Good contact and potmeter cleaners?

[Joerg]

This weekend I retrieved an old shortwave receiver from a closet to put
back into use. Needless to say the volume potmeter crackled like crazy
and the pre-selector switch was and still is erratic. My trusty old
"Kontakt 600" spray can blew its top while treating the potmeter,
spraying everywhere but in nozzle direction.

http://www.dact.com/Tuner_600_data_sheet.pdf

While it is now manufactured by CRC it seems not to be sold in the US.
Farnell in Europe carries it but their partner network Newark does not.
This stuff is really good. Or was :-(

I know Fader Lube is suitable for potmeters but what is good as a
contact cleaner that will not harm, etch, corrode or otherwise impair
contacts later?

While we are at it, I see that Fader Lube now comes in green, yellow and
pink flavors. Which is best for potmeters or does it not matter all that
much?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[jurb...@gmail.com]

I've found LPS2 to be very effective. It leaves an oil residue which I usually clean off the exposed surfaces at least. It never become conductive but if dust sticks to it the dust might be conductive.

It also lubes the shaft. It has some component that are volatile but have such a low viscosity that you can literally shoot it on the front at the shaft and bushing and it will penetrate and clean the pot. However that is messy and wasteful, and the shit is not cheap.

Going in from the front works sometimes because when you clean a pot you are actually cleaning the ring to on which the center part of the wiper slides, not the resistive element around the perimeter. Usually.

On some pots that are tough jobs it helps to push on the shaft while turning. If it has a thrust washer that can collapse it increases the pressure and facilitates better cleaning.

People say WD-40 is the same but it is not, LPS2 is used in the aerospace industry for maintaining jets and whatever. One thing about it is it has a very unique odor that sticks around for some time.

Best price I found on it was at Zoro.com. I don't know if they ship internationally. Not to discourage you from them, they are suspect in sending me bedbugs which were hell to get rid of, so get rid of the packaging right away just in case. IF I order from them again I will unpack the order outside. but the price was very good on that. I don't really know about anything else they sell, I needed the LPS and got it.

There is a very good product here called Deoxit which is good if the problem is oxidation, which it is many times. However it is so expensive it warrants taking the pot apart and using a Qtip to apply. Caig either makes it or distributes it along with actual cleaners, all not on the cheap, but good. I don't know if anyone ships you your location though.

[Carl Ijames]

"Joerg" wrote in message news:fkp11i...@mid.individual.net...

==================================================================

According to the MSDS at
https://www.buerklin.com/medias/sys_master/download/download/hcc/h65/8893264003102/safety-data-sheet-kontakt-chemie-71809-ab-en-20160314.pdf
it is a mix of pentane and hydrotreated light naptha, with CO2 as the
propellant. No magic ingredients, just basic fully saturated volatile
hydrocarbons. The CRC product QD clean (something like that :-)) is
similar, with some added hexanes and octanes and HFC-152a as the propellant
instead of CO2 so as Jeff would say, my guess (tm) is that is would work
just as well and evaporate very slightly slower.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

[David Eather]

On Tue, 01 May 2018 03:11:50 +1000, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Chemtools made in US

Deox-it D5 spray or Deox R44 (R44 is also a lube)
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Joerg]

On 2018-04-30 13:48, Carl Ijames wrote:
> According to the MSDS at
> https://www.buerklin.com/medias/sys_master/download/download/hcc/h65/8893264003102/safety-data-sheet-kontakt-chemie-71809-ab-en-20160314.pdf
> it is a mix of pentane and hydrotreated light naptha, with CO2 as the
> propellant. No magic ingredients, just basic fully saturated volatile
> hydrocarbons. The CRC product QD clean (something like that :-)) is
> similar, with some added hexanes and octanes and HFC-152a as the propellant
> instead of CO2 so as Jeff would say, my guess (tm) is that is would work
> just as well and evaporate very slightly slower.

Carl's post:

According to the MSDS at
https://www.buerklin.com/medias/sys_master/download/download/hcc/h65/8893264003102/safety-data-sheet-kontakt-chemie-71809-ab-en-20160314.pdf

it is a mix of pentane and hydrotreated light naptha, with CO2 as the
propellant. No magic ingredients, just basic fully saturated volatile
hydrocarbons. The CRC product QD clean (something like that :-)) is
similar, with some added hexanes and octanes and HFC-152a as the propellant
instead of CO2 so as Jeff would say, my guess (tm) is that is would work
just as well and evaporate very slightly slower.

Joerg:

Thanks but at $49 per can that's a bit steep. Someone must be making a
huge profit.

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/tools/chemicals-cleaners/260?k=QD%20Clean


BTW, it would be better to post above the sig line of people, else you
text won't show up in replies. Normall a newsreader should not even show
anything below "-- ".

[Joerg]

On 2018-04-30 13:49, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> I've found LPS2 to be very effective. It leaves an oil residue which
> I usually clean off the exposed surfaces at least. It never become
> conductive but if dust sticks to it the dust might be conductive.
>
> It also lubes the shaft. It has some component that are volatile but
> have such a low viscosity that you can literally shoot it on the
> front at the shaft and bushing and it will penetrate and clean the
> pot. However that is messy and wasteful, and the shit is not cheap.
>

It is marketed purely as a lubricant though.

https://www.jdindustrialsupply.com/lps-2-lubricant.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0r2Nkfrk2gIVGL3sCh0tHAVQEAAYAyAAEgIoHvD_BwE

Will it really fix heavily scratchy potmeters where the wire contact has
become erratic?

> Going in from the front works sometimes because when you clean a pot
> you are actually cleaning the ring to on which the center part of the
> wiper slides, not the resistive element around the perimeter.
> Usually.
>
> On some pots that are tough jobs it helps to push on the shaft while
> turning. If it has a thrust washer that can collapse it increases the
> pressure and facilitates better cleaning.
>
> People say WD-40 is the same but it is not, LPS2 is used in the
> aerospace industry for maintaining jets and whatever. One thing about
> it is it has a very unique odor that sticks around for some time.
>

I'd never used WD-40 on that, just as I don't on my bicycles.

> Best price I found on it was at Zoro.com. I don't know if they ship
> internationally. Not to discourage you from them, they are suspect in
> sending me bedbugs which were hell to get rid of, so get rid of the
> packaging right away just in case. IF I order from them again I will
> unpack the order outside. but the price was very good on that. I
> don't really know about anything else they sell, I needed the LPS and
> got it.
>
> There is a very good product here called Deoxit which is good if the
> problem is oxidation, which it is many times. However it is so
> expensive it warrants taking the pot apart and using a Qtip to apply.

There often is no way to take them apart, like when they are consisting
of plastic shells glued or melted together.

> Caig either makes it or distributes it along with actual cleaners,
> all not on the cheap, but good. I don't know if anyone ships you your
> location though.
>

[Joerg]

I could find R44 only from Australian sources.

http://www.chemtools.com.au/product/aerosols/lubrication-corrosion-prevention/deox-r44-thick-film-lubricant/


D5 is sold in the US. $15.70 for a tiny 5oz can is steep but ok.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006LVEU/

Caig's web site seems busted, end in domain not found or unavailable.

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.1809/KB.218/.f

So ... I just ordered a can of DeoxIt D5 from Sweetwater. On the web
there were reports from people having used it successfully also on
rotary signal switches. Let's see. Thanks, guys.

[Terry Newton]

I use this stuff (or similar) for pots...

https://www.amazon.com/Max-Professional-4125-Electronics-Lubricant/dp/
B0030MPJ8S

...basically just mineral oil in a can with propellant.
Makes a mess but generally it's a safe mess, never had a
compatibility problem with it.

Deoxit is good for switches and contacts, and control pots in
a pinch but tends to leave the control feeling "sticky", and
definitely don't use on conductive plastic.

Terry

[Joerg]

Sticky isn't so bad and if it bugs me I could always spray in some
silicone lube in addition. Main thing is that it fixes wiper crackling
and errativ rotary or multi-contact pushbutton switches as they are
found in older radios and lab gear. Small signal relays are also a pain
and I am hoping to be able to drill a wee hole, spritz, seal. Unless I
can somehow pry off the plastic cap.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Will it really fix heavily scratchy potmeters where the wire contact has become erratic? "

Barring mechanical problems it seems to fix everything. (well kinda)

I have had very good luck with it. However that is for dirt etc. I do not believe it has a reducer in it like Caig deoxit. It may be that the solvents clean the oxidation off rather than reversing it.

I guess it depends on what you're dealing with. You might want LPS2 and solvent around for normal use and some deoxit for those times it doesn't work. Though as I said, around here anyway, deoxit is expensive so I, and where I worked generally took the switch apart and applied it with a Qtip. Bad enough to see the price, whe you see the itty bitty can then it really sinks in. On top of the cost it is not good to run out. So we treat it like good cocaine.

[Joerg]

I don't use drugs so I can't relate :-)

Though yes, the tiny can is expensive but I ordered the DeoxIt D5
anyhow. My last can of Tuner 600 wasn't much larger and lasted decades.
All you typically need is a 1-2sec spritz.

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 12:28:03 PM UTC-7, Terry Newton wrote:

> Deoxit is good for switches and contacts, and control pots in
> a pinch but tends to leave the control feeling "sticky", and
> definitely don't use on conductive plastic.

Nnot sure why the conductive plastic is a problem: DeOxit spray
hasn't hurt the remote control keypads I've used it on (both the
conductive rubber and the screen-printed "wiring").

It leaves practically no residue, unless there was something
there that dissolved but wasn't washed away.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Wed, 02 May 2018 07:13:10 -0700, Joerg wrote:

> Though yes, the tiny can is expensive but I ordered the DeoxIt D5
> anyhow. My last can of Tuner 600 wasn't much larger and lasted decades.
> All you typically need is a 1-2sec spritz.

The biggest PITA by far IMO is actually getting the stuff inside onto the
potentiometer track. They seem to be so well sealed in. Crazy. :(




--
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[Joerg]

On 2018-05-03 13:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Wed, 02 May 2018 07:13:10 -0700, Joerg wrote:
>
>> Though yes, the tiny can is expensive but I ordered the DeoxIt D5
>> anyhow. My last can of Tuner 600 wasn't much larger and lasted decades.
>> All you typically need is a 1-2sec spritz.
>
> The biggest PITA by far IMO is actually getting the stuff inside onto the
> potentiometer track. They seem to be so well sealed in. Crazy. :(
>

So far I always managed to do that. I have no qualms about lifting stuff
with the swiss army knife, putting a wee crack in there using a vise or
drilling a small hole. After all, a crackling potmeter is useless so why
not try?

[Cursitor Doom]

On Thu, 03 May 2018 13:20:05 -0700, Joerg wrote:

> So far I always managed to do that. I have no qualms about lifting stuff
> with the swiss army knife, putting a wee crack in there using a vise or
> drilling a small hole. After all, a crackling potmeter is useless so why
> not try?

So what do you do if the pot that needs drilling is so deep in between
other boards that you can't get anywhere near it? Oh yeah, you say, like
just take the other boards out of the way.
Like fuck!

[George Herold]

Joerg, just lurking here. For my old tractor I spray in WD-40..
Well, first I poke out the mud wasp nest with a screw driver. :^)
There's a bottle (2 fl oz, 1.5 left) of GC electronics
DE-'OX'-ID
electronic contact cleaner, in my tool box,
it hasn't been opened in ~20 years.
I'd be happy to put it in the mail.

George H.

[Joerg]

Thanks, George, but I just received the DeoxIt D5S-6 today. The can
isn't smaller than my old Kontakt 600 can which lasted over 20 years
until the nozzle mechanism failed, probably corroded inside. So I should
be set for the next 20 years. Sweetwater added in some candy. That was a
very nice touch.

[Clifford Heath]

On 04/05/18 09:36, George Herold wrote:
> On Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 4:19:25 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2018-05-03 13:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 May 2018 07:13:10 -0700, Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Though yes, the tiny can is expensive but I ordered the DeoxIt D5
>>>> anyhow. My last can of Tuner 600 wasn't much larger and lasted decades.
>>>> All you typically need is a 1-2sec spritz.
>>>
>>> The biggest PITA by far IMO is actually getting the stuff inside onto the
>>> potentiometer track. They seem to be so well sealed in. Crazy. :(
>>>
>>
>> So far I always managed to do that. I have no qualms about lifting stuff
>> with the swiss army knife, putting a wee crack in there using a vise or
>> drilling a small hole. After all, a crackling potmeter is useless so why
>> not try?
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
> Joerg, just lurking here. For my old tractor I spray in WD-40..

+1. WD-40 shuts up noisy pots, instantly.

[George Herold]

WD-40, duct tape, and channel lock pliers,
what else does a man need?

George H.

[Clifford Heath]

Wire. You can never have enough (kinds of) wire.

[k...@notreal.com]

If it moves you duct-tape it.
If it squeaks you WD40 it.
If it's stuck you hit it with a hammer.

[jack...@gmail.com]

Il giorno venerdì 4 maggio 2018 02:28:04 UTC+2, George Herold ha scritto:

> WD-40, duct tape, and channel lock pliers,
> what else does a man need?

swiss army knife.

Bye Jack

[Rheilly Phoull]

Lets not forget the silicone sealant :-)

[Joerg]

Bailing wire, a credit card and beer :-)

Also, as Jack wrote, I won't go anywhere without my Swiss Army knife
except when the journey requires a TSA check or similar.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"Nnot sure why the conductive plastic is a problem: "

Not so much a problem per se, but not as intended. Deoxit is a reducer which means it removes the oxygen which has gotten in by oxidation. Plastic does not oxidize so if it cleans it it is only due to its solvent type properties. That would be a waste at what it costs.

Actually there will be a conductor to connect the wiper to its pin, that would be metal which will oxidize and is usually what actually needs the cleaning, or deoxidizing that is. So if applying with a Qtip or whatever for precise control, apply it to the metal parts, not the plastic.

there is a certain type of soft nylon that responds badly to damn near everything. It gets sticky actually. These are usually sliders pots, not rotary. They are used in my Soundcraftsman PE2217 equalizer/preamp. I have also run across them in other consumer equipment over the years. the controls have a nice "feel" to them when they are new, but they are very vulnerable to just about everything, including LPS.

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"WD-40, duct tape, and channel lock pliers,
what else does a man need? "

Metal coat hangers.

[Joerg]

On 2018-05-04 13:09, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "Nnot sure why the conductive plastic is a problem:"
>
> Not so much a problem per se, but not as intended. Deoxit is a
> reducer which means it removes the oxygen which has gotten in by
> oxidation. Plastic does not oxidize so if it cleans it it is only due
> to its solvent type properties. That would be a waste at what it
> costs.
>

A little waste is ok for most of us. My last can of Kontakt 600 in
similar size lasted over 25 years and still has about half left in it.
Its spritz mechnism failed, I guess it corroded inside and something
broke so now it hisses off in all directions.

> Actually there will be a conductor to connect the wiper to its pin,
> that would be metal which will oxidize and is usually what actually
> needs the cleaning, or deoxidizing that is. So if applying with a
> Qtip or whatever for precise control, apply it to the metal parts,
> not the plastic.
>
> there is a certain type of soft nylon that responds badly to damn
> near everything. It gets sticky actually. These are usually sliders
> pots, not rotary. They are used in my Soundcraftsman PE2217
> equalizer/preamp. I have also run across them in other consumer
> equipment over the years. the controls have a nice "feel" to them
> when they are new, but they are very vulnerable to just about
> everything, including LPS.
>

On the package of the DeoxIt D5S-6 it says "will not harm plastics",
whatever that means.

[k...@notreal.com]

I think you misspelled "implant". ;-)

[George Herold]

I did unfortunately loose my Swiss army knife to TSA,
Well, I left it on top of the nearest garbage can once
I realized it was still in my pocket at some airport.
I hope some kid found it.

I've got an original leather man which I love.
It's a nice size and has needle nose pliers w/ wire cutters.
I was going to say they don't make it anymore...
and then I found you can now buy one for $200.
(ouch way too long a link, search 'original leather man',
REI has them for $199.)

With good stuff the price increases with time.

George H.

[Steve Wilson]

George Herold <ghe...@teachspin.com> wrote:

> (ouch way too long a link, search 'original leather man',

see https://tinyurl.com/

> George H.

[George Herold]

Right, I'm just lazy.
GH

[Steve Wilson]

That happens, perhaps too often.

How's your health. Electronics can be so fascinating that it can trap you
into a sedentary life. You get no exercise and your health slowly
deteoriates.

Some people recommend walking a mile a day. You normally walk about 3 mph,
so a mile would be 20 minutes. Another 20 minutes for the return, and you
have spent 40 minutes. This gives you time to enjoy the scenery and work on
current problems. You arrive back home strengthened and refreshed and ready
to tackle the day's work.

JL loves skiing and has a cabin in Tahoe. Win likes rowing and competes on
the Charles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_River

Joerg brews beer and cycles long distances.

JT drinks too much, is overweight and will probably die soon.

Don't do what I did. I got totally absorbed in design and software. My
health gradually deteoriated, but I didn't notice it. I had a bike and used
to go 10 km from time to time, but I gradually stopped. Now, to my
amazement, I can no longer ride the bike, and I can only climb stairs one
step at a time. This is very bad. Canada has pretty bad winters which make
walking miserable. But spring is coming and soon I will be able to start
biking again. I hope to get my strength back so I can run up stairs again.

You need exercise. Neglecting your health is a very bad idea.

[whit3rd]

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-7, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> >"Nnot sure why the conductive plastic is a problem: "
>
> Not so much a problem per se, but not as intended. Deoxit is a reducer which means it removes the oxygen

That's probably just some marketing BS. Metal oxides don't just deoxidize, i takes
serious energy to do that (when smelting ore, for instance), not a smear of goo.
The 'deoxit' name covers cleaners and contact enhancers, and it's the contact
enhancer that makes it work better than WD-40.

The contact enhancer increases the conductive footprint area by leaving some
residue that has very low breakdown voltage (a liquid semiconductor). The
rhetoric on the label is just... a bunch of words to make the customer feel
for his wallet.

[Steve Wilson]

You don't need to convert the oxides back to base metal. All you need is to
remove the oxides from the surface of the contact.

Vaseline and mineral oil do an excellent job. They lift the oxides and dirt
and corrosion from the surface and leave a thin film that protects the
surface from further damage. When you close the contact, metal asperites
punch through the film and create a true metal-to-metal contact. This can
reduce the contact resistance by a factor of ten.

This is extremely useful on battery terminals, noisy telephone connections,
memory card connections, switches and other low-level contacts.

It doesn't work on high current contacts where sparking occurs. The arc
burns the film and coats the contact with a non-conductive film.

[k...@notreal.com]

+1

But a mile isn't enough. It should be an hour a day, preferably at
one time.

[Joerg]

And hopefully didn't commit an assault with it, after which they swab
off the DNA ...

> I've got an original leather man which I love.
> It's a nice size and has needle nose pliers w/ wire cutters.
> I was going to say they don't make it anymore...
> and then I found you can now buy one for $200.
> (ouch way too long a link, search 'original leather man',
> REI has them for $199.)
>
> With good stuff the price increases with time.
>

Sometimes not. I found that really good bicyclist multi-tools are still
in the $20-30 range. From companies such as Crankbrothers.

[Joerg]

However, if some chronic pain in the knees, hips or wherever has set in
consult the family physician first about which kind of activity is still
feasible without causing further damage. Usually bicycling and swimming
is encouraged.

Then, start or re-start slowly. My first bike rides after a 15+ year
hiatus, combined with significan weight gain, were short and tough. I
had to hop off the bike half way up a hill and walk, hills I'd have
laughed at in my youth. Hoping nobody saw that. Don't become discouraged
by that, keep plowing, it'll get better. Now I can ride 50mi or more
while keeping a good dose of power on the pedals without a problem. I
usually only turn around to be back in time for dinner. If I have all
day I ride all day.

Next, force yourself not to cave in to excuses like bad weather. Old
Frisian saying: There is no bad weather, just wrong clothing. And get a
bicycle with disc brakes, though on pavement I still use my old road
bike from 1982.

[Joerg]

My question is, does DeoxIt D5 provide enough of a lubricating film? On
the package it says "clean, protects, lubricates and improves conductivity".

[Steve Wilson]

Very little of the product provides lubrication.

The MSDS states the product is 40-70% Naptha, 10-30% Diflourethane, and
3-7% secret ingredient:

https://tinyurl.com/y8lx2usa

Naptha is a highly volatile liquid that removes most organic compounds. It
evaporates in seconds. I use a 50-50 combination of naptha and isoprop to
clean fingerprints from refrigerator door handles, cabinet doors and other
surfaces. It takes some rubbing with a sponge, but the dirt and
fingerprints eventually come off. Do not use it on painted surfaces. It
will remove the paint.

Diflourethane is a propellant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1-Difluoroethane

From forum discussions long ago, the secret ingredient is plain mineral
oil. You don't need an exorbitantly priced spray can to deliver it to the
contact.

For contacts, you don't need the naptha. It evaporates so quickly it
doesn't have a chance to do much.

Mineral oil and vaseline work the same way. They remove oxidation and dirt
and permit a true metal-to-metal contact that greatly reduces the contact
resistance. I have actually measured a 10:1 reduction.

Caig has produced numerous variations of DeoxIt with negligible differences
in the product, but with claims of how to choose the best one for different
applications. The products are extremely expensive for the actual contents.
The marketing is mainly hype.

[Joerg]

Yeah, I know I could make it myself much cheaper but for me only the
convenience matters. Judging by the previous can of Tuner 600 which
lasted me 25 years and still isn't empty the 14 bucks I just spent on
teh DeoxIt will serve me until I put my teeth in a jar. I just need to
know whether I have to spritz in an additional lube and from what you
wrote above it seems that I do. What would be appropriate that is low
cost and off-the-shelf in a spray can? TriFlow maybe?

[Steve Wilson]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I know I could make it myself much cheaper but for me only the
> convenience matters. Judging by the previous can of Tuner 600 which
> lasted me 25 years and still isn't empty the 14 bucks I just spent on
> teh DeoxIt will serve me until I put my teeth in a jar. I just need to
> know whether I have to spritz in an additional lube and from what you
> wrote above it seems that I do. What would be appropriate that is low
> cost and off-the-shelf in a spray can? TriFlow maybe?

According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

You could get a small spray bottle from a dollar store, add a bit of mineral
oil and methyl hydrate, and accomplish the same thing.

Note: methyl hydrate and methanol are the same thing. Available in hardware
stores very cheap.

The idea is not really how inexpensive this is. It is something you can make
on a saturday night when you need it. Works just as good as anything you can
buy.

[Joerg]

On 2018-05-05 12:54, Steve Wilson wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I know I could make it myself much cheaper but for me only the
>> convenience matters. Judging by the previous can of Tuner 600 which
>> lasted me 25 years and still isn't empty the 14 bucks I just spent on
>> teh DeoxIt will serve me until I put my teeth in a jar. I just need to
>> know whether I have to spritz in an additional lube and from what you
>> wrote above it seems that I do. What would be appropriate that is low
>> cost and off-the-shelf in a spray can? TriFlow maybe?
>
> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:

Maybe but it works a whole lot better than any other oil. If I lube a
lock with it that lock remains workable for five years or more. Other
similar mineral oil lubes last only a year.


> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew
>

These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.

> You could get a small spray bottle from a dollar store, add a bit of mineral
> oil and methyl hydrate, and accomplish the same thing.
>

I prefer something with a fine nozzle and a thin tube. I use a Dollar
store spritz bottle for my brewing (sanitation spritzes) but it isn't
suitable to squeeze a spray mist through a 1/16" drill hole.

> Note: methyl hydrate and methanol are the same thing. Available in hardware
> stores very cheap.
>
> The idea is not really how inexpensive this is. It is something you can make
> on a saturday night when you need it. Works just as good as anything you can
> buy.
>

But buying is faster :-)

[Steve Wilson]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> On 2018-05-05 12:54, Steve Wilson wrote:
>> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:

> Maybe but it works a whole lot better than any other oil. If I lube a
> lock with it that lock remains workable for five years or more. Other
> similar mineral oil lubes last only a year.

Yes, mineral oil is not very good on outdoor locks.

Perhaps a better penetrating oil for locks is a 50-50 mixture of acetone
and automatic transmission fluid. Works great on outdoor locks exposed to
all the miserable winter weather here in Canada.

>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

> These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.

That is very bad news. How about

www.shorturl.at/mzCV0

or

https://go.shell.com/2wd6jd6

or

https://is.gd/XNsx5T

>> The idea is not really how inexpensive this is. It is something you can
>> make on a saturday night when you need it. Works just as good as
>> anything you can buy.

> But buying is faster :-)

Slower. You have to wait for delivery. Usually not available on weekends
when you really need it.

Of course, I have a shelf full of WD-40, Deep Creep, Honey Goo, Silicon
sprays, and a bunch of other spray cans. Deep Creep is good for automotive
ignition locks, and silicon sprays are great to lubricate your seat belts
and make them super flexible so they go back in the retainer easily.

[Joerg]

On 2018-05-05 13:48, Steve Wilson wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-05-05 12:54, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
>
>> Maybe but it works a whole lot better than any other oil. If I lube a
>> lock with it that lock remains workable for five years or more. Other
>> similar mineral oil lubes last only a year.
>
> Yes, mineral oil is not very good on outdoor locks.
>
> Perhaps a better penetrating oil for locks is a 50-50 mixture of acetone
> and automatic transmission fluid. Works great on outdoor locks exposed to
> all the miserable winter weather here in Canada.
>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew
>
>> These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.
>
> That is very bad news. How about
>
> www.shorturl.at/mzCV0
>

Works, but only after I copy and paste this short URL again into a
search windows there. Why not post ... the real URL?

> or
>
> https://go.shell.com/2wd6jd6
>
> or
>
> https://is.gd/XNsx5T
>
>>> The idea is not really how inexpensive this is. It is something you can
>>> make on a saturday night when you need it. Works just as good as
>>> anything you can buy.
>
>> But buying is faster :-)
>
> Slower. You have to wait for delivery. Usually not available on weekends
> when you really need it.
>

Well, those cans usually last me decades so I sure can get over that. I
bet a lube spray can be picked up easily at the HW-store while there for
other reasons. I just need to which one is good for potmeter lubing
after treatment with DeoxIt. It wouldn't be good to repair a potmeter so
it won't crackle only to have it commit a slow suicide afterwards.

Strange thing is, in one video they show how DeoxIt is also used at the
knob end of the shaft, to lube a recalcitrant shaft.

> Of course, I have a shelf full of WD-40, Deep Creep, Honey Goo, Silicon
> sprays, and a bunch of other spray cans. Deep Creep is good for automotive
> ignition locks, and silicon sprays are great to lubricate your seat belts
> and make them super flexible so they go back in the retainer easily.
>

I use silicone spray to lube my hedge trimmer. Just came back from this
favorite Saturday honey-do job. Got to keep the missus happy.

[Rheilly Phoull]

The old "instant abs" trick !

[Steve Wilson]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> On 2018-05-05 13:48, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

>>> These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.

>> That is very bad news. How about

>> www.shorturl.at/mzCV0

> Works, but only after I copy and paste this short URL again into a
> search windows there. Why not post ... the real URL?

https://www.shell.com/business-customers/lubricants-for-
business/lubricants-product-stewardship/
_jcr_content/par/textimage.stream/1453207331826/bd90be16d09be2fc0a93ce3a1ad
59247d7c615fc8aff34518ffe3fb95b281808/product-stewardship-lubes-
distillates-petroleum-hydrotreated-heavy-naphthenic.pdf

I don't know why they create a string long enough to account for every
electron in the universe.

What browser are you using? Your posting header says

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6)
Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666

Gecko and Thunderbird are both Mozilla, so I assume you are using Firefox.
But it doesn't say what version. I can't believe these url shorteners are
giving so much trouble, but I'm wondering if I should abandon them. But no
one else has mentioned having any problems, and they are certainly widely
used. They do make it much more convenient to use and save than the entire
string.

Have you had any problems with other shortened urls?

[jurb...@gmail.com]

>"That's probably just some marketing BS. Metal oxides don't just deoxidize, i takes serious energy to do that (when smelting ore, for instance), not a smear of goo. "

Only partly right. Usually it takes energy but a reducer will work on thin tarnish type surfaces. Have you ever seen it work ? When you take your Qtip across the conductive stuff it is not wiping anything off, you can watch the color change where you just wiped, actually applied the chemical. It is similar to TarnX they used to sell on TV. It is not taking anything off. Solvents don't matter to the oxide, only to whatever may have been deposited by the atmosphere or whoknowswhat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reducing_agent has a half decent simplified page on it, then they go into the organic. It is a chemical reaction wherein the O2 combines with some electrons or something. I don't know enough chemistry to go into alot of detail but I know what it is. It is not a cleaner, if any of the propellant or other additives do actually clean, it is purely coincidental. (well it could be)

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sat, 05 May 2018 07:46:59 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Absolutely. However, these forms of exercise don't help the skeleton
(obviously). My endocrinologist said that walking was the perfect
exercise (I fractured my pelvis last year - no idea how).

>Then, start or re-start slowly. My first bike rides after a 15+ year
>hiatus, combined with significan weight gain, were short and tough. I
>had to hop off the bike half way up a hill and walk, hills I'd have
>laughed at in my youth. Hoping nobody saw that. Don't become discouraged
>by that, keep plowing, it'll get better. Now I can ride 50mi or more
>while keeping a good dose of power on the pedals without a problem. I
>usually only turn around to be back in time for dinner. If I have all
>day I ride all day.

Sure. Do what you can and challenge yourself to do more. I didn't
start until I had my CABG in '14. My cardiologist sent me for 12
weeks of rehab, 3 days a week. That taught me that I could do it and
after, I joined a gym. I've had a few setbacks (other the above
pelvis fracture, surgery, and even vacations;) but I walk about
15-17mi/day now, 6-7 on a treadmill. Amazingly, feet feel a lot
better (arthritis).

>Next, force yourself not to cave in to excuses like bad weather. Old
>Frisian saying: There is no bad weather, just wrong clothing. And get a
>bicycle with disc brakes, though on pavement I still use my old road
>bike from 1982.

I just walk inside where there is heat/AC. ;-)

[Steve Wilson]

Steve Wilson <n...@spam.com> wrote:

> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

[...]

Never mind. I found the solution. Tinyurl has a preview option that shows the
full url. So you can copy and paste it into your browser as needed. Here's
what it looks like:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 12:54:29 PM UTC-7, Steve Wilson wrote:

> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

Well, yeah, but the first S is for SAFETY, that MSDS gives safety data NOT
application-useful information. The suspended PTFE beads in TriFlow make
their home in every crevice and rusty part of a bike chain, and keep it smooth
flexing in spite of rain and slush. Mineral oil doesn't do that, I've tried it.

There seems to be a subculture in technology, trying to obscure all data
going out, that makes the worst hash out of data in MSDS forms.

The MSDS for Liquid Nails, for instance, doesn't mention any sticky components at all.
It does contain alcohol and limestone, though... gee, I feel safer already.

[Steve Wilson]

whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 12:54:29 PM UTC-7, Steve Wilson wrote:

>> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew

> Well, yeah, but the first S is for SAFETY, that MSDS gives safety data
> NOT application-useful information. The suspended PTFE beads in
> TriFlow make their home in every crevice and rusty part of a bike chain,
> and keep it smooth flexing in spite of rain and slush. Mineral oil
> doesn't do that, I've tried it.

TriFlow is for electrical contacts. What purpose does teflon serve in an
electrical contact?

Mineral oil was recommended for the 25 hr breakin period on my Piper Malibu,
but I would not use it on bicycle chains. That is a completely different
problem.

There are dedicated lubricants for bicycle chains. Ask Joerg.

[Joerg]

Have you ever ridden a mountain bike, hard?

Yesterday I had to re-tighten the rear suspension of mine again because
it shook loose during the last ride.

> My endocrinologist said that walking was the perfect
> exercise (I fractured my pelvis last year - no idea how).
>

Ok, but here we were talking about general fitness. Bone health requires
"impact activities" sich as soccer, tennis, jogging and even then you
only train some, not all.

>> Then, start or re-start slowly. My first bike rides after a 15+ year
>> hiatus, combined with significan weight gain, were short and tough. I
>> had to hop off the bike half way up a hill and walk, hills I'd have
>> laughed at in my youth. Hoping nobody saw that. Don't become discouraged
>> by that, keep plowing, it'll get better. Now I can ride 50mi or more
>> while keeping a good dose of power on the pedals without a problem. I
>> usually only turn around to be back in time for dinner. If I have all
>> day I ride all day.
>
> Sure. Do what you can and challenge yourself to do more. I didn't
> start until I had my CABG in '14. My cardiologist sent me for 12
> weeks of rehab, 3 days a week. That taught me that I could do it and
> after, I joined a gym. I've had a few setbacks (other the above
> pelvis fracture, surgery, and even vacations;) but I walk about
> 15-17mi/day now, 6-7 on a treadmill. Amazingly, feet feel a lot
> better (arthritis).
>

Excellent, 15mi a day puts you in the upper 1% of Americans on the
healthy activity scale.

>> Next, force yourself not to cave in to excuses like bad weather. Old
>> Frisian saying: There is no bad weather, just wrong clothing. And get a
>> bicycle with disc brakes, though on pavement I still use my old road
>> bike from 1982.
>
> I just walk inside where there is heat/AC. ;-)
>

Doing it outside helps you in other ways. For example, you'd soon
discover that you get sick way less than before. I hardly ever get sick
despite not taking flu shots. Not counting the occasional poison oak
rashes when I saw that stuff too late during a ride (partially color-blind).

[Joerg]

On 2018-05-05 17:11, Steve Wilson wrote:
> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-05-05 13:48, Steve Wilson wrote:
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew
>
>>>> These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.
>
>>> That is very bad news. How about
>
>>> www.shorturl.at/mzCV0
>
>> Works, but only after I copy and paste this short URL again into a
>> search windows there. Why not post ... the real URL?
>
> https://www.shell.com/business-customers/lubricants-for-
> business/lubricants-product-stewardship/
> _jcr_content/par/textimage.stream/1453207331826/bd90be16d09be2fc0a93ce3a1ad
> 59247d7c615fc8aff34518ffe3fb95b281808/product-stewardship-lubes-
> distillates-petroleum-hydrotreated-heavy-naphthenic.pdf
>

Ah, that works instantly.

> I don't know why they create a string long enough to account for every
> electron in the universe.
>

Some companies aren't very organized when it comes to URLs.

> What browser are you using? Your posting header says
>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6)
> Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666
>

That header info is all wrong, no idea why it always is. For eample, NT
5.1 refers to XP yet I am using Windows 7. TB is version 25.4.0, last
know good for me.

> Gecko and Thunderbird are both Mozilla, so I assume you are using Firefox.
> But it doesn't say what version. I can't believe these url shorteners are
> giving so much trouble, but I'm wondering if I should abandon them. But no
> one else has mentioned having any problems, and they are certainly widely
> used. They do make it much more convenient to use and save than the entire
> string.
>
> Have you had any problems with other shortened urls?
>

Not the ones from Jim T. Otherwise I hardly ever encounter them and
never use them myself.

[Joerg]

This one works. Requires a 2nd click in the new windows though.

[Joerg]

On 2018-05-05 22:29, Steve Wilson wrote:
> whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, May 5, 2018 at 12:54:29 PM UTC-7, Steve Wilson wrote:
>
>>> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew
>
>> Well, yeah, but the first S is for SAFETY, that MSDS gives safety data
>> NOT application-useful information. The suspended PTFE beads in
>> TriFlow make their home in every crevice and rusty part of a bike chain,
>> and keep it smooth flexing in spite of rain and slush. Mineral oil
>> doesn't do that, I've tried it.
>
> TriFlow is for electrical contacts.

Huh?


> ... What purpose does teflon serve in an electrical contact?
>

TriFlow is marketed as a lubricant and it is an very good one at that.

> Mineral oil was recommended for the 25 hr breakin period on my Piper Malibu,
> but I would not use it on bicycle chains. That is a completely different
> problem.
>
> There are dedicated lubricants for bicycle chains. Ask Joerg.
>

I use White Lightning Epic Ride. It has waxy stuff in it which is needed
for protection. On the montain bike one lube lasts about 50mi, meaning
one ride. On the road bike it lasts 200-250mi, depending on where I
ride. Wear is faster when using roads instead of bike paths, most likely
because of all the pollutants from cars.

[Steve Wilson]

Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:

> On 2018-05-05 22:29, Steve Wilson wrote:

>> TriFlow is for electrical contacts.

> Huh?

Right. I guess I got that from previous posts in this thread.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sun, 06 May 2018 07:05:03 -0700, Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com>

Nope. Not even a desire.

>
>Yesterday I had to re-tighten the rear suspension of mine again because
>it shook loose during the last ride.

We're not talking about breaking bones, just putting a little stress
on them. Running isn't as good as walking because it causes damage,
rather than improving remodeling.

>> My endocrinologist said that walking was the perfect
>> exercise (I fractured my pelvis last year - no idea how).
>>
>
>Ok, but here we were talking about general fitness. Bone health requires
>"impact activities" sich as soccer, tennis, jogging and even then you
>only train some, not all.

Sure but your "general fitness" also destroys joints and bone. Walking
helps both, unless arthritis has already claimed the joint. In which
case, swimming is probably the best alternative.

I don't remember the last time I was actually "sick". My wife did get
bronchitis when I was in the hospital for the CABG and promptly gave
it to me the day after I got home (that was a sick to remember). Other
than that, it's gotta be over 20 years for anything more than
sniffles. I do get flu and pneumonia shots (high risk of severe
complications). I may even get a shingles vaccination this year,
since the new one is out.

[John S]

On 5/5/2018 3:15 PM, Joerg wrote:
> On 2018-05-05 12:54, Steve Wilson wrote:
>> Joerg <ne...@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I know I could make it myself much cheaper but for me only the
>>> convenience matters. Judging by the previous can of Tuner 600 which
>>> lasted me 25 years and still isn't empty the 14 bucks I just spent on
>>> teh DeoxIt will serve me until I put my teeth in a jar. I just need to
>>> know whether I have to spritz in an additional lube and from what you
>>> wrote above it seems that I do. What would be appropriate that is low
>>> cost and off-the-shelf in a spray can? TriFlow maybe?
>>
>> According to the MSDS, TriFlow is mainly refined mineral oil:
>
>
> Maybe but it works a whole lot better than any other oil. If I lube a
> lock with it that lock remains workable for five years or more. Other
> similar mineral oil lubes last only a year.
>
>
>> https://tinyurl.com/ycv57uew
>>
>
> These tiny URLs do not resolve here, they only result in a blank page.

FWIW, I had no problem with it. I also use Firefox and Thunderbird.