Magnetic disturbance

[Jamie]

Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.

It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
in the passed.

The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
finally cleared up..

All these machines are independent of each other..

Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Jamie

[lang...@fonz.dk]

On 27 Okt., 00:43, Jamie

how sensitve is it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm ?

-Lasse

[Dave Platt]

In article <nmEis.2752$lD4....@newsfe24.iad>,

Jamie <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

> The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
>we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>finally cleared up..
>
> All these machines are independent of each other..
>
> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Well, we are getting on towards the solar maximum of the current solar
cycle, although it continues to look as if this is going to be a
relatively modest solar-max. There have been a number of significant
solar flares in the past few months, and I've heard anectodal reports
of coronal mass ejections and the resulting geomagnetic storms which
were strong enough to trigger some significant auroral activity.

If you've been keeping records as to when these steering disruptions
have occurred, you could compare them with the geomagnetic-monitor
summaries of the planetary K index. If they seem to line up with
periods when the K index is 5 or above, then it's entirely possible
that your beams are "feeling" geomagnetic variations due to a big
cloud of plasma hitting the ionosphere after a CME.

ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/GEOMAGNETIC_DATA/INDICES/KP_AP/ has the K
index data, down to a 3-hour resolution.

For an interesting read, look up the great Carrington solar flare of
1859, and the resulting geomagnetic storm, and then consider the
probable effect on our modern civilization of another storm of this
magnitude.

--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Martin Riddle]

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
message news:nmEis.2752$lD4....@newsfe24.iad...

Does this help, er match up with your distrubance? It's a CME
prediction model.
<http://solarham.net/cmewatch2.htm>

Cheers

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "

** FFS - wot a pathetic wanker!!!

Do your own fucking testing.

Eg:

1. A compass needle will respond to static variations in the local magnetic
field.

2. The trace on an analogue scope also responds to the local magnetic
field, be it static or otherwise - budget scopes have CRTs with no mag
shields.



.... Phil

[Jamie]

I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
getting an Agilent.

As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors
and that went very screwy.

Jamie

[Jamie]

Interesting site, looks like a good candidate for an application that
could read and display those numbers graphically with a geological plot.

I book marked it, thanks.

Jamie

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie" <= Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "
>>

>> ** FFS - wot a pathetic wanker!!!
>>
>> Do your own fucking testing.
>>
>> Eg:
>>
>> 1. A compass needle will respond to static variations in the local
>> magnetic field.
>>
>> 2. The trace on an analogue scope also responds to the local magnetic
>> field, be it static or otherwise - budget scopes have CRTs with no mag
>> shields.
>>
>
> I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's,

** You are pig ignorant, shithead.

> As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
> that went very screwy.

** There is no point in giving a bullshitting cunt like you any kind of
advice.

FOAD.



.... Phil

[Jamie]

Which only means you don't know what I am talking about, that's fine,
I wouldn't expect it from a down under.

I understand the branches on the trees down there don't spread out
much and kangaroos are in season.

Jamie

[Phil Allison]

"Jamie" = Radio Ham Jerkoff " Maynard A. Philbrook "
>
>>
>>>>** FFS - wot a pathetic wanker!!!
>>>>
>>>>Do your own fucking testing.
>>>>
>>>>Eg:
>>>>
>>>>1. A compass needle will respond to static variations in the local
>>>>magnetic field.
>>>>
>>>>2. The trace on an analogue scope also responds to the local magnetic
>>>>field, be it static or otherwise - budget scopes have CRTs with no mag
>>>>shields.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's,
>>
>>
>>
>> ** You are pig ignorant, shithead.
>>
>>
>>> As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
>>> that went very screwy.
>>
>>
>>
>> ** There is no point in giving a bullshitting cunt like you any kind of
>> advice.
>>
>> FOAD.
>>
>

> Which only means you don't know what I am talking about,

** YOU do not know what YOU are BULLSHITING about !!!!!!!

Same for thousands of your utterly mindless posts on usenet.

All completely full of irrational SHIT !!!!

FOAD you stinking pile of autistic, sub human garbage.




.... Phil

[Robert Baer]

** Copy of previous posting elsewhere **

Err...What about the possibility of an extremely nasty solar flare
storm - one that can literally fry all satellite electronics, and zap
almost all ground-based electronics?
Refs:
1) EE Times Sep 17,2012 pp 20-22 "Girding for the next 'solar max' "
2) Science Fact article in Analog SF&F Nov 2012 pp21-27 "The Day the Sun
Exploded".

Could be serious enough to totally crash all banking in the
world,leaving the "Third World" nations in a superior position.

[Robert Baer]

??350hz?? Rather oddball powerline frequency..

[Gib Bogle]

Seek psychiatric help.

[Phil Allison]

"Gib Bogle" = ASD fucked MORON


** Get cancer and die -

you vile, TROLLING CUNTHEAD

[Gib Bogle]

I'm serious. You are bad for yourself and for people around you.

[Phil Allison]

"Gib Bogle" = trolling ASD fucked MORON !!!

>
>>
>> ** Get cancer and die -
>>
>> you vile, TROLLING CUNTHEAD
>
> I'm serious.

** A serious lump of fucking shit is what you are - shithead.

Retarded, autistic, genetic scum like you will all be compulsorily aborted
in the future.

It cannot come soon enough for me.

Meanwhile, get bowel cancer and DIE !!

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
<nmEis.2752$lD4....@newsfe24.iad>:

The old dirty trick was somebody walking in with one of them super-magnets.
Magnetic stripe cards erased, CRT monitors changing color...
I do not think there is a natural magnetic effect that big,
unless you are located over an underground railway (tube).

Mains fluctuations?

[Martin Brown]

They are. Or rather the planet has a pretty huge magnet inside it and
the solar wind can buffet it enough to cause trouble for sensitive gear.
More so in the US and Canada than in Europe since magnetic North is on
your side of the planet.

Any geomagnetic record for your neck of the woods would show if it was
from a CME event. This one goes back a few days

http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

Place to look next time it happens.

You might want to make a simple magnetic disturbance monitor to
determine independent of your kit if there is a magnetic storm.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Phil Allison]

"Martin Brown"

>
> You might want to make a simple magnetic disturbance monitor to determine
> independent of your kit if there is a magnetic storm.
>

** Thanks Martin.

Despite the OP's staggering lack of insight, the motive for my two
suggestions re the magnetic compass and simple CRT type scope was the very
same idea.

I also suspect the notion alluded to in the heading is pure hogwash.



.... Phil

[Martin Brown]

On 27/10/2012 09:34, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
> <nmEis.2752$lD4....@newsfe24.iad>:
>

>> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>> ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>
>

> The old dirty trick was somebody walking in with one of them super-magnets.

Rubbish. Dipole field falls off as 1/r^3.

They are not all that powerful at a distance. At least up to the sizes
used for magnetic clamps. You don't want one in a pocket though. I
became attached to a supermarket checkout till once after someone put
one in one of my pockets. They will nip flesh rather painfully - big
ones destructively. Didn't harm my bank card at all.

Superconducting NMR magnets are in a different league altogether. I know
of one where the outer shell has a dent from snatching the end of a
passing scaffold pole from outside the building.

> Magnetic stripe cards erased, CRT monitors changing color...
> I do not think there is a natural magnetic effect that big,
> unless you are located over an underground railway (tube).

Again you have to be quite close to magnetise the screen and any damage
is fairly local. The one thing I found did zap bank cards was the
initial power on degauss coils of big reference colour monitors in the
old days if you were leaning over or working on them at switch on.

There was a hefty boing noise from the coils responding to the degauss
waveform. That really did for bank cards if you forgot.
>
> Mains fluctuations?

Trams? Large arc welding kit nearby.
Seen that destroy some early CNC kit after the machine went beserk.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Mac Decman]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 13:47:19 +0100, Martin Brown
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 27/10/2012 09:34, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie
>> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
>> <nmEis.2752$lD4....@newsfe24.iad>:
>>

(snip)

>
>Again you have to be quite close to magnetise the screen and any damage
>is fairly local. The one thing I found did zap bank cards was the
>initial power on degauss coils of big reference colour monitors in the
>old days if you were leaning over or working on them at switch on.
>
>There was a hefty boing noise from the coils responding to the degauss
>waveform. That really did for bank cards if you forgot.
>>

Our magnetizer at work will erase those club discount cards that
stores give out if you stand within a few feet of it. I think it
makes a 1.3T pulse 150ms long with a coil ID of 8 inches. Never had
any credit cards get erased though.

Mark DeArman

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 26, 3:43 pm, Jamie

solar flares cause massive disturbances to the earth's magnetic field.

Take a look at the Noise Floor of the Earth's Field:
<http://www.vlf.it/naturalnoisefloor/naturalnoisefloor.htm>
the field noise data cmoes ffrom actual meaurments of sites
From paper, here is its bibliography:

1. E.L. Maxwell and D.L. Stone, "Natural Noise Fields 1cps to 100kc",
IEEE Transactions on Antennas an Propagation, Volume AP-11, Number 3,
pp 339-43, May 1963.
2_ D.A. Chrissan, A.C. Fraser-Smith, Seasonal Variations of Globally
Measured ELF/VLF Radio Noise, Technical Report D177-1, Stanford
University Dept of Electrical Engineering, STAR Lab, December 1996.
3_ R. Barr, D. Llanwyn Jones, C.J. Rodger, "ELF and VLF radio waves",
Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics, Volume 62, Issue
18, pp 1689-1718, November 2000.
4_ Kenneth Davies, Chapter 9, Propagation of Low and Very Low
Frequency Waves, Ionospheric Radio Propagation, New York, N.Y., Dover
Publications, Inc., 1966.
5_ M. Balser and C.A. Wagner, "Observations of Earth-ionosphere cavity
resonances", Nature, Volume 188, pp 638-41, 1960

Magnetic fields are insidious, once created you can't destroy them,
simply redirect them. And, low frequency are the worst, because they
penetrate EVERYTHING! Using mumetal can get expensive, and if not done
properly can easily exacerbate the problem by 'sucking' in magnetic
fields and actually intensifying them locally, so even that type of
shielding must be done carefully.

from those charts:
at 1 Hz the noise spectral density is 'normally' 1pT/rtHz, and it has
a 1/f distribution [I think]
at 0.01Hz it has climbed to over 1nT/rtHz.

If your e-beams are low speed, circa 10-20kV and the run path is long,
it doesn't take much field to deflect the beam over 100nm down at the
target, which in today's geometries is HUGE!

Has anybody produced the calculations for you? It should be part of
your equipment's performance spec - specifying the operating ambient
fields that are allowed. Then it'sup to you to prove your fields are
less than that.

Anyway, the number in those charts is 'average' which means during
solar storms it can easily go above 10X that value - for days! and
even into the 100X for short periods.

Do you have ambient magnetic field instrumentation monitoring the
fields? They are purchaseable items.

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 26, 7:08 pm, Jamie

You have to find the frequency values of the disturbance, could be
related to a bad AC mains return cable going intermittent on you.
Those fields can get into the 100's of microTesla ranges and THAT will
deflect even an old monitor's traces.

[Robert Macy]

Just thought of something, our satellite reception went wonky the
other night/day? during 'good' weather. The satellite company claims
moisture in the air during a rainstorm reduces the uWave signal and
you get signal breaking up. We got signal breaking up but the weather
here was SUNNY and clear! Anybody else experience that? Maybe we can
correlate the disturbances we saw to what happened to Jamie.

[hifi-tek]

"Robert Baer" <rober...@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:jAIis.323$ND1...@newsfe08.iad...

3 db response point? :-)

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 27, 1:34 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie

> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in
> <nmEis.2752$lD4.2...@newsfe24.iad>:

I once took one of those super space magnets [so strong they can make
a Canadian dime stand on its edge through your hand] and held it close
to my old [favorite] monitor and wow what great color changes. only to
find the effects became permanent! not even ON/OFF cycling did a
thing. Then I remembered how energetic the fields from my cheap pencil
sharpener were, held it close to the screen, sharpened a pencil, and
voila! degaussed the nickel layer on the monitor making the color
better than before! whew! I was very looky I didn't permanently bend
or break that film, too.

[John S]

I got myself into the same situation years ago. I finally thought to use
my big Weller soldering gun as a degausser.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:37:06 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert Macy
<robert...@gmail.com> wrote in
<b45b4d61-29b6-4147...@b15g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>:

>On Oct 27, 1:34 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie
>> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in
>> <nmEis.2752$lD4.2...@newsfe24.iad>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >  Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
>> >with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
>> >enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>>
>> >  It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
>> >alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
>> >the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
>> >the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
>> >are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
>> >in the passed.
>>
>> >  The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
>> >we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>> >finally cleared up..
>>
>> >   All these machines are independent of each other..
>>

>> >  Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in =

>the
>> >ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> >  hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>
>> >Jamie
>>

>> The old dirty trick was somebody walking in with one of them super-magnet=

>s.
>> Magnetic stripe cards erased, CRT monitors changing color...
>> I do not think there is a natural magnetic effect that big,
>> unless you are located over an underground railway (tube).
>>
>> Mains fluctuations?
>
>I once took one of those super space magnets [so strong they can make
>a Canadian dime stand on its edge through your hand] and held it close
>to my old [favorite] monitor and wow what great color changes. only to
>find the effects became permanent! not even ON/OFF cycling did a
>thing.

You have to switch them off, and let them cool for a while.
The degaussing coil is fed by some PTC / thermistor.

>Then I remembered how energetic the fields from my cheap pencil
>sharpener were, held it close to the screen, sharpened a pencil, and
>voila! degaussed the nickel layer on the monitor making the color
>better than before! whew! I was very looky I didn't permanently bend
>or break that film, too.

Shadow mask, I once dropped a color set, mask permanently bended,
no way could you get purity back.

I had a real degausing coil in the shop, huge coil, circle in front of the screen.
slowly move away, directly fed from main.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Oct 2012 08:32:28 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert Macy
<robert...@gmail.com> wrote in
<1a4a3ecc-6307-4569...@b6g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>:

>On Oct 26, 8:26 pm, Robert Baer <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:
>> Jamie wrote:
>> > Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
>> > with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
>> > enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>>
>> > It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
>> > alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
>> > the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
>> > the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
>> > are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
>> > in the passed.
>>
>> > The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because we
>> > kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>> > finally cleared up..
>>
>> > All these machines are independent of each other..
>>
>> > Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the

>> > ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one wa=

>s
>> > hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>
>> > Jamie
>>
>>    **  Copy of previous posting elsewhere **
>>
>>    Err...What about the possibility of an extremely nasty solar flare
>> storm - one that can literally fry all satellite electronics, and zap
>> almost all ground-based electronics?
>>    Refs:
>> 1) EE Times Sep 17,2012 pp 20-22 "Girding for the next 'solar max' "
>> 2) Science Fact article in Analog SF&F Nov 2012 pp21-27 "The Day the Sun
>> Exploded".
>>
>>    Could be serious enough to totally crash all banking in the
>> world,leaving the "Third World" nations in a superior position.
>
>Just thought of something, our satellite reception went wonky the
>other night/day? during 'good' weather. The satellite company claims
>moisture in the air during a rainstorm reduces the uWave signal and
>you get signal breaking up. We got signal breaking up but the weather
>here was SUNNY and clear! Anybody else experience that? Maybe we can
>correlate the disturbances we saw to what happened to Jamie.

You can break the sat signal by running some machine that sparks,
say DC electric motor.
I have had total loss of signal when a thunder cloud passed between satellite and my dish,
while it was still sunny here (online rain radar show it).
I am just recording starwars in HD from sat now:
http://panteltje.com/pub/recording-hd.gif
Should be finished by now, another 11 GB (inclusive commercials):
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11423326208 Oct 27 18:38 Astra2_ITV1_HD.16h13.27-10-2012-162m.ts
Rarely goes wrong, DVB-S2, QPSK, free to air...
As long as bit errors shows zero the recording is perfect, it logs
all errors to an error log.
Important for editing (the commercials out).
Linux, the advantage of writing your own soft is that you know what you are doing.
(Else it won't work).

[Mr Stonebeach]

On Oct 27, 3:47 pm, Martin Brown <|||newspam...@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> Superconducting NMR magnets are in a different league altogether. I know
> of one where the outer shell has a dent from snatching the end of a
> passing scaffold pole from outside the building.

Indeed. A colleaque of mine from Uni Genova told once how his
CRT computer screen bent and distorted like the clocks in the
"Persistence of Memory" every now and then, at the time his office
was above the big hall where some large magnets were tested. I think
those magnets were sections going to the Compact Muon Solenoid.

Regards,
Mikko

[Gib Bogle]

Oh dear. A severe case of coprolalia. This must really complicate your
life. You should do something about it before you get old.

[Bill Sloman]

On Oct 28, 2:23 am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 3:43 pm, Jamie
>
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> >   Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
> > with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
> > enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>
> >   It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
> > alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
> > the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
> > the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
> > are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
> > in the passed.
>
> >   The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
> > we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
> > finally cleared up..
>
> >    All these machines are independent of each other..
>
> >   Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
> > ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> >   hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>

> solar flares cause massive disturbances to the earth's magnetic field.

<snip>

> If your e-beams are low speed, circa 10-20kV and the run path is long,
> it doesn't take much field to deflect the beam over 100nm down at the
> target, which in today's geometries is HUGE!

It can be worse. In the 1980's Cambridge Instruments sold an electron
beam microfabricator to GE in the US, to a lab on the east coast. The
installation was doing fine until it came to final acceptanace tests,
when the patterns being written onto the silicon wafters started
showing intermittent step shifts of about half a micron - 500nm - and
nobody could work out why.

In a final desperate attempt to solve the problem our senior engineer
was flown over to America. He was a technology history buff and was
impressed when he got to the GE lab - it was an old building, and the
lift they used to get him up the electron beam microfabricator on the
first floor was a real antique, dating back perhaps 100 years, which
relied on hydraulic pressure to go up and down.

The cylinder which formed the floor of the lift was a very large
chunk of magnetic iron. When the lift was at the first floor, it
changed the magnetic field at the electron beam microfabricator enough
to shift the beam on the specimen by 500nm.

The solution to the problem was not to allow the lift to move while a
pattern was being written. The electron beam microfabricator sold for
a couple of million dollars, so there was quite a lot of money hanging
on the correct diagnosis.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[rickman]

On 10/27/2012 12:31 AM, Robert Baer wrote:

> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
>> scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
>> our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
>> getting an Agilent.
>>
>> As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
>> that went very screwy.
>>
>> Jamie
>>
> ??350hz?? Rather oddball powerline frequency..

Maybe it's on an airplane and the generator is running a bit slow...?

Rick

[Phil Allison]

[Jamie]

I was in work today and spent about 2 hours zeroing the sensor array
around each vault to get proper readings at the computer. What ever
happen the other day sort of corrected it self as for the E-Beam,
but the sensor array we have hanging around each vault did not fully
come back into zero alignment for what ever reason.

The sensors are something we constructed as a way to detect the
surroundings with in the critical areas of the E-beam to keep people,
metal objects and equipment from being place in proximity of the vault.

If you disturb the area around too much in the area where the E-beam
is housed, it will cause the beam to steer off and if bad enough cause
heating in the aperture, which isn't a good thing because it can also
cause .001" thick titanium window to heat unevenly and thus start a leak.

Heating of the aperture can propagate up the drift tube and bellows
which all have gaskets that leak when slightly aggravated.

So, we try to force the system to shut down at the slightest hiccup so
there won't be hours or lost time and repair work.

Jamie

[Jamie]

It's quit obvious I meant Mhz, but you guys can play all you wish :)

And btw, is any one having issues when posting not reading ? It seems
lately if I post a message either a replay or new post, my ISP or who
ever is not responding and it times out, however, If I post message very
soon after I down load them, it seems that it goes through. It's almost
like they are putting me to sleep for uplinks?

The message I get is "There is no response from the news server, check
name, pass word etc."

When this happens, if I hit the send again, then most of the time it'll
work, but some times it may do a time out again.. It's very frustrating
because this software does not seem to have parameter to set the time ou
t to a much shorter wait.

I suppose I should be using a newer reader instead of this dinosaur.

Jamie

[Joerg]

Jamie wrote:
> Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
> with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
> enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>
> It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
> alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
> the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
> the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
> are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
> in the passed.
>
> The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because we
> kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
> finally cleared up..
>
> All these machines are independent of each other..
>
> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
> ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>

Do all of your employees know about the fact that they should not have
anything magnetic on them? I mean all, includings secretaries, janitor
crews, etc.

Reason I say that is that there are people who believe that slapping
magnetic patches onto aching joints or other body areas has a healing
effect.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[Jamie]

The education and common sense level of those that apply for jobs
these days are amazingly low. But we need to have business as usual.

There is generally no problem with those that operate the equipment,
it's those that aren't usually in that area, like material handers,
brain dead salary, people on tour and the general no nothing grease
monkeys and contractors.

The best one's are the truck drivers when they drop a load or back
straight into a vault wall. Cracks in the containment walls are not
generally a good thing.

Jamie

[rickman]

On 10/27/2012 8:19 PM, Jamie wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>
>> On 10/27/2012 12:31 AM, Robert Baer wrote:
>>
>>> Jamie wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't know about budget scopes with CRT's, we only have one CRT
>>>> scope and that is at home base and it's a Tek 350hz model. The rest of
>>>> our scopes are all TFT/LCD, Regol, Tek and Lecroy and thinking about
>>>> getting an Agilent.
>>>>
>>>> As for the compass needle, We use a flux differential array sensors and
>>>> that went very screwy.
>>>>
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>> ??350hz?? Rather oddball powerline frequency..
>>
>>
>> Maybe it's on an airplane and the generator is running a bit slow...?
>>
>> Rick
> It's quit obvious I meant Mhz, but you guys can play all you wish :)

Yes, in fact, I read MHz without noticing the typo until hifi-tek
posted. I just couldn't resist... lol

What is really bizarre is the response you got from that one guy. WOW!
I hope I never meet him in person.

> And btw, is any one having issues when posting not reading ? It seems
> lately if I post a message either a replay or new post, my ISP or who
> ever is not responding and it times out, however, If I post message very
> soon after I down load them, it seems that it goes through. It's almost
> like they are putting me to sleep for uplinks?
>
> The message I get is "There is no response from the news server, check
> name, pass word etc."
>
> When this happens, if I hit the send again, then most of the time it'll
> work, but some times it may do a time out again.. It's very frustrating
> because this software does not seem to have parameter to set the time ou
> t to a much shorter wait.
>
> I suppose I should be using a newer reader instead of this dinosaur.
>
> Jamie

Is it a short term thing or has this been going on for a while?

Rick

[rickman]

On 10/27/2012 9:08 PM, Joerg wrote:

> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>> ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>
>
> Do all of your employees know about the fact that they should not have
> anything magnetic on them? I mean all, includings secretaries, janitor
> crews, etc.
>
> Reason I say that is that there are people who believe that slapping
> magnetic patches onto aching joints or other body areas has a healing
> effect.

The magnets they use for that are usually the rubber, refrigerator type
that are barely magnetic. I can't imagine they will mess up this
equipment unless they are pretty close to it. I assume the vault itself
has restricted access.

One of my friends used to sell magnets for health. She claimed that she
cured people with them and truly believed in them. They cost a lot of
bucks too and were pretty worthless magnets. It is amazing how easy it
is to fool otherwise intelligent people with a little techno-babble.

Rick

[Jamie]

it's been going on for a while now. I thought it could of been my
network in my house popping up errors but I don't seem to have any
problems with mail or browsing? It's possible the non-tcp protocols
are getting lost due to errors on my end, who knows..

Jamie

[Bill Sloman]

Read up on the placebo effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jamie wrote:
>
> 'the general no nothing grease monkeys'.


Oh, the irony!

[Gib Bogle]

No nothing not never nohow.

[Gib Bogle]

On 28/10/2012 2:41 p.m., rickman wrote:

> One of my friends used to sell magnets for health. She claimed that she
> cured people with them and truly believed in them. They cost a lot of
> bucks too and were pretty worthless magnets. It is amazing how easy it
> is to fool otherwise intelligent people with a little techno-babble.
>
> Rick

Relatively benign quackery, like homeopathy, in that it does nothing at all.

[Martin Brown]

It is quite common these days at busy times for overworked and under
resourced newservers to respond with go away or not at all.

ISPs can't make money off Usenet and NNTP is expensive in resources.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[legg]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

> Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
>with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
>enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>
> It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
>alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
>the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
>the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
>are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
>in the passed.
>
> The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
>we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>finally cleared up..
>
> All these machines are independent of each other..
>

> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>

There are many ways to carry out a beam scanning function, so this
isn't really a good way to describe the nature of the victim
equipment. Is it microwave radar, laser, atomic particle - what type
of beam technology is being disturbed?

The different units may be independant, but they will still share
power and probably communications. If they are directed at the same
target, this is also a common factor. If they run on the same
software/firmware revision, in the same time zone, that's also a
commonality. The longer-term effects suggest SW that is not
particularly error tolerant.

If the 'flux differential array sensors' that went screwy at the same
time were indeed multiple and independent of the misbehaving
equipment, then it might mean something. If they're just parts of the
misbehaving equipment, their output is meaningless.

RL

[Michael A. Terrell]

How does a no nothing become a general?

[Spehro Pefhany]

You have to understand how homeopathy works:-

http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

[WarmUnderbelly]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 10:54:06 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:48:24 +1300, the renowned Gib Bogle
><g.b...@too.auckland.much.ac.spam.nz> wrote:
>
>>On 28/10/2012 2:41 p.m., rickman wrote:
>>
>>> One of my friends used to sell magnets for health. She claimed that she
>>> cured people with them and truly believed in them. They cost a lot of
>>> bucks too and were pretty worthless magnets. It is amazing how easy it
>>> is to fool otherwise intelligent people with a little techno-babble.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>
>>Relatively benign quackery, like homeopathy, in that it does nothing at all.
>
>You have to understand how homeopathy works:-
>
>http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>Spehro Pefhany

Do you know why some golfers wore Copper bracelets decades ago?

[Jamie]

If you don't know what an E-Beam is, then I won't bother.

Jamie

[John S]

To make themselves "attractive"?

[Robert Macy]

now for the 'non-scientific' answer.

ANY device that constantly reminds the wearer will have a positive
effect.

so magent, copper, woven seaweed, doesn't matter what it's made of.
Just the fact that the wearer is constantly reminded will produce
positive 'anecdotal' information.

[Joerg]

IMHO the best diagnostic avenue is a makeshift "magnetic pulse catcher".
Could be made with a scope that triggers upon exceeding a prescribed
good-bad band. The Instek GDS-series has that, at least my GDS-2204
does. In this case meaning it'll trigger when the normally flat
horizontal line wiggles either way. Hang a loop with burden resistor
onto it and wait until the next event. There would be a recording
afterwards. The shape of the pulse should give some good pointers of
what it could be. For example, if you see a brief burst of 60Hz cycles
you'd know :-)

Just a thought, in case you guys haven't purged the facility of larger
CRT monitors: Those have degaussing coils. Some come on every time their
power is cycled, others come on at random. Fridge de-icing loops can
also cause some grief because sometimes they consist of a somewhat
resistive wire run around its door frame, meaning a loop many feet in
diameter.

[Martin Brown]

You enjoy talking in riddles it seems.

Difficult to comment sensibly without knowing what sensor technology you
are using and whether or not active shielding is involved.

One possibility is that one of your machines is going haywire and taking
the rest down. Or you are being affected by externally sourced radio
frequency interference that is wrecking the beam steering.

> The sensors are something we constructed as a way to detect the
> surroundings with in the critical areas of the E-beam to keep people,
> metal objects and equipment from being place in proximity of the vault.

I presume the application is electron beam lithography but it would make
it a lot easier if you clarified this. Synchrotron radiation sources
also use electron beams as a means to an end.

> If you disturb the area around too much in the area where the E-beam
> is housed, it will cause the beam to steer off and if bad enough cause
> heating in the aperture, which isn't a good thing because it can also
> cause .001" thick titanium window to heat unevenly and thus start a leak.
>
> Heating of the aperture can propagate up the drift tube and bellows
> which all have gaskets that leak when slightly aggravated.
>
> So, we try to force the system to shut down at the slightest hiccup so
> there won't be hours or lost time and repair work.

Why are you so coy about describing what sort of kit it is?

An academic institution would by now have a simple crude primitive
magnetic field disturbance detector knocked up out of fishing line a
mirror and a magnet. Laser pointed at the mirror and the whole assembly
protected from drafts with a glass tube. Simples.

http://www.heliophysical.org.uk/files/5.pdf

Sophisticated gear can have complicated modes of failure. At present you
have no idea what caused your stuff to go AWOL and the way you are going
you will be every bit as mystified the next time it happens too.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Jamie wrote:

> Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
> with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
> enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>
> It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
> alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
> the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
> the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
> are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
> in the passed.
>
> The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
> we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
> finally cleared up..
>
> All these machines are independent of each other..
>
> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
> ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>

> Jamie

Where are you located (part of the world, building occupancy type, etc.)?

Could be geomagnetic, or some guy next door doing some welding.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not interfere in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy and tasty with barbecue sauce.

[Jamie]

We have inductive loops attached to the walls, spaced closely to form
an array. These loops are all driving via Atmega processors to generate
a pulse and fast compactors attached to the inputs.

They daisy chain together and the end unit will connect via serial to
the PC.

The program in each does not generate its own ID however, the values
for each zone are appended to a packet and the size of the packet and
CRC are recalculated. We have an input assigned to the uC indicating
it is the first unit via jumper, so it'll start TXing immediately and
the others will wait for a packet to arrive and then send it to the
next, etc.

The first unit will pause sending for the maximum time it would take
all 16 devices to send if they were implemented or if some error
resulted in the link some how.

With this kind of configuration, you are able to see moving objects as
they pass by the wall.

We don't use a BFO method because it is far to unstable but found that
using time constant on L works very well. The mosfet switches are used
to energize the coils. THe gate is driven via a bjt from the uC for the
on state and for the off state a pull down R is present at the gate to
allow for a slow turn off, we did this to avoid the wheeling voltages
and not use diodes, so far it seems to work


I use the atmega due to high IO count, so each uC can accumulate many
zones which will keep the lag down.

Also to add to that, when sampling in the group of IO's we need to
stagger loops, meaning, we can't energize a loop adjacent for obvious
reasons.

There are other little details we do with this system but I won't get
into that.
Jamie

[Jamie]

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

> Jamie wrote:
>
>
>> Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
>>with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
>>enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>>
>> It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
>>alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
>>the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
>>the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
>>are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
>>in the passed.
>>
>> The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
>>we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>>finally cleared up..
>>
>> All these machines are independent of each other..
>>
>> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>
>>Jamie
>
>
> Where are you located (part of the world, building occupancy type, etc.)?
>
> Could be geomagnetic, or some guy next door doing some welding.
>

The E-beam processing is far from any form of known electrical
disturbance and it's housed in its own building attached to the main
structure..

Long before I was there, it was required it had to be built on a
cement slab to insure nothing below it was there. In the main building
we have transformer vaults but nothing goes under this building for the
E-Beam. Also it had something to do with environmental laws.

We are located in the center of CT, Northeast US.. I know Maine just
recently had an earth quake but as for as I know, we had no issues with
that here. Actually, the only think that happen was my dog getting
scared of something at the time it happen and insisted she had to come
in. I let her in and I noticed her tail was between her legs, she was
afraid of something, I had no idea what it was at the time.

There was reports of ground shakes, I didn't feel anything myself,
most likely too wrapped up with other things :0

Jamie

[rickman]

It's not benign when it sucks money out of people's pockets. She loaned
me a six inch square pad to try on my back, she *insisted* in fact, and
when it didn't work she really wanted it back as it cost $100!

More recently she moved to the Sedona, AZ area and I don't see much of
her. She may be a wacko, but I might visit her some day.

Rick

[legg]

A hit! Everything's going dark. Mammy!

RL

[legg]

Kaff...kaff..kaaaaffff...

RL

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Perhaps someone is entering an EM railgun into the annual pumpkin chucking
contest.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

What if no one ever asked a hypothetical question?

[Jamie]

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

> Perhaps someone is entering an EM railgun into the annual pumpkin chucking
> contest.
>

Ha, quit.

It does not take much to whack out the system from the top side of
the vault, it's not protected that well and is cordoned off when in
operation.

I suppose some atmospheric abnormally could disrupt it. I know near
by strikes from
T showers does nothing to it, at least not enough for it to get
spassed out.

Talking about pumpkins, I stopped at a place today and got talking to
the clerk and he mention how he has this young labrador mix, he let him
out side for a bit and the lab chewed up half of the pumpkin he put the
the steps.. So any one that has dogs, beware, I guess some of them like
pumpkins.


Jamie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> hanging a large magnet over our plant.

Try downloading data from the USGS National Geomagnetism Program at:
<http://geomag.usgs.gov>
Skimming the various strip chart graphs shows some rather radical
short term variations. Where are you and what was the date and time
of the event so I can play with the numbers? Looks like the real time
graphs only go back 4 days.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Phil Allison]

"Martin Brown"

Jamie wrote:
>>>
>>> You might want to make a simple magnetic disturbance monitor to
>>> determine independent of your kit if there is a magnetic storm.
>>>
>>>
>> I was in work today and spent about 2 hours zeroing the sensor array
>> around each vault to get proper readings at the computer. What ever
>> happen the other day sort of corrected it self as for the E-Beam,
>> but the sensor array we have hanging around each vault did not fully
>> come back into zero alignment for what ever reason.
>
> You enjoy talking in riddles it seems.

** Jaime is a fake name, the guy is " Maynard A. Philbrook" - a radio ham -
his call sign is KA1LPA .

He is an utter idiot and an egomaniac.

He haunts usenet purely to BIG NOTE himself.

> Why are you so coy about describing what sort of kit it is?

** So he can keep control over the discussion, same as any troll does.

You sound like smart guy, stop wasting your time with the idiot.


.... Phil

[Jamie]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400, Jamie
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>
>
> Try downloading data from the USGS National Geomagnetism Program at:
> <http://geomag.usgs.gov>
> Skimming the various strip chart graphs shows some rather radical
> short term variations. Where are you and what was the date and time
> of the event so I can play with the numbers? Looks like the real time
> graphs only go back 4 days.
>

This happen in the middle of last week.. and I did check one of those
sites. As best as I understood it, it does look like some red hot spot
was over our area just about at that time. That is, if I read the image
and data correctly.

It's really weird and not the first time this has happen.

But, can't let that get in our way, even though it force a lot of work
on the machine operators to pull back the product they were running
though it to make sure it got a proper dose. Some of the products run
through it takes 2 people just to pick up one end.

Jamie

[Jamie]

Phil, you're embarrassing yourself, again..

The offer is still open to come to the states for some good drugs
to get you docile and subservient. You'll work out well for a door stop.

Phil I got to say, you are way off base about what you think you know
about me and it's so funny it makes me laugh and the guys at work get a
kick out of it when they see the posts you make. Just another
poor sap from down under that has lost their way.

Jamie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 21:56:37 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400, Jamie
>> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>>>ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>>> hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>
>>
>> Try downloading data from the USGS National Geomagnetism Program at:
>> <http://geomag.usgs.gov>
>> Skimming the various strip chart graphs shows some rather radical
>> short term variations. Where are you and what was the date and time
>> of the event so I can play with the numbers? Looks like the real time
>> graphs only go back 4 days.

> This happen in the middle of last week..

That would be Weds Oct 24th.

>and I did check one of those
>sites. As best as I understood it, it does look like some red hot spot
>was over our area just about at that time. That is, if I read the image
>and data correctly.

If true, that probably answers your question.

> It's really weird and not the first time this has happen.

Plan your disasters carefully.

> But, can't let that get in our way, even though it force a lot of work
>on the machine operators to pull back the product they were running
>though it to make sure it got a proper dose. Some of the products run
>through it takes 2 people just to pick up one end.

I thought you were doing wafer fab, not electron beam welding.

Looks like you're on the east coast. Virginia would be the closest
observatorium:
<http://geomag.usgs.gov/observatories/data/realtime/>
Argh. The GIF files are generated on demand. If you get garbage
instead of a graph, just get a cup of coffee, hit refresh, and it
should be there. For Oct 24th. Ugh, I can't tell which is the
correct day, but they both have the same dip:
<http://geomag.usgs.gov/wwwplots/frdt-5.gif>
<http://geomag.usgs.gov/wwwplots/frdt-4.gif>
Looks like some kind of event at 1PM UTC, which would be 8AM EST.
However, the intensity variations (H field) of 50-75 Newtons doesn't
seem to much different from any other days variations.

Checking if it's the moon:
<http://www.moongiant.com>
Nope. On Oct 24, the moon was below the horizon for most of the day.

Ok, so were there any crop circles on the lawn, missing secretaries
(alien abduction), or mysterious obelisks appearing out of nowhere?

[Jamie]

hell no, we do cross linking of insulating materials. Other people
use the same type of equipment to irradiate food, tires etc...

I don't know how much energy is involved with wafer fabrication but
we can go up in the range of 2.5 Mev on a couple of the machines with
a large scanning area. One of those machines are fed with paired 750MCM
feeds from the buss, that is each phase has a pair of 750MCM, the other
machines use paired 500MCM

We met up with some one about 5 years ago now, that has a unit that
requires a dedicated feed from the electric company, lots of power
there. They irradiate anything for any one accept petroleum, that is
done with a proton accelerator.


We do custom electronics for other operations in the business too,
everything we do stays in the circle of the company. We do not
design anything for commercial applications out side of what we do there
or what ever one of our other locations may need.

Out side of that, I do get into designing electronics that is not
related to my job. The last big adventure I got into was redoing an
eddy current heat treating process inverter system, that was fun. snack
toy money.


Jamie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:16:31 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

> hell no, we do cross linking of insulating materials. Other people
>use the same type of equipment to irradiate food, tires etc...

Egads, a major power user. It's going to take a rather large magnetic
field to move such a high power electron beam. I was thinking in
terms of electron beam lithography in a wafer fab, which is probably
more sensitive to magnetic fields than your monster.

Well, maybe a CME (coronal mass ejection) landed some charged
particles on your wiring adding a DC component to whatever you're
using to feed the ray guns. It wouldn't take much DC on the power
lines to create a magnetic field inside the building:
<http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=24&month=10&year=2012>
Well, there was a solar flare on the 23rd, but no CME. Ok, I give up.

[Bill Sloman]

On Oct 29, 2:09 pm, Jamie

E-beam wafer fab work doesn't involve a lot of energy. It's just
exposing an electron-sensitive resist, typically for less than a
microsecond. The standard Cambridge Instruments set-up was built
around their S-250 electron microscope, which only went up to 40kV -
there was some interest in getting it up to 100kV, but I don't know if
it got anywhere.

While you gained from the finer focus, you lost from the spread of the
high-energy secondaries in the silicon under the resist.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Bill Sloman]

On Oct 29, 2:59 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:16:31 -0500, Jamie
>

> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> >  hell no, we do cross linking of insulating materials. Other people
> >use the same type of equipment to irradiate food, tires etc...
>
> Egads, a major power user.  It's going to take a rather large magnetic
> field to move such a high power electron beam.  I was thinking in
> terms of electron beam lithography in a wafer fab, which is probably
> more sensitive to magnetic fields than your monster.

It's not power that matters, but voltage. The faster the electron is
travelling, the harder it is to bend it's path.

And you bend the path of each electron by the same amount. A moving
electron does constitute a current, but not a large one.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Jamie]

We didn't have any issues with the electrons impacting on a non
intended target. It was a problem with the aperture heating up due to
some disturbance that forced the steering out of alignment enough to
abend the system. On top of that, it saturated the sensor array we have
attached on the out side of the protected vault walls.

btw, we have a storm coming in on us and they called me this morning
to notify me of them canceling operations at our facility. So i'll be here
to aggravate every one, including you.


Jamie

[Jamie]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:16:31 -0500, Jamie
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>> hell no, we do cross linking of insulating materials. Other people
>>use the same type of equipment to irradiate food, tires etc...
>
>
> Egads, a major power user. It's going to take a rather large magnetic
> field to move such a high power electron beam. I was thinking in
> terms of electron beam lithography in a wafer fab, which is probably
> more sensitive to magnetic fields than your monster.
>
> Well, maybe a CME (coronal mass ejection) landed some charged
> particles on your wiring adding a DC component to whatever you're
> using to feed the ray guns. It wouldn't take much DC on the power
> lines to create a magnetic field inside the building:
> <http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=24&month=10&year=2012>
> Well, there was a solar flare on the 23rd, but no CME. Ok, I give up.
>

True but, the units we have do not all come off the same transformers
and they are located far from the location.

Even though we are generating lots of energy, still does not actually
take that much to move the beam, when the train passes by behind the
building we can notice a slight shift in the machine that is closes to
the tracks, steering is critical. On the original machine, which is
still in operation, focus coils have been added but not for focusing and
a couple of small permanent magnets are position just above the scan horn
to correct for an obstruction in the structure so the beam will scan in
a straight line.

We are thinking of using a DDS type system to generate a AB pattern so
we can create custom steering for problems like these. The manufacture
of the machines told us they once tried to engineer a multpoint ramp
signal generator ref for the scan amps but didn't have much success with
it at the time. I guess they had an array of 10 turn pots to set each
point into a summing circuit from a digital IO mux chip.

Playing with present DDS technology at the board level would be a
first for me ;)

Have a good day.
Jamie

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:09:49 -0500) it happened Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote in
<39vjs.11571$Be....@newsfe13.iad>:

I was thinking last night that teh little flux gate compass I build
did detect me with a celphone walking around in the room.
The magnet is in the speaker and also the little vibration buzzer of thw phone.
I have an other 3D fluxgate compass module from ebay,
wrote C code for that, works OK, but you have to calibrate that stuff.
there are also magnetometers that need no calibration.
To detect peoplw with cellphones or othwr magnetic stuff you could put one next to the
doors, and connect it to a level detector and trapdoor lock to prevent them from entering.
Alligator are optional.
I know I do not like to turn in my cellphone, and I can imagine many people not
reporting magnetic items like that.
Not sure if the idea works, or that is the cause of course.

[Joerg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

[...]

> Ok, so were there any crop circles on the lawn, missing secretaries
> (alien abduction), or mysterious obelisks appearing out of nowhere?
>

Or this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rekrapnala/110118517/in/photostream/

[George Herold]

On Oct 27, 12:10 pm, John S <Soph...@invalid.org> wrote:
> On 10/27/2012 10:37 AM, Robert Macy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 27, 1:34 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:58:43 -0400) it happened Jamie
> >> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in
> >> <nmEis.2752$lD4.2...@newsfe24.iad>:

>
> >>>   Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
> >>> with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
> >>> enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>
> >>>   It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
> >>> alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
> >>> the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
> >>> the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
> >>> are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
> >>> in the passed.
>
> >>>   The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because
> >>> we kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
> >>> finally cleared up..
>
> >>>    All these machines are independent of each other..
>

> >>>   Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
> >>> ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
> >>>   hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>

> >>> Jamie
>
> >> The old dirty trick was somebody walking in with one of them super-magnets.
> >> Magnetic stripe cards erased, CRT monitors changing color...
> >> I do not think there is a natural magnetic effect that big,
> >> unless you are located over an underground railway (tube).
>
> >> Mains fluctuations?
>
> > I once took one of those super space magnets [so strong they can make
> > a Canadian dime stand on its edge through your hand] and held it close
> > to my old [favorite] monitor and wow what great color changes. only to
> > find the effects became permanent! not even ON/OFF cycling did a
> > thing. Then I remembered how energetic the fields from my cheap pencil
> > sharpener were, held it close to the screen, sharpened a pencil, and
> > voila! degaussed the nickel layer on the monitor making the color
> > better than before! whew!  I was very looky I didn't permanently bend
> > or break that film, too.
>
> I got myself into the same situation years ago. I finally thought to use
> my big Weller soldering gun as a degausser.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've used a variac and coil to deguass things. (tweezers and small
tools.)

George H.

[Jamie]

I don't do that with the loops but the fluxgate detectors was considered
however, research indicated that they may not have been that good at
detecting pedestrians and we ended up with what we have.

We can't put anything sensitive inside the vault, it'll get destroyed
with in mins, maybe seconds with electrons bouncing off the walls like
they do. As it is, we have problems now with an acid that builds up on
everything due to the ozone generation and moisture mixed.

Jamie

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:32:51 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

>Even though we are generating lots of energy, still does not actually
>take that much to move the beam, when the train passes by behind the
>building we can notice a slight shift in the machine that is closes to
>the tracks, steering is critical.

I had the problem while trying to trim hybrid resistors with a sand
blaster and later a laser. Besides the earthquake simulating
vibration from the passing trains, there was the slight tilt in the
concrete slab foundation when the train was parked near the building.
The weight of the train would cause the foundation to tilt, ruining
the laser alignment. I found the problem by setting up an optical
(non-laser) tilt measuring contraption using a distant mountain top
reference point. Actually, that was a marginal idea because I found
myself measuring tides and freeway traffic. When the number of cars
on a nearby freeway increased during rush hour, the ground would sink
sufficiently to deflect the inclinometer. However, it did demonstrate
that train induced foundation tilt was the primary culprit.
Speculation was that the building was floating on the water table, but
that was never proven. Until the system was rebuilt to be less
sensitive to building movement, we posted the train schedule on the
wall, and production arranged to have breaks when the trains were
scheduled to pass.

My sense of smell tells me that the problem has something to do with
the utility power, but exactly what and how, I can't deduce. Are you
doing any monitoring of the DC component of the utility power? Perhaps
even order harmonic distortion, which would show up as a change in
waveform symmetry?

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 28, 8:09 pm, Jamie

Uh, Jeff, that's nanoTeslas, not newtons

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 29, 7:53 am, Jamie

<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> Jan Panteltje wrote:
> > On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:09:49 -0500) it happened Jamie

> > <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote in
> > <39vjs.11571$Be.6...@newsfe13.iad>:

Isn't it true that if you generate carbon monoxide that its presence
will so actively combine with the ozone that you can minimize the
problem? And, excessive CO is not that caustic. Plus, keep out
pedestrians.

[Robert Macy]

under the photo:
"A flying saucer crashed into this Fly's Electronics in Burbank,
California. The theme for this store is scifi/ufo."

Fly's ??

[Joerg]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:32:51 -0500, Jamie
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Even though we are generating lots of energy, still does not actually
>> take that much to move the beam, when the train passes by behind the
>> building we can notice a slight shift in the machine that is closes to
>> the tracks, steering is critical.
>
> I had the problem while trying to trim hybrid resistors with a sand
> blaster and later a laser. Besides the earthquake simulating
> vibration from the passing trains, there was the slight tilt in the
> concrete slab foundation when the train was parked near the building.
> The weight of the train would cause the foundation to tilt, ruining
> the laser alignment. I found the problem by setting up an optical
> (non-laser) tilt measuring contraption using a distant mountain top
> reference point. Actually, that was a marginal idea because I found
> myself measuring tides and freeway traffic. When the number of cars
> on a nearby freeway increased during rush hour, the ground would sink
> sufficiently to deflect the inclinometer. However, it did demonstrate
> that train induced foundation tilt was the primary culprit.
> Speculation was that the building was floating on the water table, but
> that was never proven. Until the system was rebuilt to be less
> sensitive to building movement, we posted the train schedule on the
> wall, and production arranged to have breaks when the trains were
> scheduled to pass.
>

Interesting. We did the same thing, but with these:

https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Solingen_MAN_SL_172_HO.jpg&filetimestamp=20070923163037

In order to perform accurate ultrasound beam profile tests we had to
wait until each bus was at least 1/4 miles down Beethoven Street. I was
amazed how heavy and "ground-moving" electric buses can be. This was in
Germany where most passengers on these buses are not members of the
0.1-ton class.

[...]

[Joerg]

Chinese for Fry's? :-)

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Oct 2012 09:44:31 -0700) it happened Joerg
<inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in <af7q3o...@mid.individual.net>:

Frying saucer :-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

George Herold wrote:
>
> I've used a variac and coil to deguass things. (tweezers and small
> tools.)

I used to make heavy duty TV degausing coils. They could affect the
image on an old round screen from over 25 feet away. That's why they
had 20 foot power cords.

[Jamie]

I know a couple of employee's I have in mind, I wouldn't mind using as
test subjects.! ;)

Jamie

[Jamie]

No I have not done that but like I said, the feeds come in a long ways
from that location plus we have our own transformers. If memory serves
we have 12kv lines coming in to our transformer stations. We have 2 out
side and 5 transformer vaults in the basement of the main building. But
like I said, they are far way, if there was that sort of issue I think
we'd see problems in other equipment.

I'll tell you what happen one day though, non related to this thread
here, was a general inspection was being done of the 12kV feeds coming
in out side from the electric company, something that is done by one of
the E1's there. He was out side looking up at a commercial feed coming
in and noticed a connecting link to our building was dangling? how could
this be? That would mean we're single phasing however, the plant was
fully loaded as normal.

It was strange, we started to doubt how our place was wired, because
we have another feed coming in. After remembering conversation a I over
heard about the third shift electrician making a comment about one area
having a voltage issue and he couldn't figure out, it all clicked in and
we all seem to agree with that. What was happening was, with all the
induction motors we have operating, they were generating the third leg
for us..

Jamie

[Jasen Betts]

On 2012-10-27, Robert Macy <robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 8:26 pm, Robert Baer <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:

>> Jamie wrote:
>> > Once in a great while, we have a series of events where our machines
>> > with beam scanning functions in them will all be steered out of place
>> > enough to trigger alarms and shut the units down.
>>
>> > It does take a lot of magnetic disturbance to force these out of
>> > alignment, but there is no other equipment adjacent, on the roof nor in
>> > the ground. This area of operations are on ground level cement slab and
>> > the roof is tin with nothing but static vents. Power feed transformers
>> > are far away.. There was no near by strikes which has never cause this
>> > in the passed.
>>
>> > The strange thing is, we had to wait ~ 20 mins for a restart because we
>> > kept on getting an error in steering, on all the machines, then it
>> > finally cleared up..
>>
>> > All these machines are independent of each other..
>>

>> > Is there any geological events that can take place to cause this in the
>> > ground or maybe solar charge of some kind? It's almost like some one was
>> > hanging a large magnet over our plant.
>>

>> > Jamie
>>
>>    **  Copy of previous posting elsewhere **
>>
>>    Err...What about the possibility of an extremely nasty solar flare
>> storm - one that can literally fry all satellite electronics, and zap
>> almost all ground-based electronics?
>>    Refs:
>> 1) EE Times Sep 17,2012 pp 20-22 "Girding for the next 'solar max' "
>> 2) Science Fact article in Analog SF&F Nov 2012 pp21-27 "The Day the Sun
>> Exploded".
>>
>>    Could be serious enough to totally crash all banking in the
>> world,leaving the "Third World" nations in a superior position.
>
> Just thought of something, our satellite reception went wonky the
> other night/day? during 'good' weather. The satellite company claims
> moisture in the air during a rainstorm reduces the uWave signal and
> you get signal breaking up. We got signal breaking up but the weather
> here was SUNNY and clear! Anybody else experience that? Maybe we can
> correlate the disturbances we saw to what happened to Jamie.

perhaps a "sun outage"? It typically happens twice a year on dates
equidistant from the solstice. Your dish was doing a little microwave
astronomy on the nearest star.


--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Robert Macy]

On Oct 31, 4:01 am, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
>...snip...

> perhaps a "sun outage"? It typically happens twice a year on dates
> equidistant from the solstice. Your dish was doing a little microwave
> astronomy on the nearest star.
>
> --
> ⚂⚃ 100% natural
>

> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---

Never thought of that at all!

I've got an abandoned dish complete with LNA all provided by Direct TV
I could experiment with too. [I asked them to come take it away, but
they said they don't do that.]

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 14:40:53 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_v...@charter.net> wrote:

>> My sense of smell tells me that the problem has something to do with
>> the utility power, but exactly what and how, I can't deduce. Are you
>> doing any monitoring of the DC component of the utility power? Perhaps
>> even order harmonic distortion, which would show up as a change in
>> waveform symmetry?

>No I have not done that but like I said, the feeds come in a long ways
>from that location plus we have our own transformers.

A crude way of testing for DC on the AC mains is to find a cheap
magnetic compass, and put it near the AC lines. It it's stuck
perpendicular to the line, at any position, you have DC. If it
wanders around, or points in generally the correct direction, there's
no DC component. (Note: This doesn't work if the AC cables are run
closely parallel to each other).
<http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Magnetism/electricitymagnet.htm>
If it happens again, have a magentic compass handy.

>What was happening was, with all the
>induction motors we have operating, they were generating the third leg
>for us..

Rotating power transfomers. Nice.

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 08:29:47 -0700, Fred Abse
<excret...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:07:52 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>
>> Frying saucer :-)
>
>Small wok?

Reminds me of a technician of mine. Before he worked for me he worked
for GM in Michigan. One morning, at dawn, driving to work in a nasty
snowstorm he hit a frost heave hard and lost a hub cap which went
sailing off on down the highway.

A mile or so down the road he's waved down by a woman, hysterical,
"her windshield had been hit by a flying saucer" ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
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| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
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I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.