful,
and have the parts bolted down very well, the slightest bit of side
play will break the carbide drill.

Feeds and speeds:
<http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-drills-speeds.htm>

>So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
>opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).

It's probably work hardened stainless 300 series stainless. Find a
magnet and see if it's magnetic. If it's been work hardened, it will
be slightly magnetic. If not, it will be non-magnetic. If it's very
magnetic, it will be 400 series stainless (contains no nickel).

<http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1140>

The last time I had to drill through work hardened stainless, I
destroyed two small drills getting a start. So, I took a piece of
hard steel drill rod, with a squared off end, dumped some carborundum
abrasive compound into the hole, and intermittently ground my way
through the hardened stainless. You can go through glass with that
technique. I don't recommend doing this as it took forever and I had
to grind flat and reharden the drill rod every time it got hot, but
eventually, I had a hole.

>I can't make a dent!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?

Ummm... this doesn't really belong in sci.electronics.repair.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Michael A. Terrell]

news:rec.crafts.metalworking would be a better place to ask. (Added)

[notbob]

On 2013-03-07, Danny D. <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:
> What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?

A lotta bad advice from this group. You shoulda asked a metal working
group.


As an ex machinist, here's the drill (sorry-couldn't resist):

You need a HSS drill bit (high speed steel). If you can't see the
letters HSS somewhere on that drill, it's not and yer wasting your
money. Make sure the drill bit is sharp! Brand new is even better.

You need a cutting fluid. A specialized cutting fluid is best, but
clean motor oil will do, like the kind you put in yer car or lawmower.
Have a squirt bottle or oil can full on hand and keep that drill bit
WET! The cutting fluid is as much about keeping the drill bit cool as
it is in aiding cutting action.

Use the proper drill motor "speeds" (RPM) and "feeds" for the material and
drill size. Generally, the smaller the hole diameter and drill size,
the higher the drilling speed (RPMs).

http://members.home.nl/b.ollivier/html/drillspeedchart.htm

Drilling "feed" is how fast the drill bit is plunged or pushed into
the work. Some drill presses have an automatic feed which you can
set, but usually it's jes experience and judgement that dictates how
hard to feed. I see you have a drill press. This is GOOD!, as
stainless steel (SS) is difficult to drill with a hand drill motor.
The trick to drilling SS is to keep the feed pressure firm and
constant. Once you start the hole, do not reduce pressure or "get a
better grip" on the drill press handles while the bit is still
spinning in the hole. Back it out and start again. Once in, constant
presssure. You may see some smoke from the fluid. That's can be a
good sign and an indiction to add more fluid. You should see chips
ejected out of the hole. Smoke and no chips means you are not
cutting, but "work hardening". Keep adding fluid to the hole/drill
while cutting to keep it cool and the chips ejecting. Add fluid with
left hand while right hand works the drill press handle. Light
colored chips (yel, org, red) are good. Shows good pressure. VERY
DARK blue or purple chips means you are pushing too hard (feed too
fast) and you will prematurely dull your drill bit.

If you see no chips ejecting from the hole, you are not cutting and
are now "work hardening" the SS. Bad mojo! If SS work hardens, yer
screwed. It becomes almost impossible do go past that point. You
will hafta buy a carbide drill. Not titanium coated or any of that
crap. Go straight to carbide. If you hafta go to carbide, NEVER stop
the drill motor with drill in the hole or while drilling/cutting. It
will break that carbide bit instantly, gar-own-tee!

And yes!! DO use a center punch to make a starting point. It will
NOT work harden the SS. Work hardening is caused by the heat
generated from the drill friction. That's why you don't want yer
drill getting hot. Keep that sucker douched! ;)

nb

[Phil Allison]

" one big boob"

> A lotta bad advice from this group.

** Nope - just from you fuckhead.,


> As an ex machinist,


** Got fired for incompetence did you ?

> And yes!! DO use a center punch to make a starting point. It will
> NOT work harden the SS.

** Fraid it almost certainly will.


> Work hardening is caused by the heat...


** ROTFL

Work hardening = hardening by "cold working".

Something most of the stainless steels are FAMOUS for.

Wanker.



... Phil

[The Daring Dufas]

I use Tap Magic cutting fluid. I bought a a couple of small cans of two
different formulas which served me for years before I needed to buy
more. The great thing about their product is the fact that it clings to
the bit and will stay put so using a lot is not necessary. I've used it
when cutting/drilling in different metals including stainless steel. Oh
yea, it makes cutting threads into metal a lot easier too. ^_^

http://www.tapmagic.com/

http://www.tapmagic.com/TMthick.htm

TDD

[George Herold]

Yes, That's my experience, slow and steady and make sure the bit is
always cutting!

George H.

[Stanley Schaefer]

On Mar 8, 1:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

That's a hell of a can opener if it's 1/2" thick! Might be lassoing
it with a lanyard would be a better way to go.

Stan

[Denis G.]

On Mar 8, 2:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

I'd grind a very small flat spot with a Dremel tool (to prevent the
drill bit from skating) and anneal the end with a propane torch. You
can remove any discoloration with polishing.

[Delvin Benet]

I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
powerful laser to burn a hole through the fucker.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:08:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> see if it's magnetic. If it's been work hardened, it will be
> slightly magnetic. If not, it will be non-magnetic. If it's very
> magnetic, it will be 400 series stainless (contains no nickel).

Hi Jeff,
Interesting diagnostics. The flat part (where I don't want to
attach a cord) is slightly magnetic. The cylindrical handle
(where I do want to drill) is not magnetic at all.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366090/img/12366090.jpg

I had not realized how hard stainless steel is!

[Jim Wilkins]

"Denis G." <guille...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc5768a5-40b2-48ee...@c6g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

On Mar 8, 2:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> "Danny D." wrote:
>
> > What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless
> > steel?
>
> > From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill
> > bits.
>
> > So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel
> > can
> > opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
> > Nope!
>
> > I can't make a dent!
> > http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
> > What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>
> news:rec.crafts.metalworking would be a better place to ask. (Added)

-I'd grind a very small flat spot with a Dremel tool (to prevent the
-drill bit from skating) and anneal the end with a propane torch. You
-can remove any discoloration with polishing.

Can openers are hard enough to keep their edge while puncturing steel
cans, such as tomato juice comes in..
http://www.metalsuppliersonline.com/propertypages/302.asp
"Cold working will dramatically increase the hardness of this
material,"

I've seen tensile strength listed as high as 200,000 PSI for Type 302
used for pallet strapping.

You could hang the can opener by a Prusik loop of fancy boot lacing
etc around the middle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik

This knot survives handling better than a square knot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman's_knot

If you use braided Nylon cord you can melt and fuse the ends of the
loop and roll the warm joint flush so it nearly disappears.
jsw

[Jim Wilkins]

"Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote in message
news:2631a$513a0d56$414e828e$15...@EVERESTKC.NET...

>
> I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
> powerful laser to burn a hole through the fucker.
>

You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
you?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:27:30 -0800, Stanley Schaefer wrote:

> That's a hell of a can opener if it's 1/2" thick! Might be lassoing
> it with a lanyard would be a better way to go.

Yeah, it's a doozie (for a can opener)!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366196/img/12366196.jpg

I bought it at Bed Bath & Beyond for $4, hoping to lanyard it
outside. It's too smooth to just tie a cord around the handle.

And, it's not magnetic & therefore very hard to drill with
my vanadium-coated (brass color) steel drill bits:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366090/img/12366090.jpg

[Jeff Liebermann]

On 8 Mar 2013 11:48:30 GMT, notbob <not...@nothome.com> wrote:

>Work hardening is caused by the heat
>generated from the drill friction. That's why you don't want yer
>drill getting hot. Keep that sucker douched! ;)

In my checkered past, I once worked for a company that made air
droppable tank gun barrels and such. I swept the floor, which is a
good indication of my level of expertise at the time. The company was
called "Hydromill" which is a clue of how things were machined. Most
everything was machined submerged in a tank of coolant. I don't know
if it will work, but submerging the drill, stainless part, and vise in
a small tub of oil, while drilling, might slow down the work
hardening. I've never tried this mostly because it's too messy.

[Joe AutoDrill]

Persoanlly, I drill small holes first. Then I enlarge the holes to the
proper size with a larger "bit".

I simply put some motor oil on the area to keep the tooling cool (mega
important) and if I'm using my at home drill press, I follow this chart
for RPM rates:

http://www.drill-hq.com/?page_id=785 or
http://www.multi-drill.com/drill-speed-chart.htm

#1 important thing to do is use oil or something similar to lubricate
and cool the tooling. Otherwise you run into all types of issues.

Much success.

--
http://tinyurl.com/My-Official-Response

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022 x113
01.908.542.0244
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

[Ed Huntress]

It's unlikely that annealing with a torch will do much. The
overwhelming problem drilling stainless, of the common 300-series, is
what Dan said: work-hardening.

With grades 304 and up, the work-hardening effect is fierce. It
requires some experience and a steady hand to drill it with a
manual-feed drill press. It will work-harden in a fraction of a second
and it then becomes problematic whether you can re-start the drill
through the work-hardened layer. That's what burns the edges of HSS
drills used on stainless more than anything else. It breaks them, too,
in sizes of 1/4" or less.

--
Ed Huntress

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:28:36 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:08:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> see if it's magnetic. If it's been work hardened, it will be
>> slightly magnetic. If not, it will be non-magnetic. If it's very
>> magnetic, it will be 400 series stainless (contains no nickel).

>Interesting diagnostics. The flat part (where I don't want to
>attach a cord) is slightly magnetic. The cylindrical handle
>(where I do want to drill) is not magnetic at all.
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366090/img/12366090.jpg

Both parts are the same material, probably something in the 300
series. The flat part has been stamped or punched, which work hardens
the part, and produces the slight magnetic effect. Nothing pounded on
the handle, so it's not magnetic.

>I had not realized how hard stainless steel is!

Hardly and that's NOT your problem. Trying to drill a rounded surface
directly is going to cause a very different problem. Visualize what a
cross section of the contact area at the round stainless handle and
drill interface. The only point of contact is at the very tiny tip of
the drill, where there's no cutting edge. You can spin that all day
long and never get the drill bit to cut any metal.

Take a bench grinder and put a flat area where you want to drill.
Grind or punch a starter hole. That will give the drill bit cutting
edge something to bite into. After that, you should be all right.

Incidentally, you haven't suffered until you've tried to machine
titanium.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:52:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> In my checkered past, I once worked for a company that made air
> droppable tank gun barrels and such. I swept the floor, which is a good
> indication of my level of expertise at the time. The company was called
> "Hydromill" which is a clue of how things were machined. Most
> everything was machined submerged in a tank of coolant. I don't know if
> it will work, but submerging the drill, stainless part, and vise in a
> small tub of oil, while drilling, might slow down the work hardening.
> I've never tried this mostly because it's too messy.

Hi Jeff,
Funny you mention your floor-sweeping past, as I also had
a summer job at a "plant" filled with metalworking machines
and Germans running them (real Germans, with heavy accents).

They 'drilled' .010" holes in jet turbine blades using a machine
they called the "EDM" machine. It never once broke a bit because
it drilled by automatic feed in a bath of kerosene dialectic
simply by shooting electric current through the bit which was
merely very close to the steel being 'drilled'.

I think the EDM stood for Electro Dialectric Machining, and
the concepts were that the sparks "ate away" the metal.

Needless to say, I didn't bring one home with me...

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 22:23:55 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>Indeed. If there was some other way to hang it by the tail,
>I would.

Sheesh... why didn't you mention that before?

1. Do you have a bench grinder? If so, grind a groove around the
circumference of the handle. Tie a rope around the groove. Pull
tight. It shouldn't slip.

2. Shrink tube and rope. I have some really nasty shrink tube used
by PGE to insulate splices. It's quite thick and comes with a sticky
heat activated glue on the inside. Put your rope or hook under the
shrink tube and use a heat gun to lock it in place.
<http://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Marine-Electrical-Adhesive-Shrink/dp/B000QCPKE8>

3. Do a knife handle wrap. Find some flat leather strips, and lace
it like it was a knife handle. Apply wet, and it will shrink into
place. Attach a rope or hook under the leather.

4. Chinese finger trap. Find one. Apply glue. Slide over handle.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_finger_trap>
Ummm... don't forget to remove your finger first.

5. Compression fitting. See if you can find a 1/2" compression
fitting. It think something in the plumbing department will work.
Watch out for stainless to copper corrosion. Also, the electrical
department will have power cord compression outlet fittings for
electrical junction boxes that might be 1/2". Use your imagination on
how to attach a hook.

6. Capacitive discharge spot welding. It's tricky to weld to such a
large thermal sink, but I think it can be done with a sufficiently big
capacitor. Spot weld a hook onto the handle.

etc...

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/7/2013 3:46 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>
> From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.
>
> So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
> opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
> Nope!
>
> I can't make a dent!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
> What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>

Ya know, I just remembered that I used my Dremel Tool to make a hole in
some extremely hard metal on one occasion. I used a little carbide ball
bit and it worked quite well but wasn't as fast as drilling. ^_^

TDD

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> 1. Do you have a bench grinder?

> 2. Shrink tube and rope.

> 3. Do a knife handle wrap.

> 4. Chinese finger trap.
> 5. Compression fitting.
> 6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

[Jim Wilkins]

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message
news:khd4ps$pvu$3...@news.albasani.net...

Oooh, I could have fun making a 'novelty' hanger for that!

Anneal the handle, drill lengthwise, swage or epoxy in a cable loop
with a "Remove Before Flight" tag.
http://www.legendaryusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RBFT&utm_source=google&utm_medium=CSE&utm_term=RBFT&utm_campaign=BROI&click=25391%20&gdftrk=gdfV25409_a_7c1799_a_7c6830_a_7cRBFT

Variations on the Hangman's Noose make good decorative tool handle
grips with loops.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>Funny you mention your floor-sweeping past, as I also had
>a summer job at a "plant" filled with metalworking machines
>and Germans running them (real Germans, with heavy accents).

I was born in Germany. Sorry, no accent left.

>They 'drilled' .010" holes in jet turbine blades using a machine
>they called the "EDM" machine. It never once broke a bit because
>it drilled by automatic feed in a bath of kerosene dialectic
>simply by shooting electric current through the bit which was
>merely very close to the steel being 'drilled'.

Today, they use a laser.

>I think the EDM stood for Electro Dialectric Machining, and
>the concepts were that the sparks "ate away" the metal.

I think you might mean Electrical Discharge Mangling:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining>

>Needless to say, I didn't bring one home with me...

During my Cal Poly Pomona daze, part of the general engineering
curriculum was to run the prospective engineer through every possible
metal working machine available. If they had it, I tried (to destroy)
it. My favorite was the submerged arc welder, where I successfully
created a hot powdered metal and flux volcano. Another was a rather
large spot welder, where I convinced a not very swift student to apply
grease to his sheet metal parts before welding. The result was a
small grease explosion, and a burn line across his shirt from elbow to
elbow. My councilor decided that electronics would be a safer major
for me.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:07:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Both parts are the same material, probably something in the 300 series.
> The flat part has been stamped or punched, which work hardens the part,
> and produces the slight magnetic effect. Nothing pounded on the handle,
> so it's not magnetic.

Hi Jeff,

Up until you said that, I had simply assumed it was two different
components. Looking closely, and snapping a picture in the sunlight,
now I'm not so sure. It just might be one piece!

Here is a large photo of the junction between the flat & the round:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366663/img/12366663.jpg

Small photo of the same thing:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366663/640/12366663.jpg

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
>"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I don't invent anything. I steal all of my ideas.

>I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
>so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

You'll also need a left-handed wrench for removing/installing the
grinding wheel.

>BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I just noticed the coil cord on the telephone handset. Wrap an old
handset coil cord over a hook, around the handle, and add some glue.
Totally ugly, but easier than drilling.

Personally, I like the shrinking leather knife handle wrap method
mostly because the result will be more artistic than the others.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:27:57 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

> I used my Dremel Tool to make a hole in some extremely hard metal on one
> occasion. I used a little carbide ball bit and it worked quite well

I have one of those!
I've never used it (it came with the bits).
I'll see if it works.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:38:39 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:07:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> Both parts are the same material, probably something in the 300 series.
>> The flat part has been stamped or punched, which work hardens the part,
>> and produces the slight magnetic effect. Nothing pounded on the handle,
>> so it's not magnetic.

>Up until you said that, I had simply assumed it was two different
>components. Looking closely, and snapping a picture in the sunlight,
>now I'm not so sure. It just might be one piece!

It's two pieces with a tack weld at the joint. You can see the puddle
of metal in the photo. Also notice that the polishing marks are in
different directions on the two parts.

>Here is a large photo of the junction between the flat & the round:
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366663/img/12366663.jpg

[The Daring Dufas]

I had to get out a broken grade8 stud that was below the surface of the
block on a generator engine and the Dremel Tool made a hole for a screw
extractor. A drill bit wouldn't work. ^_^

TDD

[Delvin Benet]

On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.n�t> wrote in message

I was just making a joke. You take things too seriously.

[Delvin Benet]

On 3/8/2013 10:15 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

>> "Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote in message

>> news:2631a$513a0d56$414e828e$15...@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>
>>> I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
>>> powerful laser to burn a hole through the fucker.
>>>
>> You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
>> you?
>
> I was just making a joke. You take things too seriously.

Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment in
determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a better use
of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a part, or to
hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue in being *able*
to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in actually *doing* it.

Back around 1977 or so, I had a colleague who constantly prattled on
about the virtue of working on one's car. He not only considered it a
virtue to do so, he considered it a moral failing in those who didn't.
In that era, business attire - suits - was still standard. One time
when this goof was nattering on about fixing one's own car and
expressing his disdain for those who didn't, I said, "Well, you could
always buy a couple of gallon cans of dry cleaning fluid and dryclean
your own suits, too. Do you?" He just gave me a dirty look and turned
away.

[The Daring Dufas]

I suppose you would criticize a cowboy who tried to repair his horse? ^_^

TDD

[Denis G.]

I understand your concerns with the work hardening. It can be a
difficult problem, but not always impossible. As long as he doesn't
break the drill bit in the hole (causing more complications), I
believe that he can remove work hardening with heat. He has some
advantage in that he's drilling near the end of the rod where it can
be easily heated without warping the piece. It could be difficult,
but not necessarily impossible. (If the drill bit broke in the hole,
I'd weld on a D-ring and cover up my mistake <g>, but then the OP
might not have a TIG welder.)

[Delvin Benet]

LOL! Maybe not if he was a veterinarian.

Cowboy...reminds me of a couple of good jokes.

An old cowboy sat down at the bar and ordered a drink. As he sat sipping
his drink, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the cowboy
and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?" He replied, "Well, I've spent my
whole life breaking colts, working cows, going to rodeos, fixing fences,
pulling calves, baling hay, doctoring calves, cleaning my barn, fixing
flats, working on tractors, and feeding my dogs, so I guess I am a cowboy."

She said, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. As
soon as I get up in the morning, I think about women. When I shower, I
think about women. When I watch TV, I think about women. I even think
about women when I eat. It seems that everything makes me think of women."

The two sat sipping in silence.

A little while later, a man sat down on the other side of the old cowboy
and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"

He replied, "I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."



Three cowboys stood around the campfire out on the range one evening.
The cattle were rounded up, the meal eaten, the utensils cleaned and put
away, and soon the tall tales began. "I must be the roughest, toughest
cowboy in these parts," said the first. "Last week, back at the ranch,
a bull got loose in the corral and gored three other cowpokes before I
jumped in and rassled him to the ground with my bare hands." The second
cowboy couldn't stand to be outdone. "Why, that's nothin'. The other
day, as I was ridin' down the trail, a 15-foot rattler come out from
under a rock and made a move for me. I jumped off my horse, grabbed him
and bit his head off and swallowed it, poison and all...and I'm still
here!" The third cowboy just stood by silently, slowly stirring the
coals with his prick.

[jim]

Delvin Benet wrote:

> There is virtue in being *able*
> to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
> actually *doing* it.

It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
that it is possible to become "able"
without ever actually "doing".

[George Plimpton]

As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written. You might be able to
do something as a matter of prior training and practice, but that
doesn't mean you should always undertake to do it in future.

You would walk into the propellers. You are monumentally stupid.

[jim]

George Plimpton wrote:
>
> On 3/8/2013 11:10 AM, jim wrote:
> >
> >
> > Delvin Benet wrote:
> >
> >> There is virtue in being *able*
> >> to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
> >> actually *doing* it.
> >
> > It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
> > that it is possible to become "able"
> > without ever actually "doing".
>
> As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written.

Apparently you immediately concluded I
was making a reference to you.
Why did you think that?

[Stormin Mormon]

Much like the heat shrink tubing someone
with the initials C.Y. mentioned?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Danny D." <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote in message

news:khd74l$pvu$5...@news.albasani.net...

[George Plimpton]

You simply ran your mouth and as usual said something stupid and pointless.

[Boris]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:44:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Personally, I like the shrinking leather knife handle wrap method mostly
> because the result will be more artistic than the others.

Wasn't than an old native american torture?

[Ed Huntress]

He can. And then it re-appears in a second, if he doesn't feed with
sufficient pressure ('way more than he may be used to with common
grades of steel).

It may be that his only problem is with the initial state of the
stainless, in which case annealing can solve the problem, if the
stainless was left in the as-rolled state to begin with. More likely,
though, he's starting too slow, with insufficient feed pressure, and
work-hardening it himself. That's so common for people who aren't used
to machining stainless that I thought it was most likely.

[jim]

George Plimpton wrote:
>
> On 3/8/2013 11:23 AM, jim wrote:
> >
> >
> > George Plimpton wrote:
> >>
> >> On 3/8/2013 11:10 AM, jim wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Delvin Benet wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There is virtue in being *able*
> >>>> to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
> >>>> actually *doing* it.
> >>>
> >>> It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
> >>> that it is possible to become "able"
> >>> without ever actually "doing".
> >>

> >> As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written. You might be able to
> >> do something as a matter of prior training and practice, but that
< >> doesn't mean you should always undertake to do it in future.
> >
> >

> > Apparently you immediately concluded I
> > was making a reference to you.
>
> You simply ran your mouth and as usual said something stupid and pointless.

Pointless and stupid is all you understand.

Speaking of stupid....
It was pretty stupid for you to pretend you choose
not to fix a car or drill stainless for any reason
other than you simply have no idea how to do those
things.

[amdx]

> The last time I had to drill through work hardened stainless, I
> destroyed two small drills getting a start. So, I took a piece of
> hard steel drill rod, with a squared off end, dumped some carborundum
> abrasive compound into the hole, and intermittently ground my way
> through the hardened stainless. You can go through glass with that
> technique. I don't recommend doing this as it took forever and I had
> to grind flat and reharden the drill rod every time it got hot, but
> eventually, I had a hole.

>
>> I can't make a dent!
>> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>> What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>

> Ummm... this doesn't really belong in sci.electronics.repair.

He's attempting to REPAIR a hole the grew back.
Mikek :-)

[amdx]

Speaking about my wife.. I'm thinking about getting a new car for her.
Do you think it's a good trade?
Mikek

[amdx]

On the internet?

[jon_banquer]

You have it right, Jim.

George Plimpton, Delvin Benet (and the many other names he posts
under) has no clue how to machine anything. In addition, he has no
real world practical knowledge of metalworking.

[Vic Smith]

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:46:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:

>What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>
>From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.
>
>So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
>opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
>Nope!
>

>I can't make a dent!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
>What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?

I know you like that thing. So put it in the kitchen.
Hang this on the BBQ.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/5-church-key-can-and-bottle-opener/407C801.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=407C801&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CPLM05b_7bUCFY9AMgodQz4ALg
Don't mean to be a SS drilling party-pooper. but hey.

[Transition Zone]

On Mar 8, 10:50 am, "Denis G." <guillemd53...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Danny D." wrote:
>
> > > What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>
> > > From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.
>
> > > So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
> > > opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
> > > Nope!
>
> > > I can't make a dent!
> > >  http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
> > > What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>

> >    news:rec.crafts.metalworking would be a better place to ask. (Added)
>
>I'd grind a very small flat spot with a Dremel tool (to prevent the
> drill bit from skating) and anneal the end with a propane torch.

Maybe mapp gas with oxygen might be hot enough to punch a hole in
stainless steel.

[Transition Zone]

On Mar 8, 1:23 pm, Delvin Benet <D...@nbc.nýt> wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 10:15 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:
>
> > On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

> >> "Delvin Benet" <D...@nbc.nýt> wrote in message

Well look, Delvin. Suffice it to say that there's alt.humor and
rec.humor, if that'll help.

[George Plimpton]

Little jimmie does it everywhere.

[George Plimpton]

He has it wrong, little jonny banqueer. I choose not to do very much on
my car because I don't enjoy it, and because cars have gotten much more
complex than they once were, and because I don't have the expensive
specialized tools now required.

He and you get everything wrong, little jonny banqueer.

[George Plimpton]

On 3/8/2013 12:11 PM, jim wrote:
>
>
> George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>> On 3/8/2013 11:23 AM, jim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> George Plimpton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 3/8/2013 11:10 AM, jim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Delvin Benet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is virtue in being *able*
>>>>>> to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
>>>>>> actually *doing* it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
>>>>> that it is possible to become "able"
>>>>> without ever actually "doing".
>>>>
>>>> As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written. You might be able to
>>>> do something as a matter of prior training and practice, but that
> < >> doesn't mean you should always undertake to do it in future.
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently you immediately concluded I
>>> was making a reference to you.
>>
>> You simply ran your mouth and as usual said something stupid and pointless.
>
> Pointless and stupid is all

...you can do.


> Speaking of stupid....

We weren't actually speaking of you.

> It was pretty stupid for you to pretend you choose
> not to fix a car or drill stainless for any reason
> other than you simply have no idea how to do those
> things.

I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
and there are more valuable uses of my time.

You don't do anything of value because you can't do anything of value.

[jim]

George Plimpton wrote:

> I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
> my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
> and there are more valuable uses of my time.
>

It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe

that it is possible to be "able"

[jon_banquer]

It won't help. Suggest you review posts from George Plimpton / Delvin
Benet, etc so you can see that you're not dealing with someone who has
any metalworking skills or any real practical metalworking knowledge.

[George Plimpton]

You already said that, little jimmy, and I shot it down. I know you are
stuck, but see if you can try something new.

[jim]

George Plimpton wrote:
>
> On 3/8/2013 2:09 PM, jim wrote:
> >
> >
> > George Plimpton wrote:
> >
> >> I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
> >> my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
> >> and there are more valuable uses of my time.
> >>
> >
> > It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
> > that it is possible to be "able"
> > without ever actually "doing".
>
> You already said that

Yup.

[George Plimpton]

On 3/8/2013 2:32 PM, jim wrote:
>
>
> George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>> On 3/8/2013 2:09 PM, jim wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
>>>> my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
>>>> and there are more valuable uses of my time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
>>> that it is possible to be "able"
>>> without ever actually "doing".
>>

>> You already said that, little jimmy, and I shot it down.
>

> Yup.

Yup. You're just repeating your pointless and stupid garbage.
Pointless and stupid is all you can do, little jimmy.

[jon_banquer]

Consider that George Plimpton / Delvin Benet / whatever name he posts
under (most from Giganews) simply aren't worth anymore of your time,
Jim.

[George Plimpton]

On 3/8/2013 2:40 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
> On Mar 8, 2:32 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...@mwt.net> wrote:
>> George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/8/2013 2:09 PM, jim wrote:
>>
>>>> George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
>>>>> my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
>>>>> and there are more valuable uses of my time.
>>
>>>> It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
>>>> that it is possible to be "able"
>>>> without ever actually "doing".
>>

>>> You already said that, little jimmy, and I shot it down.
>>

>> Yup.
>
> Consider that

Consider that you, little jonny banqueer, are a fraud. You don't know
CAD/CAM software, you don't know machining, you don't know anything
useful. You're just an asshole with an arrest for domestic violence,
little jonny banqueer.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Sheesh... why didn't you mention that before?

More:

7. Wood handle. Find a suitable block of wood or wood pot handle.
Drill, route, bore, or auger a 1/2" hole down the center and a 1/4"
hole out the back end. Drop in a 1/4-20 nut. Slop some glue (RTV?)
over the 1/2" handle and slide the block of wood over the handle.
Screw an eye hook to the 1/4-20 nut.

8. Vinyl cap plug.
<http://www.echosupply.com/finishing-supplies-products.aspx?ID=37>
Drill 1/8" hole in tip of cap plug. Insert nylon cord through hole.
Add a washer for support. Tie a knot so that the cord doesn't slip.
Shove cap plug over 1/2" handle. Done.

9. Concrete mold. Make a wooden form for pouring concrete. Slide
1/2" handle through a hole in one end. Insert a plug that will
eventually be a hole for hanging. Add concrete. Let harden. Remove
plug.

10. Acrylic mold. Same above except using acrylic resin.

11. Shaft extender. Find a piece of steel (not aluminum or copper)
tubing with 1/2" ID. Cut to length. Pound over 1/2" handle. If you
can't get an interference fit, add glue.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 14:22:27 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***scam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Much like the heat shrink tubing someone
>with the initials C.Y. mentioned?

Ordinary thin wall heat shrink isn't really strong enough. What he
needs is the really thick stuff used for insulating electrical
connections and that has sticky goo on the inside, much like what
someone with initials J.L. mentioned.
<http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/EMDCI/Home/Products/Catalog/~/3M-Heat-Shrinkable-Thick-Wall-Cable-Sleeve-ITCSF-0800-BK-48A-MSHA-Black-8-10-AWG-4-ft-lengths-20-each-per-case?N=4294668725+5427538&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3AGS36G07Y9Fgs_QLF12KCC9C_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&rt=d>

However, if that's too much trouble, just use a hose clamp instead.
Form follows function.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:52:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:
> Hang this on the BBQ.

Interesting, they call it a "Church Key".

I have an old (way way way old) one, Ballantine stamped on it,
stored somewhere in the garage.

[Denis G.]

On Mar 8, 10:38 am, "Jim Wilkins" <muratla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Denis G." <guillemd53...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bc5768a5-40b2-48ee...@c6g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

> On Mar 8, 2:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Danny D." wrote:
>
> > > What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless
> > > steel?
>
> > > From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill
> > > bits.
>
> > > So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel
> > > can
> > > opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
> > > Nope!
>
> > > I can't make a dent!
> > >http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
> > > What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>
> > news:rec.crafts.metalworking would be a better place to ask. (Added)
>

> -I'd grind a very small flat spot with a Dremel tool (to prevent the
> -drill bit from skating) and anneal the end with a propane torch.  You
> -can remove any discoloration with polishing.
>
> Can openers are hard enough to keep their edge while puncturing steel
> cans, such as tomato juice comes in..http://www.metalsuppliersonline.com/propertypages/302.asp
> "Cold working will dramatically increase the hardness of this
> material,"
>
> I've seen tensile strength listed as high as 200,000 PSI for Type 302
> used for pallet strapping.
>
> You could hang the can opener by a Prusik loop of fancy boot lacing
> etc around the middle:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik
>
> This knot survives handling better than a square knot:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisherman's_knot
>
> If you use braided Nylon cord you can melt and fuse the ends of the
> loop and roll the warm joint flush so it nearly disappears.
> jsw

I'll see your nylon and raise you a pliable vinyl end cap.

[Uncle Steve]

On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 03:13:02PM -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.n?t> wrote in message
> news:97b4b$513a2c7e$414e828e$14...@EVERESTKC.NET...

> > On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >>> You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M.,
> >>> do
> >>> you?
> >

> > Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
> > r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment
> > in determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a
> > better use of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a
> > part, or to hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue
> > in being *able* to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
> > actually *doing* it.
>

> I can't speak for anyone else, but I will try a job once to learn how
> before I send it out. Then I can understand the fab shop when they
> suggest changes to ease production. That mattered when we were trying
> to push the state of the art in aircraft digital radios while staying
> with commercial process limitations.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_off-the-shelf
>
> Too often electronic designers know nothing of creating the package
> their brainchild must live in. Several times I've entered a project as
> the lowly lab tech and bootstrapped myself up to systems integrator
> after showing the engineers I could handle every aspect beyond their
> initial schematic design, freeing them from its drudgery.
> Proof-of-concept models I machined at home helped enormously.
>
> Then I have to switch from building to buying as much as possible
> because I'm swamped with designing and assembling all the circuit
> board and coordinating the interfaces between each engineer's part of
> the circuit.
>
> The difference as a hobbyist is that I allocate more time and less
> money so the balance shifts toward building. Plus each task I can
> learn to do on the car brings me closer to truly owning it, instead of
> it (and the dealer) owning me. My shop may have paid for itself by
> making special tools from scrap to let me do dealer jobs like $600
> timing belt replacements.
> jsw

The difference between the men and the boys is the boys can maybe
afford to run out and buy every shiny tool on the market, but the men
can make their own tools.

Recently I had to drill through a short length of tool steel. Needless
to say, titanium-nitride coated bits didn't even start the hole. I
found some advice on a web-site which suggested using a torch to
remove the temper in the area of the workpiece to be drilled, which
was not an option in my case since the item I was working with was
about 1" x 1/2" x 1/16". Plus I don't have a forge yet. Another
suggestion was to use a wooden dowel and some grit, which is going to
take a while.

I ended up hanging a jar of coins from the drill-press handle in
conjunction with the dowel method. Periodically you have to replenish
the grit under the dowel, but it went through in a few hours.
Stainless steel is softer than tool steel, so a carbide tile bit might
work instead.


Regards,

Uncle Steve

--
Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.
-- Friedrich Neitzsche

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> "Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote in message

> news:2631a$513a0d56$414e828e$15...@EVERESTKC.NET...
> >
> > I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
> > powerful laser to burn a hole through the fucker.
> >

> You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
> you?

He's another troll wanabe, like Ed.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Funny you mention your floor-sweeping past, as I also had
> >a summer job at a "plant" filled with metalworking machines
> >and Germans running them (real Germans, with heavy accents).
>
> I was born in Germany. Sorry, no accent left.
>
> >They 'drilled' .010" holes in jet turbine blades using a machine
> >they called the "EDM" machine. It never once broke a bit because
> >it drilled by automatic feed in a bath of kerosene dialectic
> >simply by shooting electric current through the bit which was
> >merely very close to the steel being 'drilled'.
>
> Today, they use a laser.
>
> >I think the EDM stood for Electro Dialectric Machining, and
> >the concepts were that the sparks "ate away" the metal.
>
> I think you might mean Electrical Discharge Mangling:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining>
>
> >Needless to say, I didn't bring one home with me...
>
> During my Cal Poly Pomona daze, part of the general engineering
> curriculum was to run the prospective engineer through every possible
> metal working machine available. If they had it, I tried (to destroy)
> it. My favorite was the submerged arc welder, where I successfully
> created a hot powdered metal and flux volcano. Another was a rather
> large spot welder, where I convinced a not very swift student to apply
> grease to his sheet metal parts before welding. The result was a
> small grease explosion, and a burn line across his shirt from elbow to
> elbow. My councilor decided that electronics would be a safer major
> for me.


Little did he know how dangerous you would be in that field. ;-)

[Ed Huntress]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:43:07 -0500, Uncle Steve <stev...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Here's a thought to keep in mind for the future. It's the way that
gunsmiths annealed spots on (case hardened) '03 Springfield receivers,
for drilling to mount a scope.

Cut the head off of a 12d nail, or use other appropriately sized
pieces of mild steel bar. Chuck the nail or bar in your drill press
and mount the work firmly in your vise.

Get the spindle turning at a medium speed, bring the nail down onto
the work, and press down firmly. You want to make a spot glow at least
dark cherry red from friction.

Take the nail out of the drill chuck and chuck your drill bit. Drill
as deep as you need, or as deep as you can. If necessary, remove the
bit, re-chuck the nail, and do the whole thing again. The annealing
doesn't run very deep.

I've used this method to drill flat springs, and it worked great for
me. It also leaves a minimum amount of distortion and a minimal
heat-affected zone.

--
Ed Huntress

[Gil]

Why did you cross-post this to can.politics??? This is the second time
- the first one was the Chevy Volt!



On 08/03/2013 11:11 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:

> On 3/8/2013 7:50 AM, Denis G. wrote:
>> On Mar 8, 2:30 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>> "Danny D." wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>>>
>>>> From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.
>>>
>>>> So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
>>>> opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>>>
>>>> Nope!
>>>
>>>> I can't make a dent!
>>>> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>>>
>>>> What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>>>
>>> news:rec.crafts.metalworking would be a better place to ask. (Added)
>>

>> I'd grind a very small flat spot with a Dremel tool (to prevent the

>> drill bit from skating) and anneal the end with a propane torch. You

>> can remove any discoloration with polishing.
>

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:27:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Form follows function.

This is an important point!

< begin embarrassing truth >

First, I tried shoe goop + leather strips. Disaster.
Luckily, the shoe goop cleaned off the stainless perfectly.

Then I tried rubber strips (made by cutting a 26"
length of bicycle tube strips about 1/2" wide.
Wouldn't stay on even though I used glue (it unwound
while the glue was setting.

Then, in frustration, I simply used electrical tape
and hanging wire! Butt ugly!

But, as Jeff said, form follows function ...
And, as Oren is fond of saying, "looks fine from far away!".

Here's a picture of the abomination!
(Drilling would have been prettier!).
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12369220/img/12369220.jpg

Notice the Ballantine Church Key from the 60s' next to it.
At least they had holes in the ends way back then.

I'll probably unwrap the electrical tape when I find
something better - but - for now - it should work
(but it's fuuuugly).

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:17:01 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Wood handle.

I like that idea best!

I can easily find a piece to fit, and it would
look nice too!

I'd have to varnish it (it's going to hang outdoors,
but then, I can at least DRILL the hole in the wood!).

That's the best idea of all!

[Delvin Benet]

On 3/8/2013 5:23 PM, Gil wrote:
>
> Why did you cross-post this to can.politics??? This is the second time
> - the first one was the Chevy Volt!

Because Karen Gordon asked me to do it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:49:02 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Little did he know how dangerous you would be in that field. ;-)

Ever notice my domain name? The Cal Poly motto is "Learn by Doing"
(Discere Faciendo). I didn't quite get the translation from Latin
correct and ended up with "Learn By Destroying". It was appropriate
Destruction and resurrection form a great learning experience. At the
time, I think I held the record for maximum damage in a single
semester. At graduation time, the faculty committee could not decide
if they should require that I hang around another year as punishment
for past indiscretions, or to summarily graduate me in order to get
rid of me.

Working in electronics was somewhat less destructive mostly because I
decided that actually thinking before I did something was a good idea.

[Uncle Steve]

Sounds reasonable. I'll test that out one day soon.

[pyotr filipivich]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> on Fri, 08 Mar 2013 18:43:03 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:49:02 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Little did he know how dangerous you would be in that field. ;-)
>
>Ever notice my domain name? The Cal Poly motto is "Learn by Doing"
>(Discere Faciendo). I didn't quite get the translation from Latin
>correct and ended up with "Learn By Destroying". It was appropriate
>Destruction and resurrection form a great learning experience. At the
>time, I think I held the record for maximum damage in a single
>semester. At graduation time, the faculty committee could not decide
>if they should require that I hang around another year as punishment
>for past indiscretions, or to summarily graduate me in order to get
>rid of me.

Graduated "Please Go Quietly" eh?

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

[Martin Eastburn]

What would be nice is a solid carbide drill.
With it you simply apply power and the drill starts
to cut. I have had mine red hot when it started to cut
when drilling lathe bits. Those made of cobalt and are tough.

I made a forming bit. Drill and grind.

I bought mine from MSCdirect.com -

Martin

[Jeff Liebermann]

>pyotr filipivich
>"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Yep. However, it was more complexicated than that. This was 1971.
The war in Vietnam was going full blast. I drew a low draft lottery
number, which meant that as soon as I lost my student deferment, I
would be drafted. If the college held me for another year, the draft
board indicated that they would NOT give me a student deferment.
However, if I graduated, I had other options, like working in a
military related industry. Given the opportunity, I'm certain that
the faculty committee would have wanted to arranged my execution.
Fortunately, the demand and backlog for admission to college, mostly
to avoid the draft, was sufficient that it didn't make any sense to
have me occupy a seat when there others that wanted it.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:49:02 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Little did he know how dangerous you would be in that field. ;-)
>
> Ever notice my domain name?

Yes, and I've visited the site. Did you notice the emoticon that
said I was joking with you?

> The Cal Poly motto is "Learn by Doing"
> (Discere Faciendo). I didn't quite get the translation from Latin
> correct and ended up with "Learn By Destroying". It was appropriate
> Destruction and resurrection form a great learning experience. At the
> time, I think I held the record for maximum damage in a single
> semester. At graduation time, the faculty committee could not decide
> if they should require that I hang around another year as punishment
> for past indiscretions, or to summarily graduate me in order to get
> rid of me.
>
> Working in electronics was somewhat less destructive mostly because I
> decided that actually thinking before I did something was a good idea.

At one job I had to take freshly minted techs and engineering
students to try to turn them into usable employees. One engineering
student started a fire by laying a hot soldering iron on a pile of paper
towels, then he stood there screaming "Run for your lives, we're all
gona die" He was standing in front of the fire extinguisher, so I
grabbed the pile of flaming towels and ran out the front door to let
them burn out in the parking lot. He had been shown where every
extinguisher was, and there were squeeze bottles full of window cleaner
that would have put it out. The last I heard of him was that he was
working for RCA designing TV tuners.. I was glad that I was out of the
TV repair business!

Another destroyed transistors by the handful buy putting them in
wrong, then laughing about it. The last I heard, he workes at WPAFB in
one of the labs. He was at R.L. Drake, till they got out of the ham
radio business.


They were the cream of the crop. :(

[Jim Wilkins]

"Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote in message

boards and coordinating the interfaces between each engineer's part of

[Baron]

Jeff Liebermann Inscribed thus:

> On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:28:36 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> <da...@pleasedontemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 19:08:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>>> see if it's magnetic. If it's been work hardened, it will be
>>> slightly magnetic. If not, it will be non-magnetic. If it's very
>>> magnetic, it will be 400 series stainless (contains no nickel).
>
>>Interesting diagnostics. The flat part (where I don't want to
>>attach a cord) is slightly magnetic. The cylindrical handle
>>(where I do want to drill) is not magnetic at all.
>> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/12366090/img/12366090.jpg
>
> Both parts are the same material, probably something in the 300
> series. The flat part has been stamped or punched, which work hardens
> the part, and produces the slight magnetic effect. Nothing pounded on
> the handle, so it's not magnetic.
>
>>I had not realized how hard stainless steel is!
>
> Hardly and that's NOT your problem. Trying to drill a rounded surface
> directly is going to cause a very different problem. Visualize what a
> cross section of the contact area at the round stainless handle and
> drill interface. The only point of contact is at the very tiny tip of
> the drill, where there's no cutting edge. You can spin that all day
> long and never get the drill bit to cut any metal.
>
> Take a bench grinder and put a flat area where you want to drill.
> Grind or punch a starter hole. That will give the drill bit cutting
> edge something to bite into. After that, you should be all right.
>
> Incidentally, you haven't suffered until you've tried to machine
> titanium.
>

Now now... He definitely doesn't want to do that :-(

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:m7fkj8pji0b04hp4g...@4ax.com...
>
> It may be that his only problem is with the initial state of the
> stainless,

He did assume that titanium coating implied quality.

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/8/2013 12:51 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 10:28 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> On 3/8/2013 12:23 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:

>>> On 3/8/2013 10:15 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>> "Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote in message

>>>>> news:2631a$513a0d56$414e828e$15...@EVERESTKC.NET...

>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
>>>>>> powerful laser to burn a hole through the fucker.
>>>>>>

>>>>> You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
>>>>> you?
>>>>

>>>> I was just making a joke. You take things too seriously.

>>>
>>> Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
>>> r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment in
>>> determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a better use
>>> of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a part, or to
>>> hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue in being *able*
>>> to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in actually *doing*
>>> it.
>>>

>>> Back around 1977 or so, I had a colleague who constantly prattled on
>>> about the virtue of working on one's car. He not only considered it a
>>> virtue to do so, he considered it a moral failing in those who didn't.
>>> In that era, business attire - suits - was still standard. One time
>>> when this goof was nattering on about fixing one's own car and
>>> expressing his disdain for those who didn't, I said, "Well, you could
>>> always buy a couple of gallon cans of dry cleaning fluid and dryclean
>>> your own suits, too. Do you?" He just gave me a dirty look and turned
>>> away.
>>
>> I suppose you would criticize a cowboy who tried to repair his horse? ^_^
>
> LOL! Maybe not if he was a veterinarian.
>
> Cowboy...reminds me of a couple of good jokes.
>
> An old cowboy sat down at the bar and ordered a drink. As he sat sipping
> his drink, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the cowboy
> and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?" He replied, "Well, I've spent my
> whole life breaking colts, working cows, going to rodeos, fixing fences,
> pulling calves, baling hay, doctoring calves, cleaning my barn, fixing
> flats, working on tractors, and feeding my dogs, so I guess I am a cowboy."
>
> She said, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. As
> soon as I get up in the morning, I think about women. When I shower, I
> think about women. When I watch TV, I think about women. I even think
> about women when I eat. It seems that everything makes me think of women."
>
> The two sat sipping in silence.
>
> A little while later, a man sat down on the other side of the old cowboy
> and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"
>
> He replied, "I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."
>

There is even a YouTube about it. ^_^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vm2jPM4ee8

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

On 3/7/2013 3:46 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?
>
> From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.
>
> So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
> opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).
>
> Nope!
>
> I can't make a dent!
> http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12362068/img/12362068.jpg
>
> What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?
>

I had a thought that if you're wanting to attach a chain to it and it
has a hollow handle, you could use an expanding concrete anchor and
a bolt with Loctite 262 to keep the bolt/screw from coming out. ^_^

TDD

[Ed Huntress]

That's become a common misunderstanding.

Good marketing. Bad engineering.

--
Ed Huntress