PCB drilling: problem solved
hon...@yahoo.com
hon...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been drilling PCBs for years with a regular handheld electric
> drill and non-carbide bits. I've had surprisingly good results and
> broke very few bits. But holding that drill does get old after about
> 100 holes.
>
> I'm looking for an alternative solution to this. A drill press at
> www.micromark.com looks decent for 150-200 USD. How about a Dremel?
> This seems like an ideal solution, but I've been reading a lot about
> the Dremel drill press stands that aren't precise enough (too much
> wobble for carbide bits). Ebay has a lot of super-cheap small drill
> presses, but the price makes me think they're junk.
>
> What does everyone do, besides pay a PCB house?
I solved my problem. I liked the idea of a Dremel and a drill press
stand, but didn't like the grumblings about the rigidity of the stand.
I know some have claimed the older stands are better, but didn't want
to mess with it.
So, I found another company that makes rotory tools and a nice sturdy
stand. Proxxon, which I know someone here has mentioned, makes a very
nice rotary tool, and a very solid stand, although with a bit of "made
in Taiwan" cheapness. But the stand is solid as far as drilling is
concerned.
BTW the rotary tool doesn't seem cheap at all, and is made in DE and LU.
Bobo The Chimp
Deustchland and Lusitania? ;-P
--
Cheers!
Rich^H^H^H^HBoBo
hon...@yahoo.com
Bobo The Chimp wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:05:10 -0700, hondgm wrote:
> > hon...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> I've been drilling PCBs for years with a regular handheld electric drill
> >> and non-carbide bits. I've had surprisingly good results and broke very
> >> few bits. But holding that drill does get old after about 100 holes.
> >>
> >> I'm looking for an alternative solution to this. A drill press at
> >> www.micromark.com looks decent for 150-200 USD. How about a Dremel?
> >> This seems like an ideal solution, but I've been reading a lot about the
> >> Dremel drill press stands that aren't precise enough (too much wobble
> >> for carbide bits). Ebay has a lot of super-cheap small drill presses,
>
> >
>
> Deustchland and Lusitania? ;-P
> --
> Cheers!
> Rich^H^H^H^HBoBo
You're half right.
a7yvm1...@netzero.com
with solder mask and silkscreen made, how can you afford the tools,
chemicals, materials, time and space to futz around to end up with an
inferior product in every way?
The mentality of you DIY PCB guys baffles me totally.
Rich Grise
If you only have enough money for a $3.00 board, and $2.00 worth of
etchant, and need it right now ...
Well, you "appliance operators" have never understood "Real Hobbyists"
anyway. ;-) ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Jeff Findley
"Rich Grise" <ri...@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.10.19....@example.net...
> If you only have enough money for a $3.00 board, and $2.00 worth of
> etchant, and need it right now ...
>
> Well, you "appliance operators" have never understood "Real Hobbyists"
> anyway. ;-) ;-)
Yep. I needed four (peripheral) USB jacks for a recent project. I ended up
buying four iPod Shuffle (old style) docking stations on clearance at Radio
Shack for $3. Not only did they have the socket I needed, but also came
with cables and other goodies I can use. ;-)
For me this really is a hobby, so I really don't have any deadlines to meet.
And since I've got three kids, I've got little money for the hobby to begin
with.
Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)
Tim Auton
Who says people who make DIY PCBs can't afford professionally made ones?
I roll my own because I can have a finished board in a couple of hours
rather than a couple of weeks.
Tim
Leon
Speed is the reason I do it, I can make a prototype PCB at home in
about 30 minutes.
Leon
Nico Coesel
Exactly! I keep my etching machine around just in case I want a simple
PCB quick.
--
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
bungalo...@yahoo.com
if you pay an extra $10 for fedex delievery, you can have shipped
overnight
bungalo...@yahoo.com
if you pay an extra $10 for fedex delievery, you can have shipped
overnight
James Thompson
<a7yvm1...@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1161307519.8...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
fly up there. Because we can make our own and prototypes don't have to be
made with professional pcb's, they just have to work.
DJ Delorie
bungalo...@yahoo.com writes:
> if you pay an extra $10 for fedex delievery, you can have shipped
> overnight
You also have to pay for rush service *buildling* the board, which can
sometimes double the price. And you still won't have it for a few
days, because it still takes 1-2 days to make the board, plus a day to
ship it. The last board I had made took almost three weeks from
ordering to possession, because I couldn't justify the cost of "fast"
service.
You can mask, etch, and drill a board in about an hour. I do my own
boards for all my one-shot boards (i.e. prototypes, test boards,
socket adapters, etc), but send out for the "final" boards. I might
revise a board a few times in a day before I get it right.
Plus it's more fun to do it yourself sometimes.
DJ Delorie
bungalo...@yahoo.com writes:
> if you pay an extra $10 for fedex delievery, you can have shipped
> overnight
"Fedex. When it absolutely, positively, doesn't have to be there
until tomorrow."
hon...@yahoo.com
It's not a matter of being able to afford it. I'm impatient, and it's
not economical for me. Did I mention I'm impatient?
The last board I did, just a week or two ago, is single side, all
through hole, and would cost $60 USD total from PCBCART in 7 days. I
only need one. No soldermask, silkscreen, nothing extra.
All my tools/materials for doing my own cost much less than $200.
Chemicals and consumable materials are cheap. $60 for one 3.5x7 inch,
single side board. Plus I wait a FULL WEEK. That's about 1/3 the cost
of my tools/materials alone.
How does it make sense again to have a PCB house make all your PCBs??
Barry Lennox
The mentality of the out-source brigade baffles me. Despite all the
PCB house promises, and their "premium-rush" charges, they always seem
to end up a day late with creative excuses "Ah-ha we received the
files at 0802, they must be there by 0800" --- "It's a public holiday
in Mongolia" ---- : "We had them our ready, but the Fedex guy missed
his pickup, real bad luck" and so on. There seems to be no way to
get a PCB in less than 3-4 days. Even goofing about, I can make a
prototype in a couple of hours.
DJ Delorie
And before anyone mentions "precision"...
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/first.html
That's an 01005 capacitor next to a TVSOP (0.4mm pitch) part,
hand-soldered onto a home-made board. Photo taken with a microscope.
YD
immortal opus:
For the investment you can make many boards, with a significant
reduction in per board cost, even the one-offs.
Hobbyists don't care about the extra time and labor, they do it for
fun.
Some designers make initial prototypes, it's a lot faster than waiting
for the boardhouse to get off its ass.
That said, if a design is done and is sellable it's time to send it
off for professional fabrication.
- YD.
--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.
martin griffith
hon...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>bungalo...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Tim Auton wrote:
>> > a7yvm1...@netzero.com wrote:
>> > > If you can't afford 33$ to have a two-sided plated-through-hole board
>It's not a matter of being able to afford it. I'm impatient, and it's
>not economical for me. Did I mention I'm impatient?
>The last board I did, just a week or two ago, is single side, all
>through hole, and would cost $60 USD total from PCBCART in 7 days. I
>only need one. No soldermask, silkscreen, nothing extra.
>
>All my tools/materials for doing my own cost much less than $200.
>Chemicals and consumable materials are cheap. $60 for one 3.5x7 inch,
>single side board. Plus I wait a FULL WEEK. That's about 1/3 the cost
>of my tools/materials alone.
>
>How does it make sense again to have a PCB house make all your PCBs??
So you only have one design happening at a time?
Work on one thing, send off the gerbers, start the next idea, by the
time you are bored with that the PCBs will have arrived, so you can
get un/board/bored playing on the workbench, then when you get bored
back to the next or last but one idea.
and nothing ever gets finished :-)
martin
Nico Coesel
hon...@yahoo.com
Yeah, I got something going on like that. I've been working on it
since the start of the year, here and there. I've already made one
nice build on a PCB, but I found out the hard way that the switching
regulator doesn't like long traces!
I'll get it done some day.....
Rich Grise
I designed a little double-sided board once, that I could make 6 of out
of one piece of PCB material. I took my tape-up (Yes, tape on mylar, with
some ink here and there) to a photo shop guy, and asked him i fhe could
print it 6-up, registered. He said, "No Problem!" It wasn't very
expensive. I exposed the board in the afternoon sun and etched it in the
driveway.
It worked, and it was great fun!
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
> hon...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>bungalo...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Tim Auton wrote:
>>> > a7yvm1...@netzero.com wrote:
>>> > > If you can't afford 33$ to have a two-sided plated-through-hole board
>
>>It's not a matter of being able to afford it. I'm impatient, and it's
>>not economical for me. Did I mention I'm impatient?
>>The last board I did, just a week or two ago, is single side, all
>>through hole, and would cost $60 USD total from PCBCART in 7 days. I
>>only need one. No soldermask, silkscreen, nothing extra.
>>
>>All my tools/materials for doing my own cost much less than $200.
>>Chemicals and consumable materials are cheap. $60 for one 3.5x7 inch,
>>single side board. Plus I wait a FULL WEEK. That's about 1/3 the cost
>>of my tools/materials alone.
>>
>>How does it make sense again to have a PCB house make all your PCBs??
>
> So you only have one design happening at a time?
Uh, we _were_ talking about hobbyists here, weren't we? How workaholic
are you? ;-)
Thanks,
Rich
Leon
What size tracks are those?
I can do 5 mil tracks at home, but I haven't tried anything like that.
I normally use 10 mil.
Leon
DJ Delorie
0.2mm 7.8mil
> I can do 5 mil tracks at home, but I haven't tried anything like
> that. I normally use 10 mil.
I added some test lines to that board; my process seems to make the
lines thicker and the spaces thinner. It can do 5 mil lines but wants
7 mil space. It depends on how long I etch it, and whether I use 1 or
0.5 oz, and whether I physically rub it or just agitate.