Non-conductive-removeable-glue ?
Skybuck Flying
I have a question for you:
Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
glue becoming conductive after a while ?
(Some glue's appear to become conductive after exposure to heat, moisture in
air, and electricity (?))
Also it would be a big plus if the glue can be removed with water and soap
or any other means...
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
(Failed, no such newsgroup, so just gonna be a regular follow-up:)
Electrolysis comes to mind...
I learned that once in a chemistry class on school.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/electrolysis
From that dictionary:
"
1. Chemical change, especially decomposition, produced in an electrolyte by
an electric current.
"
The thruth could be that no glue is safe from electrolysis ?
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Skybuck Flying
Electrolyte:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte
Glue:
(Doesn't contain much about non-conductive glue)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive
Maybe glueing electronics together is a bad idea and simply indicates
non-sturdy/bad design (?!)
One more link: printing electronics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_electronics
One possibly solution for the future could be a "double board" where
components are stuck together at the bottom and the top for extra sturdyness
?!?
Ofcourse this would make inspecting any damage impossible until everything
soldered loose... hmmm ;) :)
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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SteveH
>
> I learned that once in a chemistry class on school.
>
There's me thinking you wuz just a pothead.
-
SteveH
GregS
I had to fix one or two Sansui amplifier power boards with that conductive
stuff. I have used typical hot melt without problems, but
usually not on a conductor. I also use silicone rtv on most things.
Anything removed with soap and water seems like it would collect
moisture anyway.
greg
Dangerous Bill
> Going to try and forward this to chemistry newsgroup.
> (Failed, no such newsgroup, so just gonna be a regular follow-up:)
Try sci.chem (which seems to be on an anti-semitic binge right now,
but there are real chemists there).
The answer you seek is that some glues interact with electronics. The
acid in silicone, especially, will dissolve traces on circuit boards.
Other than that, it works fine, especially if you apply it in an area
without traces. Don't trust a solder mask; some are porous.
Most other glues are nonconductive, too, such as epoxies. You can make
them conductive with metal particles, but the native glue is
conductive.
Dangerous Bill
Dangerous Bill
> I had to fix one or two Sansui amplifier power boards with that conductive
> stuff. I have used typical hot melt without problems, but
> usually not on a conductor. I also use silicone rtv on most things.
> Anything removed with soap and water seems like it would collect
> moisture anyway.
I forgot about hot melt. It's the only glue that works reliably with
Teflon, too.
Dangerous Bill
Skybuck Flying
"GregS" <zekf...@zekfrivolous.com> wrote in message
news:guse5t$8qt$1...@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu...
Hmm that's interesting.
This could be the reason why the repairman said that nothing could be done
about the "glue". (He hadn't seen it though... just over the phone...)
So the theory could be:
Trying to remove the glue from electronics components with water and soap
could then lead to damage to the components because of the water and the
soap (possibly on the long run) ?
Bye,
Skybuck.
whit3rd
> Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
> glue becoming conductive after a while ?
Yes, several. The usual route, though, is to let the factory epoxy
all the
wires to a chip, and folk in the field connect the wires (using
conductive
glue, i.e. solder). So, the conductive glues are more important for
the end users.
John Larkin
Water soluble = conductive.
John
Jamie
Michael A. Terrell
Jamie wrote:
>
> Well, that was your first mistake!
> Thinking!
There you go, damning something you've never tried.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Michael A. Terrell
If you insist on RTV, make sure its the electronics grade.
VanguardLH
Hot-melt glue & gun.
Not water soluable (since that would also mean it absorbs water).
Not super strong but you left out that criteria. If you want a
permanent bond, use epoxy; however, you alluded to removal so the bond
cannot be super strong. Hot-glued parts can usually be pried apart
although usually the surface of one or both might get damaged, like
peeling off the label or outerwrap.
To remove, pry the part apart. For what sticks behind, you can pry,
scrape, or use a pliers to pull the remnants off (provided the surfaces
were smooth since erose surfaces will have the glue embedded in them).
I've seen this stuff use for affixing capacitors, wires, resistors
(under 2W so they don't reheat the glue and melt it), speaker cases,
etc. Not useful for really heavy stuff, like a large isolating
transformer, but you didn't mention weight contraints.
Dave
"Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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The industrial adhesive-turned craft glue E-6000 is totally nonconductive,
and can be removed by prying/pulling at the material after it dries. I love
it for this reason. If it is put on in one glop, it comes off the same way.
For electronic components, I expect you would need to work at it some, and
it wouldn't be easy to remove. Takes 24 hours to cure though... Best I can
offer. Get it at the local electronics supply store, or even most WalMart
stores.
Dave
Tim Shoppa
Glues that dissolve in water will also generally absorb water, even
just the humidity in the air.
Water with stuff dissolved in it is in general no longer an insulator.
For lots of not-very-hot hobbyist purposes, hot melt glue is pretty
good. Wax is also a long standing mostly removable material. Both have
had application in "professional" electronics in the past.
Tim.
Jon Danniken
> Hello,
>
> I have a question for you:
>
> Is there a glue that can be used to glue together electronics without the
> glue becoming conductive after a while ?
Silicone.
Jon
Skybuck Flying
"Jon Danniken" <jondanS...@yaSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
news:77ftirF...@mid.individual.net...
There seem to be conductive and non-conductive silicone...
Bye,
Skybuck.
Sjouke Burry
sufficient quality.
I would leave it alone for a day or three, before applying
power.
nobody >
Amen to that brudda!
E6000 is fantastic stuff. It's RTV on steroids.
The name E6000 comes from it's electrical resistance/breakdown voltage.
It's 6000 volts per milli-inch.
It doesn't outgas acetic acid while drying like RTV, so there's no
corrosion issues down the road.
I've mounted two-way radios to truck cab roofs with it that are still in
service after 10+ years, and those are off-roading dump trucks. (I'll
have to admit that the 24 hour drying time is a pain, I had to prop the
radios in place with a telescoping pole overnight.)
I've glued telephone wall plates with thin boxes onto beams and ribs in
steel buildings and hung wall phones on them. If you've ever tried
drilling holes in those beams, you'll know why I even tried this.
I know an electrician who mounted a 36 circuit count 400 amp
main-breakered breaker box on a tiled wall with E6000 to avoid cracking
the tile.
It's actually an industrial version of Shoe Goo, and the parent compamy
is "Goop". It was originally designed for gluing glass or rock (like
marble) veneers to concrete walls. The reason? the glass or veneer has
different temperature expansion rates than concrete, so the adhesive has
to give a fair amount to compensate for that.
I've used it as potting compound. I've used it to make connector bodies
when replacements weren't readily available.
A variant is sold under the name of Plumber's Putty. Smear it on the
threads and mating surfaces of thinks like sink traps or hookups to
garbage disposals. I used E6000 for this before the PP came on the
market. You can still get the joint apart, it just takes more force.
nobody >
Not silicone! (AKA RTV)
The stuff exudes/outgasses acetic acid as it dries, which corrodes
metals. The corrosion "grows" and puts resistive paths between
reasonably close adjacent conductors. CBers though it was hot shit for
weatherproofing coax connectors exposed to the elements when it first
became commercially available. 6 months or so later, they'd start
getting lousy SWR problems. Upon opening the connections, they'd find
white crap all over the interior of the connector bodies.
There is a special version of silicone sealant/gasket replacement sold
in automotive parts places (Permatex is one brand) that does work, it's
orange and says "safe for oxygen sensors".
spodosaurus
Attaching electrodes to your genitals again?
--
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Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
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GregS
There is also "blue", which I had recommended buying for safe
gas free use. It was a lot cheaper than other brands.
I have some white, most common, and I also have some black, these
from another manufacturer.
Never saw or had any problems of regular silicone 1 rtv.
I even tested it on a shiny copper board. No problems.
After a few hours any acedic gas is long gone after a short
time. I hear this corrosion guess all the time.
I have read many silicome reports and the one that said
rtv is microporous is OK with me. How else is the gas
going to escape. Long term use on my truck bolts,
confirmed rusting problems. It also requires moisture to firm up. It can
absorb humidity and cause corrosion after years. it also
can absorb and change colors after years.
I have used rtv on HV before it dried with no problem.
As far as Shoo glue ot Plummers Goop, they are my favorite for firm
holding, still with a little flexibility. Forget about taking it off.
Polyurathane is great for a firmer hold and stiffnes compared to rtv, but
it has problems with certain things. Takes a long time to cure.
greg
Skybuck Flying
http://www.biosafe-inc.com/_tds/e6000_tds.pdf
It also says it's good for glueing stuff together that vibrates.
It also says it has dielectric strength 400v/mil ?
So I guess that means it is resistent against electric voltages/currents...
but for how long ?
Hmmmm.
Bye,
Skybuck.
Skybuck Flying
and all that...
It also seems to have some water resistence...
It does mention some hazardness:
perchloroethylene
No idea what that is... could it cause cancer ? ;)
Hmm
This link does have some slightly distrubing information:
http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/f_perchl.txt
"
Breathing perchloroethylene over longer periods of time can cause
liver and kidney damage in humans. Workers exposed repeatedly to large
amounts of PERC in air can also experience memory loss and confusion.
Laboratory studies show that PERC causes kidney and liver damage and cancer
in animals exposed repeatedly by inhalation and by mouth. Repeat exposure
to large amounts of PERC in air may likewise cause cancer in humans.
"
But maybe this is only for high dosis ?
Bye,
Skybuck.
"Skybuck Flying" <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Skybuck Flying
The GigaWorks S750 has components which says: "400v" on it.
So it seems this glue is barrely enough to withstand it.
Example of such 400v components (see the little blue one):
http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/DeadGigaWorksS750/WhenGlueGoesBad/WhenGlueGoesBad.htm
(Picture2)
Bye,
Skybuck.
Dave Platt
Skybuck Flying <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Actually now I am getting doubts.
>
>The GigaWorks S750 has components which says: "400v" on it.
>
>So it seems this glue is barrely enough to withstand it.
The glue's voltage rating is 400 volts per mil. That is, every
one-thousandth of an inch of glue can "stand off" 400 volts. The
thicker the glue, the greater the voltage which can be withstood.
[I'd suggest that the fact that you weren't aware that insulation
resistances are given in volts-per-thickness, rather than just volts,
means that you have rather too little experience and basic
understanding to be messing around inside appliances and computers
that have high voltages present... but I don't suppose you'd listen.]
--
Dave Platt <dpl...@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Skybuck Flying
"Dave Platt" <dpl...@radagast.org> wrote in message
news:uf5ee6-...@radagast.org...
> In article <73b80$4a145ff0$d5337e4d$28...@cache3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
> Skybuck Flying <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually now I am getting doubts.
>>
>>The GigaWorks S750 has components which says: "400v" on it.
>>
>>So it seems this glue is barrely enough to withstand it.
>
> The glue's voltage rating is 400 volts per mil. That is, every
> one-thousandth of an inch of glue can "stand off" 400 volts. The
> thicker the glue, the greater the voltage which can be withstood.
Suppose the thickness of the glue is one inch and it's under 400 volts
during 8 hours a day.
How long would it take before the glue becomes fully conductive ?
Bye,
Skybuck.
Dave Platt
Skybuck Flying <Blood...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The glue's voltage rating is 400 volts per mil. That is, every
>> one-thousandth of an inch of glue can "stand off" 400 volts. The
>> thicker the glue, the greater the voltage which can be withstood.
>
>Suppose the thickness of the glue is one inch and it's under 400 volts
>during 8 hours a day.
>
>How long would it take before the glue becomes fully conductive ?
Pick one or more of the following answers.
[1] That's a silly question. Nobody in their right mind would ever
bother to use a 1-inch layer of this glue in that way.
[2] Never. "Fully conductive" implies perfect conductivity (zero
resistance) and there's no evidence at all that this sort of
synthetic rubber ever develops superconductivity under any
conditions whatsoever.
[3] Immediately. "Fully conductive" means "as conductive as it will
become", and this sort of rubber's conductivity doesn't change
significantly as it cures.
[4] Irrelevant. The voltage rating of a 1-inch layer is (in theory)
400,000 volts. This is higher than the breakdown voltage that you
would be likely to sustain over surface of the block, which is in
contact with air (and the humidity in the air), dirt, finger
grease, pollen, spider webs, and other local contaminants. Thus,
the resistance behavior of the *system* isn't limited by the
rubber itself, but by the system it's installed in.
[5] Impossible to determine. The rubber's bulk resistivity will
change over time, as the rubber is degraded by environmental
factors. In particular, it can be broken down by ultraviolet
light, and once broken down it could probably start absorbing some
amount of moisture from the air, and its insulation properties
will be reduced. The time-to-failure will depend on the operating
environment - if kept in a dark dry place it'd last quite a bit
longer than if kept outdoors in the Amazon. The information
given at http://tinyurl.com/ykp97m explains at least one of these
effects.
[6] Longer than your lifetime.
Paul
Skybuck, tnere is an easier answer.
If you remove the subwoofer speaker from the cabinet, then build
an identical (tuned port or whatever) wooden cabinet, and move
the subwoofer over to that, the remaining amplifier components
will no longer be in a noisy, vibration prone environment.
As a result, you will no longer need to pour glue all over
the amplifier components.
Paul
JosephKK
The versions that produced acetic acid went off market over 20 years
ago in favor of thixotropic varieties. I remember thinking much like
the CBers 40 years ago as a teen. Come up the years.
SteveH
Workers exposed repeatedly to
> large amounts of PERC in air can also experience memory loss and
> confusion.
Shit, you must have inhaled loads of it then.
--
SteveH
Michael A. Terrell
They did his lobotomy with a melon baller. it took over a dozen
tries to do it, just right.