If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that.

[amdx]

How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,

"If you�ve got a business�you didn�t build that. Somebody else made that
happen."

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/


Mikek

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500, amdx <am...@knology.net> wrote:

> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

>"If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
>happen."
>
>http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
>
>
> Mikek

"All Good Things Come From God" Paul's prayer for the Ephesians

"All Good Things Come From Government" Obama's prayer for class
warfare

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[Greegor]

"If you've got a business you didn t build that.

Somebody else made that happen." - Obama

What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:46:37 PM UTC+2, Greegor wrote:
> &quot;If you&#39;ve got a business you didn t build that.
> Somebody else made that happen.&quot; - Obama

>
> What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?

Some capitalists are also aware that innovation involves both competition and collaboration.

Selective quotation is standard way of demonising the opposition.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-if-youve-got-business-you-didnt-build-somebody-else-made-happen

found it necessary to point out that Obama also said "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together".

Trying building a hi-tech business in the Sudan, or Tasmania, if you've got so much faith in your own prowess.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[amdx]

Sloman, is that you? :-)
Mikek

[Bill Sloman]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:51:39 PM UTC+2, amdx wrote:
> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> &quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> happen.&quot;
>
> http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/

In fact what he went on to say was "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-if-youve-got-business-you-didnt-build-somebody-else-made-happen

Trust a card-carrying right-wing nitwit to miss the the half of the story.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:14:23 -0500, amdx <am...@knologynotthis.net>
wrote:

Sloman only exists when troll-fed... otherwise totally unseen.

[Bill Sloman]

On 7/17/2012 8:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:14:23 -0500, amdx <am...@knologynotthis.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/17/2012 12:44 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:46:37 PM UTC+2, Greegor wrote:
>>>> &quot;If you&#39;ve got a business you didn t build that.
>>>> Somebody else made that happen.&quot; - Obama
>>>>
>>>> What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?
>>>
>>> Some capitalists are also aware that innovation involves both competition and collaboration.
>>>
>>> Selective quotation is standard way of demonising the opposition.
>>>
>>> http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-if-youve-got-business-you-didnt-build-somebody-else-made-happen
>>>
>>> found it necessary to point out that Obama also said "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together".
>>>
>>> Trying building a hi-tech business in the Sudan, or Tasmania, if you've got so much faith in your own prowess.
>>>
>>
>> Sloman, is that you? :-)
>> Mikek
>
> Sloman only exists when troll-fed... otherwise totally unseen.

How on earth would Jim know that? He kill-filed me years ago, and only
comes across my posts embedded in responses from other right-wing
nitwits that he hasn't yet got around to kill-filing.

He's too far out of touch with reality to realised that this may have
biased his perceptions.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[John Fields]

---
I think it goes deeper than that.

Obama is Muslim, and while Islam acknowledges "People of the book"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book

they're considered inferior because the Qur'an is considered by
Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Islam's aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political
movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought
of the world's population to the point where resistance to the tenets
of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.

---
Obama's part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
use his "authority" to weaken us to the point where we eventually
become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
mercy.

--
JF

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 17, 7:51 am, amdx <a...@knology.net> wrote:
>    How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> "If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> happen."
>
> http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
>

If you've got a business you didn't, without help "create this
unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive."
We all did it, us and our forebears.

"There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me,
because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -
look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own.
You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who
think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot
of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than
everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch
of hardworking people out there.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.
There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to
create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you
to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a
business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The
Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created
the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
Internet."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/

[lang...@fonz.dk]

On 18 Jul., 00:02, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
>

> <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"If you've got a business you didn t build that.
> >  Somebody else made that happen." - Obama
>
> >What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?
>
> ---
> I think it goes deeper than that.
>
> Obama is Muslim, and while Islam acknowledges "People of the book"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
>
> they're considered inferior because the Qur'an is considered by
> Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
> scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
>
> Islam's aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political
> movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought
> of the world's population to the point where resistance to the tenets
> of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.

seems to be the aim of most religions, political parties on both end
of the spectrum and a few nations ...

>
> ---
> Obama's part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
> use his "authority" to weaken us to the point where we eventually
> become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
> mercy.
>

how is that tin foil hat working for you?

-Lasse

[John Fields]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:53:16 -0700 (PDT), "lang...@fonz.dk"
<lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

>On 18 Jul., 00:02, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
>>
>> <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >"If you've got a business you didn t build that.
>> >  Somebody else made that happen." - Obama
>>
>> >What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?
>>
>> ---
>> I think it goes deeper than that.
>>
>> Obama is Muslim, and while Islam acknowledges "People of the book"
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
>>
>> they're considered inferior because the Qur'an is considered by
>> Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
>> scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
>>
>> Islam's aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political
>> movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought
>> of the world's population to the point where resistance to the tenets
>> of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.
>
>seems to be the aim of most religions, political parties on both end
>of the spectrum and a few nations ...

---

Indeed.

Was I wrong, then?
---

>> ---
>> Obama's part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
>> use his "authority" to weaken us to the point where we eventually
>> become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
>> mercy.
>>
>
>how is that tin foil hat working for you?

---
That you don't see the writing on the wall isn't my fault, demeaning
it as fantasy is yours.

--
JF

[John Larkin]

The idiot is moralizing, but he clearly doesn't understand where jobs
and wealth come from.

There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren't thriving. The
counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
to Washington DC.

Obama himself has big-money personal investments in Apple and GE,
major job exporters. GE pays no corporate income tax, and Obama gets
the dividends.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation

[John Fields]

---
Agreed.

Jobs in the mainstream he could care less about, but personal wealth
is what he aspires to.
---

>There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren't thriving. The
>counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
>to Washington DC.

---
Cite?
---

>Obama himself has big-money personal investments in Apple and GE,
>major job exporters. GE pays no corporate income tax, and Obama gets
>the dividends.

---
Cite?

--
JF

[Greegor]

Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.
They discount any individual accomplishment
and try to coopt it as a communal victory.

[spamtrap1888]

Consider then that Obama was raised by a single mother, while Romney
was raised by the President of the American Motors Company (including
Kelvinator appliances.)

Who accomplished more on his own?

[Jim Thompson]

You're clueless to the Mormon way of raising their children. Have
_you_ gone on a multi-year mission for _your_ church? Mitt Romney
did.

I have many Mormon friends... though I don't hanker to their style of
religion, they're very nice people.

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

...and who accomplished more by affirmative action?

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 17, 6:03 pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The
> Internet didn’t get invented on its own.  Government research created
> the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
> Internet."
>

Wrong. Darpa invented the internet to increase the effectiveness of
researchers.

The internet did not become commercial until browsers were created.

Dan

[John Larkin]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/dc-is-nations-richest-met_n_1019913.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/city-lowest-unemployment-rate-state-2012-6?op=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

>---
>
>>Obama himself has big-money personal investments in Apple and GE,
>>major job exporters. GE pays no corporate income tax, and Obama gets
>>the dividends.
>
>---
>Cite?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-has-investments-in-companies-that-ship-jobs-overseas/article/2502361

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:46:12 -0700 (PDT), "dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org>
wrote:

>On Jul 17, 6:03�pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >�The
>> Internet didn�t get invented on its own. �Government research created
>> the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
>> Internet."
>>
>
>Wrong. Darpa invented the internet to increase the effectiveness of
>researchers.

IP was designed as a war tool (routing redundancy was the prime design
criteria).

>The internet did not become commercial until browsers were created.

Mosaic, out of the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the
University of Illinois.

[bule...@columbus.rr.com]

On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:51:39 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> &quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> happen.&quot;
>
> http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
>
>
> Mikek

I am going to state the obvious. It is true that successful people rely on others. What Obama does not recognize is that successful people engage in private deals with other people to do a certain amount of work for them and , if the businessman is successful, he has a track record of making private deals (without gov't help) which are beneficial to himself and to the people he makes deals with. It is beyond real that Obama refuses to understand the American way of private people making private deals in a free market system. The private system works because every business man has ultimate incentive to make good deals. government deal, with taxpayer money, the incentive to make good deals is not there and that is why government ventures in business are destined to be full of waste and corruption.

[Les Cargill]

Neither one.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill]

bule...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:51:39 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>>

>> &quot;If you�ve got a business�you didn�t build that. Somebody else

>> made that happen.&quot;
>>
>> http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
>>
>>
>>
>>
Mikek
>
> I am going to state the obvious. It is true that successful people
> rely on others. What Obama does not recognize is that successful
> people engage in private deals with other people to do a certain
> amount of work for them and , if the businessman is successful, he
> has a track record of making private deals (without gov't help) which
> are beneficial to himself and to the people he makes deals with.

Hypothetically, through the magic of the economics concept of "consumer
surplus", it *oughta* be beneficial to a lot of
other people, too.

These days, that's harder to say that categorically. It's just
my opinion, but I think a lot of people were chasing unrealistic
levels of return. That might have actually reduced output
in a way that's just now really easy to see. That led to
poor investment. A lot of deals shouldn't have been done.

> It
> is beyond real that Obama refuses to understand the American way of
> private people making private deals in a free market system.

I don't see any evidence of that in the snippet we were shown. I
don't think Obama has much idea about that sort of thing, but the
idea that every politician should have run a business doesn't hold a lot
of water. Did Eisenhower? No. Teddy Roosevelt? No.

If anything, the main thing in surveys over the past ... ten years?
that people have been concerned about is a lack of customers. It is as
if there simply isn't enough cash sloshing around.

> The
> private system works because every business man has ultimate
> incentive to make good deals. government deal, with taxpayer money,
> the incentive to make good deals is not there

There are a lot of incentives to spend wisely in government. the
problem with government spending is that risk is harder to dissipate
when it goes wrong. Government is also prone to overbuilding
purchasing systems to where just being able to manage *that* can
run into a significant fraction of the cost.

The cyclical nature of contracting is also a big source
of waste - keeping people productive and on good contracts is
quite difficult.

I know of two companies trying to do a couple of pretty serious
military contracts - one is fairly critical - and they just
can't get the military end lined up. People get reassigned
before the cycle ends, and they're off the thing for the rest
of the year.

> and that is why
> government ventures in business are destined to be full of waste and
> corruption.
>

Not always. Maybe it was just the times, but things like
Hoover Dam were under budget. The "corruption" part is also
a lot order to see. Absence of market discipline doesn't
always mean corruption.

--
Les Cargill

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:02:59 AM UTC+2, John Fields wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT), Greegor

> &lt;gree...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;&quot;If you&#39;ve got a business you didn t build that.
> &gt; Somebody else made that happen.&quot; - Obama
> &gt;
> &gt;What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?

>
> ---
> I think it goes deeper than that.
>
> Obama is Muslim,

to the same extent that he's a socialist ...

It's a delusion that I had thought to be restricted to particularly fatuous right-wing nitwits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_religion_conspiracy_theories

> and while Islam acknowledges &quot;People of the book&quot;
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
>
> they&#39;re considered inferior because the Qur&#39;an is considered by

> Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
> scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
>

> Islam&#39;s aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political

> movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought

> of the world&#39;s population to the point where resistance to the tenets

> of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.
>
> ---

> Obama&#39;s part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
> use his &quot;authority&quot; to weaken us to the point where we eventually

> become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
> mercy.

Maybe John Fields has taken up irony in his old age. I can't imagine him seriously posting this kind of nonsense.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:11:35 AM UTC+2, John Fields wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:53:16 -0700 (PDT), &quot;lang...@fonz.dk&quot;
> &lt;lang...@fonz.dk&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;On 18 Jul., 00:02, John Fields &lt;jfie...@austininstruments.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; &lt;greego...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; &gt;&quot;If you&#39;ve got a business you didn t build that.
> &gt;&gt; &gt;  Somebody else made that happen.&quot; - Obama
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; &gt;What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; ---
> &gt;&gt; I think it goes deeper than that.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; Obama is Muslim, and while Islam acknowledges &quot;People of the book&quot;
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; they&#39;re considered inferior because the Qur&#39;an is considered by
> &gt;&gt; Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
> &gt;&gt; scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; Islam&#39;s aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political
> &gt;&gt; movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought
> &gt;&gt; of the world&#39;s population to the point where resistance to the tenets
> &gt;&gt; of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.
> &gt;
> &gt;seems to be the aim of most religions, political parties on both end
> &gt;of the spectrum and a few nations ...

>
> ---
> Indeed.
>
> Was I wrong, then?
> ---
>

> &gt;&gt; ---
> &gt;&gt; Obama&#39;s part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
> &gt;&gt; use his &quot;authority&quot; to weaken us to the point where we eventually
> &gt;&gt; become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
> &gt;&gt; mercy.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;
> &gt;how is that tin foil hat working for you?
>
> ---
> That you don&#39;t see the writing on the wall isn&#39;t my fault, demeaning

> it as fantasy is yours.
>
> --

It's not so much fantasy as infantile twaddle.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:12:23 AM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:03:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

> &lt;spamtr...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;On Jul 17, 7:51 am, amdx &lt;a...@knology.net&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt;    How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; &quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> &gt;&gt; happen.&quot;
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;
> &gt;If you&#39;ve got a business you didn&#39;t, without help &quot;create this
> &gt;unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.&quot;
> &gt;We all did it, us and our forebears.
> &gt;
> &gt;&quot;There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me,
> &gt;because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -
> &gt;look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own.
> &gt;You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who
> &gt;think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot
> &gt;of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than
> &gt;everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch
> &gt;of hardworking people out there.
> &gt;
> &gt;&quot;If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.
> &gt;There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to
> &gt;create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you
> &gt;to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a
> &gt;business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The
> &gt;Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created
> &gt;the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
> &gt;Internet.&quot;
> &gt;
> &gt;http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/
>
>
> The idiot is moralizing, but he clearly doesn&#39;t understand where jobs
> and wealth come from.

You don't think that your business doesn't dependent on the community around you, who built the roads that carry stuff in and out of your business and provided the education system where you and your employees built up a lot of the skills you are now using to make money?

That would make you an idiot. Trying to persuade narcissist twits that some of their commercial success is due to the society in which they are operating, rather than entirely due to their personal genius is probably not going to work, but it does happen to be true.

> There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren&#39;t thriving. The

> counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
> to Washington DC.

The US political system passed its sell-buy date somewhere around 1900. You've be able to stagger along with an MS/DOS level operating system since then because you've got a lot of natural resources and a large internal market, but the waste and inefficiency built into your political system is getting to be an increasing problem as the rest of the world adopts better ways of managing their affairs.

<snipped irrelevant twaddle about Obama's investments>

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 17, 6:50 pm, buleg...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:51:39 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
> > How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>
> > &quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> > happen.&quot;
>

> >http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...

>
> >                      Mikek
>
> I am going to state the obvious.  It is true that successful people rely on others.   What Obama does not recognize is that successful people engage in private deals with other people to do a certain amount of work for them and , if the businessman is successful, he has a track record of making private deals (without gov't help) which are beneficial to himself and to the people he makes deals with.  It is beyond real that Obama refuses to understand the American way of private people making private deals in a free market system. The private system works because every business man has ultimate incentive to make good deals.  government deal, with taxpayer money, the incentive to make good deals is not there and that is why government ventures in business are destined to be full of waste and corruption.

Who set up the private system?

God?

Donald Trump?

If you want to see the free market system detached from the
constraints imposed by government, I have a link for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:31:08 AM UTC+2, Greegor wrote:
> Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.

Socialists long ago noticed that the free market system works very well across a lot of the economy - modern socialists exploit the engine of capitalism in those areas where it works, rather than wasting time envying anything.

> They discount any individual accomplishment
> and try to coopt it as a communal victory.

What makes you think that? They don't discount anything - they do collect more tax from those whose accomplishments have put them in a position to survive paying out about half their income in tax, and spend some of the tax so collected trying to help other people to accomplish as much.

It seems to be working rather well in Germany at the moment.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[John Larkin]

Of course we need roads and electricity and cops to start and run a
business. And educated employees. As few of them as possible, since
the government mandated overheads are so huge.

He's an idiot, as you are also, by not understand the incremental
costs and incentives that create and destroy jobs. Very few of the
parts or semiconductors or test equipment that I use are made in the
USA. I can make a lot of money assembling expensive electronics out of
absurdly cheap Chinese and Maylasian parts, but that's not creating
working-class jobs. It's not helping the Chinese slave-labor workers
all that much either.

>
>That would make you an idiot. Trying to persuade narcissist twits that some of their commercial success is due to the society in which they are operating, rather than entirely due to their personal genius is probably not going to work, but it does happen to be true.

My commercial success wouldn't have happened without me. Your
commercial success is nil, in spite of all your education and all the
elegant government infrastructure that surrounds you. There is a
difference in there somewhere; explain it.

>
>> There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren&#39;t thriving. The
>> counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
>> to Washington DC.
>
>The US political system passed its sell-buy date somewhere around 1900. You've be able to stagger along with an MS/DOS level operating system since then because you've got a lot of natural resources and a large internal market, but the waste and inefficiency built into your political system is getting to be an increasing problem as the rest of the world adopts better ways of managing their affairs.

Maybe we should look to Europe for an advanced, better managed
economic model, especially the sunny southern parts.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators

Custom timing and laser controllers

Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links

VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

[spamtrap1888]

Whoa, I didn't write that, Obama did.

Had I written that I would have said: no one would be making a dime
off the internet had the government not laid the groundwork. But the
history of the Internet is one of co-operation, of everyone doing his
share.

And the internet was commercial in the sense of being economically
useful years before browsers were created. Remember Telnet and ftp?
Did you never finger a user? Gopher (developed at UMinn) really made
the internet useful. Browsers first were an easy way to visualize
files on other people's computers.

[Bill Bowden]

On Jul 17, 4:12 pm, John Larkin <jlar...@highlandtechnology.com>
wrote:

> >http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-g...

>
> The idiot is moralizing, but he clearly doesn't understand where jobs
> and wealth come from.
>
> There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren't thriving. The
> counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
> to Washington DC.
>
> Obama himself has big-money personal investments in Apple and GE,
> major job exporters. GE pays no corporate income tax, and Obama gets
> the dividends.
>

I think Obama owns GE inside of mutual funds. Most everybody with a
401K retirement plan owns GE, since it's contained in the DOW, S&P
500, VTI, Wilshire 5000, and numerous mutual funds.

-Bill

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 17, 5:28 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>

> <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 17, 4:31 pm, Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.
> >> They discount any individual accomplishment
> >> and try to coopt it as a communal victory.
>
> >Consider then that Obama was raised by a single mother, while Romney
> >was raised by the President of the American Motors Company (including
> >Kelvinator appliances.)
>
> >Who accomplished more on his own?
>
> ...and who accomplished more by affirmative action?

Who hired Obama because he was black?

[John Larkin]

Well then, I suppose it's OK. I could own slaves, if they were in a
mutual fund.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc

www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators

Custom timing and laser controllers

Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 17, 8:48 pm, John Larkin

Are you crazy?

You have to feed slaves even when there's no work for them to do. Who
in the world wants to own slaves?

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

China Inc., according to the lefties.

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Education but as long as you ask that question, the American people.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 17, 8:28 pm, John Larkin

> >> &gt;http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-g...

>
> >> The idiot is moralizing, but he clearly doesn&#39;t understand where jobs
> >> and wealth come from.
>
> >You don't think that your business doesn't dependent on the community around you, who built the roads that carry stuff in and out of your business and provided the education system where you and your employees built up a lot of the skills you are now using to make money?
>
> Of course we need roads and electricity and cops to start and run a
> business. And educated employees. As few of them as possible, since
> the government mandated overheads are so huge.
>
> He's an idiot, as you are also, by not understand the incremental
> costs and incentives that create and destroy jobs. Very few of the
> parts or semiconductors or test equipment that I use are made in the
> USA. I can make a lot of money assembling expensive electronics out of
> absurdly cheap Chinese and Maylasian parts, but that's not creating
> working-class jobs. It's not helping the Chinese slave-labor workers
> all that much either.

Decades ago the government of Taiwan decided to invest in a
semiconductor fab. The government of Singapore decided to invest in a
semiconductor fab. The government of South Korea decided to invest in
industrial R&D to develop cheap RAM. This was a virtuous cycle as
chips and memory followed Moore's Law. Laptops are cheaper and more
powerful all the time. Only the software is bloating.

At that time, the government of the US decided to invest in cheap
corn, not semiconductors. Because the US is not socialist like Taiwan,
Singapore, and South Korea.

>
>
>
> >That would make you an idiot. Trying to persuade narcissist twits that some of their commercial success is due to the society in which they are operating, rather than entirely due to their personal genius is probably not going to work, but it does happen to be true.
>
> My commercial success wouldn't have happened without me.

This is certainly true. But would you have had the same success
anywhere else on the planet?

[miso]

I'd like to see the Sudanese cal shop. NIST traceable of course. Then
file your IP at the Sudanese patent office.

Alas, it must be because Obama is not an American. Just ask John Sununu.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:30:10 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 17, 5:46 pm, "dcas...@krl.org" <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
>> On Jul 17, 6:03 pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  > The
>>
>> > Internet didn’t get invented on its own.  Government research created
>> > the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
>> > Internet."
>>
>> Wrong.  Darpa invented the internet to increase the effectiveness of
>> researchers.
>>
>> The internet did not become commercial until browsers were created.

>Whoa, I didn't write that, Obama did.
>
>Had I written that I would have said: no one would be making a dime
>off the internet had the government not laid the groundwork. But the
>history of the Internet is one of co-operation, of everyone doing his
>share.

The government laid the groundwork, but the money didn't come until
after the government got out of the way.

>And the internet was commercial in the sense of being economically
>useful years before browsers were created. Remember Telnet and ftp?
>Did you never finger a user? Gopher (developed at UMinn) really made
>the internet useful. Browsers first were an easy way to visualize
>files on other people's computers.

Agreed. There was no clear transition between the government operated
research internet and the current commercial version. The closest
approximation was when NSFnet (National Science Foundation) network,
closed down, and was replaced by an assortment of privately funded
backbone providers. The big difference was that the private backbones
allowed and encouraged redistribution of bandwidth and content, while
this was forbidden by the contractors providing service to NSFnet.
That allowed the creation of thousands of mom and pop small ISP's that
could now sell internet access to the GUM (great unwashed masses). At
the time, NSFnet was on 56Kbits/sec DS0 lines and the internet was
almost entirely usenet and various BBS mutations. User access was by
slow dialup. While the commercialization of the internet followed
immediately there after, it would never have happened if the
government had continued NSFnet and redistribution continued to be
prohibited. Unfortunately the first real example of commercial
advertising on the internet were the green card spammers:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Card_spam>
Depending on your point of view, it's been down hill (or up hill) ever
since.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:28:48 AM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:57:08 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman

> &lt;bill....@ieee.org&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:12:23 AM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
> &gt;&gt; On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:03:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
> &gt;&gt; &amp;lt;spamtr...@gmail.com&amp;gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;On Jul 17, 7:51 am, amdx &amp;lt;a...@knology.net&amp;gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;    How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; &amp;quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; happen.&amp;quot;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt; http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;If you&amp;#39;ve got a business you didn&amp;#39;t, without help &amp;quot;create this
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.&amp;quot;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;We all did it, us and our forebears.
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;quot;There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me,
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own.
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;of hardworking people out there.
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;&amp;quot;If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;Internet.&amp;quot;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;
> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; The idiot is moralizing, but he clearly doesn&amp;#39;t understand where jobs
> &gt;&gt; and wealth come from.
> &gt;
> &gt;You don&#39;t think that your business doesn&#39;t dependent on the community around you, who built the roads that carry stuff in and out of your business and provided the education system where you and your employees built up a lot of the skills you are now using to make money?

>
> Of course we need roads and electricity and cops to start and run a
> business. And educated employees. As few of them as possible, since
> the government mandated overheads are so huge.
>

> He's an idiot, as you are also, by not understanding the incremental

> costs and incentives that create and destroy jobs.

Again, you are the idiot for believing that Obama doesn't understand that, and that you do.

> Very few of the parts or semiconductors or test equipment that I use are made > in the USA.

Which has out-sourced too many skilled and semi-skilled jobs for its own good.

> I can make a lot of money assembling expensive electronics out of

> absurdly cheap Chinese and Malaysian parts, but that's not creating

> working-class jobs. It's not helping the Chinese slave-labor workers
> all that much either.

Chinese labour isn't as cheap as it used to be, and it's rapidly getting more expensive. It's not slave labour, and it's doing better out of the situation than unemployed Americans and probably better than the American capitalists who think that they are exploiting the situation and are - in fact - impoverishing themselves by shrinking the US customer-base on which they depend. They've hollowed out the US domestic market and tax base, which is an essential component of their success.

> That would make you an idiot. Trying to persuade narcissist twits that some
> of their commercial success is due to the society in which they are
> operating, rather than entirely due to their personal genius is probably not > going to work, but it does happen to be true.
>
> My commercial success wouldn't have happened without me. Your
> commercial success is nil, in spite of all your education and all the
> elegant government infrastructure that surrounds you. There is a
> difference in there somewhere; explain it.

Easy. You got yourself into a situation where you could accumulate customers and I didn't.

Some of that was luck, some of that was personality differences.

You certainly deserve credit for finding the situation and exploiting it, but this is irrelevant to the point Obama was making, which was that you were also exploiting the infra-structure provided by the society in which you live.

> > There are millions of unemployed people who sure aren't thriving.

> > The counties that are doing best in the USA now are immediately adjacent
> > to Washington DC.
>
> The US political system passed its sell-buy date somewhere around 1900.

> You've been able to stagger along with an MS/DOS level operating system since > then because you've got a lot of natural resources and a large internal

> market, but the waste and inefficiency built into your political system is
> getting to be an increasing problem as the rest of the world adopts better
> ways of managing their affairs.
>
> Maybe we should look to Europe for an advanced, better managed
> economic model, especially the sunny southern parts.

You legalise much the same kind of tax evasion that has made Greece and Italy economic disaster areas. Spain is still recovering from the effects of Franco's right-wing economic ideas, which your politicians found remarkably congenial, so that's pretty much exactly what you have done, except that you've chosen to share the less helpful characteristics of the retarded and more poorly managed sunny southern parts of Europe.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[tm]

"Jeff Liebermann" <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:kudc08dmu9j6ojhhg...@4ax.com...

If anyone should get credit for the early Internet, it would be Hays for
their modems.

Remember ATDT ?

[tm]

"tm" <No_on...@white-house.gov> wrote in message
news:ju69a2$lq4$1...@dont-email.me...

And yes, it is Hayes. Fat fingers again.

[Chieftain of the Carpet Crawlers]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:34:42 -0400, "tm" <No_on...@white-house.gov>
wrote:

>>
>> If anyone should get credit for the early Internet, it would be Hays for
>> their modems.
>>
>> Remember ATDT ?
>And yes, it is Hayes. Fat fingers again.

Hayes, US Robotics, Motorola... there were several major modem makers
back then, and none are relevant to "getting credit for the early
Internet" whatever that is.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 4:26 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:

>
> Chinese labour isn't as cheap as it used to be, and it's rapidly getting more expensive. It's not slave labour, and it's doing better out of the situation than unemployed Americans and probably better than the American capitalists who think that they are exploiting the situation and are - in fact - impoverishing themselves by shrinking the US customer-base on which they depend. They've hollowed out the US domestic market and tax base, which is an essential component of their success.
>

> Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Trade benefits both countries. If it did not , it would not occur.
The Americans are not impoverishing themselves. They are helping the
Chinese become less impoverished.

Life is not the zero sum game you seem to think that it is.

Dan

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 4:26 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:

> You certainly deserve credit for finding the situation and exploiting it, but this is irrelevant to the point Obama was making, which was that you were also exploiting the infra-structure provided by the society in which you live.
>

> Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

But any rational person realizes that any business depends on
transactions that benefit both parties. If the transactions do not
benefit both parties, then they do not happen. Since both parties
benefit, you ought to realize that both parties are using the
infrastructure and benefiting from it. You can look at it as the
farmer that grows corn benefits from being able to ship it. Or you
can look at it as the purchaser of the corn benefits from being able
to get corn where it can be used.
It is pure crap to claim that one party benefits from the
infrastructure. It is ultimately the whole country that benefits.
The truth is that society benefits from the infrastructure and from
the business which uses it.

But of course Obama wants to claim that business is exploiting the
infrastructure.

Dan

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:58:57 AM UTC+2, k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:52:33 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

> &lt;spamtr...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;On Jul 17, 8:48 pm, John Larkin
> &gt;&lt;jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:09:54 -0700 (PDT), Bill Bowden
>
> &gt;&gt; &lt;bper...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; &gt;On Jul 17, 4:12 pm, John Larkin &lt;jlar...@highlandtechnology.com&gt;
> wrote:
> &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:03:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>
> &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;spamtrap1...@gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;On Jul 17, 7:51 am, amdx &lt;a...@knology.net&gt; wrote:

<snip>

> > Well then, I suppose it's OK. I could own slaves, if they were in a
> > mutual fund.
>
> Are you crazy?
> You have to feed slaves even when there's no work for them to do. Who
> in the world wants to own slaves?
>
> China Inc., according to the lefties.

Only in krw's lunatic world. The working class citizen's of China aren't slaves, though they are exploited by their political masters - even more enthusiastically than the US working class (when its political master's deign to find work for it, rather than shipping the work off-shore).

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[John Larkin]

Gosh, you really don't understand how buisnesses work. Which makes
sense, given your history.

>
>> That would make you an idiot. Trying to persuade narcissist twits that some
>> of their commercial success is due to the society in which they are
>> operating, rather than entirely due to their personal genius is probably not > going to work, but it does happen to be true.
>>
>> My commercial success wouldn't have happened without me. Your
>> commercial success is nil, in spite of all your education and all the
>> elegant government infrastructure that surrounds you. There is a
>> difference in there somewhere; explain it.
>
>Easy. You got yourself into a situation where you could accumulate customers and I didn't.

Obviously. Well, it took a few years. Lots of years, actually.

>
>Some of that was luck, some of that was personality differences.

Yeah, like listening to my customers and trying to help them, as
opposed to telling them how much smarter I am than they are.

>
>You certainly deserve credit for finding the situation and exploiting it, but this is irrelevant to the point Obama was making, which was that you were also exploiting the infra-structure provided by the society in which you live.

That wasn't his point. His point was that he (ie, the government)
wants more of the wealth I create. I'd create a lot more jobs, if the
tax structure weren't so peverse. He wants to make it worse.

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:52:33 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

I'd let the mutual fund do all that. Diamond mines, iPad factories,
whatever. Delegate, like Obama does.

[John Larkin]

The USA.

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx
<am...@knology.net> wrote in <8be8c$50057cdb$18d67c20$19...@KNOLOGY.NET>:

> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

>"If youï¿œve got a businessï¿œyou didnï¿œt build that. Somebody else made that
>happen."
>
>http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
>
>
> Mikek

Obanana is an idiot.
From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,
and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.
How else did business start?
Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.

I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just
one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..
Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?
Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around
their place, and then...
Obanana has it upside down.
He is trying top justify an other tax hike.
But WHY? He can print dollars for free.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 7:26 am, John Larkin

<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:15:00 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>
>
>

> <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 17, 5:28 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
> ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>
> >> <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jul 17, 4:31 pm, Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.
> >> >> They discount any individual accomplishment
> >> >> and try to coopt it as a communal victory.
>
> >> >Consider then that Obama was raised by a single mother, while Romney
> >> >was raised by the President of the American Motors Company (including
> >> >Kelvinator appliances.)
>
> >> >Who accomplished more on his own?
>
> >> ...and who accomplished more by affirmative action?
>
> >Who hired Obama because he was black?
>
> The USA.
>

Why didn't the USA hire Jesse Jackson, then? He was even blacker. A
better rhymer, more persuasive and engaging. But nope.

The USA even had the chance to hire another black Illinois senator:
the inimitable Carol Moseley-Braun. Yet they let that opportunity slip
away, as well.

Nope, affirmative action doesn't explain Obama.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 7:23 am, John Larkin

<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 01:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
>
>
>
> <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:28:48 AM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 19:57:08 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
> >> &lt;bill.slo...@ieee.org&gt; wrote:
>
> >> &gt;On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:12:23 AM UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
> >> &gt;&gt; On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:03:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

> >> &gt;&gt; &amp;gt;http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-g...

When you have more demand than you can keep up with, what do you do?
Turn down orders? Work 20 hours a day? Go through a temp agency?

IME, customer demand creates jobs. Not employers. Not the government.

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Do only the most interesting work for the most interesting customers who pay
the most?

>IME, customer demand creates jobs. Not employers. Not the government.

Nonsense. Entrepreneurs drive innovation which drives customers. How many
customers were there for PCs forty years ago?

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:20:23 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 17, 6:50 pm, buleg...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

>> On Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:51:39 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
>> > How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>>

>> > &quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
>> > happen.&quot;
>>
>> >http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
>>
>> >                      Mikek
>>
>> I am going to state the obvious.  It is true that successful people rely on others.   What Obama does not recognize is that successful people engage in private deals with other people to do a certain amount of work for them and , if the businessman is successful, he has a track record of making private deals (without gov't help) which are beneficial to himself and to the people he makes deals with.  It is beyond real that Obama refuses to understand the American way of private people making private deals in a free market system. The private system works because every business man has ultimate incentive to make good deals.  government deal, with taxpayer money, the incentive to make good deals is not there and that is why government ventures in business are destined to be full of waste and corruption.
>
>Who set up the private system?
>
>God?
>
>Donald Trump?
>
>If you want to see the free market system detached from the
>constraints imposed by government, I have a link for you:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

I think it's really easy to define who helped you start your business
and who didn't... read the IRS definition of an "employee"... people
to whom you have to give direction are generally non-contributors to
your (at least initial) success.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 10:48 am, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:


> When you have more demand than you can keep up with, what do you do?
> Turn down orders? Work 20 hours a day? Go through a temp agency?
>
> IME, customer demand creates jobs. Not employers. Not the government.

Customers do not create jobs. Only businesses that produce things
that customers want or need, get orders. The businesses generate the
demand by supplying things customers want.

Dan

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:29:18 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx

> wrote:
>
> &gt; How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
> &gt;
> &gt;&quot;If youï¿œve got a businessï¿œyou didnï¿œt build that. Somebody else made that
> &gt;happen.&quot;
> &gt;
> &gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; Mikek

>
> Obanana is an idiot.
> From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,
> and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.
> How else did business start?
> Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.
>
> I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just
> one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..

He didn't make that cave. The government did.

> Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?
> Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around
> their place, and then...
> Obanana has it upside down.
> He is trying top justify an other tax hike.

Right. The sub-text is: the rabble is entitled to loot.

Curiously, we've all got the same roads, yet not everyone
own and manages a successful company. Education is "the
answer," but a lot of our most celebrated innovators dropped
out of school. It's all so confusing.

The people who risk it all working double-time on great ideas
seem to do better than the ones who grab a paycheck and head
home. Or the ones whose EBT cards come in the mail.

Hey, if you've got a job, maybe you didn't build that.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 8:06 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

The "build it and the customers will come" theory?

Realize that 40 years ago, entrepreneurs had come up with the Altair
and the Imsai. Two guys in a garage were already building PCs named
for a fruit. One guy was peddling a TTY tape that interpreted Basic.
Not many of those innovations drove customers - at least at that time.
It took IBM to make PCs respectable. IBM's production of PCs took
them out of the hobby realm.

There are whole graveyards crammed with innovations that drove no one.
Places where Cartrivision rests next to the Elcaset. Where Digital
Audio Tape lies near AM Stereo.Then some tombstones record the
moderately successful: quadrophonic sound, laser video discs, etc.

[spamtrap1888]

What is the difference between "customer demand" and "customers want
or need for things"? None that I can see.

Or do you mean that businesses hire employees in advance of customer
demand? Those jobs don't last long if there is no customer demand.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 7:29 am, Jan Panteltje <pantel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx

> <a...@knology.net> wrote in <8be8c$50057cdb$18d67c20$19...@KNOLOGY.NET>:

>
> >   How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> >"If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> >happen."
>
> >http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...

>
> >                     Mikek
>
> Obanana is an idiot.
> From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,
> and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.
> How else did business start?
> Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.

Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in
Guyana. Otherwise you're just a bullshitter.

>
> I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just
> one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..
> Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?
> Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around
> their place, and then...
> Obanana has it upside down.
> He is trying top justify an other tax hike.
> But WHY? He can print dollars for free.

That was W.'s trick. During the W. administration, manufacturing of
formerly US-made goods was transferred to Red China. Americans still
needed those goods, and the Chinese were happy to give them to us in
exchange for freshly printed dollars. China had little use for what
could be bought with those pieces of paper, so they lent them to the
US government, which used them to finance W.'s tax cuts, along with
two wars.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

Outsource production or raise prices. Raising prices is easier.

[John Larkin]

Right. If the tax structure were different, I might be inclined to
hire more people.

Suppose business is good, and I hire 5 people for 2 years. I've
created 10 person-years of employment. I should get a thank-you letter
from Jerry Brown. Then if business slows down, and I have to lay
people off, I get hit with higher unemployment insurance rates for not
*continuing* to create jobs. So, what's the logical thing to do when
business is good? Outsource, or raise prices, but not hire.

There are so many incentives to not create working-class jobs. I can
take a hint. The big picture is that the many disincentives to hire
are increasing the wealth disparity in the USA. The Obamanomic
"solutions" will only make it worse. The recent reduction of FICA
taxes *on employees but not on employers* is a great example of this
sort of twisted economic thinking, the crazy idea that "consumer
spending drives the economy."

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:15:00 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 17, 5:28�pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

>>
>> <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jul 17, 4:31�pm, Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.
>> >> They discount any individual accomplishment
>> >> and try to coopt it as a communal victory.
>>
>> >Consider then that Obama was raised by a single mother, while Romney
>> >was raised by the President of the American Motors Company (including
>> >Kelvinator appliances.)
>>
>> >Who accomplished more on his own?
>>
>> ...and who accomplished more by affirmative action?
>
>Who hired Obama because he was black?

The gullible American public, caught up in a Hollywood-style hysteria
to elect our first Black President.

We have a Black fellow (Vernon Parker) running for Congress here (in
our new 9th District)... seems sharp and knowledgeable. I'll vote for
him, but I suspect he's going to lose simply because of the precedent
that Obama set as an "exemplary" image of a Black "professional" :-(

[Jim Yanik]

John Fields <jfi...@austininstruments.com> wrote in
news:a5jb08l41ctim43a1...@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:46:37 -0700 (PDT), Greegor
><gree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"If you've got a business you didn t build that.

>> Somebody else made that happen." - Obama
>>
>>What did you expect from a SOCIALIST?
>
> ---
> I think it goes deeper than that.
>
> Obama is Muslim, and while Islam acknowledges "People of the book"

Comrade Obama was BORN to a muslim father,it's automatic that Hussein is a
muslim,according to most muslim experts.
In Indonesia,Comrade Obama went to mosque,studied and prayed as a
muslim,was registered at two Indonesian schools as "muslim". In his own
book,Comrade claims to have CONVERTED to Christianity at the Very Racist
Rev.Wright's "church".
His publicly admitted "conversion" makes Comrade Obama an APOSTATE,and the
Koran demands that apostates be killed by one of the Faithful,yet NO Imam
has issued any fatwa calling for Comrade Obama to be killed.
Instead,muslims worldwide consider Comrade Obama to BE a muslim.
Lastly,muslims are permitted to LIE to infidels to further Islam,and
Comrade Obama is a well-known and accomplished liar.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
>
> they're considered inferior because the Qur'an is considered by
> Muslims to be the final word of God as revealed to Muhammad, earlier
> scripture having been corrupted by misinterpretation over time.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
>
> Islam's aim is - as is the aim of any perverted radical political
> movement with global yearnings - subjugation of the freedom of thought
> of the world's population to the point where resistance to the tenets
> of the movement is countermanded with deadly force.
>
> ---
> Obama's part in that scheme, as President of the US, seems to be to
> use his "authority" to weaken us to the point where we eventually
> become financially insolvent, throwing us to the wolves and asking for
> mercy.
>

"once is accidental,twice is coincidence,three times is enemy action."
Comrade Obama blocked nuclear power by closing Yucca Mountain,is going
after coal via EPA,has blocked Gulf and ANWR oil drilling,and is now going
after fracking,doing everything possible to block US oil production. He
killed the Keystone XL pipeline. Coal,oil,and nuclear is over 70% of US
energy sources.
See a pattern here? there's a concerted effort by Comrade Obama to reduce
US energy supplies,which DIRECTLY diminishes the US economy.
Then there's the LOST treaty and it's "redistribution of wealth".
It's all part of his efforts to weaken the US economically,politically,and
militarily.

a crippled US allows the muslims and communists free rein,they can act as
they wish around the world without anyone capable of or willing to oppose
them.
Comrade Hussein IS the muslim Manchurian Candidate.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> On Jul 18, 7:29 am, Jan Panteltje &lt;pantel...@yahoo.com&gt; wrote:
> &gt; On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx
> &gt; &lt;a...@knology.net&gt; wrote in &lt;8be8c$50057cdb$18d67c20$19...@KNOLOGY.NET&gt;:
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt;   How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt;&quot;If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
> &gt; &gt;happen.&quot;
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt;                     Mikek
> &gt;
> &gt; Obanana is an idiot.
> &gt; From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,
> &gt; and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.
> &gt; How else did business start?
> &gt; Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.

>
> Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in

> Guyana. Otherwise you&#39;re just a bullshitter.

Do you imagine there aren't any businesses in Guyana?
Or that their main problem is roads?

When I was in Africa, their main problem was security--people
trying to take their stuff. That was either directly, criminally,
or indirectly, criminally, by government. Obama promotes something
uncomfortably like that.

That will NEVER work, as it doesn't fix why poor people are poor,
and it scares the hell out of and chases away businesses that can.
That's the road to Guyana, not the road out.


> &gt;
> &gt; I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just
> &gt; one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..
> &gt; Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?
> &gt; Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around
> &gt; their place, and then...
> &gt; Obanana has it upside down.
> &gt; He is trying top justify an other tax hike.
> &gt; But WHY? He can print dollars for free.
>
> That was W.&#39;s trick. During the W. administration, manufacturing of

> formerly US-made goods was transferred to Red China.

As gov't makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people
get hired. When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.

It's pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
oppression.

Hey, let's raise minimum wage to 1.5x the value of what a worker
produces. That'll create jobs! (in China)

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[Jim Yanik]

Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
news:k90c08dk14n9dj9qd...@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888

><spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 17, 4:31 pm, Greegor <greego...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Socialists envy the engine of capitalism.
>>> They discount any individual accomplishment
>>> and try to coopt it as a communal victory.
>>
>>Consider then that Obama was raised by a single mother, while Romney
>>was raised by the President of the American Motors Company (including
>>Kelvinator appliances.)
>>
>>Who accomplished more on his own?
>

> You're clueless to the Mormon way of raising their children. Have
> _you_ gone on a multi-year mission for _your_ church? Mitt Romney
> did.
>
> I have many Mormon friends... though I don't hanker to their style of
> religion, they're very nice people.
>
> ...Jim Thompson

MUCH nicer than "progressives".

From a Girl Scout Leader in my neighborhood...[not MY neighborhood]


"If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn`t buy one. If a liberal
doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn`t eat meat. If a liberal
is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat
his enemy. A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still
look good.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life. If a
liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a black man or Hispanic are conservative, they see themselves as
independently successful. Their liberal counterparts see themselves as
victims in need of government protection.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his
situation. A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don't like be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church. A
liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.
(Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)

If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping
for it, or may choose a job that provides it. A liberal demands that
the rest of us pay for his.

If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and
is embarrassed. If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans
like he's in labor and then sues.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have
a good laugh. A liberal will delete it because he's 'offended'."

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in

news:kudc08dmu9j6ojhhg...@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 17 Jul 2012 20:30:10 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
><spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>On Jul 17, 5:46 pm, "dcas...@krl.org" <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
>>> On Jul 17, 6:03 pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  > The
>>>

>>> > Internet didn’t get invented on its own.  Government research created

>>> > the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the

>>> > Internet."
>>>
>>> Wrong.  Darpa invented the internet to increase the effectiveness of
>>> researchers.
>>>
>>> The internet did not become commercial until browsers were created.
>
>>Whoa, I didn't write that, Obama did.
>>
>>Had I written that I would have said: no one would be making a dime
>>off the internet had the government not laid the groundwork. But the
>>history of the Internet is one of co-operation, of everyone doing his
>>share.
>
> The government laid the groundwork, but the money didn't come until
> after the government got out of the way.

Did the government "lay the groundwork",or did the colleges,scientists,and
researchers request some sort of network to share data and communicate?

I suspect the latter.

[amdx]

Speaking of EBT, I want a bumper sticker that says;

EBT is not a way of life
Get off it!

Mikek

[Michael A. Terrell]

spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> Why didn't the USA hire Jesse Jackson, then? He was even blacker. A
> better rhymer, more persuasive and engaging. But nope.

Jackson was too busy being America's number one racist.

[Les Cargill]

dagmarg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:

<snip>

>
> As gov't makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people
> get hired. When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.
>

That wasn't true in, say 1960. I know my comment is full of deadly
levels of nostalgia, but it's offered as a compare
contrast thing. What's changed? There were more government
workers, more defense contractors, the draft was on... so it's
hard to say it was government spending as the sole problem.

best answer - financialization. 6% ROI on direct business
investment doesn't cut it any more. I note that self-storage units
run about 7-10% annual ROI, and they're still for sale, so
that's a rough estimate of the break point for ROI for a
zero-effort business.

> It's pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
> oppression.
>

No, it's more likely declining marginal value.

China is just a stop
on the way to full automation. It's like "If you let me
invest $100,000 in your company, I'll hire your kid for the summer."

Let's say that a textile worker hit saturation of marginal
value in around 1955. Then wages in textiles will be stuck at 1955
while other stuff gets more expensive.

Just a plug for Arnold Kling - he calls this "Patterns of Sustainable
Specialization and Trade".

> Hey, let's raise minimum wage to 1.5x the value of what a worker
> produces. That'll create jobs! (in China)
>

--

Les Cargill

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

A fact.

>Realize that 40 years ago, entrepreneurs had come up with the Altair
>and the Imsai. Two guys in a garage were already building PCs named
>for a fruit. One guy was peddling a TTY tape that interpreted Basic.
>Not many of those innovations drove customers - at least at that time.
>It took IBM to make PCs respectable. IBM's production of PCs took
>them out of the hobby realm.

...and they didn't come. I wonder why?

>There are whole graveyards crammed with innovations that drove no one.

Well, duh! You must be blond.

>Places where Cartrivision rests next to the Elcaset. Where Digital
>Audio Tape lies near AM Stereo.Then some tombstones record the
>moderately successful: quadrophonic sound, laser video discs, etc.

What an idiot.

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:36:28 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 18, 8:27�am, "dcas...@krl.org" <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
>> On Jul 18, 10:48�am, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > When you have more demand than you can keep up with, what do you do?
>> > Turn down orders? Work 20 hours a day? Go through a temp agency?
>>
>> > IME, customer demand creates jobs. Not employers. Not the government.
>>
>> Customers do not create jobs. �Only businesses that produce things
>> that customers want or need, get orders. �The businesses generate the
>> demand by supplying things customers want.
>>
>
>What is the difference between "customer demand" and "customers want
>or need for things"? None that I can see.

If there is no new bauble to buy there is no customer to buy it. He's already
got what was produced last year.

>Or do you mean that businesses hire employees in advance of customer
>demand? Those jobs don't last long if there is no customer demand.

Actually, yes. You've never heard of "venture capital"? I would have thought
everyone listening to the news would have. Of course businesses fail. What a
dope.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 9:50 am, amdx <a...@knology.net> wrote:

> On 7/18/2012 10:31 AM, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:29:18 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >> On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx
> >> wrote:
>
> >> &gt;   How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
> >> &gt;

> >> &gt;&quot;If youￜve got a businessￜyou didnￜt build that. Somebody else made that
> >> &gt;happen.&quot;
> >> &gt;
> >> &gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...

Damn right. Why don't those people grow their own food, the way I do?

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

They're both shakedown artists. Jackson is just a little bit more obvious.
Sharpton even more so.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 9:39 am, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:

> > On Jul 18, 7:29 am, Jan Panteltje <pantel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx

> > > <a...@knology.net> wrote in <8be8c$50057cdb$18d67c20$19...@KNOLOGY.NET>:

>
> > > >   How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> > > >"If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that

> > > >happen."
>
> > > >http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
>
> > > >                     Mikek
>
> > > Obanana is an idiot.

> > > From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,

> > > and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.

> > > How else did business start?

> > > Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.
>
> > Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in

> > Guyana. Otherwise you're just a bullshitter.

>
> Do you imagine there aren't any businesses in Guyana?
> Or that their main problem is roads?

Why are high tech businesses sited where they are, and not in
undeveloped countries like Guyana?

>
> When I was in Africa, their main problem was security--people
> trying to take their stuff. That was either directly, criminally,
> or indirectly, criminally, by government.

Yes -- our government protects your stuff. That is a highlight of our
American system of government.

> Obama promotes something
> uncomfortably like that.

Do you expect something for nothing? Do you not see the fairness of
charging people more, the more they have to protect?

> That will NEVER work, as it doesn't fix why poor people are poor,
> and it scares the hell out of and chases away businesses that can.
> That's the road to Guyana, not the road out.
>
>
>

> > > I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just

> > > one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..

> > > Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?

> > > Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around

> > > their place, and then...

> > > Obanana has it upside down.

> > > He is trying top justify an other tax hike.

> > > But WHY? He can print dollars for free.
>

> > That was W.'s trick. During the W. administration, manufacturing of

> > formerly US-made goods was transferred to Red China.
>
> As gov't makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people
> get hired.  When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.
>
> It's pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
> oppression.

Going to Red China is going AWAY from oppression? Let me refresh your
memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBnHMpHGRY

I thought I'd heard everything.

[Jim Thompson]

[snip]

What a dumb-ass statement. If you find yourself in a confiscatory
environment, you leave. I could just as easily live in Hong Kong ;-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

He's America's number two racist.

[Michael A. Terrell]

spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> Why are high tech businesses sited where they are, and not in
> undeveloped countries like Guyana?

Why aren't you living there? it sounds like a Liberal's idea of
paradise.

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:11:05 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jul 18, 9:39 am, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> > On Jul 18, 7:29 am, Jan Panteltje <pantel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > > On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Jul 2012 09:51:39 -0500) it happened amdx
>> > > <a...@knology.net> wrote in <8be8c$50057cdb$18d67c20$19...@KNOLOGY.NET>:
>>
>> > > >   How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>>
>> > > >"If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that
>> > > >happen."
>>
>> > > >http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepre...
>>
>> > > >                     Mikek
>>
>> > > Obanana is an idiot.
>> > > From my own experience when starting a business we just did it,
>> > > and if there had been NO infrastructure at all we would have found a way.
>> > > How else did business start?
>> > > Business started FIRST, and THEN there was money and reason for infrastructure.
>>
>> > Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in
>> > Guyana. Otherwise you're just a bullshitter.
>>
>> Do you imagine there aren't any businesses in Guyana?
>> Or that their main problem is roads?
>
>Why are high tech businesses sited where they are, and not in
>undeveloped countries like Guyana?

Because the business environment is better in Asia.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators

Custom laser drivers and controllers

Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links

VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:03:18 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
> dagmar wrote:
> &gt; On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> &lt;snip&gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; As gov&#39;t makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people
> &gt; get hired. When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.
> &gt;
>
> That wasn&#39;t true in, say 1960. I know my comment is full of deadly
> levels of nostalgia, but it&#39;s offered as a compare
> contrast thing. What&#39;s changed? There were more government
> workers, more defense contractors, the draft was on... so it&#39;s

> hard to say it was government spending as the sole problem.

They didn't have anything close to the federal duties, imposts, and
impositions we have today. Medicare hadn't even born then.

Here's a _tiny_ part of current gov't healthcare, the Medicare law:
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/7/XVIII/E/1395y

Obamacare is that writ large.

If you think that's better, cheaper, encourages innovation, or
is in any way a net efficiency win (i.e., brings more benefits
more affordably to more people), you're insane.

China doesn't have that.

> best answer - financialization. 6% ROI on direct business

> investment doesn&#39;t cut it any more. I note that self-storage units
> run about 7-10% annual ROI, and they&#39;re still for sale, so
> that&#39;s a rough estimate of the break point for ROI for a
> zero-effort business.
>
> &gt; It&#39;s pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
> &gt; oppression.
> &gt;
>
> No, it&#39;s more likely declining marginal value.

The higher the parasitic load, the lower the margin.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[spamtrap1888]

On Jul 18, 11:11 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:29:58 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
>
>
>

If you expect innovation alone to draw customers you'll go bankrupt.

Thus endeth the lesson.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:01:40 -0700 (PDT), dagmarg...@yahoo.com
wrote:

Who's the f-head using Outhouse Excuse or a word processor to post?

"&gt; It&#39;s" Sheeeeesh!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:43:18 -0500, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote in
>news:kudc08dmu9j6ojhhg...@4ax.com:

>> The government laid the groundwork, but the money didn't come until
>> after the government got out of the way.
>
>Did the government "lay the groundwork",or did the colleges,scientists,and
>researchers request some sort of network to share data and communicate?
>
>I suspect the latter.

The government identified the need, established the initial standards,
provided the initial funding (NSFnet, Al Gore), and was good enough to
get out of the way the appropriate time. If the government hadn't
done all these things, I'm fairly sure something similar would have
been contrived by the various research organizations and universities
that comprised the original ARPANET.

However, it would never have grown so quickly and in a standard
manner, were it not for government involvement and direction. If it
had been run by the universities, it would still be a perpetual
research project. If run by electronics manufacturers, they would
still be suing each other for patent infringement. If run by DEC or
Microsoft, it still would only be half working. If run by a
consortium, they would still be haggling over the patent pool and
debating endlessly over the location of the next meeting. The
internet is one area where government involvement worked well and was
highly beneficial. I just wish it were similar for all the other
areas of government involvement.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Bill Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:59:22 PM UTC+2, dca...@krl.org wrote:

> On Jul 18, 4:26 am, Bill Sloman &lt;bill.slo...@ieee.org&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt;

> Chinese labour isn't as cheap as it used to be, and it's rapidly getting more expensive. It's not slave labour, and it's doing better out of the situation than unemployed Americans and probably better than the American capitalists who think that they are exploiting the situation and are - in fact - impoverishing themselves by shrinking the US customer-base on which they depend. They've hollowed out the US domestic market and tax base, which is an essential component of their success.
>

> Trade benefits both countries. If it did not , it would not occur.
> The Americans are not impoverishing themselves.

Shipping large chunks of manufacturing work off-shore isn't making the country as a whole richer, though it's certainly making the people who are doing it richer, for the moment. Short-term benefits don't always correlate with long-term success.

> They are helping the Chinese become less impoverished.

Certainly true.

> Life is not the zero sum game you seem to think that it is.

What makes you think that I think that "life" is a zero sum game? Properly run mature economies expand at a couple of per cent per year. Developing economies, implementing solutions that other people have worked out, grow rather faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_%28economics%29

At present, US unemployment is sitting at 8.2%, which represents a significant under-utilisation of the resources available.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

[Gib Bogle]

On 18/07/2012 2:51 a.m., amdx wrote:
> How do all business owners feel about Obama saying,
>

> "If you�ve got a business�you didn�t build that. Somebody else made that
> happen."
>
> http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/morning-bell-obama-tells-entrepreneurs-you-didnt-build-your-business/
>
>
> Mikek

Who built the infrastructure that the business depends on? You can do it!

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Good Lord, you're an idiot.

>Thus endeth the lesson.

Since your content was zero, the wonder is why you bothered to draw a breath.
...or could.

[Michael A. Terrell]

It's the latest version of Google Groups doing it.

[Jim Thompson]

Ah, yes. Less Cargill. I blacklist all Google posters, but others
troll feed them :-(

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 11:36 am, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What is the difference between "customer demand" and "customers want
> or need for things"? None that I can see.
>

> Or do you mean that businesses hire employees in advance of customer
> demand? Those jobs don't last long if there is no customer demand.

Remember the slogan IBM used to have. THINK.

Dan

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 2:03 pm, Les Cargill <lcargil...@comcast.com> wrote:

> That wasn't true in, say 1960. I know my comment is full of deadly
> levels of nostalgia, but it's offered as a compare
> contrast thing. What's changed? There were more government
> workers, more defense contractors, the draft was on... so it's
> hard to say it was government spending as the sole problem.
>

> --
> Les Cargill

Read " the world is flat ". What changed is container ships reduced
the cost of shipping, fiber optics reduced the cost and time of
communication. the internet made looking up things easy anywhere in
the world. The personal computer eliminated the need for many white
collar jobs.

Dan

[Jamie]

what?
Inadequate But Marketable?

Jamie

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Too bad you're not even marketable, Maynard.

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 8:47 pm, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

The THINK was directed at Spamtrap.

Dan

[Jamie]

Too bad you don't know who I am, "MT"s pet. Is that
leash getting a little tight?


Jamie

[k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

I forgot to ask, how is DimBulb in bed? Is he better than your sheep?

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:17:48 PM UTC-4, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:01:40 -0700 (PDT), dagmar

> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:03:18 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
> > >> dagmar wrote:
> > >> > On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:

> > >> <snip>
> > >> >
> > >> > As gov't makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people

> > >> > get hired. When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.
> > >> >
> > >>

> > >> That wasn't true in, say 1960. I know my comment is full of deadly
> > >> levels of nostalgia, but it's offered as a compare
> > >> contrast thing. What's changed? There were more government
> > >> workers, more defense contractors, the draft was on... so it's

> > >> hard to say it was government spending as the sole problem.
> > >
> > >They didn't have anything close to the federal duties, imposts, and
> > >impositions we have today. Medicare hadn't even born then.
> > >
> > >Here's a _tiny_ part of current gov't healthcare, the Medicare law:
> > > http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/42/7/XVIII/E/1395y
> > >
> > >Obamacare is that writ large.
> > >
> > >If you think that's better, cheaper, encourages innovation, or
> > >is in any way a net efficiency win (i.e., brings more benefits
> > >more affordably to more people), you're insane.
> > >
> > >China doesn't have that.
> > >
> > >
> > >> best answer - financialization. 6% ROI on direct business

> > >> investment doesn't cut it any more. I note that self-storage units
> > >> run about 7-10% annual ROI, and they're still for sale, so
> > >> that's a rough estimate of the break point for ROI for a
> > >> zero-effort business.
> > >>
> > >> > It's pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
> > >> > oppression.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> No, it's more likely declining marginal value.

> > >
> > >The higher the parasitic load, the lower the margin.
> >
> > Who's the f-head using Outhouse Excuse or a word processor to post?
> >

> > &quot;> It's&quot;

>
>
> It's the latest version of Google Groups doing it.

Yep. It's horrible. The edit window shows the HTML tags instead of
punctuation marks. This is new--I didn't think it'd post that way.

I manually replaced the codes from the quote above, then re-pasted.

The edit window also jumps up and down--a moving target--and
the typing focus gets shifted as GG updates posts in real time.
Very annoying.

James Arthur

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:11:05 PM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> On Jul 18, 9:39 am, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:

> &gt; On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:

> &gt; &gt; Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in
> &gt; &gt; Guyana. Otherwise you&#39;re just a bullshitter.
> &gt;
> &gt; Do you imagine there aren&#39;t any businesses in Guyana?
> &gt; Or that their main problem is roads?

>
> Why are high tech businesses sited where they are, and not in
> undeveloped countries like Guyana?

The argument you're trying to make is that 5% spent for
infrastructure entitles the gov't to 60% of what you make,
mostly for redistribution.

That doesn't wash. The successful people PAID for those roads with
their taxes, for one thing. And, the government spending a little
on what it's supposed to doesn't justify the rest.

But to your question, businesses in repressive environments live
in fear, trying their best to live under the radar. Attracting
attention can be fatal. They dare not cooperate, dare not trade across
cities, etc. So, they never reach critical mass.

> &gt; When I was in Africa, their main problem was security--people
> &gt; trying to take their stuff. That was either directly, criminally,
> &gt; or indirectly, criminally, by government.

>
> Yes -- our government protects your stuff. That is a highlight of our
> American system of government.

I was highlighting the opposite--the federal gov't is the biggest
threat to property and security, to one's livelihood--they're
taking people's property, laying claim.

> &gt; Obama promotes something
> &gt; uncomfortably like that.

>
> Do you expect something for nothing? Do you not see the fairness of
> charging people more, the more they have to protect?

They're not protecting anything. Obama's not protecting anything.
He's the threat. That speech argued, essentially, his right to
confiscate. People are afraid.

> &gt; That will NEVER work, as it doesn&#39;t fix why poor people are poor,
> &gt; and it scares the hell out of and chases away businesses that can.
> &gt; That&#39;s the road to Guyana, not the road out.
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; I guess in the long ago times when they were living in caves it was just
> &gt; &gt; &gt; one person being good in making weapons, and the others would give food for good weapons..
> &gt; &gt; &gt; Grass hut banana should know that, was not his daddy herding goats?
> &gt; &gt; &gt; Then one made better paving and others would give food or other services for paving around
> &gt; &gt; &gt; their place, and then...
> &gt; &gt; &gt; Obanana has it upside down.
> &gt; &gt; &gt; He is trying top justify an other tax hike.
> &gt; &gt; &gt; But WHY? He can print dollars for free.
> &gt;
> &gt; &gt; That was W.&#39;s trick. During the W. administration, manufacturing of
> &gt; &gt; formerly US-made goods was transferred to Red China.
> &gt;
> &gt; As gov&#39;t makes it progressively more expensive to hire, fewer people
> &gt; get hired.  When it gets too burdensome to hire here, they leave.
> &gt;
> &gt; It&#39;s pretty simple, really. Outsourcing is just capital, fleeing
> &gt; oppression.

>
> Going to Red China is going AWAY from oppression? Let me refresh your
> memory:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBnHMpHGRY
>

> I thought I&#39;d heard everything.

Yet Red China has more economic freedom, as evidenced by those flocking
there, as we have less and less.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[dagmarg...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:29:24 PM UTC-4, dca...@krl.org wrote:

> On Jul 18, 2:03 pm, Les Cargill &lt;lcargil...@comcast.com&gt; wrote:
>
> > That wasn't true in, say 1960. I know my comment is full of deadly
> > levels of nostalgia, but it's offered as a compare
> > contrast thing. What's changed? There were more government
> > workers, more defense contractors, the draft was on... so it's
> > hard to say it was government spending as the sole problem.
> >
>

>

> Read "the world is flat". What changed is container ships reduced
> the cost of shipping, fiber optics reduced the cost and time of
> communication. the internet made looking up things easy anywhere in
> the world. The personal computer eliminated the need for many white
> collar jobs.
>

Good points all--society was less mobile. Also, we were at odds
with many of those nations then.

But, lowering the barrier doesn't cause an outflow unless there's
a significant incentive too; without pressure there's no flow.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[dca...@krl.org]

On Jul 18, 5:47 pm, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:


> > Life is not the zero sum game you seem to think that it is.
>
> What makes you think that I think that "life" is a zero sum game? Properly run mature economies expand at a couple of per cent per year. Developing economies, implementing solutions that other people have worked out, grow rather faster.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_%28economics%29
>
> At present, US unemployment is sitting at 8.2%, which represents a significant under-utilisation of the resources available.
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

You seem to believe that more jobs in China equals less jobs in the
U.S. If one gains the other loses. A zero sum game.

Dan

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:45:54 -0700 (PDT), dagmarg...@yahoo.com
wrote:

>On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:11:05 PM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>> On Jul 18, 9:39 am, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> &gt; On Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42:24 AM UTC-4, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
>> &gt; &gt; Put your money where your mouth is, and go open your business in
>> &gt; &gt; Guyana. Otherwise you&#39;re just a bullshitter.
>> &gt;
>> &gt; Do you imagine there aren&#39;t any businesses in Guyana?
>> &gt; Or that their main problem is roads?
>>
>> Why are high tech businesses sited where they are, and not in
>> undeveloped countries like Guyana?
>
>The argument you're trying to make is that 5% spent for
>infrastructure entitles the gov't to 60% of what you make,
>mostly for redistribution.
>
>That doesn't wash. The successful people PAID for those roads with
>their taxes, for one thing. And, the government spending a little
>on what it's supposed to doesn't justify the rest.

On my way home I drive up Dolores Street, a major historical thing.
It's a mess of cracks and potholes. The city spends over $100e6 per
year on homeless services, which seems to make just about everybody,
including the homeless, worse off.