Adding a 6v boost to a 12v battery charger
Too_Many_Tools
only.
I want to use its boost feature (200amp) on 6 volt systems.
Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do both
12v and 6v?
I have looked and have not found any schematics.
I am assuming that any mods will be downstream of the transformer.
Thanks for any suggestions.
TMT
whit3rd
> I have access to a Schumacher wheeled battery charger that is 12 v
> only.
>
> I want to use its boost feature (200amp) on 6 volt systems.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do both
> 12v and 6v?
That's a kilowatt problem, of course...
If the charger has inductive filtering on the outputs (this is
likely, because it allows better rectifier conduction
duty cycle, keeps things cheaper), then you might be able to
lower the RMS input voltage from 120VAC to something
lower, and get proportional output. Some kinds of
light dimmer (the ones for inductive loads, like dimmed
halogen-lights-on-a-transformer) can safely handle it.
amdx
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:62f9120d-61aa-430d...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
You need about a 6 volt tap on the transformer.
I had an old battery charger/car starter that put out 300 amps at 10.5
volts.
Somebody stole it, %$&^%!
Mike
Too_Many_Tools
Thanks for the responses so far...anyone else?
And any suggestions to other sites where I can post this question?
Links please.
Thanks
Too_Many_Tools
No more suggestions?
Any suggestions where I could post this question where designers hang
out?
Thanks
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Let's try casting the net a bit further...anyone else have a
suggestion as to how to do a conversion?
Thanks
TMT
Baron
Why don't you open it up and see if its got any taps on the output of
the transformer. Or if you are lucky a 220/230 volt centre tapped
primary winding.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
John Fields
---
Plenty of good designers hang out here, but you're not going to get
anywhere being a smartass.
If I were you, I'd get ahold of someone at Schumacher,
http://www.schumacherproducts.com/contact
tell them what you want to do, and see if they can't come up with a
solution for you. Or, at the very least, a schematic.
If they can't help you with anything more than a schematic and you can
post it, then do that and maybe someone from around here will help you
out.
If you can't get a schematic, you can always "reverse engineer" the
thing, post what you find, and skin the cat that way.
JF
John Fields
---
Since the boost function is only used to try to start an engine, then
figure if you want to cut the 12V down to 6 and you want to be drawing
200 amps at that time, then you might be able to just insert a 30
milliohm 1200 watt resistor between the battery and the charger.
There are power resistors available from various vendors which you could
use:
http://www.ohmite.com/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?product=powrrib_series#parts
or you could make your own out of nichrome wire.
JF
PeterD
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
See if you can get a tap on the transformer?
Jamie
It should be obvious by now, that to many want to step up to
the plate.
There are ways, but if you can't comprehend the basics of how,
would it make any difference?
And I thought this was answered once before ? Or are you just
spamming?
For starters, assuming that this unit has no voltage reliant devices
in it. install a step down 2kw transformer to drop the incoming by
half.
The price of this xformer will most doubtably change your mind on the
project.
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am not trying to be a smartass.
My apologies to anyone who thought I was.
When a question is out there for days with minimal responses, you
prompt the group for any other comments before moving on..which I did.
TMT
TMT
George Herold
>
> - Show quoted text -
OK, I kinda hate to suggest this as a solution... I'm afraid too-many-
tools will become too-few....
But, if you had a second UNCHARGED battery to put in series it could
act as the dropping resistor.
Please note the emphasis on uncharged. I'm afraid you will blow
something up!
George H.
Joe Rooney
"John Fields" <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:2ut3f5lttj9qvtjga...@4ax.com...
snip
I presume this is one of those wheel around big guys seen at repair shops
and service stations.
I take it that the 200 amp is a feature you can select to start vehicles if
you are in a big hurry and can't wait for the original battery to accept an
adequate charge.
The 6 volt battery will, for a time, swamp the 14-16 volt charging voltage
output down to the 7 or 8 volts if you hook it up as is. Better if you have
a trickle charge or lower charging current feature selection to buy yourself
more time with the 12 volt charging hook up.
You could then actuate the 200 amp feature to see if you can start the
problematic vehicle. But I wouldn't leave it on for long.
Older chargers used selenium rectifier stacks and they have a built in
current limiting (intrinsic resistance) and are very conservatively built.
Charging batteries is hazardous even with the right equipment, but unless
this is a very tiny ampere hour battery, you should be able to do it for a
minute or two before you start heating up the plates and permanently
destroying the battery and possibly the rest of the automotive electrical
system.
The suggestion about adding another 6 volt battery in series would work as
well, you would have to position it between the vehicle being charged and
hook up the positive of the vehicle battery to the negative pole of this
added battery. The positive of the added battery going to the potitive lead
of the charger.
Joe Rooney
Too_Many_Tools
Okay...I found a schematic of a similar charger that Sears sells....
Does this help?
TMT
Baron
Difficult to see but it looks to have a multiple tapped primary. It
also looks to have dual parallelled secondaries going into the
rectifier.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
John Fields
---
Of course not, since it's not the same charger.
I suggest you take the covers off your charger, take some pictures of
its guts, post them somewhere and give us a link to them.
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic is a good place.
Did you ever call Schumacher (toll-free, BTW) for help?
JF
Too_Many_Tools
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:22:31 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
>
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 4, 1:51 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 2, 2:25 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I have access to a Schumacher wheeled battery charger that is 12 v
> >> > only.
>
> >> > I want to use its boost feature (200amp) on 6 volt systems.
>
> >> > Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do both
> >> > 12v and 6v?
>
> >> > I have looked and have not found any schematics.
>
> >> > I am assuming that any mods will be downstream of the transformer.
>
> >> > Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> >> > TMT
>
> >> Let's try casting the net a bit further...anyone else have a
> >> suggestion as to how to do a conversion?
> >> Thanks
>
> >> TMT
>
> >Okay...I found a schematic of a similar charger that Sears sells....
>
>
> >Does this help?
>
> ---
> Of course not, since it's not the same charger.
>
> I suggest you take the covers off your charger, take some pictures of
> its guts, post them somewhere and give us a link to them.
>
> alt.binaries.schematics.electronic is a good place.
>
> Did you ever call Schumacher (toll-free, BTW) for help?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The schematic is a valid one...who do you think makes the Sears
charger?
TMT
John Fields
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The schematic is a valid one...who do you think makes the Sears
>charger?
---
What difference does it make?
Even if it's Schumacher there's no guarantee that the one you have is
the one the schematic is for.
Again, why don't you contact Schumacher and ask _them_ for help?
JF
Too_Many_Tools
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:55:59 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
>
> >The schematic is a valid one...who do you think makes the Sears
> >charger?
>
> ---
> What difference does it make?
>
> Even if it's Schumacher there's no guarantee that the one you have is
> the one the schematic is for.
>
> Again, why don't you contact Schumacher and ask _them_ for help?
>
> JF
I did. ;<)
As a designer, your employer would expect you to work with what is
made available to you.
You have an schematic in front of you.
If you have a design suggestion as to how to implement the requested
design change, please offer it.
If not, admit that you cannot do it.
Thanks for any positive suggestion that you can offer.
TMT
John Fields
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 8, 8:14�am, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 22:55:59 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
>>
>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >The schematic is a valid one...who do you think makes the Sears
>> >charger?
>>
>> ---
>> What difference does it make?
>>
>> Even if it's Schumacher there's no guarantee that the one you have is
>> the one the schematic is for.
>>
>> Again, why don't you contact Schumacher and ask _them_ for help?
>>
>> JF
>
>I did. ;<)
---
And???
---
>As a designer, your employer would expect you to work with what is
>made available to you.
---
Obviously not being a designer, it seems you think that product "B" can
be modified by looking at documentation from product "A" without regard
to the actual implementation of product "B".
Such is not the case and, as a designer, I would expect my employer to
supply me with documentation sufficient to accomplish the task at hand
or request that I reverse engineer the product in order to generate the
needed documentation.
---
>You have an schematic in front of you.
---
No, I don't. I have a screen telling me that no parts are available for
"that model".
---
>If you have a design suggestion as to how to implement the requested
>design change, please offer it.
---
I offered two _real_ solutions commensurate with the data you supplied.
---
>If not, admit that you cannot do it.
---
So, you're not trying to be a smart-ass, huh?
It must be inherent in your nature, then.
---
>Thanks for any positive suggestion that you can offer.
---
I suggested that you take some photos of the charger's internals and
post them so we might have a look at what's going on in there but, so
far, nothing.
If you expect help you might at least put in a little effort yourself,
yes?
JF
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, you're not trying to be a smart-ass, huh?
Thanks for playing.
TMT
John Fields
---
Figgered...
JF
Too_Many_Tools
So John...if you are a designer...and I do emphasize IF...your
behavior here indicates that you are not a team player you could be.
I have supplied you and others with sufficient info to determine a
design opinion.
Others have been able to supply information (which I do appreciate)
while you seem to be unable to.
I have also posted this same question elsewhere..and again no one else
is complaining like you are.
While I thank you for what positive comments you have offered, you may
want to reflect on why you alone seem to have a continuing problem
with a simple design consultation.
Good luck with your career and have a nice and productive day.
TMT
John Fields
---
You mean you dislike the fact that I criticized your attitude?
As far as I'm concerned you _are_ a smartass and you also seem to be a
troll trying to foment discord with your entry level slurs.
And, yes, I'm not a team player; I run a solo act.
---
>I have supplied you and others with sufficient info to determine a
>design opinion.
---
In your opinion, but you're certainly no designer, so how would you
know?
You haven't even, for example, replied to the query as to whether or not
you have a transformer with a dual or a center-tapped primary, which is
crucial information for designers
---
>Others have been able to supply information (which I do appreciate)
>while you seem to be unable to.
---
If you think I haven't, then you either have a very short attention span
or you have rather limited reading skills, since I suggested a resistive
voltage-dropper, contacting the charger manufacturer, (which you said
you did, but never replied to the group with what you found out) and
photographing the internals of your charger and posting the pics, which
you never did either.
---
>I have also posted this same question elsewhere..and again no one else
>is complaining like you are.
---
I think they're mostly ignoring your little epithets. As a matter of
course, I choose not to.
---
>While I thank you for what positive comments you have offered, you may
>want to reflect on why you alone seem to have a continuing problem
>with a simple design consultation.
---
LOL, if you think this is a design consultation you're the one with the
problem.
---
>Good luck with your career and have a nice and productive day.
---
Piss off...
JF
Too_Many_Tools
Thanks again for confirming my assessment of your capabilities. ;<)
TMT
John Fields
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks again for confirming my assessment of your capabilities. ;<)
---
Since your point of view is clouded by cataracts of ignorance, your
"assessment" is immaterial.
JF
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
> I have access to a Schumacher wheeled battery charger that is 12 v
> only.
>
> I want to use its boost feature (200amp) on 6 volt systems.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do both
> 12v and 6v?
>
> I have looked and have not found any schematics.
>
> I am assuming that any mods will be downstream of the transformer.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> TMT
Probably upstream's easier--anything downstream will have to handle
300A. (That transformer's a beast.)
From the wiring diagram you posted later in this thread, the circuit
is just a transformer driving a half-wave rectifier, piped straight to
the battery. The charger's power-selection switches choose one of
several primary taps, varying the output voltage. Four paralleled
secondary windings drive two heat-sink-mounted power rectifiers.
That' s it.
So, for 6v, run it off a 2kW step-down transformer.
What are the voltage outputs on the various power settings?
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
Baron
If it has two or more parallelled primary windings put them in series to
reduce the output voltage by half. Though looking at that circuit
diagram, its not clear if thats the case.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
dagmarg...@yahoo.com
> dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> >> I want to use [200 A 12V charger] on 6 volt systems.
>
> >> Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do
> >> both 12v and 6v?
> >> I am assuming that any mods will be downstream of the transformer.
> > Probably upstream's easier--anything downstream will have to handle
> > 300A. (That transformer's a beast.)
>
> > From the wiring diagram you posted later in this thread, the circuit
> > is just a transformer driving a half-wave rectifier, piped straight to
> > the battery. The charger's power-selection switches choose one of
> > several primary taps, varying the output voltage. Four paralleled
> > secondary windings drive two heat-sink-mounted power rectifiers.
> > That' s it.
>
> > So, for 6v, run it off a 2kW step-down transformer.
>
> > What are the voltage outputs on the various power settings?
> If it has two or more parallelled primary windings put them in series to
> reduce the output voltage by half. Though looking at that circuit
> diagram, its not clear if thats the case.
Not the case. The print's fuzzy, but there aren't enough switches &
jumpers in the diagram to handle two primaries with two taps (four
total leads) each.
I asked about the voltages 'cause, at a minimum, you'd want to set it
on the lowest voltage.
--
Cheers,
James Arthur
Baron
Bob Monsen
> On Nov 2, 2:25�pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I have access to a Schumacher wheeled battery charger that is 12 v
>> only.
>>
>> I want to use its boost feature (200amp) on 6 volt systems.
>>
Use it to charge two 6 volt batteries in series?
>> Any suggestions as to how to make a mod where the charger will do both
>> 12v and 6v?
>>
>> I have looked and have not found any schematics.
>>
>> I am assuming that any mods will be downstream of the transformer.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> TMT
>