SF Millennium Tower Is Unsalvageable, Will Have To Come Down

[Fred Bloggs]

“There was evidence of a lot of places with water intrusion,” said Williams.

Williams noted some extensive water damage in the garage, but he says the floor of the Millennium Tower’s basement exposed what appeared to be an even bigger problem: It was dipping in the middle, something referred to as dishing.

“The dishing of the floor there, which is the dishing of the mat, 10 foot thick mat, was significant. Clearly it had been distressed,” said Williams.

He predicts the current Perimeter Pile Upgrade may run into serious problems when new piles anchored to bedrock are connected to the building’s weakened foundation.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/10/29/structural-expert-repair-san-francisco-leaning-millennium-tower/

Did those fools really think the crummy 10ft thick foundation was going to hold up the entire building bearing down on its unsupported midspan??? Seems like something that could be calculated quite exactly.

Sounds like more subpar California high school dropouts commanding astronomical salaries based on phony capabilities and career achievements.

They really need to outlaw LinkedIN, the most concentrated directory of bullshit extant!

[bitrex]

The consulting engineering firm is based in NYC, and was also the firm
on another troubled property:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dominick#Construction_and_difficulties>

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:7f7f4008-ebd0-412d...@googlegroups.com:

Number 5 needs to be disassembled. :-)

That would be the most expensive top-down floor by floor demolition
ever undertaken. A historic set of events.

[bitrex]

Though looks like the firm they're scrutinizing is one is Treadwell &
Rollo who worked on the foundation design, slab-on-pile doesn't seem
unusual for the area so where did they fuck up

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:7f7f4008-ebd0-412d...@googlegroups.com:

Barely a dozen years and already failing structurally. Time to run
away! That clock is ticking too fast for me.

[bitrex]

I thought they always drove piles down to bedrock when building on fill
but looks like in this case maybe they didn't? They drove them down to
"dense sand" sounds like it wasn't dense enough perhaps

[Ed Lee]

I heard a bit of reporting that the original design was for more steel than concrete, but somehow changed to more concrete (for cost reason?). The foundation cannot support the weight. They would have to keep the building empty, which is not really a problem. There are plenty of partially empty building in the area anyway.

[John Larkin]

Worse than dropouts: architects.

No loss. The building is really ugly.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in
news:Y_VfJ.7492$hm7....@fx07.iad:

Not as dense as I or it would have held up.

[bitrex]

There was an urban legend among students at UMass (had a friend or two
who went there in the 90s) that the library there wasn't designed to
support the weight of the books, not true but amusing campus-story:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._E._B._Du_Bois_Library#Building_myths>

It did have a settling problem I think which was resolved. Spalling was
also a problem. Nice views from the top as it's one of the tallest
buildings in western MA but UMass has a ton of land and it's IMO an
ugly-ass structure (type that seemed to be in fashion with US
universities at the time), always wondered why they bothered building a
"skyscraper" there.

[Fred Bloggs]

Nope- their experimental pier was about 100 ft shy of bedrock. It was supposed to spread like a "broom" at depth making the sand/ loose fill a sufficient support. Anyone could see that these crummy "brooms" would not settle uniformly, except in a crummy CAD system, and any imbalance would be self-amplifying- mainly because structures tilt.
Absolute stupidity to approve something experimental like this in a project of this size and high density location. Anything that doesn't have a track record of success in a specific region, is experimental there. Just because something worked spectacularly well in Europe or China, doesn't mean it's going to work well in SF.

[bitrex]

Half of downtown Boston is built on shit-fill; John Hancock tower is of
similar height and when they built it they drove the piles down to
bedrock, the problem with that job IIRC was the fill was of such a heavy
sludge-like consistency the coffer dam walls kept caving in on the
construction crews while they were trying to bang the piles in.

[Fred Bloggs]

You know that foundation has to be full of cracks. Concrete doesn't "bow" without cracking. It has to be past being able to support the building safely.

[Fred Bloggs]

New England is a pretty safe bet for really strong foundations because the whole place sits on solid granite.

[bitrex]

It is good for building strong foundations in normal times but the
plates in the East are rigid and transmit seismic energy over a much
larger area...I could buy a condo in a 8 story brick mill building from
1850 or something, there are many available but I pass on that, the ~50
year risk of a magnitude 6+ earthquake affecting the Boston/Providence
metro area is not at all negligible, those suckers are rubble in the
(non-negligible) worst-case scenario.

[Ed Lee]

They also blame the regional transit agency for pumping out ground water nearby, while building the salesforce tower. Yes, the 100 million partially come from local transit agencies. And the local agencies are living on federal life support. So, U.S. tax payers are paying for the mistake.

[Fred Bloggs]

That's the deep pocket the Tower developers will go after to cover their losses. No doubt about it.

[bitrex]

The Feds are very free with money, but they only tend to give it to
people rich enough to make it worth their while to fire up the presses
to print the required quantity out...

[bitrex]

You mean people who don't matter will be paying for it, Elon Musk ain't
paying shit

[Fred Bloggs]

Federal government has to give you permission to sue it, and there's always an inadequate maximum dollar amount allowed.

[Rick C]

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:49:54 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

> On 11/1/2021 1:40 PM, bitrex wrote:
> >
> > The consulting engineering firm is based in NYC, and was also the firm
> > on another troubled property:
> >
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dominick#Construction_and_difficulties>
> Though looks like the firm they're scrutinizing is one is Treadwell &
> Rollo who worked on the foundation design, slab-on-pile doesn't seem
> unusual for the area so where did they fuck up

Didn't someone say the building was initially designed as a lighter steel building and later changed to heavier concrete with no change to the foundation? It may well be T&R was not involved in the "upgrade".

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[bitrex]

On 11/1/2021 2:15 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> “There was evidence of a lot of places with water intrusion,” said Williams.
>>
>> Williams noted some extensive water damage in the garage, but he says the floor of the Millennium Tower’s basement exposed what appeared to be an even bigger problem: It was dipping in the middle, something referred to as dishing.
>>
>> “The dishing of the floor there, which is the dishing of the mat, 10 foot thick mat, was significant. Clearly it had been distressed,” said Williams.
>>
>> He predicts the current Perimeter Pile Upgrade may run into serious problems when new piles anchored to bedrock are connected to the building’s weakened foundation.
>>
>> https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/10/29/structural-expert-repair-san-francisco-leaning-millennium-tower/
>>
>> Did those fools really think the crummy 10ft thick foundation was going to hold up the entire building bearing down on its unsupported midspan??? Seems like something that could be calculated quite exactly.
>>
>> Sounds like more subpar California high school dropouts commanding astronomical salaries based on phony capabilities and career achievements.
>
> Worse than dropouts: architects.
>
> No loss. The building is really ugly.
>

Architects aren't the people who validate foundation designs that's an
engineering firm's job, they're not experts on rock and dirt!

[Ed Lee]

Well, that's the problem. Should have been designed and fixed by engineers.

"The Millennium Tower sits on a 10-foot-thick concrete mat foundation, held in place by 950 reinforced concrete piles driven up to 90 feet deep. Under the retrofit plan, the 52 new piles will extend into bedrock beneath the soils and will be structurally connected to the existing foundation by an extension of the concrete mat. That anchoring connection will transfer a portion of the tower's weight to bedrock."

The fix still does not address the obesity problem. The middle part is overweighted.

[bitrex]

$2 million condos but you can only have balsa wood furniture.

[Fred Bloggs]

Again, there were women involved.
Original Cost to Build to Bedrock for Tower Like Millennium Put at Just $4 Million
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhm1ehmHZlA

The water intrusion means the rebar in their extensively cracked/fractured mat foundation is corroding, if they used metal that is. That's a potentially ticking time bomb leading to catastrophe.

[Fred Bloggs]

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/millennium-tower-secrecy-may-have-paid-off-for-consultants/65247/

[Fred Bloggs]

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 2:15:30 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >“There was evidence of a lot of places with water intrusion,” said Williams.
> >
> >Williams noted some extensive water damage in the garage, but he says the floor of the Millennium Tower’s basement exposed what appeared to be an even bigger problem: It was dipping in the middle, something referred to as dishing.
> >
> > “The dishing of the floor there, which is the dishing of the mat, 10 foot thick mat, was significant. Clearly it had been distressed,” said Williams.
> >
> >He predicts the current Perimeter Pile Upgrade may run into serious problems when new piles anchored to bedrock are connected to the building’s weakened foundation.
> >
> >https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/10/29/structural-expert-repair-san-francisco-leaning-millennium-tower/
> >
> >Did those fools really think the crummy 10ft thick foundation was going to hold up the entire building bearing down on its unsupported midspan??? Seems like something that could be calculated quite exactly.
> >
> >Sounds like more subpar California high school dropouts commanding astronomical salaries based on phony capabilities and career achievements.
> Worse than dropouts: architects.
>
> No loss. The building is really ugly.

This guy isn't a bit bashful about singing praises of himself. UC Berkley.
https://treadwellrollo.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/frank-l-rollo-celebrates-20-years-at-treadwell-rollo/

[jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com]

On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 06:34:05 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs

<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 2:15:30 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
>> <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >“There was evidence of a lot of places with water intrusion,” said Williams.
>> >
>> >Williams noted some extensive water damage in the garage, but he says the floor of the Millennium Tower’s basement exposed what appeared to be an even bigger problem: It was dipping in the middle, something referred to as dishing.
>> >
>> > “The dishing of the floor there, which is the dishing of the mat, 10 foot thick mat, was significant. Clearly it had been distressed,” said Williams.
>> >
>> >He predicts the current Perimeter Pile Upgrade may run into serious problems when new piles anchored to bedrock are connected to the building’s weakened foundation.
>> >
>> >https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/10/29/structural-expert-repair-san-francisco-leaning-millennium-tower/
>> >
>> >Did those fools really think the crummy 10ft thick foundation was going to hold up the entire building bearing down on its unsupported midspan??? Seems like something that could be calculated quite exactly.
>> >
>> >Sounds like more subpar California high school dropouts commanding astronomical salaries based on phony capabilities and career achievements.
>> Worse than dropouts: architects.
>>
>> No loss. The building is really ugly.
>>
>> --
>>
>> If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
>> but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
>> Francis Bacon
>
>Again, there were women involved.

Women are often involved in life. Sad that you don't like them.



--

Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.

[bitrex]

"'Seventy is the new 40,' Frank chuckles."

The boomers made a pact with the devil to be 40 forever, other kinds of
40-year-olds are aware of this.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in
news:pYcgJ.130890$Tr6....@fx47.iad:

I did not think thsat you were a Trumpanzee total retard, but some
of the stupid shit you spout is just as retarded as he and his cult
puts out.

[bitrex]

I say my good man I shall agree to remove myself from your
well-manicured lawn/property but I do demand you cease these scurrilous
accusations at once, or I shall have no choice but to compose a
disparaging rejoinder regarding the provenance of your mother!

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in
news:rkdgJ.13013$QB1....@fx42.iad:

You do not know a goddamned thing about my mother, putz! Just like
you don't know a fucking thing about "boomers".

Your mother made a pact with the devil to infest the world with
puerile shit.

[Fred Bloggs]

That whole crowd looks unisexual to me.

[bud--]

On 11/1/2021 12:04 PM, bitrex wrote:
>
> I thought they always drove piles down to bedrock when building on fill
> but looks like in this case maybe they didn't? They drove them down to
> "dense sand" sounds like it wasn't dense enough perhaps

Friction pilings don't go to bedrock.
<https://civiltoday.com/geotechnical-engineering/foundation-engineering/deep-foundation/257-friction-pile>

[Flyguy]

Hey DecayedBrainMatter, you have a mother? You could have fooled me...

[Flyguy]

From your reference:
"To calculate the capacity of a friction pile one has to multiply the pile surface area to the safe friction force developed per unit area.

The skin friction to be developed at a pile surface should be evaluated sincerely and a reasonable factor of safety should be considered."

"Sincerely" IS NOT an engineering term, at least in my five decades in practice. Maybe it is something that has been introduced by the Woke "engineers"

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 4:01:10 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 9:40:59 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> > bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in news:rkdgJ.13013$QB1....@fx42.iad:
> > > On 11/2/2021 11:53 AM, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> > >> bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote in news:pYcgJ.130890$Tr6....@fx47.iad:
> > >>> On 11/2/2021 9:43 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
> > >>>> On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 2:15:30 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> > >>>>> On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Decadent Linux User Numero Uno, you have a mother? You could have fooled me...

Tom S. is remarkably easy to fool. Even the most implausible Donald Trump lie fools him. You can't get much more gullible than that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Anthony William Sloman]

> "Sincerely" IS NOT an engineering term, at least in my five decades in practice. Maybe it is something that has been introduced by the Woke "engineers".

They might have meant carefully. If Tom S. has spent fifty years practising to become an engineer, he should have noticed that not every engineer is all that good at expressing themselves, but then again Tom S isn't all that good at noticing things he doesn't want to see.

If Tom S had actually mastered engineering, he might have noticed that a frictional force has a static component and component that is proportional to the speed of movement. The piles under a building are never entirely static - ground temperature is always changing, and at different rates at different places - so there is always a little movement going on.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

> SNIPPERMAN, Sydney

Hey SNIPPERMAN, you ARE NOT an engineer and I am. I have NEVER encountered the word "sincerely" as related to engineering practices. Period. For you to say otherwise just indicates the dolt you are.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:b29d417c-ecd7-4437-8a4c-
65b1a8...@googlegroups.com:

> Hey SNIPPERMAN, you ARE NOT an engineer and I am.

No, you are not. You are a TrumpTainted total retard.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:b29d417c-ecd7-4437...@googlegroups.com:

> I have NEVER encountered the word "sincerely" as related to
> engineering practices.

Sincerely, you fucking idiot. As opposed to your "cursory glance"
mentality, you stupid fuck. You know, like the glance you gave Trump's
criminal record when you listened to his lies and insults and believed
them.

Had you sincerely performed your due diligence and vetted the
retarded jackass, America would not be saddled with repairing the
outcome of his inept tenure in office.

That beside the fact that equating you with having a decent grasp of
proper engineering practices simply sounds like a fucking joke. You
know, like the lies Trump tells the world about his schooling.

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 5:27:30 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:16:45 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 4:11:38 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 8:31:24 PM UTC-7, bud-- wrote:
> > > > On 11/1/2021 12:04 PM, bitrex wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought they always drove piles down to bedrock when building on fill
> > > > > but looks like in this case maybe they didn't? They drove them down to
> > > > > "dense sand" sounds like it wasn't dense enough perhaps
> > > > Friction pilings don't go to bedrock.
> > > > <https://civiltoday.com/geotechnical-engineering/foundation-engineering/deep-foundation/257-friction-pile>
> > > From your reference:
> > > "To calculate the capacity of a friction pile one has to multiply the pile surface area to the safe friction force developed per unit area.
> > >
> > > The skin friction to be developed at a pile surface should be evaluated sincerely and a reasonable factor of safety should be considered."
> > >
> > > "Sincerely" IS NOT an engineering term, at least in my five decades in practice. Maybe it is something that has been introduced by the Woke "engineers".
> >
> > They might have meant carefully. If Tom S. has spent fifty years practising to become an engineer, he should have noticed that not every engineer is all that good at expressing themselves, but then again Tom S isn't all that good at noticing things he doesn't want to see.
> >
> > If Tom S had actually mastered engineering, he might have noticed that a frictional force has a static component and component that is proportional to the speed of movement. The piles under a building are never entirely static - ground temperature is always changing, and at different rates at different places - so there is always a little movement going on.
>

> Hey Sloman, you ARE NOT an engineer and I am.

I persuaded the IEEE that I was electronic engineer. My e-mail address makes that perfectly clear. You may like to claim that you were an engineer, as well as a pilot, but - as an anonymous troll - you have no way of proving either claim. The fatuous nonsense you post here makes it fairly clear that you'd be lethal menace in either role

> I have NEVER encountered the word "sincerely" as related to engineering practices. Period. For you to say otherwise just indicates the dolt you are.

It's certainly unusual, but as I pointed out "not every engineer is all that good at expressing themselves". You reading skills aren't impressive - you keep on posting links to "evidence" that doesn't support your point of view, so there must be a lot of engineering literature around that you haven't read carefully - from what you post here that would have to be pretty much all of it.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

[Flyguy]

Hey DecayedBrainMatter, yes I am and can prove in a suitable wager.

[Flyguy]

> SNIPPERMAN, Sydney

Hey SNIPPERMAN, you claim to be a chemist, but who knows. According to you, you ARE NOT trained as an engineer, just a wannabe. If you were you would KNOW that "sincere" IS NOT an engineering term.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fb383574-3535-4635...@googlegroups.com:

Except that as the bet gets made, I'd break your neck like a
toothpick and take all of your money, sell your cards to a street bum
for pennies, and laugh as you lay there, unable to move, but still
alive for a few more moments of terror in realizing you are done.

That is how fair any wager with you needs to be. Hell, Bringing a
samurai and chopping a few parts off and watching you bleed out in
terror would also be enjoyable.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:aa12ecd5-eb04-4f4d...@googlegroups.com:

You are sincerely stupid, so from your definition that precludes
you from using the moniker. Can't have it both ways, you sincerely
stupid fucktard.

[Flyguy]

That from a brain-dead imbecile.

[Flyguy]

On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 8:01:28 PM UTC-8, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:fb383574-3535-4635...@googlegroups.com:
> > On Wednesday, November 10, 2021 at 2:59:28 AM UTC-8,
> > DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> >> Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:b29d417c-ecd7-4437-8a4c- 65b1a8...@googlegroups.com:
> >> > Hey SNIPPERMAN, you ARE NOT an engineer and I am.
> >> No, you are not. You are a TrumpTainted total retard.
> >
> > Hey DecayedBrainMatter, yes I am and can prove in a suitable
> > wager.
> >
> Except that as the bet gets made, I'd break your neck like a
> toothpick and take all of your money, sell your cards to a street bum
> for pennies, and laugh as you lay there, unable to move, but still
> alive for a few more moments of terror in realizing you are done.
>
> That is how fair any wager with you needs to be. Hell, Bringing a
> samurai and chopping a few parts off and watching you bleed out in
> terror would also be enjoyable.

Hey DecayedBrainMatter, you have made these death threats before w/o ANY action, nor are you about to take any - you are ALL TALK and BLUSTER.

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:8a1932d3-905d-4af1...@googlegroups.com:

How many of your designs went up on Space Shuttle missions?

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:24e8465f-43f6-4731...@googlegroups.com:

I have never made any threats, ever in my life. This post you
quoted also was not a threat. Again, you really need a remedial
reading and comprehesnion course.

[David Lesher]

bitrex <us...@example.net> writes:


>I thought they always drove piles down to bedrock when building
>on fill but looks like in this case maybe they didn't? They
>drove them down to "dense sand" sounds like it wasn't dense
>enough perhaps

It worked on the Brooklyn Bridge. Guess that west coast sand
is of lower quality.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast...............wb8foz@panix.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Robert Baer]

David Lesher wrote:
> bitrex <us...@example.net> writes:
>
>
>> I thought they always drove piles down to bedrock when building
>> on fill but looks like in this case maybe they didn't? They
>> drove them down to "dense sand" sounds like it wasn't dense
>> enough perhaps
>
> It worked on the Brooklyn Bridge. Guess that west coast sand
> is of lower quality.
>

Well, there is no "big crack" constantly re-shuffling nearby.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus