Microwave timer/clock 4 digit 7-segmnt display is out. Timer works fine.
Angelo Campanella
for years, but I now use it daily. (Batching it. Dear Wifey now in heaven.)
I can punch in the time I want, and the oven will run and turn off
accordingly. But I can't see the countdown any more because the display
digits are out.
Well they really are not out... just that the lower left segment on all four
are lit continuously, not other segments ever avtivate. Once and a while #1
"4" and occasionally #2 "2" light on cue during the countdown. I've opened
it up and measured power supply voltages and they are correct and normal at
the power supply.
I suspect it to be a power supply problem somewhere in the + busses, or
possibly a common ground not making ground. But I have no clue as to where
to start probing. Each digit is red gas discharge unit, unpluggable from
their socket... really ancient... 1976 vintage.
Any suggestions?
Ange
N_Cook
news:igbg0p$l9g$3...@speranza.aioe.org...
I assume it has a dedicated LED driver, that sort of age probably internal
metalisation drift inside the chip or die carrier. Will it go to a museum?,
I would not have said uwave ovens were around in 1976
Jeff Liebermann
<a.camp...@att.net> wrote:
>I suspect it to be a power supply problem somewhere in the + busses, or
>possibly a common ground not making ground. But I have no clue as to where
>to start probing. Each digit is red gas discharge unit, unpluggable from
>their socket... really ancient... 1976 vintage.
Sounds more like a Nixie tube. Red would mean LED. 1976 vintage
would probably be red LED. How about making life easier and disclose
the Amana (Radar Range) model number?
The bad news is that if all the digits are equally bad and they're
individually unpluggable, then it's probably something in the
electronics. Stuck digits and working timer sounds like a display
multiplexer/driver circuit. It would probably cost less to replace
the oven than repair it, but such an old Amana is a collectors item
and is probably worth restoring. I'm rather surprised that the
magnetron is still functional.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
William Sommerwerck
them. Certainly not in 1976, when LEDs were common and cheap.
If all the lower-left segments are on continuously, I'd suspect a problem in
the logic driving them.
nesesu
It sounds likely that it is the multiplexing circuit that drives the
displays. That probably consists of one chip and 4 transistors. From
your description the displays may be flat plasma displays made, IIRC,
by Burroughs. If you look under Heathkit on eBay, new ones sometimes
come up, but they are relatively expensive.
I worked on an old Amana years ago and it had an intermittant on the
front panel but I cannot remember if it was the display or the keypad
but I rather think itr was the latter. The problem was that corrosion
had developed between the contact fingers that reach from the PCB to
the back of the front panel where they touch the contacts on the
panel. It was a simple matter of sliding the board out and cleaning
the tips of the fingers then sliding it back together. It worked for
at least another 10 years until replaced due to low power output.
Neil S.
Michael A. Terrell
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 00:10:53 -0500, "Angelo Campanella"
> <a.camp...@att.net> wrote:
>
> >I suspect it to be a power supply problem somewhere in the + busses, or
> >possibly a common ground not making ground. But I have no clue as to where
> >to start probing. Each digit is red gas discharge unit, unpluggable from
> >their socket... really ancient... 1976 vintage.
>
> Sounds more like a Nixie tube. Red would mean LED. 1976 vintage
> would probably be red LED. How about making life easier and disclose
> the Amana (Radar Range) model number?
>
> The bad news is that if all the digits are equally bad and they're
> individually unpluggable, then it's probably something in the
> electronics. Stuck digits and working timer sounds like a display
> multiplexer/driver circuit. It would probably cost less to replace
> the oven than repair it, but such an old Amana is a collectors item
> and is probably worth restoring. I'm rather surprised that the
> magnetron is still functional.
What color is the display? VFD were common in early microwaves.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Angelo Campanella
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:K7adnTQAfL-lN7fQ...@earthlink.com...
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> The bad news is that if all the digits are equally bad and they're
>> individually unpluggable, then it's probably something in the
>> electronics. Stuck digits and working timer sounds like a display
>> multiplexer/driver circuit. It would probably cost less to replace
>> the oven than repair it, but such an old Amana is a collectors item
>> and is probably worth restoring. I'm rather surprised that the
>> magnetron is still functional.
I checked to output by measureing the time to boil an 8oz cup of water.
The tag say 700 watss of cooking power, and my timing result was
approximately that... close enough to sy the magnetron was still OK.
> What color is the display?
Red. LED seems pausible.
>VFD were common in early microwaves.
I can see blinking when I san my gaze across it, so it's swithced likey
at 60 Hz or 120 Hz.
If it's not a power supply bus, then it's a bus driven by logic. I just
don't have a schematic for that generic sort of diplay logic.
I know you guys recommend that I replace it, but I don't see anything I
like. The chamber is nice and big... I've been eating meals prepared in it
for over two years now. Soups and pastas, coffee every day... It's my
mechanical mama.
Ange
Michael A. Terrell
I didn't recommend you replace it. One of my microwaves was made in
1985.
Jeff Liebermann
<a.camp...@att.net> wrote:
> I checked to output by measureing the time to boil an 8oz cup of water.
>The tag say 700 watss of cooking power, and my timing result was
>approximately that... close enough to sy the magnetron was still OK.
Impressive.
>> What color is the display?
> Red. LED seems pausible.
Red is LED. Orange could be vacuum fluorescent or LED. I'll be on
LED.
> If it's not a power supply bus, then it's a bus driven by logic. I just
>don't have a schematic for that generic sort of diplay logic.
Could I trouble you for the Amana model number so we don't have to
continue guessing.
>I know you guys recommend that I replace it,
Please re-read the previous comments. Nobody suggested you replace
it. This isn't a newsgroup dedicated to appliance salesmen. If it
cooks well, it should be possible to fix it.
>but I don't see anything I like.
What's the problem? Too many features? Short lifetimes? Bizarre
warranties? Lousy construction? All of these?
>The chamber is nice and big... I've been eating meals prepared in it
>for over two years now. Soups and pastas, coffee every day... It's my
>mechanical mama.
I think you might find it useful to learn how to cook. Think of it as
chemistry and not an art form. Microwave cooking is ok for many
things, but there's plenty of dishes that are best cooked over a
flame, on a grill, or in a real oven. Then there's barbecue.
Michael A. Terrell
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Red is LED. Orange could be vacuum fluorescent or LED. I'll be on
> LED.
It could also be an orange VFD behind a red filter.
N_Cook
So what are some of the numbers on the chips inside and any numbers seen on
the sides of the display/s ?
William Sommerwerck
>> prepared in it for over two years now. Soups and pastas,
>> coffee every day... It's my mechanical mama.
> I think you might find it useful to learn how to cook. Think
> of it as chemistry and not an art form. Microwave cooking
> is ok for many things, but there's plenty of dishes that are
> best cooked over a flame, on a grill, or in a real oven. Then
> there's barbecue.
A microwave oven doesn't actually "cook" anything -- it just heats it. That
works great with soup, pasta, bacon, and a few other things.
Have you seen Betty Crocker "Warm Delights"? It's actually a repurposing of
her awful microwave brownies (which were actually more trouble to make than
regular brownies).
Jeff Liebermann
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> Red is LED. Orange could be vacuum fluorescent or LED. I'll be on
>> LED.
> It could also be an orange VFD behind a red filter.
Touche. Actually, I think we both goofed. Vacuum fluorescent
displays were blue-green and aren't made in orange or red. However,
plasma discharge displays were red or orange. Maybe one of the exotic
incandescent 7 segment displays? This gives a good survey of the
available display technologies:
<http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/calculator_display_technology.html>
As for my cooking (or warming), everything I try to cook or warm is an
experiment. Sometimes it works, but more often not. Some of it is
actually edible. Maybe if I read and follow the instructions?
Angelo Campanella
"N_Cook" <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:igh3nm$i55$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> So what are some of the numbers on the chips inside and any numbers seen
> on
> the sides of the display/s ?
I managed to pry out 7-segment digit #2 chip for inspection.
It's an HP 5082-7730 609-C, 19mm x 10 mm, 14-pin (3 missing) pluggable chip.
It has a matte face, transparent at the 7 segments to interior solid state
material.
The bottom side is filled with clear pink potting where a PC board holding
the pins is visible.
Ange
Michael A. Terrell
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:05:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>
> >> Red is LED. Orange could be vacuum fluorescent or LED. I'll be on
> >> LED.
>
> > It could also be an orange VFD behind a red filter.
>
> Touche. Actually, I think we both goofed. Vacuum fluorescent
> displays were blue-green and aren't made in orange or red. However,
> plasma discharge displays were red or orange. Maybe one of the exotic
> incandescent 7 segment displays?
The RCA Numitron? I may still have a datasheet. I considered them
for a portable homebrew frequency counter, till I saw how much power
they wasted. I ended up using 10 VFD display tubes with wire leads.
After assembly, I used a thin line of contact cement to keep them
aligned. I built my first switching power supply to provide all the
required voltages. This was in the late '70s or early '80s
> This gives a good survey of the available display technologies:
> <http://www.vintagecalculators.com/html/calculator_display_technology.html>
>
> As for my cooking (or warming), everything I try to cook or warm is an
> experiment. Sometimes it works, but more often not. Some of it is
> actually edible. Maybe if I read and follow the instructions?
I use a crock pot for a lot of cooking.
Spehro Pefhany
That's just a regular old 0.3" seven-segment common-anode LED display,
like the old Monsanto MANxxx displays.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/31/319472_1.pdf
Extremely low efficiency by modern standards, but good quality for the
day.
We've got an antique Amana Radarrange with similar red LED displays.
Here's a more modern equivalent that is pin-compatible:
http://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/SA03-11EWA.pdf
(but more than 10x as bright at the same current)
But it's not likely the displays that are causing the problem-
probably the drivers or some connections or circuitry further back.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Spehro Pefhany
(well, pin compatible on the segments, but it has a right-hand decimal
point rather than the rare left-hand on the microwave oven, so not
really 100% compatible...)
Angelo Campanella
"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:j61ji6h03itt4serg...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 00:10:53 -0500, "Angelo Campanella"
> <a.camp...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>I suspect it to be a power supply problem somewhere in the + busses, or
>>possibly a common ground not making ground. But I have no clue as to where
>>to start probing. Each digit is red gas discharge unit, unpluggable from
>>their socket... really ancient... 1976 vintage.
>
> Sounds more like a Nixie tube. Red would mean LED. 1976 vintage
> would probably be red LED. How about making life easier and disclose
> the Amana (Radar Range) model number?
Model: RR6W, P72110-4M
S/N: H56559799
1600 Watts
(I recently measured it as 1,480 watts when running empty.)
Mfg Date May, 1976.
>
> The bad news is that if all the digits are equally bad and they're
> individually unpluggable, then it's probably something in the
> electronics. Stuck digits and working timer sounds like a display
> multiplexer/driver circuit.
I need a schematic, or a generic schematic to hunt down the bad driver.
> It would probably cost less to replace
> the oven than repair it, but such an old Amana is a collectors item
> and is probably worth restoring. I'm rather surprised that the
> magnetron is still functional.
I checked it via boiling time for a cup of cold watrer... it's close to the
rated 7oo watts.
ange
Angelo Campanella
> I assume it has a dedicated LED driver, that sort of age probably internal
> metalisation drift inside the chip or die carrier.
True... but which component? "Driver" comes to mind.
But I have no schematic to identfy components. The model numer is
Model: RR6W, P72110-4M
S/N: H56559799
1600 Watts
(I recently measured it as 1,480 watts when running empty.)
Mfg Date May, 1976.
The cook space chamber is over a cubic foot in volume (14"x14"+x9"+).
> Will it go to a museum?,
It could... for a price.
> I would not have said uwave ovens were around in 1976
They came out that year or the year before. This unit is:
Ange
Angelo Campanella
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:igc7sr$cku$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
True... soemthing common to all 4 digits.
Ange
Angelo Campanella
> So what are some of the numbers on the chips inside and any numbers seen
> on
> the sides of the display/s ?
I managed to pry out 7-segment chip digit #2 chip for review.
It's a 19mm x 10mm 14 pin (3 pins not present) HP5082-7730 609 C.
The face is a transparent matte plastic surface that seem to have red solid
state material for each of the 7 segments over the interior material.
The back side, between pin rows, is pink transparent potting that covers a
PC board holding the 14 (really net 11) pins.
Ange
Angelo Campanella
>>The tag say 700 watts of cooking power, and my timing result was
>>approximately that... close enough to say the magnetron was still OK.
> Impressive.
>>> What color is the display?
> Red is LED. Orange could be vacuum fluorescent or LED. I'll be on
> LED.
OK, it's gotta be LED.
> Could I trouble you for the Amana model number so we don't have to
> continue guessing.
Set recently but again, but here again:
Model: RR6W, P72110-4M
S/N: H56559799
1600 Watts
(I recently measured it as 1,480 watts when running empty.)
Mfg Date May, 1976.
>>I know you guys recommend that I replace it,
> Please re-read the previous comments. Nobody suggested you replace
> it. This isn't a newsgroup dedicated to appliance salesmen. If it
> cooks well, it should be possible to fix it.
>>but I don't see anything I like.
> What's the problem? Too many features? Short lifetimes? Bizarre
> warranties? Lousy construction? All of these?
1- War stories of new microwaves, mostly of Pacific Rim manufacture,
failing after a few years of service.
My son bought me a new one a Christmas go, but it turned out to be
smaller and of Pacific Rim manufacture, so I gave it back to him to give to
somebody else. This Amana is still the war horse.
2- I like this size (over a cubic foot). I think I'd like another Amana... I
think Raytheon bought them out some years ago. The name is still around. I
looked up their web age, and several models are available . A cubic foot+
unit cost about $150 last year... It's in he back of my mind.
> I think you might find it useful to learn how to cook.
I'm looking for a human replacement, but so far no luck.
To keep my weight down, I eat a lot of salads; they require no cooking.
I cook soups from scratch and spaghetti & pastas with the u-wave. I eat very
little meat, mainly chicken, since red meats are heavy and affect my blood
pressure. I eat most anything on special occasions only.
> Think of it as
> chemistry and not an art form. Microwave cooking is ok for many
> things, but there's plenty of dishes that are best cooked over a
> flame, on a grill, or in a real oven. Then there's barbecue.
Cooking, especially frying, sends all kinds of odors into the house
(3-bedroom ranch, closed tight in the winter) that odiferate for hours
later... I eat meats mainly when eating out with friends.
The other son gave me a Forman burger grille. I only used it once. It
really smelled up the house . The range hood was not really of much help.
The Forman grille is best used outdoors.
Back to my Amana RR6W, my only hope to get display functioning back is
to identify the failed component (driver chip?), or replace the entire panel
module... both of which seem highly unlikely. This news group is about the
place I can find to even have an intelligent discussion on the matter. What
is needed is an old-timer that remembers the 7 digit LED display technology
of the '70's and also know the Amana microwave oven use of them.
Getting that circuit board out in the clear to work on it seems to be
nigh impossible. It is in place behind and parallel to the numbers panel.
But its back side is shielded over 2/3 its area with the power supply and
its heat sink. Numbers are on the top end. The bottom end is not in a
connector slot, but rather it's stationary with power supply bus wires and
switching relay control wires soldered in place.
Ange
Angelo Campanella
>>like the old Monsanto MANxxx displays.
>>
>>http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/31/319472_1.pdf
>>
>>Here's a more modern equivalent that is pin-compatible:
>>http://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/SA03-11EWA.pdf
>>(but more than 10x as bright at the same current)
> point rather than the rare left-hand on the microwave oven, so not
> really 100% compatible...)
William Sommerwerck
Akkk! If you keep running it empty, you might damage the magnetron.
I'm reminded of the opening of "The Outer Tsimmes"...
"There is nothing wrong with your television. But if we keep f***ing with it
like this every week, pretty soon there will be."
Geo
wrote:
>
>"Spehro Pefhany" <spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message news:jm3qi65p1idgetb0t...@4ax.com...
>>>That's just a regular old 0.3" seven-segment common-anode LED display,
>>>like the old Monsanto MANxxx displays.
>>>
>>>http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/31/319472_1.pdf
>
>All well and good. But I need a typical driver circuit diagram to probe voltages. It could be something as simple as a dropping resistor that's opened up, or a local filter capacitor that is shorted... I need a pin voltage map to find which voltage is missing.
If you look at this page:-
http://www.decodesystems.com/old-displays.html
There are two gifs from an HP appnote.
They shows suitable multiplexing circuits.
It is possible that your circuit has stopped multiplexing so only single
segments permanently on.
May be missing a clock signal.
--
Geo
N_Cook
Can you view the board enough to count the pins on each of the non-display
electronic chips?
Angelo Campanella
> Can you view the board enough to count the pins on each of the non-display
> electronic chips?
Have to unscrew the bezel allen screws again. in a few days..
Ange
Angelo Campanella
"Geo" <hw9j...@dea.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:cfsti651b4s20lm4g...@4ax.com...
Seems to be near what I have.
> There are two gifs from an HP appnote.
> They shows suitable multiplexing circuits.
> It is possible that your circuit has stopped multiplexing so only single
> segments permanently on.
> May be missing a clock signal.
I'm an old discrete component and vacuum tube guy.
I presume that "strobe" means hat there is only one driver, the SN7447
which is the only segment feeder, that the digit switched on at the moment
by the strobe signal will take segment current and light up.
The current comes from the 7447, whatever of the 7 lines is to run to
make the number of the instant.
In my uwave, only E segment is lit and the E of all 4 digits are on all
the time. No other segments of all 4 digits ever light. Well, actually the
4 of digit 4 is lighting every time its turn comes in the countdown. Perhaps
that digit is more sensitive.
One thing for me to look at is the health of the seven 47 ohm resistors.
Another is to check the + voltage supply. Do I expect 5 volts or some
higher value? The two raw dc supplies are 10 or 20 volts (the filter
capacitors gave away their location.)
Ange