Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
OT: About America in this NG
114 views
Skip to first unread message
petrus bitbyter
Nov 22, 2012, 8:49:54 AM11/22/12
to
Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
Although they did not invent the computer they have a typical binary way of
ordering their society. There are two groups, the white and the black. The
whites, often called Caucasians, have their roots mainly in western Europe.
All others are considered to be black. Some subgroup off blacks named
themselves Afro-Americans although a lot of them may not even know what
Africa is or where to find it. But even if they find it out some day, I
doubt they want to go and live there. One real Afro-American is running
around at the moment. He is a real Afro-American because he has a black
African father and a white American mother. He is, of course, considered to
be black. He has to do something in politics but nobody, even he himself,
seems to know exactly what he does.
Speaking politics, there are also two groups. The leftist weenies and the
rightist braves. The leftist spent the money the rightist earn - or so they
say. As America is said to be a democracy, the main peoples representative,
the president is chosen by an honest voting system: One man one vote.
Nevertheless the candidate with lesser votes can win the elections and
become the president.
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One day I
hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.
petrus bitbyter
something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
Although they did not invent the computer they have a typical binary way of
ordering their society. There are two groups, the white and the black. The
whites, often called Caucasians, have their roots mainly in western Europe.
All others are considered to be black. Some subgroup off blacks named
themselves Afro-Americans although a lot of them may not even know what
Africa is or where to find it. But even if they find it out some day, I
doubt they want to go and live there. One real Afro-American is running
around at the moment. He is a real Afro-American because he has a black
African father and a white American mother. He is, of course, considered to
be black. He has to do something in politics but nobody, even he himself,
seems to know exactly what he does.
Speaking politics, there are also two groups. The leftist weenies and the
rightist braves. The leftist spent the money the rightist earn - or so they
say. As America is said to be a democracy, the main peoples representative,
the president is chosen by an honest voting system: One man one vote.
Nevertheless the candidate with lesser votes can win the elections and
become the president.
In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One day I
hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.
petrus bitbyter
John Larkin
Nov 22, 2012, 10:31:44 AM11/22/12
to
--
John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
miso
Nov 22, 2012, 11:01:06 AM11/22/12
to
1) There are no leftist weenies
2) The right wingers are moochers. Money flows from the liberal to the
conservatives. Arizona, land of the freeloaders.
> http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
Jim Thompson
Nov 22, 2012, 11:22:58 AM11/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:01:06 -0800, miso <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
>1) There are no leftist weenies
Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
>
>1) There are no leftist weenies
>2) The right wingers are moochers. Money flows from the liberal to the
>conservatives. Arizona, land of the freeloaders.
>> http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union
>
shoot them as they cross the borders, we could export money.
At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
>:-}
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Nov 22, 2012, 12:07:53 PM11/22/12
to
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:01:06 -0800, miso <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>1) There are no leftist weenies
> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
>
>>
>>1) There are no leftist weenies
> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
> At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
VLV
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 1:15:56 PM11/22/12
to
Jim Thompson
Nov 22, 2012, 1:21:59 PM11/22/12
to
Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
thumpers?
Because the Dems push that as our image?
In actual fact, read your history, Dems are the bible thumpers AND the
racists.
Watch "Lincoln" as an example... and that movie was made by a
leftist... by Phoenix' own Steven Spielberg, graduate of Arcadia High
School.
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com
Nov 22, 2012, 2:42:44 PM11/22/12
to
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:49:35 AM UTC-5, petrus bitbyter wrote:
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
That explains your pathetically simple-minded and inaccurate opinion.
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
amdx
Nov 22, 2012, 3:36:19 PM11/22/12
to
On 11/22/2012 7:49 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
>
> In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
> are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
> which cannot succeed.
> petrus bitbyter
>
> In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
> are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
> which cannot succeed.
>
>
I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
American Entitlement Party.
My post was somewhat in jest, because
I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
labor in the land of plenty.
Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Many of the poor have big screen tv's, cable tv and internet. They
also have air conditioning and an automobile. They have cellphones
usually a smart phone. Many of us who aren't on government subsidies
don't have smart phones and our wives don't get their fingernails
painted by others, because we are spending money we earned,
not money given to us. This gives us a bad feeling about welfare,
even though we understand it is needed in many situations. Poor in
America is not like poor in a third world country.
The benefit of having the American Entitlement Party is, there are
people that think we need more entitlements, if they all voted for the
American Entitlement Party presidential candidate, most of that vote
would come from the Democratic candidate, this would benefit the
Republican candidate. That was the purpose of my rant.
>So far what I learned from reading but correct me if I'm wrong J One
>day I hope to cross the pond and have a look by myself.
Mikek
amdx
Nov 22, 2012, 3:41:03 PM11/22/12
to
variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Mikek
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Nov 22, 2012, 4:06:06 PM11/22/12
to
"amdx" <am...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
news:45b0$50ae8dff$18ec6dd7$78...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> On 11/22/2012 11:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>> "Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote
>> in
>> message news:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:01:06 -0800, miso <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) There are no leftist weenies
>>> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
>>
>> No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
>> kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different,
>> both
>> parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
>>
>>> At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
>>
>> Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent
>> age
>> of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
>> "Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote
>> in
>> message news:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:01:06 -0800, miso <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) There are no leftist weenies
>>> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
>>
>> No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
>> kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different,
>> both
>> parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
>>
>>> At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
>>
>> Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent
>> age
>> of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
> Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more variety
> in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Of course. When they catch another serial rapist homosexual, quite often he
> in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
appears to be a pillar of conservative society if not a priest.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Nov 22, 2012, 4:14:25 PM11/22/12
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1v6dnY5lIs949jPN...@earthlink.com...
Jim Thompson
Nov 22, 2012, 4:24:37 PM11/22/12
to
E-mail address. Why do you? Too many little boys in your sexual
exploits?
Jim Thompson
Nov 22, 2012, 4:37:06 PM11/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:41:03 -0600, amdx <am...@knologynotthis.net>
wrote:
In his early-80's my father inquired if I was still getting sex... he
said that he was... annoyed the crap out of my sister, because our
mother had only been dead for two years, and he was already "dating"
;-)
wrote:
said that he was... annoyed the crap out of my sister, because our
mother had only been dead for two years, and he was already "dating"
;-)
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Nov 22, 2012, 4:49:11 PM11/22/12
to
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
> I don't conceal my identity or
> E-mail address. Why do you? Too many little boys in your sexual
> exploits?
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 5:24:02 PM11/22/12
to
attempt to insult me shows just what kind of fool you are.
Jim Thompson
Nov 22, 2012, 5:24:33 PM11/22/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:49:11 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
What? You want to be listed ?:-)
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 5:27:26 PM11/22/12
to
amdx wrote:
>
> We would be happy to see you!
for the summer. ;-)
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 5:33:03 PM11/22/12
to
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> >
> >A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
> >
>
> What? You want to be listed ?:-)
Even though he can't spell worth 'shitch'?
> Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> >
> >A self appointed FBI shitch tells me to go away?
> >
>
> What? You want to be listed ?:-)
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 5:58:19 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 7:41 am, amdx <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote:
> On 11/22/2012 11:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
> On 11/22/2012 11:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > messagenews:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
> >> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:01:06 -0800, miso <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
> >>> 1) There are no leftist weenies
> >> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
>
> > No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
> > kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
> > parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
>
> >> At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
>
> > Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
> > of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
>
> > VLV
>
> Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
> variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
These studies followed studies that showed that conservative had more
>
> >>> 1) There are no leftist weenies
> >> Indeed, leftists have no weenies.
>
> > No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
> > kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
> > parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
>
> >> At least, in Arizona, we males know that you have sex with a female
>
> > Sure. As long as this is within a wedlock, missionary position, consent age
> > of 50 years old and other restrictions apply.
>
> > VLV
>
> Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
> variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
money to spend on books than liberals, but they'd only spend it on
books that portrayed them favourably.
Lying flattery sells to conservatives, who can't do the critical
thinking required to detect that they are being ripped off by
flatterers. Economists have noticed this too.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Syd Rumpo
Nov 22, 2012, 5:59:24 PM11/22/12
to
On 22/11/2012 18:21, Jim Thompson wrote:
<snip>
> Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
> thumpers?
That's an interesting question, and probably more to do with our media
than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
anywhere I've been, even France :-)
<aside>
True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
"Gee, you speak English really well!"
</aside>
But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
Mormon, that's really freaky. I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
documentary.
This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
finger on the big red button. That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
racist etc. Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
much.
Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
foreign. God save the Queen!
--
Syd
<snip>
> Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
> thumpers?
than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
anywhere I've been, even France :-)
<aside>
True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
"Gee, you speak English really well!"
</aside>
But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
Mormon, that's really freaky. I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
documentary.
This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
finger on the big red button. That's not to say that Obama isn't a
theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
racist etc. Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
much.
Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
foreign. God save the Queen!
--
Syd
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 6:07:22 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 9:24 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
> >messagenews:rs5ta8dvbrlvjoh37...@4ax.com...
> >>>"amdx" <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
> >>>>> wrote
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> messagenews:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
Jim's too dim to realise that telling the FBI about people he suspects
of being dangerously anti-American can say at least as much about his
- negligible - powers of judgement as it says about the people he
snitches on.
Since I once had legitimate reason to visit US-Army ECOM at Fort
Monmouth New Jersey, the FBI might well have been able to access a
security file on me which would have told them a different story than
the one Jim was peddling.
He can try to finger anybody he likes, but the FBI is unlikely to
waste time following up the leads he gives them.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:49:11 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 15:49:11 -0600, "Vladimir Vassilevsky"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >messagenews:rs5ta8dvbrlvjoh37...@4ax.com...
> >>>"amdx" <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:45b0$50ae8dff$18ec6dd7$78...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> >>>> On 11/22/2012 11:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> >>>>> "Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-Web-Site.com>
> >>>> On 11/22/2012 11:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> >>>>> wrote
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> messagenews:g2ksa89ehgqr3dmpb...@4ax.com...
of being dangerously anti-American can say at least as much about his
- negligible - powers of judgement as it says about the people he
snitches on.
Since I once had legitimate reason to visit US-Army ECOM at Fort
Monmouth New Jersey, the FBI might well have been able to access a
security file on me which would have told them a different story than
the one Jim was peddling.
He can try to finger anybody he likes, but the FBI is unlikely to
waste time following up the leads he gives them.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
k...@att.bizzz
Nov 22, 2012, 6:12:04 PM11/22/12
to
to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
place?
pedro
Nov 22, 2012, 6:23:29 PM11/22/12
to
>Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
>something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
(snip interesting analysis)
>something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
>In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
>are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
>which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
>parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
>want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
>of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
>even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
>though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
country and live here with impunity.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 6:45:57 PM11/22/12
to
k...@att.bizzz wrote:
>
> Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
> to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
> place?
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 22, 2012, 6:47:18 PM11/22/12
to
stuck with him now that she's retired.
k...@att.bizzz
Nov 22, 2012, 7:20:15 PM11/22/12
to
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 7:33:11 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 10:46 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
He doesn't have a say in American politics. He's interested in it
because the defects of the American political system have consequences
fir the rest of the world. He's like me only in the sense that he has
his own opinions, and they are mostly rational.
Mike Terrell does have his own opinions, but most of them are standard
issue right-wing nitwit fodder that he was spoon-fed by the Florida
press - Heil Jeb Bush - while krw is famous for having just one
opinion, which is that he agrees exactly with every right-wing nitwit
who posts here who make more money than he does.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
wrote:
because the defects of the American political system have consequences
fir the rest of the world. He's like me only in the sense that he has
his own opinions, and they are mostly rational.
Mike Terrell does have his own opinions, but most of them are standard
issue right-wing nitwit fodder that he was spoon-fed by the Florida
press - Heil Jeb Bush - while krw is famous for having just one
opinion, which is that he agrees exactly with every right-wing nitwit
who posts here who make more money than he does.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 7:36:43 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 11:20 am, k...@att.bizzz wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:45:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 18:45:57 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>
> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >k...@att.bizzz wrote:
>
> >> Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
> >> to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
> >> place?
>
> > He only thinks he does. He's like Slogman.
>
> Quite like.
If you were as dumb and ill-informed as krw you could think that, if
>
> >k...@att.bizzz wrote:
>
> >> Why would anyone be insulted by what a Trotskyite like "Vladimir" have
> >> to say? Why does he have a say in American politics in the first
> >> place?
>
> > He only thinks he does. He's like Slogman.
>
> Quite like.
you were to dignify the decision-forming process as "thinking". Being
cringingly obsequious is a more informative description of the
process.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Vladimir Vassilevsky
Nov 22, 2012, 7:46:11 PM11/22/12
to
news:I_qdnQUeZc-gJDPN...@earthlink.com...
As US sitizen, I have the same say and same vote as everybody else. At least
in the theory. However, as everything has already been decided in the
government, it would be more accurate to say that my opinion does not have
any weight as well as everybody else's.
VLV
in the theory. However, as everything has already been decided in the
government, it would be more accurate to say that my opinion does not have
any weight as well as everybody else's.
VLV
cameo
Nov 22, 2012, 7:50:17 PM11/22/12
to
On 11/22/2012 5:49 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
Good observations, Petrus!
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
cameo
Nov 22, 2012, 7:53:40 PM11/22/12
to
On 11/22/2012 9:07 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
> No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
> kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
> parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Vlad, ty nichevo nie poniemayesh.
> No weenies and no leftists. There are two political parties: fascists and
> kommunists. Although fascist and kommunist beliefs are bit different, both
> parties think everybody owes them; while in fact they owe to everybody.
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 7:59:22 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 10:23 am, pedro <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
>
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
>
on the verge of expiring) but I was born in Burnie, Tasmania, of
Australian-born parents, with three Australian-born grandparents, and
I'm an Australian citizen.
One of my great-uncles (Leonard Woodward Turner, who was actually born
in the UK) fought at Gallipoli, got wounded there and died six weeks
later of those wounds on Lemnos.on the 27th July 1915. This is roughly
equivalent to having had an ancestor on the Mayflower, though the
Mayflower only carried 102 passengers, while the Gallipoli campaign
killed 8700 Australians.
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 22, 2012, 8:01:17 PM11/22/12
to
On Nov 23, 10:47 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
She's retired from the job she had in the Netherlands, but is working
flat out over here.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
wrote:
flat out over here.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
Nov 22, 2012, 8:14:42 PM11/22/12
to
On 11/22/2012 12:36 PM, amdx wrote:
> I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
> American Entitlement Party.
>
> My post was somewhat in jest, because
> I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
> distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
> in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
> labor in the land of plenty.
> Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
> be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
> to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
> out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at busy
intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born Americans.
Go, figure ...
> I suspect you are referring the "one" that's me who wants to start the
> American Entitlement Party.
>
> My post was somewhat in jest, because
> I think the government takes to much money from taxpayers and
> distributes it to those who have either, not figured out how to make it
> in the land of plenty, or have figured out how to live off of others
> labor in the land of plenty.
> Even those living under the poverty level (we call them poor) seem to
> be able to get their fingernails painted by someone who often has come
> to this country and does not speak the language well, but HAS figured
> out how to earn a living and acquire assets.
Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at busy
intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born Americans.
Go, figure ...
cameo
Nov 22, 2012, 8:20:36 PM11/22/12
to
On 11/22/2012 3:23 PM, pedro wrote:
> He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
> country and live here with impunity.
>
Where do you get that he lives in the US? Last time I checked he lived
> He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
> country and live here with impunity.
>
in Holland but AFAIK any Dutch can visit the US without visa.
cameo
Nov 22, 2012, 8:26:29 PM11/22/12
to
Pedro's post.
miso
Nov 22, 2012, 11:11:10 PM11/22/12
to
Here is a list of Republican heterosexual porn stars:
miso
Nov 22, 2012, 11:16:31 PM11/22/12
to
> Studies have shown conservatives have a better, richer and more
> variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
> Mikek
> variety in their sex life, and they have it more often.
> It's not just the wine that keeps Thompson so lively!
Yeah, I think the American Enterprise Institute issued that report. Or
was it Heritage? I think Larry Craig wrote it. Wait, maybe Bob Allen.
No, Bruce Barclay.
> http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals
pedro
Nov 23, 2012, 1:13:52 AM11/23/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 17:26:29 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
turn referring.
wrote:
turn referring.
pedro
Nov 23, 2012, 1:15:02 AM11/23/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 16:59:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
<bill....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 10:23 am, pedro <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
>>
>> <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
>> >something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
>>
>> (snip interesting analysis)
>>
>> >In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
>> >are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
>> >which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
>> >parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
>> >want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
>> >of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
>> >even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
>> >though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
>>
>> He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
>> country and live here with impunity.
>
>Wrong.
My error.
<bill....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 23, 10:23 am, pedro <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 14:49:54 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
>>
>> <petrus.bitby...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
>> >something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
>>
>> (snip interesting analysis)
>>
>> >In this NG, engaged in electronics when there are no political issues, there
>> >are several braves active. One even wants to start a new political party
>> >which cannot succeed. American brains have no place for more the two
>> >parties. Leftist weenies are seldom heard. They off course can post if they
>> >want to - so they can be told how wrong they are - but they keep silent most
>> >of the times. The one that comes nearest is not an American and does not
>> >even live in the States but he's an Aussie that lives or lived in Europe
>> >though he seems to be back down under at the moment.
>>
>> He's dutch AFAICT but for some reason he seems able to enter this
>> country and live here with impunity.
>
>Wrong.
> I had a long term residence permit in the Netherlands (which is
>on the verge of expiring) but I was born in Burnie, Tasmania
cameo
Nov 23, 2012, 3:52:39 AM11/23/12
to
On 11/22/2012 10:13 PM, pedro wrote:
>> Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
>> Pedro's post.
>
> I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
> turn referring.
>
OK, I've got it now. I guess this time I was slow, man. ;-)
>> Just to make sure, I was talking about Petrus as he was quoted in
>> Pedro's post.
>
> I was referring to Sloman, the person to whom I expect Petrus was in
> turn referring.
>
who where
Nov 23, 2012, 5:26:41 AM11/23/12
to
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 00:52:39 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
No reason to beat yourself up.
wrote:
Bill Sloman
Nov 23, 2012, 6:21:10 AM11/23/12
to
to have four grandparents (as I did, though they all lived in South
Australia). The guy who I usually beat out for top the boys as we went
through school is now professor of inorganic chemistry in Melbourne -
it wasn't your typical Tasmanian country town at the time.
http://www.worldcat.org/title/pulp-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-industry/oclc/745863311
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
Nov 23, 2012, 1:12:27 PM11/23/12
to
On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:59:24 +0000, Syd Rumpo <use...@nononono.co.uk>
wrote:
>On 22/11/2012 18:21, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
>> thumpers?
>
>That's an interesting question, and probably more to do with our media
>than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
>to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
>anywhere I've been, even France :-)
I've had French street vendors ignore me and serve everyone around me
:-(
>
><aside>
>True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
>"Gee, you speak English really well!"
></aside>
;-)
>
>But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
>Mormon, that's really freaky.
Why is that any more "freaky" than a Baptist? They're the real
"thumpers" >:-}
>I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
>far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
>the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
>and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
>just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
>documentary.
>
>This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
>finger on the big red button.
Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
>That's not to say that Obama isn't a
>theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
>
>Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
>anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
>racist etc.
That's one thing we need to cure. Image laid on us by Democrats. And
ignorance of those who will not seek out facts
>Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
>much.
Like a turd.
>
>Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
>foreign. God save the Queen!
Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
wrote:
>On 22/11/2012 18:21, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Why do Europeons think we, on the right financially, are bible
>> thumpers?
>
>That's an interesting question, and probably more to do with our media
>than anything. Whenever I've been to the 'States, I've found the people
>to be overwhelmingly friendly and helpful. But that applies almost
>anywhere I've been, even France :-)
:-(
>
><aside>
>True conversation in Alabama: "Where're y'all from?" - "I'm British." -
>"Gee, you speak English really well!"
></aside>
>
>But when we read that the next 'leader of the free world' might be a
>Mormon, that's really freaky.
"thumpers" >:-}
>I didn't know much about Mormonism, as
>far as I know they're just rather strange young men in suits who prowl
>the streets of Britain boring the arse off anyone foolish enough to stop
>and listen. At first, I thought the South Park 'Mormon' episode was
>just a bit of fun, then I read a bit and saw that it was practically a
>documentary.
>
>This Romney nutter believes in fucking pixies and could have had his
>finger on the big red button.
>That's not to say that Obama isn't a
>theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
>
>Over here, Republican ~= fundamentalist Christian, anti-gay,
>anti-almost-any-sort-of-freedom-of-expression, militaristic, closet
>racist etc.
ignorance of those who will not seek out facts
>Democrats, however, are just a little more cuddly. But not
>much.
>
>Basically, all foreigners are weird, but I suppose they can't help being
>foreign. God save the Queen!
it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
as people rather than as "the enemy".
One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 23, 2012, 1:29:34 PM11/23/12
to
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> Syd Rumpo wrote:
>
> Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
>
> >That's not to say that Obama isn't a
> >theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
>
> Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
More like 'Up a stream...'
> Syd Rumpo wrote:
>
> Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
>
> >That's not to say that Obama isn't a
> >theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
>
> Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
> Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
> it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
> provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
> as people rather than as "the enemy".
high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house. She was
beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
amdx
Nov 23, 2012, 5:39:59 PM11/23/12
to
to better themselves. Another point, they have a different view about
all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply to me)
My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English skills, no
education to help them. But a couple of the siblings have
over a million in assets, most of their children went through college.
I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living and
rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
Even countries!
Mikek
k...@att.bizzz
Nov 23, 2012, 6:51:00 PM11/23/12
to
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 13:29:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> Syd Rumpo wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
>>
>> >That's not to say that Obama isn't a
>> >theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
>>
>> Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
>
>
> More like 'Up a stream...'
No canoe.
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> Syd Rumpo wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like preconceived bias to me.
>>
>> >That's not to say that Obama isn't a
>> >theist, but at least he's mainstream - all part of the job.
>>
>> Obama is _mainstream_? You have to be kidding.
>
>
> More like 'Up a stream...'
>> Naaaah! All people are people. I don't know quite how you can pull
>> it off on a world-wide scale, but the student exchange program
>> provides the sort of exposure to others that causes you to regard them
>> as people rather than as "the enemy".
>
>
> Some foreign exchange students are delightful, like the daughter of a
>high ranking Brazilian general who used to visit our house. She was
>beautiful, and sang like an angel. :)
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 23, 2012, 7:28:26 PM11/23/12
to
Bill Sloman
Nov 23, 2012, 8:02:25 PM11/23/12
to
On Nov 24, 11:28 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Maybe he figures that Jim could use the education. Australians do
volunteer abroad (AVI) to educate the natives - not usually in the US,
but Jim does represent a pocket of particularly concentrated
ignorance.
http://www.australianvolunteers.com/
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
wrote:
volunteer abroad (AVI) to educate the natives - not usually in the US,
but Jim does represent a pocket of particularly concentrated
ignorance.
http://www.australianvolunteers.com/
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
Nov 23, 2012, 8:10:58 PM11/23/12
to
On 11/23/2012 10:12 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
> Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
> arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
Just how old was this student, Daddy? ;-)
> One of the most stressful moments of my life was when putting a
> Japanese exchange student on the plane back to Narita. She threw her
> arms around me and cried, "Daddy, I don't want to go!"
cameo
Nov 23, 2012, 8:16:22 PM11/23/12
to
On 11/23/2012 2:26 AM, who where wrote:
> No reason to beat yourself up.
No worry, just a little self-deprecating.
> No reason to beat yourself up.
P E Schoen
Nov 23, 2012, 10:43:43 PM11/23/12
to
"amdx" wrote in message news:a3e32$50affa49$d8baaf04$25...@KNOLOGY.NET...
The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Paul
have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
people from other countries value education and hard work and see
opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
Paul
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 7:13:19 AM11/24/12
to
On Nov 24, 2:43 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> "amdx" wrote in messagenews:a3e32$50affa49$d8baaf04$25...@KNOLOGY.NET...
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
>Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> even glorified.
Extreme poverty does that.
> Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
> and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
> Teenage pregnancy and lifelong welfare become the norms.
They don't. They are bad career choices, but if you don't know much
and haven't got enough sense to defer gratification, lots of people
get stuck with choices that they didn't really understand that they
were making.
>There are few jobs where such people can
> be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
> incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
> massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money..
Enough welfare, delivered early enough short circuits the whole mess -
or a least a great deal of it. Look at Germany.
> There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
> good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
> threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter.
And people who came from that background - like Jim Thompson - who
have a really strange idea of what a moral value might be,
> Most poor people from other countries value education and hard work and see
> opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
> often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
The ones who have the wit to recognise emigration as an option, and
the energy and application to move countries, are a heavily self-
selected group. They aren't representative of the relatives they left
behind.
> We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
> to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
> with more benefits for having babies.
But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
> All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
> annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> "amdx" wrote in messagenews:a3e32$50affa49$d8baaf04$25...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> > On 11/22/2012 7:14 PM, cameo wrote:
> >> Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
> >> the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
> >> busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
> >> Americans.
> >> Go, figure ...
> > Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
> > here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
> > view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
> > to me)
> > My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
> > skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
> > have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
> > college.
> > I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
> > and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
> > Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
> > Even countries!
>
> The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
The problem is the culture that lets inner-city poor people get as
> >> Yes, while those in the latter group figure out how to make a living,
> >> the beggars who hold up those "Don't have money to eat" signs at
> >> busy intersections and freeway off-ramps tend to be native born
> >> Americans.
> >> Go, figure ...
> > Yes, that has something to do with, those that come here, come
> > here to better themselves. Another point, they have a different
> > view about all the limiting rules and regulations. (they don't apply
> > to me)
> > My wife and family are immigrants. Came here, poor English
> > skills, no education to help them. But a couple of the siblings
> > have over a million in assets, most of their children went through
> > college.
> > I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
> > and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
> > Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
> > Even countries!
>
> The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people.
poor as the do. US welfare is rubbish. European welfare regimes rescue
the families earlier, and sustain them at a level where the kids don't
end up damaged.
>Family values have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> even glorified.
> Education is disrespected,
US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
exemplary.
> and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
> Teenage pregnancy and lifelong welfare become the norms.
and haven't got enough sense to defer gratification, lots of people
get stuck with choices that they didn't really understand that they
were making.
>There are few jobs where such people can
> be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
> incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
> massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money..
or a least a great deal of it. Look at Germany.
> There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
> good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
> threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter.
have a really strange idea of what a moral value might be,
> Most poor people from other countries value education and hard work and see
> opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
> often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
the energy and application to move countries, are a heavily self-
selected group. They aren't representative of the relatives they left
behind.
> We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
> to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
> with more benefits for having babies.
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
> All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
> annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
amdx
Nov 24, 2012, 10:19:35 AM11/24/12
to
10 states have welfare benefits equal to more than $11 per hour!
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Total amount of money you can make monthly and still receive Welfare $1000
Total Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than an $8 per
hour job. (40)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than a $12 per hour
job. (7)
Number of U.S. States where Welfare pays more than the average salary
of a U.S. Teacher. (9)
http://www.cato.org/research/pr-nd-st.html
Welfare Pays Better Than Work, Study Finds
$36,000 a Year in Hawaii
>
>> Education is disrespected,
>
> US inner-city education in low income neighbourhoods isn't exactly
> exemplary.
>
>> and even actual intelligence declines because of genetic and environmental factors.
>
> If you don't feed kids right, they can't pay attention in class, and
> don't play vigorously enough to develop their nervous systems fully.
> It's been researched, but only by "left-wing" researchers.
>
Funded breakfast program, for those parents who don't feed
their own children.
Even feeds those kids that have a tv in their bedroom and carry a
smart phone.
Mikek
mike
Nov 24, 2012, 10:35:15 AM11/24/12
to
On 11/22/2012 5:49 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
That says a lot!
> Peculiar folks those Americans. Though I've never been there I learned
> something about them. Most of it by reading newsgroups.
> petrus bitbyter
WhySoSerious?
Nov 24, 2012, 11:02:43 AM11/24/12
to
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
John Larkin
Nov 24, 2012, 11:24:39 AM11/24/12
to
Jim Thompson
Nov 24, 2012, 11:40:05 AM11/24/12
to
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 17:10:58 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
students did also.
wrote:
students did also.
hamilton
Nov 24, 2012, 12:03:51 PM11/24/12
to
The streets will be safer, right ??
Then there will be money to hirer more police.
Didn't Germany try this a few years ago.
h
cameo
Nov 24, 2012, 2:15:01 PM11/24/12
to
On 11/24/2012 8:40 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> 16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
> students did also.
Oh, good! I started worrying that you were a sugardaddy to her. ;-)
> 16-17. And my four kids always called me "Daddy", so the exchange
> students did also.
hifi-tek
Nov 24, 2012, 2:42:55 PM11/24/12
to
But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
> All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
> to being sterilized, or even as an
> annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill, where do you get your information? How do you ensure that the welfare
value out of the babies who have already been produced.
> All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
> to being sterilized, or even as an
> annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
relatively rapidly.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
gets spent on the kids? How do you administer the program so it locks out
wastage of welfare on booze, cigarettes, automobiles,drugs etc.? You spew
all this garbage and disparage everything we do here in the US, but then you
pepper your comments with might, could, maybe, should,possibly, etc. You are
sadly ignorant of human behavior. Being a bleeding heart liberal is all well
and fine, but if all you can do is trash the US and spew forth rainbow
colored fantisies, then you are not much use, and your comments/spoutings
would be best kept to yourself.
Meant sincerely,
Tom
Jim Thompson
Nov 24, 2012, 2:43:47 PM11/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:15:01 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
wrote:
father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
cameo
Nov 24, 2012, 2:57:35 PM11/24/12
to
On 11/24/2012 11:43 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
> father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
> but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
Oh, that curse of decency ...
> I've had that problem all my life... female employees considered me a
> father image, and always approached me with their personal problems...
> but never on a sugar-daddy level :-(
Jim Thompson
Nov 24, 2012, 3:03:36 PM11/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 11:57:35 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
Yep. Curses >:-}
wrote:
amdx
Nov 24, 2012, 3:26:25 PM11/24/12
to
trillion on welfare? The correct answer is no. Some might even say we
created the governmental dependent class, by creating welfare.
Mikek
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 3:59:37 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 25, 7:26 am, amdx <a...@knology.net> wrote:
> On 11/24/2012 11:03 AM, hamilton wrote:
> > On 11/24/2012 8:19 AM, amdx wrote:
> >> On 11/24/2012 6:13 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
> >>> On Nov 24, 2:43 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> >>>> "amdx" wrote in
> >>>> messagenews:a3e32$50affa49$d8baaf04$25...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> >>>>> On 11/22/2012 7:14 PM, cameo wrote:
<snip>
> On 11/24/2012 11:03 AM, hamilton wrote:
> > On 11/24/2012 8:19 AM, amdx wrote:
> >> On 11/24/2012 6:13 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
> >>> On Nov 24, 2:43 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> >>>> "amdx" wrote in
> >>>> messagenews:a3e32$50affa49$d8baaf04$25...@KNOLOGY.NET...
> >>>>> On 11/22/2012 7:14 PM, cameo wrote:
> Was this country any worse off in the 1960s than now, when we spend
> trillion on welfare? The correct answer is no.
living in the 1960's was lower, by pretty much every rational measure.
> Some might even say we created the governmental dependent class, by creating welfare.
another) weren't earning enough to live on and depended on charity
from their relatives, friends and society to live on.
Government welfare has taken over from private charity - to some
extent - and the poor are somewhat less likely to starve to death, or
die appreciably younger than the rest of society from the diseases
encouraged by not getting enough food, not getting enough of the right
sort of food, or living in sub-standard housing, or sleeping rough.
This hasn't created an impoverished class, but may have contributed to
keeping more of them alive.
US welfare doesn't seem to have been generous enough to let the
children in this impoverished class thrive, rather than survive, thus
giving them a change to do appreciably better than their parents, and
shrinking the next generation of candidates for the next generation of
the impoverished.
European welfare does seem to have done rather better - at least in
the advanced industrial countries with enough productive capacity to
afford that kind of welfare.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 4:05:56 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 25, 3:24 am, John Larkin
By which you presumably mean
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
statistics.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 4:22:48 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 25, 6:42 am, "hifi-tek" <t.hoeh...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
> value out of the babies who have already been produced.
>
> > All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
> > to being sterilized, or even as an
> > annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> > child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
>
> It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
> can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
> be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
> relatively rapidly.
>
> But it would make sense to increase the benefits enough to get better
> value out of the babies who have already been produced.
>
> > All it would take, I think, is to offer $5000 to anyone who will consent
> > to being sterilized, or even as an
> > annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
> > child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
>
> It didn't work in India. Supporting the kids well enough so that they
> can grow up fit for something more useful than criminal activity might
> be a better option. It would cost more up front, but starts paying off
> relatively rapidly.
>
> Bill, where do you get your information? How do you ensure that the welfare
> gets spent on the kids?
Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
> gets spent on the kids?
psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than paying it
to the fathers.
> How do you administer the program so it locks out
> wastage of welfare on booze, cigarettes, automobiles,drugs etc.?
> You spew all this garbage and disparage everything we do here in the US,
exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have done
any good anywhere it has been tried.
> but then you pepper your comments with might, could, maybe, should,possibly, etc.
if you looked outside God's only country you could find some examples
of countries that do do better, whose examples would seem to be worth
copying.
>You are sadly ignorant of human behavior.
>Being a bleeding heart liberal is all well
> and fine, but if all you can do is trash the US and spew forth rainbow
> colored fantisies,
is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
> then you are not much use,
point that my comments are essentially international comparisons,
rather than any kind of "fantasy".
>and your comments/spoutings would be best kept to yourself.
display yourself to be, my comments would have been a waste of
bandwidth - none so blind as those who do not wish to see.
> Meant sincerely,
I can believe the sincerity. The implied stupidity is a little more
implausible.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John Larkin
Nov 24, 2012, 5:06:38 PM11/24/12
to
hifi-tek
Nov 24, 2012, 5:51:03 PM11/24/12
to
"John Larkin" <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:g6h2b856s3bt71o1r...@4ax.com...
responses to the Aussie fool, that way I won't have to see his posts at all.
TIA,
Tom
>
>
John Fields
Nov 24, 2012, 6:04:53 PM11/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:06:38 -0800, John Larkin
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>It's useless to debate fools.
---
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>It's useless to debate fools.
No argument there...
--
JF
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 6:16:50 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 25, 9:51 am, "hifi-tek" <t.hoeh...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> "John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagew...
only tolerate it if it doesn't conflict with the childhood instruction
that taught him to believe that the US is the acme of perfection in
every respect. Non-fools learn to recognise and discount the lies they
were told as children - sometimes they can even learn enough to
realise why they were lied to in that particular way - but the rest
remain the complaisant and pliable citizens it was hoped they'd become
if they couldn't learn to think for themselves.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> "John Larkin" <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
>
> >>which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
> >>conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
> >>evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
> >>and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
> >>you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
> >>statistics.
>
> > It's useless to debate fools.
>
> Exactly. That's why I am killfilingSloman. I would appreciate no more
> >>which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
> >>conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
> >>evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
> >>and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
> >>you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
> >>statistics.
>
> > It's useless to debate fools.
>
> responses to the Aussie fool, that way I won't have to see his posts at all.
> TIA,
Clearly a foolish reaction. Tom obviously needs education, but will
> TIA,
only tolerate it if it doesn't conflict with the childhood instruction
that taught him to believe that the US is the acme of perfection in
every respect. Non-fools learn to recognise and discount the lies they
were told as children - sometimes they can even learn enough to
realise why they were lied to in that particular way - but the rest
remain the complaisant and pliable citizens it was hoped they'd become
if they couldn't learn to think for themselves.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 24, 2012, 6:17:59 PM11/24/12
to
On Nov 25, 9:06 am, John Larkin
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/world/europe/11iht-paris.html?pagew...
statistic, which does make you the fool.
I'm not debating with you - that's clearly a waste of time - but
merely documenting the defect in your argument.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:05:56 -0800 (PST),BillSloman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
> >conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
> >evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
> >and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
> >you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
> >statistics.
>
> It's useless to debate fools.
And you don't have the time or the enthusiasm to find the relevant
> >which dates from 2005, and documents a particular slum where
> >conditions had been bad enough to provoke a riot. It's anecdotal
> >evidence. Every country has black spots where unemployment is too high
> >and opportunities are hard to find - the US isn't short of them. If
> >you want to find fault with the policy, find some country wide
> >statistics.
>
> It's useless to debate fools.
statistic, which does make you the fool.
I'm not debating with you - that's clearly a waste of time - but
merely documenting the defect in your argument.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
P E Schoen
Nov 24, 2012, 7:00:01 PM11/24/12
to
"Bill Sloman" wrote in message
news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
> Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
> psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
> paying it to the fathers.
This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
would likely be even worse.
> Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
I think welfare should only be in the form of basic necessities such as
simple food and basic shelter. Beans and rice, for instance. Or some form of
MREs.
> I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
> exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
> You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
> better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
> right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have
> done any good anywhere it has been tried.
I'd be considered a leftist by most, but I fully support a voluntary (or
even "bribed") sterilization option, or even a bonus for staying baby-free
until education is complete and the person is working and can afford to have
children. AFAIK previous attempts have been somewhat "forced", and even
reasonable programs have been beaten down by truly delusional "bleedin'
heart" type liberals who scream that eugenics and selective birth control
are equivalent to Hitler's program of genocide.
I think the extremists on both the right and left feel that every child is a
gift from God, and that it is primarily the poverty that causes children to
have low IQ and sociopathic criminal tendencies, rather than genetics which
I think is at least 50% to 75% responsible, and easily fixed by birth
control.
> I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
> that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
> examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
> seem to be worth copying.
You can't duplicate the inherent intellectual capacity and strong family
values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
European countries from the US. We have had it relatively easy for a long
time with an abundance of natural resources and opportunities, as well as a
misguided attempt at the "Great Society" that LBJ hoped for.
> German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies?
> Neither is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
And from my limited experience in those countries, and with people from
there and elsewhere in Europe, their basic values are a good deal better
than those of many/most Americans. We have become exorbitantly spoiled by
materialistic wealth, and have pursued wrong-headed futile programs such as
Prohibition and the "War on Drugs" which compounded the problems and led to
violent criminality. That, mixed with a revolving door legal system and a
litigious philosophy which rewards stupidity and stifles personal
responsibility, has created a very unstable and dangerous condition. I felt
safe walking just about anywhere in Amsterdam and Frankfurt when I was there
(in 1979), but in Baltimore and other US cities - not so much.
I usually support Bill Sloman's positions, but I must challenge his
proposition that US welfare is not generous enough. I have personally seen,
or know from others who have had direct experience, how there is a very
different mindset among those who are perennially poor and cannot seem to
extricate themselves from their difficult positions. It is not because they
need more money, but rather they are in need of problem solving skills and
what most of us would consider common sense. And there is a culture of
violence and incivility that can be seen and heard in the music and other
forms of expression.
Paul
news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
> Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
> psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
> paying it to the fathers.
MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
would likely be even worse.
> Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
simple food and basic shelter. Beans and rice, for instance. Or some form of
MREs.
> I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
> exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
> You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
> better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
> right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have
> done any good anywhere it has been tried.
even "bribed") sterilization option, or even a bonus for staying baby-free
until education is complete and the person is working and can afford to have
children. AFAIK previous attempts have been somewhat "forced", and even
reasonable programs have been beaten down by truly delusional "bleedin'
heart" type liberals who scream that eugenics and selective birth control
are equivalent to Hitler's program of genocide.
I think the extremists on both the right and left feel that every child is a
gift from God, and that it is primarily the poverty that causes children to
have low IQ and sociopathic criminal tendencies, rather than genetics which
I think is at least 50% to 75% responsible, and easily fixed by birth
control.
> I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
> that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
> examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
> seem to be worth copying.
values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
European countries from the US. We have had it relatively easy for a long
time with an abundance of natural resources and opportunities, as well as a
misguided attempt at the "Great Society" that LBJ hoped for.
> German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies?
> Neither is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
there and elsewhere in Europe, their basic values are a good deal better
than those of many/most Americans. We have become exorbitantly spoiled by
materialistic wealth, and have pursued wrong-headed futile programs such as
Prohibition and the "War on Drugs" which compounded the problems and led to
violent criminality. That, mixed with a revolving door legal system and a
litigious philosophy which rewards stupidity and stifles personal
responsibility, has created a very unstable and dangerous condition. I felt
safe walking just about anywhere in Amsterdam and Frankfurt when I was there
(in 1979), but in Baltimore and other US cities - not so much.
I usually support Bill Sloman's positions, but I must challenge his
proposition that US welfare is not generous enough. I have personally seen,
or know from others who have had direct experience, how there is a very
different mindset among those who are perennially poor and cannot seem to
extricate themselves from their difficult positions. It is not because they
need more money, but rather they are in need of problem solving skills and
what most of us would consider common sense. And there is a culture of
violence and incivility that can be seen and heard in the music and other
forms of expression.
Paul
P E Schoen
Nov 24, 2012, 7:04:56 PM11/24/12
to
Forgot to add this link:
<http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/27/6545176-study-us-the-developed-country-with-highest-rate-of-single-parent-families-one-in-four-children-being-raised-by-one-parent>
I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
and commute long hours.
Paul
<http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/27/6545176-study-us-the-developed-country-with-highest-rate-of-single-parent-families-one-in-four-children-being-raised-by-one-parent>
I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
and commute long hours.
Paul
Jim Thompson
Nov 24, 2012, 7:44:51 PM11/24/12
to
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:00:01 -0500, "P E Schoen" <pa...@peschoen.com>
wrote:
>"Bill Sloman" wrote in message
>news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
>> psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
>> paying it to the fathers.
>
>This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
>MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
>single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
>there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
>would likely be even worse.
>
[snip]
Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
wrote:
>"Bill Sloman" wrote in message
>news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
>> psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
>> paying it to the fathers.
>
>This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
>MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
>single parent families, and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
>there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
>would likely be even worse.
>
Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
cameo
Nov 24, 2012, 11:19:27 PM11/24/12
to
On 11/23/2012 7:43 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
> The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
> have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
> declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
> and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
> people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
> cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
> would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
Indeed, but even so, there is a noticeable achievement gap between
> The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
> have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
> declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
> and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
> people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
> cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
> would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
American blacks and immigrant blacks. Initially those immigrants also
live in the same urban gettos, yet after a few years most of them are
able to move up to better jobs and neighborhoods. The big difference is
their value system, the presence of a father, and ambition to better
themselves. Such cultural change cannot be forced on the American blacks
by outsiders. It has to come from within. But that's not what is
preached by the black leaders, such as Jessy Jackson. Instead, they are
always telling their followers that their condition is the fault of the
white majority. Any successful black, who dares to stand up against them
are labelled as uncle toms, or worse.
Advancement has to start in the family which makes sure their kids do
attend school regularly, behave and obey the teachers when there. And,
of course, they do their home assignments as well. Parents, when their
children are disciplined in the school, should side with the teachers,
and not attack them as is too often the case.
Without these changes in the upringing of poor urban youth they cannot
be expected to have as successful adult lives as many of the poor
immigrants achieve who do bring with them a successful family model.
cameo
Nov 24, 2012, 11:32:58 PM11/24/12
to
On 11/24/2012 4:44 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
> them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
For their political purposes it was actually a brilliant move because
> Most often they're black... courtesy of Democrats "taking care" of
> them... think LBJ for village-idiot approaches to welfare.
ever since then the blacks vote overwhelmingly on Dems. Before LBJ, the
black vote ratio did not differ that much from the white vote.
Bill Sloman
Nov 25, 2012, 12:48:05 AM11/25/12
to
On Nov 25, 11:00 am, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> "Bill Sloman" wrote in message
>
> news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
> > psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
> > paying it to the fathers.
>
> This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
> MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
> single parent families,
Are you confusing "unwed mothers" with "single parent families"? The
> "Bill Sloman" wrote in message
>
> news:be8307e7-799b-4aeb...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Pay it to the mothers. It isn't entirely reliable - there are
> > psychopathic mothers - but it works a whole lot better than
> > paying it to the fathers.
>
> This is most often the case. Often the father is in jail, dead, or otherwise
> MIA. The US (followed closely by the UK), has the highest percentage of
> single parent families,
US and the UK have a lot of perfectly stable and conventional families
where the parents haven't bothered to get married, and the right-wing
statistics merchants aren't good at noticing that these families
aren't actually "single parent" families in any practical sense, and
proceed to predict the imminent melt-down of society.
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/75_PDF.pdf
> and most of them are poor. It's bad enough that
> there is no male role model, and if the father were around his influence
> would likely be even worse.
>
> > Pay it to the mothers, pay it out in food stamps and rent vouchers ...
>
> I think welfare should only be in the form of basic necessities such as
> simple food and basic shelter. Beans and rice, for instance. Or some form of
> MREs.
find it necessary to go this kind of trouble, and giving the lower
ranks of the social security system additional powers over the people
they are supposed to be helping has it's own downsides.
> > I don't disparage everything you do, but your welfare system isn't
> > exactly one that could be held up as an international success story.
> > You could do quite a lot better, and the right-wing ideas of doing
> > better start with sterilising the poor, which has been popular with
> > right-wing nitwits for quite a while now and never seems to have
> > done any good anywhere it has been tried.
>
> I'd be considered a leftist by most, but I fully support a voluntary (or
> even "bribed") sterilization option, or even a bonus for staying baby-free
> until education is complete and the person is working and can afford to have
> children. AFAIK previous attempts have been somewhat "forced", and even
> reasonable programs have been beaten down by truly delusional "bleedin'
> heart" type liberals who scream that eugenics and selective birth control
> are equivalent to Hitler's program of genocide.
> I think the extremists on both the right and left feel that every child is a
> gift from God, and that it is primarily the poverty that causes children to
> have low IQ and sociopathic criminal tendencies, rather than genetics which
> I think is at least 50% to 75% responsible, and easily fixed by birth
> control.
exactly the same - which it never is. Bad nutrition - which covers
rather more deficits than not having enough to eat - can suppress
anybody's IQ. It's fairly clear that intelligence - and the other
cognitive faculties that help people to do well in - and for - society
reflect a complicated mix of a lot of very different heritable
factors.
If you were to try to breed for "intelligence" you'd be forced to try
to stabilise a particular way of being intelligent, and you'd pay for
it with all the other problems you get when you go in for close in-
breeding.
Much better to accept that clever people - who are clever in many
different ways - pop up in every lineage from time to time, and run
your education system so that you find them early and take maximum
advantage of their particular skills.
>
> > I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
> > that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
> > examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
> > seem to be worth copying.
>
> You can't duplicate the inherent intellectual capacity and strong family
> values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
> European countries from the US.
Why would you think that? Got any evidence?
> > I'm not prescribing how you might to do better, just pointing out
> > that if you looked outside God's only country you could find some
> > examples of countries that do do better, whose examples would
> > seem to be worth copying.
>
> You can't duplicate the inherent intellectual capacity and strong family
> values and basic morality and ethics, which I think differentiate most
> European countries from the US.
>We have had it relatively easy for a long
> time with an abundance of natural resources and opportunities, as well as a
> misguided attempt at the "Great Society" that LBJ hoped for.
>
> > German and the Netherlands are "rainbow coloured" fantasies?
> > Neither is all that colourful, and both are decidedly real.
>
> And from my limited experience in those countries, and with people from
> there and elsewhere in Europe, their basic values are a good deal better
> than those of many/most Americans. We have become exorbitantly spoiled by
> materialistic wealth, and have pursued wrong-headed futile programs such as
> Prohibition and the "War on Drugs" which compounded the problems and led to
> violent criminality.
the US. The Dutch don't bother persecuting cannabis users - though
they still go after large scale importers. Netherlands has the same
sort of problems with violent criminality in the drug supply business
as the US, if on nowhere near as large a scale - with 17 million
people it simply happens less often.
>That, mixed with a revolving door legal system and a
> litigious philosophy which rewards stupidity and stifles personal
> responsibility, has created a very unstable and dangerous condition. I felt
> safe walking just about anywhere in Amsterdam and Frankfurt when I was there
> (in 1979), but in Baltimore and other US cities - not so much.
>
> I usually support Bill Sloman's positions, but I must challenge his
> proposition that US welfare is not generous enough. I have personally seen,
> or know from others who have had direct experience, how there is a very
> different mindset among those who are perennially poor and cannot seem to
> extricate themselves from their difficult positions. It is not because they
> need more money, but rather they are in need of problem solving skills and
> what most of us would consider common sense. And there is a culture of
> violence and incivility that can be seen and heard in the music and other
> forms of expression.
been inadequate for a few generations now. Ill-fed kids are hard to
educate in a lot of social skills. Civility has to be learned, just
like reading and writing, and kids who weren't in a state to take
advantage of formal education aren't going to be any better at
learning other skills.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 25, 2012, 12:58:48 AM11/25/12
to
> <http://carloz.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/27/6545176-study-us-the-deve...>
fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't do
any significant or detectable damage.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
> I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
> relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
> quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
> and commute long hours.
Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to work
> I might add that this does not only affect poor people, but also the
> relatively affluent where the children are mostly in day care and rarely get
> quality time with their parents, even in two-parent families where both work
> and commute long hours.
fine. Check out kibbutz children
http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/
It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't do
any significant or detectable damage.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 25, 2012, 1:28:33 AM11/25/12
to
On Nov 25, 3:19 pm, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/23/2012 7:43 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>
> > The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
> > have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> > even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
> > declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
> > and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
> > people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
> > cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
> > would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
>
> Indeed, but even so, there is a noticeable achievement gap between
> American blacks and immigrant blacks. Initially those immigrants also
> live in the same urban gettos, yet after a few years most of them are
> able to move up to better jobs and neighborhoods. The big difference is
> their value system, the presence of a father, and ambition to better
> themselves.
Actually, it's in growing up in a family that hasn't been taught that
> On 11/23/2012 7:43 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>
> > The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
> > have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
> > even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
> > declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy
> > and lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such
> > people can be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is
> > cheaper than incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which
> > would cause massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
>
> Indeed, but even so, there is a noticeable achievement gap between
> American blacks and immigrant blacks. Initially those immigrants also
> live in the same urban gettos, yet after a few years most of them are
> able to move up to better jobs and neighborhoods. The big difference is
> their value system, the presence of a father, and ambition to better
> themselves.
being "uppity" is a life-threatening disorder.
There's been sociological work on how "caste" systems work, and it's
clear that the lower castes are well-trained in not threatening their
betters by humiliating displays of competence.
http://www.amazon.com/Inequality-Design-Cracking-Bell-Curve/dp/0691028982
included an interesting chapter on the way the black Americans did
poorly on IQ tests - on the questions of the tests that they did do
they did as well as whites, but they were much more likely to leave
whole sections unanswered. The authors pulled up some of the
sociological works on caste systems to explain what would seem to have
been going on.
> Such cultural change cannot be forced on the American blacks
> by outsiders. It has to come from within.
> But that's not what is preached by the black leaders, such as
> Jessy Jackson. Instead, they are always telling their followers
> that their condition is the fault of the white majority.
> Any successful black, who dares to stand up against them
> are labelled as uncle toms, or worse.
the able have always been able to clear social barriers at a single
bound, but what has worked for them isn't going to work for the less
gifted.
> Advancement has to start in the family which makes sure their kids do
> attend school regularly, behave and obey the teachers when there. And,
> of course, they do their home assignments as well. Parents, when their
> children are disciplined in the school, should side with the teachers,
> and not attack them as is too often the case.
at university was having a near relative who been to university.
Relatives by marriage worked just as well as blood relatives. You've
got to understand why homework is important before you can be expected
to insist that your kids complete their assignments.
And expecting parents to automatically side with teachers rather
depends on the teachers being 100% right. This isn't generally true,
and can make life difficult for a parent dealing with an ill-informed,
insecure or psychopathic teacher.
> Without these changes in the up-bringing of poor urban youth they cannot
> be expected to have as successful adult lives as many of the poor
> immigrants achieve who do bring with them a successful family model.
Rome wasn't built in a day, but it's a poor excuse for not getting on
> immigrants achieve who do bring with them a successful family model.
and doing what you can to correct the errors of the past.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
P E Schoen
Nov 25, 2012, 2:21:56 AM11/25/12
to
"Bill Sloman" wrote in message
news:53866d57-c7f9-446c...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
> Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
> work fine. Check out kibbutz children
> http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misfits-the-kibbutz-experience/
> It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
> do any significant or detectable damage.
and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
Paul
Bill Sloman
Nov 25, 2012, 7:15:32 AM11/25/12
to
On Nov 25, 6:22 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> "BillSloman" wrote in message
> Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
> self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
Civilisation is about cooperation. Materialism, love of money and
desire for glory can all be means to getting that cooperation to work.
Idealism is fine, but other motivations shouldn't be neglected just
because they can be destructive if taken to excess or practiced in
isolation, and idealism on it's own can go seriously wrong.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> "BillSloman" wrote in message
>
> news:53866d57-c7f9-446c...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
> > work fine. Check out kibbutz children
> >http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misf...
> news:53866d57-c7f9-446c...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
> > work fine. Check out kibbutz children
> > It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
> > do any significant or detectable damage.
>
> I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
<snipped reasonable stuff>
> > do any significant or detectable damage.
>
> I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
> Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
> self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
desire for glory can all be means to getting that cooperation to work.
Idealism is fine, but other motivations shouldn't be neglected just
because they can be destructive if taken to excess or practiced in
isolation, and idealism on it's own can go seriously wrong.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
Nov 25, 2012, 1:00:14 PM11/25/12
to
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 20:32:58 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
Yep. Before LBJ I lived in a racially-mixed neighborhood. Nobody
noticed. All of us were just working stiffs. Primarily WWII Vets,
with well-kept houses and lawns.
Now that neighborhood is a slum. And so drug-ridden that it's scary
to drive thru.
wrote:
noticed. All of us were just working stiffs. Primarily WWII Vets,
with well-kept houses and lawns.
Now that neighborhood is a slum. And so drug-ridden that it's scary
to drive thru.
Jim Thompson
Nov 25, 2012, 1:03:57 PM11/25/12
to
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:21:56 -0500, "P E Schoen" <pa...@peschoen.com>
wrote:
Baloney put forth by a leftist who has never provided for or raised a
family.
Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.
Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}
wrote:
family.
Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.
Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}
Bill Sloman
Nov 25, 2012, 4:51:12 PM11/25/12
to
On Nov 26, 5:03 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:21:56 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"BillSloman" wrote in message
and entrepreneurs aren't lone wolves but rather leaders of their
little packs. Wolf society isn't a model for human society - it does
have a lot more in common with chimpanzee society - and neither has
evolved mechanism that let packs collaborate with other packs.
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 02:21:56 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"BillSloman" wrote in message
> >news:53866d57-c7f9-446c...@ah9g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
> >> work fine. Check out kibbutz children
>
> >>http://mainstreamparenting.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/a-society-of-misf...
>
> >> Parents aren't the only sources of parenting. Day care seems to
> >> work fine. Check out kibbutz children
>
>
> >> It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
> >> do any significant or detectable damage.
>
> >I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
> >and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
> >than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
> >on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
> >households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
> >What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
> >availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
> >with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
> >alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
> >children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
> >will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
> >Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
> >self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
>
> >Paul
>
> Baloney put forth by a leftist who has never provided for or raised a
> family.
>
> Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.
>
> Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}
Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson hasn't noticed that managers
> >> It seems to have been a less-than productive notion, but it didn't
> >> do any significant or detectable damage.
>
> >I firmly believe in the concept that "it takes a village to raise a child",
> >and thus kibbutzes and intentional communities and communes are even better
> >than the traditional nuclear family. The kibbutz, apparently, is also based
> >on strong religious and moral principles, which I see sorely lacking in many
> >households. I really don't give a fig if the parents are married or not.
> >What matters is their deep sense of rational morality and ethics, and their
> >availability as role models for their children. In an extended community
> >with a sense of common purpose and sharing, and an open-minded acceptance of
> >alternative lifestyles (as long as they are not violent or destructive),
> >children should grow up with a more varied and healthier experience that
> >will enable them to cope with a fast changing and uncertain society.
> >Materialism and love of money and individual glory are the ingredients of a
> >self-destructive civilization. Lone wolves die; the pack survives.
>
> >Paul
>
> Baloney put forth by a leftist who has never provided for or raised a
> family.
>
> Indeed packs survive... you can find them in every slum.
>
> Lone wolves become managers and entrepreneurs >:-}
and entrepreneurs aren't lone wolves but rather leaders of their
little packs. Wolf society isn't a model for human society - it does
have a lot more in common with chimpanzee society - and neither has
evolved mechanism that let packs collaborate with other packs.
Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
cameo
Nov 25, 2012, 10:00:46 PM11/25/12
to
On 11/25/2012 1:51 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
> Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
> may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
> redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
> electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
How lucky we are to have you here to teach us about the rest.
> Providing for and raising a family hasn't exactly educated Jim - he
> may be proud of having done it, but it's left him the same ignorant
> redneck that he was when he went to MIT and learned quite a lot about
> electronics, and nothing much about anything else.
Aren't you just a bit too full of yourself?
Michael A. Terrell
Nov 25, 2012, 11:37:15 PM11/25/12
to
more like a single Hydrogen atom in a 55 gallon drum.
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 12:55:44 AM11/26/12
to
On Nov 26, 2:00 pm, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/25/2012 1:51 PM,BillSlomanwrote:
>
> On 11/25/2012 1:51 PM,BillSlomanwrote:
>
FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
of himself.
As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
information.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 1:00:49 AM11/26/12
to
On Nov 26, 3:37 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Mike does love these little analogies. He was a technician - and
apparently a very good one - and he has the usual technicians
scepticism about engineers, and the usual technicians inability to
follow what's actually going on over his head.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
wrote:
apparently a very good one - and he has the usual technicians
scepticism about engineers, and the usual technicians inability to
follow what's actually going on over his head.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
josephkk
Nov 26, 2012, 4:31:48 AM11/26/12
to
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:43:43 -0500, "P E Schoen" <pa...@peschoen.com>
wrote:
>
>good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
>threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
>people from other countries value education and hard work and see
>opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
>often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
>
>We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
>to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
>with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes. Disgusting.
See:
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
?-)
wrote:
>
>> I would not have done as well if not for my wife's frugal living
>> and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
>
>> Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
>> Even countries!
>
>> and rock solid perseverance. (don't tell her) ah she already knows!
>
>> Funny thing, living under your means. More people should try it.
>> Even countries!
>
>The problem is the culture of most inner-city poor people. Family values
>have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
>even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
>declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
>lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
>be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
>incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
>massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
>
>There are truly destitute people, mostly in Appalachia, who have relatively
>have largely broken down, and crime, drugs, and violence are rampant and
>even glorified. Education is disrespected, and even actual intelligence
>declines because of genetic and environmental factors. Teenage pregnancy and
>lifelong welfare become the norms. There are few jobs where such people can
>be productive, and welfare may be just an expedient which is cheaper than
>incarceration which would result if it were revoked, which would cause
>massive crime sprees and riots. Hush money...
>
>good moral and ethical values, and often struggle to survive with real
>threats of starvation, malnutrition, and insufficient shelter. Most poor
>people from other countries value education and hard work and see
>opportunities here for themselves and their families. They live frugally and
>often send much of their money home, even making minimum wage.
>
>We do need to find an alternative to this situation, and the answer IMHO is
>to reduce the procreation of people on welfare, rather than rewarding them
>with more benefits for having babies. All it would take, I think, is to
>offer $5000 to anyone who will consent to being sterilized, or even as an
>annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
>child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
>
>Paul
>annual bonus if they avoid pregnancy. Much cheaper than supporting another
>child who will probably eventually be involved in criminal activity.
>
Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
popular stereotypes. Disgusting.
See:
www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
?-)
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 7:09:24 AM11/26/12
to
On Nov 26, 8:31 pm, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:43:43 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
merely asserting that they remain too high.
Since he is also asserting that what's important is the proportion of
teenage mothers who are single parents, as opposed to mothers in a
stable and persisting relationship - an issue which your document
doesn't address at all - you aren't actually addressing the substance
of his comments.
One could reasonably argue that the decline in teenage birthrates has
been concentrated in the more responsible fraction of the female
teenage population, and that it's the residual population of feckless
nitwits who are still having children they can't look after properly,
let alone raise to become responsible adults.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:43:43 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
> Ya know Paul it is really astounding just how far you have bought into the
> popular stereotypes. Disgusting.
>
> See:
>
> www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
I don't think that he is denying that teenage births are decreasing,
> popular stereotypes. Disgusting.
>
> See:
>
> www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf
merely asserting that they remain too high.
Since he is also asserting that what's important is the proportion of
teenage mothers who are single parents, as opposed to mothers in a
stable and persisting relationship - an issue which your document
doesn't address at all - you aren't actually addressing the substance
of his comments.
One could reasonably argue that the decline in teenage birthrates has
been concentrated in the more responsible fraction of the female
teenage population, and that it's the residual population of feckless
nitwits who are still having children they can't look after properly,
let alone raise to become responsible adults.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Jim Thompson
Nov 26, 2012, 10:24:25 AM11/26/12
to
Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
cameo
Nov 26, 2012, 2:08:15 PM11/26/12
to
On 11/25/2012 9:55 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
> I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
> FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
> malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
> might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
> set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
> of himself.
Where do you get this thing about Jim and FBI? Sounds like a paranoid
> I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
> FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
> malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
> might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
> set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
> of himself.
delusion.
> As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
> can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
> and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
> information.
peddling left-wing agit-prop as "education." Mybe you should try yo work
for a living at least part of the day. Didn't you write a while back
that you still wanted to work despite of your retirement age?
cameo
Nov 26, 2012, 2:14:51 PM11/26/12
to
On 11/26/2012 7:24 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
> people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
> on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
But I also heard that lately the Obama administration is trying to wean
> Having had grandparents who lived there, Appalachia is full of poor
> people, who have no debt, own their own home and farm land... and piss
> on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
them off that dangerous independent life style and convince them of the
advantages of food stamps and other available federal aid programs they
are "entitled" to.
Jim Thompson
Nov 26, 2012, 2:18:41 PM11/26/12
to
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:14:51 -0800, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid>
wrote:
Yep. I've heard that also. But I doubt if it'll "take". Even I have
to be careful driving back thru those hills... driving one of them
thar' furrin cars sets them off :-)
wrote:
to be careful driving back thru those hills... driving one of them
thar' furrin cars sets them off :-)
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 5:15:59 PM11/26/12
to
On Nov 27, 6:08 am, cameo <ca...@unreal.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/25/2012 9:55 PM,BillSlomanwrote:
times.
I've got no evidence that he actually did anything, but he's not into
subtle humour.
> > As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
> > can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
> > and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
> > information.
>
> Well, at least I don't presume to do what you do here all day long:
> peddling left-wing agit-prop as "education."
You clearly haven't been exposed to left-wing agit-prop, if you get
restive about being exposed to the results of regular academic
sociological research.
> Maybe you should try to work for a living at least part of the day.
It's been an ambition for almost ten years now. While I was stuck in
the Netherlands, the endemic ageism made it a futile ambition - I got
a couple of job interviews before I turned 65, but nothing after
that. Australia isn't quite as bad - I've still yet to get a job
interview, but I've talked to a guy at an employment agency (who
didn't like my chances in the immediate future) and I'm going out this
afternoon to talk to a guy who might be able to use me if the right
customer shows up.
> Didn't you write a while back that you still wanted to work despite of your retirement age?
True. But the prospects aren't promising.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
> On 11/25/2012 9:55 PM,BillSlomanwrote:
>
> > I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
> > FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
> > malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
> > might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
> > set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
> > of himself.
>
> Where do you get this thing about Jim and FBI? Sounds like a paranoid
> delusion.
It's his paranoid delusion - he's boasted about doing it here several
> > I'm entitled to give Jim a hard time. He notified his friends at the
> > FBI that I was dangerously anti-American, which was both foolish and
> > malicious. That fact that it must have destroyed any credibility he
> > might have had with his friends at the FBI should have been enough to
> > set him right, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that he made an ass
> > of himself.
>
> Where do you get this thing about Jim and FBI? Sounds like a paranoid
> delusion.
times.
I've got no evidence that he actually did anything, but he's not into
subtle humour.
> > As for being too full of myself, do find some proposition where you
> > can prove me wrong - it happens from time to time, but not very often,
> > and you don't promise to be a fruitful source of educational
> > information.
>
> Well, at least I don't presume to do what you do here all day long:
> peddling left-wing agit-prop as "education."
restive about being exposed to the results of regular academic
sociological research.
> Maybe you should try to work for a living at least part of the day.
It's been an ambition for almost ten years now. While I was stuck in
the Netherlands, the endemic ageism made it a futile ambition - I got
a couple of job interviews before I turned 65, but nothing after
that. Australia isn't quite as bad - I've still yet to get a job
interview, but I've talked to a guy at an employment agency (who
didn't like my chances in the immediate future) and I'm going out this
afternoon to talk to a guy who might be able to use me if the right
customer shows up.
> Didn't you write a while back that you still wanted to work despite of your retirement age?
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 5:21:39 PM11/26/12
to
On Nov 27, 2:24 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-
> >On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:43:43 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
If they knew enough to be able to try to borrow money, the banks
wouldn't lend it to them
> own their own home and farm land... and piss
> on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
It's unlikely that they see the significance of any social
organisation outside of their 150-odd person tribe.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:31:48 -0800, josephkk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 01:31:48 -0800, josephkk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 22:43:43 -0500, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com>
wouldn't lend it to them
> own their own home and farm land... and piss
> on the Feds at every opportunity ;-)
organisation outside of their 150-odd person tribe.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman
Nov 26, 2012, 5:35:41 PM11/26/12
to
Peasants come in a wide range of different varieties. Jim's family
might have owned their own farm, but they were active in the larger
economy, and wouldn't have been remotely eligible for food stamps.
Small farms don't support a particularly comfortable life-style, and
modern Europe has been "rationalising" agriculture for the past
century or so. In Australia, the number of people engaged in
agriculture peaked in the 1890's and has been declining every since as
mechanisation progressively increased the productivity of individual
agricultural workers.
Peasant farmers on small farms don't have the capital to mechanise
quite as dramatically, and rarely want to sell their land and more
into some other business, so the French and Germans have rationalised
their agriculture rather more slowly.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages