Power Supply for Robotic Pony toy

[fr3oo...@unlisted.000]

I have one of these. FurReal Friends 3 foot tall Butterscotch Pony by
Hasbro. A robotic pony toy for kids (and adults like me who think they
are great).

Photo:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQxMVgxNjAw/z/pWcAAOSwR0JUOCAD/$_1.JPG

It needs SIX (6) D Cell batteries. Which means it's 9 volts.
I have a 12 volt power supply which was sold for CB radios, but works on
other automotive electronics.

I know the power supply will put out enough current, I believe it's
either 3 or 5 amps (I'd have to look, and it's not handy at the moment).

What would it take to reduce the voltage to 9 volts? I'd prefer not to
permanently modify the power supply, and have something external, if
possible.

Otherwise, I have a few wall wart modules laying around which are 9 volt
DC, but I have a feeling they would not have enough current (they are
fairly small). Does anyone know what the maximum current that D Cells
can produce? I know these ponies use quite a bit of power since they
are quite complex, many parts of the body move, they have movement
sensors, voice, and a lot more.....

Maybe buying a power module would be the easiest and cheapest route, but
I will need some sort of idea of the current needed.

Thanks

[Don Y]

What is your goal in this effort? To avoid buying batteries? To
increase the run-time between battery changes?

E.g., you can buy two sets of rechargeable NiMH cells and charge
one set while using the other.

Recall that any sort of power supply means your pony will end
up tethered to a wall (socket).

[Somehow, that seems to defeat the purpose for a "motive device"]

You will need to better understand what the pony's use of the power
is likely to be in different activities. E.g., when moving around,
it probably places a larger draw on the power source than when
"thinking" (speaking? Do ponies speak?).

And, the device's sensitivity to voltage fluctuations (i.e., with
power demand) may vary with these different activities. As the
power pack sags, perhaps motion just gets slower. Or, perhaps
it *stops* at a certain point.

Note that the choice of battery chemistry will also affect the
useful life of the battery. E.g., alkalines being better than
C-Zn.

[fr3oo...@unlisted.000]

1. To avoid buying batteries.
2. It's a pain to change them.

>E.g., you can buy two sets of rechargeable NiMH cells and charge
>one set while using the other.

NiCads seem to have a very short lifespan.
And I'd still have to change them often.

>
>Recall that any sort of power supply means your pony will end
>up tethered to a wall (socket).

It does NOT walk. It's meant for kids to sit on. The head moves up
down left right, as well as the eyes blink, mouth moves, ears wiggle,
tail swishes, and more. They are actually very real looking and
hi-tech. The motion sensor makes the head turn toward you, chew,
whinney, and other functions. It has a built in microphone which causes
it to make sounds when you talk to it.

>
>[Somehow, that seems to defeat the purpose for a "motive device"]
>

No, see above.

>You will need to better understand what the pony's use of the power
>is likely to be in different activities. E.g., when moving around,
>it probably places a larger draw on the power source than when
>"thinking" (speaking? Do ponies speak?).

It makes all kinds of pony sounds (speaking).

>
>And, the device's sensitivity to voltage fluctuations (i.e., with
>power demand) may vary with these different activities. As the
>power pack sags, perhaps motion just gets slower. Or, perhaps
>it *stops* at a certain point.
>

Yea it just stops all functions.

>Note that the choice of battery chemistry will also affect the
>useful life of the battery. E.g., alkalines being better than
>C-Zn.

It's supposed to use alkaline, but C-Zn does work too.

[Don Y]

On 10/25/2014 5:27 PM, fr3oo...@unlisted.000 wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 14:19:18 -0700, Don Y <th...@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe buying a power module would be the easiest and cheapest route, but
>>> I will need some sort of idea of the current needed.
>>
>> What is your goal in this effort? To avoid buying batteries? To
>> increase the run-time between battery changes?
>>
> 1. To avoid buying batteries.
> 2. It's a pain to change them.

Fair enough. Have you measured how long ("typical use") a FRESH
set of alkalines (or carbon-zinc) batteries last? This would give
you a rough idea as to typical power consumption.

You can also temporarily remove the batteries connecting them to
the toy with clip leads and inserting an ammeter inline to get a feel
for current requirements.

>> E.g., you can buy two sets of rechargeable NiMH cells and charge
>> one set while using the other.
>
> NiCads seem to have a very short lifespan.
> And I'd still have to change them often.

Yup. Note, though, that I suggested NiMH, not NiCd's (also short-lived)

>> Recall that any sort of power supply means your pony will end
>> up tethered to a wall (socket).
>
> It does NOT walk. It's meant for kids to sit on. The head moves up
> down left right, as well as the eyes blink, mouth moves, ears wiggle,
> tail swishes, and more. They are actually very real looking and
> hi-tech. The motion sensor makes the head turn toward you, chew,
> whinney, and other functions. It has a built in microphone which causes
> it to make sounds when you talk to it.

Ah, cool! Much like the Teddy Ruxpin et al. toys I've "repurposed", here.
They, of course, are not intended to be mobile so sitting them in various
places around the house doesn't "look odd".

I will have to explore this pony, as well!

>> [Somehow, that seems to defeat the purpose for a "motive device"]
>
> No, see above.
>
>> You will need to better understand what the pony's use of the power
>> is likely to be in different activities. E.g., when moving around,
>> it probably places a larger draw on the power source than when
>> "thinking" (speaking? Do ponies speak?).
>
> It makes all kinds of pony sounds (speaking).

It's hard to know if this would be more or less demanding of power
than the "mechanisms" (which are often little tiny DC motors with
large gear-reductions)

>> And, the device's sensitivity to voltage fluctuations (i.e., with
>> power demand) may vary with these different activities. As the
>> power pack sags, perhaps motion just gets slower. Or, perhaps
>> it *stops* at a certain point.
>
> Yea it just stops all functions.
>
>> Note that the choice of battery chemistry will also affect the
>> useful life of the battery. E.g., alkalines being better than
>> C-Zn.
>
> It's supposed to use alkaline, but C-Zn does work too.

You might find that a smallish 9VDC wall wart or brick, coupled with
a bulk capacitor located IN the toy, will allow you to handle the
peak loads (from the cap) as well as the average loads (from the
appropriately sized wall-wart). Note that it's relatively easy to come
by 12V power packs capable of several amps (e.g., for LCD monitors).
Once you fall below 12V, things get a bit trickier (as lower voltage
products tend to also require lower power)

[You may need some high frequency decoupling at the toy end, as well,
if the supply oscillates]

Finally, you might also consider a "9V battery charger" located outside
the toy and tethered to the *batteries* within! The idea being that it
tries to keep recharging the batteries in the toy while allowing
them to handle the "real load" (depends on how heavily the toy is
used "per session")

[Kevin McMurtrie]

In article <qd2o4ap0rqbnk04bd...@4ax.com>,

9V 5A is not uncommon for a compact switching power supply. Any online
electronic components store will have a hundred to choose from.

I recommend one with proper EMI shielding and a ground. Many "your
brand here" switching power supplies leak dangerous amounts of RF and
line power.

--
I will not see posts from astraweb, theremailer, dizum, or google
because they host Usenet flooders.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-10-25, fr3oo...@unlisted.000 <fr3oo...@unlisted.000> wrote:
> I have one of these. FurReal Friends 3 foot tall Butterscotch Pony by
> Hasbro. A robotic pony toy for kids (and adults like me who think they
> are great).
>
> Photo:
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQxMVgxNjAw/z/pWcAAOSwR0JUOCAD/$_1.JPG
>
> It needs SIX (6) D Cell batteries. Which means it's 9 volts.
> I have a 12 volt power supply which was sold for CB radios, but works on
> other automotive electronics.

I have a toy that fires foam darts using a spring-loaded piston pump
it runs off 6 D cells, at some ridiculous current.

> I know the power supply will put out enough current, I believe it's
> either 3 or 5 amps (I'd have to look, and it's not handy at the moment).
>
> What would it take to reduce the voltage to 9 volts? I'd prefer not to
> permanently modify the power supply, and have something external, if
> possible.

a linear regulator with a heatsink good for 9 to 15 watts... oh hang on
you said CB so it's probably 13.8V out make that 15 to 25 watts.

> Otherwise, I have a few wall wart modules laying around which are 9 volt
> DC, but I have a feeling they would not have enough current (they are
> fairly small). Does anyone know what the maximum current that D Cells
> can produce?

ballpark 5A for primary cells 20A for rechargeable.

> I know these ponies use quite a bit of power since they
> are quite complex, many parts of the body move, they have movement
> sensors, voice, and a lot more.....
>
> Maybe buying a power module would be the easiest and cheapest route, but
> I will need some sort of idea of the current needed.

yeah, that would be a good start.

--
umop apisdn

[fr3oo...@unlisted.000]

Thanks for the help. Maybe a combination of NiMH cells and an external
charger would be the ticket. I know I can sneak a wire into the
removable battery compartment with only a small hole drilled into it.

I have not measured the length of time the bateries last, but I know the
alkaline last a little longer then carbon zinc, but not that much
longer. I usually buy what is the cheapest, normally C-Zn, which are
half the price. I'd hate to have to buy batteries for kids, who left it
turned on all the time.

It just sits in my living room and looks cute. It seems adults like
them as much as kids, if not more. There are videos of them on youtube,
in action. Just type in "Butterscotch pony" or "Smores pony" (Smores is
a different color, but does the same thing). They are in the "Fur Real"
series of animated robotic animals made by Hasbro. Unfortunately Hasbro
discontinued these large ones and only make small ones now, so parts are
no longer available. They sold for $300 or more in the stores around
2006 to 2009 or so, and I see them sold (used) for as much as twice that
amount on ebay now. I bought mine at a garage sale for only a few
dollars and was shocked they sold it so cheap. Aside from a missing
ear, it was complete and worked. I just cleaned it up and it's been a
wonderful decoration and conversation piece ever since. I keep looking
on ebay for a replacement ear, so I see what they sell for. Why Hasbro
stopped making them makes no sense to me. They are one of the coolest
toys ever made.

BTW, it's about 3 feet tall in height and about the same size as a
*real* Shetland pony.

There is a website that shows how someone turned one of them into a
"fire breathing" robot. To me, that is a waste of such a great toy, and
dangerous, but their site shows how one of them is built with photos of
the inside as well as the micro processor computer board within. That
site has been helpful to know how it works though......

[Don Y]

On 10/26/2014 1:29 PM, fr3oo...@unlisted.000 wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 20:16:32 -0700, Don Y <th...@is.not.me.com> wrote:

>> Finally, you might also consider a "9V battery charger" located outside
>> the toy and tethered to the *batteries* within! The idea being that it
>> tries to keep recharging the batteries in the toy while allowing
>> them to handle the "real load" (depends on how heavily the toy is
>> used "per session")
>
> Thanks for the help. Maybe a combination of NiMH cells and an external
> charger would be the ticket. I know I can sneak a wire into the
> removable battery compartment with only a small hole drilled into it.

I have no idea as to your technical ("theory") ability. But, this isn't
JUST "sticking a charger on the batteries while in use". You need to
consider what sort of use they will see in that configuration (and
whether you will confuse the charger as it expects to see the cell
voltages INCREASING as it charges them, not decreasing from the pony
load!).

> I have not measured the length of time the bateries last, but I know the
> alkaline last a little longer then carbon zinc, but not that much
> longer. I usually buy what is the cheapest, normally C-Zn, which are
> half the price. I'd hate to have to buy batteries for kids, who left it
> turned on all the time.

Design should have included a "sleep" mode.

> It just sits in my living room and looks cute. It seems adults like
> them as much as kids, if not more. There are videos of them on youtube,
> in action. Just type in "Butterscotch pony" or "Smores pony" (Smores is
> a different color, but does the same thing). They are in the "Fur Real"
> series of animated robotic animals made by Hasbro. Unfortunately Hasbro
> discontinued these large ones and only make small ones now, so parts are
> no longer available. They sold for $300 or more in the stores around
> 2006 to 2009 or so, and I see them sold (used) for as much as twice that
> amount on ebay now. I bought mine at a garage sale for only a few
> dollars and was shocked they sold it so cheap. Aside from a missing
> ear, it was complete and worked. I just cleaned it up and it's been a
> wonderful decoration and conversation piece ever since. I keep looking
> on ebay for a replacement ear, so I see what they sell for. Why Hasbro
> stopped making them makes no sense to me. They are one of the coolest
> toys ever made.

Yes, I've done similar with the WoW toys (Ruxpin et al.). As they aren't
intended to be mobile, they just sit in various spots in various rooms
and act as animated speakerphones (a blatant rip-off of a COTS toy I
saw at CES 20+ years ago). I'll be re-hacking them to tie them into
my home automation system as they'll have more value, there (and see more
use as well!)

> BTW, it's about 3 feet tall in height and about the same size as a
> *real* Shetland pony.
>
> There is a website that shows how someone turned one of them into a
> "fire breathing" robot. To me, that is a waste of such a great toy, and
> dangerous, but their site shows how one of them is built with photos of
> the inside as well as the micro processor computer board within. That
> site has been helpful to know how it works though......

My WoW hacks have been very "light-handed" -- not wanting to dig too deep into
the mechanisms. I've seen folks who have installed real servos so they could
*drive* each mechanism to a specific "position"/orientation. But, that wasn't
necessary for a speakerphone -- as long as the lips and eyes sort of move
coincident with the audio coming from the toy (i.e., your caller's voice!),
the effect is good enough. Not sure if that will continue to be my assessment
once their roles are changed in the new deployment...

<shrug>

[ehsjr]

MJE2955
+12 ---+--------- ----------------+--- +9
| e\ /c |
| --- --------- |
| | | 7809 | |
+---[3R]---+---|Vin Vout|---+
| | Gnd | |
--- --------- ---
--- .33uF | --- .1uF
| | |
Gnd ---+-------------------+--------+--- Gnd

The above circuit will reduce the 12V (more likely it is
13.8V) from your 5 amp supply to 9V. You'll need a large
heatsink, cooled by a muffin fan on the MJE2955 transistor,
assuming the toy draws up to 5 amps. The 3 ohm resistor
should be rated at at least 1 watt. The 7809 would survive
without a heatsink, but would be hot, so use a heatsink
there, too.

Ed