OT: This is why there are "denialists"...
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
- though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
Full story:
http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
Cheers!
Rich
Bill Sloman
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
based on stupidity and ignorance.
> Full story:
> http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
More stupidity and ignorance
"assuming carbon dioxide emissions caused by human beings cause global
warming – still more theory than fact"
when the theory behind anthropogenic global warming is better
establised than Newton's theory about universal gravitation (which
Einstein falsified a few years ago) in the sense that it hasn't been
falsified yet (and, no, a couple of years of short term global cooling
doesn't falsify the theory, as opposed to the straw-man versions of
theory which we have seen around here).
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Dimiter Popoff
> .......
> > This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> > climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
> based on stupidity and ignorance.
>
Yup, the true believers will ignore their frozen asses and the
upcoming
ice age. Never mind the weather....
Dimiter
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> global warming
Or, it provides a better solution in the event that we realize the
effects of AGW are different that we think they are now. The marketplace
will determine the best allocation of capital as the cost of mitigating
(or not) greenhouse gas emmissions.
The radical greenies like absolute prohibitions written into law. These
become very difficult to overturn or modify when it is discovered that
their original science was flawed.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This publication is the sole property of monkey #108765
and his typewriter. It does not represent the opinions of any other
primate, either alive or dead, or any descendants thereof.
John Larkin
It's likely that few of the people voting on the bill will have read
much of it. It's possible that *nobody* who votes on the bill will
have read all of it. It's insane, just more pork. Spain has
demonstrated the real value of throwing money at "green" jobs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062403012.html
Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
John
Too_Many_Tools
>
> Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
>
> John
We won...you lost...get over it.
TMT
Bill Sloman
The "science" that predicts an upcoming ice age is more than a little
flakey.
Since the discussion is about the long term prospects for the global
climate, rather than this year's weather, it is entirely appropriate
to ignore to minor perturbations in the current weather - nobody's ass
is freezing yet, and there's not much chance that it will for the next
thousand years or so.
As Bill Ruddiman points out, the next ice age is somewhat overdue
already, but our ancestors have already done enough anthropogenic
global warming to counteract the rather small Milankovitch forcing
that's going on at the moment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8014.html
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
John Larkin
It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
is the teleprompter industry.
John
Michael A. Terrell
yes, but you were playing 'Russian Roulette'.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
a7yvm1...@netzero.com
Jim Thompson
I find that "We won...you lost...get over it" attitude truly
hilarious. The biggest losers in this fiasco will be the very people
who voted for the Obama-nation.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
All Hail King Obama, The Resurrected Messiah :-(
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>>
>>
More like the socialist version of Cheney/Bush.
>>We won...you lost...get over it.
>
> It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
> is the teleprompter industry.
The big losers are, of course, the wage-earners, and those of us who
love and support the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution,
and the Bill of Rights.
Thanks,
Rich
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
>
> The radical greenies like absolute prohibitions written into law. These
> become very difficult to overturn or modify when it is discovered that
> their original science was flawed.
They learned their tactics from the Church of Antismokerism.
Thanks,
Rich
Michael A. Terrell
Jim Thompson wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:52:19 -0700, John Larkin
> <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >>We won...you lost...get over it.
> >>
> >
> >It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
> >is the teleprompter industry.
>
> hilarious. The biggest losers in this fiasco will be the very people
> who voted for the Obama-nation.
That will include 'The Mangy Troll', or as they call him on RCM, The
Mangy Fool. After all, there are never too many tools. Just those who
aren't man enough to use them.
John Larkin
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>On Jun 26, 10:19�am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
><freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
>> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
>> �'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
>> �- though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
>> �warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
>> �minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
>> �buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
>> �sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
>> �global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
>> �tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>>
>> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
>That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
>based on stupidity and ignorance.
The aussies aren't as gullible...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
John
Eeyore
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
> Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
> >
> > "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> > 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> > - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> > warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> > minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> > buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> > sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> > global warming
>
> Or, it provides a better solution in the event that we realize the
> effects of AGW are different that we think they are now. The marketplace
> will determine the best allocation of capital as the cost of mitigating
> (or not) greenhouse gas emmissions.
But the marketplace isn't being allowed to on account of 'subsidies' and
'rebates'.
> The radical greenies like absolute prohibitions written into law. These
> become very difficult to overturn or modify when it is discovered that
> their original science was flawed.
Maybe but we could still flog the current crop of greenies with a lash. It
could become a town / city centre weekly attraction like the stocks of
mediaeval times.
Graham ( once a greenie when it meant something valid and still very pro
energy efficiency )
--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address
Eeyore
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
I LOVE going to pubs and clubs and not having to inhale or get in my eyes
second-hand smoke plus not having to put the clothes in the wash directly
after.
Graham
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> Bill Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Jun 26, 10:19 am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote
> >
> >> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> >> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> >> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> >> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> >> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> >> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> >> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> >> global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> >> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
> >>
> >> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> >> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
> >
> >That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
> >based on stupidity and ignorance.
>
> The aussies aren't as gullible...
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
Thanks for another nail in AGW's coffin, suitably bookmarked. Now it's time to
persuade at least one of major UK parties.
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
Mind you, Spain has some interesting other 'green technology' in its infancy. They're in
the right place to make good use of solar energy
http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/countries/countries-europe.htm
and no I don't mean silly PV panels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Spain#Solar_thermal_power_plants
They will still need to get the cost down, mind but not by nearly as much as PV.
An HV link across the Strait of Gibraltar might bring low cost electricity from N Africa
too and help develop their economies.
Eeyore
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Jun 25, 9:42 pm, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:19:08 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> >
> > >"The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> > > 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> > > - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> > > warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> > > minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> > > buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> > > sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> > > global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> > > tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
> >
> > >This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> > >climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
> >
> > >Full story:
> > >http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
> >
> >
> > It's likely that few of the people voting on the bill will have read
> > much of it. It's possible that *nobody* who votes on the bill will
> > have read all of it. It's insane, just more pork. Spain has
> > demonstrated the real value of throwing money at "green" jobs.
> >
> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR200...
> >
> > Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
>
> We won...you lost...get over it.
And this is exactly what's wrong with the party system, especially where there
are only 2 powerful ones with directly opposing views. It only guarantees
wasting money.
Try this for an alternative idea.
http://www.juryteam.org/
A friend of mine suggested a similar concept some 30 yrs ago and Switzerland for
example has many more decisions made by the public than politicians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy#United_States
Doesn't seem to have done them any harm does it ? Shame the US didn't adopt it
more comprehensively.
http://www.juryteam.org/
Eeyore
Jim Thompson wrote:
> John Larkin <jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> > Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> John Larkin<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:19:08 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> >>>
G W Bush created quite a fiasco ( understatement ) and stayed in power for a 2nd
term..
Eeyore
As originally intended as opposed to amended I presume. Patriot Act anyone
? The very name smacks of State Rule over everything, Stasi style.
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
>
> Meantime, how do you explain the falling temps and sea levels ? Property developers
> are currently actively building shore-front developments in the Maldives for
> example ( snippet I read online a few days back so should be google-able ).
>
Warmingism is a religious clut. There's no room for facts in their dogma.
Thanks,
Rich
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:16:47 -0800, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>> >
>> > The radical greenies like absolute prohibitions written into law. These
>> > become very difficult to overturn or modify when it is discovered that
>> > their original science was flawed.
>>
>> They learned their tactics from the Church of Antismokerism.
>
> I LOVE going to pubs and clubs and not having to inhale or get in my eyes
> second-hand smoke plus not having to put the clothes in the wash directly
> after.
>
Fine. What we need, instead of banning smoking all over the place, is for
joints who want to exclude smokers to go ahead and exclude smokers, and
for joints that accommodate smokers to post a sign at the door:
*****************************************************
** CAUTION!!!! PEOPLE SMOKE IN HERE!!! **
** IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKE, STAY THE FUCK OUT!!! **
*****************************************************
Would that be fair enough?
Thanks,
Rich
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:50:02 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
>>> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>>> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>>
>>That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
>>based on stupidity and ignorance.
Of course they do! That's the nature of the illness! How could I expect
any of their pronouncements to contain any reason?
> The aussies aren't as gullible...
>
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
>
" ... A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at
the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to
rein in carbon."
A breath of fresh air here? An upside to the crash? >:->
Frankly, knowing that this is true gives me a feeling much like what
the Kevin McCarthy character in the original "Invasion of the Body
Snatchers" must have felt in the police station when some cops came
in and started talking about some truck crash with "some kind of seed
pods" strewn about.
Cheers!
Rich
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
>
[graphic]
Not long ago, I saw an article on "edjamacational" TeeVee where they
played the same old greenhouse tape, where the IR gets trapped under
the glass, and it gets hot.
From that, they extrapolate to "global warming". There's one glaring
misunderstanding here:
THE ATMOSPHERE IS NOT A GIANT PANE OF SOLID GLASS!
Ever heard of convection?
And they always ignore clouds.
Feh.
Rich
John Larkin
Yes, the House passed a bill that nobody has read.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24232.html
John
Jim Thompson
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
I didn't catch details... a streaming "headline" at the bottom of the
TV screen... the Acorn investigation has been halted at the behest of
"the powers that be"... the end of the USA as we know it :-(
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Gourmet Puzzles:
What part of the fish are the "sticks"?
Likewise where are the chicken "fingers" located?
krw
wrote:
We're leaving summer right now, too.
krw
Certainly AGW is over. The "climate" bill passed the House today.
Tomorrow Obama bin Biden will claim credit for ending AGW. All done.
krw
Government won, too.
Jim Thompson
I watch my electric bills, just like I watch my car gas mileage, for
any changes that might indicate A/C service needs.
So it jumped out at me... around 15% less kWh this "season".
Don Klipstein
in part:
>Not long ago, I saw an article on "edjamacational" TeeVee where they
>played the same old greenhouse tape, where the IR gets trapped under
>the glass, and it gets hot.
>
>From that, they extrapolate to "global warming". There's one glaring
>misunderstanding here:
>
> THE ATMOSPHERE IS NOT A GIANT PANE OF SOLID GLASS!
>
>Ever heard of convection?
>
>And they always ignore clouds.
They do consider these in models. It's not hard to find mention of
"lapse rate feedback" and "cloud albedo feedback" (or similar phrases).
One example:
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter8.pdf
especially on pages 630 and 631 (pages 42 and 43 of this PDF).
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
krw
<To-Email-Use-Th...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:59:16 -0500, krw <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:24:34 -0700 (PDT), a7yvm1...@netzero.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Jun 25, 9:57 pm, Dimiter Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 26, 4:50 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > .......
>>>> > > This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>>>> > > climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>>>>
>>>> > That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
>>>> > based on stupidity and ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, the true believers will ignore their frozen asses and the
>>>> upcoming
>>>> ice age. Never mind the weather....
>>>>
>>>Which "upcoming" ice age? We're leaving one right now.
>>
>>We're leaving summer right now, too.
>
>I watch my electric bills, just like I watch my car gas mileage, for
>any changes that might indicate A/C service needs.
>
>So it jumped out at me... around 15% less kWh this "season".
SOunds like "Global Warming" has kicked into high gear. Does Slowman
know?
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 25, 9:42 pm, John Larkin
> ><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:19:08 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
>
> >> <freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> >> >"The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> >> > 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> >> > - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> >> > warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> >> > minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> >> > buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> >> > sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> >> > global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> >> > tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> >> >climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> >> >http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
>
> >> >Cheers!
> >> >Rich
>
> >> It's likely that few of the people voting on the bill will have read
> >> much of it. It's possible that *nobody* who votes on the bill will
> >> have read all of it. It's insane, just more pork. Spain has
> >> demonstrated the real value of throwing money at "green" jobs.
>
> >>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR200...
>
> >> Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
>
> >> John
>
> >We won...you lost...get over it.
>
> It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
> is the teleprompter industry.
>
LOL...you need to rewatch some of Bush's old speeches.
You may have to watch several before finding one where he speaks in
complete sentences.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> All Hail King Obama, The Resurrected Messiah :-(
No...the biggest winners are the American people..if he can fix the
Bush disasters.
If not, we all lose...all of us...including you.
Logic would indicate that all of us..including you...should hope that
he is successful.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
LOL...what's up with you Michael..you act like you want to pick a
fight?
Go ahead...make my day and pick one with me.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:52:19 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
>
> > It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
> > is the teleprompter industry.
>
> love and support the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution,
> and the Bill of Rights.
>
> Rich
Where were you when Bush ran up a trillion bill on the national credit
card?
Who did you think was going to pay for that bill...the poor who had no
money or the rich who pay no taxes?
TMT
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> Full story:
> http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
>
> Cheers!
> Rich
I thought your title "OT: This is why there are "denialists"... " was
about the Republican Party.
It is.
TMT
Bill Sloman
You watch TV programs at the level you can follow, and they do have to
skimp on the detail.
> Ever heard of convection?
Yes, and so has every climatologist alive today..
> And they always ignore clouds.
Actually, they don't, but clouds make the explanations a little too
complicated for the idiot channel.
Face it, Rich, there is good science behind anthropogenic global
warming, but you don't know nearly enough to be able to appreciate it.
Be a good little idiot and leave it to the grown-ups, or a least do us
the courtesy of signing you comments on the subject with "Rich, the
fracticious four-year-old".
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:52:19 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> >>On Jun 25, 9:42 pm, John Larkin
>
> >>> Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
>
> More like the socialist version of Cheney/Bush.
>
> >>We won...you lost...get over it.
>
> > It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
> > is the teleprompter industry.
>
> The big losers are, of course, the wage-earners,
They won't lose as much as the wage-payers, who were doing very well
out of the recent bubble-economy, and lost even more when it burst.
Obama's interventions will help them - and much more than they deserve
- but leaving them to their well-earned bankruptcies is incompatible
with keeping the economy more or less ticking over.
>and those of us who
> love and support the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution,
> and the Bill of Rights.
And any number of other crumbling antiques. Even the English, who last
seriously reformed their system of government in the 1850's, were less
exposed to the bursting of the bubble, while the Germans, who had
their constitution reworked from the ground up in 1950, are doing
quite a bit better.
Antiques are nice to look at, but you don't use a horse and buggy to
get to work.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
JosephKK
No where near strongly enough worded. You need to add the threat of
violent enforcement. Also state clearly "Private Property, permission
to occupy or pass controlled by owner."
Raveninghorde
<freed...@example.net> wrote:
>"The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
>This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
>Full story:
> http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
>
>Cheers!
>Rich
The problem is AGW is based on models not data.
Here is another example of modelling:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8122262.stm
The US has 27,000 confirmed or probable cases of flu. So health
officials say it has been at least a million cases based on models.
No need to worry then. The death rate is only 0.013% not the measured
0.5%.
The models are of course right, they come out of a computer. I must
get back to looking for software bugs.
John Larkin
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jun 26, 2:43�pm, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
><freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:52:19 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
>> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>> >>On Jun 25, 9:42�pm, John Larkin
>>
>> >>> Obama and his boys are The Original Amateur Hour. Bungling fools.
>>
>> More like the socialist version of Cheney/Bush.
>>
>> >>We won...you lost...get over it.
>>
>> > It's not over, and it remains to see who lost. The only clear winner
>> > is the teleprompter industry.
>>
>> The big losers are, of course, the wage-earners, and those of us who
>> love and support the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution,
>> and the Bill of Rights.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rich
>
>Where were you when Bush ran up a trillion bill on the national credit
>card?
Multiplying that debt by a factor of 10 or 20 is a better idea? Please
explain.
>
>Who did you think was going to pay for that bill...the poor who had no
>money or the rich who pay no taxes?
A small minority of the US population pays most of the taxes; look it
up. About 40% have zero or negative Federal taxes.
States have shown that taxing the rich makes them move to other
states, taking their businesses and jobs with them. It works on the
international level just as well.
But nobody will actually "pay for that bill." The Feds will print
money and inflate the debt out of existence. That will steal
everybody's savings and dilute their pensions and insurance value.
Buy real estate or design killer products, because those things will
track inflation. But don't die, because the feds will confiscate it
all.
John
John Larkin
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Logic would indicate that all of us..including you...should hope that
>he is successful.
Successful at the things he's trying to do? Put us $15 trillion in
debt? Destroy US industry? Launch a massive Cap+Trade pork boondoggle?
Destroy US investment? Top Jimmy Carter's "Misery Index" record? Spend
tens of trillions on medical "reform" without even addressing the real
cost issues?
What he has done so far is turn Congress loose to do his thinking and
his policy making for him; about all he's done is tell them "go spend
with my blessing."
He's an amateur lawyer and an amateur politician and knows almost
nothing about real life. His talents peak at charisma and reading
teleprompters. He's broken most of his campaign promises already. He's
an idiot; wait and see.
What do you do for a living? I'd like to know what you consider
"logic" to mean.
John
John Larkin
Too many people who vote seem to prefer oratory skills and glamorous
wives to principles. The most charismatic and smoothest talking
Presidents have been the worst. Except for Carter, of course, who was
astoundingly bad at almost everything... and still is.
I'm thinking that history will be a lot kinder to W than to O.
John
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
[snip]
>
> Fine. What we need, instead of banning smoking all over the place, is for
> joints who want to exclude smokers to go ahead and exclude smokers, and
> for joints that accommodate smokers to post a sign at the door:
>
> *****************************************************
> ** CAUTION!!!! PEOPLE SMOKE IN HERE!!! **
> ** IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKE, STAY THE FUCK OUT!!! **
> *****************************************************
>
> Would that be fair enough?
Maybe. But the way the anti smoking laws have been implemented are as a
workplace issue. The state claims to have an interest in the health of the
employees working in a club or bar (through their worker's disability
insurance program). So you could have a room where you could go and smoke.
But no employees could venture in there to serve drinks, food, etc.
--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
>
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
>
>> Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
>> >
>> > "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
>> > 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
>> > - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
>> > warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished
>> > until minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are
>> > still buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest
>> > favors and sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or
>> > nothing to curb global warming
>>
>> Or, it provides a better solution in the event that we realize the
>> effects of AGW are different that we think they are now. The marketplace
>> will determine the best allocation of capital as the cost of mitigating
>> (or not) greenhouse gas emmissions.
>
> But the marketplace isn't being allowed to on account of 'subsidies' and
> 'rebates'.
Granted, such programs can and do distort free markets. But their up side is
that they can be adjusted as more is learned about the true cost of these
gasses.
Science is changing what we know about AGW all the time. Personally, I thing
that there is something to the claims. But I don't think that we are
anywhere near being able quantify its effects. So anything that will make
it easy to go back in later and make adjustments (in either direction) is
better than an absolute regulation.
Bill Sloman
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:50:02 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman
>
>
>
> <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
> >On Jun 26, 10:19 am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
> ><freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> >> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> >> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> >> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> >> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> >> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> >> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> >> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> >> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> >> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> >> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> >based on stupidity and ignorance.
>
Steve Fielding is the sole representative of the "Family First" party
in the Australian Senate.
http://www.stevefielding.com.au/about/
To put ti kindly, he doesn't know much about climate change, but he
does know where he can harvest cheap votes from the gullible ignorant.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
> > >On Jun 26, 10:19 am, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote
>
> > >> "The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> > >> 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> > >> - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> > >> warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> > >> minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> > >> buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> > >> sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> > >> global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> > >> tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> > >> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> > >> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> > >That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
> > >based on stupidity and ignorance.
>
> > The aussies aren't as gullible...
>
>
> Thanks for another nail in AGW's coffin, suitably bookmarked. Now it's time to
> persuade at least one of major UK parties.
Steve Fields opinins on climate change have about as much authority as
yours.
http://www.stevefielding.com.au/about/
As "nails in coffins" go, this one is made of butter.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:44:59 +0100, Eeyore
>
>
>
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@notcoldmail.com> wrote:
>
> >John Larkin wrote:
>
You are thinking that Obama is the same kind of idiot that Dubbya was.
You can hope to see Obama putting on the ecological equivalent of flak
jacket and making some kind of fatuous declaration of victor from the
top of a windmll, but it is unlikely to happen in your lifetime, or at
all.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
<freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:12:37 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:50:02 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman
> >>> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> >>> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> >>That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
> >>based on stupidity and ignorance.
>
> any of their pronouncements to contain any reason?> " ... A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at
> the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to
> rein in carbon."
>
> A breath of fresh air here? An upside to the crash? >:->
>
> Frankly, knowing that this is true gives me a feeling much like what
> the Kevin McCarthy character in the original "Invasion of the Body
> Snatchers" must have felt in the police station when some cops came
> in and started talking about some truck crash with "some kind of seed
> pods" strewn about.
Don't worry Rich - the Australian idiot that John Larkin was quoting
as his authority knows about as much about global warming as you do.
He is the sole representative of the "Family First" party in the
Australian Senate, which is to say he knows how to milk issues that he
can sell to ignorant idiots.
http://www.stevefielding.com.au/about/
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:19:08 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
>
>
>
> <freedom_...@example.net> wrote:
> >"The House of Representatives is preparing to vote Friday on a massive
> > 'cap and trade' bill purportedly designed to address global warming
> > - though they call it 'climate change' now since the globe hasn't
> > warmed in the past few years - that will probably not be finished until
> > minutes before voting begins. The reason is that proponents are still
> > buying votes from moderate Democrats with special-interest favors and
> > sweetheart deals. Not only will this bill do little or nothing to curb
> > global warming - it's all pain and no gain - it has become a Christmas
> > tree for politically connected industries and lobbyists."
>
> >This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
> >climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for awhile...
>
> >Full story:
> >http://headlines.ocregister.com/articles/bill-31608-energy-cap.html
>
> >Cheers!
> >Rich
>
> The problem is AGW is based on models not data.
False - the models are used to make sense of the data. Ravinghorde
hasn't got a clue about the subject, so he feels free to make silly
claims.
> Here is another example of modelling:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8122262.stm
>
> The US has 27,000 confirmed or probable cases of flu. So health
> officials say it has been at least a million cases based on models.
Most people who get mild flu don't bother telling their doctors about
it, so these are never even reported, let alone investigated to the
point where they can be classified as confirmed or probable.
Back in 1956, when my whole school went down with Asian flu, six of
the six pupils were actually tested for the virus and I was the only
one who tested positive out of some hundred people who all got sick at
more or less the same time with more or less the same symptoms. The US
figures represents a 40:1 ratio, which doesn't strike me as
unrealistic.
> No need to worry then. The death rate is only 0.013% not the measured
> 0.5%.
>
> The models are of course right, they come out of a computer. I must
> get back to looking for software bugs.
You might put in some work on your own thinking Your brain seems to
be seriously under-maintained.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
> >Logic would indicate that all of us..including you...should hope that
> >he is successful.
>
> Successful at the things he's trying to do? Put us $15 trillion in
> debt? Destroy US industry?
The banks did that.Obama has just managed the economy to minimise the
consequent damage - the method he has chosen doesn't apeal to rich
Republicans like you and Jim who'd prefer a 1930-style Great
Depression were you could buy up all your competitors for ten cents on
the dollar, but howling and waving your rattles aren't going to
persuade the adults to do it your way.
> Launch a massive Cap+Trade pork boondoggle?
The basic idea is sort of okay. The pork boondoggle aspect has to do
with the foolish way you run your society, where your elected
representatives are more interested in serving their rich constituents
(who pay for their election campaigns) than they are in serving the
less well-off voters they theoretically represent.
> Destroy US investment?
You've got bankers for that, and they did pretty well.
>Top Jimmy Carter's "Misery Index" record?
Your banking sector got there first.
>Spend tens of trillions on medical "reform" without even addressing the real
> cost issues?
Which are?
> What he has done so far is turn Congress loose to do his thinking and
> his policy making for him; about all he's done is tell them "go spend
> with my blessing."
It's called listening to expert advice. Republicans don't do it -
Regan listened to hs wife's astrologer, and Bush listened to Chemney.
> He's an amateur lawyer and an amateur politician and knows almost
> nothing about real life.
So different from George W. Bush Jnr ...
> His talents peak at charisma and reading teleprompters.
That does seems to be want you want in a president.
>He's broken most of his campaign promises already.
Such as?
>He's> an idiot; wait and see.
But not as much of an idiot as hs predecessor.
> What do you do for a living? I'd like to know what you consider
> "logic" to mean.
We know what you do for a living, and we know what you use in place of
logic.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Andrew
>news:f5cd9dd5-74d0-4478-b183->2c1540...@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
>> > >> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>> > >> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for
>> > >> awhile...
>>
>> > >That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
>> > >based on stupidity and ignorance.
>>
>> > The aussies aren't as gullible...
>>
>> >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
>>
>> Thanks for another nail in AGW's coffin, suitably bookmarked. Now it's
>> time to
>> persuade at least one of major UK parties.
>Steve Fields opinins on climate change have about as much authority as
>yours.
>http://www.stevefielding.com.au/about/
Another scientific view on the current events.
...
On May 2, Chile's Chaiten Volcano released a gigantic cloud of emissions
composed of ash, steam, smoke, and various oddball gases whose estimated
amount equals to one trillion cow farts, a UN-sponsored climate change study
revealed. "In just one day, this volcano set the Kyoto Protocol back 15
years, obliterating the otherwise outstanding success of our multi-billion
dollar efforts to curb the release of cow farts into the atmosphere,"
complained Chairman of Intergovernmental Panel on Cow Farts (IPCF) Rajendra
K. Pachauri at an emergency conference at Grand Plaza Hotel in New York
yesterday. "Therefore, we demand that this eruption be considered
unscientific and thus disqualified from inclusion into climate change
models. Need I mention that it wasn't sanctioned by the the United Nations?"
...
--
Andrew
Andrew
>news:f5cd9dd5-74d0-4478-b183->2c1540...@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
>> > >> This is why we "denialists" hate warmingism - oh, wait -
>> > >> climate-change-ism now, since there hasn't been any warming for
>> > >> awhile...
>>
>> > >That, and the fact that the warmingists point out that your denial is
>> > >based on stupidity and ignorance.
>>
>> > The aussies aren't as gullible...
>>
>> >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html
>>
>> Thanks for another nail in AGW's coffin, suitably bookmarked. Now it's
>> time to
>> persuade at least one of major UK parties.
>Steve Fields opinins on climate change have about as much authority as
>yours.
>http://www.stevefielding.com.au/about/
LEt's remember some of the recevnt events
...
Volcano Releases One Trillion Cow Farts Into Atmosphere
On May 2, Chile's Chaiten Volcano released a gigantic cloud of emissions
composed of ash, steam, smoke, and various oddball gases whose estimated
amount equals to one trillion cow farts, a UN-sponsored climate change study
revealed.
"In just one day, this volcano set the Kyoto Protocol back 15
years, obliterating the otherwise outstanding success of our multi-billion
dollar efforts to curb the release of cow farts into the atmosphere,"
complained Chairman of Intergovernmental Panel on Cow Farts (IPCF) Rajendra
K. Pachauri at an emergency conference at Grand Plaza Hotel in New York
yesterday. "Therefore, we demand that this eruption be considered
unscientific and thus disqualified from inclusion into climate change
models. Need I mention that it wasn't sanctioned by the the United Nations?"
...
It should be clear to all Progressive People that Chile needs to purchase
credits under the International Cap and Trade program.
After all it happens on their territory.
--
Andrew
Bill Sloman
Dubbya couldn't do oratory, didn't have a glamorous wife, and his only
principle seemed to be too look after his rich friends. Obama has to
be an improvement.
> The most charismatic and smoothest talking Presidents have been the worst.
Regan was famously fluent. He didn't have an idea of his own, but your
crowd seemed to like him.
>Except for Carter, of course, who was astoundingly bad at almost everything... and still is.
Comapredwith Dubbya?
> I'm thinking that history will be a lot kinder to W than to O.
If Obama screws up badly enough for this foolish wish to come true,
you probably won't survive to gloat.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Too_Many_Tools
Sounds like you have drank the winger koolaid.
Raise taxes on the rich...there is no where for them to hide.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
As I said, as an American citizen (and hopefully taxpayer) you had
better to pray to the God of your choice that he is successful.
His success or failure will determine your future financial success.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
History is showing that Carter was a very good President.
And history will be incredibly brutal with George "The Village Idiot"
Bush Jr.
Historians in the future will still be paying the bill for George
Bush's stupidity.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> >."Bill Sloman" <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote in message
> >news:f5cd9dd5-74d0-4478-b183->2c1540cfb__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z...@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
Are you hinting that we should have thrown all conservatives into the
volcano as sacrifices to the Kyoto Gods?
It would be a great idea but we couldn't find any conservative
virgins.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Reagan was an actor.
He was much less a President than most conservatives realize.
TMT
John Larkin
He will likely do a great deal of damage to this country; I can't say
whether that prospect pleases him or not. My personal financial
success isn't threatened; I can always offshore my manufacturing if
I'm forced to. It's the "working class" that he's the biggest threat
to, people who need jobs and need to spend most of what they make.
What do you do? I've asked before, and you didn't answer.
John
John Larkin
Don't be silly. The rich are clever and mobile and have the best
lawyers money can buy. But a determined enough effort can indeed
destroy everybody's wealth and jobs. Cap and Trade will go a long way
towards destroying what few good manufacturing jobs remain in this
country. And inflation will rob the savings of anybody so dumb as to
keep their assets in US banks... which smart rich people won't do.
Class warfare is like any warfare... it destroys all the players.
What do you do? Do you contribute? You sound like one of those people
who think that the best thing to do is to tax anybody but yourself.
John
John Larkin
Tell that to the East Germans and the Poles and the Czechs.
John
Michael A. Terrell
He trolls a lot of newsgroups.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Too_Many_Tools
If Obama does not succeed, you will suffer...there is no where to
hide.
This is the New Normal.
Apparently you haven't figured that out yet.
I will give you a hint...how are sales doing?
What do I do...I am a businessman.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
You haven't been playing attention...the rich are running out of
options.
Remember the Feds going after off shore accounts?
That is only the start.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
LOL...Michael, as a child did you go around making up lies about the
other children on the playground?
I bet you got beat up a lot for doing it.
Is that what made you the winger you are today?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
As for how successful Obama will or will not be...none of us know yet.
We have yet to reach the bottom of the Bush Depression.
Anyone with any wealth is hoping that Obama will succeed.
Those who have nothing are the ones who wish him to fail.
I would recommend remembering this when you read various posts on
Usenet.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Eastern Europe would have changed without Reagan...they just ran out
of money.
A lesson from history that the United States should consider carefully
these days.
TMT
Raveninghorde
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>On Jun 28, 1:30�am, Raveninghorde <raveninghorde@invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:19:08 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
SNIP
>
>> Here is another example of modelling:
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8122262.stm
>>
>> The US has 27,000 confirmed or probable cases of flu. So health
>> officials say it has been at least a million cases based on models.
>
>Most people who get mild flu don't bother telling their doctors about
>it, so these are never even reported, let alone investigated to the
>point where they can be classified as confirmed or probable.
>
>Back in 1956, when my whole school went down with Asian flu, six of
>the six pupils were actually tested for the virus and I was the only
>one who tested positive out of some hundred people who all got sick at
>more or less the same time with more or less the same symptoms. The US
>figures represents a 40:1 ratio, which doesn't strike me as
>unrealistic.
So you getting ill at school in 1956 means a ratio of 40:1 is
realistic for the US in 2009.
At last we can see the quality of your analytical skills.
John Larkin
Who deregulated the banking and securities industries? Who pushed
Fanny and Freddie to make millions of bad loans? Hint: all this was
done between the two Bush admins.
John
John Larkin
The rich never run out of options. The smart thing to do is to
structure incentives so that the rich are encouraged to use their
assets to help the society in general. The stupid thing is to attack
them out of jealousy.
Which are you, smart or stupid? Do you want to do what feels good, or
do you want to do what helps the most people?
What's your opinion on O's proposal to tax employee health benefits?
Do you want that to "succeed"? Do you know why he wants to do it?
How about eliminating tax deductions for charitable contributions?
Same questions. Please answer.
>
>Remember the Feds going after off shore accounts?
>
You can't go after the "offshore accounts" of Korean ship builders or
Chinese clothing factories, after you have destroyed their US
competitors.
I could easily move my manufacturing to some beautiful island and
export a lot of earnings, perfectly legally. Multinationals can
allocate resources and move jobs wherever they're most efficient. It's
a world economy, and it's easy to chase companies and jobs away.
California is an excellent model for how to do it.
>That is only the start.
What sort of "business" do you do? Does it have anything to do with
electronics?
John
John Larkin
Funny coincidence that the Wall came down after RR demanded that it
come down. Funny coincidence that JFK let it go up.
"John F. Kennedy had acknowledged in a speech on July 25, 1961,[21]
that the United States could hope to defend only West Berliners and
West Germans; to attempt to stand up for East Germans would result
only in an embarrassing downfall. Accordingly, the administration made
polite protests at length via the usual channels, but without fervour,
even though it was a violation of the postwar Potsdam Agreements,
which gave the United Kingdom, France and the United States a say over
the administration of the whole of Berlin. Indeed, a few months after
the barbed wire was erected, the U.S. government informed the Soviet
government that it accepted the Wall as "a fact of international life"
and would not challenge it by force."
Gutless creep.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_wall#Construction_begins.2C_1961
>A lesson from history that the United States should consider carefully
>these days.
Yes. Doormats get trampled.
John
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:02:57 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
John, it happened on Bush Jr.'s watch.
He had EIGHT YEARS to change it...he didn't.
Your grandchildren will still be paying for his excess.
They will likely be pissing on his grave also.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:55:07 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
LOL..the rich will be paying...whose investments do you think took the
largest hit in this Bush Depression?
As to your health benefits being taxed, it long overdue...it's been a
free ride.
As for the red herring you present for the foreign companies, the
United States is still the largest market..and we can choose to use
that to level the playing field...as we should have been.
If you have been paying attention, corporations are scared stiff that
"Buy American" will be put into effect.
It will happen.
The pain you are feeling is the aftermath of being reamed by Bush for
eight years.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:05:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
>
> >A lesson from history that the United States should consider carefully
> >these days.
>
> Yes. Doormats get trampled.
>
> John
The Wall came down because East Germany ran out of money...because the
Soviet Union quit subsidizing it.
It is as simple as that.
If Carter had been President, the same result would have occurred.
TMT
John Larkin
Clinton signed the dereg bill. He's been a longtime fan of bank
deregulation. And Barney Frank and friends set up the real estate
fiasco. It just took a while to mature.
>
>He had EIGHT YEARS to change it...he didn't.
W did warn Congress that there might be trouble ahead.
Look it up.
>
>Your grandchildren will still be paying for his excess.
Obama's excesses? He's increasing the national debt to levels nobody
would have thought possible in the Bush days.
But little of this debt will be "paid back". Most of it will be
inflated away. And that will hurt the working class a lot more than
the rich ("the rich" including most of Congress, of both parties, and
the Obama family itself, and the people who bought him the
Presidency.)
My kids and grandkids are quick and smart, and they will do just fine.
It's the wage-earners and the renters who will be hurt, by losing
their savings and their jobs.
Inflation will probably be good for my business, so I suppose I
*should* be rooting for O's success. But I'm not.
John
John Larkin
Pension funds. 401K plans. College endowments. Homeowners. Businesses
like GE and Textron and a zillion banks who forgot their core
functions and decided to play the market.
And it's actually the Clinton depression. He set it up and it took a
while to play out.
Look it up. Look up "control theory" and "time constant" while you're
at it.
>
>As to your health benefits being taxed, it long overdue...it's been a
>free ride.
>
>As for the red herring you present for the foreign companies, the
>United States is still the largest market..and we can choose to use
>that to level the playing field...as we should have been.
"Market" nowadays increasingly means imports. Imports implies jobs
somewhere else, and huge trade deficits. Well, we will inflate away
most of the money we owe the Chinese, which I suppose is one
consolation.
>If you have been paying attention, corporations are scared stiff that
>"Buy American" will be put into effect.
>
>It will happen.
Not unless we violate a bunch of treaties and are willing to start a
trade war... neither of which nobody actually has the guts or
stupidity to do.
>
>The pain you are feeling is the aftermath of being reamed by Bush for
>eight years.
I'm doing fine and having fun. But I care about people who aren't...
in the long term.
What business are you in? How's it doing?
John
John Larkin
Because *they* ran out of money. Know why?
>
>It is as simple as that.
>
>If Carter had been President, the same result would have occurred.
>
Carter? What a joke. National Malaise. Stagflation. Misery Index. All
great inventions from a peanut farmer/failed "nucular" engineer. Look
up the history of the Iran embassy hostage thing... especially how it
ended.
John
John Larkin
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>On Jun 28, 1:25�am, John Larkin
><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:57:59 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>
>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >Logic would indicate that all of us..including you...should hope that
>> >he is successful.
>>
>> Successful at the things he's trying to do? Put us $15 trillion in
>> debt? Destroy US industry?
>
>The banks did that.Obama has just managed the economy to minimise the
>consequent damage - the method he has chosen doesn't apeal to rich
>Republicans like you and Jim
I'm not a Republican and - please - I have almost nothing in common
with Jim.
>> Launch a massive Cap+Trade pork boondoggle?
>
>The basic idea is sort of okay. The pork boondoggle aspect has to do
>with the foolish way you run your society, where your elected
>representatives are more interested in serving their rich constituents
>(who pay for their election campaigns) than they are in serving the
>less well-off voters they theoretically represent.
C+T is a boondoggle in Europe already. Carbon credits have also become
a very volatile trading market, which makes it hard for businesses to
plan, and makes a lot of money for the speculators.
>We know what you do for a living, and we know what you use in place of
>logic.
I design and sell electronics that works. You do neither. Apply your
massive intellect and do something.
John
Bill Sloman
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:05:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
> >On Jun 27, 9:47 pm, John Larkin
> ><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:55:33 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
> >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >A lesson from history that the United States should consider carefully
> >these days.
>
> Yes. Doormats get trampled.
As tramplngs go, the Berlin Wall didn't leave that many scars on the
NATO allies. Kennedy might have been a light-weight, but his staff
could do the kind of cost-benefit analysis that seems to be beyond
you. For Cuba, where the stakes were a little higher, he looked less
like a doormat
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:55:33 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>
>
>
Regan was there when the evil empire imploded. He may even have made a
minor contributed to its implosion, by being civil to Gorbachov, but
coincidence doesn't imply causation - Regan isn't remotely in the
Roosevelt-Eisenhower class.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Bill Sloman
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:00:48 -0700 (PDT),Bill Sloman
>
Have you got a more recent example? One hopes that it is easier,
quicker and cheaper to detect the swine flu virus in body fluids than
it was in 1956, but I doubt that general practitioners are visiting
every one of their patients who comes down with mild flu, taking
samples and sending them in to get the virus identified.
My example is certainly out of date and for quite the wrong country -
Tasmania had a pretyy good approximation to unversal health care back
then, and was rather more conscious of the risks of infectious disease
epidemics that the US is even now, having then suffered a recent
epidemic of juvenile poliomyelitis, so they probably did at least as
well as the US does now, despite the technology gap.
Would you like to parade your analytical skills by presenting your own
reasoned discussion of why you think a 40:1 ratio is unrealistically
high?
A visceral prejudice against computer models doesn't really cut the
mustard.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:35:20 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
> <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >Where were you when Bush ran up a trillion bill on the national credit
> >card?
>
> Multiplying that debt by a factor of 10 or 20 is a better idea? Please
> explain.
And who exactly is suggesting that. Stated policies, plans etc. Perhaps you
could tell us also how much the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars cost and what they
achieved other than Arab hatred for the USA ?
Graham
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address
Eeyore
John Larkin wrote:
> Class warfare is like any warfare... it destroys all the players.
So kill the rich vs poor class system them.
Graham
--
Too_Many_Tools
Excuse.
And Bush had EIGHT YEARS to change the bill.
He did not.
He enabled the banks by killing any regulation of the banks and Wall
Street.
Your decendents will be burdened with the debt that Bush caused...and
Obama is trying to repay by restarting the economy that Bush killed.
Just because you allowed Bush to do it.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Excuse...excuse...excuse.
Show me the money John.
It has Bush's fingerprints all over it.
Nice try attempting to spin how great it is going for you.
The bottom line is Bush's screwups are and will continue to cost you
money.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
You mean like Iraq?
LOL...then why do historians consider him to be one of the better
Presidents?
Sorry John but your credibility is dropping fast.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:54:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
>
What type of electronics?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
More like the PeeWee Herman class.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
The bills are not in yet...I have seen estimates of over six trillion
dollars.
The Nation will be paying for the sins of George Bush for generations.
TMT
John Larkin
This,
http://www.highlandtechnology.com/index.html
plus some OEM stuff that's not shown, parts of scientific instruments
and electro-optics mostly.
What business are you in?
John
John Larkin
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Excuse.
>
>And Bush had EIGHT YEARS to change the bill.
Congress passes and changes laws. Presidents only sign or veto them.
Clinton promoted and signed the laws that deregulated banking;
Congress never presented a re-regulation bill to W, but he did warn
them to do so. Look it up.
John
John Larkin
By your standards of "whose watch it happened on", it's Obama's
screwups now.
If you really care to examine history and causality, well, that takes
more thinking.
John
John Larkin
You don't know anything about electronics, or history, or economics,
and you substitute party-line prejudices for thinking. It's not
productive to have discussions with people who don't know how to
think.
Credibility in s.e.d.? Show us some electronics you've designed.
John
Michael A. Terrell
John Larkin wrote:
>
> You don't know anything about electronics, or history, or economics,
> and you substitute party-line prejudices for thinking. It's not
> productive to have discussions with people who don't know how to
> think.
>
> Credibility in s.e.d.? Show us some electronics you've designed.
This is the same crap he pulls on news:rec.crafts.metalworking
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
John Larkin
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>John Larkin wrote:
>>
>> You don't know anything about electronics, or history, or economics,
>> and you substitute party-line prejudices for thinking. It's not
>> productive to have discussions with people who don't know how to
>> think.
>>
>> Credibility in s.e.d.? Show us some electronics you've designed.
>
>
> This is the same crap he pulls on news:rec.crafts.metalworking
Does he know anything about metalworking?
John
Jim Thompson
<jjla...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:54:06 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
><bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
>
[snip]
>>Obama has just managed the economy to minimise the
>>consequent damage - the method he has chosen doesn't apeal to rich
>>Republicans like you and Jim
>
>I'm not a Republican and - please - I have almost nothing in common
>with Jim.
>
[snip]
That's for sure. I would _never_ suggest "suicide-bias" for a current
mirror ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
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| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
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