How to spoof IMEI because AT&T forces $25 dataplan on any smartphone (even sans contract)
Dr Rig
A good friend is willing to give me as a birthday gift an unlocked
Blackberry 9800 smartphone because I like the keyboard. My 2-year non-
smartphone contract expired with AT&T long ago - so I'm only buying
cellphone (no data, no texting) service from AT&T at the moment.
However, according from my calls with AT&T Customer Service, if I plug my
AT&T SIM card into any smartphone (even if I borrow a non-AT&T unlocked
smartphone), AT&T will automatically charge me $25/month for a dataplan
(the higher of their two byte-charge dataplans, BTW).
I do NOT want a dataplan.
I just want the nice keyboard of the smartphone.
I'm not even considering buying an AT&T-subsidized smartphone so I won't
have to sign any contract whatsoever with AT&T.
Yet, AT&T says that as soon as they "recognize" the IMEI of any
smartphone, they add the data charges - automatically!
I feel that's criminal (and I guess one option is to go find another
cellular supplier) ... but my question is simply technical (not legal).
Q: How can I change the IMEI of a smartphone to spoof a non smartphone?
DevilsPGD
claimed to have wrote:
>I feel that's criminal (and I guess one option is to go find another
>cellular supplier) ... but my question is simply technical (not legal).
It would be criminal, save for the fact that you agree to this term when
you sign up.
>Q: How can I change the IMEI of a smartphone to spoof a non smartphone?
As I understand it, doing so would actually be illegal under US law. It
would almost definitely be fraudulent since as you just admitted, the
reason you want to do so is to bypass your carrier's billing policies.
I realize that's not what you want to hear, but honestly, your best bet
is to eBay the device and use the cash toward a device on a carrier with
policies to your liking (or unlock and switch, should T-Mobile's service
be sufficient for your needs)
Dr Rig
>>Q: How can I change the IMEI of a smartphone to spoof a non smartphone?
> As I understand it, doing so would actually be illegal under US law.
There is no law in the United States that says you can't change your IMEI
address any more than there is a law that says you can't change your MAC
address or your email address.
Bear in mind:
- I have no contract with AT&T for any specific cellphone
- I only pay for their voice plan (and that's all I need)
- I do not own an AT&T subsidized cell phone
- I want to use the smart cellphone for non-AT&T wifi (not 3G or 4G)
- I want to use the smart cellphone as a camera.
- I want to use the smart cellphone to play games.
- I want to use the smart cellphone to write notes.
- I want to use the smart cellphone to sync up my calendars.
- But I have no desire to use the smart cellphone on their 3G network.
I'll do my research and find out how to spoof the IMEI. If it helps, I
called AT&T who says the forced-dataplan charges are outlined here:
http://www.att.com/Smartphoneplans
And here:
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/index.jsp?
q_termsKey=wirelessCustomerAgreement&q_termsName=Wireless+Customer
+Agreement&subSection=whatAreVoiceDataPlanReq
It's interesting that California & Connecticut residents have extra
protections against unauthorized charges.
And, since AT&T defines a "smartphone" as any phone using one of six
operating systems, another legal option, reading their plan details
closely, is to change the operating system of the cellphone.
But, for the moment, the goal is to see how one could change the IMEI of
the phone to that of a phone not running one of those six operating
systems.
Roger
> Q: How can I change the IMEI of a smartphone to spoof a non smartphone?
AT&T has a patent allowing them to store a hidden program on your SIM
card that a clever computer programmer could circumvent, given a good
enough reason to protect their freedom.
The clever programmer would simply modify that stored hidden program on
your SIM card to report whatever IMEI number you want reported.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0069001.html
SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR IMEI DETECTION AND ALERTING
United States Patent Application 20090069001 (Kind Code: A1)
A system and method for detecting and storing information regarding a
mobile communications device within a mobile communications network.
Initially, a first data record is received at a subscriber/device
database comprising subscriber/device data. Next, a second data record is
received at the subscriber/device database comprising additional
subscriber/device data. A first data record of a subscriber may then be
compared to a second data record of the same subscriber, and if the first
data record is different from the second data record a service provider
may be notified.
Dr Rig
As I said, it's not illegal in the US to spoof an IMEI number!
It could be illegal to change the IMEI in parts of Europe that
participate in blacklists - but not in the USA (which doesn't employ
blacklists anyway so there would be no reason to implement such a law in
the USA).
I see from the previous poster there is a way:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20090069001.pdf
They store a program on your SIM card!
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2009/0069001.html
SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR IMEI DETECTION AND ALERTING
United States Patent Application 20090069001
A system and method for detecting and storing information regarding a
mobile communications device within a mobile communications network.
Initially, a first data record is received at a subscriber/device
database comprising subscriber/device data. Next, a second data record is
received at the subscriber/device database comprising additional
subscriber/device data. A first data record of a subscriber may then be
compared to a second data record of the same subscriber, and if the first
data record is different from the second data record a service provider
may be notified.
Inventors:
1. Cardina, Donald M. (Lawrenceville, GA, US)
2. Kefalas, Anastasios L. (Alpharetta, GA, US)
Application Number: 12/267401
Publication Date: 03/12/2009
Filing Date: 11/07/2008
Primary Class: 455/418
Other Classes: 455/558, 707/999.104, 707/999.107
International Classes: H04M3/00; G06F17/30; H04M1/00; H04W8/22;
H04W12/00; H04M3/00; G06F17/30; H04M1/00; H04W8/22; H04W12/00
Attorney, Agent or Firm:
Davis Wright Tremaine LLP/AT&T;AT&T Legal Department (Attn: Patent
Docketing, One AT&T Way, Room 2A-207, Bedminster, NJ, 07921, US)
Claims: What is claimed is:
1. A system for storing information relating to mobile communications
devices, comprising: a mobile communications network; a plurality of
communications devices communicable with the mobile communications
network; a database for storing subscriber/device data, wherein the
subscriber/device data comprises subscriber identity data along with
device identity data regarding the device in use by the subscriber; and a
first programmed routine operable within the mobile communications
network for updating the subscriber/device data within the database after
initial storage thereof.
2. The system of claim 1, further comprising a second programmed routine
operable within the mobile communications network for notifying one or
more entities or applications of a subscriber/device data change.
3. The system of claim 1, wherein the subscriber identity data comprises
subscriber information received from a SIM card and the device identity
data comprises an IMEI number.
4. The system of claim 3, further comprising an application resident on
the SIM card for collecting and sending the subscriber/device data to the
database.
5. They system of claim 4, wherein the application transmits the
subscriber/device data via at least one of an SMS, an MMS, an e-mail, and
a USSD message.
6. The system of claim 1, further comprising a list to which subscriber/
device data may be compared to determine if a listed device is in use by
a subscriber.
7. The system of claim 6, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that is being used improperly.
8. The method of claim 6, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that has been reported lost or stolen.
9. The method of claim 6, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that has been improperly switched from pre-paid to post-paid service.
10. A method for detecting and storing information regarding a mobile
communications device within a mobile communications network, comprising:
receiving at a subscriber/device database a first data record comprising
subscriber/device data relating to a particular subscriber; receiving at
the subscriber/device database a second data record comprising subscriber/
device data relating to the particular subscriber; comparing the first
data record to the second data record; and notifying a service provider
if the first data record is different from the second data record,
wherein the subscriber/device data comprises subscriber identity data
along with device identity data regarding the mobile device in use by the
subscriber.
11. The method of claim 10, wherein the subscriber identity data
comprises subscriber information received from a SIM card and the device
identity data comprises an IMEI number.
12. The method of claim 10, further comprising comparing device identity
data from the second record to a list of listed devices.
13. The method of claim 12, further comprising notifying the service
provider that a listed device is in use.
14. The method of claim 13, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that has been reported lost or stolen.
15. The system of claim 13, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that is being used improperly.
16. The method of claim 13, wherein the listed device comprises a device
that has been improperly switched from pre-paid to post-paid service.
17. The method of claim 10, wherein the subscriber/device data is
collected and sent to the database by an application resident on the SIM
card.
18. The method of claim 17, wherein the subscriber device/data is
collected each time the mobile device powers up.
19. The method of claim 17, wherein the subscriber/device data is
collected and sent each time the mobile device is connected to the mobile
communications network.
20. The method of claim 10, wherein the subscriber/device data is sent to
the database in response to monitoring of the network by at least one of
A-bis, MSC, HLR, VLR, and STP monitoring.
Description:
This application claims the benefit of U.S. Provisional application Ser.
No. ______, entitled “IMEI Detection and Alerting System”, filed Jul. 7,
2004, which is herein incorporated by reference in its entirety.
BACKGROUND
1. Field of the Invention
The present invention relates generally to collection, storage, and use
of data transmitted from mobile telecommunications devices. More
particularly, the present invention relates to collection and mining of
data related to device identity data, the Internal Mobile station
Equipment Identity (IMEI), and of subscriber identity data related to the
Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) of mobile telecommunications devices.
2. Background of the Invention
It is common practice in the telecommunications industry for a service
provider (SP) to record information regarding a mobile communication
device at the time of activation of service. For example, each
communications device's IMEI contains information regarding that device
that tells the SP what type of device is being used, which in turn lets
the SP know what functionality is available on that particular device.
With GSM, PCS, and other such phone systems, the device has a removable
SIM card that contains, among other things, information related to the
user and that allows the device to function with the particular SP's
network. Each time a user connects to a network, the information on the
SIM card is transmitted and permits the user to utilize the services of
the network. Most SPs, however, only know the relationship between the
SIM card and the IMEI at the time of activation or possibly at any other
time when a subscriber happens to bring the device in, for example, to be
serviced.
Because the user's account information necessary to connect to a network
is contained wholly within the user's SIM card, a user may transfer the
SIM card from one device to another without the SP ever learning of the
switch. While this functionality allows freedom for users to change
devices without need for involving technicians or service representatives
of the SP, it also presents problems for both users and SPs.
Additionally, prior art mobile communications systems for time division
multiple access (TDMA) subscribers did not encounter such problems
because the mobile identification number (MIN)/electronic serial number
(ESN) combination for the subscriber must be in the home location
register (HLR) in order for the handset to be used. Subscribers would be
unable to make changes to their equipment without involving the service
provider.
As mentioned above, the IMEI information allows the SP to know what
functionality the particular device supports. If a user has switched
devices unbeknownst to the SP, however, the user or the SP or both may
encounter problems related to interaction between the service and the new
device. In addition, when a user makes a service call, if the SP service
representative believes that the user has a device different from the
device actually in use, then the user may not receive optimal service
during the service call.
There are also security issues that may result from SIM card portability.
Because the SIM card is essentially the “brains” of a mobile device, a
stolen or lost phone may be used by anyone with an active SIM card by
simply replacing the SIM card into the stolen or lost phone. Because the
SP often does not check IMEI versus SIM information, a thief or person
who finds a lost phone can use that phone with impunity.
BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
It would be desirable to collect information from mobile
telecommunications devices to track SIM data in conjunction with IMEI
data to allow SPs to track a user's device in real-time or near real-time
so that the SP is aware of the device being used by a subscriber with
better accuracy than is currently provided. This information can be used
to enhance service to subscribers in many ways. For example, by matching
SIM data with IMEI data, an SP may determine that a device that has been
reported lost or stolen is being used and may track and possibly locate
the missing device or merely disable service to any user attempting to
use that particular device.
In another example, by knowing what functionality is available to a
particular user, the SP may tailor what services are offered to that
particular subscriber so as to maximize its marketing efforts. Similarly,
when one user is attempting to utilize enhanced features with another
user, knowledge of both users' device information will better allow the
SP to inform each party of the other user's capabilities. Such user to
user features are described in more depth in U.S. application Ser. No.
______, entitled “System and Method for Providing Mobile Device
Capability to a Wireless Network Subscriber” by Emily Soelberg, filed
Aug. 2, 2004. In this manner, for example, a first user would know before
attempting to send, for example, a video message, that the intended
target user does not have such capability to receive a video message.
These and other benefits will be described in more detail in the detailed
description below.
According to a first exemplary embodiment, a method for detecting and
storing information regarding a mobile communications device within a
mobile communications network is disclosed. Initially, a first data
record is received at a subscriber/device database comprising subscriber/
device data. Next, a second data record is received at the subscriber/
device database comprising additional subscriber/device data. A first
data record of a subscriber may then be compared to a second data record
of the same subscriber, and if the first data record is different from
the second data record a service provider may be notified.
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS
FIG. 1 is an exemplary system for storing subscriber/device data within a
mobile communications network to a database; and
FIG. 2 is a flow chart showing an exemplary method for receiving and
handling subscriber/device data in accordance with the present invention.
DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION
Before one or more embodiments of the invention are described in detail,
one skilled in the art will appreciate that the invention is not limited
in its application to the details of construction, the arrangements of
components, and the arrangement of steps set forth in the following
detailed description or illustrated in the drawings. The invention is
capable of other embodiments and of being practiced or being carried out
in various ways. Also, it is to be understood that the phraseology and
terminology used herein is for the purpose of description and should not
be regarded as limiting.
FIG. 1 depicts a system 100 for enabling storage of IMEI information
transmitted or otherwise received within a cellular network 102 for
storage in an IMEI database 104 . The IMEI information is linked to and
may be received from a mobile station (MS) 106 or it may be input
directly by a service provider. When MS 106 registers with network 102 ,
system 100 can collect mobile station information including the IMEI,
which is a feature common to all GSM mobile stations currently in use.
For example, mobile switching center (MSC) 108 may request an IMEI from
MS 106 , or the IMEI may be automatically forwarded from MS 106 during a
registration process, and temporarily stored in VLR/HLR 110 . Either an
HLR (Home Location Register) or a VLR (Visitors' Location Register) would
be capable of capturing the above described information. Generally, a VLR
is a local database maintained by the cellular provider in whose
territory a subscriber is roaming. The cellular provider providing the
roaming service queries the HLR of the subscriber and then maintains that
information in its VLR at least for the duration that the subscriber is
roaming in the visiting service area.
As is known to those skilled in the art, each IMEI is a unique 15 digit
number assigned to an individual MS that can be used to determine
information associated with the MS, including the manufacturer and MS
model type. The IMEI received by network 102 is preferably stored in IMEI
database 104 . Preferably, IMEI database 104 contains IMEI information
associated with mobile stations of subscribers to network 102 . For
example, MSC 108 can forward to IMEI database 104 information such as an
IMEI number of MS 106 after it is requested by network 102 and initially
stored in VLR/HLR 110 .
Preferably, IMEI database 104 also contains hardware information
concerning commonly used mobile station models. Such information may
include an MS model, mail capability, and enhanced features associated
with each of a plurality of MS models, among other information. This
information may be periodically collected by system 100 and entered into
IMEI database 104 . Alternatively, this information may be located in a
separate hardware database (not shown). Referring again to FIG. 1, by
requesting the IMEI number of registering mobile station 106 , system 100
can create a contact mobile station table that lists IMEI number, MS 106
phone number or other information that may be contained on the SIM card
of MS 106 , and MS 106 hardware model. Additionally, using the IMEI
number, system 100 may determine the functional capabilities of MS 106 by
referring to its internal table of hardware/functional specifications for
each of the various types of known mobile communication devices.
The IMEI information stored in IMEI database 104 , also preferably
includes, as mentioned above, information related to the user of MS 106
via the SIM card in the phone. In this manner the information in IMEI
database 104 allows a service provider to know at any given time what
kind of communication device a particular user is currently using. Such
information may allow the service provider to tailor its service to that
customer in a manner most efficient and effective to both the service
provider and the mobile subscriber.
FIG. 2 depicts an exemplary process 200 for initially recording an IMEI/
SIM data pair and for updating the IMEI/SIM record as that information
changes. Initially, at step 202 , the IMEI/SIM data is entered into IMEI
database 104 when the mobile station is registered on the network 102 for
the first time. This information may be input directly into the database
by a customer service representative, or it may be possible that
information is transmitted to the database directly from the mobile
station itself. Next, at step 204 , the IMEI/SIM data is again received
at IMEI database 104 .
System 100 then, at step 206 , checks the most recent IMEI/SIM data
versus the data currently stored in IMEI database 104 . At step 208 ,
system 100 checks to see if the data is the same as what was previously
contained in IMEI database 104 . If the IMEI/SIM data is the same as what
is already contained in IMEI database 104 , the new record may simply be
discarded at step 210 . If, however, IMEI/SIM information is found to be
different from that contained in IMEI database 104 , then system 100 may
update IMEI database 104 with the latest IMEI/SIM data at step 212 .
Although process 200 is depicted as discarding data that does not reflect
a change in the IMEI/SIM data, it may also be desirable to store all
instances of IMEI/SIM data transmission to maintain a full historical
view of activity by the users.
Finally, upon detection of a change, system 100 may then notify the
service provider (or any other application or entity that could utilize
such information) that the mobile subscriber is using a new mobile
station at step 214 , and thus allow the service provider or other entity/
application to act accordingly, such as by configuring the new mobile
station to support its new features.
One purpose of IMEI collection and alerting is to provide notification to
different applications connected to the IMEI database server that a
subscriber has changed its SIM card from one MS to another. There are
several different methods of detecting the IMEI change. Three of these
exemplary methods are Call Detail Record (CDR) collection, SIM card
applications, and enhanced switch features and A-bis links monitoring.
Each of these may have advantages over the other that may be relative to
the applications connecting to the IMEI server.
Within a CDR for voice and data calls is often contained IMEI, MSISDN,
IMSI, and other non-pertinent information for IMEI collection. System 100
can read the collected CDRs and may store the IMEI or IMEI/SIM
combination to the database. Alternatively, the combination may be
compared to the existing information in the database to see if an update
is necessary in the manner described in relation to FIG. 2.
Another exemplary method involves monitoring and enhanced switch methods.
In this example, IMEI data is monitored using one of numerous monitoring
capabilities of the network, such as, for example, using A-bis, MSC, HLR,
VLR and signal transfer point (STP) to monitor IMEI data that is
transmitted from the MS.
A third exemplary method for updating the IMEI database is to place an
application on the SIM card itself. This resident application can read
the IMEI each time the phone powers up, for example, or based on any
other criteria programmed into the application. The SIM application may
be programmed so that if the IMEI/SIM information is the same as the
previous check by the SIM application, then nothing happens. If, however,
the SIM application determines that a change has occurred in the IMEI/SIM
information, it could then transmit such information to the IMEI
database, at which time the database can be checked versus its latest
IMEI/SIM information and, if necessary, alert whatever applications
should be alerted of the change.
Alternatively, a fourth exemplary method for updating the IMEI database
may be provided by the VLR/HLR 110 . In particular, the VLR/HLR 110 may
inform the IMEI database of all changes to the IMEI/SIM database
information that it has captured, and/or was aware of, as a result of
various normal operating events that occur in the network, such as in the
situation where a mobile station periodically registers with the network
and its IMEI/SIM is automatically registered with the VLR/HLR 110 , or
the like.
It should be noted that while it may be desirable to capture all
instances of changes to the IMEI/SIM database information, it may also be
desirable to implement a function that only creates an alert regarding a
change if the system recognizes that the IMEI/SIM information has changed
for a significant duration. For example, it is possible that a first user
may encounter a second user who has a device that the first user wishes
to try out. In this scenario, the first user may temporarily swap his/her
SIM card into the second user's device for only a short period of time
long enough to enable the first user to assess the second user's device.
It may not be desirable in such a situation for the system to alert that
this short duration SIM swap has occurred. Accordingly, the system may
only acknowledge the SIM swap if the SIM card remains in the new device
for an extended period of time. Additionally if the system receives a
series of IMEI/SIM data records over a short period of time where a
single record reflecting a SIM swap occurs between two records reflecting
that the user's SIM card is in the user's original device, the system may
recognize this as the above-described type of temporary SIM swap and
effectively ignore the short-duration SIM discrepancy.
As with the method described in FIG. 2, it may also be desirable to
transmit all data collected by the SIM application so as to provide a
more robust history related to the IMEI/SIM information in the IMEI
database. The form of update related to the SIM application could take
the form of, for example, a short message service (SMS) message
containing the updated IMEI/SIM information. The update may also be an e-
mail, unstructured supplementary services data (USSD) message, Univeral
Mobile Telecommunications System (UMTS), or any other suitable manner of
transmitting the IMEI/SIM information from the MS to the IMEI database.
Each of the above-described monitoring/data collection methods is
intended as exemplary only and one of skill in the art will comprehend
that other data collection methods may be applicable for collecting IMEI/
SIM data and transferring it to the IMEI database.
As mentioned above, by implementing these or other methods of updating
the IMEI database, downstream and external applications, for example,
would be able to receive information (from historical to near-real-time,
depending on the need of the particular applications) about devices used
by the customer. This information can be used to control and track
numerous parameters that may aid in improving the customer experience,
controlling services received by the customer, and gaining insight into
customer behavior.
The IMEI database can hold this information and allow it to be accessed
in a manner appropriate to the application-individual queries for a real-
time content application, bulk database replication for a query-intensive
application with less sensitivity to timeliness, and large-scale queries
for datamining and historical research needs.
Many benefits may be achieved through better knowledge of the customers'
mobile devices in use. It should be noted that the database would be
intended merely as a repository for information regarding a user and the
device currently in use. It is possible, however, that the database could
actively transmit information regarding IMEI/SIM changes, if so desired
The various applications that could benefit from that information would
be responsible for querying and/or receiving the information from the
IMEI
database in a manner that is meaningful to that particular application.
In a first example of the type of use for the information contained in
the IMEI database it may be desirable to track user behavior versus
particular mobile devices to check, for example, whether users of certain
devices tend to use their mobile communications device in a manner that
generates more revenue for the service provider than users of other
devices. Such knowledge can allow service providers, content providers,
and hardware providers, among others, to optimize user experience across
all handsets and to allow for maximization of revenue and profits. Such
user/device behavior could be tracked, for example, by using the database
in a historical mode. Information regarding calls (including timestamps)
may then be cross-referenced with billing data to determine any type of
usage activity or behavior. The findings from such analysis may then be
extrapolated or otherwise analyzed to reach actionable conclusions
regarding customer behavior viz-a-viz the particular mobile
communications device.
Additionally, a user from a legacy GSM market may be using a device that
does not allow an optimal user experience. It may be valuable to identify
such subscribers on a closer to real-time basis to inform the subscriber
of the benefit(s) of switching to an updated handset. Similarly, the
system could be developed to notify a customer who is using a device that
does not support his/her choice of features or products. Such
notification could be done by SMS, MMS, e-mail or any number of a ways of
notification. The IMEI database could be used in this instance as an
adjunct to the roaming systems, to identify devices that are suspect
regarding roaming services. Customers who are roaming inappropriately can
be notified through an SMS or other notification when they return to
their home area to switch devices and, for example, improve their service
or lower their costs.
In another example, a service provider could offer to national retailers
the ability to control shrinkage by using the IMEI database to provide
whitelist/blacklist capabilities, for example, for “phone in a box”
services. In this instance, when devices are sold to the national
retailer, they may be inserted into the IMEI database with a “not sold”
status. Upon the device being sold, the IMEI database record may be
converted to a “sold” status, which then allows the device to be
activated by the customer. The IMEI database can feed a point of sale
activation (POSA) system with the devices in use in the network and feed
other aspects of the network with devices that should not be allowed to
access the network.
Similar to the above, devices may be blacklisted entirely if they are
reported lost or stolen. If a user loses his/her device or has it stolen,
he/she may report this to the service provider. Whereas previously anyone
who came into possession of such a lost or stolen phone could simply
insert a valid SIM card and use the phone with impunity, the IMEI
database would allow service providers to learn of such illegal use and
terminate service to a user whose SIM card has been inserted into a
blacklisted phone.
In yet another example, the IMEI/SIM data may be provided to a customer
care representative to enhance service to the customer. IMEI information
may be retrieved from the IMEI database based on the most recent
transmission, or it may be possible for the customer care representative
to initiate a transfer of IMEI information to the database while in
communication with the customer to receive the most updated information
regarding that user's communications device. In this manner, the customer
care representative will have access to the details regarding the
customer's device and can provide the highest level of service without
need for asking the user questions regarding the type of device in use.
Another use for the IMEI database information is to aid in prevention of
sideways movement of devices from pre-paid to post-paid. Often times,
mobile communications devices and accessories are packaged together and
sold specifically for use as pre-paid devices. Because the airtime usage
rates for pre-paid versus post-paid are often higher, service providers
offer these specially packaged phones at discounts. Also, in order to
promote the selling of pre-paid devices, retailers are often provided a
commission for selling such packages. If a phone is originally sold as a
pre-paid phone, it may be so designated within the IMEI database. If at
some point a user who is signed up for a post-paid plan inserts his/her
SIM card into the pre-paid phone, the phone could be blacklisted if it is
appropriate to do so, or at the very least, the commission that was to be
or has already been paid to the retailer could be revoked or denied.
In another example, the IMEI database could be used to determine if
certain types of communications should be sent from one device to
another. For example, one user may have MMS messaging capability while
another user does not. The network, before attempting to transmit the
MMS,
or other such enhanced communication, may query the database to see if
the target user has the ability to accept the MMS message. If not, the
initiating user may be informed that the MMS message cannot be sent
rather than sending the MMS message anyway (and tying up the network with
unnecessary processing) and never making the sender aware that the MMS
message could not be received. As mentioned above, this and other
functionality associated with the IMEI database described herein are
disclosed in more detail in the aforementioned U.S. application Ser. No.
______, entitled “System and Method for Providing Mobile Device
Capability to a Wireless Network Subscriber” by Emily Soelberg, filed
Aug. 2, 2004.
Other than receiving such notifications from the network, it would be
desirable for use and maintenance of the IMEI database to be essentially
transparent to the customer. Such verification and database updating and
querying would preferably not create any noticeable change in service
speed or appearance to the user.
The foregoing disclosure of the preferred embodiments of the present
invention has been presented for purposes of illustration and
description. It is not intended to be exhaustive or to limit the
invention to the precise forms disclosed. Many variations and
modifications of the embodiments described herein will be apparent to one
of ordinary skill in the art in light of the above disclosure. The scope
of the invention is to be defined only by the claims appended hereto, and
by their equivalents.
Further, in describing representative embodiments of the present
invention, the specification may have presented the method and/or process
of the present invention as a particular sequence of steps. However, to
the extent that the method or process does not rely on the particular
order of steps set forth herein, the method or process should not be
limited to the particular sequence of steps described. As one of ordinary
skill in the art would appreciate, other sequences of steps may be
possible. Therefore, the particular order of the steps set forth in the
specification should not be construed as limitations on the claims. In
addition, the claims directed to the method and/or process of the present
invention should not be limited to the performance of their steps in the
order written, and one skilled in the art can readily appreciate that the
sequences may be varied and still remain within the spirit and scope of
the present invention.
Harold Lathom
> AT&T has a patent allowing them to store a hidden program on your SIM
> card that a clever computer programmer could circumvent, given a good
> enough reason to protect their freedom.
iDemocracy and ZiPhone will legally change your IMEI to anything you like
if you use the cell phone in the united states.
mpm
You may be able to get this answered over at www.wirelessadvisors.com
There are some very knowledgeable folks over there, many of whom
moonlight as cell phone geeks.
Good luck.
mpm
How does a patent like this survive a USPTO 103 objection on the
grounds of obviousness?
This "patent" must surely be unenforceable?
What part of this patent was not already in the public domain when it
was filed?
Martin Brown
It relies on the patent office not knowing where to look for the prior
art and being clueless about software. They will grant US corporates
patents on anything provided the company pays up the money to USPTO.
Contesting it would be a waste of time and money so it stays.
Xerox even has a patent on the mathematical identity X + (-X) = 0 as
applied to the 8x8 DCT in JPEG decoding. The patent office failed to
look at the radio astronomy literature for prior art before granting it.
And in most jurisdictions patents are not permitted on mathematical
identities - particularly not on ones taught at junior high school.
>
> What part of this patent was not already in the public domain when it
> was filed?
Absolutely nothing.
Regards,
Martin Brown
hamilton
> You may be able to get this answered over at www.wirelessadvisors.com
This link says there is nothing there, are you sure of this spelling ??
hamilton
starshine
> iDemocracy and ZiPhone will legally change your IMEI to
Both iDemocracy & ZiPhone seem to only work on the iPhone.
What's the equivalent freeware to change the IMEI on a Blackberry?
starshine
>> What part of this patent was not already in the public domain when it
>> was filed?
>
> Absolutely nothing.
AT&T cell phone users should complain to the FCC about AT&T's practices
of adding unwanted data plan charges simply for the phone chosen by the
user!
https://esupport.fcc.gov/sform2000/new_complaints.action?request_locale=en
za kAT
> You may be able to get this answered over at www.wirelessadvisors.com
> There are some very knowledgeable folks over there, many of whom
> moonlight as cell phone geeks.
> Good luck.
Thanks, link's dead asscreme.
--
za...@pooh.the.cat - Sergeant Tech-Com, DN38416.
Assigned to protect you. You've been targeted for denigration!
mi...@sushi.com
I recall this was already solved in the crackberry forums. Just search
there. To be clear, not IMEI spoofing, but rather how to surf the web
without a data plan. It uses your voice minutes. This will NOT get
you on the blackberry internet network, so I suspect you will have to
surf in a dumb mode (like an iphone) rather than use the column mode
of a blackberry. The column mode requires the RIM server to format the
data for your phone. However, what I would suggest is to load the
Opera mini browser. The Opera server can format the pages for the
blackberry. If you don't format the pages, then you are stuck doing
apple crap, that is zoom and pan, except you don't have a touch screen
to make pan and zoom suck less.
Clearly BBM won't work. Your mail will be as secure as an Android or
Iphone (that is, not secure at all). I really don't see utility to
having a blackberry without the RIM server, but your mileage may vary.
mpm
mpm
You are so pleasant.
It is a joy to interact with you online.
mpm
Damn it. Why doesn't this work?
http://www.wirelessadvisor.com/
Sjouke Burry
Todd Allcock
An end run around the policy might be to use an unlocked smartphone from
a different carrier. My Vodafone UK Sony smartphone would be "invisible"
to AT&T- it's a model they never sold, and IIRC, AT&T's smartphone
database is a list of IMEI numbers of AT&T-branded smartphones only.
DevilsPGD
<elecc...@AnoOspamL.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>An end run around the policy might be to use an unlocked smartphone from
>a different carrier. My Vodafone UK Sony smartphone would be "invisible"
>to AT&T- it's a model they never sold, and IIRC, AT&T's smartphone
>database is a list of IMEI numbers of AT&T-branded smartphones only.
This might be true today, but I wouldn't put it past AT&T to buy lists
of IMEIs in order to tack on charges later.
Jim Thompson
What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
News
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:01:07 +0100, Sjouke Burry
> <burrynu...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:
>
>> mpm wrote:
>>> On Jan 11, 11:40 pm, mpm<mpmill...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 11, 10:27 am, hamilton<hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/11/2011 5:43 AM, mpm wrote:
>>>>>> You may be able to get this answered over atwww.wirelessadvisors.com
>>>>> This link says there is nothing there, are you sure of this spelling ??
>>>>> hamilton
>>>> Oops - my bad.
>>>> It's not plural.
>>>>
>>>> Trywww.wirelessadvisor.com
>>>
>>> Damn it. Why doesn't this work?
>>> http://www.wirelessadvisor.com/
>>>
>> It does.
>
> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
It's shiny and it's from AAPL. That's enough for most fanbois.
Michael A. Terrell
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:01:07 +0100, Sjouke Burry
> <burrynu...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:
>
> >mpm wrote:
> >> On Jan 11, 11:40 pm, mpm <mpmill...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> On Jan 11, 10:27 am, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 1/11/2011 5:43 AM, mpm wrote:
> >>>>> You may be able to get this answered over atwww.wirelessadvisors.com
> >>>> This link says there is nothing there, are you sure of this spelling ??
> >>>> hamilton
> >>> Oops - my bad.
> >>> It's not plural.
> >>>
> >>> Trywww.wirelessadvisor.com
> >>
> >> Damn it. Why doesn't this work?
> >> http://www.wirelessadvisor.com/
> >>
> >It does.
>
> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
Nothing, unless you're a leftist weenie. :)
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Jim Thompson
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:01:07 +0100, Sjouke Burry
>> <burrynu...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:
>>
>> >mpm wrote:
>> >> On Jan 11, 11:40 pm, mpm <mpmill...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>> On Jan 11, 10:27 am, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 1/11/2011 5:43 AM, mpm wrote:
>> >>>>> You may be able to get this answered over atwww.wirelessadvisors.com
>> >>>> This link says there is nothing there, are you sure of this spelling ??
>> >>>> hamilton
>> >>> Oops - my bad.
>> >>> It's not plural.
>> >>>
>> >>> Trywww.wirelessadvisor.com
>> >>
>> >> Damn it. Why doesn't this work?
>> >> http://www.wirelessadvisor.com/
>> >>
>> >It does.
>>
>> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
>
>
> Nothing, unless you're a leftist weenie. :)
I have an old LG VX9800, opens up to a big QWERTY keyboard.
Stuns clients who've never seen something you can actually type on :-)
Big screen, etc.
Only draw-back... it has a camera, so I have to surrender it at secure
locations :-(
Michael A. Terrell
Then you need something like the 'Jitterbug' phones made for seniors
that don't have a camera?.
Jim Thompson
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
I like the big keyboard for E-mail and texting.
Dr Rig
> it's a model they never sold, and IIRC, AT&T's
> smartphone database is a list of IMEI numbers of AT&T-branded
> smartphones only.
I guess that might work (but of course, I'd have to buy the phone first
or borrow one for a few days).
The AT&T policy says any phone with one of 6 operating systems is
considered a smart phone. They don't say anything about them having to
have sold it before.
The operating systems are:
1. Symbiont
2. Palm
3. Windows Mobile
4. Blackberry
5. Apple
6. Android
Does your Vodafone run one of those operating systems?
Dr Rig
> I recall this was already solved in the crackberry forums. Just search
> there. To be clear, not IMEI spoofing, but rather how to surf the web
> without a data plan.
I will need to look up "crackberry" but I should reiterate I don't want
to surf the web.
I just want the keyboard, the camera, the notes, the player, etc., that
the Blackberry has but I do not want to connect to the Internet by the
phone (I do want to connect to the Internet via the wireless).
I'm still digging for an IMEI spoofing application for the Blackberry.
Michael A. Terrell
Then remove the camera board. :)
Dr Rig
> Damn it. Why doesn't this work?
> http://www.wirelessadvisor.com/
That URL didn't work before, but now it does. :)
From that URL, for my zip code, I can get a wireless phone plan from:
1. AT&T (GSM)
2. Verizon (CDMA)
3. T-Mobile (GSM)
4. Nextel (IDEN) / Sprint (CDMA)
AT&T is GSM which I want. However, AT&T charges for data plans on all
smartphones, even those not bought from AT&T (which makes me livid).
Also, AT&T seems to charge 10% California sales tax on the full-resale-
value of all phones when they subsidize them so even a "free" phone costs
about $50 in California.
Verizon is CDMA, so they are out of the question.
T-Mobile is GSM, which I want. T-Mobile does NOT seem to charge for a
dataplan if you don't get the phone subsidized by them (yippee!). In
addition, T-Mobile doesn't charge $50 sales tax on a "free" phone like
AT&T does (so they must "structure" the sale differently from a legal
standpoint).
Nextel / Sprint seem to have similar plans but they're not GSM so they're
out of the question.
If my summary is correct, it looks like I have two options given my
Blackberry 9800 GSM smartphone.
I. Remain on the AT&T voice-only network and figure out how to spoof the
IMEI of the smart phone to look like a dumb phone.
II. Switch to the T-Mobile voice-only network and plug in my own smart
phone which won't then require a data plan because it's not subsidized by
T-Mobile.
Todd Allcock
It runs Windows Mobile, but I use it on T-Mobile rather than AT&T.
My suggestion certainly runs afoul of AT&T's policy. I was really
discussing what you can get away with, rather than what they allow. This
worked last time I looked into it, but you might check Howardforums.com
and verify it with current subscribers.
T-Mobile still allows users to select no data plan as an option for most
smartphones (Android phones are an exception- they get a forced data plan)
IF you acquire the phone without a subsidy. Another alternative is to
use prepaid resellers, like Airvoicewireless.com, who offer plans without
data.
Todd Allcock
LOL! Anything's possible. However, it'd be far easier to mimic T-Mo's
recent policy- make the (more expensive) smartphone data plans the
"default" data plans, and use IMEI lookup to verify the device is a
carrier-branded dumbphone to qualify for lower rates. This way, all non-
branded phones are simply presumed to be smart.
I've escaped that T-Mo policy (so far) due to my grandfathered plan which
is device agnostic, but current plans need a T-Mo-issued dumbphone to get
dumbphone rates.
Dr Rig
> current plans need a T-Mo-issued dumbphone to get dumbphone rates.
Interesting!
I called T-Mobile before I saw this and they said I could hook up my own
GSM smartphone onto voice-only service without having to have a data plan
as long as T-Mobile didn't subsidize the smartphone.
Are you saying that if I got a T-Mobile-subsidized smartphone, and then
got their data plan, but if I then dropped their data plan, that I could
not subsequently hook up my own non-Tmobile unlocked gsm smartphone
without having to add the dataplan back?
I'm confused (I guess I should ask this of T-mobile) but can you clarify
your experience with their policy?
Dr Rig
> T-Mobile still allows users to select no data plan as an option for most
I had called T-Mobile at 800-866-2453 earlier today.
They mentioned nothing about the Android exception; but when I told them
about AT&T's policy (of forcing dataplans on any smartphone even if the
customer supplied their own smartphone), T-Mobile said they had nothing
of the sort.
T-Mobile even said you could cancel the data plan even on subsidized
phones (which I found suspicious as I wouldn't have expected that).
So, I will call them again to verify:
1. If I supply my own smartphone, must I have a dataplan
and
2. If I get a subsidized smartphone, when can I legally cancel the
dataplan
Joel Koltner
message news:f4jri69ras46vaipa...@4ax.com...
> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
If neither of these appeal to you, than there's no point in getting an iPhone.
And an iPhone is certainly one of the most expensive phones you can end up
with, once the subscription is included.
Personally I'd rather have an Android phone anyway: Apple is just too
locked-down for my taste.
Although at present I have a Windows Mobile phone... but an old version (6.5)
that's reached its end-of-life as far as Microsoft is concerned.
---Joel
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:f4jri69ras46vaipa...@4ax.com...
>> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
>
>The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
I don't "browse" from my phone. Why would anyone want to?
>
>There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
>it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
>http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
Games are for children ;-)
>
>If neither of these appeal to you, than there's no point in getting an iPhone.
>
>And an iPhone is certainly one of the most expensive phones you can end up
>with, once the subscription is included.
>
>Personally I'd rather have an Android phone anyway: Apple is just too
>locked-down for my taste.
>
>Although at present I have a Windows Mobile phone... but an old version (6.5)
>that's reached its end-of-life as far as Microsoft is concerned.
>
>---Joel
>
>
I guess I'm OK as I stand.
who where
wrote:
I suggest adding the words "without attracting a penalty" to 2.
DevilsPGD
<To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> was claimed to have
wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:08:16 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
><zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>>message news:f4jri69ras46vaipa...@4ax.com...
>>> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
>>
>>The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
>
>I don't "browse" from my phone. Why would anyone want to?
With that attitude, perhaps you'd be happier renting a wall phone from
ma bell and putting it in your kitchen? I mean really, why would anyone
want to talk on the phone anywhere but in their kitchen?
There are plenty of reasons, the first few that come to mind would be:
Looking up an address or phone number, or store hours. Killing time in
the doctor's office. Price comparison. Because you can.
>>There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
>>it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
>>http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
>
>Games are for children ;-)
There's a lot more functionality available than just games.
Jim Thompson
<Still-Just-A-...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>In message <qmuui65fsf1hk8gko...@4ax.com> Jim Thompson
><To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> was claimed to have
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:08:16 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
>><zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>>>message news:f4jri69ras46vaipa...@4ax.com...
>>>> What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
>>>
>>>The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
>>
>>I don't "browse" from my phone. Why would anyone want to?
>
>With that attitude, perhaps you'd be happier renting a wall phone from
>ma bell and putting it in your kitchen? I mean really, why would anyone
>want to talk on the phone anywhere but in their kitchen?
Poor baby! I'm contemplating doing away with Ma Bell and going to a
docking station to make my cell phone(s) the home phones.
>
>There are plenty of reasons, the first few that come to mind would be:
>Looking up an address or phone number, or store hours.
I've lived in Phoenix so long (~49 years) I could drive a cab without
needing a map or GPS ;-)
>Killing time in
>the doctor's office. Price comparison. Because you can.
I read books ;-)
>
>>>There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
>>>it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
>>>http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
>>
>>Games are for children ;-)
>
>There's a lot more functionality available than just games.
When I crave entertainment I turn on the DVR or DVD player, or go out
to a movie theater.
Joel Koltner
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:08:16 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
> <zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
> I don't "browse" from my phone. Why would anyone want to?
People find it useful? (...I know I do...)
>>There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
>>it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
>>http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
> Games are for children ;-)
Yeah, and my grandfather (if he were still alive, he'd be about 15 years
older than you) felt the same about movies. :-)
I would think you might at least like games such as Sudoky or crossword
puzzles?
> I guess I'm OK as I stand.
Your have enough grandkids and inlaws that sooner or later I'm sure one will
end up with an iPhone and you can try it out during Thanksgiving inbetween the
debate over whether getting the illegals out of Arizona is more or less of a
priority as getting rid of Obamacare. :-)
One application I left out is navigation -- iPhones (and other smartphones
with big screens) pretty much eliminate the need for a separate GPS navigation
"box."
Tethering a smartphone to, e.g., a laptop is a popular way to obtain Internet
access on the "big screen" when you're not covered by, e.g., WiFi... AT&T has
made this very difficult to do on iPhones, however. (I did this last weekend
as I wasn't up for paying $13/day for the Portland Mariott's WiFi... sheesh!)
---Joel
Joel Koltner
> I read books ;-)
iPhones (and similar) make pretty good eBook readers. (Granted, depending on
your eye sight, the screen size might be a little small...)
I've only read a couple complete novels on my phone, but my wife has head
dozens of books on an old Palm Treo.
Jim Thompson
<zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
>message news:qmuui65fsf1hk8gko...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:08:16 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
>> <zapwireD...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>The web browser is about 10x better than what your LG VX9800 has.
>> I don't "browse" from my phone. Why would anyone want to?
>
>People find it useful? (...I know I do...)
>
>>>There are about 1000x more apps (including lots of good games) available for
>>>it than for your LG VX9800 (see, e.g.,
>>>http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/the-best-iphone-apps/ ).
>> Games are for children ;-)
>
>Yeah, and my grandfather (if he were still alive, he'd be about 15 years
>older than you) felt the same about movies. :-)
>
>I would think you might at least like games such as Sudoky or crossword
>puzzles?
>
>> I guess I'm OK as I stand.
>
>Your have enough grandkids and inlaws that sooner or later I'm sure one will
>end up with an iPhone and you can try it out during Thanksgiving inbetween the
>debate over whether getting the illegals out of Arizona is more or less of a
>priority as getting rid of Obamacare. :-)
>
>One application I left out is navigation -- iPhones (and other smartphones
>with big screens) pretty much eliminate the need for a separate GPS navigation
>"box."
My Q45 has a BIG screen on the dash ;-)
>
>Tethering a smartphone to, e.g., a laptop is a popular way to obtain Internet
>access on the "big screen" when you're not covered by, e.g., WiFi... AT&T has
>made this very difficult to do on iPhones, however. (I did this last weekend
>as I wasn't up for paying $13/day for the Portland Mariott's WiFi... sheesh!)
>
>---Joel
I travel rarely/ Even then I can wait until my hotel room for such
stuff, though E-mail is available on my phone as a trivial app.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
I got my wife a B&N color Nook for Christmas. She loves it (she had a B&W one
before). AIUI, they're going to come out with software to make it into a
"tablet PC", of some sort.
mi...@sushi.com
EDGE is compatible, but not 3G.
Mel Knight
> Just note that AT$T and T-mobile have different 3G frequencies. Their
> EDGE is compatible, but not 3G.
Hmmmmmmmm... What does that mean in practice?
If I get an unsubsidized unlocked smartphone from neither carrier, will
that unlocked smartphone work the same on either AT&T or T-Mobile
networks?
mi...@sushi.com
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:01:44 -0800, m...@sushi.com wrote:
> > Just note that AT$T and T-mobile have different 3G frequencies. Their
> > EDGE is compatible, but not 3G.
>
> Hmmmmmmmm... What does that mean in practice?
>
> If I get an unsubsidized unlocked smartphone from neither carrier, will
> that unlocked smartphone work the same on either AT&T or T-Mobile
> networks?
In the US, AT$T and T-mobile use different frequencies for 3G. So
clearly you need to get a phone that is designed to work on the right
network if you want high speed data. AT$T and T-Mobile in the US use
the same EDGE frequencies, or at least their phones are compatible.
Once in a while you find a location where your T-mobile phone roams on
AT$T. If you are getting an unlocked phone, you still need to research
if it had the right bands. It probably isn't all that difficult. Just
don't depend on notations such as "quad band" phone. Both AT&T and T-
Mobile are quad band phones, but the bands are not all the same.
While I'm at it, AT$T has voice roaming, but data roaming will cost
you. T-Mobile doesn't charge for data roaming, at least in the US. T-
Mobile also has UMA on a few models of their phones. If their is a
good cellular company (hey, they are all bandits to some degree), it
has to be T-Mobile.
T-Mobile is a hacker friendly company in a way. They don't block much
of anything. For instance, you can tether off the network for free
with a data plan, perhaps without one. However, the company provides
no help on the hacks, so you need to google. Crackberry for the most
part has the best tips. Incidentally, Blackberry desktop software
provides tethering, so you don't have to do the hacks you might find
on the net anymore for this function.
If you really want to geek out, check out sourceforge.org or
getjar.com for J2ME programs. Blackberry apps don't have to come from
a "store." There is quite a bit of open source J2ME for the platform.
Dr Rig
>>T-Mobile mentioned nothing about any supposed 'Android exception'.
>>So, I will call T-Mobile again to verify:
>
> I suggest adding the words "without attracting a penalty" to 2.
Good suggestion!
I called T-Mobile sales earlier today at 800-866-2453.
I asked about that supposed "Android exception"; it apparently is bogus
and does not exist. All smartphones, they say, are treated similarly.
If you hook up a NON-SUBSIDIZED smartphone to the T-Mobile network, they
(unlike AT&T) will NOT force you to pay for a data plan that you don't
want.
I also asked, as you suggested, about the T-Mobile cancellation fee.
Turns out you were right! There is a $200 cancellation fee if you cancel
the data plan on a SUBSIDIZED smart phone anytime within the two year
contract period.
So, it's looking more and more like the two viable options are:
a) Change the IMEI of the smart phone to look like a dumb phone to AT&T
... or,
b) Simply switch the plan over to T-Mobile (which seems to have what we
need at better prices than AT&T anyway).
I'd still like to explore the option of changing the IMEI of the
smartphone to a dumbphone IMEI ... and need to look up some more on that
since nobody here seems to be an expert on phones. :(
Dr Rig
> smartphones (Android phones are an exception- they get a forced data
> plan)
I called T-Mobile sales earlier today at 800-866-2453.
I asked about that supposed "Android forced dataplan exception"; it
apparently is bogus and does not exist for T-Mobile (it exists only for
AT&T).
All smartphones, T-Mobile sales staff sais, are treated similarly.
If T-Mobile subsidizes the smartphone, then you need the data plan for
two years (or face a 200 dollar cancellation fee).
If you supply your own unlocked smartphone, then you do NOT need a data
plan on the T-Mobile network.
The only caveat, so far, on the user-supplied smartphone is someone said
they are different frequencies for AT&T versus T-Mobile (which I don't
quite understand).
Can someone explain how a user-supplied smartphone on AT&T would be any
"different" than that same user-supplied smartphone on T-Mobile?
mi...@sushi.com
If all you want is wifi, I would take the phone and put it on T-
mobile. You will need a 3rd party browser since the blackberry browser
assumes you have BIS. The Bolt or Opera mini browser will do. I'd
suggest Opera Mini. You can't do OTA loading since you are not on the
network.
http://www.opera.com/mobile
Get the right browser for your phone. Unzip it. I haven't done this
myself , but it should be a jar or jad file. Plug the blackberry into
your PC. It will show up like an external memory device. Drag the file
to the phone. It doesn't particularly matter where you drag it, just
remember where you put the file.
Unplug the phone from the PC. Navigate on the blackberry and find
media. Click on the icon. Now click on the "menu" key (should be the
key to the left of the track ball or pad). Select explore. Navigate
until you find the jad or jar file. Click on it and the OS will
install the browser. Now you have loaded a program without having to
bow down to some freakin' app store, marketplace, or OTA.
http://boltbrowser.com/dnld.html
This link shows jad files for Bolt. I'm not sure if you want the
blackberry specific file or the generic, but I think generic since you
won't have BIS. The procedure is similar to what I wrote above.
Download file to PC. Plug phone into PC. Drag jad file. Unplug phone.
Use explore to find the jad file. Click on it to install the browser.
You probably will not be able to email photographs directly from the
camera software since it except you to have blackberry email. For sure
you can drag and drop to get the files to your PC, or use blackberry
desktop.
I'm not sure you could ever use email on the blackberry, at least with
the blackberry client. With a working browser, you could use a web
interface to email. Once you have a browser, you should be able to OTA
install software.
The blackberry browser has two modes. One is internet, and the other
is hotspot. You might be able to use the blackberry browser in hotspot
mode without having to go the 3rd party browser route. I know I can
turn off my mobile connection and browse over wifi, but I have a data
plan. You are in uncharted territory.
Blackberry hardware is damn nice. None of that made in China in a
company so shitty that employees jump to their death. All my
blackberries have been made in Canada, though occasionally some show
up from Mexico or Europe.
One bug in the older blackberries is the trackball. It wears out and
needs cleaning. The newer blackberries have an infrared trackpad that
is heaven on earth. I ran into the guy on the engineer team that
designed it and did a "I'm not worthy" bow. The trackballs are
replaceable. I got one from ebay when I had a BB Curve.
mi...@sushi.com
> On 1/12/2011 10:47 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 06:01:07 +0100, Sjouke Burry
>
> >> mpm wrote:
> >>> On Jan 11, 11:40 pm, mpm<mpmill...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jan 11, 10:27 am, hamilton<hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On 1/11/2011 5:43 AM, mpm wrote:
> >>>>>> You may be able to get this answered over atwww.wirelessadvisors.com
> >>>>> This link says there is nothing there, are you sure of this spelling ??
> >>>>> hamilton
> >>>> Oops - my bad.
> >>>> It's not plural.
>
> >>>> Trywww.wirelessadvisor.com
>
>
> > What does an iPhone do that would induce me to buy one?
>
Oh, and Steve says to buy one. Fanbois do what Steve tells them. Even
with the documented bugs in the iphone 4, fanbois still bought it.
Apple jumped the shark when they started to sell Apple rechargeable
batteries. They were rebadged Sanyo ENELOOPs, which are good
batteries, but can't a fanboy buy a freakin' Sanyo battery. Does
everything have to say Apple on it.
Apple is missing out on a great product: Apple toilet paper. The
fanbois will gobble it up.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
wrote:
We missed it Monday night. Just roll up with a van full of TP and sell it for
$1/roll (these pictures don't do it justice):
Joel Koltner
news:4ae489e6-6f2f-4662...@k11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>Apple jumped the shark when they started to sell Apple rechargeable
>batteries. They were rebadged Sanyo ENELOOPs, which are good
>batteries, but can't a fanboy buy a freakin' Sanyo battery.
That's branding for you -- many a fanboy might not know what a good brand of
rechargeable battery is, but they believe that if the battery has Apple's logo
on it, it's probably pretty good. And like most things Apple, they'd probably
be right -- Macs aren't for everyone, but their owners are consistently
happier with them than PC owners are with their machines.
...although personally I'm sticking to Windows and Linux for the moment...
unless someone wants to send me one of the new MacBook Airs...
tlvp
The two networks, at&t and T-Mo, use different frequencies for their HSDPA data:
1700 MHz for T-Mo, but 1900 MHz for at&t. Handsets provided by those two companies
therefore have HSDPA data radios tuned to the part of the spectrum right for *their*
HSDPA data services (and hence wrong for the other providers HSDPA dsata services).
Most of the GSM world's HSDPA data services also run in the 1900 MHz spectrum that
at&t uses. Most HSDPA-capable handsets (or even data modems) choose only *one* of
those two radio spectra to cover, hence won't "do" HSDPA data in the other.
And *that* is why "a user-supplied smartphone" won't work the same on at&t's HSDPA
network as it will on T-Mobile's -- HSDPA data will work 100% on one network and
simply NOT work at all on the other -- UNLESS: that smartphone happens to be one
of very few sets, like the Nokia n8, that does BOTH HSDPA spectra (1700 & 1900).
HTH. And cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP
Dr Rig
> UNLESS: that smartphone happens to be one of very few sets, like the
> Nokia n8, that does BOTH HSDPA spectra (1700 & 1900).
I had to look up "High-Speed Downlink Packet Access"! :)
From Wikipedia ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Downlink_Packet_Access
United States
* AT&T is operating a 3G/HSDPA network, called BroadbandConnect,
currently in most metropolitan markets. Speeds up to 7.2 Mbit/s are
available in most markets. Areas that use UMTS instead of HSUPA as the
uplink protocol are limited to 1.8 Mbit/s speeds.
* T-Mobile USA is currently rolling out a 3g network in the 1.7/2.1
GHz band. Currently T-Mobile USA has rolled out in most of their 29 top
markets and over 120 cities by the end of November 2008 with their 3.5G
7.2 Mbit/s network.
When I look at the "List of HSPA mobile phones" on Wikipedia ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HSPA_mobile_phones
Most smartphones seem to cover HSPA on 2100Mhz, 1900Mhz, & 850Mhz
although some are at 1700Mhz and 900Mhz.
For example, the Apple iPhone 4 seems to allow data on 2100, 1900, 900 &
850 Mhz ... while the Google Nexus One Android phone is only 2100, 1900,
and 850 Mhz.
tlvp
>
> ... * T-Mobile USA is currently rolling out a 3g network in the 1.7/2.1
> GHz band ...
That's the key part: T-Mo USA is, with perhaps a Canadian exception or two, virtually the *only* provider with an HSDPA offering requiring the 1.7 GHz band; in *all* the rest of the world, it's the 1.9 GHz band that's used for HSDPA, and T-Mobile(USA)-targeted equipment just won't manage HSDPA there.
HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
mi...@sushi.com
Google does a pure Android phone on T-mobile. First the G1, then the
G2. Developers buy THAT phone because it is as pure of Android as
possible. Anyway, that is why the google phone is set up for T-Mobile.
The iphone only does 3G on AT$T, hence it picks different bands.
Most Android phones have some proprietary code on them to
differentiate their phone from the rest of the Android pack. If I were
in the Android market, I'd get the google branded phone. However,
would I buy a phone from a company with CIA contracts? Hell no!
Lorenzo Sandini
> There are plenty of reasons, the first few that come to mind would be:
> Looking up an address or phone number, or store hours. Killing time in
> the doctor's office.
Hahaa, well I am a doctor and I can tell you I don't have time to kill
in my office :)
And although I have never owned a Mac or anything else by Apple, I
decided for an iPhone4 for my 40th birthday and I'm happy as a pig in
sh*t. There might be bugs in the iPhone4, but none that I am aware of or
that bothers me anyway.
It sure is expensive, but no subscription is needed here in Finland,
home of the Angry Birds.
Lorenzo
Todd Allcock
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:27:38 -0700, Todd Allcock wrote:
> > T-Mobile still allows users to select no data plan as an option for
most
> > smartphones (Android phones are an exception- they get a forced data
> > plan)
>
> I called T-Mobile sales earlier today at 800-866-2453.
>
> I asked about that supposed "Android forced dataplan exception"; it
> apparently is bogus and does not exist for T-Mobile (it exists only for
> AT&T).
Cool. Good to know.
> If you supply your own unlocked smartphone, then you do NOT need a data
> plan on the T-Mobile network.
>
> The only caveat, so far, on the user-supplied smartphone is someone
said
> they are different frequencies for AT&T versus T-Mobile (which I don't
> quite understand).
>
> Can someone explain how a user-supplied smartphone on AT&T would be any
> "different" than that same user-supplied smartphone on T-Mobile?
Because handsets are oen sold in different configurations for different
carriers, and most phones, due to available chipset designs, only support
three 3G frequency bands.
T-Mo was late to the 3G party, and bought the only spectrum available at
the time in a spectrum auction: 1700MHz. So T-Mo uses 1900MHz for GSM/2G
data, and 1700MHz for 3G. AT&T uses 850MHz and 1900MHz for both 2G and 3G.
AT&T-branded smartphones typically lack 1700MHz, preventing them from
utilizing 3G on T-Mo, and T-Mo-branded phones typically lack 850 and 1900
3G (usually opting for European 3G frequencies instead, allowing the same
handsets to be sold by T-Mo Europe and T-Mo USA.)
Both companies' handsets support GSM and slower 2G data at both 850 and
1900.
My Voda Sony X1 is a 3G phone, but only works at 2G speed on T-Mo. The
Euro versions, like mine, use two European 3G bands and one North American.
The NA version has two American 3G freqs and one European.
do...@24.usenet.us.com
> However, according from my calls with AT&T Customer Service, if I plug my
> AT&T SIM card into any smartphone (even if I borrow a non-AT&T unlocked
> smartphone), AT&T will automatically charge me $25/month for a dataplan
> (the higher of their two byte-charge dataplans, BTW).
That seems not to be true.
Someone that I might know might have had their corporate Blackberry plan
canceled. They might have been issued a new AT&T phone with no data plan.
They might have plugged that SIM into their Blackberry, and continued to
use it, including WiFi Access, but no cellular data at all.
Another person might have taken the SIM from a Blackjack with data to a
blackberry with data, and be working fine.
I have heard that the opposite is bad pizza.
A Blackberyy-plan SIM in any non-Blackberry phone hits As-You-Go rates.
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Dr Rig
> That's the key part: T-Mo USA is... requiring the
> 1.7 GHz band; in *all* the rest of the world, it's the 1.9 GHz band
> that's used for HSDPA, and T-Mobile(USA)-targeted equipment just won't
> manage HSDPA there.
Yikes. That's something they don't tell you when you call 'em up! :(
Is the point that a user, if they want to use data on either T-Mobile or
AT&T, must have a smartphone that does data at both 1.7 Ghz and 1.9 Ghz?
Do I understand it right that the spec that makes a smartphone do data on
either network is mainly whether the smartphone does either 1.7 Ghz or
1.9 Ghz or both?
Dr Rig
> Someone that I might know might have had their corporate Blackberry plan
> canceled. They might have been issued a new AT&T phone with no data
> plan. They might have plugged that SIM into their Blackberry, and
> continued to use it, including WiFi Access, but no cellular data at all.
OK. Now we get into some unfortunate details.
Yes. AT&T will allow a "smartphone exclusion" for people who had a
smartphone before their policy went into effect and who then subsequently
drop their smartphone plan (whether or not they put the SIM card into a
dumphone or a smartphone).
What that means is that OLD plans are grandfathered with AT&T; this
smartphone requirement for data only applies to NEW plans (or changes to
a newly subsidized smartphone from AT&T).
But for NEW plans, AT&T swears they will add the more expensive dataplan
(currently $25/month) if they detect an IMEI of a smartphone (and if you
don't have the grandfathered-in smartphone exclusion).
What seems criminal is that they can FORCE you to have a dataplan even if
you don't want it - and - as it seems to turn out - if you have a T-
Mobile branded unlocked phone, then you can't even use the speeds of
AT&T's network.
Yet you have to pay for a plan you don't want, don't use, and can't make
full use of.
That's why I'm STILL hoping to find a way to change the IMEI number ...
but it's looking mighty slim right now for the chance that anyone knows
how to change the IMEI number in the USA (where it's perfectly legal).
Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
>Q: How can I change the IMEI of a smartphone to spoof a non smartphone?
Don't know and don't care. I had exactly the same problem but with
Verizon. If I activate a smartphone, Verizon will automagically tack
on the cost of the data plan that I'll never use. I've tried to
bypass this policy with Verizon and without any success. It's a cash
cow for the cell providers as many users don't even realize that
they're paying for an added data plan.
What I've done is remove the cellular provider from my data use and
have been carrying two devices for about 1.5 years. One is a generic
cell phone (LG VX8300) and the other is a jailbroken iPhone 3G that is
NOT activated with AT&T. The phone does the talking while the iPhone
3G does the data, schedule, address book, games, utilities, etc. All
of my customer and favorite locations have wi-fi so I don't really
need cellular data. Carrying two devices is not elegant or cool, but
it is cheap and works fairly well.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
mi...@sushi.com
GSM is packet based. As far as I know, voice and data are the same,
though I assume voice packets gets priority routing. So we are not
talking just data, but voice too. EDGE has been hacked. 3G has sort of
been hacked, but it is quite secure.
CDMA is where voice and data are different. The Verizon iphone 4 will
not be able to do voice and high speed data at the same time. There is
a chip (and I assume filter) in the works to allow this, but it won't
make the first Verizon iphone 4. Thus the iphone 4 on verizon will be
shittier than the iphone 4 on GSM, but fanbois won't care.
Basically the Verizon iphone 4 is to stop Android from eroding the
iphone market. The product is so bad that Jobs didn't even show up for
the announcement.
do...@24.usenet.us.com
> mobile. You will need a 3rd party browser since the blackberry browser
> assumes you have BIS. The Bolt or Opera mini browser will do. I'd
Not!
A brand new Blackberry Bold 9000, from AT&T.
No SIM, no activation of any sort, was able to connect and surf via WiFi.
The little "WiFi" indicator stayed dim, didn't go bright like it normally
would with a data plan enabled SIM inserted.
Todd Allcock
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:22:21 -0500, tlvp wrote:
> > That's the key part: T-Mo USA is... requiring the
> > 1.7 GHz band; in *all* the rest of the world, it's the 1.9 GHz band
> > that's used for HSDPA, and T-Mobile(USA)-targeted equipment just won't
> > manage HSDPA there.
>
> Yikes. That's something they don't tell you when you call 'em up! :(
>
> Is the point that a user, if they want to use data on either T-Mobile
or
> AT&T, must have a smartphone that does data at both 1.7 Ghz and 1.9 Ghz?
For high speed (3G) data, yes. 2G (GPRS/EDGE) data will work on the
"wrong" network. I use my 3G smartphones as 2G phones on T-Mo.
(Ironically, I also have two T-Mo-branded 1700MHz 3G smartphones, but I
prefer the Sony to either, so I put up with slower data.)
>
> Do I understand it right that the spec that makes a smartphone do data
on
> either network is mainly whether the smartphone does either 1.7 Ghz or
> 1.9 Ghz or both?
3G phones list the "GSM" (2G) and 3G/UMTS frequencies separately in the
specs, so be careful. My Sony, for example, is 850/900/1800/1900 GSM and
900/1900/2100 3G, and my HTC HD7 is 850/900/1800/1900 GSM and
900/1700/2100 3G. All US GSM phones have 1900 GSM.
The only 1700/1900 3G smartphone I'm aware of is the Nokia N8, a Symbian-
based device.
DevilsPGD
claimed to have wrote:
>In alt.internet.wireless mi...@sushi.com <mi...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
>> mobile. You will need a 3rd party browser since the blackberry browser
>> assumes you have BIS. The Bolt or Opera mini browser will do. I'd
>
>Not!
>
>A brand new Blackberry Bold 9000, from AT&T.
>No SIM, no activation of any sort, was able to connect and surf via WiFi.
>The little "WiFi" indicator stayed dim, didn't go bright like it normally
>would with a data plan enabled SIM inserted.
A dim "WiFi" indicator indicates that the device hasn't connected to a
BlackBerry infrastructure yet. You may have a usable wifi connection at
this point, but BIS and BES/MDS stuff won't yet be available.
This is expected when you haven't activated with a carrier or inserted a
SIM since both are required for BIS access (and you'd know if you
activated on a BES over wifi -- this seems to be possible with a valid
SIM inserted, even if the cellular radio is disabled and the SIM isn't
activated)
Any software that use direct TCP sockets (and therefore can go over wifi
without relying on BIS or BES/MDS) will work, but HTTP libraries that
rely on BIS won't.
Even the internal browser may work, if you set it to HotSpot mode.
DevilsPGD
<elecc...@AnoOspamL.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>The only 1700/1900 3G smartphone I'm aware of is the Nokia N8, a Symbian-
>based device.
BlackBerry 9780 supports HSPA: AWS (1700,2100), 2100 MHz
GSM: 1900/1800/900/850 MHz.
Prinzip Gavrilo
Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> The phone does the talking while the iPhone
> 3G does the data, schedule, address book, games, utilities, etc. All
> of my customer and favorite locations have wi-fi so I don't really
> need cellular data. Carrying two devices is not elegant or cool, but
> it is cheap and works fairly well.
Interesting. An iPod would work, too, if you're not using the 'phone bit
of it. An iPad too, but they're expensive and bigger to carry around.
--
Next year in Sarajevo ...
mi...@sushi.com
mi...@sushi.com
C...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> In message <igu1nb$cn...@blue.rahul.net> d...@24.usenet.us.com was
>
> claimed to have wrote:
> >In alt.internet.wireless m...@sushi.com <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
>
> >> mobile. You will need a 3rd party browser since the blackberry browser
> >> assumes you have BIS. The Bolt or Opera mini browser will do. I'd
>
> >Not!
>
> >A brand new Blackberry Bold 9000, from AT&T.
> >No SIM, no activation of any sort, was able to connect and surf via WiFi.
> >The little "WiFi" indicator stayed dim, didn't go bright like it normally
> >would with a data plan enabled SIM inserted.
>
> A dim "WiFi" indicator indicates that the device hasn't connected to a
> BlackBerry infrastructure yet. You may have a usable wifi connection at
> this point, but BIS and BES/MDS stuff won't yet be available.
>
> This is expected when you haven't activated with a carrier or inserted a
> SIM since both are required for BIS access (and you'd know if you
> activated on a BES over wifi -- this seems to be possible with a valid
> SIM inserted, even if the cellular radio is disabled and the SIM isn't
> activated)
>
> Any software that use direct TCP sockets (and therefore can go over wifi
> without relying on BIS or BES/MDS) will work, but HTTP libraries that
> rely on BIS won't.
>
> Even the internal browser may work, if you set it to HotSpot mode.
Precisely why I suggested 3rd party browsers that do not require BIS,
and which I provided a means to install without OTA.
For wifi, I think the phone would work as is. For use on the air,
presumably using airtime, the APN would have to be set. For instance,
my APN (access point name) is set to epic.tmobile.com. No password
requires. This is in the TCP/IP menu under options.There are lists of
APN on the net for various providers.
Todd Allcock
Sorry if I wasn't clear- I meant the N8 had both 1700 AWS and 1900 UMTS
in the same device (as well as 850 and 2100, IIRC. The only quad-band
UMTS phone I'm aware of.)
The BB 9780 comes in two tri-band versions- one with 900/1700/2100 UMTS
and one with 850/1900/2100 UMTS. The N8, therefore supports 3G on either
AT&T or T-Mobile (or Rogers and Wind if you prefer!) while either model
of 9780 would only support 3G on one or the other.
DevilsPGD
<elecc...@AnoOspamL.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>Sorry if I wasn't clear- I meant the N8 had both 1700 AWS and 1900 UMTS
>in the same device (as well as 850 and 2100, IIRC. The only quad-band
>UMTS phone I'm aware of.)
Ahh okay, I'm with you now. Carry on. :)
tlvp
I find the image of a doctor "happy as a pig in sh*t" a bit septic.
I do hope you scrub before attending to patients :-) .