"Hollow" screw

[Don Y]

I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
to unusable (nebulous term) levels.

I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined
parts.

But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype.

I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT
a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that
range seems difficult.

I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of
suitable ID/OD.

Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting
the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the
layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle
when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in
metal)

I also thought of physically removing the core material from
a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?).

Any other options?

[Rick C]

What exactly is the thread you need? I don't understand why you think you can't find 1/4 inch threaded pipe. That is what they use in lamps, it is very common. Now if your thread is something very oddball, I expect you can still find it if you look around a bit. Certainly any machine shop can make that for you if they have the die.

Is there some reason why you didn't provide the thread you need? That would seem to define the task more than anything else other than possibly the length. So what thread and what length?

If you can find a brass screw in the thread you need, why do you think you would not be able to find a threaded tube?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-01-26, Jasen Betts <use...@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

> On 2022-01-26, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>

> braze or solder a nut onto a threaded tube.
>
> OTOH parts like this are used in lighting, mechanical, and plumbing
> applications, perhaps you can get what you want off the shelf.
>

also bicycles.


--
Jasen.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-01-26, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.

braze or solder a nut onto a threaded tube.

OTOH parts like this are used in lighting, mechanical, and plumbing
applications, perhaps you can get what you want off the shelf.

--
Jasen.

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 12:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2022-01-26, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>
> braze or solder a nut onto a threaded tube.

It's finding the threaded tube (of the right ID/OD) that is
the challenge.

> OTOH parts like this are used in lighting, mechanical, and plumbing
> applications, perhaps you can get what you want off the shelf.

The first thought was that of lamp rod. But, while claiming to be a
nominal "1/8 inch" diameter, the actual dimensions across the threads
are ~3/8". Far too fat for my needs.

<https://www.amazon.com/Lamp-All-Thread-Pipe-Steel/dp/B008UWATVK>

If you move to nipples (neglecting the fact that pipe threads are tapered
so even a close nipple isn't truly "square"), then you are faced with
a similar problem; nominal pipe (and, thus, nipple) dimensions understate
the actual diameter. E.g., a 1/8" NPS pipe is *over* 3/8" OD (0.405")

If you approach it the other way -- taking a "pipe" and threading it
manually, then the thickness of the material comes into play. E.g.,
a 1/4-20 bolt has a thread depth of ~0.036". So, the pipe wall would
have to exceed this sufficiently (another nebulous term) to retain
its strength. (a man can exert a fair bit of torque on a fastener;
ever notice screwdrivers with twisted blades? Or, small (#0 or #1)
Phillips screwdrivers with missing tips?)

If the pipe wall is too thin, then you are driven to using a finer
thread pitch. And, risking a sloppy fit or damaged threads, in use.
(as well as complicating its manufacture)

[I found some 6mm hard copper pipe but the wall thickness (0.6 - 0.9mm)
leaves me wondering if I can get a coarse enough thread pitch without
turning the pipe into "spiral cut ham"!]

Lamp rod would be fine if the OD was closer to 1/4 - 5/16". Which
would probably also increase the thread pitch as the pipe wall
would undoubtedly get thinner (if not, then the ID suffers).

If I start with something like a 5/16 bolt, I can probably get
enough of an ID with careful machining -- if the material is
*soft* (stainless would likely be problematic and need cutting
oil/coolant). A 1/4-20 bolt is the ideal OD but I don't think
it could be hollowed to yield a sufficiently large ID without
sacrificing the strength of the bolt. The 3/8" lamp rod is just
too fat to justify the ID it affords.

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes:

> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.

Drill a hole to the screw ? If you don't have a lathe, you can do this
with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill
bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with
a smaller one(s).

Brass is easier to work with, but suitable drills work fine with steel,
too.

--
mikko

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote in news:ssqpff$d5v$1@dont-
email.me:

The closest you will likely get is lamp parts. Threaded rod is hard
steel and not easily drilled, though I am sure there are items out
there somewhere. And I am sure that a short length is doable.
Seems like they could take thick wall piping and roll thread it for
this. Anyway I found this...

<https://www.antiquelampsupply.com/lamp-parts/lamp-arms-arm-backs-
husks/18-20-24-all-thread-pipe.html>

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:13d6d973-5f30-4841...@googlegroups.com:

> What exactly is the thread you need? I don't understand why you
> think you can't find 1/4 inch threaded pipe. That is what they
> use in lamps, it is very common.

Nope. Lamps do use threaded pipe, but not that size.

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 1:44 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:
> Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes:
>
>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>
> Drill a hole to the screw ? If you don't have a lathe, you can do this
> with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill
> bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with
> a smaller one(s).

?

Why wouldn't I thread the screw into a tapped block (to support and
reinforce the threads -- as well as act as a heat sink) -- after coating
it with antiseize (as the drill bit's rotation will tend to want
to tighten the screw in the block, possibly making removal more
difficult)?

And, I'd assume move from smaller diameter bits up through larger ones
to minimize the amount of material being removed with each.

This has the added advantage of giving me prototypes with increasing
IDs that I can torque test (i.e., at what point have I removed
TOO MUCH material and lost strength?). Trying to do this with
ever smaller IDs means having to make (and destroy!) multiple screws
to test (until you find one "strong enough").

> Brass is easier to work with, but suitable drills work fine with steel,
> too.

(polished) Brass will "look pretty" -- enough to deflect attention from
the fact that it's not, e.g., stainless. (Plastic/nylon/aluminum would
all look "cheap" -- "presentation" is a big part of the issue!)

Two colleagues (email) have independently pointed out that the threads
are the problem. They are essential to providing "fastening" for a
screw. But, add to the OD by their very nature.

It was suggested to use fasteners with "flexible" threads -- like the
"blind" fasteners used to hold door panels to a car's door frame:

<https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/RNB-45680_OB_xl.jpg>

Here, the fastening mechanism (the "threads" -- though NOT "spiral"!) are
deformed as the fastener is inserted, reducing the actual diameter
of the fastener as it is inserted. But, return to their uncompressed
state once installed. I'll have to buy some to see just how much of
a "diameter savings" this affords.

But, it inspired me to think of yet another option; move the "threads"
(fastening mechanism) to the mating piece where it doesn't impact the
OD of the "fastener"! Spring clips!

<https://www.veckfasteners.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/S32.jpg>

So, the "screw" can just be a "tube-with-a-head". The wall thickness
not having to accommodate the intrusion of any cut threads! The spring
clip can be stationary and the "post" driven into it's embrace.

The (big) downside to this approach is it makes disassembly difficult
(without damaging the item or marring its appearance). OTOH, assembly
is a breeze! :-/

There's got to be something similar that is also disassemble-able...
maybe a *square* (hex?) peg into a 4-pronged (3 or 6?) clip? Insert
with the flats aligned with the clip's prongs, then twist to engage
the vertices on the prongs??

[I gotta call glen or skip...]

[Chris Jones]

On 26/01/2022 19:07, Don Y wrote:
>
> If I start with something like a 5/16 bolt, I can probably get
> enough of an ID with careful machining -- if the material is
> *soft* (stainless would likely be problematic and need cutting
> oil/coolant).

I have drilled holes through stainless steel hex-socket-head cap-screws
(in my case 1.6mm holes through 4mm screws), with no particular
difficulty up to 20mm depth or so.

You should use a lathe, and cutting oil on the drill. Someone with a
lathe could do it for you and it is an easy operation unless you want
the hole to be much more than 10 times as deep as its diameter.

If you are bothered about the remaining wall thickness then you should
look into obtaining bolts with a different thread. If the part you want
to obtain is geometrically impossible, no amount of advice on
manufacturing techniques will help. At least if you drill out a steel or
stainless steel bolt, it will be about as strong as is possible for the
given geometry, and with the right grade of steel bolt there remains the
option of case-hardening and/or heat-treating it if you need a bit more
strength.

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Don Y wrote:
> On 1/26/2022 12:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>> On 2022-01-26, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>>
>> braze or solder a nut onto a threaded tube.
>
> It's finding the threaded tube (of the right ID/OD) that is
> the challenge.
>
>> OTOH parts like this are used in lighting, mechanical, and plumbing
>> applications, perhaps you can get what you want off the shelf.
>
> The first thought was that of lamp rod. But, while claiming to be a
> nominal "1/8 inch" diameter, the actual dimensions across the threads
> are ~3/8". Far too fat for my needs.
>
><https://www.amazon.com/Lamp-All-Thread-Pipe-Steel/dp/B008UWATVK>

Yeah, that's because that "1/8 IP" is an "Iron Pipe" (or I think
nowadays "International Pipe") dimension that defined the nominal inner
diameter, not the outer. Note that a quick google indicates the actual
ID is over a 1/4" on the rod you linked (way to go, 19th century naming
conventions!)

https://www.sizes.com/materials/pipe_Briggs.htm

As far as I am aware, all pipe is still sold based on the (nominal)
inner diameter, not the outer. Least this remnant of "half inch" copper
pipe I have to hand is 0.625 (5/8) OD...



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--
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O|

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/26/2022 12:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-26, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>>>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>>>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>>>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>>>
>>> braze or solder a nut onto a threaded tube.
>>
>> It's finding the threaded tube (of the right ID/OD) that is
>> the challenge.
>>
>>> OTOH parts like this are used in lighting, mechanical, and plumbing
>>> applications, perhaps you can get what you want off the shelf.
>>
>> The first thought was that of lamp rod. But, while claiming to be a
>> nominal "1/8 inch" diameter, the actual dimensions across the threads
>> are ~3/8". Far too fat for my needs.
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Lamp-All-Thread-Pipe-Steel/dp/B008UWATVK>
>
> Yeah, that's because that "1/8 IP" is an "Iron Pipe" (or I think
> nowadays "International Pipe") dimension that defined the nominal inner
> diameter, not the outer. Note that a quick google indicates the actual
> ID is over a 1/4" on the rod you linked (way to go, 19th century naming
> conventions!)

Exactly.

Ever notice how *pots* (as in "flora") are sized? Or, other "dry measures"?

> https://www.sizes.com/materials/pipe_Briggs.htm
>
> As far as I am aware, all pipe is still sold based on the (nominal)
> inner diameter, not the outer. Least this remnant of "half inch" copper
> pipe I have to hand is 0.625 (5/8) OD...

But the outer diameter is the *controlled* dimension! The inner diameter
is a consequence of the pipe schedule. So, all "1/8" pipe has the same OD
(0.405) but differing IDs depending on wall thickness -- 0.035 to 0.095,
in this case... a pretty big range! In my case, I'd prefer the OD to
shrink based on schedule and hold ID constant.

E.g., if the ID was *actually* 0.125 and I could use the thinnest wall
pipe, I'd be in the 0.195 range for OD... Up to 0.315 with the thickest
(which would be a tolerable ~5/16" instead of a fat ~3/8+)

Or, specify the size based on the OD and let the ID vary.

The current scheme is the worst of all worlds...

[legg]

Look at bicycle caliper brake adjustment hardware.

Thread OD typically 0.225in - possibly an M5 or M6 thread.

RL

[legg]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y
<blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

>I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>

Some 'Presta' inner tube stems also finish with hex head on the
molded portion.

.0.230in OD - possibly in plated brass.

RL

[Clive Arthur]

On 26/01/2022 06:24, Don Y wrote:
> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
> drilled longitudinally throughout its length.  The hole as
> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.

<snip>

'Hollow screw' is a good search term.

--
Cheers
Clive

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Don Y wrote:
> On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

>> [...]

>> As far as I am aware, all pipe is still sold based on the (nominal)
>> inner diameter, not the outer. Least this remnant of "half inch" copper
>> pipe I have to hand is 0.625 (5/8) OD...
>
> But the outer diameter is the *controlled* dimension! The inner diameter
> is a consequence of the pipe schedule. So, all "1/8" pipe has the same OD
> (0.405) but differing IDs depending on wall thickness -- 0.035 to 0.095,
> in this case... a pretty big range! In my case, I'd prefer the OD to
> shrink based on schedule and hold ID constant.

Yeah, I'm just good enough with pipes to know "I need $size ID", and not
really follow specifics past price at that point -- at least here, the
thin copper ("Type M"?) is allowed in residential plumbing, so it's
somewhat my go-to for repairs / rework.

Although I do prefer the Type L in the kitchen and bathroom walls
(they're exterior walls, so the thicker pipe makes me feel better, even
if it is daft).


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[Phil Hobbs]

You could always just cut a slot in the screw with a Dremel.

If you need something better than that, you can get "vented screws" from
Mcmaster Carr.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

[Wond]

. You can buy a blister pak of screws made to hang things on drywall;
they're white plastic, about 5/16" diameter, 2"long, flat head, sharp
point,very coarse thread. Maybe you could drill 'em.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 26. januar 2022 kl. 10.48.31 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
> On 1/26/2022 1:44 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:
> > Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes:
> >
> >> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
> >> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
> >> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
> >> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
> >
> > Drill a hole to the screw ? If you don't have a lathe, you can do this
> > with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill
> > bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with
> > a smaller one(s).
> ?
>
> Why wouldn't I thread the screw into a tapped block (to support and
> reinforce the threads -- as well as act as a heat sink) -- after coating
> it with antiseize (as the drill bit's rotation will tend to want
> to tighten the screw in the block, possibly making removal more
> difficult)?

because it is much easier to keep the drill centered by spinning the part
instead of the drill, try it ..

https://youtu.be/v5yx1C-maRo

[Dimiter_Popoff]

How long do you need it to be? If within reason (< say 50mm)
and if you were living in the neighbourhood I could have made it
for you... Well not 1/4", M6 but I suppose you'll live with that.
A 4mm hole would be OK I think. I have some supply of 8mm brass...

[Joe Gwinn]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:24:34 -0700, Don Y

Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here,
versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare.
What metals are allowed or required?

The quickest solution may be to use a metalworking lathe to make the
needed bit. Unless the following works:

.<https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-tubes/hollow-threaded-studs/>

Joe Gwinn

[Martin Rid]

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> Wrote in message:r
> Don Y wrote:> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.> > I realize I will eventually have to contract a casting or machined> parts.> > But, am looking for onesy-twosy quantities to demo a prototype.> > I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that> range seems difficult.> > I thought of manually threading a (soft, brass?) pipe of> suitable ID/OD.> > Also thought of having one *printed* -- but I'm not sure getting> the threads right would be practical (driven by how fine the> layers are?). (I think most *plastics* would be too brittle> when torqued in such an application so I'd have to print in> metal)> > I also thought of physically removing the core material from> a COTS screw (drill/cut -- possible with a brass screw?).> > Any other options?You could always just cut a slot in the screw with a Dremel.If you need something better than that, you can get "vented screws" from Mcmaster Carr.CheersPhil Hobbs-- Dr Philip C D HobbsPrincipal ConsultantElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOpticsOptics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog ElectronicsBriarcliff Manor NY 10510http://electrooptical.nethttp://hobbs-eo.com

+1
Lots of options there...

https://www.mcmaster.com/vented-screws/
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote in news:ssrlsb$4kq$1@dont-
email.me:

'Hollow threaded rod' is what I hunted under.

A thick walled pipe seems to be the right way to go.
Find a machine shop that can roll the threads instead of cutting them.

One could also thread one end and the other end only in the areas
needing threads.

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here,
> versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare.
> What metals are allowed or required?

Yeah, good luck on getting that sort of info. This is sed where people start vague and continue that way.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

onsdag den 26. januar 2022 kl. 21.05.07 UTC+1 skrev gnuarm.del...@gmail.com:
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:15:41 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> > Many. But you need to define what you are trying to accomplish here,
> > versus all the things that didn't work, or useful answers may be rare.
> > What metals are allowed or required?
> Yeah, good luck on getting that sort of info. This is sed where people start vague and continue that way.

seems a recurring pattern with Dons threads, he asks for something and every suggesting gets dismissed
with a wall of text with more and more obscure additional requirements and reasons why it won't work

[DemonicTubes]

Would 1/4-28 (or even M6) tubing nuts work? I use them at work, they are hollow.

Examples:
https://kinesis-usa.com/gripper-fitting-nuts-1-16-od-tubing-1-4-28-flat-bottom-blue-002106.html

https://www.coleparmer.com/p/idex-super-flangeless-nuts-1-4-28-flat-bottom-for-1-32-or-1-16-od-tubing/72807

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 7:47 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> As far as I am aware, all pipe is still sold based on the (nominal)
>>> inner diameter, not the outer. Least this remnant of "half inch" copper
>>> pipe I have to hand is 0.625 (5/8) OD...
>>
>> But the outer diameter is the *controlled* dimension! The inner diameter
>> is a consequence of the pipe schedule. So, all "1/8" pipe has the same OD
>> (0.405) but differing IDs depending on wall thickness -- 0.035 to 0.095,
>> in this case... a pretty big range! In my case, I'd prefer the OD to
>> shrink based on schedule and hold ID constant.
>
> Yeah, I'm just good enough with pipes to know "I need $size ID", and not

And, with pipe, you tend to be wanting to "fit" with existing pipe/fittings
so your choices are inherently constrained.

> really follow specifics past price at that point -- at least here, the
> thin copper ("Type M"?) is allowed in residential plumbing, so it's
> somewhat my go-to for repairs / rework.
>
> Although I do prefer the Type L in the kitchen and bathroom walls
> (they're exterior walls, so the thicker pipe makes me feel better, even
> if it is daft).

We use K & L, here. The hard water "eats" pipe (lots of pinholes).
So, spend the time/money up front instead of having to do it over,
later.

[Don Y]

None of my neighbors have a lathe -- too many "professionals"
who pay folks to do things instead of doing for themselves
(no one works on their own cars, does their own plumbing/electrical,
maintains their own yard, etc. If it snowed, here, they'd hire
folks to clear their driveways!)

I can use a lathe at the local maker house. But, that's half a day
of my time -- long drive into town, getting time on a lathe, checking
work (so I don't have to make a return trip) then back home. And,
covid has frequently shut them down, so...

[Hence the appeal of using a drill press; I can get to one of those in
short order! And, I could *test* (strength) different hole diameters
(wall thicknesses) to see where the integrity of the fastener starts
to suffer, incrementally and interactively. That flexibility isn't
likely available in a COTS solution: "Can I get this with a slightly
larger hole diameter?"]

I chatted with an ME friend, today. His first comment was to ask how
I was going to do this in production -- how much I was willing to pay
(time/labor) for the functionality that this provides.

"Oh."

"A screw is a stupid idea. Too pedestrian! Too many manufacturing
steps -- for the screw itself and your use of it!"

Then, took me back through a discussion we'd had years ago
when I'd shown him some prototypes of hand tools I'd designed
and the resulting *manufactured* products... how my "made in
basement" approaches had been translated into "making hundreds
per hour". (it's been a long time since I've been in a factory!)

Kinda like showing someone "outside the industry" stencil-and-paste
who'd always thought in terms of "soldering irons". It's not
just a matter of time/labor saving but also a different set
of possibilities!

So, I'm revisiting the mechanical design with an eye towards
driving the manufacturing costs to zero (consumer quantities
so I don't have much margin to waste). And, seeing what other
functionality I can add at the same time! :>

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole

> drilled longitudinally throughout its length...

> I thought I could approximate it using a threaded tube (NOT
> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that
> range seems difficult.

If it takes real strength, you'll want to center a mass-produced steel item for end-on facing, spotting, and drilling;
a mill or lathe would be the best tool for that. Machine screws are usually rolled thread nowadays, that's
an operation that isn't compatible with hole-in-the-middle tube. Allthread rod is standard and cheap, allthread tube
is not.

Can you substitute a rivet with a hole in the middle? Those can be formed from tube in a variety of sizes
and materials...

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 6:16 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole drilled
>> longitudinally throughout its length... I thought I could approximate it
>> using a threaded tube (NOT a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded
>> tubing in that range seems difficult.
>
> If it takes real strength, you'll want to center a mass-produced steel item
> for end-on facing, spotting, and drilling; a mill or lathe would be the
> best tool for that. Machine screws are usually rolled thread nowadays,
> that's an operation that isn't compatible with hole-in-the-middle tube.
> Allthread rod is standard and cheap, allthread tube is not.

Screws "invite" twisting. So, in addition to tensile strength, you
have to worry about deformation from twisting.

And, even if you use "security" hardware, the user will sense that
this is the "fastener of interest" for his attentions.

> Can you substitute a rivet with a hole in the middle? Those can be formed
> from tube in a variety of sizes and materials...

Yeah, that was my thought (elsewhere, this thread, in the context of "spring
clips"). The threads increase the diameter just to provide the fastening
ability. If, instead, you can use a smooth outer surface, then you can opt for
a smaller overall diameter *or* a larger internal bore.

Hollow rivets are COTS in a variety of sizes/lengths. And, tend to
*discourage* attempts at disassembly (short of drilling them out...
but, someone undertaking such an action knows that they are destroying
the product, not just "taking it apart -- for later reassembly!")

But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
grab it/bite into it. This then makes disassembly difficult when you
*want* to disassemble the item!

I ran the question by a friend, earlier today. He's promised to drop
some photocopies (of fastener options) in the mail to me (yeah, he's
real "old school"). Meanwhile, he's got me started rethinking all of
those assumptions (why a screw? why round? why a round hole? why
*centered*? why...) esp those that I've self-imposed by trying to DIY
a prototype!

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> On 1/26/2022 6:16 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> >> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole drilled
> >> longitudinally throughout its length...

> > Can you substitute a rivet with a hole in the middle? Those can be formed
> > from tube in a variety of sizes and materials...

> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
> grab it/bite into it. This then makes disassembly difficult when you
> *want* to disassemble the item!

Howabout drive rivets? The drive pin in the head expands the rivet's nether
region, but could also be driven through and leave a hole, or with an overlength pin,
could be driven and retracted... or even drive a hollow pin (perhaps with
a driver that fills the hollow, for strength).

[Don Y]

On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/26/2022 6:16 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole drilled
>>>> longitudinally throughout its length...
>
>>> Can you substitute a rivet with a hole in the middle? Those can be formed
>>> from tube in a variety of sizes and materials...
>
>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
>> grab it/bite into it. This then makes disassembly difficult when you
>> *want* to disassemble the item!
>
> Howabout drive rivets?

"Pop" rivets?

> The drive pin in the head expands the rivet's nether
> region, but could also be driven through and leave a hole, or with an overlength pin,
> could be driven and retracted... or even drive a hollow pin (perhaps with
> a driver that fills the hollow, for strength).

I think the tool is intentionally designed to snap the drive pin off below the
lip of the rivet, regardless of how long the pin *was*. I'm not
sure if interposing a mechanical spacer between the tool and the lip of
the rivet would result in the break point moving to remain close to the tool...
or the rivet's lip!

Driving the broken off part of the pin further in (to clear the hole)
isn't always possible; there's "stuff" on the other side with which it
would interfere.

But, "bare" rivets -- chosen for length and secured "otherwise" may
work.

There are similar shaped COTS pieces that might also show promise

<https://www.placediverter.com/wp-content/uploads/place_diverter_compression_fittings-1a.jpg>
save for length (I'm trying to see how much shorter I can make
these with a packaging rethink)

The key revelation is not to think in terms of "screws" as
that constrains your solution space unnecessarily!

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> > On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:

> >> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
> >> grab it/bite into it.

> > How about drive rivets?
> "Pop" rivets?

No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses
a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer...

<https://www.mcmaster.com/rivets/rivet-type~pin-drive/>

[Don Y]

On 1/27/2022 1:21 AM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>
>>>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
>>>> grab it/bite into it.
>
>>> How about drive rivets?
>> "Pop" rivets?
>
> No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses
> a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer...

But, presumably, the force required wouldn't *require* a hammer
as the pin's motion is deforming the rivet in a manner simmilar to
the "early tugs" on a pop rivet. The final -- higher force -- tug
on the pop rivet is solely to snap the pin; the rivet has already
been deformed (i.e., the pin could be left in place without affecting
the quality of the fastening).

Or, are the rivets made of tougher stuff that requires more force
(e.g., hammer-struck)?

I'm off to hardware store, today, for some spray paint. I will see if
they have anything that I can evaluate.

Thanks!

[Don Y]

Ha! Who'd'a guessed?!

Thankfully, I didn't find this before discovering other options
else I would likely have "settled" for what appears to be a more
expensive option.

But, some of the offerings seem like they'd be handy to have
on-hand just to compare to other approaches. All of the
ebay hits seem 404. But, alibaba shows promise.

Thanks!

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Don Y wrote:

> On 1/27/2022 1:21 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>
>>>>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
>>>>> grab it/bite into it.
>>
>>>> How about drive rivets?
>>> "Pop" rivets?
>>
>> No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses
>> a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer...
>
> But, presumably, the force required wouldn't *require* a hammer

Yes, the "apply percussion" type of rivets require a hammer (and usually
a form tool), and cannot be used in blind holes.

Industrial[1] options are basically an unthreaded bolt which you stick
through your piece. Then back the bolt with an anvil, and form the
other end with a hammer (and likely a form tool).

This is opposite to pop-rivets that we'd pick up from a hardware store
where basically you have a pin with a sleeve around it. As you yank on
the pin, you deform the sleeve.

A simple (if labor intensive) approach for use around the home is tubes
of whatever metal you please (aluminum, brass, copper, steel, whatever),
a good sized bit of square steel, and a ball-peen hammer. (plus
ancillary tools to hold / cut the long tube)

- flare the end of the tube slightly with a few hits from the hammer
(use the peen end ;) )
- cut the tube to sufficient length to fully pass through the parts
to be joined, plus 0.062" to 0.125" (1/16 to 1/8)
- stick tube through hole, with the initially flared end to the back
(or less-accessible side), and hold it tight with your steel block
- flare the front side (again, use the peen end)


[1]Well, at least when "industry" used rivets. These days, welding is
probably their goto. Loads of pictures available on the internet of
steelworkers riveting buildings or ships or trains, etc.

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[Don Y]

On 1/27/2022 4:36 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Don Y wrote:
>> On 1/27/2022 1:21 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
>>>>>> grab it/bite into it.
>>>
>>>>> How about drive rivets?
>>>> "Pop" rivets?
>>>
>>> No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses
>>> a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer...
>>
>> But, presumably, the force required wouldn't *require* a hammer
>
> Yes, the "apply percussion" type of rivets require a hammer (and usually
> a form tool), and cannot be used in blind holes.

The cited rivets appear to be "pop rivets in reverse". I.e., there is
a rod protruding from the *top* (formed) side of the rivet. As this
is pressed into the rivet body, the walls of the rivet are forced outward
in a manner similar (but different) to how the rod being *pulled* from
a pop rivet deforms THOSE walls.

Contrast with a "regular" rivet that requires a swage to form the
yet-unformed end of the rivet.

So, pressing (with sufficient force) on that pin will achieve the
same result as wacking it with a hammer. The question is: how
much force is required (cuz you are indirectly transferring that
force to the item into which the rivet is being installed!)

Drive rivet:
<https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-c7chaa/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/719/1859/drive_rivet__63707.1517517434.jpg?c=2&imbypass=on>
note the "split end", at right, that is inserted into the hole.
The protruding rod remains *inside* the rivet after fastening.

Pop rivet:
<https://parts.pjtrailers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x1200/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/8/180500b.jpg>
note the wide end, at left, that is drawn into the narrow body of the rivet.
The protruding rod is snapped off in the forming of the joint.

Rivet:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet#/media/File:Rivet01.jpg>
note the absence of any "protruding rod/movable member" within the
rivet's body; the end must be peened over to bind.

All of these leave you with an effectively "solid" rivet -- in that
there is no clear path through the rivet's body without some additional
labor step.

[Don Y]

That's an idea! I've not owned a bike in years so can't recall
the details but I do recall their presence by the brake levers
(effectively altering the ratio of inner cable to outer sheath)

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

you can get threaded pop rivets, once you have pulled the stem to set the rivet it doesn't snap, instead it unscrews leaving a threaded hole

[bilou]

+1
It can even be used with hand tools.
With care you can drill a hole almost twice as long as the drill bit.
Try it

[Cydrome Leader]

Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 1/26/2022 1:44 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:

>> Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> I need a screw (a bit over 1/4" thread diameter) with a hole
>>> drilled longitudinally throughout its length. The hole as
>>> large as feasible without significantly reducing the strength
>>> to unusable (nebulous term) levels.
>>

>> Drill a hole to the screw ? If you don't have a lathe, you can do this
>> with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill
>> bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with
>> a smaller one(s).
>
> ?
>

> Why wouldn't I thread the screw into a tapped block (to support and
> reinforce the threads -- as well as act as a heat sink) -- after coating
> it with antiseize (as the drill bit's rotation will tend to want
> to tighten the screw in the block, possibly making removal more
> difficult)?
>

> And, I'd assume move from smaller diameter bits up through larger ones
> to minimize the amount of material being removed with each.
>
> This has the added advantage of giving me prototypes with increasing
> IDs that I can torque test (i.e., at what point have I removed
> TOO MUCH material and lost strength?). Trying to do this with
> ever smaller IDs means having to make (and destroy!) multiple screws
> to test (until you find one "strong enough").
>
>> Brass is easier to work with, but suitable drills work fine with steel,
>> too.

Why are you asking for help doing possibly the most simple task on a lathe, ever
if you have all the expertise?

You make everything overly complex and still end up with dumb solutions. It's
fascinating.

Drilling through the length of a fasterner, isn't hard. Drilling thtough even a
1/4-20 bolt can be done by hand with drill and pliers. It's not an engineering
challenge. I used to drill through 12-24 screws all the time with just a hardware
store drill bit and thread cutting oil.

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

all Dons threads seems to end like that

[Don Y]

Stainless and glass. I'm sure any manufacturing techniques appropriate
to one "fastener" will liely NOT be appropriate to the other! :>

It looks like we'll make a set of different swages for the stainless
(to get the different "profiles" desired) and have them produced to order.
Some form of friction clip along the lines of the one I cited, elsewhere,
to secure them. The profiles should suggest that they aren't intended to
be removed (unlike screws which have visible geometries suggestive of
a tool-to-rotate)

But, that can't stop anyone determined to drill them out, etc. (in which
case, they'll have to deal with the consequences: "No user serviceable parts
inside".

Of course, I suspect folks will be considerably less willing to
try dicking with the glass ones! (how are they going to replace
them when they *do* break them? :> )

Abandoning the screw idea means a single packaging solution can apply
to both types of materials. And, I can hack together a reasonable
approximation of a (steel) prototype with COTS parts.

Talking to a guy, today, about glass fabrication techniques. And,
a tour, next week, of a shop to see things first-hand.

This will be interesting!

[Cydrome Leader]

That's sort of the problem here. He has absolutely no idea what he wants or what
he is even talking about. It's all nonsense try to sound "clever". Any good info
is shot down with a dumb reply and weird drawn-out reason about why solutions
people with real problems use with success are not valid.

Latest bizarre acronym obsession = COTS. What will it be next?

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-01-27, Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 1/27/2022 1:21 AM, whit3rd wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 11:47:20 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 1/26/2022 8:54 PM, whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 7:01:04 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
>>
>>>>> But, if one end of the rivet remains "blind", you need something to
>>>>> grab it/bite into it.
>>
>>>> How about drive rivets?
>>> "Pop" rivets?
>>
>> No, not the apply-tension type, the apply-percussion type, that uses
>> a pin protruding from the head that is struck with a hammer...
>
> But, presumably, the force required wouldn't *require* a hammer
> as the pin's motion is deforming the rivet in a manner simmilar to
> the "early tugs" on a pop rivet. The final -- higher force -- tug
> on the pop rivet is solely to snap the pin; the rivet has already
> been deformed (i.e., the pin could be left in place without affecting
> the quality of the fastening).
>
> Or, are the rivets made of tougher stuff that requires more force
> (e.g., hammer-struck)?
>
> I'm off to hardware store, today, for some spray paint. I will see if
> they have anything that I can evaluate.

some are plastic and need the pin, some are metal and permanently
deform, but probably still need the pin.


--
Jasen.

[legg]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 06:29:31 -0700, Don Y

Tends to be Aluminum in the caliper adjustment, but longer and
brass in the presta valve. Tubes are easier to come by and are
regularly trashed, so maybe easier to get.

RL

[Cydrome Leader]

Blowhard rating : 10+

This guy went from can't drill a hole in a 1/4-20 bolt to custom swages
and glass fabrication tecniques to avoid visible geometries.

Classic. Keep these coming! I want to hear how you attack the unsolved
problem of keeping a stack of papers connected to each other so they don't
get lost, out of order and can be handled as one unit.

[Dan Purgert]

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Cydrome Leader wrote:
> [...]

> Classic. Keep these coming! I want to hear how you attack the unsolved
> problem of keeping a stack of papers connected to each other so they
> don't get lost, out of order and can be handled as one unit.

Obviously a (diagonal) stripe along the edges such that any misalignment
is visible.

Granted, this doesn't solve losing a page, but any other method would
have you losing the entire stack! Obviously it's the superior choice.

(the above to be read with tongue firmly in cheek :) )

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[Don Y]

So, unlike the practice (as a kid) of *patching* a tube for reuse,
they are now considered "disposable"? (or, has some aspect changed
that makes patching impractical)

OK, so my neighbor (semi-professional rider who does these 100-mile
"tours") won't be "put out" by my asking him to save his next flat
for me? (or, canvas his friends for one)

I know he volunteers at a local non-profit that builds bikes for
underprivileged kids. Would those types of builds use tubes with
that valve? Or, would they still be Shrader? (i.e., how likely
would that group be as a source of a "bad tube"?)

Thanks!

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:24:58 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> I need ...a threaded tube (NOT

> a pipe nipple). But, getting premade threaded tubing in that
> range seems difficult.

If you can CAD the shape and pick a material from a list,
there's online shops that'll do the rest for ya.

<https://www.emachineshop.com/start/>

A threaded tube is just chuck a rod, drill on axis,
turn to diameter, thread, and part off, robotic lathes can do it quick and easy.

[legg]

On Fri, 28 Jan 2022 19:43:26 -0700, Don Y

Real bike nuts use some kind of strange tubeless concoction.

Your local bike or sports store will stock tubes with either
presta or schraeder valves. Schraeders aren't any use to you.

If they've got a repair department they'll likely have a handfull
of old tubes in their garbage. New tubes can be had for <$5.

I carry patched spares in my bike tool kit, because repairs on
the road are quicker that way, and patching works better in
a dry, well-lit and heated environment.

RL

[Don Y]

I'd rather find a "waste" tube that I can cannabilize and replace it
with a new tube -- than buy a new tube just to cut it up! That's
why the question re: the sorts of tubes the charity would likely
be using (needing).

> I carry patched spares in my bike tool kit, because repairs on
> the road are quicker that way, and patching works better in
> a dry, well-lit and heated environment.

No doubt! Not to mention the lack of urgency that it affords.

I don't think I ever was far enough from "home", with a flat, that it
was an issue. But, my longest rides were ~50 mi (25 out and 25 back)
and, in a pinch, I could always phone for a lift home (as a teenager).

Folks routinely ride up/down the mountain, here ("training") and I
pity them if they had an incident; there's NOTHING along the way
and you're dealing with 55MPH traffic at the same time with hardly
a shoulder to rely on (one side is rock face, the other is cliff)

It seems like bike riding was less risky when I was younger...

[Don Y]

The "free/exposed end" will require more treatment. (there are several
different "profiles" required -- but, these only affect the exposed
portion of the fastener)

My current plan is to accumulate COTS samples of parts and evaluate them
as to strength, deformation, etc. (it's one thing to have a number that
alleges to represent the torque limits of a design -- another thing to
actually subject that to the torque from your hand/tool/etc. and observe
the results). From that, settle on a wall thickness and fine-tune the
profiles (e.g., to make them "less encouraging" to folks who may be tempted
to "unfasten" them)

[BTW, the "drive rivets" that I found at the local hardware require far
too much force to deform. That force would be carried through to the
rest of the unit. A *pop* rivet localizes the force between the
rivet and the tool so there is no risk of damage to the rest of the
device as the rivet is deformed.]

Then, research manufacturing tolerances for the different materials/markets
involved and try to find a "common denominator" that allows one set of
drawings to address the different designs.

[legg]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 00:08:54 -0700, Don Y
<blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

It probably seems that way when you're younger and are unaware
of the hazards, but higher density traffic does require common
sense and defensive driving/riding techniques. Oldsters don't
ride bikes the same way that youngsters do.

I ride for transportation, so a 10 minute delay for a tube changeout
has to be budgeted in a sensibly less-than-45-minute commute
(this being a consideration before negotiating a job or accomodation).
We get snow here, so there are days when the weather sensibly calls
for shanks mare or public transit (where available). You should know
that the road surface is stable along your route - makes lane sharing
with 6 ton behemoths more practical.

I maintain two bikes - one with 32C Schraeder-valve tires that never
go flat and a fancier spare with 24C presta-valve tires that go flat
if you look at them the wrong way.

If you don't remove a holed tube quickly, it can be rendered
unpatchable - a practice that produces a lot of trashed tubes.
Bike repair guys also will replace rather than repair a leaking
tube - its an FRU that's cheaper to replace than to troubleshoot,
as with a lot of things these days.

RL

[Don Y]

On 1/30/2022 9:44 AM, legg wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2022 00:08:54 -0700, Don Y

>> I don't think I ever was far enough from "home", with a flat, that it
>> was an issue. But, my longest rides were ~50 mi (25 out and 25 back)
>> and, in a pinch, I could always phone for a lift home (as a teenager).
>>
>> Folks routinely ride up/down the mountain, here ("training") and I
>> pity them if they had an incident; there's NOTHING along the way
>> and you're dealing with 55MPH traffic at the same time with hardly
>> a shoulder to rely on (one side is rock face, the other is cliff)
>>
>> It seems like bike riding was less risky when I was younger...
>
> It probably seems that way when you're younger and are unaware
> of the hazards, but higher density traffic does require common
> sense and defensive driving/riding techniques. Oldsters don't
> ride bikes the same way that youngsters do.

Most (all?) of my bike-riding happened before I went off to
school as I wasn't old enough to drive. Yet, still needed
to get myself to the various "gifted student" programs in
which I was enrolled (hence the 25 miles each way) on weekends
and summer days -- both times when my folks were unavailable to
schlep me around!

Back then, a "highway" was two lanes (one each direction) with
a generous shoulder. And, traffic volume was lighter.

And, I could exploit back roads to avoid the majority of traffic
(save for a few stretches) or exploit the topography.

Here, OTOH, the road onto which my subdivision empties is 6 lanes
and has a posted speed limit of 45MPH -- which means 55MPH is the
nominal rate of travel (for motor vehicles).

[The speed limit in town is 45 for most roads; 25 in "neighborhoods"]

On a two-lane road, you can sit on the right shoulder and still
manage to make a left across traffic.

On a 6-lane road -- with two more lanes for turns -- you really
have to be in the left lane in order to turn left. And, once
you've navigated the turn, you now find yourself in the left lane
trying to get back over to the right shoulder! :<

[We have a fair number of bicyclists, pedestrians, etc. involved
in accidents because of the mismatch between motor vehicle operators
and these "burdened" forms of travel]

> I ride for transportation, so a 10 minute delay for a tube changeout
> has to be budgeted in a sensibly less-than-45-minute commute
> (this being a consideration before negotiating a job or accomodation).

As was the case for me. But, I was going to *class* so there's not
as much downside to being delayed as there would be with an
employer.

> We get snow here, so there are days when the weather sensibly calls
> for shanks mare or public transit (where available). You should know
> that the road surface is stable along your route - makes lane sharing
> with 6 ton behemoths more practical.

I recall my first discovery of the value of "fenders" the first time
traveling in inclement weather. Moral of story: wear a light jacket
if only to protect the back of your shirt! :<

> I maintain two bikes - one with 32C Schraeder-valve tires that never
> go flat and a fancier spare with 24C presta-valve tires that go flat
> if you look at them the wrong way.

I will keep that in mind if I ever opt to purchase a bike. Though
I imagine my riding days are behind me (I walk to places that most
folks would ride for the value of the exercise -- most trips, here,
are < 4mi each way: library, post office, grocers, etc.)

> If you don't remove a holed tube quickly, it can be rendered
> unpatchable - a practice that produces a lot of trashed tubes.
> Bike repair guys also will replace rather than repair a leaking
> tube - its an FRU that's cheaper to replace than to troubleshoot,
> as with a lot of things these days.

That was what I had suspected. As a kid, buying a replacement
was unheard of -- you fixed what you had! And, as it was impractical
to ride on a flat, you "hoofed it" when the tire gave up the ghost.

[Mikko OH2HVJ]

Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> writes:
> On 1/26/2022 1:44 AM, Mikko OH2HVJ wrote:
>> with a drill press by fixing the screw to the chuck and having the drill
>> bit stationary. Drill a starting hole with larger drill and through with
>> a smaller one(s).

> Why wouldn't I thread the screw into a tapped block (to support and
> reinforce the threads -- as well as act as a heat sink) -- after coating
> it with antiseize (as the drill bit's rotation will tend to want
> to tighten the screw in the block, possibly making removal more
> difficult)?

Centering is way easier that way. If you want to have any larger hole,
you'll damage the threads with non-centered hole.

> And, I'd assume move from smaller diameter bits up through larger ones
> to minimize the amount of material being removed with each.

Nope, make a small starting indent first with an oversize drill. A
center drill would be the correct tool, but I assumed you would not have
that (nor lathe).

--
mikko