Verizon Telephone Ringer ISSUE (land line)

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

Hi,

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when
someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore
removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time
to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use
from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due
other devices loading.

At main input jack, everything disconnected (no loads), ringing voltage
was 93 VAC.

I am retired electronic technician. I used my Fluke DMM with "Max/Min"
capture feature to log the ringing voltages. Twice, I was able to "capture"
the NO RINGING voltages, 34.4VAC and 38VAC.

TEMP SOLUTION:

Since my answer machine is on all the time, and answers on the
4th ring, I told my relatives & friends to hang up if phone rings 5 or more
times. Then call again. The odd thing (good thing), when they call back,
the phone(s) ring!! So far, every time.

Did anyone else have this issue?

Thank You in advance, John

[peterw...@gmail.com]

On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

> Did anyone else have this issue?

Had the same issue - poor connections in the Telco Demark. The 'first' attempt apparently helped the connections such that it rang through if the call-back was relatively immediate.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
number):

I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.

When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
much lower than the normal ring signal.

Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
cause this problem?

I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
Verizon. I will post an update later.

[abrsvc]

I would not be surprised to find out that the problem is external to the house. The copper line system is aging and receives minimal maintenance these days. I too had intermittent issues with my landline prior to getting FIOS. While not as regular as you, the problem ended up being a connection on the street a few blocks away. Similar problems prior were traced to the local "switching" station a few towns over.

Dan

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 1/11/20 6:13 AM, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:
> Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL
> filters might cause this problem?

<http://www.benjammin.net/www/pages/techtips/dsl-filter.html>


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

[Ron D.]

I'll give you some ideas. When/if the telco guy comes out have him fit a DSL filter in the NID. Have everything else ready and be prepared to help. I should be able to supply CAT5 from the NID to the inside of the house,

You have "two lines" at this point. Filtered and unfiltered or split.

With the filters/spliters removed and the modem OFF, you have a normal telephone line. If you turn on the modem (no filters) and pickup an extension, you;ll hear HF noise.

I think it's an important concept.

Hum, it's likely the "protector. In the NID or the old carbon one.

Spiders, wet and poor connections.

Pull the DMARC and look at the resistance into the house. It needs to be high

If it;s not high (like 1M or greater), It's probably a jack and not a phone. Inspect any low lying jacks for spider webs especially ones that can get wet.

he will measure the resistance of the phones in the house and will easily say it;s your problem. Finding it - use your best guess.

Cob webs on the pole is possible too. The ring voltage tends to break through the oxides.

DSL upgrade. Have a splitter installed by the telco. use the highest pair (Pair 4) (8 cond)for DSL. Being all 8 into a parallel punch down block (assuming no alarm RJ31x). Break out to telco and DSL.

Punch down telo and punch down to a RJ11 jack to DSL.

You can buy a CAT 5 straight RJ11-RJ11 to your DSL modem. The modem doesn;t care if the polarity is reversed.

I have a mix of quad cable, no-home run and about 12 phones. No issues. The quad non-home-run was installed by the phone company.

The final plan is aN rj45 phone patch where everything is parallel (a RED PANEl)

[Ron D.]

at roughly the same place. All future telco connections will be RJ45's with inserts that will be RJ11's.

The patch panel has to use straight thru cables, I could patch with RH11's or RJ45'swith inserts.

Re-iterating all wall outlets will be RJ45 with or without RJ1l inserts CAT6.
telco patch will be RJ45 jacks. RJ11 inserts a possibility,

Now, I have an easy way of troubleshooting all of those parallel connections,

Surface mount RJ11's or 4-prong jacks close to the floor in a damp locations high probability. Spider webs the likely cause.

I;m planning quad to cat 5 connections too.

==

Your NID may have a 1/2 ringer. Understanding how the NID works helps.

[Ron D.]

I have an intermittent problem with telephone(s) NOT RINGING when
someone tries to call. Most of the time, the telephone will ring. Therefore
removing all devices from telephone line, then connect one device at a time
to find "culprit", is not practical. Note: I removed 3 devices I seldom use
from phone line. Ringing voltage increased to 81.VAC (3 devices removed) due
other devices loading.

==


It's not likely a device, but wiring, particularly in a jack.

Resistance, toward the house in a disconnected NID is where you start, Use the binary search technique where you remove half of the phones, Go out to the demark. Measure. If a high resistance is not present add half of them back.
If you had 1000 phones, it would take like 10 tries. Look up "binary search".

[Ron D.]

For 12 phones make it 8 (A) and 4 (B)
problem exist when set A is connected, 1/2 it
(4)-c and 4(d)
is it c or d?
lets say D
break D down to E(2) and F(2)
Is it in F?
Break down F into G(1) and H(1)

BINGO!

It's easier to make the initial 1/2 a power of 2.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

>Hi, Here is more information (I use my Tracphone to call my landline
>number):
>
> I scoped the phone line. When there was no problem (phone rings), I saw a
>nice 20 hz sign wave on the display.
>
> When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded sawtooth.
>One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
>much lower than the normal ring signal.
>
> Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters might
>cause this problem?
>
> I am going to disconnect everything in the house at main phone jack,
>plug in a single spare telephone. If that doesn't ring, then I will contact
>Verizon. I will post an update later.
>

UPDATE:

This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.

I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

John

[Dave Platt]

In article <343m1fdifutpe3ni0...@4ax.com>,

<jaugu...@verizon.net> wrote:

> This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
>result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.
>
> I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
>in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
>my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
>while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
>Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.

That's one of the best diagnostic techniques for a lot of phone problems.

I've found that the following sort of phrasing works wonderfully well:
"The problem exists at the demarc, with all premises wiring
disconnected from the demarc, and can be demonstrated using either of
two different telephones plugged directly into the demarc jack."

That tells the telco customer-service rep (and the tech that they
eventually send out) two things: the problem is in _their_ equipment
(not yours), and you know enough about the situation that they can't
scam you into agreeing to pay for a service call for your inside wiring.

[Michael Terrell]

Telco hires trained monkeys to take service calls. I had one insist that it had to be my inside wiring. That was one foot of new station wire to a new jack on the other side of the wall. They finally sent two techs out who determined that the 50 year old underground trunkline was bad and switched me to another bad copper pair. Centurylink isn't replacing bad underground trunk, they are waiting to replace it all with Fiber, one of these decades. I lost service during Hurricane Irma. A pedestal at the end of my street was pulled out of the ground by a damaged power pole. The pole was replaced, but not the pedestal. They insist that my service was restored, and claim that I owe a lot of money for a line that never worked, again. I tried to close the account at 90 days, but they would only do it if I called from the number I wanted terminated. I asked, "How do I do that on a dead line?" They shrugged and tried to sell me a cell phone.

Nothing but poorly trained monkeys. A lot of businesses in the area had to go to VOIP to have usable phone service. Thankfully, the downtown area has 1Gb fiber internet at a good price.

[Chuck]

Had the same problem with AT&T. After dicking me around for 10 years,
a tech told me there was water in a quarter mile long underground
cable and they weren't going to replace it.

[Ron D.]

You need to make sure that the connecting cable is also different.

Also be aware that the telco repair person might not be knowledgeable either.

I asked the repair person that came out for a service call should the cord from the jack to the wall be straight or crossed. He said he taught technicians and the cord should be straight-thru which is the wrong answer.

Only patch cables should be straight-thru.

Most modern phones don;t care if the wires are crossed or straight and, it appears, that neither do the phone technicians. Old bell touch tone phones must have the polarity to work for the keypad to work.

The "protector" and the interface (jack and 1/2 ringer) can also be a source of potential problems. There also might be two protectors. One in the NID and one inside from old wiring.

The 1/2 ringer can sometimes be removed when you have DSL.

Wet spider webs have been the big issues for me as well as connections from the CO. One guy came back and said I just removed 1000 feet from your service, Another guy came back with a foot of spliced cable where the insulation was removed in places and said this was your problem.

The telco guy typically deals with the naked pairs and removes the NID from being the problem.

[et...@whidbey.com]

True Story.
Back in the 80s I lived in a Redmond WA neighborhood that had all
sorts of water problems. I had to deal with tons of water flowing
across my property from uphill houses. My phone started getting all
sorts of static on it but I wasn't surprised because we had GTE and
they seemed to be light on servicing their equipment. We had a phone
box in our front yard. One of those small boxes that sits atop a pipe.
The box was probably 14 inches long by 4 inches wide by about the same
deep. Anyway, I went outside for some reason and water is squirting
out of the box seams! It was hilarious. Static problem found. So I
went inside and called GTE to tell them about it. The woman I spoke to
told me that water was not used in phone systems. I insisted that I
knew that and that's why I called. Water was not supposed to be
squirting out of their phone box. I finally convinced her to send out
someone and she told me that I was going to be charged a service fee
if I was wrong about water coming out of their box. When the service
guy arrived and saw the box he was shocked and then laughed out loud.
Needless to say there was no charge on my phone bill.
Eric

[Jon Elson]

On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 07:13:23 -0500, jaugustine wrote:


> When the phone did NOT ring, I saw what looks like a rounded
> sawtooth.
> One sawtooth for each ring period!! The amplitude of the "sawtooth" was
> much lower than the normal ring signal.
>
> Since I have DSL for internet, is it possible one of the DSL filters
> might
> cause this problem?

Do you have any buzzing, hum or crackling when on this phone line?
That is a strong suggestion of a "ground on the line" ie. one of the
wires has a pinhole and is leaking current to the earth. These can be
intermittent and cause all sorts of odd system behavior, such as no ring,
hangups after ring (ring voltage increases ground leakage so CO thinks
line has been picked up momentarily, then drops the call) and of course,
in the worst case, no dial tone.

Jon

[Michael Terrell]

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:04:16 PM UTC-5, Chuck wrote:

The on hook voltage often dropped to a little under 4VDC. It was rarely above 30VDC. The techs that came said the entire subdivision had very old underground cable and over half the pairs were open. A few homes were fed from two pairs, each with an open wire. The line was always noisy. I only kept it, because cell service and internet went down during heavy storms and hurricanes. Cell service here has improved quite a bit in the last 20 years.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

MORE UPDATE:

A service man did NOT come.

Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).

John

[Michael Terrell]

Last mile. between your DEMARC and their SLIC where up to 16 lines are multiplexed to a single pair o the C. O. More lines, if it s Fiber Optic to the C.O, They work from the SLIc towards your house, looking for problems.

[jaugu...@verizon.net]

<SNIP>

>> > UPDATE:
>> >
>> > This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
>> >result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.
>> >
>> > I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
>> >in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
>> >my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
>> >while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring. I contacted
>> >Verizon tech support. A service man is scheduled to come Monday.
>> >
>> MORE UPDATE:
>>
>> A service man did NOT come.
>>
>> Verizon is still working on the problem. I was told by a tech support
>> person that they are working on the cable (not outside my house).
>
>Last mile. between your DEMARC and their SLIC where up to 16 lines are multiplexed to a single pair o the C. O. More lines, if it s Fiber Optic to the C.O, They work from the SLIc towards your house, looking for problems.

FINAL UPDATE:

On Wednesday, 2 Verizon service men showed up. They did some testing at
the pole first, and concluded the problem is in the house.

Note: The previous owner of this house had two phone lines coming in
from the pole, and several lines inside the house.

The service men rewired the main jack, and removed the MOVs surge
protectors (I installed years ago). They ran more ringing tests and since
then, the telephone ALWAYS rings when someone calls.

I tested the MOV surge protectors and they "clamp" at 250 volts. Even
though they seem to be OK, I am going to order new ones.

FYI: Ringing voltage is about 90VAC (20HZ) unloaded (no devices on
line). This is RMS voltage with a PEAK voltage around 127VAC.

Thanks again to everyone, John

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:21:50 -0500, jaugu...@verizon.net wrote:

> UPDATE:
>
> This problem got worse (more frequent) in the last couple days. As a
>result, I was able to determine that NOTHING in the house was the cause.
>
> I disconnected everything at the main phone jack, plugged
>in a spare telephone at that jack, and used my Tracfone to call
>my landline number. The first time, the telephone rang. A little
>while later, I tried it again, and by golly, it did not ring.

Is your phone connected to your modem or are you still on ADSL?

[Rob]

jaugu...@verizon.net <jaugu...@verizon.net> wrote:
> The service men rewired the main jack, and removed the MOVs surge
> protectors (I installed years ago). They ran more ringing tests and since
> then, the telephone ALWAYS rings when someone calls.
>
> I tested the MOV surge protectors and they "clamp" at 250 volts. Even
> though they seem to be OK, I am going to order new ones.

I installed MOVs on my phone line years ago, they failed when there was
a nearby lightning strike (I suppose they did their work). I had to
remove them to get the line working again (which was ISDN at that time,
so 90V DC all the time) and ever since then the two defective MOVs have
been laying in a corner of my electronics work desk waiting for me to
get new ones.... never got around to ordering some, and the local
electronics store where I bought them has long been closed down.

It may be that they were the cause, but of course it may just as well
have been a bad contact that they fixed by fiddling with it.