Favorite Tektronix Scope
Too_Many_Tools
in the sky.
What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
another series?
Thanks
TMT
Steven Swift
>Thanks
>TMT
I use the new Tek DPO scopes for most work, but keep 7904 (500MHz) with
high speed plug-ins and samplers for the times I need analog.
You can get 7k scopes for almost nothing. The DPOs will cost a bunch.
Steve.
--
Steven D. Swift, nova...@eskimo.com, http://www.novatech-instr.com
NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997
206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA
Scott Dorsey
The 7000 series is hard to beat. It's stable, it's not that hard to
work on, and there are plenty of useful plug-ins available at reasonable
prices.
That said, I still have a 545 on my bench at work. The calibration contract
just went over to a new company and the new cal guys aren't really sure what
to make of it....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Pooh Bear
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
> >in the sky.
> >
> >What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
> >
> >I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
> >another series?
>
> The 7000 series is hard to beat. It's stable, it's not that hard to
> work on, and there are plenty of useful plug-ins available at reasonable
> prices.
>
> That said, I still have a 545 on my bench at work. The calibration contract
> just went over to a new company and the new cal guys aren't really sure what
> to make of it....
Goodness. I had to get rid of a couple of 545s years ago ( no room to keep them
).
My current scope at home is a 465. Basic but nice.
Graham
James F. Mayer
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136148561.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
an analog scope.
Dino Papas
be able to "save" the display and then be able to make measurements on
the signal at your leisure. Especially nice when looking at the slew
rate of the slower op-amps.
Dino KL0S/4
In article <t8Ztf.955$ZA2...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
Ken Scharf
mainframe scope, or prefer a "portable"?
I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
are easy to work on, and parts are available from many sources
(the nuvistor tubes in the front end and the tunnel diodes in
the sweep circuits can be a bit hard to find, but are available).
The 485 is a look a like that is all solid state with higher BW
but many do not consider it as good a scope design. I would not
turn one away if it were cheap enough though, when working they
do a good job.
The 453,454,485 scopes have a good CRT that will give years of
service. I've been told that the 465-475 series (larger tube)
will suffer from CRT burn-out eventually, the 453-454-485 scopes
rarely need a new crt. (The company where I got the scope from
had bought spare parts to keep all their scopes going, they NEVER
replaced a 453-454 crt but used up all their 465-475 crt spares).
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On 1 Jan 2006 12:49:22 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Depends on what you want to use it for.
If you want an older, inexpensive, general purpose 100 Mhz scope, I
think the 465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made. They sold for
about $2500 back in the '70s and were worth every penny.
Ok, I'm a bit prejudiced because I worked on the production line for
both models for three years, testing and calibrating. In that time I
did about 2000 of them.
They have been out of production for more than 20 years now, but a
good one can still be had. Shop around. Tek built them to last.
73, Bill W6WRT
p.s. Actual quote from a Tektronix customer: "I gave my purchasing
people instructions that they can buy any kind of scope they want, as
long as they are blue and come from Beaverton, Oregon."
john jardine
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136148561.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
gave 5 years continuous, unremitting, troublefree service. Lovely bit of
kit. Looked right, felt right and offered a vast, soul pleasing array of
buttons and knobs.
Switched on with the fan purring away, I knew that I was at one with the
world.
Sadly, the display character generator started to fail. Even bought a
service manual and had a poke about. Joy was not to be, a Tek chip was
giving up the ghost. I knew then it's life was drawing to an honourable
close and another Tek scope would have to be sought.
I'd previously fancied the more modern Tek 2445, so downloaded a service
manual.
Shock-horror!, perusal of the circuitry revealed that there is nothing in
them other than a few special Tek chips.
Ended up buying a 100MHz Hitachi scope (equiv of $160). It does much more
than my old Tek, having benefit of modern uP aided cursors and measurements
etc. It's also smaller, lighter and repairable.
I love using it but I can't help feeling there's something missing that's
really crucial. Something that raises an instrument from the status of
'nice' to that of 'beloved'. (probably the Tek fan :).
Obviously I need to get out more.
regards
john
zwsd...@gmail.com
john jardine wrote:
> I'd previously fancied the more modern Tek 2445, so downloaded a service
> manual.
> Shock-horror!, perusal of the circuitry revealed that there is nothing in
> them other than a few special Tek chips.
I've got a 2445, which I've had for about six years. It was the first
equipment purchase made when I started a new job; it was purchased
reconditioned from Tucker. I inherited the scope when that employer
went bankrupt. I enjoy it very much, but need storage... I have a
TDS210 (same provenance) which is pretty good, but I lust after the HP
scope I have at work, which has two analog channels and 16 digital
channels, and LOADS of memory... *sigh*. So many projects, so little
time and money :)
James Sweet
I love my 465B, depends on what you need in a scope though.
John-Del
I have used a 7603 for about 15 years for general troubleshooting, and
it's my favorite scope. It's rock solid, and bright and sharp. I
haven't been able to find a horiz plug-in with TV sync, but the trigger
is so good I can get it to lock on video anyway. Only problems are the
huge Mallory capacitors in the power supply that will open without
warning. Replace all of these and you'll have no trouble at all.
John
Paul Burridge
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
>in the sky.
>
>What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
Tek 475.
I have fancier scopes that do fancy stuff, but the 475 is an all-time
*classic* par excellence. I love it so much I also use it as a
decorative centrepiece for the dining room table.
--
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd" - William Blake
Rube
lots of great info on new and older models.
perhaps you can make a few bucks parting
out the older scope.
John Larkin
>"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
>>in the sky.
>
>>What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
>
>>I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
>>another series?
>
>>Thanks
>
>>TMT
>
>I use the new Tek DPO scopes for most work, but keep 7904 (500MHz) with
>high speed plug-ins and samplers for the times I need analog.
>
>You can get 7k scopes for almost nothing. The DPOs will cost a bunch.
>
>Steve.
7104 is an even nicer analog scope, with its phenomenal writing rate.
A used 11801 or 11802 and a sampling head will get you a 12 or 20 GHz
dual-trace digital scope for under $2K, a *much* nicer sampling system
than the 7000-series stuff.
My everyday scope is a TDS2012, which is great for most things. You
can take beautiful photos of the color screen for engr notes, manuals,
or test procedures.
Great plugin: 7A22 (or 1A7A, for the 547) which has switchable
bandwidth and differential input down to 10 uV/cm.
John
Mike Andrews
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
Tek 465M (465B plus digital meter stuff) is my favorite of the ones
in the shop. Next fave is a non-Tek: Phillips PM3055.
--
Mike Andrews W5EGO 5WPM
mi...@mikea.ath.cx Extra
Tired old sysadmin working on his code speed
Arthur Harrison
stopped making this, along with all their analog scopes, which is a cryin'
shame, since digital really isn't good for everything.
-Art
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136148561.9...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Too_Many_Tools
One feature of the 7000 series that I have appreciated is the plugin
capability.
Spectrum analyzer, semiconductor tester, differential amps, etc. all
add to its flexibility.
Does anyone have a history of the 7000 series?
Another issue I have seen with the older scopes is at least one can
usually repair them....with parts from another parts scope. The newer
scopes are reaching the point of throw away status with no parts
available and if by chance they are, the price prevents a reasonable
repair.
TMT
Dave Plowman (News)
Bill Turner <no...@nohow.com> wrote:
> If you want an older, inexpensive, general purpose 100 Mhz scope, I
> think the 465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made. They sold for
> about $2500 back in the '70s and were worth every penny.
Yup. Does everything most need from a scope. But in the UK, they still
fetch decent money.
--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Jim Yanik
news:1136164871.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> Does anyone have a history of the 7000 series?
What you want is the book "Winning with People;The First 40 Years of
Tektronix",by Marshall M.Lee,published by Tektronix,10/86
There's no ISBN number,though.Maybe you can find a copy on Ebay.
It's a fantastic story about Tek from start to the late 1980's.
Unfortunately,it does not cover the decline of Tek.
> The newer
> scopes are reaching the point of throw away status with no parts
> available and if by chance they are, the price prevents a reasonable
> repair.
That is the new TEK.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Pooh Bear
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
> In article <66ngr1hin5creudun...@4ax.com>,
> Bill Turner <no...@nohow.com> wrote:
> > If you want an older, inexpensive, general purpose 100 Mhz scope, I
> > think the 465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made. They sold for
> > about $2500 back in the '70s and were worth every penny.
>
> Yup. Does everything most need from a scope. But in the UK, they still
> fetch decent money.
You'll find them regularly on ebay btw.
I'd rather like a 2465 though. They do indeed fetch quite a fair price
still.
Graham
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:12:47 +0100, Paul Burridge
<p...@shove.your.spam.up.your.arse.atlanticstar.co.uk> wrote:
>I have fancier scopes that do fancy stuff, but the 475 is an all-time
>*classic* par excellence. I love it so much I also use it as a
>decorative centrepiece for the dining room table.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now there's my kind of guy!!
73, Bill W6WRT
PaulCsouls
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
This page is useful for figuring out what's for sale on ebay. It also
has a link to the Tek 7000 Faq.
John Popelish
(snip)
>
> I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.
That's just crazy talk!
Spehro Pefhany
He's crocheted the nicest doily and 'scope cosy for it too.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Robert Baer
Well, you *could* earn consulting fees to train them...
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:47:45 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
>He's crocheted the nicest doily and 'scope cosy for it too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just thinking about it brings tears to my eyes. :-)
73, Bill W6WRT
John Crighton
wrote:
>
>If you want an older, inexpensive, general purpose 100 Mhz scope, I
>think the 465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made. They sold for
>about $2500 back in the '70s and were worth every penny.
>
>Ok, I'm a bit prejudiced because I worked on the production line for
>both models for three years, testing and calibrating. In that time I
>did about 2000 of them.
Hello Bill,
you specifically say "465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made"
Can you elaborate a little bit more there Bill. As a Tekscope
enthusiast, I am just interested to know what the improvements
were to the 465B over the 465 to make it more highly sought after.
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
John Crighton
<wa2mze...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
>I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
>are easy to work on,
Hello Ken,
I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.
My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
practical experience.
I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
which is buried in the heart of the onion?
Slip the covers off your instrument, yes that is
very easy, a matter of seconds. Now have a look
and tell me how to clean the timebase switch?
How many hours would it take to remove the soldered
wiring off the boards so that they can be removed to
gain access to the switch and then solder the wires back
with nice factory quality solder joints, not with quick
blob soldering with insulation peeling back off the wires.
Quality work only.
Several minutes work would be easy if there was
connectors on the boards but not in this scope.
When we talk about "hours" we are in a different
category......pain in the butt/difficult.
How long would it take you, Ken, to clean the switch
from woa to go? Scope back up and working?
How long would it take you to remove the fan, fan wiring
tag strips and fan mounting brackets?
How do you get your screw driver on the screws holding
the brackets when there are modules covering them up?
Just have a quick look then come back and tell me
if you still reckon this scope is easy to work on, in the
inner sanctums.
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
Winfield Hill
>
> I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
> timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
> How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
> which is buried in the heart of the onion?
I hope you're giving a hypothetical example, because if
you really do need to "clean" a Tektronix scope switch,
your scope may already be a lost cause. Time to move on.
--
Thanks,
- Win
K3HVG
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
> in the sky.
>
> What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
>
> I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
> another series?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
>
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 07:08:18 GMT, joh...@tpg.com.au (John Crighton)
wrote:
>Hello Bill,
>you specifically say "465B (not the 465) was the best Tek ever made"
>
>Can you elaborate a little bit more there Bill. As a Tekscope
>enthusiast, I am just interested to know what the improvements
>were to the 465B over the 465 to make it more highly sought after.
>
>Regards,
>John Crighton
>Sydney
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In spite of having the number in common, the 465 and 465B are
completely different scopes. Their performance specs are nearly
identical but inside the box, their circuitry is completely different.
The "B" is much easier to calibrate and uses soldered-in transistors
instead of socketed ones, a great advantage especially when the scope
gets old and sockets start to get cranky.
I wouldn't turn down a 465 if that was the only thing available, but
all us calibration techs greatly preferred the 465B.
73, Bill W6WRT
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:24:23 GMT, joh...@tpg.com.au (John Crighton)
wrote:
>I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
>because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
>to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John is right. Tek scopes are not "easy" to work on, at least not the
solid state ones.
My first day on the job as a 465 calibration tech I went home with a
headache and almost called in the next day and quit. I had done TV
repair for 20 years but had never seen such complicated, unfamiliar
circuitry or construction. Fortunately I stuck it out and came to
appreciate them for what they were: The best scopes in the world.
73, Bill W6WRT
Bill Turner
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On 2 Jan 2006 02:50:58 -0800, Winfield Hill
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I hope you're giving a hypothetical example, because if
> you really do need to "clean" a Tektronix scope switch,
> your scope may already be a lost cause. Time to move on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If Tek scopes of that vintage have one Achilles heel, it's the tiny
fork-shaped switch contacts used in many places throughout the unit..
Rarely do they need "cleaning", but rather the contact presssure needs
to be increased slighty. If you know how to do it, it's a quick, easy
fix, but if you don't you can easily destroy the contact.
Because the "fork" of the switch was designed to press against gold
plating, they made the contact pressure as light as possible to
prolong the life of the relatively soft gold. In some cases, it is
just too light and erratic operation is the result.
Here's how to do it right: With a small screwdriver, gently push
against the "U" of the fork, just a tiny amount. The idea is you want
to bend the fork down WITHOUT bending the spring it is attached to.
Under no circumstances try to bend the spring or you will almost
certainly destroy it. Bend only the little gold fork, and bend it only
a very small amount. Done right, it works every time.
73, Bill W6WRT
maxfoo
>I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
>in the sky.
>
>What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
>
>I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
>another series?
>
>Thanks
>
>TMT
Yeah, the 7000's make great boat anchors too ;)
Andy Cuffe
>
>My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
>saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
>what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
>that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
>practical experience.
Well, it's easy compared to other solid state portable Tek scopes.
Its main advantage is far fewer impossible to find custom parts like
all the later solid state scopes.
Andy Cuffe
Too_Many_Tools
is the easiest Tek scope to work on?"
As I have mentioned before I tend to favor the 5000/7000 line because
of the flexibility but my options are open for the next purchase.
I have mentioned that the newer used Tek scopes I have looked into did
not seem to have repairability designed into them. I have also heard of
more than a few horror stories of parts being unobtainable.
TMT
PaulCsouls
wrote:
>
I just had a 485 go flaky. I had to push on the front cover to get it
to work. Is there a web site or a book that would help me get it going
again?
Thanks
PaulC
Rich Grise
> I need to replace an oscilloscope that has gone to the Great Test Bench
> in the sky.
>
> What Tektronix scope do you prefer?
>
> I have always like the 7000 series...would you recommend these or
> another series?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
If Tektronix scopes are still as good as I've always known them to be,
then the only consideration should be your budget. Then get the
toppest-of-the-line you can afford.
Have Fun!
Rich
Too_Many_Tools
Actually the size has never bothered me.
If you look at the footprint a 7000 series scope takes and then compare
it to the space taken up by a supposely "portable" Tek scope, there is
little difference.
Also since my scope rarely leaves my test bench, the weight difference
(which is small) does not matter.
What does matter is dependability, reliability and cost....all factors
that the newer Tek scopes seem to fail at.
TMT
Paul Burridge
wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:10:16 -0500, Ken Scharf
><wa2mze...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
>>I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
>>are easy to work on,
>
>
>Hello Ken,
>I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
>because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
>to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.
I came across this on the 'net, which may or may not be useful in your
particular case, John...
How to FIX the Fuzzy/Wide Trace on Your Tek 465 or 475 Scope!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cleaning the Volts/Div Attenuator Switch Contacts in Tektronix 4XX
Oscilloscopes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might work wonders for your classic Tektronix 400-series scope.
And you can probably do it yourself, even if you've never opened a
scope, before!
(C) Copyright 2004, by Thomas P. Gootee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a copy of the procedure that I sent to a guy with a Tek 475
that had a fuzzy trace, and "distorted" when he adjusted the volts/div
knob. His original email is below, followed by my reply.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------- Original message --------
From: "Mike D"
To: "to...@fullnet.com"
Date: 01-30-03 08:41
Do you repair scopes? I have a tek 475 that powers up but is very
fuzzy and distorts when adjusting the volts/division knob.
I don't know if its worth repairing or if you can reccomend a better
scope from your stock for a comparable price.
Thank You
Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike,
Yes. I do repair *lots* of oscilloscopes. I do it mainly for in-house
instruments that are to be resold. But, I also do it occasionally on a
fee-for-service basis.
The symptoms you describe sound familiar and it sounds like a pretty
easy repair job, which I could complete for $50. However, depending on
your location, if you are in the continental USA, the shipping could
be $20 to $30 or more, each way.
So, let me tell you what I would try first and maybe you can do it
yourself. (I'd hate to see someone spend more than $100 for something
that they might be able to do in less than 30 to 60 minutes.)
Without seeing the scope myself, I could easily be wrong. But, from
your description, my opinion is that, most-likely, the switch contacts
in the volts/div attenuators (and/or also in the trigger-view and
bandwidth-limiter) are dirty or oxidized.
They are very easy to get to and to clean. And, although it might
sound a little daunting to a first-timer, it really isn't difficult at
all, requires only very-basic tools and supplies, and will probably
work wonders for your scope's performance.
Here is the basic procedure:
Unplug the scope and place it on a large, flat, smooth surface, such
as a table or floor.
Remove the scope's case: Start by removing the four screws in the rear
panel's cord-wrap feet. They may be either Phillips-head or "star"
(Torx) types. The feet may come off along with the screws. There are
usually also two other screws, near the top and bottom of the rear
panel, in the center. Remove them, too. After all six of the screws
have been removed, rotate the carry-handle up and out of the way of
the front panel, probably to the "straight up" position.
It is recommended that you stand the scope on its front panel end and
pull the case up and off. But, if you DON'T have a front panel COVER,
you can either try it anyway, hopefully on a padded surface (and
carefully!), or else just leave the scope sitting on its feet.
From the rear of the scope, with your fingers on the sides of the
case, push on the rear panel with your thumbs. If the scope is not
standing on its front panel end, you will need to be very careful, as
the scope slides out of the case, to also support the front end,
keeping it up, so the bottom front edge of the case does not damage
any of the internal parts of the scope by scraping against them.
Note that if the scope's CASE is DENTED, especially if it's dented on
a corner-edge, it could be *VERY* difficult to remove the scope from
its case! It might then require *QUITE* A BIT of brute force, pushing
on the rear panel (or pulling on the edges of the front panel) and
pulling on the rear edges (or pushing on the front edges) of the case.
(Sometimes, in that situation, it helps to alternate between trying to
move the left and right sides; and maybe even also to alternate
between moving the top and bottom.)
After the scope is out (whew!), see the note in the next paragraph,
and then carefully stand the scope on its SIDE, so that the vertical
board, on the side of the scope, behind the v/div knobs, is facing UP.
NOTE! I usually try to lift and move the scope's internal assembly
ONLY by the edges of the front panel (or CRT bezel) and rear panel, or
other solid structural/steel parts. And be careful not to set the
scope on any objects or uneven surfaces that might touch any of the
internal components.
Just behind the volts/div knobs, inside the scope, there are two
silver, metal "boxes", which house the attenuator/switch assemblies.
Remove all of the necessary screws to open the top of one of the
boxes. (Do only one box at a time.)
Inside the box, there are four little rectangular, plastic "attenuator
modules", each usually labeled with "somenumber X" (e.g. "4X"). Using
a longnose pliers, or something similar (or whatever works), grasp one
of them and pull *straight* up, to remove it. I'm not sure if they're
static-sensitive, or not. But, just in case they are, I would lay it
either on an all-metal part of the scope, or on a piece of aluminum
foil, or something like that (i.e. on bare metal), with the pins
facing down.
I usually only remove one attenuator module at a time, just so I don't
get them mixed up. But you could do two at a time, if it's more
convenient (which it often is).
While looking at the area of the circuit board where the attenuator
module came from, rotate the corresponding v/div switch back and
forth, until you can see which positions raise and lower the tiny gold
U-shaped double-contact sets, up and down, from/to the circuit board.
Cut a small piece of clean, white paper, as lint-free as possible,
into a thin strip, a little wider than one set of contacts, and long
enough for you to handle/manipulate (probably something like three or
four inches long and 3/16"-or-so wide?). Do not use cloth, which might
snag, or anything abrasive. (You may need to cut new pieces,
periodically, as you go through this procedure.)
Turn the volts/div knob, to raise the set of contacts that you're
about to clean, up and away from the board.
Carefully slide one end of the paper under the contacts.
Apply a drop or two (or three) of isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol to the
paper, under the contacts. It's OK to get it on the contacts, board,
etc, too. I assume that the more concentrated the isopropyl is, the
better. But I've had good results using the plain 70% drugstore type,
and the 90% drugstore type. (The results would probably be even better
if you use Caig's "De-Oxit" product, for the cleaning, followed by
Caig's "Pro-Gold". They're available at Caig's Website.)
Immediately turn the volts/div switch so that the contacts are lowered
against the paper and then (carefully!) pull the paper *straight* out
from under the contacts. This should probably be repeated several
times for each set of contacts.
Be careful. If you bend the contacts, you may be in trouble. And they
are *quite* fragile. But, it should be fine as long as you try to pull
the paper as parallel to the board as possible. Certainly, don't ever
pull straight *upward* on it, and not even more upward than sideways.
Also, NOTE that a couple of the contact-pairs, the two that are
nearest to the front of the scope, are raised and lowered by the
AC/GND/DC lever-switch, instead of by the volts/div switch.
When all of the visible contacts have been cleaned that way, replace
the attenuator module, carefully, by pushing its pins back into the
holes in the circuit board and then pushing it all the way in. (It
might not hurt to also clean the attenuator module's pins, although
I've never needed to, nor tried to.)
[If you *DO* happen to have some of Caig's "De-Oxit" product, it might
be good to apply a tiny amount to each pin of each attenuator block. I
usually also apply it to the metal shield, wherever it makes contact
with the screws or their mountings (and the the screw-posts/mountings
themselves), and wherever the shield makes contact with any other
metal surfaces, and also on those metal surfaces themselves. And the
screws themselves should also be treated, as should any nearby
"ground" screws (i.e. loosen, treat/clean, and re-seat). ALSO, make
sure that you treat the grounding "spring" that protrudes up from one
of the screws, where the crew touches it, and on its top where it
touches the scope's case (and also do that part of the inside of the
case). You can often SEE the difference in color of the metal, as the
oxidation is removed, especially if you use the concentrated form of
De-Oxit that comes in the small plastic "needle-dropper" bottle.]
Replace any attenuator modules that won't be in the way, any more.
Then, remove the next attenuator module(s) and repeat the above
procedures, until you've gotten to all of the switch contacts in the
"box".
When one whole channel's switches are done, replace the metal cover
over the attenuator/switch assembly and do the second channel in
exactly the same way (or, what the heck, maybe *better*, if that was
your first time...). [NOTE that the "fingers" that may be on one side
of the shield/box need to go back into the same position that they
were in before the top was removed.]
Now that you know what the tiny, gold switch contacts LOOK like, you
will be able to much-more-easily find the SIMILAR ones that are on the
SAME circuit board, but are toward the REAR of the scope, near the
middle of the board. There is no cover over them. So they're MUCH
easier to get to. There should be one group of four of them and
another group of two of them. Moving the Bandwidth-Limiter and
Trigger-View controls, on the front panel, will raise and lower them.
Clean them in the same way as described above, for the attenuator
switch contacts.
One OTHER thing to check: (I'm not sure, at the moment, if this is
only for the 465 model, or if it also applies to the 475:) JUST behind
the metal attenuator/switch shield "boxes", there may be a screw that
connects a metal piece of the box/shield to the circuit board. If that
screw is loose (which I have seen on about a third of the 465 scopes
I've worked on!), or if it doesn't make good contact, you may see very
noticeable effects in the trace(s), such as fuzziness or distortion,
and may see trace-distortion effects when adjusting the trigger-level
control (possibly especially-so at the highest frequencies), and
possibly other triggering problems.
If cleaning the switch contacts doesn't fix the problems you're having
with the "fuzzy" or wide trace, and the attenuator switch anomalies,
further diagnosis and repair may be necessary.
Let me know if you try this, and how it works. If you would still like
me to work on your scope, just let me know.
And let me know if I can be of more help.
Thanks again!
Best regards,
Tom
Tom Gootee
to...@fullnet.com
http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg
--
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd" - William Blake
Phil Hobbs
>
> 7104 is an even nicer analog scope, with its phenomenal writing rate.
Seconded. That microchannel plate CRT is a thing of great beauty. I used to
use one with the Polaroid film plate on the front when I was a grad student.
They had a pretty nice analog storage scope whose number I forget--it was a
portable and looked a lot like a 485.
>
> A used 11801 or 11802 and a sampling head will get you a 12 or 20 GHz
> dual-trace digital scope for under $2K, a *much* nicer sampling system
> than the 7000-series stuff.
I have an 11801A that I use all the time, with the 40 GHz sampling head. I
got it for about a fifth of the cost of the overpriced modern version.
LeCroy is selling a 100 GHz sampling scope, which uses the Picosecond Pulse
Labs 100 GHz sampler. Used to be that LeCroy made nice user interfaces but
couldn't build a vertical amplifier to save their lives.
Cheers,
Phil Hobbs
John Crighton
<Winfiel...@newsguy.com> wrote:
In the 1960s Tek did sell a switch servicing kit for the
large dog kennel size 500 series models with wafer
style rotary switches. I remember a pouch containing
several bightly coloured pencil sized applicators of oil,
grease and various cleaning fluids.
"Time to move on" Oh no! I would never get rid of an
instrument for the want of a bit of effort. My 454 is now on
the reserve bench as back up scope number 3 behind a
couple of 465 scopes. My 454 has a nice clip on metal
cover to protect the front panel. This is the scope I am
more comfortable with lending to friends, knowing that
the front panel is not going to get bashed in transit in the
back of a car.
The slight intermittent problem with the timebase switch
is minor, I can live with that. My 454 from the late 60s
has big wafer switches just like the big 500 series scopes
so cleaning these big wafer switches is easy providing
you can get access to them. Access is the problem
in the 454.
Bill Turner mentioned the U shaped contacts in the
465. Yes that was tricky tending to them but they
are getatable. I would never dump a piece of test
gear because of dodgy switches. I just don't have
the heart to dump any test equipment. I should try
and be stronger but I can't. Being a test equipment
nut is a life crippling disease. :-)
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
Rube
> lots of great info on new and older models.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/
Scott Dorsey
>
>My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
>saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
>what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
>that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
>practical experience.
Everything is relative. If you think the 454 is hard to work on, you should
just SEE the insides of the 7000. Likewise the 7000 is a whole lot easier
to work on than the latest generation of digital scopes.
>I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
>timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
>How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
>which is buried in the heart of the onion?
If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
contacts are tight, first. I don't see contact cleaning needed on
the scopes of this era, although some of the older ones did.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
John Larkin
<pcdhSpamM...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>John Larkin wrote:
>
>>
>> 7104 is an even nicer analog scope, with its phenomenal writing rate.
>
>Seconded. That microchannel plate CRT is a thing of great beauty. I used to
>use one with the Polaroid film plate on the front when I was a grad student.
>
>They had a pretty nice analog storage scope whose number I forget--it was a
>portable and looked a lot like a 485.
>>
>> A used 11801 or 11802 and a sampling head will get you a 12 or 20 GHz
>> dual-trace digital scope for under $2K, a *much* nicer sampling system
>> than the 7000-series stuff.
>
>I have an 11801A that I use all the time, with the 40 GHz sampling head. I
>got it for about a fifth of the cost of the overpriced modern version.
When you start getting powerup timebase errors, which you will, call
me.
>
>LeCroy is selling a 100 GHz sampling scope, which uses the Picosecond Pulse
>Labs 100 GHz sampler. Used to be that LeCroy made nice user interfaces but
>couldn't build a vertical amplifier to save their lives.
>
I'm still mad at Walter for a dirty trick he pulled about 20 years
ago. I built an ff&f equivalent of his 4208 Camac 1 ns TDC module, at
a customer's request. So he cut his price in half the next time he
bid, specifically to kill me. The customer, bless his heart,
disqualified LeCroy on "technical grounds."
John
Scott Dorsey
problem. It appears to be the "PLRT INV & TRIG PICK-OFF" chip, which is
a Tektronix 155-0216-00. Earlier revisions used a Tektronix 155-0032-00.
Tek says support for the monitor (and probably for the rest of the Group 26
products) was discontinued in 1996. They can't tell me what the original
manufacturer's part number is, or even who the original manufacturer of the
chip was, and the service manual lists only the house number.
Any Tek technicians happen to have some of these in the junk box, or know
what the real part number is? The input that takes the base comparison
voltage from the aperture pot is pulling the input way down.
Jim Thompson
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
>I'm still mad at Walter for a dirty trick he pulled about 20 years
>ago. I built an ff&f equivalent of his 4208 Camac 1 ns TDC module, at
>a customer's request. So he cut his price in half the next time he
>bid, specifically to kill me. The customer, bless his heart,
>disqualified LeCroy on "technical grounds."
>
>John
>
I've had that happen once. A competing company with nearly 20 staff
quoted 1/3 what I quoted for a design job.
The potential customer said, "Something's fishy", and gave the
contract to me.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Roy Lewallen
Parts with numbers beginning with 155 are Tek designed and made - they
had their own IC design and production facility. So that's the "real"
part number. I don't know of any Tek made ICs for which anyone else
makes an even roughly equivalent part -- if they did, Tek would have
bought them instead of designing and manufacturing their own, which cost
a small fortune.
Roy Lewallen, W7EL
Jim Yanik
news:1136224229.3...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Actually this raises the next question that I was going to ask...."What
> is the easiest Tek scope to work on?"
T921/22 or T932/35,hands down.
No TEK-made ICs,simple switches,low parts count,all solid-state.
(excluding CRT,of course)
Easy to access all parts of the scope,better than any other TEK scope..
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
Jim Yanik
news:pan.2006.01.02....@example.net:
Just do not plan on repairing or calibrating them yourself.
Their "service manuals" have NO component-level schematics or parts lists.
Calibrations are done by PC-based software,and may call for test equipment
you don't have. Power supplies are purchased-parts.
The TDS scopes are engineered to be module-exchange repair only.
qrk
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.32654.invalid> wrote:
>I will sell the 475 though, two scopes is too much.
Don't you mean "not enough"? Two is sort of a minimum working level. 3
or 4 is nice to have! Can't beat the 465, 475, and 7000 series. Also
use the 305x series when I need storage, math, or documenation.
---
Mark
Jim Yanik
news:dpc915$do8$1...@panix2.panix.com:
> On the basic Tektronix thread, I still have this Tek 650HR with a
> luminance problem. It appears to be the "PLRT INV & TRIG PICK-OFF"
> chip, which is a Tektronix 155-0216-00. Earlier revisions used a
> Tektronix 155-0032-00.
>
> Tek says support for the monitor (and probably for the rest of the
> Group 26 products) was discontinued in 1996. They can't tell me what
> the original manufacturer's part number is, or even who the original
> manufacturer of the chip was, and the service manual lists only the
> house number.
155-xxxx-xx and 234-xxxx-xx ICs were made **BY TEK**(they should have told
you that),and they sold off the IC manufacturing unit to Maxim,who turned
around and stopped making them,as TEK did not buy in the volumes Maxim
wanted.
NO other company makes those 155 or 234 prefixed ICs.
>
> Any Tek technicians happen to have some of these in the junk box, or
> know what the real part number is? The input that takes the base
> comparison voltage from the aperture pot is pulling the input way
> down. --scott
>
>
The one good thing is that the 155-0032-xx was used in a lot of TEK
products.You can find them in 465's,IIRC,on the trigger PCB.
Try Ebay,or search electronic salvage companies that sell used TEK
products.
I worked for TEK for 21.5 years as a service tech in their field
offices,repairing and calibrating scopes,TM500,and TV test equipment.
John Crighton
<p...@shove.your.spam.up.your.arse.atlanticstar.co.uk> wrote:
>I came across this on the 'net, which may or may not be useful in your
>particular case, John...
Hello Paul,
thanks very much for sharing those gems.
I have stored them away.
I had a good laugh at your dining room table
centre piece admisssions and the follow up doily
and scope cosy remarks. Heh Heh heh.....
I must admit when I first got my 465 I just couldn't
keep my hands off it and I had it covered up with
a tea towel in between playing with it.
When you have lusted after something for decades
and you finally get it. Oh what a feeling!
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
John Crighton
>John Crighton <joh...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>My 454 is "not easy" to work on and yet I see people
>>saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
>>what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
>>that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
>>practical experience.
>
>Everything is relative. If you think the 454 is hard to work on, you should
>just SEE the insides of the 7000. Likewise the 7000 is a whole lot easier
>to work on than the latest generation of digital scopes.
Yes I agree everything is relative. An easy to repair
comment should be defined a bit better, perhaps
against time or compared against something else
say removing a hard drive from a home conputer.
Half a dozen screws and the cover is off,
Pull two connectors and remove two or four
mounting screws and the hard drive is out.
I would call that easy.
A job that takes less that 15 minutes I would say is easy.
>>I would like to clean the switch wafers of the main
>>timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
>>How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
>>which is buried in the heart of the onion?
>
>If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
>Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
>places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
>contacts are tight, first.
I must admit I have never come across Cramolin. I will
ask around. If it is available in Sydney, I'll find it.
> I don't see contact cleaning needed on
>the scopes of this era, although some of the older ones did.
>--scott
Oh, I do!
Going by the dates on the boards, I am guessing that
my 454 was built around 1968 and has spent many
years in someones backyard tin shed. The aluminium
metal work is slightly pitted meaning it has been in a
damp area. There was no filter for who knows how long,
one or two decades maybe longer, so the insides are
quite dusty.
Two years shy of forty years of age and the scope still
works. Bloody marvellous! Switches in that environment
of damp and dust can't be expected to remain clean and
reliable. I am just amazed that my 454 scope works as well
as it does even with its dodgy switch.
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
Ken Scharf
> On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:10:16 -0500, Ken Scharf
> <wa2mze...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I have a Tek 454 that I got at a company auction years back where
>>I used to work (paid $150 for it). The 453,453A,454, 454A series
>>are easy to work on,
>
>
>
> Hello Ken,
> I also have a Tek 454. I bought that model
> because I read on groups like this that it is "easy"
> to work on. I must respectively disagree with you.
>
> saying that it is. I am just wondering if you are repeating
> what you have read on the internet supporting a Myth
> that the 454 is easy to work on or speaking from
> practical experience.
>
> timebase switch. My 454 is put together like an onion.
> How do I "easily" gain access to this switch,
> which is buried in the heart of the onion?
>
> very easy, a matter of seconds. Now have a look
> and tell me how to clean the timebase switch?
> How many hours would it take to remove the soldered
> wiring off the boards so that they can be removed to
> gain access to the switch and then solder the wires back
> with nice factory quality solder joints, not with quick
> blob soldering with insulation peeling back off the wires.
> Quality work only.
>
> Several minutes work would be easy if there was
> connectors on the boards but not in this scope.
> When we talk about "hours" we are in a different
> category......pain in the butt/difficult.
>
> How long would it take you, Ken, to clean the switch
> from woa to go? Scope back up and working?
>
> How long would it take you to remove the fan, fan wiring
> tag strips and fan mounting brackets?
> How do you get your screw driver on the screws holding
> the brackets when there are modules covering them up?
> Just have a quick look then come back and tell me
> if you still reckon this scope is easy to work on, in the
> inner sanctums.
>
> Regards,
> John Crighton
> Sydney
>
My comment was based on what I have read. I have the service manual
for the 454 and it is a well written book. The 454 is a a well designed
scope, and parts are available. Fixing ANY high tech scope is NOT a job
for the faint of heart, but at least the parts in the 454 are not
so small (surface mount) that you need an electron microscope to see them!
The older tube based tek's are what you want if you want to restore a
scope yourself. However, if you want to buy a scope in working condition
that you COULD fix yourself (OK substitute the word POSSIBLE for EASY) then
the 45x series is about as "modern" as you want to go.
John Miles
@NOSPAM.16356.invalid says...
> not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
> regareing this issue.
>
> i
>
>
I just tracked down an intermittent in my 2467B's CRT supply, a process
that would have been a lot tougher if I hadn't had both my 485 and 2430A
clipped to various points. Scopes are cheap these days... you want at
least three.
-- jm
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------
Wes Stewart
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <Spam...@spam.net> wrote:
>When would I need two scopes?
You have two eyes don't you? [g]
John Crighton
<wa2mze...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Ken,
Remove the covers from your 454 scope and take a look
from the point of view of access to the inner assemblies.
I wonder if you still say that it is well designed?.
Deliberately threading bunches of wires (small loom) through
round holes in brackets or sub panels is weird. Why not slot holes
to the end of brackets/ sub assemblies/metal panels so that
the cable loom or wires can be slipped out of the slot if a
subassembly has to be moved. Threading wires through round
holes in small bits of metalwork so that they are tied in, I don't
like that sort of design.
No thought for the non Tek trained serviceman.
>Fixing ANY high tech scope is NOT a job
>for the faint of heart, but at least the parts in the 454 are not
>so small (surface mount) that you need an electron microscope to see them!
Agreed.
>The older tube based tek's are what you want if you want to restore a
>scope yourself. However, if you want to buy a scope in working condition
>that you COULD fix yourself (OK substitute the word POSSIBLE for EASY) then
>the 45x series is about as "modern" as you want to go.
I settled on the 465 myself. The first was a goer with problems.
The little U shaped contacts that Bill Turner spoke off.
The second was cosmetically very nice but dead. Shorted tantalum
on the 15V suppluy.
The third was partly robbed of bits. Even had an IC fitted
back to front.
All three are working nicely now. I enjoyed repairing them.
You can get access to most of the 465s innermost parts. Not
a nightmare like the the 454 and yet the 454 gets a great right
up on many websites. I don't know why!
Sorry Ken if I appeared to jump on you.
In regard to the old tube monsters, I gave two of those
away to another enthusiast. 533A and 549.
Tubes cost a lot of money, I just could not afford
to restore them but the other chap is dead keen
to get them working. He has contacts in the US
who will send him parcels of junk picked up from
ham field days and trash and treasure markets.
He has put in his list of wanted items to his friends.
All good fun!
Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
James Sweet
>
>
> I just tracked down an intermittent in my 2467B's CRT supply, a process
> that would have been a lot tougher if I hadn't had both my 485 and 2430A
> clipped to various points. Scopes are cheap these days... you want at
> least three.
>
Scopes are cheap, however space is not, at least not here.
I've got two scopes, a 465B and an ancient but beautiful condition 531A.
I'd get rid of the 531A but I need to find a good home for it, it's in
great shape and works perfectly.
Chuck Harris
> I settled on the 465 myself. The first was a goer with problems.
> The little U shaped contacts that Bill Turner spoke off.
> The second was cosmetically very nice but dead. Shorted tantalum
> on the 15V suppluy.
> The third was partly robbed of bits. Even had an IC fitted
> back to front.
> All three are working nicely now. I enjoyed repairing them.
> You can get access to most of the 465s innermost parts. Not
> a nightmare like the the 454 and yet the 454 gets a great right
> up on many websites. I don't know why!
I will second this line of thought. I have worked on both, and
the 465's, and 475's are way easier to work on than the 453/454.
The 465M is modular, and was designed to be serviced by military
module swapping automatons.
And even easier still is the 2445, and 2465. The parts problem
is a nuisance, but the scopes are wide open, and put together
with the serviceman in mind. Not to mention the fact that there
is no scope, of any vintage, that is nicer to use than a 2465.
-Chuck
OBTW, on my bench, you will find a 585A, 475, 2465, 7633/7D20...,
and a 326.
Kevin G. Rhoads
What plug-ins?
Saandy , 4Z5KS
the analog class.
May be the only concurrent from Tektronis would be a Tek 2465. you can
get one at about 0.6 kilobuck. very nice for the money, with one of the
best triggering circuits I ever saw in 35 years in the field.
Happy new year!
Saandy 4Z5KS
mki...@aol.com
Sydney you can get it from http://www.caprina.com.au/catp.html or see
Caig website for info and other locations, www.caig.com.
I use the deoxIT D5 and DN5 and their proGold products. Great stuff.
Mike
GregS
>I use DeoxIT, works better and comes in a variety of applicators. In
>Sydney you can get it from http://www.caprina.com.au/catp.html or see
>Caig website for info and other locations, www.caig.com.
>I use the deoxIT D5 and DN5 and their proGold products. Great stuff.
>Mike
I worked on an old Nicolet The switches were terrible, most all of them.
I spent weeks trying to clean all the switches, mostly the rotary ones.
I had to use all my toughest cleaners. The hardest part was getting into the
partly sealed switches. I used my best cleaners, alcohol, Contaclean,
Alcohol-Cramolin, Bufffrog cleaner. Over and over. I didn't use Deoxit, because
I ran out. Cramolin is no longer sold as Cramolin. Its called Contaclean by
the Cramolin Co. a German company. Available from InOne, Farnell.
Scott Dorsey
>On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <Spam...@spam.net> wrote:
>not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
>regareing this issue.
When one of your scopes breaks. How will you fix it, without a second
scope?
mki...@aol.com
received it in an Agilent test equipment at work.
I figure if it is spec'ed in there it must be the best. They have an
interesting site, with lots of information and ways of using their
products.
I have a treo 650 which was not charging and communicating - a few
wipes with Progold, oops deoxIT gold and everything is working
perfectly now.
Paul Burridge
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:
>When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
>not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
>regareing this issue.
If you part with that 475, then sooner or later you'll be very, very,
very sorry.
--
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd" - William Blake
Richard Henry
"Ignoramus29795" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29795.invalid> wrote in message
news:BEBuf.1497$1_1...@fe67.usenetserver.com...
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:53:01 +0100, Paul Burridge
<p...@shove.your.spam.up.your.arse.atlanticstar.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:25:10 GMT, Ignoramus16356
> ><ignoram...@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
> >>not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
> >>regareing this issue.
> >
> > If you part with that 475, then sooner or later you'll be very, very,
> > very sorry.
>
>
> Now... I have little interest in homemade radio or audio stuff. So far
> my little forays into electronics centered around power electronics.
> Given that... Is there any possible reason to keep a spectrum
> analyzer?
Emissions compliance testing.
Steven Swift
>I have used a 7603 for about 15 years for general troubleshooting, and
>it's my favorite scope. It's rock solid, and bright and sharp. I
>haven't been able to find a horiz plug-in with TV sync, but the trigger
>is so good I can get it to lock on video anyway. Only problems are the
>huge Mallory capacitors in the power supply that will open without
>warning. Replace all of these and you'll have no trouble at all.
>John
The 7603 is very nice. I use them for the spectrum analyser plug-ins as
the bigger CRT helps. But for normal trouble shooting, I much prefer the
7704A as the basic scope. The same plugins work, but you get a bit more
bandwidth-- up to 200MHz and the fourth slot lets you do some interesting
things with delaying timebases.
For smaller units, I prefer the 475. Nice and solid.
To complement the Tek 3052B digital scopes, I use 7904 with high speed
plugins (like 7A19 and 7B92). The 7904 is the stand for the 3052B.
I use SC502 and SC504 in the TM500 racks when I want to watch something on
the bench without taking up space.
Steve
--
Steven D. Swift, nova...@eskimo.com, http://www.novatech-instr.com
NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997
206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA
Highland Ham
>>my little forays into electronics centered around power electronics.
>>Given that... Is there any possible reason to keep a spectrum
>>analyzer?
>
>
> Emissions compliance testing.
Yes indeed that's is very good purpose if for a spectrum analyser
A long time ago I purchased (in the UK) a spectrum probe useful between
LF and 90 MHz meant for EMC testing in conjunction with a (if you wish
as low as 1 MHz) oscilloscope. I find it a very useful instrument for
homebrewing HF equipment ,although it is of course not a complete
spectrum analyser .
Frank KN6WH / GM0CSZ
Noone
Now in my mid 50's, I am reminded of something my father said. He had
always said, that ever since 1957 , he wanted a Cadillac. In the later
years of his life, hefinally got his wish - he bought a 1957 Cadillac.
For years I have been collecting and restoring the iconic untouchables of
my early days in Engineering. Scopes are like boats, you can never have
too many. But they are useful. My particular weakness has been the HP
141T family of Spectrum Analyzers. What was 20K + then, is now cheap.
Winter nights are spent re-Cap-ing, calibrating, and restoring these
remnants of the last great Analog Spectrum Analyzer.
Like restoring the automobiles of one's youth, these are tangible links to
our own past. Any good tool, kept in working condition is valuable. To
see these Cadillacs of the past brought back to their former glory is
reward enough.
As John said so well, Oh what a feeling!
Blakely
Blakely LaCroix
Minneapolis, Minnesota.
USA
qrk
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.16356.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:48:55 GMT, qrk <Spam...@spam.net> wrote:
>When would I need two scopes? What kind of practical situation? I am
>not desperate for money, but I am short of space. I am open minded
>regareing this issue.
>
>i
1. As others have said, when you need to fix your other scope. My 465
just took a dump a couple weeks ago. Used the 475 to troubleshoot it.
One of the HV ceramic caps has excess leakage :( At least it's a
replaceable part.
2. It's also nice to have a spare when the other scope goes down.
3. Sometimes you just need two scopes to do the job, especially when
your project is divided up between two racks of equipment.
4. Sometimes you need multiple scopes because your events are
asynchronous.
5. Some scopes are better at doing certain tasks like those nifty
microchannel plate intensified scopes.
6. Sometimes you have multiple projects going and it's nice not having
to disassemble your test setup.
7. You may have a 7000 mainframe, but need a portable scope like the
465.
8. It's also nice to have a modern digital scope for slow events, math
functions, and documentation. But, keep those analog scopes around as
they convey more information about the signal at a glance than any
digital scope I've used.
You also mentioned something about spectrum analyzers. Extremely handy
for certain types of work. Depending on the anlyzer, they are great
for characterizing filters, amplifiers, noise in low-level amplifiers,
EMI issues, unwanted oscillations, impedance, and a host of other
things.
---
Mark
Too_Many_Tools
always said, that ever since 1957 , he wanted a Cadillac. In the
later
years of his life, hefinally got his wish - he bought a 1957 Cadillac.
For years I have been collecting and restoring the iconic untouchables
of
my early days in Engineering. Scopes are like boats, you can never
have
too many. But they are useful. My particular weakness has been the HP
141T family of Spectrum Analyzers. What was 20K + then, is now cheap.
Winter nights are spent re-Cap-ing, calibrating, and restoring these
remnants of the last great Analog Spectrum Analyzer.
Like restoring the automobiles of one's youth, these are tangible links
to
our own past. Any good tool, kept in working condition is valuable.
To
see these Cadillacs of the past brought back to their former glory is
reward enough.
As John said so well, Oh what a feeling!
Blakely
Blakely LaCroix
Minneapolis, Minnesota.
USA "
Well said.
TMT
Litzendraht
'scopes?
When I was going to Army radar school in 1966 / 67, We used a Jetronics
545A (I think that's right).
The Jet was fine for school. Triggered sweep and good to at least 30
Mhz. Before I was drafted, all I had at home was a Simpson
"Handiscope". Rated to 100 Khz, but would see a 262 kc. IF signal.
It's comforting to know that once I was assigned permanent duty at an
Army missile site, all we used were Tektronix and Hickok 'scopes.
John
Rube
Caig has DeOxit in 5% and 100% formula,
the 5% works most of the time.
You can get it in standard aerosol (hazmat ship fee ups)
or the pump can D5P (no hazmat fees)
www.caig.com
www.mcmelectronics.com has it in stock
>
> If the switch wafers really are bad, the easiest thing to do is to use
> Cramolin with a very long spray tube. You can get it into very small
> places without having to do as much dissasembly. But make sure the
> contacts are tight, first. I don't see contact cleaning needed on
Rube
our service lady told me about it, she is also
a amateur radio operator like me.
Gary Schafer
I would like to correspond with you on some problems with a 141T.
My email is garys...@comcast.net.
Thanks
Gary K4FMX
Atsunori Tamagawa
>
> Half a dozen screws and the cover is off,
> Pull two connectors and remove two or four
> mounting screws and the hard drive is out.
> I would call that easy.
I own some scopes. Though, my favorite is not one of Tek ones,
but HP-1741A storage scope.
Anyway, I realized that when I troubleshoot my scopes or fix
something with them, I always got extra screws left.
It is a bit annoying experience because I know those extra screw
were being used somewhere.
I think that test equipment are made of way too many extra screws.
> Two years shy of forty years of age and the scope still
> works. Bloody marvellous!
It's probably a matter of total operating time instead of
how old it is. I heard a story from an old analog engineer
saying that when storage scopes were new, they were
SO EXPENSIVE that you just couldn't keep them turned on,
but only when you need to take a vital measurement you were
allowed to turn it on.
If that is true, I think some old storage scopes are actually
bargains instead of to-be-avoied.
Switches in that environment
> of damp and dust can't be expected to remain clean and
> reliable. I am just amazed that my 454 scope works as well
> as it does even with its dodgy switch.
I owned one 454, and later used one 454A. The 454 seemed to
comsume much more power than 454A. In winter, having the 454
closer was nice.
Atsunori
Chuck Harris
> I own some scopes. Though, my favorite is not one of Tek ones,
> but HP-1741A storage scope.
Hmmm? I cannot imagine what you like about the 1741A, but different
strokes for different folks.
Be very careful with that grey horizontal timing switch knob. HP cut two
(or was it 3?) slots that each cover 175 (115?) degrees through the body of the knob.
They did that so that you could see the light mounted on the panel through
the knob. Well, when the switch's lubrication gets a little sticky,
and you get a little enthusiastic (and lord knows the plastic is already
at least 18 years old), you will snap those thin little bits of plastic,
and your knob will be gone, and your scope will be unusable. Forget about
gluing it, as there was barely enough strength with the virgin plastic.
We had dozens of that family of HP scope, and they all went into scrap because
the knobs were unavailable.
Tektronix did the same thing with their horizontal knobs, but they
knew enough about materials engineering to make the body of the knob
out of aluminum, and make the grip surface of the knob out of plastic.
-Chuck
Richard Henry
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:v4edneO2SYsvtCDe...@rcn.net...
I never had a HP scope that I liked, or would use unless there was no Tek
scope available.
Dave Edwards
for HP in '83.
I keep it covered when not being used, so it still looks like new. Perhaps
some day it will crap out, and I'll try a Tek!!
"Richard Henry" <rph...@home.com> wrote in message
news:424tgaF...@individual.net...
Chuck Harris
> Still using the 275Mhz hp1726A that was given to me when I started working
> for HP in '83.
> I keep it covered when not being used, so it still looks like new. Perhaps
> some day it will crap out, and I'll try a Tek!!
I haven't seen that reliability is a problem with the 1726A. They go and
go... Drift is a bad problem, the zero goes all over the place, and needs
constant diddling. It is all but impossible to adjust so that the variable
volts/division knob doesn't shift the zero (and have it stay adjusted). The
horizontal time knob is a really bad problem, as I discussed in an earlier
note. If you haven't taken your scope apart, and oiled that switch's shaft,
and replaced the grease on the ball detent, I would strongly suggest that you
do so. When the knob breaks, it is end of game. I strongly considered turning
out the inside of one of the broken knobs, and making an aluminum version of
the center of the knob. The 1726A I wanted to fix was a complete cherry otherwise.
But, Tek scopes were so easy to find and so cheap, that I couldn't see any
real point. Into the scrap bin it went.
-Chuck
Michael A. Terrell
>
> I never had a HP scope that I liked, or would use unless there was no Tek
> scope available.
Microdyne had shelves full of HP scopes, but most of the techs would
grab one of the beat up Leader 508A scopes.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Mark Moulding
some calibration issues that I never really got resolved. Most of the time,
though, I just used my 475, up until a couple of years ago.
I got rid of the 454 (space reasons), and picked up an HP 54201D digital
scope with logic analyzer-type triggering. Although I haven't needed the
fancy triggering yet (though it would have been really helpful a couple of
times in the past), the scope itself has now become my main scope.
It's good to 300MHz (though I rarely need anything that fast), and I find
I'm using the on-screen measurement capabilities and storage abilities quite
a lot. Of course, the 475 is still sitting right on top, and in fact I used
it to fix a faulty input channel in the 54201D when I first bought it. But
really, the 475 rarely gets turned on now.
Oh - the best part was that the 54201D only cost me $50 at a Ham swap
meet...
--
Mark
"I prefer heaven for climate, hell for company."
"Richard Henry" <rph...@home.com> wrote in message
news:424tgaF...@individual.net...
>
Mark Moulding
obvious ways, and the boards were big, double-sided (not multi-layer), and
gold plated. There were a couple of scary-looking custom IC's, but the
problem in my case was just a burned-up 100 ohm resistor.
I eventually bought (rented and copied, actually) the operator and service
manuals for it, from W J Ford, who were quite easy to deal with and had a
*really* large stock of old manuals.
Don Lancaster
> Richard Henry wrote:
>
>>I never had a HP scope that I liked, or would use unless there was no Tek
>>scope available.
>
The HP 130C was an excellent oscilloscope.
It has been stadily downhill from there.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: d...@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
James Sweet
> Atsunori Tamagawa wrote:
>
>> I own some scopes. Though, my favorite is not one of Tek ones,
>> but HP-1741A storage scope.
>
>
> Hmmm? I cannot imagine what you like about the 1741A, but different
> strokes for different folks.
>
> Be very careful with that grey horizontal timing switch knob. HP cut two
> (or was it 3?) slots that each cover 175 (115?) degrees through the body
> of the knob.
> They did that so that you could see the light mounted on the panel through
> the knob. Well, when the switch's lubrication gets a little sticky,
> and you get a little enthusiastic (and lord knows the plastic is already
> at least 18 years old), you will snap those thin little bits of plastic,
> and your knob will be gone, and your scope will be unusable. Forget about
> gluing it, as there was barely enough strength with the virgin plastic.
>
> We had dozens of that family of HP scope, and they all went into scrap
> because
> the knobs were unavailable.
>
Scrap? Surely a machinist could make a suitable replacement knob for
less than the value of a good scope.
Chuck Harris
You obviously haven't hired a machinist lately. In pristine shape, the
scopes were worth $75 tops, the machine shops charge $100/hour, 1 hour
minimum.
I was going to do the job myself, but balked because even when I was done,
all I would have was a bunch of scopes that no one wanted to buy. We had
them (with the broken/missing knobs in the $15 pile at several hamfests,
and they went nowhere.
-Chuck
Too_Many_Tools
It has been stadily downhill from there. "
I agree.
Why do you think that happened?
TMT
Joel Kolstad
> I was going to do the job myself, but balked because even when I was done,
> all I would have was a bunch of scopes that no one wanted to buy. We had
> them (with the broken/missing knobs in the $15 pile at several hamfests,
> and they went nowhere.
And I imagine you'd already junked a few to use strictly as spare parts to fix
the others?
Rich Grise
> Still using the 275Mhz hp1726A that was given to me when I started working
> for HP in '83.
> I keep it covered when not being used, so it still looks like new. Perhaps
> some day it will crap out, and I'll try a Tek!!
>
Every now and then, one lucks out on a HP scope. For the most part, the HP
scopes I've used have been pretty marginal. There was one that was an
absolute nightmare, but that was a special case, because it was military,
and <oh, shit, apologies in advance> it was in a special case. <rimshot>
The knobs all had little waterproof rubber skirts, which had backlash that
makes ordinary backlash look like nothing at all. You had to go _WAY_ past
the setting you wanted, and hope that when the knob sprang back it would
land on the setting. I remarked to a coworker: "It probably wouldn't even
be a good boat anchor, because it would float."
I _did_ once use an HP that was tolerable.
But If I'm the one who signs the check,
my first choice, of course, would be a Tek. :-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise, but drunk
Because an oscilloscope isn't a Wein (Wien?)-bridge oscillator?
Thanks,
Rich
Atsunori Tamagawa
>
>>"The HP 130C was an excellent oscilloscope.
>>It has been stadily downhill from there. "
>>
>>I agree.
>>
>>Why do you think that happened?
>>
>
No, they became short of CRT's because of their success in
network analyzer business, perhaps.
It seems that more people are having trouble with HP scopes
than I thought.
One has to treat scopes gently, just like treating women's body.
Instead of "pushing" buttons, one has to "touch" them.
Atsunori
Tim Williams
news:43BEBFDA...@worldnet.att.net...
> One has to treat scopes gently, just like treating women's body.
> Instead of "pushing" buttons, one has to "touch" them.
Well, no duh...I mean, which of these looks more like a 'scope?
http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/Images/Man-Woman.jpg
Tim
--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
M. J. Powell
<cf-NO-SP...@erols.com> writes
>Dave Edwards wrote:
>> Still using the 275Mhz hp1726A that was given to me when I started
>>working for HP in '83.
>> I keep it covered when not being used, so it still looks like new.
>>Perhaps some day it will crap out, and I'll try a Tek!!
>
>I haven't seen that reliability is a problem with the 1726A. They go and
>go... Drift is a bad problem, the zero goes all over the place, and needs
>constant diddling. It is all but impossible to adjust so that the variable
>volts/division knob doesn't shift the zero (and have it stay adjusted). The
>horizontal time knob is a really bad problem, as I discussed in an earlier
>note. If you haven't taken your scope apart, and oiled that switch's shaft,
>and replaced the grease on the ball detent, I would strongly suggest that you
>do so. When the knob breaks, it is end of game.
May be relevant. When a plastic eyepiece on my father's WW I binoculars
shattered I found a company that made an exact copy from the other
eyepiece which I sent them. This was some twenty five years ago.
I don't know what the plastic was, possibly some form of Bakelite or
Ebonite.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell