Source for belts?

[DaveC]

for refurbishing a tape deck, I need some belts. I googled a few places but
nothing very inspiring (not a great selection).


Anybody have a source they like and use?

(If you’re just going to Google, don’t bother, I’ve already done
that…)

Thanks!

[Ken Layton]

> that...)
>
> Thanks!

Russell Industries bought out the old Projector-Recorder Belt Corp several years ago and still carries the "PRB Line":

http://www.russellind.com/prbline/index.html

They should have your belts. Just give them a call.

[N_Cook]

But do they say whether they are new belts or old stock (so half
perished already)?
The total absence of any supplier stating they had new belts made me
move over to cutting my own belts , flat and square , from silicone
rubber kitchen products, no returns yet from broken examples.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

Though I think overpriced like everything else, I had a good encounter with Adamsradio. adamsradio.com IIRC.

I did look around and it seems that all the belts we paid fifty cents from back in the day are now five bucks. AND MORE ! The flat belt for that capstan will be more than five bucks. Maybe twenty. (actually that belt affects the wow and flutter spec of the deck and should be as right as possible)

But I can attest to the quality. I would use them again, unless someone really really killed them on price, and mean alot less than half. It is more important to have quality belts when you are spending time to take the thing apart and change them.

In the old days we just bought belts in bulk. For VCRs n shit. Today, things are different.

There are other PRB line dealers out there and they are your best best bet. I just mentioned one. Price a bit high but a fast ship and everything was up to snuff, all I got to say. Other than that, I don't even remember where this outfit is.

I am not sure if MCM and all them still carry PRB line stuff. Seems like really few places carry anything like that these days.

[Chuck]

A heads up about PRB belts. Back in the 90s some of their belts would
double the wow and flutter of the mechanism. Had better luck with MCM
belts.

---
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[pf...@aol.com]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 12:14:46 AM UTC-5, DaveC wrote:
> for refurbishing a tape deck, I need some belts. I googled a few places but
> nothing very inspiring (not a great selection).

I have had excellent luck making belts myself from fresh O-ring stock. Or, from O-ring suppliers. Where a 'weld' does not matter, from stock. Where it does, from a supplier. They come in about every size (circumference) and diameter from a millimeter or two to 20+mm in circumference, and diameters from 10mm to over a meter. And in enough materials to cover about any need.

One of many, many: http://www.oringsusa.com/

My local plumbing supply house has not let me down yet as far as that is concerned. Not also that O-rings often do a fine job even where flat belts may be OEM. If there is any sort of lip on the wheels, there is rarely a problem. Note that diameter does not matter where belts are concerned as long as the tension is sufficient for traction. The pulley sizes are all that matters. And new materials often have a much higher tension strength than OEM belts typically of neoprene or even basic buna rubber. So, thinner O-rings may be used ILO flat belts if clearances are critical. And, as we all know, buna-rubber is not good around electrical stuff...

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Cydrome Leader]

I've always wondered about the freshness factor of their stuff these days.
They must be selling dozens of belts a month these days.

[N_Cook]

The problem is balustre/bulbous pulleys which must have flat belts.
If its possible to cant over the motor and pulley, it is possible to cut
belts from smooth flat rubber sheet and offset the set by the degree of
cant to the pulley axis.
I often use Orings for pulley tyres, often using 3,2 to take up the
width and one centred on those 2 to make the depth to bridge the gap to
capstan drum or whatever.

[N_Cook]

If I ran a company supplying rubber drive belts, I'd make great play in
my blurb, that they are new cut/moulded stock.
As none of the companies I've found selling belts for legacy equipment
say this, I assume they only have old stock , next to useless stock.

[Cydrome Leader]

Nothing quite like an old plastic bag with the stained imprint of the
rubber part.

Any idea how they correctly make say a VCR idler tire? Molded one at a
time? cut from a tube? I've always wondered.

[pedro]

On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:14:41 -0800, DaveC <n...@home.cow> wrote:

>for refurbishing a tape deck, I need some belts. I googled a few places but
>nothing very inspiring (not a great selection).
>
>
>Anybody have a source they like and use?

Not much help to you, but here in downunder-land we have a parts
supplier who has pretty decent range

https://www.wes.com.au/mediapub/ebook/wescat2014np/#1220

[F Murtz]

In Australia,
http://prime-electronics.com.au/

[pf...@aol.com]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:38:30 PM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote:

> The problem is balustre/bulbous pulleys which must have flat belts.
> If its possible to cant over the motor and pulley, it is possible to cut
> belts from smooth flat rubber sheet and offset the set by the degree of
> cant to the pulley axis.
> I often use Orings for pulley tyres, often using 3,2 to take up the
> width and one centred on those 2 to make the depth to bridge the gap to
> capstan drum or whatever.

http://www.allsealsinc.com/contoured-backup-rings.jpg

https://www.parker.com/literature/ORD%205700%20Parker_O-Ring_Handbook.pdf

Look up "back-up" rings - they will be flat on the OD, and concave on the ID (and may also be turned inside-out). And pretty much ideal for shaped pulleys, whether concave or convex. Some care will need to be exercised on choosing the material, however, as these beasts range from spongy-soft to PTFE (quite hard). Nitrile is probably the best option for small electronics applications. Again, the range of sizes available is quite astounding.

[N_Cook]

There will always be sources of O-rings because they are used in all
sorts of areas. Anyone know of other uses for the very thin flat drive
bands <>0.5mm thick, other than old tape recorders and projectors?
Vacuum cleaner bands are for power transfer and always too thick ,even
sliced in half , retaining one fair face to go against the drive pulley.
Some old style photocopiers used to use thin <>0.5mm and <>20mm wide
rubber bands for paper conveyance, easily sliced down in width, but I
only ever saw one size of perimeter

[pf...@aol.com]

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 9:43:00 AM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote:

> There will always be sources of O-rings because they are used in all
> sorts of areas. Anyone know of other uses for the very thin flat drive
> bands <>0.5mm thick, other than old tape recorders and projectors?
> Vacuum cleaner bands are for power transfer and always too thick ,even
> sliced in half , retaining one fair face to go against the drive pulley.
> Some old style photocopiers used to use thin <>0.5mm and <>20mm wide
> rubber bands for paper conveyance, easily sliced down in width, but I
> only ever saw one size of perimeter

There are dozens of sources for miniature drive belts, ribbed, notched and flat. There are many hobby applications (I use them for drive belts on a miniature R/C submarine I am building (a 5-year project)). But consider robotics and any of several other applications, hobby and commercial.

http://sdp-si.com/products/miniature-belts-and-pulleys-inch.htm

http://www.bostongear.com/pdf/upload/lit/P-1482-BG_pg117-131.pdf

http://www.globalspec.com/industrial-directory/miniature_drive_belt

Are only a very few.

I find it interesting that those who are "in the trade" tend to think within the trade and not outside it. A lesson I learned from a former colleague that struck home came to me as follows:

Butch (his nickname, Bruce his given name) drove a Harley, kept a full-blood wolf as a pet (he was a registered, trained, wild-animal rescue professional) and drove our company truck for a living, and was a NASCAR fan - but, possibly the most gentle person I have ever met despite all visible indicators to the contrary. He would order his drive belts from Grainger at 1/4 the cost of the same Gates belt from HD, and this before the "net". He taught me that single-source parts really were not - that nobody made every part and piece of everything they sold, and that well over 50% of the time, the OEM source is out there, and ready, willing, and able to sell the *exact* part at a much more reasonable price.

Stuff is out there. It may not say Revox, Panasonic, Sony, TEAC or whatever on it, but it is certainly out there. Take 10 minutes to look and be pleasantly surprised.

[N_Cook]

On 01/03/2016 13:37, pf...@aol.com wrote:

I read some interesting bits in that Parker pdf.

I wonder how you lathe-cut rubber drive belts?
Mention of fungus, is that the reason that old belts "melt" into that
intractable black gooey mess? and once one belt in some kit goes that
way all the other rubber bits in the way of belts & tyres go the same
way in rapid succession.
I thought there might be mention of Richard Feynman and his
unsurpassable NASA press-conference cutting-thru-the-crap demo with a
hardware-shop O-ring and a glass of iced water as they brought up rocket
propellants and O-rings, but no.

[DaveC]

When sizing a belt:

for example, an old flat, wide (10 mm?) capstan belt measures 9 inches on the
“belt measurer-thing”, how much do you subtract when shopping for a
replacement size?

And for the 3-inch tape-counter belt (round cross-section, “o-ring”)?

Thanks.

[Cydrome Leader]

pf...@aol.com <pf...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 9:43:00 AM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote:
>
>> There will always be sources of O-rings because they are used in all
>> sorts of areas. Anyone know of other uses for the very thin flat drive
>> bands <>0.5mm thick, other than old tape recorders and projectors?
>> Vacuum cleaner bands are for power transfer and always too thick ,even
>> sliced in half , retaining one fair face to go against the drive pulley.
>> Some old style photocopiers used to use thin <>0.5mm and <>20mm wide
>> rubber bands for paper conveyance, easily sliced down in width, but I
>> only ever saw one size of perimeter
>
> There are dozens of sources for miniature drive belts, ribbed, notched and flat. There are many hobby applications (I use them for drive belts on a miniature R/C submarine I am building (a 5-year project)). But consider robotics and any of several other applications, hobby and commercial.
>
> http://sdp-si.com/products/miniature-belts-and-pulleys-inch.htm
>
> http://www.bostongear.com/pdf/upload/lit/P-1482-BG_pg117-131.pdf
>
> http://www.globalspec.com/industrial-directory/miniature_drive_belt
>
> Are only a very few.
>
> I find it interesting that those who are "in the trade" tend to think within the trade and not outside it. A lesson I learned from a former colleague that struck home came to me as follows:

none of the linked items are what you'll find in a a tape deck, vcr or
slide projector. sorry, but they don't run off industrial timing belts. No
pinch rollers there either, or tires (VCR idler for example).

[pf...@aol.com]

Tires are easy. Remove old idler, machine small groove in OD. Fit with O-ring of correct diameter & circumference. Replace idler. Done. Usually no need to glue, either. Flat idler get flat rings if necessary, or soft hemispherical rings. Note that perfect roundness is also achieved by this process.

Repeat: belts need only fit reliably. They do not affect rpm. They do not have to be a exact match. A nitrile toothed belt inside out will do fine.

Graf, Breco, Parker (Euro, UK, US) all make 0.5mm belts in many materials, smooth, ribbed, toothed, fiber-reinforced, or not. Let your fingers do the walking. McMaster-Carr is a stocking distributor for many makers, and sell both flat stock and ready made belts of many types. The world is a big place, and much of it is at your fingertips.

[pf...@aol.com]

a) Rubber/rubber like belts shrink in diameter, but increase in circumference/thickness. So belt tension tends to increase as this is a double-whammy in practice. But, a brand new belt will have some initial give. The rule-of-thumb is deduct no less than 5%, no more than 10% from the diameter of the old belt. The longer the belt, the higher the deduct.

b) Belts are cheap, mostly less than 1 US$ each. Bracket the size if in doubt.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Butch (his nickname, Bruce his given name) drove a Harley, kept a >full-blood wolf... "

If you can manage to domesticate them, wolves are extremely intelligent. Half wolf and half German sheperd works really well.

It is illegal to keep wolves in some parts, not sure why. They are no more vicious than any wild dog would be if out in the wild all its life.

[Dave Platt]

>When sizing a belt:
>
>for example, an old flat, wide (10 mm?) capstan belt measures 9 inches on the
>“belt measurer-thing”, how much do you subtract when shopping for a
>replacement size?

The belt-sellers I've dealt with seem to suggest that you subtract 10%
of the old belt's size, to allow for stretching.

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 7:56:42 AM UTC-8, N_Cook wrote:

> I wonder how you lathe-cut rubber drive belts?

In a science-lab with a machine shop, you fit it to a mandrel, and
dip it in liquid nitrogen, first.

[Cydrome Leader]

pf...@aol.com <pf...@aol.com> wrote:
> Tires are easy. Remove old idler, machine small groove in OD. Fit with O-ring of correct diameter & circumference. Replace idler. Done. Usually no need to glue, either. Flat idler get flat rings if necessary, or soft hemispherical rings. Note that perfect roundness is also achieved by this process.

I call BS on this.

Let me know the easy steps to replace the rubber on this part with an
O-ring from the hardware store.

http://www.smcelectronics.com/VCRIW12.JPG. Pretty common part back in the
day.

I find it unlikely anything MCM has in stock hasn't already turned brown
next to the rubber.

> Repeat: belts need only fit reliably. They do not affect rpm. They do not have to be a exact match. A nitrile toothed belt inside out will do fine.
>
> Graf, Breco, Parker (Euro, UK, US) all make 0.5mm belts in many materials, smooth, ribbed, toothed, fiber-reinforced, or not. Let your fingers do the walking. McMaster-Carr is a stocking distributor for many makers, and sell both flat stock and ready made belts of many types. The world is a big place, and much of it is at your fingertips.

If you have the parker EZ reference wall poster cross reference for VCR or
turntable belts be sure to share.

Even VCR makers started to drop all the belts towards the end. You started
to see lots of gears instead.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 6:13:48 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> pf...@aol.com <pf...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Tires are easy. Remove old idler, machine small groove in OD. Fit with O-ring of correct diameter & circumference. Replace idler. Done. Usually no need to glue, either. Flat idler get flat rings if necessary, or soft hemispherical rings. Note that perfect roundness is also achieved by this process.
>
> I call BS on this.
>
> Let me know the easy steps to replace the rubber on this part with an
> O-ring from the hardware store.
>
> http://www.smcelectronics.com/VCRIW12.JPG. Pretty common part back in the
> day.

YIKES!!

That one is easy. Remove the rubber altogether and replace it. If the OEM rubber is very old, it should crumble off pretty easily. Otherwise, removal with a solvent that does not attack the white plastic should be a pretty basic technique - acetone comes to mind not knowing exactly what that white plastic might be, but likely nylon or delrin.

Then, replace it with a flat O-ring out of a catalog, McMaster-Carr and/or any of a dozen other sources. Don't forget to re-lubricate the bearing...

http://mykin.com/orings.html/?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=Cj0KEQiA3t-2BRCKivi-suDY24gBEiQAX1wiXL6bP7URTGduRmp-bkRG0P7Jbk0aSWqRfp7tdP2oR4EaAi8q8P8HAQ That being just one. You will have your choice of materials, some of them with far more longevity than the OEM part.

My lathe technique is pointed towards the Oilite Bearing type idlers very common back in the day - such as on very vintage Dual turntables and more. These tend to be quite thin, so a bit of machining will usually allow a solid new edge for the applied O-ring "spare tire".

My hobby activities include electronics back as far as 1919, and as recent as the 1990s (but few of those). I tend to avoid vintage moving parts as there are so many things that go wrong after 80 or more years - pot-metal decay, rust, and such - that cannot be fixed. But I have never failed to fix something worthwhile albeit over some considerable time in some cases. Right now, a bit back in the queue is an Edison Home 2-minute machine that needs the drive spring redone. I have a source for a new spring, but I will first try to salvage the existing spring if possible. If the break is at the 'hook' as is typical, I will anneal the end, cut and bend a new hook, then re-harden the end - and cross my fingers.

Look for solutions, not impediments.

[Gareth Magennis]

"N_Cook" wrote in message news:nb103f$s5i$1...@dont-email.me...

Can you remind us what these products are?

I remember some conical shaped thing, and I think this is actually quite a
good idea.



Cheers,

Gareth.

[N_Cook]

The main one is collapsible silicone funnels, ridiculous idea I know so
I grapped 12 or so before the importers would come to their senses, 6
black and 6 dull red unlike the usual "neon" kitchen silicone .
You also need some razor blades set up in a holder to split the
thickness and some mandrels to stretch over, to then cut around in a
sort of lathe fashion, then making finishing cuts by eye and hand ,
because the rubber always moves a bit in the cutting process, so end of
cut will never exactly meet the start.
Luckily I've never come across a situation where you need a fair face on
both sides of a band, even then perhaps a 180 deg axial twist in such a
band, and back on the other side, could work there.
For walkman size bands, I set up a sort of grinding machine with
"Dremmel" and "diamond" disc to "grind" back imperfections of such cut
bands.

[Tim R]

On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 8:24:40 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:
> > Let me know the easy steps to replace the rubber on this part with an
> > O-ring from the hardware store.
> >
>

> Then, replace it with a flat O-ring out of a catalog, McMaster-Carr and/or any of a dozen other sources. Don't forget to re-lubricate the bearing...
>

This is an extreme nitpick but maybe somebody would like to know.

To the general population an O-ring is any washer or gasket with a round cross section. I'm not so sure anybody thinks a flat gasket is actually an O-ring, but most people think any round one is.

Not so. Mechanical engineers have a technical definition of the O-ring, and it is not shape but function.

See here:
http://www.row-inc.com/sizes.html

If the gasket of circular cross section is sized so that it can rotate inside that groove, then and only then is it an O-ring.

Okay, nobody cares. But now you know.

(just try confusing a magazine and a clip on a firearms forum, and you'll see what abuse you get)

[pf...@aol.com]

All true. But, and however, go into an industrial supply house and ask for a gasket... you will likely get something hard and made of a fibrous material, but also flat.

Ask for a flat O-ring, and you are far more likely to get what you want. Search in McMaster Carr - get roughly the same results.

Further to this, and in the specific application given, a true O-ring of the correct diameter would serve just as well as a flat "gasket".

[Look165]

Farnell !


DaveC a écrit :

> for refurbishing a tape deck, I need some belts. I googled a few places but
> nothing very inspiring (not a great selection).
>
>
> Anybody have a source they like and use?
>
> (If you’re just going to Google, don’t bother, I’ve already done

> that…)
>
> Thanks!
>

[Tim R]

I am not a net nazi and I will not correct anybody. But if I use the word O-ring, it probably means the mechanical engineering definition. Your points are well taken.

[N_Cook]

For anyone in the UK, go to Aldi , before easter.
3GB , so for less than the price of one flat belt from Farnell, plus VAT
etc. Better than those funnels for cutting up into bands.

"exploded view" chocolate easter egg moulds. As close to ideal as
possible for supplying flat drive belts as concentric flat rings
complete range from 10mm diameter to 87mm diameter. When split would
give 50 bands 1.5mm thick, from 1 to 5mm wide, as they are then 5mm
wide. Plus 12 thin cylinders that may well stretch to cover failed
cassette tape pinch rollers.
To go to .5mm thick , I'll try stretching over various cylinders as
mandrels plus washers. Cut all the putative bands off the sheet, by
cutting through the main plane of the sheet mould so they will evenly
lay-up against each other on the mandrel with washer spacers and apply
some pressure to keep the rubber from squirming when cutting and set a
razor blade in the toolpost and razor through , turning the lathe chuck
by hand.
Then if non-parallel faces , then "grind" down with "diamond" disc in
dremmel ablating back to widest sections. With all such bands then at
least one fair face for going against balluster drive pinions.

++++++++++
Crap commercialism, google cached only it would seem
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tJVmebmtr6sJ:https://www.aldi.co.uk/p/68604/0%2Beaster+chocolate+moulds+site:aldi.co.uk&hl=en-GB&gbv=1&um=1&tab=iw&&ct=clnk
not for viewing directly from Aldi site,by any potential customers
"3D Chocolate Egg Mould
Product Ref: 068604020813200
£ 2.99 Make and decorate your own homemade Easter eggs for friends
and family.
They'll love making delicious chocolate treats with this egg mould -
plus it's a great way to get the creative juices flowing.

Design: 3D Egg
Dimensions: 30.5 x 30.5 x 1.5cm
Material: LFGB Silicone Mould
Product Type: Chocolate Moulds

"
supposed URL of
https://www.aldi.co.uk/p/68604/0#
so no pic available to my browser anyway.
If anyone else finds a valid URL, please post here

[N_Cook]

China has the right idea, pics available from the primary source
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3D-Easter-Egg-Chocolate-Silicone-mold_1992750941.html
something to do tomorrow, generate a lifetime supply of flat belts
hopefully.

[pf...@aol.com]

On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 1:30:56 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:

> China has the right idea, pics available from the primary source
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3D-Easter-Egg-Chocolate-Silicone-mold_1992750941.html
> something to do tomorrow, generate a lifetime supply of flat belts
> hopefully.

This is SO much *WORK* when, with only minimal searching from any number of active and current sources selling belts of recent manufacture one can find about any belt in about any dimension one needs. Really! Typical cost: Less than US$0.50 per belt.

[N_Cook]

About 3 hours to render down one sheet to all these bands, not all
sliced down as can do to required thickness when required. Went out and
bought another sheet , as a seasonal product, and the idea worked so well.
http://diverse.4mg.com/silicone_bands_easter.jpg
The blow hole plug plus cylinders shown , with one stretched over a
pinch wheel.
As long as the increased diameter does not rub on the carrier, AFAIR
always enough clearance. So those plus standard O Orings , one or 3
layed in periphery for pulley tyres(flat edges are not required for
tyres in tape decks), completes the universal rubber tool kit.
Plus remnants in pic. minimum I've "bean sliced" down to without
breaking is about 0.3mm thick.

[N_Cook]

half price Aldi , remaindered after easter now

[Colin Horsley]

On 29/02/2016 16:14, DaveC wrote:

for refurbishing a tape deck, I need some belts. I googled a few places but 
nothing very inspiring (not a great selection).


Anybody have a source they like and use?

(If you’re just going to Google, don’t bother, I’ve already done 
that…)

Thanks!

Try here:-

https://www.wes.com.au/mediapub/ebook/wescat2014np/#1220

Colin

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