Glass fuse with pigtails?

[Don Y]

Hi,

I've got a couple of pieces of rescued kit that need new
fuses. These are PCB mounted but not in typical "holders".
Rather, they just have pigtails attached directly to the
fuse and soldered into the PCB.

In the past, I've had mixed results trying to solder to
fuses. Any tips? Or, a source for similar components?

(too many damn variants of fuses out there!)

[John Fields]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 02:34:25 -0700, Don Y <th...@is.not.me.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I've got a couple of pieces of rescued kit that need new
>fuses. These are PCB mounted but not in typical "holders".
>Rather, they just have pigtails attached directly to the
>fuse and soldered into the PCB.
>
>In the past, I've had mixed results trying to solder to
>fuses. Any tips? Or, a source for similar components?

---
Google "fuse clips".

Out of all the hits there'll surely be something you can
screw/solder/glue onto the PCB so that you can just pop in a
non-pigtail fuse.

John Fields

[Spehro Pefhany]

LOTs of them at Digikey for 35 cents-ish (more for slow-blo). Try
searching for through-hole and glass or cartridge. Both 5x20mm and
1/4" x 1-1/4" types.

Yes, I've soldered wires to regular fuses and it worked for me (the
fuse still conducted afterward). There is soft solder of some type on
the ends.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

[Jeff Liebermann]

I'll assume 3AG size fuses. Regular fast blow fuses solder easily.
However, soldering usually doesn't work with slo-blow fuses, where the
internal spring and series resistor tend to fall apart. I've had
better luck when I immerse the fuse in water, with only one end cap
out of the water, and using low temp (eutectic) solder. I've also
tried wrapping the glass and opposite end cap in aluminum foil to act
as a heat sink, with good success. Fortunately, I don't have to do
this every day.

I've also seen fuses with some manner of metal or plating on the ends
that are impossible to solder. They might be stainless or galvanized.
For those, you can use fuse clips (as John Fields suggested):
<https://www.google.com/search?q=fuse+clip&tbm=isch>

Instead of clips, I sometimes see end contacts made from a wound
spring with a pigtail for soldering into the PCB. Of course, I can't
find any examples online. I've made a substitute from a heavy paper
clip wrapped around a slightly smaller mandrel but usually prefer to
replace the springs with a real PCB fuse holder.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jon Elson]

You best bet is to solder wires to a fuseholder, then install
that on the PCB, then you can plug standard fuses into the
clips.

Jon

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:34:02 -0500, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

If you're blowing soldered-in fuses that often, something else is
wrong.

Usually if the pigtail fuse goes on a switching supply it's one of two
things.. the fuse element was fatigued by years of turn-on surges, or
one of the main switching transistors has gone short, and probably
taken a diode or two out of the bridge with it.

[Phil Hobbs]

Plus it's sort of stupid to monkey with a safety device to save 35
cents. Replace once, then if it blows again, troubleshoot further.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 14:25:54 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<spef...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>If you're blowing soldered-in fuses that often, something else is
>wrong.
>
>Usually if the pigtail fuse goes on a switching supply it's one of two
>things.. the fuse element was fatigued by years of turn-on surges, or
>one of the main switching transistors has gone short, and probably
>taken a diode or two out of the bridge with it.

The repair FAQ says:
<http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/smpsfaq.htm#smpsmcp>
Supply dead, fuse blown - shorted switchmode power transistor
and other semiconductors, open fusable resistors, other bad parts.
Note: actual cause of failure may be power surge/brownout/lightning
strikes, random failure, or primary side electrolytic capacitor(s)
with greatly reduced capacity or entirely open - test them before
powering up the repaired unit.

I see a few blown fuses in PC supplies. It's most often the result of
a bulging low voltage capacitor finally deciding to short. The
switcher should not oscillate with a shorted output, but with a lesser
load, odd things happen. Usually the switcher starts for about a
second, blows the fuse, and then quits. If I replace the fuse with a
much larger value, it follows the same pattern, but without blowing
the fuse. I guess operating with bulging and leaking capacitors isn't
defined in the specs.

Another common blown fuse problem is on overclocked and heavily
modified machines. The owner has the audacity to actually run the
power supply at it's rated power output. For example, a 450 watt
power supply actually running at around 450 watts. 200 watt video
cards are common so this is not science fiction. Most such supplies
will barely produce the rated power for very long and protect
themselves by either a thermal shutdown, or that's lacking, blowing
the fuse.

I'm also seeing blown fuses caused by a mismatch between the inrush
current limiter, and the two big electrolytics in the switchers input
voltage doubler section. Normally, these electrolytics hold their
charger for a long time (as I've demonstrated by zapping myself). If
the power supply is turned on and off suddenly, the caps remain mostly
charged and there's no inrush current. Nearby is the inrush surge
current limiter (PTC thermistor) the is high resistance when cold, low
resistance when hot, and is suppose to cool down very quickly. That
usually works as expected until some moron glues the thermistor to the
side of the ATX case, or adds a bleeder to the to big electrolytics.
That causes the capacitors to discharge BEFORE the thermistor cools
down. When the next power glitch appears, the thermistor is still hot
and low resistance, while the caps are discharged. The inrush current
then blows the fuse. Breaking the RTV glue between the thermistor and
the ATX case is usually sufficient to prevent further blown fuses.

Grumble... First day of my vacation and I have to drag myself to
the office to deal with customer emergency. I should have left town.

[mrob...@att.net]

Don Y <th...@is.not.me.com> wrote:
> I've got a couple of pieces of rescued kit that need new fuses. These
> are PCB mounted but not in typical "holders". Rather, they just have
> pigtails attached directly to the fuse and soldered into the PCB.

If they are 0.25 x 1.25" fuses, and if you have enough room above the
fuse, you can get a holder that clips on top of the blown pigtail fuse
and allows you to install a non-pigtail fuse. TV service shops used to
use them a lot.

Cooper Bussmann part number 3434, or Mouser part number 504-3434. The
$8 Mouser wants is a dumb price; for that much money I'd just install a
regular fuseholder. Maybe you can find them cheaper somewhere.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cooper-Bussmann/3434/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuG%252bgnN5hGYGyH2BQ7DlZAQoVmddGUqdXQ%3d

Matt Roberds

[Don Y]

Hi Spehro,

On 7/28/2014 11:25 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 12:34:02 -0500, Jon Elson<el...@pico-systems.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> I've got a couple of pieces of rescued kit that need new
>>> fuses. These are PCB mounted but not in typical "holders".
>>> Rather, they just have pigtails attached directly to the
>>> fuse and soldered into the PCB.
>>>
>>> In the past, I've had mixed results trying to solder to
>>> fuses. Any tips? Or, a source for similar components?
>>

>> You best bet is to solder wires to a fuseholder, then install
>> that on the PCB, then you can plug standard fuses into the
>> clips.
>

> If you're blowing soldered-in fuses that often, something else is
> wrong.

Exactly. You should only have to replace a fuse *twice* -- the first
time when you realize you OVERLOOKED something; the second time
being the charmer! (while ONCE is prefered, I don't always expect
to catch every problem initially -- especially if there was "collateral
damage")

> Usually if the pigtail fuse goes on a switching supply it's one of two
> things.. the fuse element was fatigued by years of turn-on surges, or
> one of the main switching transistors has gone short, and probably
> taken a diode or two out of the bridge with it.

Exactly. Fuse blown? Look at load. Try *powering* load (from a lab
supply) once you are reasonably sure it "should be OK" -- to verify
this (CL power supply so you can see what the load is *really* doing).

Once you're sure the load had nothing to do with the failure, move
backwards looking for obvious faults. Then, *think* about why they
may have happened -- instead of just blindly repairing them!

I've got to place a Digikey order anyway, so I'll just tack them
onto the order and save myself the hassle/uncertainty.

Thx!

[Don Y]

Hi Matt,

On 7/28/2014 2:38 PM, mrob...@att.net wrote:
> Don Y<th...@is.not.me.com> wrote:
>> I've got a couple of pieces of rescued kit that need new fuses. These
>> are PCB mounted but not in typical "holders". Rather, they just have
>> pigtails attached directly to the fuse and soldered into the PCB.
>
> If they are 0.25 x 1.25" fuses, and if you have enough room above the
> fuse, you can get a holder that clips on top of the blown pigtail fuse
> and allows you to install a non-pigtail fuse. TV service shops used to
> use them a lot.

Clever! I'm not sure it would fit in the space provided -- but, it
would be a nice thing to have in my bag-of-tricks!

Thanks!

[Michael A. Terrell]

GC electronics used to sell adapters to convert standard AGC/3AG
style fuses into pigtail. They were would of copper plated steel. You
pushed them onto the ends, and soldered the pair of wires into the
circuit. I can't access their website right now. My anti virus says
there is a trojan on the main page and blocks access.
www.gcelectronics.com

http://www.sciplus.com/p/PIGTAIL-ADAPTER-SPRINGS-FOR--INCH-FUSES_51254
has some surplus.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

On 7/31/2014 1:19 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> GC electronics used to sell adapters to convert standard AGC/3AG
> style fuses into pigtail. They were would of copper plated steel. You
> pushed them onto the ends, and soldered the pair of wires into the
> circuit.

That's what these LOOK to be. But, my attempts at trying to pry them
off the ends of the fuse have been ineffective -- leading me to suspect
they may be more than just a "friction fit".

[Obviously, I had hoped to just reuse them!]

> I can't access their website right now. My anti virus says
> there is a trojan on the main page and blocks access.
> www.gcelectronics.com

<grin> I will trust your AV! ;-)

[Michael A. Terrell]

Don Y wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> On 7/31/2014 1:19 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > GC electronics used to sell adapters to convert standard AGC/3AG
> > style fuses into pigtail. They were would of copper plated steel. You
> > pushed them onto the ends, and soldered the pair of wires into the
> > circuit.
>
> That's what these LOOK to be. But, my attempts at trying to pry them
> off the ends of the fuse have been ineffective -- leading me to suspect
> they may be more than just a "friction fit".
>
> [Obviously, I had hoped to just reuse them!]

You have to twist the old fuse to loosen the grip. Or GENTLY twist
the spring with small pliers from the end of the winding. Otherwise,
they could vibrate loose.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:19:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I can't access their website right now. My anti virus says
>there is a trojan on the main page and blocks access.
>www.gcelectronics.com

Avast claims it's infected by:
HTML:HideMe-F [Trj]

Google claims it's clean:
<http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=www.gcelectronics.com>

Norton says it's ok:
<http://safeweb.norton.com/report/show?url=www.gcelectronics.com>

AVG says it's ok:
<http://www.avgthreatlabs.com/domain-not-found/domain/www.gcelectronics.com/>

McAfee doesn't have a clue:
<http://www.siteadvisor.com/lookup/?q=www.gcelectronics.com>

More to try:
<http://www.malwarehelp.org/freeware-open-source-commercial-website-security-tools-services-downloads.html>

Probably a false positive for Avast.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:19:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >I can't access their website right now. My anti virus says
> >there is a trojan on the main page and blocks access.
> >www.gcelectronics.com
>
> Avast claims it's infected by:
> HTML:HideMe-F [Trj]
>
> Google claims it's clean:
> <http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=www.gcelectronics.com>
>
> Norton says it's ok:
> <http://safeweb.norton.com/report/show?url=www.gcelectronics.com>
>
> AVG says it's ok:
> <http://www.avgthreatlabs.com/domain-not-found/domain/www.gcelectronics.com/>
>
> McAfee doesn't have a clue:
> <http://www.siteadvisor.com/lookup/?q=www.gcelectronics.com>
>
> More to try:
> <http://www.malwarehelp.org/freeware-open-source-commercial-website-security-tools-services-downloads.html>
>
> Probably a false positive for Avast.

Probably. When I searched for GC electronics with Google, Avast says the
page is OK by displaying their green checkmark.

[Michael A. Terrell]

That is a package of 10 for $7.95.

[mrob...@att.net]

Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> mrob...@att.net wrote:
>> Cooper Bussmann part number 3434, or Mouser part number 504-3434. The
>> $8 Mouser wants is a dumb price; for that much money I'd just install a
>> regular fuseholder.
>>

>> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cooper-Bussmann/3434/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuG%252bgnN5hGYGyH2BQ7DlZAQoVmddGUqdXQ%3d
>
> That is a package of 10 for $7.95.

No, that's an "each" price. Look at the PDF catalog page:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/647/855.pdf

That 10 on the original link is the "factory pack quantity". Mouser
says...

---
Factory Pack Quantity - The package size that is typically shipped from
the factory (Note: manufacturers can change the package size without
notice.)

Ordering in multiples of the "Factory Pack Quantity" is most efficient
for our volume production customers.

In most cases, Mouser will gladly break the "Factory Pack Quantity".
(See Minimum and Multiples to verify ordering requirements)
---

On this part, the minimum and multiple are both 1.

Matt Roberds

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

On 7/31/2014 5:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>>> GC electronics used to sell adapters to convert standard AGC/3AG
>>> style fuses into pigtail. They were would of copper plated steel. You
>>> pushed them onto the ends, and soldered the pair of wires into the
>>> circuit.
>>
>> That's what these LOOK to be. But, my attempts at trying to pry them
>> off the ends of the fuse have been ineffective -- leading me to suspect
>> they may be more than just a "friction fit".
>>
>> [Obviously, I had hoped to just reuse them!]
>
> You have to twist the old fuse to loosen the grip. Or GENTLY twist
> the spring with small pliers from the end of the winding. Otherwise,
> they could vibrate loose.

Ah, makes sense. I will try that at my next opportunity! Always a
bit nervous with a bit of glass in my hands...

Thanks!
--don

[Michael A. Terrell]

You can often remove the metal cap by heating it until the glue
melts, and slip it off the glass.

[mike]

I've had reasonable luck using a CD battery tab welder to
weld tabs onto fuses.
Don't think I'd risk selling anything I fixed that way. ;-)