LTSpice

[OldGuy]

So does LTSpice or some other graphical spice support
Triacs
Unijunctions
PUTs
Diac
SCR

Where can I find simple models for these to use with LTSpice of some
free graphical spice?

Yes, I need unijuction and triac and etc support.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Jim Thompson]

SCR and TRIAC are in the symbol (*.asy) libraries. The others may
exist but I couldn't find them in a quick eyeball scan.

But you can draw your own symbols, and Spice models are easy enough to
find by surfing the web.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

[PeterGierschner]

>Am 10.09.2013 19:13, schrieb OldGuy:


By the way: there is a very well supported LTSpice-Group at yahoo!
ltspice-...@yahoogroups.com

peter

[RobertMacy]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:39:00 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-Th...@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:13:29 -0700, OldGuy <Old...@spamnot.com> wrote:
>
>> So does LTSpice or some other graphical spice support
>> Triacs
>> Unijunctions
>> PUTs
>> Diac
>> SCR
>>
>> Where can I find simple models for these to use with LTSpice of some
>> free graphical spice?
>>
>> Yes, I need unijuction and triac and etc support.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
>
> SCR and TRIAC are in the symbol (*.asy) libraries. The others may
> exist but I couldn't find them in a quick eyeball scan.
>
> But you can draw your own symbols, and Spice models are easy enough to
> find by surfing the web.
>
> ...Jim Thompson

Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models?

I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy
<robert...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:39:00 -0700, Jim Thompson
><To-Email-Use-Th...@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:13:29 -0700, OldGuy <Old...@spamnot.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So does LTSpice or some other graphical spice support
>>> Triacs
>>> Unijunctions
>>> PUTs
>>> Diac
>>> SCR
>>>
>>> Where can I find simple models for these to use with LTSpice of some
>>> free graphical spice?
>>>

>>> Yes, I need unijunction and triac and etc support.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
>>
>> SCR and TRIAC are in the symbol (*.asy) libraries. The others may
>> exist but I couldn't find them in a quick eyeball scan.
>>
>> But you can draw your own symbols, and Spice models are easy enough to
>> find by surfing the web.
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>
>Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models?
>
>I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse.

I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his
site?

As for models, I have 6.88 GB (227,943 files) of models, about 80%
foundry device-level stuff, the rest discrete components and
manufacturer's chip models ;-)

Unijunction transistors are in low usage. I don't know of a good
model.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 11:22:26 +0200, PeterGierschner <xacc...@gmx.net>
wrote:

Yep. Good group.

[RobertMacy]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-Th...@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy
> <robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> ..snip...

>>
>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models?
>>
>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse.
>
> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his
> site?
>

> ...snip...
>
> ...Jim Thompson

His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He
supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which
I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake!

LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how
many models are in there.
LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out
today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again!

[Jim Thompson]

Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record
of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-)

Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the
download to start :-(

[Jim Thompson]

Here you go...

<http://us.ua/1162032/>

Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:24:30 -0700, Jim Thompson

Wow! What a collection!

[RobertMacy]

On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:24:30 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-Th...@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:

>>>> ...snip....

>>> LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea
>>> how
>>> many models are in there.
>>> LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out
>>> today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again!
>>>
>>
>> Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record
>> of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-)
>>
>> Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the
>> download to start :-(
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
> Here you go...
>
> <http://us.ua/1162032/>
>
> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download.
>
> ...Jim Thompson

That's the SMALLEST one! Did you find the larger one?

[Simon S Aysdie]

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:58:06 AM UTC-7, Robert Macy wrote:

> That's the SMALLEST one! Did you find the larger one?

No. Do you have that link?

[Jim Thompson]

I didn't see the .DOC file. What does it have in it?

[hamilton]

Now if I can just download that cake !!

[Don Kuenz]

Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link.

http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits

--
Don Kuenz

[Jim Thompson]

Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder
which is real...

<http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf>

[Phil Hobbs]

Probably neither--this is SPICE we're talking about. ;0

I've used PUTs (2N6028) in laser interlocks, where I needed to be sure
that there wouldn't be any weird behaviour on power-up or with transients.

BTW kudos for working to pass stuff along to the next generation. Now
all you have to do is start writing for real.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

[Jim Thompson]

I suspect the MicroSim/Motorola/THYRYSTR.lib is pretty close. It's
certainly complex enough ;-)

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:40:34 -0700, Jim Thompson

After some more head-scratching, and dumping the ancient single
junction (Unijunction) device and looking only at the "PUT" (4-layer
device), the _only_ two transistor model makes sense...

*Programmable Unijunction Transistor pkg: TO-226AA, Don Kuenz
* .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 1 2 3
.SUBCKT 2N6027DK 2 1 3 ; B2 E B1
************** K1 G K2
Q1 2 4 3 NMOD
Q2 4 2 1 PMOD
.MODEL NMOD NPN(IS=5E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.85E-12 NE=1.45
+ RB=10 RE=0.5 RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75
TR=4.76E-8
+ TF=16N VJS=0.75 )
.MODEL PMOD PNP(IS=2E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.9E-12 RB=10 RE=0.5
+ RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 TF=1.6E-8 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 TR=5.1E-8
+ TF=16N VJS=0.75 )
.ENDS 2N6027DK

What caught my eye was unusually low IKF (50x smaller than a 2N2222)
for a discrete bipolar device... and unusually high ISE (10x that of a
2N2222).

My bet is I will be able to relate those parameters to peak, valley
and hold-off currents.

So a "PUT" amounts to a special case of an SCR structure

Fun stuff!.

[Phil Hobbs]

IIRC the gate is opposite polarity to an SCR, but then it's over 15
years since I used one.

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:50:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs

Exactly! I don't what they're good for in modern day electronics, but
it's been an amusing exercise in deciphering the Spice model.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:09:33 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson

Reverse breakdown rating of the gate-anode is also much higher in a
PUT compared to an SCR gate-cathode (eg. +40V vs. -5V)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

[Jim Thompson]

I gathered that from the IKF/ISE numbers.

[Don Kuenz]

In my case, the absence of UJT model gives me a decent excuse for
delving deeper into LTSpice. My UJT forms a relaxation oscillator in
hardware designed during the early 1970s. It's my understanding that the
relaxation oscillator was a classic UJT application for that era, but
others know best.

Thank you again Jim for sharing all of your Spice data both in this
thread and other threads. :)

--
Don Kuenz

[Don Kuenz]

None of the above accurately models the DC component when a 2N4870 is
used in the test circuit. The measured 2N4870 DC excursion is from about
-1V to about +0.25V (IIRC). The 2N2646 in THYRYSTR.LIB comes closest to
the AC component, except the observed peaks are much flatter, which
makes the waveform look like a pulse with about a 90% duty cycle.

Bordodynov keeps his 2N2646 in a file named Ujt&Put.lib. I may fiddle
with this obsolete technology a bit more for the sake of delving deeper
into SPICE modeling. Is the Common 2 Transistor Model worth describing?

--
Don Kuenz

[Jim Thompson]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 05:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz

The common two-transistor version models PUT's quite well,

I have to research the UJT curves and see if I can fit a parametric
equation.

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 22:34:08 -0700, Jim Thompson

But I did just check PS currents. Dandy match to load current _UNTIL_
railing, then bizarro... giga-amps >:-}

I think they don't check their modeling work there at Analog
Devices... just sling shit together. Studying their OpAmp models, it
appears to be just a fill-in-the-blanks netlist :-(