Favorite BJT transistors, sot-23 and TO-92 equivalents - I
Winfield Hill
Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:
'3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?
MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?
BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?
'2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
and etc...
I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
favorite candidates are solicited.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Leon
I've used the 2N5179 and 2N2369A for RF applications, but I've never
come across any complementary devices.
Leon
John Larkin
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Hi, Win!
BCX70, BCX71; beta graded!
2N7002, as sub for BJT
BFT25, as a transistor and as a diode. It's a better pA diode than a
PAD1.
BFS17, fast but not too fast.
John
Hammy
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
NPN - BC817
http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC817_BC817W_BC337_5.pdf
PNP Complement - BC807
http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC807_BC807W_BC327_5.pdf
Jelly beans about the same price as 3904-06's
Winfield Hill
>
>
> Hi, Win!
>
> BCX70, BCX71; beta graded!
>
> 2N7002, as sub for BJT
Hah!
> BFT25, as a transistor and as a diode. It's a better
> pA diode than a PAD1.
Yep, very small die.
> BFS17, fast but not too fast.
What, no PNP equivalent?
I've got BFT92 and BFT93 in the table.
How does the BFT25 compare to the BFT92?
--
Thanks,
- Win
Jim Thompson
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
> opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:
>
> '3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?
Absolutely! Probably the most popular general purpose NPN/PNP pair
around.
>
> MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?
>
> BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
> BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
> can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?
>
> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
'2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes (dating to my
youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
>
> and etc...
>
> I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
> within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
> one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
> favorite candidates are solicited.
Raytheon CK722 ?:-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Winfield Hill
>
>> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>
> '2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes
> (dating to my youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
I remember in the old days we were told these were
gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
same specs. But are they still gold doped?
Do IC fabs often use gold doping? (Yes, I know a
designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
transistors we should know about?
--
Thanks,
- Win
Winfield Hill
>
> NPN - BC817
> http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC817_BC817W_BC337_5.pdf
>
> PNP Complement - BC807
> http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BC807_BC807W_BC327_5.pdf
>
> Jelly beans about the same price as 3904-06's
Yep, and good for higher currents.
Nice beta curves at low Ic.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Jim Thompson
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>Jim Thompson wrote...
>>
>>> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>>
>> '2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes
>> (dating to my youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
>
> I remember in the old days we were told these were
> gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
> same specs. But are they still gold doped?
Win, I don't have an absolute answer for that, but I think they still
are.
>
> Do IC fabs often use gold doping?
Original-flavor TTL is still gold doped. But Schottky versions don't
need storage control (lifetime killing) doping.
Naturally, CMOS doesn't have saturation in the bipolar sense... quite
a God-send for many of my designs.
ECL, MECL, PECL avoid the issue by simply being current steering only.
>(Yes, I know a
> designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
> storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
> transistors we should know about?
I'll ask around.
JeffM
>Winfield Hill wrote:
>>Your favorite candidates are solicited.
>>
>Raytheon CK722 ?:-)
How do you clean off the Cosmoline?
Fred Bartoli
The 2369 complementary is 4208/4258/5771, all sorted from the same
process (National DB), and Jim should remind that I already told that
him once :-)
Still gold doped according to the '96 National DB.
I like the 3904/3906 because of their small geometry.
But when in need of higher beta the BC547/557-847/857 in B or C grade
are good.
For real low current, I like the 5087/5089.
On the other end of the current scale, the Diodes/Zetex ZTX/FMMT618/718
family are real good, but not within Joerg's budget.
BTW, Diodes has extremely interesting MOS/BJT combos (DMB53/54 in real
small package) which have well controlled threshold voltage and that I'm
designing in, right now, for exactly that reason.
--
Thanks,
Fred.
Martin Riddle
"Winfield Hill" <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:hk4jf...@drn.newsguy.com...
Just as common as the 2n39xx : 2n4401 & 2n4403
Cheers
Winfield Hill
>
> Just as common as the 2n39xx : 2n4401 & 2n4403
>
Yep, those are in there.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Jim Thompson
>Winfield Hill a �crit :
>> Jim Thompson wrote...
>>>> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>>> '2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes
>>> (dating to my youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
>>
>> I remember in the old days we were told these were
>> gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
>> same specs. But are they still gold doped?
>>
>> Do IC fabs often use gold doping? (Yes, I know a
>> designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
>> storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
>> transistors we should know about?
>>
>>
>
>The 2369 complementary is 4208/4258/5771, all sorted from the same
>process (National DB), and Jim should remind that I already told that
>him once :-)
>Still gold doped according to the '96 National DB.
I do recall you saying that, but that's not what I find.
2N5771 is made from Process 65, called a "complementary" process to
Process 21, which IS gold-doped. That doesn't necessarily mean
Process 65 is gold-doped.
I do know for a fact that PNP's made in a gold-doped TTL process have
absolutely crappy beta's as in ~1.
That's how I won a coffee bet with Tom Frederiksen... I solved that
problem and put useable PNP's on a gold-doped TTL process, see the
"Thompson" current mirror configuration at...
http://analog-innovations.com/SED/EnhancedCurrentMirrors.pdf
>
>I like the 3904/3906 because of their small geometry.
>But when in need of higher beta the BC547/557-847/857 in B or C grade
>are good.
>For real low current, I like the 5087/5089.
>
>On the other end of the current scale, the Diodes/Zetex ZTX/FMMT618/718
>family are real good, but not within Joerg's budget.
>
>BTW, Diodes has extremely interesting MOS/BJT combos (DMB53/54 in real
>small package) which have well controlled threshold voltage and that I'm
>designing in, right now, for exactly that reason.
Winfield Hill
Here's what I have so far in the condensed table:
NPN PNP
TO-92 SOT-23 TO-92 SOT-23
2N3904 MMBT3904 2N3906 MMBT3906
2N4401 MMBT4401 2N4403 MMBT4403
BC337 BC817 BC327 BC807
2N5089 MMBT5089 2N5087 MMBT5087
BC547C BC847C BC557C BC857C
MPSA14 MMBTA14 MPSA64 MMBTA64
ZTX618 FMMT618 ZTX718 FMMT718
PN2369 MMBT2369 2N5771 MMBT5771
2N5550 MMBT5550 2N5401 MMBT5401
MPSA42 MMBTA42 MPSA92 MMBTA92
MPS5179 BFS17
BFT92 BFT93
TIP142 TIP147
with performance details in columns off to the right.
--
Thanks,
- Win
John Larkin
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Are you showing the BFT92 as an NPN? Or is it a posting wrap artifact?
It's a PNP.
Packaged transistors with Ft's much above 1 GHz are hard to use...
they tend to oscillate in any circuit that's not intended to be an
oscillator. PHEMTs on the other hand usually behave pretty well.
John
Gerhard Hoffmann
>> Do IC fabs often use gold doping?
>
> Original-flavor TTL is still gold doped. But Schottky versions don't
> need storage control (lifetime killing) doping.
Wasn't it the 74H series that featured gold doping?
Burnt a lot of power and had a meager effect?
> Naturally, CMOS doesn't have saturation in the bipolar sense... quite
> a God-send for many of my designs.
and also lucky because these CMOS guys don't like gold in their clean rooms.
IIRC there once was an advertising war wrt gold metallization
in the area of RF power transistors that was not welcomed by
the people who would run a few LDMOS wafers now & then on a line
that normally made 74ACxx.
Not sot-23 but sot-223: BFG31 by NXP. Quite nice medium power RF PNP.
There are many good NPNs, but PNPs are scarce.
BFR93/BFT93 are OK, too.
NEC NE688xx for low 1/f noise. May not be really better than some
others, but at least 1/f is specified at all.
BC850/BC860 as the low noise members of the BC847/48/49/50
and BC857/58/59/60 families.
Fit most sockets, hmmm pads of the other family members, too.
FMMT 634TA npn Darlington ZETEX/Diodes, Inc.
FMMT 734TA pnp Darlington
Gerhard
Fred Bartoli
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:19:36 +0100, Fred Bartoli <" "> wrote:
>
>> Winfield Hill a �crit :
>>> Jim Thompson wrote...
>>>>> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>>>> '2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes
>>>> (dating to my youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
>>> I remember in the old days we were told these were
>>> gold-doped, and modern '2369 parts still have the
>>> same specs. But are they still gold doped?
>>>
>>> Do IC fabs often use gold doping? (Yes, I know a
>>> designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
>>> storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
>>> transistors we should know about?
>>>
>>>
>> The 2369 complementary is 4208/4258/5771, all sorted from the same
>> process (National DB), and Jim should remind that I already told that
>> him once :-)
>> Still gold doped according to the '96 National DB.
>
> I do recall you saying that, but that's not what I find.
>
> 2N5771 is made from Process 65, called a "complementary" process to
> Process 21, which IS gold-doped. That doesn't necessarily mean
> Process 65 is gold-doped.
>
You should also recall that you asked me that very same question and
that I answered, it's written, black on white, in my '86 National databook:
Process 65 is an overlay, double diffused, ***gold dopped***, silicon
epitaxial device. Complement to process 21.
Same for process, 21.
> I do know for a fact that PNP's made in a gold-doped TTL process have
> absolutely crappy beta's as in ~1.
>
You were saying that, too...
> That's how I won a coffee bet with Tom Frederiksen... I solved that
> problem and put useable PNP's on a gold-doped TTL process, see the
> "Thompson" current mirror configuration at...
>
... and that too...
And you finished by something like, one learns everyday...
Maybe no so, or is it that one forget everyday too? ;-)
--
Thanks,
Fred.
Paul E. Schoen
MPSA06 MMBTA06 PZTA06 MPSA56 MMBTA56 PZTA56 (TO-92 SOT-23 SOT-223)
MJE180-182 MJE170-172 (TO-225AA)
2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)
Figured that some power types should be added as well...
Paul
Jim Thompson
Call me stubborn... everyone does ;-)
But I think it was a typo by some uninformed applications writer to
state that there was a PNP process with gold doping.
Surfing around I'm not finding anything but our own ears ringing ;-)
Winfield Hill
>
>Not sot-23 but sot-223: BFG31 by NXP. Quite nice medium power RF PNP.
>There are many good NPNs, but PNPs are scarce.
>
>BFR93/BFT93 are OK, too.
>
>NEC NE688xx for low 1/f noise. May not be really better than some
>others, but at least 1/f is specified at all.
>
>BC850/BC860 as the low noise members of the BC847/48/49/50
>and BC857/58/59/60 families.
>Fit most sockets, hmmm pads of the other family members, too.
>
>FMMT 634TA npn Darlington ZETEX/Diodes, Inc.
>FMMT 734TA pnp Darlington
Excellent.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Winfield Hill
>
> Are you showing the BFT92 as an NPN? Or is it a posting wrap
> artifact? It's a PNP.
Oops! Good catch, I meant BFR93 for the NPN. Thanks!
> Packaged transistors with Ft's much above 1 GHz are hard to use...
> they tend to oscillate in any circuit that's not intended to be an
> oscillator. PHEMTs on the other hand usually behave pretty well.
Even with damping resistors? E.g., EF outputs look
like an inductor, due to the falling beta (assuming
a low source impedance). L = Rs / 2pi fT, above
the breakpoint frequency, f = fT r_e / Rs. That
output inductance resonates with capacitive loads,
but a damping resistor can keep Q = 1 max.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Winfield Hill
>
>
> MPSA06 MMBTA06 PZTA06 MPSA56 MMBTA56 PZTA56 (TO-92 SOT-23 SOT-223)
> MJE180-182 MJE170-172 (TO-225AA)
> 2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)
>
> Figured that some power types should be added as well...
Good, good.
--
Thanks,
- Win
John Larkin
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Emitter followers, diffamps, cascodes, even plain common-emitter amps
like to oscillate with hot transistors, like the zillion-GHz NEC parts
for example. By the time you add enough base resistance to calm them
down, you may as well have used a slower transistor.
The RF boys know how to design tuned circuits that are stable.
I've played with fast NPNs, including some 45 GHz SiGe things, as
switches. They are disappointingly slow. PHEMTS, on the other hand,
switch really, really fast.
John
John Larkin
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Are you going to mention MMICS somewhere else? Some of them make
radical wideband amps, even pulse amplifiers, so are options to
replace discretes and opamps. They tend to be very stable.
John
Winfield Hill
>
> Are you going to mention MMICS somewhere else? Some of them make
> radical wideband amps, even pulse amplifiers, so are options to
> replace discretes and opamps. They tend to be very stable.
OK, we're fans as well, they'll go into 2x.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Hammy
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
Here's a couple of On Semi's low Vce sat bjt's.They are a little
pricey but still cheaper then diodes comparable FMMT series. The only
reason I have them is Newark puts them on sale time to time like right
now I see.
NSS40201LT1G - NPN 40V 4A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NSS40201L-D.PDF
Complement
NSS40200LT1G- -PNP 40V 4A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NSS40200L-D.PDF
Two more of On semis low Vce sat bjt's I have are below . They are
SOT-223 though. Reasonably priced to.
NJT4031N - NPN 40V 3A SOT-23
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NJT4031N.PDF
Complement
NJT4030P - PNP 40V 3A SOT-23
Tim Williams
news:bRn9n.44496$Np1....@newsfe19.iad...
> 2N3055 MJ2955 (TO-3)
Eww-w-w-w-w! At least MJ15001/2. MJ15031/2 are even better. Actually, if
you must have TO-3, anything MJ150xx is good. Almost anything good comes in
TO-247's these days, TO-3 really is ancient now.
Speaking of power transistors: high voltage switches - MJE13003 (~1.5A, used
in CFLs), MJE18009 and such (450V, >5A), and usually available in fullpak
too (MJFx), plus a whole slough of Japanese equivalents (off the top of my
head, 2SC2625, 3306, 4020, etc.). Fairchild and a bunch of others have
their lines of second sources and similar parts. Maybe not as useful for
textbook examples (where you'd rather show a stately MOSFETs handling an
SMPS, not those fifty cent whore BJTs! :-) ).
Other power transistors include TIP29-32, obviously, plus the old
TIP112/120/etc. darlingtons, good for linear apps and slow switching.
2SD1273 is a superbeta power transistor, 2A 30V full pack. Really odd find,
and not all that useful, but it does make an excellent replacement for a
darlington when you need low Vce(sat)!
For general high beta, 2N5088 is jellybean. Not really superbeta, but up
there. I think one of those BC's Win started off with, BC547C, comes in
obscenely high beta as well (the C grade).
I recently looked up some highish frequency jellybean sorts of transistors,
but now I can't find where I put the list...
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Winfield Hill
>
> Here's a couple of On Semi's low Vce sat bjt's.They are a little
> pricey but still cheaper then diodes comparable FMMT series. The only
> reason I have them is Newark puts them on sale time to time like right
> now I see.
>
> NSS40201LT1G - NPN 40V 4A SOT-23
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NSS40201L-D.PDF
>
> Complement
> NSS40200LT1G- -PNP 40V 4A SOT-23
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NSS40200L-D.PDF
>
> Two more of On semis low Vce sat bjt's I have are below.
> They are SOT-223 though. Reasonably priced to.
> NJT4031N - NPN 40V 3A SOT-23
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NJT4031N.PDF
>
> Complement
> NJT4030P - PNP 40V 3A SOT-23
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NJT4030P-D.PDF
Very nice, I like the ON Semi parts, and the way they go
out of their way to give you decent datasheets. Unlike
Zetex, who often makes you do with one page.
Have you noticed the way these parts present you with
Rds(on) values? Like 80 m-ohms for the NSS40200?
I like that. Sure, trying to compare to a MOSFET, but
hey, characterizing the high-current saturation-voltage
upswing as a resistance is really the right way to go.
Doing a quick look right now, I couldn't even find a sot-23
MOSFET with Rds(on) = 0.08 ohms or less (they were bigger),
let alone one going for $0.90 each, qty 100. Nice.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Okkim Atnarivik
: On 31 Jan 2010 16:10:06 -0800, Winfield Hill
: <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
: >
: > Even with damping resistors? E.g., EF outputs look
: > like an inductor, due to the falling beta (assuming
: > a low source impedance). L = Rs / 2pi fT, above
: > the breakpoint frequency, f = fT r_e / Rs. That
: > output inductance resonates with capacitive loads,
: > but a damping resistor can keep Q = 1 max.
: like to oscillate with hot transistors, like the zillion-GHz NEC parts
: for example. By the time you add enough base resistance to calm them
: down, you may as well have used a slower transistor.
There is one place for those fast transistor, tranquilized
by GHz damping circuits close to the transistor: when you need very
low noise at intermediate frequencies. As an instance, the voltage
noise of the SiGe BFP650 can be less than 1/4 nanovolt. An example
spectrum is found in fig.4 of www.24.fi/kiviranta/xeus/vtt_ltd13pap_f.pdf
(now out in AIP Conf. Proc. vol. 1185) . NESG3031 is another nice
device in this respect.
Regards,
Mikko
John Larkin
Cool.
Fig 4 is impressive, but "base grounded" implies that it will be
useful only for very low source impedances. Transformers get
interesting in such situations, or *lots* of opamps or jfets in
parallel, which will be better at low frequencies.
John
Bill Sloman
The BFR92 and BFR92A are the complements of the PNP BFT92.
They all tend to oscillate, but putting a 33R "base-stopper" resistor
in series with base (and close up against it) kills off most
oscillations, without doing much damage to the high-frequency gain.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Robert Latest
> Do IC fabs often use gold doping?
I've never heard of that. I think gold and other alchemy is what keeps
discretes fabs alive and kicking in ol' US and Europe.
> (Yes, I know a
> designer can use circuit schemes instead to reduce
> storage time.) Are there other gold-doped discrete
> transistors we should know about?
I need to look, but I think NXP's 3904 and 3906 (complementary) are gold
doped. The 3904 uses the same process as the BSR13, and I know that
BSR13 has a gold doping step.
robert
Robert Latest
> Here's a couple of On Semi's low Vce sat bjt's.They are a little
> pricey but still cheaper then diodes comparable FMMT series.
Good call! NXP also have a similar line (called BISS), I don't know how
they compare to ON's stuff.
robert
Joerg
> John Larkin wrote...
>>
>> Hi, Win!
>>
>> BCX70, BCX71; beta graded!
>>
>> 2N7002, as sub for BJT
>
I'd also throw the BSS84 for P-channel into the hat. It's my jelly-bean
part.
> Hah!
>
>> BFT25, as a transistor and as a diode. It's a better
>> pA diode than a PAD1.
>
> Yep, very small die.
>
>> BFS17, fast but not too fast.
>
> What, no PNP equivalent?
> I've got BFT92 and BFT93 in the table.
> How does the BFT25 compare to the BFT92?
>
The BFT25 is NPN. Phil Hobbs should be able to give a good account on
that one.
While we're at it, what other categories do you need hints for? For
example, for drivers con mucho gusto the MIC4421/22 series is great but
hardly any young engineer knows about stuff like that.
Oh, and tell readers not to blindly trust POR/BOR circuitry inside a uC ;-)
Can't hurt to mention some of the budget rockets, like the BFP620, but
with the usual caution notes (like that it might be oscillating without
even noticing it, until a government van shows up ...):
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Joerg
Might also want to sprinkle in some jelly-bean power FETs like the
IRF640. They are used everywhere.
Hammy
I think they all have low Vce sat BJT's now. For example Fairchild's
got these;
FSB560 NPN - 2A; 60V; SOT-23
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS/FSB560A.pdf
FSB660A PNP - 2A; 60V; SOT-23
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS/FSB660A.pdf
I've never used those two but they are cheap a dime for the NPN at
Newark; the PNP isn't stocked.
A quick search of Fairchild shows at least 6 low sat bjt's ranging
from 1 amp to 3amps.
Another decent one from Onsemi I have used and have is the
MBT35200MT1 PNP - 2A; 35V; TSOP-6
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MBT35200MT1-D.PDF
I do prefer On semis datasheets to Zetex/Diodes, and stateing the
equivalent Rdson is a good idea for quick comparisons.
Okkim Atnarivik
> <Okkim.A...@24.fi.invalid> wrote:
>>low noise at intermediate frequencies. As an instance, the voltage
>>noise of the SiGe BFP650 can be less than 1/4 nanovolt. An example
>
> Cool.
>
> Fig 4 is impressive, but "base grounded" implies that it will be
> useful only for very low source impedances. Transformers get
Current noise is in the ballpark of 4.5 pA/rtHz, which makes it
approximately to noise-match with a 50ohm source at an order-of 40K
noise temperature. The frequency range extends at least up to
100 MHz but probably still much higher, even with the tranquilizers
present.
I have had difficulties to wind really wideband transformers on
low-loss cores in the past. The sporadic commercial transformers
I've tried tended to have to high-enough losses to eat the noise temp.
> interesting in such situations, or *lots* of opamps or jfets in
> parallel, which will be better at low frequencies.
True, done that in the past, with BF862's for instance. It just
gets complicated, and in wideband designs you may create curious
oscillation modes. In the sub-10kHz you can indeed do better with
some other amps.
Regards,
Mikko
Joerg
[...]
> True, done that in the past, with BF862's for instance. ...
^^^^^
Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
cell provides. Very useful.
How could I have forgotten, oh, this will haunt me, the wrath of the old
Philips engineers will come upon me ...
Okkim Atnarivik
> Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
> jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
> JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
Yes, but he asked for BJTs...
Robert Baer
> On 31 Jan 2010 10:51:43 -0800, Winfield Hill
> <Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
>> opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:
>>
>> '3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?
>
> Absolutely! Probably the most popular general purpose NPN/PNP pair
> around.
>
>> MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?
>>
>> BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
>> BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
>> can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?
>>
>> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>
> '2369 is a gold-doped NPN made for switching purposes (dating to my
> youth :-). I don't know of a complement.
>
>>
>> I'm working on two tables, a short one for inclusion
>> within the body of the transistor chapter, and a long
>> one to be placed at the back of the book. Your
>> favorite candidates are solicited.
>
> Raytheon CK722 ?:-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Want a working unit?
Jim Thompson
I have several each of CK722, CK760 and CK761 (if I can remember where
I stashed them :-). My father was a Raytheon wholesaler from 1956
onward for quite a few years.
Joerg
Ok, then just make it a "bonus delivery" of ideas :-)
Oh, Winfield: Please mention in your book the fact that there are
newsgroups such as this one if people get stuck, need circuit ideas or
want to help youngsters. Most people who buy the book nowadays don't
have the foggiest what Usenet is. When I bought my AoE way back when I
did not know sci.electronics.design either.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
>Okkim Atnarivik wrote:
>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:7soub2Fc5mU1
>>> Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
>>> jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
>>> JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
>>
>> Yes, but he asked for BJTs...
>>
>
>Ok, then just make it a "bonus delivery" of ideas :-)
>
>Oh, Winfield: Please mention in your book the fact that there are
>newsgroups such as this one if people get stuck, need circuit ideas or
>want to help youngsters. Most people who buy the book nowadays don't
>have the foggiest what Usenet is. When I bought my AoE way back when I
>did not know sci.electronics.design either.
I've been around here so long I started out reading and posting using
TIN ;-)
Joerg
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:54:47 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Okkim Atnarivik wrote:
>>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:7soub2Fc5mU1
>>>> Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
>>>> jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
>>>> JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
>>> Yes, but he asked for BJTs...
>>>
>> Ok, then just make it a "bonus delivery" of ideas :-)
>>
>> Oh, Winfield: Please mention in your book the fact that there are
>> newsgroups such as this one if people get stuck, need circuit ideas or
>> want to help youngsters. Most people who buy the book nowadays don't
>> have the foggiest what Usenet is. When I bought my AoE way back when I
>> did not know sci.electronics.design either.
>
> I've been around here so long I started out reading and posting using
> TIN ;-)
>
I did let off a few posts back in the early 80's using a service called
"Datex" but I have no idea whether that forum was related to Usenet. You
had to go into the basement of a university building. Then you had to
find someone with a key to the computation machine room who was able to
fire up the machine with all them blinkenlights. There were also a few
Juki card punching machines.
Okkim Atnarivik
: I've been around here so long I started out reading and posting using
: TIN ;-)
Amusing, I'm posting this from TIN right now. I thought it is a pretty
modern newsreader, at least the university used to provide some other
programs in the past years.
Regards,
Mikko
Jim Thompson
As far as I can tell, TIN is still maintained, and quite up-to-date.
I used it on dial-up, (IIRC) early '80's.
RST Engineering
Jellybean NPN - (prefix) 2222A
PNP - (prefix) 2907A
RF NPN (prefix) 5770
Jim
On 31 Jan 2010 10:51:43 -0800, Winfield Hill
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> Working on a table for our book, soliciting your
> opinions, info and advice. For example, try these:
>
> '3904 ans '3906 = jellybean?
>
> MPS5179, PN5179, MMBT5179 -- what's PNP equivalent?
>
> BC547 NPN, sot-23 equiv = BC847, right?
> BC557 PNP, sot-23 = BC857 ?
> can I just show the C-grade high-beta variant?
>
> '2369 ... what's a better type, PNP equiv?
>
Paul E. Schoen
"Joerg" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7soor4...@mid.individual.net...
>
> I'd also throw the BSS84 for P-channel into the hat. It's my jelly-bean
> part.
I still like the 2N3819 N-channel JFET. I used it in an audio preamp I
built as a hobby project around 1970, and I used it in an analog
programmable-gain amplifier I designed around 1985. It's still available
from Mouser for 10 cents each, and is still made by Fairchild.
www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N%2F2N3819.pdf
Also, it's first on the list of devices in LTSpice!
Paul
John Larkin
If you were stuck on a desert island and could only have one jfet, it
would have to be the BF862. Gm is 45 mS and noise is 0.8 nv/rthz.
There's nothing else like it.
John
Tim Williams
message news:bhpgm59nnqotp4n2g...@4ax.com...
> As far as I can tell, TIN is still maintained, and quite up-to-date.
>
> I used it on dial-up, (IIRC) early '80's.
Big deal, I was just browsing this newsgroup from a TCP/IP terminal.
krw
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:54:47 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Okkim Atnarivik wrote:
>>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:7soub2Fc5mU1
>>>> Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
>>>> jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
>>>> JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
>>>
>>> Yes, but he asked for BJTs...
>>>
>>
>>Ok, then just make it a "bonus delivery" of ideas :-)
>>
>>Oh, Winfield: Please mention in your book the fact that there are
>>newsgroups such as this one if people get stuck, need circuit ideas or
>>want to help youngsters. Most people who buy the book nowadays don't
>>have the foggiest what Usenet is. When I bought my AoE way back when I
>>did not know sci.electronics.design either.
>
>I've been around here so long I started out reading and posting using
>TIN ;-)
You've been around so long that you witnessed the invention of tin.
;-)
Jan Panteltje
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<984hm5d9uh7qfnms2...@4ax.com>:
I have a lot of BF245, only about 6.5 mS, but very nice to have around.
If I was to stock up on MOSFETS I would get more IRLZ34N, low voltage on,
high current, avalanche protected.
Jim Thompson
Not quite. Wikipedia says tin plating has been done for "hundreds of
years".
I'm still young (at least of mind):
I turn the big 7-0 at the end of this month (actually 17.5 birthdays
;-)
The end of March, "N" and I will celebrate the big 5-0 anniversary!
Fred Bartoli
On a desert island that would be a nice feature to protect you against
tsunamis.
--
Thanks,
Fred.
Tim Williams
news:4b68be94$0$21285$426a...@news.free.fr...
> On a desert island that would be a nice feature to protect you against
> tsunamis.
You're right, better throw in some IGBTs for the tidal generators!
TIm
John Larkin
>Jan Panteltje a �crit :
Yeah, hide behind a grounded gate.
John
krw
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:50:35 -0600, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:58:02 -0700, Jim Thompson
>><To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:54:47 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Okkim Atnarivik wrote:
>>>>> Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:7soub2Fc5mU1
>>>>>> Hey, Winfield, Mikko just brought another excellent one for the
>>>>>> jelly-bean list. This one has got to be in there, very low pinch-off
>>>>>> JFET, steep enough to start an oscillator from less voltage than a fuel
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but he asked for BJTs...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ok, then just make it a "bonus delivery" of ideas :-)
>>>>
>>>>Oh, Winfield: Please mention in your book the fact that there are
>>>>newsgroups such as this one if people get stuck, need circuit ideas or
>>>>want to help youngsters. Most people who buy the book nowadays don't
>>>>have the foggiest what Usenet is. When I bought my AoE way back when I
>>>>did not know sci.electronics.design either.
>>>
>>>I've been around here so long I started out reading and posting using
>>>TIN ;-)
>>
>>You've been around so long that you witnessed the invention of tin.
>>;-)
>
>Not quite. Wikipedia says tin plating has been done for "hundreds of
>years".
Tell me, how did they first make bronze? ;-)
>I'm still young (at least of mind):
>
>I turn the big 7-0 at the end of this month (actually 17.5 birthdays
>;-)
I believe that would be the fist of next month (isn't that the
*official* birthday?).
>The end of March, "N" and I will celebrate the big 5-0 anniversary!
Long time. June will be 39 for us.
JosephKK
Family time, then "N" and you time. Have a lot of fun.
Robert Baer
Jan Panteltje
"> wrote in <4b68be94$0$21285$426a...@news.free.fr>:
I had a litte avalanche here today.
been snowing and ice-snow, sort of wet snow, after that.
Lots of snow on the roof.
This moring the nearby church bells sounded, and the sound triggered an
avalanche from the roof!
Very interesting effect:-)
John Larkin
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:08:52 +0100) it happened Fred Bartoli <"
>"> wrote in <4b68be94$0$21285$426a...@news.free.fr>:
>
>>Jan Panteltje a �crit :
As the snow creeps down the roof of our cabin, it curls over the edge
and does this...
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Bent_Icycles.jpg
which I thought was pretty weird. But I grew up in the South, where
there are no icicles, so it may be common. And I'm easily amused.
Our building codes require flat structures to handle 400 pounds of
snow load per square foot, so roofs tend to be steeply peaked.
Every now and then the whole mess on the roof avalanches off onto the
ground (and any objects nearby.) That can get noisy.
John
Jim Thompson
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:06:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
>>
>>I had a litte avalanche here today.
>>been snowing and ice-snow, sort of wet snow, after that.
>>Lots of snow on the roof.
>>This moring the nearby church bells sounded, and the sound triggered an
>>avalanche from the roof!
>>Very interesting effect:-)
>
>As the snow creeps down the roof of our cabin, it curls over the edge
>and does this...
>
>ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Bent_Icycles.jpg
>
>which I thought was pretty weird. But I grew up in the South, where
>there are no icicles, so it may be common. And I'm easily amused.
>
>Our building codes require flat structures to handle 400 pounds of
>snow load per square foot, so roofs tend to be steeply peaked.
>
>Every now and then the whole mess on the roof avalanches off onto the
>ground (and any objects nearby.) That can get noisy.
>
>John
The only ice I care to see are the cubes in my drink ;-)
It's just after 8AM here... COLD, 55�F :-)
Jan Panteltje
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<7j3jm5drrebslrvfv...@4ax.com>:
>As the snow creeps down the roof of our cabin, it curls over the edge
>and does this...
>
>ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Bent_Icycles.jpg
>
>which I thought was pretty weird. But I grew up in the South, where
>there are no icicles, so it may be common. And I'm easily amused.
>
>Our building codes require flat structures to handle 400 pounds of
>snow load per square foot, so roofs tend to be steeply peaked.
>
>Every now and then the whole mess on the roof avalanches off onto the
>ground (and any objects nearby.) That can get noisy.
>
>John
The Dutch word for that is 'ijspegels'.
I have never seen bended ones like that :-)
Ban
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:984hm5d9uh7qfnms2...@4ax.com...
without soldering iron and for the girl you don't need a soldering iron
don't u?
Jim Thompson
Only if you're into extreme kinky ;-)
John Larkin
Yeah, my wife grew up in Boston and never saw curvey ones like that.
The bigger ones get wide and flat and curl enough to touch the
windows.
Neat. Not a BJT in sot-23, but neat.
John
Ecnerwal
John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/Bent_Icycles.jpg
Yeah, it does that. I get confused about where you are at - Mostly (&
company) seems to be SF, where I somehow doubt this picture is taken,
but you mentioned Charlemont once when burning brush while using wi-fi.
That seems more likely for this picture. Just over the mountain with the
hole through it from me if you are there.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
John Larkin
No, this was taken at the cabin in Truckee. The snow depth on the
ground was 49" this morning, and there's another big chain of storms
on the way.
http://www.communityink.com/cam/index.cfm
Your mountains have holes?
John
Ecnerwal
John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> Your mountains have holes?
>
> John
Yes. Really straight holes. This one has a pretty side, and an ugly
side, and those people on the pretty side are idiots, since large things
still fill the hole on a regular basis.
http://www.justtheberkshires.com/images/Florida_Hoosac_Tunnel.jpg
http://newenglandoddities.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/hoosac-west-port
al-north-adams-2008-05-24-21.jpg
Michael A. Terrell
And he signed off on the design review. ;-)
--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
Michael A. Terrell
Congratulations. "N" has done a good job of keeping you in line, all
those years. :)
John Larkin
Cool. I like tunnels.
Here's our equivalent in the Sierras:
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_Donner_Lake.jpg
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_sign.jpg
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_Tunnel.jpg
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_inside.jpg
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_jeep_inside.jpg
ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_snow_shed.jpg
What's especially neat is that if you know where the entrance is
hidden, you can drive through the tunnels and snow sheds. That's The
Brat's jeep in the pics.
John
Jan Panteltje
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
<t8hjm59o1au9k7jls...@4ax.com>:
>On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:35:56 -0500, Ecnerwal
><MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>In article <0ubjm5d9tomlahkcp...@4ax.com>,
>> John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Your mountains have holes?
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>Yes. Really straight holes. This one has a pretty side, and an ugly
>>side, and those people on the pretty side are idiots, since large things
>>still fill the hole on a regular basis.
>>
>>http://www.justtheberkshires.com/images/Florida_Hoosac_Tunnel.jpg
>>http://newenglandoddities.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/hoosac-west-port
>>al-north-adams-2008-05-24-21.jpg
>
>Cool. I like tunnels.
>
>Here's our equivalent in the Sierras:
>
>ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/CW_Donner_Lake.jpg
That is beautiful.
John Larkin
The road (Donner Pass Road) is part of the old Lincoln Highway, the
first auto road that went coast-to-coast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Highway
Damn, Wikipedia knows everything!
Lake Tahoe, about 15 miles away, is also beautiful. The surface is at
6200 feet, and it's about 1600 feet deep.
John
krw
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
I've never seen it that pronounced. Neat.
>Our building codes require flat structures to handle 400 pounds of
>snow load per square foot, so roofs tend to be steeply peaked.
A few years back many roofs were collapsing in VT after a 3' snowfall
on St. Valentines day, another 2' a few weeks later, in addition to
the frequent 2-6" storms. There isn't often a melt between Christmas
and April, so what falls tends to stay.
>Every now and then the whole mess on the roof avalanches off onto the
>ground (and any objects nearby.) That can get noisy.
Unless the roof is metal, it shouldn't avalanche off. The roof should
stay cold such that it melts top down. Most roofing material is rough
enough to keep it from sliding.
John Larkin
It's metal, and pretty steep, just about 45 degrees. With the amount
of snow we get up there, avalanching is a Good Thing. The record for
around here is 819 inches of snow in one season.
John
krw
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
Thinking about those some more, is that the windward side of the
house?
>>>Our building codes require flat structures to handle 400 pounds of
>>>snow load per square foot, so roofs tend to be steeply peaked.
>>
>>A few years back many roofs were collapsing in VT after a 3' snowfall
>>on St. Valentines day, another 2' a few weeks later, in addition to
>>the frequent 2-6" storms. There isn't often a melt between Christmas
>>and April, so what falls tends to stay.
>>
>>>Every now and then the whole mess on the roof avalanches off onto the
>>>ground (and any objects nearby.) That can get noisy.
>>
>>Unless the roof is metal, it shouldn't avalanche off. The roof should
>>stay cold such that it melts top down. Most roofing material is rough
>>enough to keep it from sliding.
>
>It's metal, and pretty steep, just about 45 degrees. With the amount
>of snow we get up there, avalanching is a Good Thing. The record for
>around here is 819 inches of snow in one season.
Metal is good. Steep is good. Warm is not good. OTOH, 45 degrees
(12:12 pitch) isn't all that rare by today's standards. This house
has a 15:12 pitch (no way I'm going up there). OTOH, the VT house was
9:12 front and 2:12 on the rear shed dormer. The snow worried me a
few times when we were in that house. Not so much in this one. ;-)
RST Engineering
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
>No, this was taken at the cabin in Truckee. The snow depth on the
>ground was 49" this morning, and there's another big chain of storms
>on the way.
The college has me teaching in Truckee this semester, and I'm here to
tell you going home over the hill to Grass Valley at night sharing the
road with the 18 wheelers in blowing snow gives a whole 'nuther
meaning to the word "fun".
Jim
John Larkin
What, don't you appreciate the scenic Runaway Truck Ramps?
We'll be up there most of next week. I could buy you a beer at The
Lodge or something. Email me
jjlarkin atsign highlandtechnology period com
John
JosephKK
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:bhpgm59nnqotp4n2g...@4ax.com...
>> As far as I can tell, TIN is still maintained, and quite up-to-date.
>>
>> I used it on dial-up, (IIRC) early '80's.
>
>Big deal, I was just browsing this newsgroup from a TCP/IP terminal.
>
>Tim
And i thought i was hard core, telneting a news server and logging in for
verification purposes.
JosephKK
>Martin Riddle wrote...
>>
>> Just as common as the 2n39xx : 2n4401 & 2n4403
>>
>
> Yep, those are in there.
And then there is a pair of my old faves
2n5680 (pnp) and 2n5682 (npn) 100 V, 1 A useful as a modest power amp.
Spehro Pefhany
SS8550/SS8050 are rated for such use, and popular in some circles.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com