Ultrasonic cleaning for pipes?
Richard Rasker
I just dealt with a clogged drain (washing machine sludge + fatty deposits)
by messing around with an auger for half an hour -- I had the devil of a
time getting the thing past some rather sharp bends. And cleaning up
afterwards also took half an hour.
This made me wonder if there is a way to do this with an ultrasonic device.
I have an ultrasonic cleaning tank, and that works pretty well with all
sorts of caked dirt and grease, similar to what blocked the drains.
I'm thinking of a sort of high-power ultrasonic probe which more or less
dissolves the mess when it gets near the blockade; even handier would be a
type of ultrasonic transducer which could simply be firmly clamped on to a
pipe from the outside. The pipe of course would need to be filled with
water for this to work -- but having a pipe filled with water is exactly
the problem with a blocked drain ;-)
Are things like this available? And if not, would the principle work? And
would any risk be involved with high-power ultrasonic vibrations in a
less-controlled environment than a special ultrasonic tank?
Any ideas are appreciated.
Richard Rasker
--
http://www.linetec.nl
mpm
Boiling HOT water.
Note: I am not a plumber, but that sure worked well on a stubborn tub
clog a few years back (after everything else failed).
Takes a while... And several attempts.
Frank Buss
> Are things like this available? And if not, would the principle work? And
> would any risk be involved with high-power ultrasonic vibrations in a
> less-controlled environment than a special ultrasonic tank?
My dentist used an ultrasonic device for cleaning a tooth before the
root canal therapy. You'll hear some high pitched scratching sound when
the device touches the tooth, but I'm still alive. But maybe a high
power ultrasonic generator for cleaning pipes will be more dangerous.
--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
piano and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
Rich Grise
I wouldn't recommend hot water; that just melts the greasy crap enough to
move it down the pipe far enough to cool and congeal again, even farther
out of the reach of the dreaded snake.
Good Luck!
Rich
Don Klipstein
As soon as you get things flowing at all, even if slowly, then:
Should the clog be a biological grease or a combo of biological grease
and hair, use strong KOH or NaOH. This means "Drano" or "Liquid Plumber"
or lye or the like.
Please heed the cautions on the containers of these strong chemicals.
One thing to beware of is heating, especially if you use a solid form of
strong chemical such as lye or "crystal Drano". Water with solid KOH or
NaOH added to it can experience boiling, which can splash out harsh
chemical in bad ways such as into your eyes. Even liquid strong alkali
products are not perfectly safe from splashing due to heating effects.
--
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Rich Webb
Just a caution: this works for most drains but should NOT be used for
commodes, as there's a good chance of cracking the porcelain bowl or
opening the floor seal.
Had a similar issue last spring, except the blockage was in the combined
drain line for the whole house. Sealing the tub overflow drain and then
going hammer and tongs with one of those "turbo" plungers (looks like a
bicycle pump) from the tub drain was needed to get enough flow to get
the boiling water to the blockage to finish the cleaning. After that,
though, so far it's been clear sailing (so to speak).
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
Jim Thompson
I'm fond of the "balloon" nozzle type. Screw this thingy on the end
of your garden hose. Turn on the water. The "balloon" inflates
tightly again the pipe wall, blocking back-flow and pressurizing the
blockage.
For big drains, like going to the septic tank at my old house, they
had a RF-controlled robot gadget that cleared the drains. (Required
to sell to an FHA buyer of my house.)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Joerg
Same goes for clay sewage pipe, and sometimes one never knows what they
used when building the house because it ain't visible unless you go in
with a camera first.
> Had a similar issue last spring, except the blockage was in the combined
> drain line for the whole house. Sealing the tub overflow drain and then
> going hammer and tongs with one of those "turbo" plungers (looks like a
> bicycle pump) from the tub drain was needed to get enough flow to get
> the boiling water to the blockage to finish the cleaning. After that,
> though, so far it's been clear sailing (so to speak).
>
All this hot water and chemicals stuff can work but relief is often only
temporary, and that's a reason why ultrasound may never really become
popular: Roots that grew in through joint cracks, hard-caked deposits
that even chemical can't thoroughly penetrate, calcified stuff, sticky
things that li'l Joey threw in the toilet and flushed, and so on. That
can require lots of power on the rotating blades.
I remember the last clog where the plumber wheeled in a huge motorized
snake. When he hit the obstruction you could hear the motor work real
hard, and this motor was at least a one-horse deal.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Jim Thompson
wrote:
[snip]
>
>All this hot water and chemicals stuff can work but relief is often only
>temporary, and that's a reason why ultrasound may never really become
>popular: Roots that grew in through joint cracks, hard-caked deposits
>that even chemical can't thoroughly penetrate, calcified stuff, sticky
>things that li'l Joey threw in the toilet and flushed, and so on. That
>can require lots of power on the rotating blades.
>
>I remember the last clog where the plumber wheeled in a huge motorized
>snake. When he hit the obstruction you could hear the motor work real
>hard, and this motor was at least a one-horse deal.
My worst ordeal was when a grandkid flushed a hard rubber ball down a
toilet drain. Stuck in the vertical in the wall.
Fortunately plumber was able to come down from the roof via the vent
pipe, but still took quite awhile :-(
Greegor
at possibly being some form of ultrasonic
vibrator for attachment to sewer pipes.
whit3rd
collapse of the bubbles creates shockwaves that do
a good job of scrubbing at surfaces. But, it won't
dissolve fibers (hair, paper, roots), nor penetrate grease
(it's WATER cavitation, not other liquids).
A snake, and a quick flush with lots of water after the
blockage is pierced, is going to work better than ultrasound.
Richard Rasker
Ah, yes, that's what I meant. But it would appear that there are no actual
devices available at this moment -- none that I can find, at least. And if
any are available, they probably don't do a very good job, otherwise it'd
be standard equipment for any plumber by now.
amdx
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:j1ran694920tg7il1...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 15:29:10 -0800, Joerg <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>>
>>All this hot water and chemicals stuff can work but relief is often only
>>temporary, and that's a reason why ultrasound may never really become
>>popular: Roots that grew in through joint cracks, hard-caked deposits
>>that even chemical can't thoroughly penetrate, calcified stuff, sticky
>>things that li'l Joey threw in the toilet and flushed, and so on. That
>>can require lots of power on the rotating blades.
>>
>>I remember the last clog where the plumber wheeled in a huge motorized
>>snake. When he hit the obstruction you could hear the motor work real
>>hard, and this motor was at least a one-horse deal.
>
> My worst ordeal was when a grandkid flushed a hard rubber ball down a
> toilet drain. Stuck in the vertical in the wall.
>
> Fortunately plumber was able to come down from the roof via the vent
> pipe, but still took quite awhile :-(
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Five or six years after I moved into this house the drains got slow.
I tried the usual chemicals, even tried a small diameter twenty five foot
hand held snake at the far end, through the washer drain. Didn't get
much improvement. It became apparent I'd have to dig around the
drain pipe, cut it and install a clean out, so I could use a real motorized
rental snake. A weekend job I didn't want.
I got a 3ft 1/4" steel rod and poked around in the yard until I located and
marked out the drain line. I got my mind ready to dig a hole big enough
so I could get around the pipe cut it and install the clean out.
I removed 3 shovels of dirt and hit.... I can't believe it, I hit a
cleanout!
Yipee, Yahoo, I didn't know there was one. I broke out the brass cap and
went to rent the auger. All is well. If I had started digging one foot
farther
from the house I would have missed the cleanout.
I have the cleanout marked for the next time.
Mikek
J.A. Legris
I would think a sonic or subsonic device might work even better.
Something like the "snake" they use for vibrating freshly poured
concrete.
--
Joe
Charlie E.
Right after we moved in, my wife was taking a nice, LONG relaxing
shower in our new 3/4 bath when I walked by, and noticed a lot of
water on the floor. At first, I thought she had just left the shower
door open a crack at the back, untill I glanced down and saw all the
water flowing out from UNDER the toilet!
Called the builder, and they agreed that there was a problem... 8-)
They brought out an auger thingy, and went to the drain cap just
outside the bath, and started digging, yes DIGGING! Seems that when
the drains were put in, nobody was smart enough to cap the clean outs
during the rest of the process, and had filled the drains with dirt
and rocks. No hot water would had disturbed those! It took them over
an hour with the auger to finally clear that junk out. They then took
the auger up and down the street to clean out the rest of the dirt
filled drain pipes!
Charlie
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
[snip]
>
> I'm fond of the "balloon" nozzle type. Screw this thingy on the end
> of your garden hose. Turn on the water. The "balloon" inflates
> tightly again the pipe wall, blocking back-flow and pressurizing the
> blockage.
Those work well as long as the clog isn't beyond the vent connection. Or
you'll just have a geyser up on the roof (harmless but ineffective).
Also, beware of hubless cast iron connections. They aren't designed to
withstand supply pressure. If the clog holds against that, you could blow a
clamp or rubber gasket on a sewer line in a really hard to get to place.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions stated herein are the sole property of the author. Standard
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linnix
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:24:40 -0700, Jim Thompson
>
>
>
> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
> >On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:47:05 -0500, Rich Webb
Don't get me started. We had so many problems with our bankrupted
builder, or re-born builder somewhere else.
One of the problem is the upstair bathroom that we use occasionally.
It's fine for me and my wife. But for our son (when he was younger)
shower, water leaks into the ceiling below.
It turns out that the shower base was press-fitted into the pipe, and
the pipe was tilted. For adult, the weight is enough to seal it. So,
not much leaking. For kid, the joint is loose.
We ended up remodeling the bathroom. Redoing the pipe. Repairing the
ceiling.
Jim Thompson
I successfully sued our builder ;-)
He had to fix all the defects _and_ the neighborhood sidewalks, and
had to cough up my legal expenses plus $18K (total, see below).
He was such an obstinate bastard that the judge slapped him down,
called him a liar in court, fined him $5K payable to the court plus
$5K payable to me.
He couldn't dodge me by bankruptcy because my lawyer traced his
funding to his father-in-law, one of the richest builders in Arizona.
linnix
Our HOA forced him in bankruptcy, but he was born again somewhere
else. The problem is that there is no check and balance in the
system. City inspector? What inspector? You mean the guy dinning
with the builder?
Jim Thompson
<m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
My builder tried to get me to agree to the State Registrar of
Contractors Board of Arbitration. You can guess what I told him ;-)
Clifford Heath
Messages like this make me glad I live in a less absolutely-capitalist
society. Here in Australia we have a Housing Guarantee Fund, which is
essentially 7-year building insurance cover which is mandatory for all
works over (IIRC) $5K total value, and applies whether or not the
original builder can be traced or made to fix the work. Like a statutory
warrantee on all building work... it's effective.
Jim Thompson
We have that, too. But it's administered under the rules of the
Registrar of Contractors... any crack in a sidewalk under 3/16" wide
is OK :-(
In our absolute (sort of) capitalist society, I sued his ass and made
him bust up and replace concrete.
The best part was seeing him beg to be able to pay me in installments.
I didn't want to, but my lawyer advised not to rub it in too deeply.
linnix
Yes, we have that too. But no insurance can cover this stupid
plannings/actions. My house sits on top of a previous creek.
Flooding in several houses forced the builder into bankruptcy and the
builder's insurance to dig a 2 million dollars ditch in our backyard.
The insurance policy was max. out. This overshadowed our little
plumbing problems.
Our neighbours still have flooding problems, but we are protected by
the underground ditch. Whom should they go after? The city planning
department for approving the original building plans? The insurance
company for wasting the money building the ditch to redirect the
problem? The engineering company for advising the insurance company?
Or the same engineering company who advised the original builder?
The proper solution should have been tearing down my house to restore
the creek.
Charlie E.
<m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
Out in Borrego, where I almost built, they had a similiar problem.
Homes had been there for decades, no flooding problems, then one year,
there are major flooding problems. Traced the problem to one builder
who had bulit up two lots in what used to be the flood channel,
redirecting all the water into the street where it went it merry way
until the first bend in the road...
His homes had received all necessary instpections and permits, so he
did do a thing. The others started putting in walls in front of their
homes, so the problems would work its way down the street...
Charlie
Kevin McMurtrie
Richard Rasker <spam...@linetec.nl> wrote:
Drain opening bladders do this, but they're more in the 40 to 200 Hz
range. You put it on a hose, snake it down the pipe, then turn the
water on. It expands sideways to form a seal, stretches, then buzzes
violently as it releases water out the front. They work miracles on
roofing and landscaping drains too.
--
I will not see posts from Google or e-mails from Yahoo because I must
filter them as spam
Greegor
prevent calcium/lime buildup which clogs water
heaters and forces them to need replacement?
Jim Thompson
wrote:
I would have thought that Californica would be as exemplary as Arizona
with "flood plain" designations (no building or obstructions allowed).
Plus development of parks that serve as flood drainage during heavy
rain.
When I first moved to Arizona nearly 50 years ago, anyone who had too
many beers could block all east-west routes in Scottsdale. Take a
look at a Scottsdale terrain map sometime.
Now street flooding is the exception... except for two water main
breaks this past week ;-)
Michael A. Terrell
How about flushing them out once a year, or a water softener to
eliminate the calcium before it gets to the water heater?
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
linnix
Web-Site.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:04:21 -0800, Charlie E. <edmond...@ieee.org>
Yes, I don't know how this got passed the thick skulls of city
planners and civil engineers. Our development is under a hill owned
by the city, with a water storage facility on the top. The community
is around 300 homes in 3 rows. The land (or rain water collection
facility) between the tank and our community is around 100 acres. All
these waters are supposed to flow through the two upstream lots and my
lot.
I would have screamed HELL when they approved building on these three
lots 15 years ago. The builders would probably lose a few hundred
thousands dollars in profit. With several inches of water in the
house every rainy season, my previous home owner and HOA sued the
builder. 10 years ago, the builder filed for bankrupcy. His
insurance settled for several million dollars. They could have fixed
the problem for less than one million, by buying out and tearing down
the 3 houses including mine. However, the civil engineer spent 2
millions in digging a ditch across, instead of digging along the
creek (or flood control channel). They did everything possible to
block, divert and hold the water. Essentially, they built a 2 million
dollars underground water storage tank. I would have screamed BLOOD
HELL..
There are ground movements and damages all over the community. Last I
heard, the same civil engineer was paid another 50K to claim that
there are no dangers. CRAZY BLOOD HELL.. We are all waiting for the
next big one (quake). Timing will be critical. If after major rain
storm, ground LIQUIFRACTION is very possible. Damages could be in the
hundred millions.
Our story could be a classic study of WHAT NOT TO BUILD.
Jim Thompson
<m...@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
[snip]
>
>There are ground movements and damages all over the community. Last I
>heard, the same civil engineer was paid another 50K to claim that
>there are no dangers. CRAZY BLOOD HELL.. We are all waiting for the
>next big one (quake). Timing will be critical. If after major rain
>storm, ground LIQUIFRACTION is very possible. Damages could be in the
>hundred millions.
>
>Our story could be a classic study of WHAT NOT TO BUILD.
We had a "liquifaction" event about a mile south of here. A MAJOR
builder built on what turned out to be fill. The soil testing company
had fudged the data. When sued they filed bankruptcy. Back-fired,
the principals were arrested for fraud. In combination, the state and
the builder bought back everything plus provided moving expenses.
As "lawed-up" as Californica is I'm really surprised they don't have
similar consumer protections.
Rich Grise
It wouldn't make any sense, since the crap that clogs
water heaters precipitates loose, and simply piles up
on the bottom or the tank.
Hope This Helps!
Rich
Jon
"Rich Grise" <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:il90gv$fd4$8...@news.eternal-september.org...
I flush the tank about twice a year and check the anode
about once a year still precipitates are found in the pipes.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Charlie E.
<To-Email-Use-Th...@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:04:21 -0800, Charlie E. <edmo...@ieee.org>
>wrote:
>>Out in Borrego, where I almost built, they had a similiar problem.
>>Homes had been there for decades, no flooding problems, then one year,
>>there are major flooding problems. Traced the problem to one builder
>>who had bulit up two lots in what used to be the flood channel,
>>redirecting all the water into the street where it went it merry way
>>until the first bend in the road...
>>
>>His homes had received all necessary instpections and permits, so he
>>did do a thing. The others started putting in walls in front of their
>>homes, so the problems would work its way down the street...
>>
>>Charlie
>
>I would have thought that Californica would be as exemplary as Arizona
>with "flood plain" designations (no building or obstructions allowed).
>
>Plus development of parks that serve as flood drainage during heavy
>rain.
>
>When I first moved to Arizona nearly 50 years ago, anyone who had too
>many beers could block all east-west routes in Scottsdale. Take a
>look at a Scottsdale terrain map sometime.
>
>Now street flooding is the exception... except for two water main
>breaks this past week ;-)
>
> ...Jim Thompson
Well, Borrego is literally out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded on
all four sides by a huge state park. It is hard to get the county
government to even acknowledge its existence, much less actually do
anything for it. The drainage plan for the area has been in
development for something like 20 years, but keeps being put on the
back burner due to lack of interest in the county commission's budget.
A few hundred people out in the sticks don't have much political
clout!
Funny thing is, they have the same problem here in Desert Hot Springs.
Flood control and drainage plans have been on the drawing board for 10
years, with a first draft due next year... for the past five years!
8-) The city can't do theirs until the county finishes, because we
don't know where they will direct the water...
Charlie