British propensity for dimunitive nicknames (tranny, addy, proggy, etc.)
msg
Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?, 'addy' for
I presume address, 'proggy' for I presume program ,etc.
In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
C's and D's."
I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
have spread?
As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question', which
is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
is their rated Vgs?"
Anyone else with similar observations to add?
Regards,
Michael
Eeyore
msg wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
> crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
> I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?,
Transformer IME. It's also slang for a transvestite.
> 'addy' for I presume address,
Not of UK origin AFAIK
> 'proggy' for I presume program ,
Never ever heard anyone ever use that.
> etc.
> In the U.S., the only usage of 'tranny' that I've ever heard
> referred to the gearbox between the clutch and the driveshaft or
> in more recent times it is a reference to transgendered people ;)
> Sometimes these terms make for genuine confusion as do
> the multitude of country specific acronyms often seen in
> postings. The shorthand for transistor in circles hereabouts
> is simply 'Q' as in "we need to order that list of Q's, R's,
> C's and D's."
Why Q ? I've never understood that or indeed U for an IC.
I use 'TR' and 'IC' and that's popular UK practice.
> I wonder how far aflung in the British Empire those usages
> have spread?
What Empire ? You're about 50 years out of date ! FYI though, there are many
different linguistic peculiarities across the Commonwealth.
> As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
> India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question',
Do they ?
> which is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
> issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
> is their rated Vgs?"
I think the poster does indeed mean doubt in such a case.
Graham
msg
>
> msg wrote:
<snip>
>>As to other usages, it is quite disconcerting to see posts from
>>India which substitute the word 'doubt' for 'question',
>
>
> Do they ?
>
>
>>which is so common now that one wonders if there isn't some etymological
>>issue at play there, as in "I have a doubt about these MOSFETS: what
>>is their rated Vgs?"
>
>
> I think the poster does indeed mean doubt in such a case.
>
I chose a somewhat ambiguous example - the context would clarify it.
Here are some excerpts of recent posts to 'comp.arch.embedded' which illustrate
the issue:
The poster is asking various questions:
> My doubt number 2 (sorry for sounding so stupid as its very new to me)
> if I am able to write some code using C on some IDE with gcc as the
> compiler. Now will the generated elf file will sit in my processor and
> be accessibly to the VxWorks OS like it is in windows??
The poster is asking a question about device I/O:
> I am using a MSP430x4xx series controller. I have a doubt regarding
> the sharing of the LCD segment pins with I/O pins.
> I am using an LCD glass with 30 segments. The LCD controller of the
> device gives option of either setting S0-S31 OR S0-S27. Is there a way
> of setting S0-S29. This would save me two very valuable I/O pins.
The poster is asking questions about a compiler:
> The sample program which i given here if i compile in Tornado IDE
> of either Windows or Solaris that means creating project then adding
> this sample.cpp file "i am not getting any page faults error".
> Everything is working properly.
> Now my doubt is why not it's working in Command line based in
> Solaris & how can i make it to work. What procedure should i have to follow.
The poster is asking about GUI API programming (not commenting on a
suggestion, etc.):
> My doubt is even if you use GUI instead of program
> instructions interms of final binary how about the size of memory?Do
> applications like Labview which is talked about be able to generate
> final binary and help you to fuse code in final hardware with optimised
> mem size?
Ad infinitum...
In such posts, the usage of 'doubt' is a transliteration from 'question'; the
poster is not 'in doubt', he does not 'have doubts' nor does he state 'I doubt'
as a response to suggestions or in an argument, nor does he 'doubt that...'.
'Doubt' is a substitution for 'question'. Why is this so prevalent from
India and parts of the near east? Is this a dialectical issue?
Regards,
Michael
Arfa Daily
"msg" <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote in message
news:13ee1od...@corp.supernews.com...
'quaintisms' - yes, I know that's not a real word - to be found in those
various India-originating posts. Phrases such as "LCD glass" and "why not
it's working" are a clear indication that English, whilst being written
(spoken) in an entirely understandable way, is not the poster's first
language, just one that they learn as an alternative from an early age,
doubtless due to the colonial influence that came from the days of our
'occupation' of India when it was part of the British Empire. As Graham
pointed out, these are days long gone now.
As far as the various abreviations that you quote, the only one that I
recognise, and indeed use (is the reason for your question the fact that I
used it in a post from earlier today??) is "tranny". For as long as I have
been in this business - that's about 37 years now - it has been used as a
'spoken' abreviation for transformer in the main, and occasionally for a
transistor, as in "that amp needs a new pair of output trannies in its left
channel". Agreed, if it was a valve amp, it might need a new "output tranny"
meaning output transformer, but I've always found that the context in which
it's used leaves little or no doubt as to what is intended. I think that the
reason that it gets used on here is that Usenet posts and e-mail are
'conversational' in the way that they are used.
I don't really think that there is any definitive answer to your basic
question of "when?", as language is an ever-evolving entity, and new words
and phrases or new ways to use words and phrases contextually, are moving in
and out of use all the time. Some stay, some fade. At the moment, and for
the last few years, all of the kids here now go to "uni" rather than
"university", as you did in my day. This has almost certainly been picked up
from the Australian, where this abreviation seems in common usage, as a
result of the youth obsession here with Australian soaps, which are shown
daily on TV, and followed avidly by them.
I can't actually think of too many 'electronic' abreviations in common
verbal usage here. "Screwdy" maybe for a screwdriver. "Amp" for amplifier.
"Sig genny" - obvious "Speccy" or "Spec-Anny" for a spectrum analyser might
be a few, but this have all been in use for as long as I can remember.
Arfa
N Cook
So I will have to add tranny/trannie to this file for translating between
USA and UK
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
Any other electronic technical additions welcome
--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/
Ron(UK)
>
> I can't actually think of too many 'electronic' abreviations in common
> verbal usage here. "Screwdy" maybe for a screwdriver. "Amp" for amplifier.
> "Sig genny" - obvious "Speccy" or "Spec-Anny" for a spectrum analyser might
> be a few, but this have all been in use for as long as I can remember.
Screwy, sig-gen, scope, nippers, conk (condenser), pot, reccy, juice,
the list goes on, there may even be a North/South divide here.
When you enter the technical world of 'The Theatre' shortforms and slang
abound... ceeforms, soco's, leko`s grellies, moles, pyros, twofers and
threefers, limes etc.
I guess every trade has it`s own language.
Ron(UK)
Harold
"N Cook" <dive...@gazeta.pl> wrote in message
news:fc82da$rod$2...@inews.gazeta.pl...
> msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote in message
> news:13edu51...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Greetings:
>>
>> Just wondering when the confusing usages of diminutive names
>> crept into English (by the English), such as 'tranny' for
>> I presume transistor or perhaps transformer?, 'addy' for
>> I presume address, 'proggy' for I presume program ,etc.
I think the terminology may have originated in Australia.
For example, we (Aussies) don't have truckers, we have truckies. We don't
have surfers (surf-board riders), we have surfies. But not every noun is
modified the same way: oh, no ... that'd be boring :)
A couple of sites to browse through, at your leisure:
http://www.abc.net.au/wordmap/
http://www.abc.net.au/newsradio/programs/WORDWATCH.htm
Cheers,
HT.
Franc Zabkar
finger to keyboard and composed:
How did "arse" become "ass"?
Why do Americans pronounce "solder" as "sodder"?
What happened to the "h" in "human" and "herb"?
Why do Aussies say Bazza/Gazza/Shazza when they mean
Barry/Garry/Sharon?
What is the point of Cockney rhyming slang?
Why do Kiwis say "sex" when they mean "six"?
Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
"spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Eeyore
Franc Zabkar wrote:
> Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
> "spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spoiled
13. an imperfectly made object, damaged during the manufacturing process.
Graham
msg
<snip>
> Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
> "spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?
Yes, I have also seen this in posts but it didn't grate as much
as the odd use of 'doubt'.
Regards,
Michael
msg
<snip>
>
> Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
> calling a tube a valve.
>
Indeed, some time back on some Usenet N.G. I read a post inquiring
if the Brits called a CRT a 'picture valve'? There was no reply.
Regards,
Michael
Arfa Daily
"Franc Zabkar" <fza...@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:eooge35qpiib7qg4b...@4ax.com...
Cockney rhyming slang has a long tradition in the east end of London dating
back to when Sir Robert Peel's first police constables were put on the
street. They were known as 'peelers' or 'bobbies', both for Robert Peel's
name. The rhyming slang grew up, so the story goes, so that east end
'villains' could talk freely in the presence of these constables, using
rhyming slang 'code', that only those in their 'group' would understand, and
not the policemen. These days, it's a 'verbal badge' worn by anyone from
that end of London right through into Essex, not just true Cockneys, born
within the sound of Bow bells (the church of St Mary le Bow) - although even
that is these days open to some degree of interpretation.
Many of the more well known rhyming slang phrases are used by people from
all areas of the country now like "that's a really pony amp" - (Pony and
trap - crap) or "Fred's on the dog for ya !" - (dog and bone - phone) or "Go
take a butcher's at that !" - (butcher's hook - look)
Arfa
Arfa Daily
"msg" <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote in message
Back when I were a lad like, just doin' me learnin' in the TV repair trade,
customers used to call anything that led to no picture, "the picture valve".
On many occasions, I would go into a house and ask the customer what the
problem was, and they would reply "Oh, me 'usband says it'll be the picture
valve, me duck" ('me duck' is a sort of term of endearment, much used by
older people in some parts of the country). So you'd go ahead and stick a
new boost rectifier in, or a field output valve, or a tuner mixer valve, and
then the customer would look knowingly at the old one and say " Ah, it was
the picture valve then ?" But I can't recall anyone ever referring to the
picture tube as anything other than that or CRT. Customers always knew it to
be "The tube", and according to them, if it wasn't picture valve (or sound
valve) trouble, then it must be that the tube's gone ...
Happy days !
Arfa
Eeyore
Meat Plow wrote:
> Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
> calling a tube a valve.
The reason for calling your tube a valve is because it has a current controlling
effect. As in a water valve also controls the flow of water.
In the case of a CRT the control aspect no longer applies to some load part of
the circuit so I can understand why it wouldn't be called a valve. Also we'd
have to have a different acronym which would be a bit silly.
Graham
N Cook
news:dF%Fi.5586$gZ....@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
My favourite is titfer for a hat, via "tit for tat"
Who was Ruby Murray anyway ?
And contrary to the diminutive argument
"apples and pears" , "dog and bone" etc are all longer than the original
N Cook
news:186h09....@news.alt.net...
> calling a tube a valve.
>
Only yesterday I had to correct my earlier misunderstood email reply to
someone in the USA.
I had earlier slipped into Brit-speak saying I'd posted something to him,
wheras for USA I have to say I had mailed it to him.
Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
Ron(UK)
>
> Who was Ruby Murray anyway ?
Singer 1950/60`s
Arfa Daily
Well, that's not strictly true in *proper* Cockney rhyming slang, where the
actual rhyming word is left off, this being the part of it that makes it
supposedly a 'coded' language derivative only for understanding by the
initiated. So "apples and pears" only gets spoken as "apples" , "dog and
bone" as "dog", "Ruby Murray" as "Ruby". Interestingly, there was a curry
shop in my town called "The Ruby". A year or two back it changed hands, and
became a take away fish and chip shop. It still bears the name "The Ruby",
so that's a good example of how Cockney rhyming slang has spread out across
the country (I'm about 70 miles from London) and been bastardised into
something else, that is actually not understood by the people who have taken
it on.
Indeed, in some areas of the country, there are newly created examples of
rhyming slang that are 'in the vein of', but don't actually *quite* follow
the rules of proper Cockney rhyming slang, presumably because they have been
thought up by the ever-thicker youth of this country, who don't understand
the 'rules' of this language variation. Such 'new' attempts may well be as
long or even longer than the original plain-language word or phrase that
they are replacing.These are also the examples where the 'rhyming' word is
not very good, or the whole phrase is spoken so that even their
dumber-than-them mates can still understand what they are saying ...
Do you really not know who Ruby Murray was ?
Arfa
N Cook
Then there is back-slang taken into Polari.
eg riah for hair
Polari somehow connects Italians, bargees, actors and homosexuals but how ?
and British Romany, popularised by the likes of "dell-boy" eg Kushti.
What was the one , in the 1940s ?, where you swapped first and last
syllables and added something to make a lilt
Eeyore
N Cook wrote:
> Meat Plow <me...@petitmorte.net> wrote
> > Eeyore wrote:
> > > Franc Zabkar wrote:
> > >
> > >> Why do Chinese English speakers (for example in Singapore) say
> > >> "spoiled" when they mean "damaged" or "faulty"?
> > >
> > > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spoiled
> > >
> > > 13. an imperfectly made object, damaged during the manufacturing
> > > process.
> >
> >
> > Funny I suppose that you Brits refer to a CRT as a tube yet insist on
> > calling a tube a valve.
> >
>
> Only yesterday I had to correct my earlier misunderstood email reply to
> someone in the USA.
> I had earlier slipped into Brit-speak saying I'd posted something to him,
> wheras for USA I have to say I had mailed it to him.
> Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
I like the French for bills (US checks) it's l'addition ! Delighfully
explanatory. :-)
In German it's somewhat more terse, die Rechnung (the 'reckoning').
Graham
Ron(UK)
> Then there is back-slang taken into Polari.
> eg riah for hair
> Polari somehow connects Italians, bargees, actors and homosexuals but how ?
> and British Romany,
Still sometimes used in the World of The Theatre ( pronounced Thee a
Torrrr) dear boy :)
popularised by the likes of "dell-boy" eg Kushti.
> What was the one , in the 1940s ?, where you swapped first and last
> syllables and added something to make a lilt
>
UbbiDubbi, or Verlan
Ron
Smitty Two
"N Cook" <dive...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
> Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
>
>
Only in a restaurant is an invoice for monies due termed a "check."
Otherwise, it's a bill.
Eeyore
Smitty Two wrote:
> "N Cook" <dive...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>
> > Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
> >
>
> Only in a restaurant is an invoice for monies due termed a "check."
Why is that ?
Graham
Ron(UK)
and what about a 'raincheck'
Ron
Pretty far off topic now, I`m surprised the usenet police haven't been
round!
clifto
The same reason we drive on parkways and park on driveways.
If the plural of "mouse" is "mice", pluralize "house" and "spouse". (That
latter one should make one think.)
--
If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming,
you should stop exhaling.
Ron(UK)
> Eeyore wrote:
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>
>>> "N Cook" <dive...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
>>>>
>>> Only in a restaurant is an invoice for monies due termed a "check."
>> Why is that ?
>
> The same reason we drive on parkways and park on driveways.
>
> If the plural of "mouse" is "mice", pluralize "house" and "spouse". (That
> latter one should make one think.)
>
Posh English folks pronounce house as hice
okay yah
Ron(UK)
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Smitty Two wrote:
> >> "N Cook" <dive...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
> >>>
> >> Only in a restaurant is an invoice for monies due termed a "check."
> >
> > Why is that ?
>
> and what about a 'raincheck'
A curious one that. I only tried using it once having discovered its meaning and
it caused confusion (here in the UK at least).
> Pretty far off topic now, I`m surprised the usenet police haven't been
> round!
LOL ! Give them time.
Graham
msg
>
> N Cook wrote:
<snip>
>>Only yesterday I had to correct my earlier misunderstood email reply to
>>someone in the USA.
>>I had earlier slipped into Brit-speak saying I'd posted something to him,
>>wheras for USA I have to say I had mailed it to him.
>>Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
>
>
> I like the French for bills (US checks) it's l'addition !...
Huh? I thought you both had transposed 'check' and 'bill' as a typo; never
have I encountered this usage in the U.S. This sounds a bit like
negative energy; if we in the U.S. could pay our debts with 'bills'
we'd all be richer than Croesus. Except for the spelling (check vs.
cheque) we're stuck tendering that bank draft to pay our 'bills'.
Regards,
Michael
msg
In another post I stated that I'd never encountered the above usage;
I have been absent from sitdown restaurants for so long that I forgot
"check please!".
Regards,
Michael
Smitty Two
Smitty Two
msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:
I think we still have some confusion. We do call "paper" currency
"bills," as in "twenty-dollar bill," so we can pay debts with bills, but
we don't say it that way, we just call that "paying cash" for something.
I guess the British equivalent of "bill" in that usage would be "note?"
Eeyore
Smitty Two wrote:
> msg <msg@_cybertheque.org_> wrote:
> > Eeyore wrote:
> > > N Cook wrote:
> >
> > >>Only yesterday I had to correct my earlier misunderstood email reply to
> > >>someone in the USA.
> > >>I had earlier slipped into Brit-speak saying I'd posted something to him,
> > >>wheras for USA I have to say I had mailed it to him.
> > >>Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
> > >
> > > I like the French for bills (US checks) it's l'addition !...
> >
> > Huh? I thought you both had transposed 'check' and 'bill' as a typo; never
> > have I encountered this usage in the U.S. This sounds a bit like
> > negative energy; if we in the U.S. could pay our debts with 'bills'
> > we'd all be richer than Croesus. Except for the spelling (check vs.
> > cheque) we're stuck tendering that bank draft to pay our 'bills'.
>
> I think we still have some confusion. We do call "paper" currency
> "bills," as in "twenty-dollar bill," so we can pay debts with bills, but
> we don't say it that way, we just call that "paying cash" for something.
> I guess the British equivalent of "bill" in that usage would be "note?"
Correct.
Graham
Arfa Daily
"clifto" <cli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p1tnr4-...@remote.clifto.com...
So were we actually better off in the days before cats on car exhausts, when
we just poisoned the air with CO and assorted hydrocarbons and oxides of
nitrogen ? And if jet engines burn more or less the same stuff that car
engines do, and don't have cats on them, how come they now seem to put out
so much CO2 that the global warming brigade see it as a big issue ? d;~}
Arfa
Ron(UK)
>
> "Ron(UK)" wrote:
>> Pretty far off topic now, I`m surprised the usenet police haven't been
>> round!
>
> LOL ! Give them time.
They don't usually need any time!
Heinz Schmitz
>> > > Americans pay checks with bills - we pay bills with cheques.
>> > Only in a restaurant is an invoice for monies due termed a "check."
>> Why is that ?
>I do not know.
The title of this thread does appear somewhat narrow. Imho the Brits
do love nicknames, wether diminuitive or not. Think of the Krauts, and
the Frogs, for example. Sometimes they even apply their nicknames,
thus, when a person from India was given his default password 'Wog'.
Regards,
H.
Ron(UK)
Oh now that`s unfair, we didn't just single out the Indians with that
epithet, almost anyone born to the right and down a bit was fair game.
Actually I sort of think 'Frog' is almost a term of endearment, there`s
a lot worst things we could call them ;)
I understand that 'wog' short form of 'Polywog' was originally a
nautical term for deckhands of a dusky skinned nature.
I think the Aussies currently corner the market in derogatory nicknames
for people of other nations, tho who knows what the 'natives' call us.
Ron(UK)
Gary Tait
news:Vc2dnRbpOONRoHTb...@bt.com:
> and what about a 'raincheck'
>
Is basically a promise from a vendor to sell you an item that is out of
stock during a sale, at sale price at a date after a sale, when stock is
available.
Gary Tait
>> The reason for calling your tube a valve is because it has a current
>> controlling effect. As in a water valve also controls the flow of
>> water.
>>
>> In the case of a CRT the control aspect no longer applies to some
>> load part of the circuit so I can understand why it wouldn't be
>> called a valve. Also we'd have to have a different acronym which
>> would be a bit silly.
>>
>> Graham
>
> Nothing wrong with CRV. It's a valve like most any other.
Yep, a CRT just controls current to a plate, but a plate on the other end
of the glass.
Ross Herbert
Talking about derogatory or slang names used by Australians prompted
me to check out the dictionary of terms used by WWI military personel.
Outside of Australia you won't have heard of most of these.
http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/res/aus_words/wwi/annoted1.php